Author Topic: Six month post-retirement update and observations  (Read 37585 times)

markus

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Six month post-retirement update and observations
« on: March 23, 2024, 06:52:46 AM »
Hello all,

I've just passed my first six months since leaving my employer of many years, and I've been keeping track of general feelings and observations thus far so that I'd have something of substance to share here. I always enjoyed reading these kinds of updates from others as I was particularly curious of any surprises they may have experienced, things they wish they'd planned for and so forth. I might post another one of these after a year or more, and I expect those future updates will be shorter but more general and financial in nature as there'll have been more time for market fluctuations. So, on to the update ...

Summary:
I'm very happy for having left work, plain and simple. Retirement has been wonderful so far and I don't even feel like I've done that much, even though I've tackled a great many things that would have otherwise continued to be sidelined in lieu of work. Positive changes abound, and there haven't been any strong negatives but rather just some things to expect and be aware of which I'll elaborate in the items below. Overall I would encourage anyone with the means to retire early assuming that they're financially and mentally prepared to do so.


01 -- Perception of time has slowed way down
This has been the most profound observation thus far, and the first that I noticed. I left my employer in the early fall season, and that fall season has been the longest that I can remember. I got to see all of the leaves turning and see them often whilst going for daytime walks, hikes with my wife in the middle of the week, or doing yard work in the afternoons. The constancy and rigidity of my work schedule and routine really made time feel like it was always on fast-forward as compared to now. This has been a wonderful and unexpected phenomenon.

02 -- Only get two or things done per day rather than six or seven
I've got a never-ending list of things that I want or need to do, from my hobbies to fixing things around the house, and it seems that I only really get two, maybe three of them done on a given day, whereas I felt like I was knocking out a much greater number of 'to-dos' at work (granted, they were work-related). I think this is because the kinds of things I want to accomplish each day at home are much more varied, much more nebulous, and might involve more time figuring things out as I'm not as familiar with them (e.g. home repair stuff) or could require outside help and advice. It just plain takes longer, and I have to remind myself that I wouldn't even be attending to these wishes and needs except for perhaps one item during the weekend were I still working. So in that sense I'm killing it, but it's still a mental adjustment.

03 -- I feel grateful, lucky, blessed
This feeling comes up in unexpected bursts at random times. It's a very simple and very deep feeling of gratitude for even being able to step away from work and take a long break like this, and I hope that this won't wear off over time.

04 -- Routine largely unchanged
My general routine of being in bed early and up early is unchanged. I don't even set the alarm and I still generally wake up naturally by 6am (I was up at 5am with the alarm clock for decades, so technically this is "sleeping in" for me and still means a significant amount more sleep each night) and am off to the gym like I've always done. I do linger at the breakfast table longer and drink more coffee and read more news than I used to, but the beginning and end of each day is largely unchanged, and this feels good! Waking up naturally without being interrupted by the alarm clock is a huge improvement in and of itself.

05 -- Hobbies and interests are hugely important
I prepared for retirement over several years, and a lot of that preparation involved carefully thinking through my hobbies and interests, reaching back into the past and thinking of the things I used to enjoy doing but could do no longer because of work obligations, and then to the future for the things I've always wanted to do, and putting it all into a list (see Zelinski's "Get a Life Tree" concept). Boredom and an occasional sense of directionlessness does still occur, and that's when I'm grateful for the list -- I can always pick something, and if I feel like doing none of them then I get up and go for a walk in the daylight, or I close my eyes and drift off for an early afternoon snooze. The real point here is that I would definitely *not* want to go into retirement without such a plan; the transition from the highly structured world of paid employment to the unstructured and wide open field of retirement would be daunting if one went into it unprepared. Everyone in this forum and others repeats the advice about retiring to something and not from something, and while I understood that intellectually, now I really understand why that's so important. If I didn't have all the interests and hobbies that I do, I would have actually started to panic a little bit after only a couple of months.

06 -- Didn't realize how much I needed this break
It's easier to continue shouldering a heavy load in an unceasing routine if you just don't stop moving, and one can just keep on trudgin' along for a long time this way. I realize now that my RPMs of my body and mind were routinely in the yellow and touching the redline and that I just accepted that as being normal. A little while after departing my employer, it started to hit me how badly I needed this break. One time me and the wife were driving back into the city after a long day hike further out of town, and we hit normal rush hour traffic, the kind I'd have been in routinely when coming home from work. It really got under my skin in a strange way and kind of rattled me, like I was suddenly back in the work routine. I realized how badly it affected me, even lasting into the evening at home. I kind of had to talk myself back down and remember that I wasn't going back tomorrow, that I could relax. It wasn't even the traffic itself, but more like my brain believed I was going back to work tomorrow and just wasn't prepared for that feeling.

