Author Topic: Help!: Earning Money with Zero Adjusted Gross Income  (Read 3976 times)

JG in Hangzhou

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • Location: Hangzhou, China
Help!: Earning Money with Zero Adjusted Gross Income
« on: October 08, 2016, 08:37:54 PM »
Here's the situation:   I live and run my own business in China, pay local taxes, etc.  I file US tax returns every year as I have investments and rental properties. In the past I did some consulting that was taxable in the US, but this year I have none.  So I began cashing out some of my unrealized gains while I have 0 wage, salary, etc.  to lock in gains at 0% capital gains tax rate and keeping the gains under $75,000.  I hope I'm doing this right.   Also, wondering about timing to put the money back in.   Is waiting for a drop, just wishful thinking?  I also cashed out some rotten funds in my retirement IRA to move into total stock market index, so totally I'm holding about 30% in cash.   
Should I hold and wait for a 10% drop?  With the election coming up, the market's bound to move around???
Put it back in over the next year?  Slow but steady.
Stop reading the news and put the money in now?


MustacheAndaHalf

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6659
Re: Help!: Earning Money with Zero Adjusted Gross Income
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2016, 09:33:45 AM »
When you say 0% long-term gains up to $75,000 I think you mean married/filing jointly.  Try this experiment: in tax software, fill in a 1099-div with $95,000 in both box 1a ("ordinary dividends") and box 1b ("qualified dividends").  You should see $0 Federal tax (or several thousand if you forgot to select "married/filing jointly").  The reason is for married/filing jointly you have $20k of income tax reduction: you have a standard deduction of $12k, and exemptions worth $8k.  So you should be able to reach $95,000 in long-term capital gains (and/or qualified dividends) while in the 10-15% tax brackets.

Guessing about a drop is speculation.  The problem is that you're up against every expert in the stock market.  What are Apple's prospects if each candidate wins, and what's the chance of each candidate winning?  That information has been publicly known for long enough that the market already priced it in.  The same for the rest of the stocks in the market.  If news actually breaks, algorithms and traders race to be the first ones to profit in the milliseconds after the news.  If you buy based on news that's a few hours old, it's far too late.

Most often, 30% cash is far too much.  You might investigate holding more bonds than cash, and take a closer look at your stock percentage relative to when you expect to retire.

JG in Hangzhou

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • Location: Hangzhou, China
Re: Help!: Earning Money with Zero Adjusted Gross Income
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2016, 10:22:53 PM »
Thanks M1.5!  It seems I have a little more room for cashing in gains, that's good.
Also thanks for telling me what I already knew, gaming the market is like going to Vegas. 

MrMoogle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1136
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Huntsville, AL
Re: Help!: Earning Money with Zero Adjusted Gross Income
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2016, 02:26:53 PM »
Are you using the foreign earned income exclusion for your income in China? If so, the way I understand it, is income in the US is on brackets above this.  Say you make 75,300 in China, filling up the 15% tax bracket.  If that is all the money you make you exclude all of it and pay no taxes. 

If you then make $50k in the US, you remove the $20k from the standard deduction and exemptions, you then pay $30k in the 25% tax bracket (since your 15% bracket is filled by the FEIE, even though you haven't maxed that out).

I could be wrong, it doesn't seem stated very well:
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion

JG in Hangzhou

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • Location: Hangzhou, China
Re: Help!: Earning Money with Zero Adjusted Gross Income
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2016, 10:38:17 PM »
I did use that early on, as my employer was paying me both in the US and in China.
Now however, I have my own business in China, and so income is reportable to China and taxed by China
My personal income from that business is under the threshold of being reportable to the US.
At least as explained by the tax professionals I have talked with.

JG in Hangzhou

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • Location: Hangzhou, China
Re: Help!: Earning Money with Zero Adjusted Gross Income
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2016, 10:40:44 PM »
My real dilemma is selling a house in the US, and realizing taxable gains during the time my US wage,salary are at 0.

MrMoogle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1136
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Huntsville, AL
Re: Help!: Earning Money with Zero Adjusted Gross Income
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2016, 08:22:09 AM »
I did use that early on, as my employer was paying me both in the US and in China.
Now however, I have my own business in China, and so income is reportable to China and taxed by China
My personal income from that business is under the threshold of being reportable to the US.
At least as explained by the tax professionals I have talked with.
Are you a dual citizen? 
What threshold are you talking about?  I must not be familiar with it.

JG in Hangzhou

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • Location: Hangzhou, China
Re: Help!: Earning Money with Zero Adjusted Gross Income
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2016, 08:17:17 AM »
Well technically, my company doesnt pay me any money.
So I have no income in China.
My company has income. And it pays tax to China, and is outside US jurisdiction.
I take no salary.  I pay for things out of my personal account. Money brought into China from America.
Get it?

MrMoogle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1136
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Huntsville, AL
Re: Help!: Earning Money with Zero Adjusted Gross Income
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2016, 09:51:00 AM »
Well technically, my company doesnt pay me any money.
So I have no income in China.
My company has income. And it pays tax to China, and is outside US jurisdiction.
I take no salary.  I pay for things out of my personal account. Money brought into China from America.
Get it?

That makes sense.  I'd just be sure that the IRS understands it that way. 
I've lived overseas, just never owned a business overseas, so I don't think I can give you much advise.  Good luck!