07 -- How did I ever have the time to work?
Many retirees often share this sentiment. I've hardly even started "vegging out"; I rarely ever watch TV during the day, have watched only a handful of all the films I told myself I'd watch whenever I want or any of that kind of thing. I've got loads of stuff to do each day, errands to run and things like that, and it all fills the day easily, to the point where sometimes there's a day where I don't have something planned and I think, "Ah, thank goodness, a day off." How ridiculous is that? Like with #05 above, I feel very grateful for this.

08 -- No financial concerns so far
Even at six months I feel it's too early to give a proper report on how cashflow is going so I'll post another update in the future, however we're significantly under my budget estimates so far. I am tracking a fresh twelve months of spending so that I'll have hard data to examine in early 2025. So far all lights are still 'green' as I extrapolate ahead and keep track of each month's expenses.

The mental shift of going from accumulation to decumulation has been smooth, too, as we spend from a built up cash position of several years' estimated expenses and otherwise leave investments untouched save for rebalancing when needed. Dividends are going into our checking account, so that inflow offers a lot of peace of mind in itself. I remember it felt far more dramatic to me a few years ago when I was making significant changes before retirement such as putting fresh savings toward building up our bonds and cash; that was when it felt crazy, like I was flipping the flow of money from 'forward' to 'reverse' or not taking each and every advantage by putting new money into stocks. Somehow now being retired and spending slowly from our 'stache just doesn't feel like a big deal, plus there have been no big surprises just yet. Again, I'll have to report back on this after a year of fresh budget tracking, not to mention in the future when things are rockier in the markets again, accounting for a year on the ACA and all of that stuff.

09 -- Still adjusting to the weekday vibe
This one was a little unexpected, but I don't like the 'vibe' of being out in the city during the weekdays as much as I thought I might. Folks are working their jobs and rushing about, there's more construction in progress everywhere (well, of course -- when did I *think* they did that stuff?), and there's a more even distribution of street people where you're never sure if they're homeless, panhandling, maybe a little crazy or just plain have nothing better to do. It is great to be able to run errands at a leisurely pace, go grocery shopping in the middle of a weekday and all of that for sure, but I otherwise just want to do my thing and then just get back home to my own projects again. Comparatively, I do really enjoy the weekend vibe when people are home, out walking their dogs later in the morning, coffee shops are full, and you can just feel that everyone is a little happier. This is overall a good thing: I have the convenience of the weekday to do whatever I need, and the weekends still feel like weekends. I like still feeling that kind of structure in the week.

10 -- Still can't let go of feeling like I'm slacking off from work
I originally thought this would have worn off after six months but now I'm figuring it'll be a year! I still have this ugly feeling that I'm taking too much time off work, that it's all just piling up and waiting for me as soon as I'm back. This feeling had been increasingly eroding at vacations and holiday time and made it difficult to relax, and it's still really ingrained in me. I even still get the 'Sunday dread' feeling at the end of each week; it's crazy. The difference now is that this unpleasant feeling can immediately be soothed when I remind myself that it's over and done, that I don't have to go back tomorrow. This back-and-forth is still constant and very much with me.

11 -- Core personality traits remain unchanged
No question, I am happier and generally more relaxed, however it's been interesting to realize that my core personality and traits are still there and unchanged. I'm a worrier and a planner but now I put those energies into different pursuits. I'm prone to depression or bouts of 'the blues' and rather surprisingly that is also unchanged: it comes and goes like it always has, though I do feel like I have more ways to defuse it, e.g. reminding myself that it's ok if I do nothing today, that it's ok for things to slip into tomorrow and that there's plenty of time, etc. My main point here is that even after you leave work, you'll still be yourself with all of your plusses and minuses, and you shouldn't expect they'll all be solved or change even after leaving your job behind. All that said, my wife will tell you that I'm palpably much happier than I've been in a very long time. I would say I still have my highs and lows, but that the highs last longer now while the lows aren't quite so low. I'll reiterate here that it's very important to have a plan for interests and hobbies as they really help me combat my natural tendency to sink into a slump.

Another interesting observation here is that being busy with work can really allow you to avoid dealing with personal issues and worries. I'd generally have been too busy to give into what I was feeling inside and just had to suck it up and be a professional. It's also possible to read too much news too often and let it send me into a spiral, and work allowed me to avoid that as well. So, kind of a funny trade-off and just something to be aware of: work does kind of shield you from things.

12 -- I love Mondays
While I still experience the 'Sunday dread', it immediately gets nullified when I remember that tomorrow is Monday, a chance to start again fresh on another week of my own interests and to-dos, a fresh calendar week to fill in as I see fit. My gym routine begins again, then coffee and reading the news with the cat before getting cleaned up and tackling the day.

13 -- Dinner reservations during the week are easy
I live in a city full of restaurants and oodles of people who like to eat at those restaurants, and it's generally wise to make a reservation a good week or more ahead if you're planning to dine on the weekends. Well, now we have the whole string of weekdays at our disposal, plus actually being around early enough to be able to make a 6pm reservation (previously I'd never have made it back into the city even before 7pm), and so my wife and I have been able to eat at some phenomenal restaurants by snatching an early reservation on a Tuesday night when their business is a little slower. And we're not eating in a big empty room as people still all quickly fill in around us, so it's the best of both worlds. Even so, we're still so used to cooking at home during the week that we actually don't take advantage of this often enough!

14 -- Reaction to my retirement has been surprisingly minimal
I felt very self-conscious at first about telling people I'd quit my job and had a whole story about how I'm just taking a break, a long sabbatical, a hiatus or whatever people want to call it, and I wouldn't bring it up unless forced to do so such as when someone asks what I do for a living. Well, to my surprise most people don't really have all that much to say in response and we soon move on to other subjects. The response I do get has also been overwhelmingly positive, sentiments like, "Good for you, everyone should do that at some point," and also the discovery that a lot of other people *have* taken at the very least a break from their profession for a time and for any number of reasons. But in general, people aren't all that interested and we just don't linger on the subject, to the point where I wonder what it was I was so concerned about in the first place. I've only had one person give me a somewhat negative response which was from a friend of mine who only commented, "Dude, I just don't know what you're gonna do with all that time ..." while also asking zero follow-up questions like if I had a plan (of course I do!) or how I accomplished this or whatever. I think he was just expressing his own inner concerns for himself, and I know others in the forum here have noticed a similar kind of 'emotional reflection' from some people.

15 -- Food goes fast / Bills are a little higher
I should have anticipated this one but overlooked it entirely: we sure do run out of food in a hurry now that I'm home so much of the time. I used to take advantage of ample coffee and snacks at work as well as being able to eat lunch on-site, and now my voracious ways are focused squarely on our own stores. Just something to keep in mind! The same is true for our utility bills which are on average about 20% higher than before my retirement. Not a huge deal, but just one of those little things I failed to anticipate when planning for the larger aspects of retirement. More lights are on more often, computers are used more often, the toilet gets flushed more often, more dishes get washed in the middle of the day, etc. One might also see this as an unwritten benefit or discount offered at their place of work!

16 -- It's chilly at home!
This is the first fall and winter season that I've spent so much time at home, and what do you know, it can be kinda cold when you're just at home doing your thing all day. We keep the thermostat at 68F at night, bumping it up to a luxurious 70F during the day if both me and my wife are home, and if you're not doing something physically active then even this can still feel chilly at times. My office at work was pretty warm by comparison, I was wearing more clothing, I was probably moving about the building a bit more, and I had a pretty active commute involving walking, bicycling, lots of stairs in and out of the subway on either end, then a short drive and another walk, so that always had me warmed me up at the start and end of each day. Anyway, it's all just something to anticipate and adjust to: I now wear more layers when around the house, and I can always suit up and go for a nice winter walk in the glorious daylight now, and that's more than enough to make the house feel just right once more.

17 -- There's always tomorrow
It's taken me until very recently to really internalize this as I my nature is to constantly plan ahead and worry about lack of time, and working really reinforced that mindset. Now if something is taking me longer than expected or I realize I won't be able to finish it today, I feel almost a sense of pressure relief as I realize it can just slip into tomorrow and that that's perfectly ok. My work involved unchanging delivery deadlines several years into the future for each project, and everything else was working back from that date to find space to accomplish the necessary necessaries, plus constant readjusting and hustling if things weren't proceeding as planned. That culture is still very much in my bones in a deep way. This new sense of "it's ok, this can wait until tomorrow" is like a cooling balm on a scalding burn, and I'm only just starting to get used to it even now.

I also still have the occasional sleepless night, but now instead of burning up with panic about how bad I need to get to sleep and how am I going to make it through tomorrow and all that drama, I know that I can just tiptoe out of the bedroom and downstairs to the couch where our cat is more than happy to curl up on my chest while I read for a bit until I drift off again, and I can just catch a nap the next afternoon. I cannot overstate what a constant relief this is, this feeling of being able to let go and let the schedule slide when needed.

18 -- Keeping a schedule is still important
I'm still happiest when I keep to some sort of schedule, generally timeblocking my days (see Cal Newport's book 'Deep Work', his podcast or any of his writings) so I make sure to devote specific time to my hobbies, planning when I'm going to run errands or attend to chores around the house. Longer breakfasts at home are great, but at a certain point in the morning I want to get up and get moving, and I actually enjoy treating my list of wishes and to-dos as my 'day job' now, disappearing into my home office by a certain hour in the morning, eating lunch around the same time as I'm accustomed and so forth. What's great is that I can keep that structure in my life, but also am still available to start cooking dinner together with my wife at a much more humane time than I ever could before, so it's the best of all worlds.

It's also easy to have 30+ things I want to do all rattling around in my head and end up randomly bouncing around between each of them, barely scratching the surface or making any real progress. It's far better to timeblock, i.e. set a time and duration, and then do those things one at a time, steadily and to completion. Cal Newport's slow productivity principles apply here as well. Some people may read this and think, "But I want to retire so that I don't have a schedule anymore!" Of course that's fine if that works well for you! I still need some kind of structure or framework for my own life. Just keep this in mind when paid employment is behind you and in case you feel that lack of structure ... lacking. I think this one could surprise some people.

19 -- Feel like I'm just getting started
It's now six months since I departed my employer, and it truly feels like I'm only getting started with this retirement thing. The start of 2024 especially, getting past the holidays and all that, also felt like a significant milestone where I was truly putting this plan (i.e. the to-do lists and schedules mentioned above) into action across the blank canvas of a new year. I had a phone call not too long ago with a contractor with whom I would regularly keep in touch because I realized I hadn't told him of my departure, and so he wanted to catch up and hear some details. I think he assumed I was leaving my employer and immediately seeking new employment, so he was offering a lot of helpful advice as to how I might approach contracting or what kinds of new employers I should consider pursuing with my skill set. His intentions were good so I listened to what he had to say and just let him know that I was going to keep taking a break for a while longer, but inside I felt almost a feeling of revulsion, almost traumatic, like the thought of going back to work (or at least the same kind of work) was just way, way too soon. It surprised me how immediate this feeling was. It suddenly felt as if I'd only just left my job a week ago and that I hadn't had the chance to truly rest up and heal. At that moment the many posts I've read here about how long decompression can take really hit home. This is gonna take a while, and that's also been wonderful to realize.

Cheers everyone, and here's to the forum and your shared wisdom,

Markus
« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 06:56:05 AM by markus »

curious_george

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2024, 07:29:56 AM »
Thanks for this write up - this was enjoyable to read.

I am just curious, how old were you when you retired?

I once planned on taking a break from work when I was 30 and my in laws dramatically freaked out even about me taking a short break from work. I wound up not taking a break at all, but the experience was really eye opening about how different people react to things.

spartanswami

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2024, 07:35:11 AM »
Thank you Markus, that was a lovely read. Glad you also got the time to write such a long post, would love to keep reading your updates periodically.

reeshau

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2024, 09:35:49 AM »
I don't even set the alarm and I still generally wake up naturally...

#1 benefit, for me. It's like starting off on the right foot, every day.  Also, any day you do need the alarm (travel days, appointments, etc.) becomes jarring.  We still have a young son, so we live a quasi-regular life during the school year.  But our summers are truly glorious!

It sounds like you approached FIRE thoughtfully, and are on a good glidepath.  Hopefully you can continue to share your positive experiences, and maybe make a convert or two!

markus

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2024, 10:20:25 AM »
Quote
I am just curious, how old were you when you retired?

I was 44 when I FIREd.

Quote
... I was 30 and my in laws dramatically freaked out ...

I'm thankful that my parents were supportive, especially my dad who was the primary breadwinner in our family and also retired somewhat early at about 52 or 53. His departure was a bit less planned than mine; he'd just had enough corporate and personal BS and realized that he could comfortably walk away if he and my mom didn't suddenly expand their spending in some dramatic fashion.

Yeah, I can see why your in-laws would freak and all that, and it makes me doubly grateful when someone has responded to my news in a very positive and supporting way. Even if they're thinking, "Hmm, that seems awfully early," they're kind enough to keep it to themselves and to give me the benefit of the doubt that I know what I'm doing, that I could still generate income if needed. That's how I interpret things anyway.

JupiterGreen

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2024, 10:32:19 AM »
This was a fantastic read, I really appreciate it. I hope you do update it as you go. Some of the concepts you wrote about, I have been trying to enact now while I'm working by telling myself that nothing is an emergency (I'm not a doctor). So I am trying to just work at a reasonable pace and what gets done gets done. I guess I am doing the old "quiet quitting" by not saying yes to everything, making things that I can control less complicated, and trying to protect my time. I also appreciate how you talked about you being you even without work. Sometimes we have this idea that all our problems will disappear once work is gone, but if you need a therapist now you'll likely still need a therapist later. Shout out to my fellow CPTSD friends. Thanks again for this extensive account of your first 6 months.

markus

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2024, 10:37:26 AM »
While this really doesn't fit into the original premise of observations since retiring in my original post, I did think of a few regrets or mistakes as I think these are also valuable to consider just in case they might apply to anyone else's situation, and I think it's these negative aspects that most potential FIRE-ees are likely most curious about:

01 -- Vacation days payout taxed as income
I had a large pile of vacation/holiday/PTO time accumulated at the time I resigned, and I took it as a cash payout in my final paycheck. However, I failed to consider that the cash value of that holiday time would then be taxed as income, so in effect I gave a significant chunk of the value of that time to the tax man, and I'd have enjoyed more of that time value had I taken the days off. Even so, there was simply no time to take more than perhaps a few of those days in all of 2023 up until I left (and this was one of many reasons I was choosing to leave in the first place, of course), so in that sense it's just water under the bridge and doesn't matter at this point. But still something to consider in case this matters to you.

02 -- Didn't receive final year's company 401(k) match from my employer
I failed to notice a clause in my employee handbook detailing that one must be employed through the last day of the year in order to receive that year's company match in our 401(k). Oops! This would have meant sticking around another 3+ months longer than I wanted to, and I back and forth about whether that would have been worth it. I gave myself a good palm to the forehead and then just decided that I had a great time this past fall, saw the wonderful seasonal colors, traveled more extensively and with greater flexibility (and thus a bit cheaper), spent more time with my wife and with our families ... and, well, I just got over it. I saved like crazy through my whole career, put away any big windfalls into savings and investments any time I was lucky enough to receive them, and on and on. Anyway, just consider this notice to really check those details if they're really important.

03 -- Next project was tough to walk away from
I knew this would be a tough decision even a few years before leaving, but I really would have liked to work on the next big project at work. This would have meant another several years' commitment, however, and continued if not increased workload from where it already was. In the end, it was just time to go and one has to make a decision and live with it. We don't get the time back, and so I chose to have the time!

markus

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2024, 10:43:52 AM »
Quote
So I am trying to just work at a reasonable pace and what gets done gets done. I guess I am doing the old "quiet quitting" by not saying yes to everything, making things that I can control less complicated, and trying to protect my time.

Oh man, it sounds to me like you're just working smartly and efficiently. I think the best workers are those who can really commit their skills and attention 100% when working, and when work is done then they can put it all away and go be a human being, a husband or wife, a father or mother, a friend. I think what you're doing is the right thing, especially if it protects you from really burning out.

Quote
... but if you need a therapist now you'll likely still need a therapist later.

Absolutely. I spent some time with a therapist prior to giving notice at work, and I really enjoyed and value those sessions. I do think about going back to the same therapist to discuss a lot of the continued work anxiety that I haven't shaken. I think there's probably some work to do in order to put myself and my family first again after having so dilligently put work first for a very long time. It made me a great worker but left me somewhat a shell of a person.

2sk22

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2024, 10:46:25 AM »
I made a very similar post for the three year anniversary of my retirement. Its remarkable how much similarity I see in our respective posts!

markus

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2024, 10:52:54 AM »
2sk22,

Oh, I definitely read your post and its replies, and it was much appreciated in quieting the many doubts that started to bubble up in the final weeks before I FIREd. I even used your post's title as a template so these are all easier to find. : )

2sk22

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2024, 11:17:28 AM »
2sk22,

Oh, I definitely read your post and its replies, and it was much appreciated in quieting the many doubts that started to bubble up in the final weeks before I FIREd. I even used your post's title as a template so these are all easier to find. : )

Glad I could be of help 😀 I really like how thorough you were in recording your experiences!

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2024, 05:55:45 PM »
11 -- Core personality traits remain unchanged

This.


I was just discussing in another thread how Americans especially, have been raised to think the things they do are who they are.  If you meet someone knew, a common first question is "what do you do? (for work)."  Never have I been asked, "who are you?" or "what things matter to you?"  I think this is why so many people are so miserable at work.  We put the emphasis on the wrong things and choose a profession that doesn't let us explore our most important values.  I was never an "accountant" at heart.  I always did accounting tasks for a living...

GilesMM

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2024, 08:07:35 PM »
TLDR, but I like the short to-do list ambition.  I am often happy if I accomplish one good thing per day, even though my mind is raging and the list is long.  I have overdone it quite a few times and worn myself out.  What's the rush?

Freedomin5

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2024, 11:46:59 PM »
Thanks for sharing your observations! Very helpful as we are getting ready to FIRE.

former player

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2024, 01:13:51 AM »
Thanks for such an orderly explanation.  I'm currently struggling to help a friend who is looking at retiring in the next year but is too busy working to set herself up with a plan for what she will do after retirement and won't retire until she's done that - yet I get pushback every time I suggest she slows down at work.

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2024, 11:05:54 AM »
Thanks for documenting your experience.  I'm getting close to pulling the trigger (class of 2025?) and love reading these threads.  Numbers 11 & 17 really resonate with me.  You point about PTO is spot on.  One of my goals is to be paid for less than 2 weeks PTO when I quit for the reasons you mentioned.

Regarding #16 - unless we have a fire going, our place is 60F at night and 65F during the day.  Our master is on a separate thermostat which remains set at 60F during the day.

FireLane

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2024, 11:29:06 AM »
Excellent writeup! This is a very thoughtful and detailed summary of what FIREd life is like. I retired in 2021, and I still identify with almost everything you wrote here.

Like you, now that I've had a taste of FIRE, I wonder how I ever had time to work. I too have an endless list of hobbies and other things I want to do. On the one hand, it's helpful in filling up my days. I haven't been bored for a second since I quit my job. On the other hand, I have to consciously remind myself to slow down, rather than trying to plow through everything on the list as quickly as possible (a lingering habit from my work days).

I tell myself that I have the time now, and the point of life is to enjoy it and be grateful, not to check off as many tasks as I can. I know that finding the right balance is a lifelong pursuit.

Tasse

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2024, 05:33:28 PM »
I don't follow the logic of the vacation day payout issue. If you take PTO, you get paid as though you had worked, and it's taxed as income. If you don't take it, you get to cash it out, and it's taxed as income. Financially, it's effectively as though you had worked that many days longer. Is the point just that the time would have been more valuable to you as mid-work vacation than as an infinitesimally earlier quit date?

Great writeup :)

Sandi_k

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2024, 08:46:19 PM »
@markus - I am planning on leaving with 300+ hours of vacation leave to payout. If I leave at the end of the year, the overwithholding of tax will be refunded within a few months.

I plan to use that payout to pay for a dozen friends to join myself and DH at some lovely vacation spot. I pay for the hotel, they pay for the airfare.

Should be fun!

Fresh Bread

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2024, 09:27:59 PM »
This is such a great post and will be useful to lots of readers.

I closed my business about 10 months ago. I didn't think I needed to decompress (this was the 'fun' business I set up after leaving the corporate world) but I did.

Now I'm very heavily involved with a NFP. The wonderful thing is, I'm in a sort of peripheral role where I can do how much I like. There's a weekly routine to it where there's a few things I must do Tues-Thurs. I have one meeting on Thurs which is the worst but, but after that I'll vegetate to decompress and there's no expectation for me to be doing any different. Every Thurs night is takeaway night and every Friday I wake up thinking it's Saturday. 

Like Markus, we've spent more than we thought (mainly due to eating lunch out randomly and things like that) but DH is pretty happy at the level we are at. I'm not so comfortable and occasionally look at jobs. And then I visualise setting an alarm and having to show up day after day and that puts me right off! If we really needed a few extra dollars I could contact old clients and do 5 hrs a week or something.

And I am SO resentful if I need to set an alarm for any reason. I sleep for 9 hrs because of some medication I'm on. This would just not be possible with work.

markus

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2024, 06:51:56 AM »
Tass:
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If you take PTO, you get paid as though you had worked, and it's taxed as income. If you don't take it, you get to cash it out, and it's taxed as income. Financially, it's effectively as though you had worked that many days longer. Is the point just that the time would have been more valuable to you as mid-work vacation than as an infinitesimally earlier quit date?

You're right -- I wasn't considering the fact that it's taxed either way, so yes, I'd have enjoyed the 'full value' of those days had I taken them. But again, there just wasn't time to do so, and so it goes.

Sandi_k:
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leaving with 300+ hours of vacation leave to payout. If I leave at the end of the year, the overwithholding of tax will be refunded within a few months

That's a really interesting angle, and sounds a damn good way to spend the money. The memories from such a hangout with friends will essentially be priceless, and just think, the whole thing might not have happened if you hadn't planned it and treated everyone. That's the best.

weebs:
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Thanks for documenting your experience.

One thing I try and do is to always jot down these thoughts, feelings and observations right as they occur to me. Otherwise they can kind of flutter by and I might not think of them until they come again, and I wanted to record all of this stuff both for posterity and for my own memories. I did the same thing during roughly the last two or so years of work, jotting down all of the reasons that I was choosing to leave. I had a lot of successes in my career and feel very lucky to have an employer that rewarded those successes, and so I knew that over time that I would forget or kind of "smooth over" the many negatives that had accumulated, remembering only the positives.

That's a good thing, don't get me wrong! However, I wanted to have the list of gripes, bitches, aches and pains to always refer back to should I ever get the urge to return, or if they were to ask me to do any kind of contract work ... a reminder that I'd be choosing to step back into a certain lifestyle that's still going to come with all of these negatives. So, just as with the generally positive observations since FIRE'ing, I made a point to always jot down the reasons for leaving as soon as they occurred to me. I re-read that list just recently and thought, "Yep, I made the right decision; it was just time to go and time for a change." That's a really good feeling.


evanc

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2024, 12:35:17 PM »
"Dude, I just don't know what you're gonna do with all that time ..." while also asking zero follow-up questions like if I had a plan (of course I do!) or how I accomplished this or whatever. I think he was just expressing his own inner concerns for himself, and I know others in the forum here have noticed a similar kind of 'emotional reflection' from some people.

First, thank you for sharing all of these thoughts and observations. It sounds like this exercise has been valuable for you personally, and based on the feedback it is much appreciated by others, yours truly included.

I don't know you or your friend, but from an outside perspective this sounds very much like cognitive dissonance and nothing more. When you share that you are no longer in need of paid work, it would be quite normal for him to wonder why he isn't able to do the same thing (social beings can't help but compare to one another), which then raises all sorts of feelings of inferiority, triggering defensive rationalizations like "it's better to rely on paid work to fill my day in order to avoid the task of figuring out what to do with my time." This conclusion obviously doesn't withstand even the slightest scrutiny, but probably does serve to make him feel better.

Personally, if given the choice between having the hours of my day designed by a third-party (employer) versus myself, I'm choosing the latter every time and suspect you feel the same. But if people value being told what to do 40+ hours per week, c'est la vie.

Dicey

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2024, 09:24:34 AM »
PTF

elaine amj

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2024, 02:50:08 PM »
I too have never received much flak when mentioning I am retired (other than minor things from my mother) although every once in a while I get people asking when I’ll go back to work.

Like you most people just nod and then move on to more interesting subjects. I generally say we decided we only needed a simple life so when we had enough, it was time to FIRE.


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markus

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2024, 07:15:05 AM »
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When you share that you are no longer in need of paid work, it would be quite normal for him to wonder why he isn't able to do the same thing (social beings can't help but compare to one another), which then raises all sorts of feelings of inferiority, triggering defensive rationalizations like "it's better to rely on paid work to fill my day in order to avoid the task of figuring out what to do with my time." This conclusion obviously doesn't withstand even the slightest scrutiny, but probably does serve to make him feel better.

Yes, agreed on all points, and with this person it's also not something I linger on, as in I don't constantly call attention to my being free from work or "rub it in" or whatever. He also still feels a strong sense of duty toward his work which I very much admire.

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Personally, if given the choice between having the hours of my day designed by a third-party (employer) versus myself, I'm choosing the latter every time and suspect you feel the same. But if people value being told what to do 40+ hours per week, c'est la vie.

It's funny, but I feel like I could see myself having gone either way on this one. I enjoyed the freedom I had in my work to find my own way to the big end goals of each project, but there were plenty of times that I'd have been happy if someone else was just telling me what to work on each day. I'm speaking with total ignorance here, but I always had a respect for folks who went the military route in their career: this is the plan, these are your orders, and your job is to carry out those orders and not ask questions. There's a beautiful simplicity to that, at least on the surface.

Coming back to the FIRE lifestyle, this is one subject that I do try and bring up with my friend mentioned above, asking what his longer-term plans might be, if he ever thinks about the things he used to do and would like to do again, or the things he's always wanted to do, etc ... basically Zelinski's 'Get-A-Life Tree' idea. I mentioned this in my list of observations so far: I wouldn't want to step away from work unless I had a good plan, list of hobbies, a rough schedule idea of what an average week will look like and all of that stuff. Those are the seeds I want to plant in my friend's head.

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I too have never received much flak when mentioning I am retired (other than minor things from my mother) although every once in a while I get people asking when I’ll go back to work.

Like you most people just nod and then move on to more interesting subjects. I generally say we decided we only needed a simple life so when we had enough, it was time to FIRE.

We've also continued to tell folks that we're taking a job hiatus or sabbatical. Reaction is always positive and then we soon move on to other subjects just like you described. One kind of funny thing is when someone who already knows that we're not working asks what we've been up to. Well, tons of things, really! I'm making progress with my musical instrument like I never have before, with foreign language study, we're getting our little garden into shape for the first time in years, finishing furnishing the house which we were never going to get around to, taking small day trips or easy overnighters that we wouldn't have had time for, knocking out lots of other important to-dos that would have been put off, helping a friend out in the middle of the week, and on and on and on ... and yet when the question is put to me, my mind goes blank and I pause for a moment before replying, "Oh, not much."

I consider this part of my observation #10 (can't let go of the feeling that I'm slacking off from work) in that these important things that need doing at home, or me and my wife's happiness is somehow secondary or doesn't really count as a thing worth talking about, or I don't want to tell this person who might still be working about all the leisurely things I've been doing out of self-consciousness. Well, whatever. I'm only 7+ months in after over two decades of work, so it's gonna take a while to shake it off.

elaine amj

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2024, 11:45:37 AM »
Yeah - DH and my mother were constantly on me about “being productive”. My mother is 75 and keeps herself busy with productive things.

I tend more on the couch potato FIRE person and I’m ok spending several days in a row not being productive.

I find busy days come in phases. Sometimes I am so busy that it is 1-2 months before I can schedule a friend in for lunch/dinner.


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Ron Scott

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2024, 06:15:19 PM »
I too have never received much flak when mentioning I am retired (other than minor things from my mother) although every once in a while I get people asking when I’ll go back to work.

Like you most people just nod and then move on to more interesting subjects. I generally say we decided we only needed a simple life so when we had enough, it was time to FIRE.

I think is the typical response. Most people really don’t care what others do with their lives if it doesn’t impact them directly. I’m like that…who cares?

Fru-Gal

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Re: Six month post-retirement update and observations
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2024, 09:55:35 AM »
Love this update. I too have a million projects in FIRE. It seems that perhaps deeply wired in my personality/training there’s a pressure to do things. I often feel slightly stressed at choosing what to do first— walk the dogs, go to the gym, work on my painting, do other hobbies, practice new skills, garden, clean/organize, explore, ride the bike, etc… Don’t get me wrong, this kind of “stress” is MICROSCOPIC compared to that of working/having a boss.

I also am taking two community college classes and they are a revelation. Plan to sign up for more in the fall, though I think two is a good number since there’s not much homework. I’ve met a bunch of wonderful people of all ages that way too.

I’m also in the beginning stages of empty nest (one kid has moved out) and that too is a big life change. It’s very similar to FIRE, where you have this sense of having “completed” or “won the game” of life and the lack of responsibility to keep two kids from drowning in a bucket or dying of starvation is unnerving.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!