Feeling a bit guilty about quitting

[Skinnyneo]

I went into IT a few years ago and generally enjoy it. I decided to specialize in cyber security and enjoyed the study and prospects of getting a job in it. I pulled off getting a job February of this year.

From the description and interviews it seemed the job would include my previous management experience in that I would be collaborating with teams across the globe. Cool no problem, as long as there is cyber security in there as well I am down. For them I think the position is hard to fill as someone with cyber skills/management skills and fluent English is a little hard to find even in Tokyo.

Fast forward to today and I feel like the job is cyber-lite at best. The bulk of the job is coordinating with global teams, and now we are ramping up to start projects with the teams. Another thing to note, most of the global teams are not super keen on this "collaboration." From my observation they see it as getting in the way of their daily job. So moving forward I see nothing but a slog of convincing teams to participate as the company tries to incorporate the cyber teams into a global team instead of smaller separate teams. I don't really feel this is what I signed up for, and I should be getting paid more like a high level manager than a beginner cyber security salary.

Bonus is paid out in December and I am thinking of quitting and going FIRE in January.

I'm early 40s and we have about 1.2MM NW with no kids. My partner will continue to work. They enjoy their job.

Problem is I am feeling guilty about doing this. Last year I had some major health issues (nothing job or stress related just some unfortunate circumstances) and I am thinking of lying and saying these health reasons have come back worse and that is why I am going to quit. I worry this may trigger their damage control and they start to offer a LOA, etc. At the same time I feel guilty telling them this job was just not what I had thought it was going to be and I don't see that changing.

The prospect of "everyday is Saturday" does also excite me. :)

Can anybody releate or just covince me that I owe them nothing and should do what I want?

[FINate]

First things first: You own the company nothing. This is a professional relationship, nothing more. There's nothing wrong with quitting if the job isn't a good fit.

That said, if you quit I would not lie about your health as an excuse. Be honest about your concerns and they may be willing to modify the position to keep you, which is a win-win. If not, you were going to quit anyway so no problem.

Something else to consider: From your description it sounds like you're in a great position. This is a key role they desperately need and have had difficulty filling. In other words, this could be a great opportunity. Show them you can do the job and do it well, even if this means you're underpaid for a year or so. Then negotiate a promotion and comp increase. You could leverage this into a quick jump in net worth over the next few years, assuming of course this is interesting to you. If not, just FIRE and don't worry about it.

[Metalcat]

If you owe your company for your job, then the company has been systematically over valuing you and will be happy to see you leave.

If what you're feeling is that you're too important to your company and they will suffer without you? Then you've been systematically under valued and should probably have been paid more/given better benefits all along.

If the value of work is incentivized appropriately, it's not hard to replace even the most talented employee.

The workers who I've seen feeling the most guilt about leaving are the ones who let themselves be undervalued for years, because they've accepted a certain amount of their compensation to be in the form of appreciation and praise instead of money and benefits.

I'm not saying this is your case, I'm just saying what I've seen in years of management and management consulting.

One of the key things I've always said to business owners is that there's a countdown clock above every single staff members' head, and they can speed up or slow those clocks through management decisions, but they can never stop them.

A business structure that can't nimbly adjust to the very normal and inevitable process of staff leaving is just a shitty business structure that is existing in a state of delusion.

Also, the chaos of certain staff leaving and remaining staff struggling is also something that can look like mismanagement, but is actually intentional.

Many business systems actively want the chaos of key staff leaving to see how well tasks can be redistributed in a leaner system.

Again, not saying this is your company, just what I've seen.

At the end of the day, sure, feel bad for your colleagues for how disruptive your leaving might be, but know that the fault lies firmly on the organization if that happens, because it's either sloppy management, or intentional pressure.

Either way, you have zero power over it, so you should take zero responsibility.

I once left a clinic and my patients suffered dearly because it was so poorly managed and I was holding it together with metaphorical duct tape and shoestrings. To this day I feel bad for those patients, but I shoulder zero blame. I worked under compensated for a few years and should never have let myself be used that way.

You shouldn't feel guilty for a dynamic that you have not created and cannot control.

Staff leave. Inevitably, staff leave. This should be a non-event for every single role in every single company.

[Metalcat]

First things first: You own the company nothing. This is a professional relationship, nothing more. There's nothing wrong with quitting if the job isn't a good fit.

That said, if you quit I would not lie about your health as an excuse. Be honest about your concerns and they may be willing to modify the position to keep you, which is a win-win. If not, you were going to quit anyway so no problem.

Something else to consider: From your description it sounds like you're in a great position. This is a key role they desperately need and have had difficulty filling. In other words, this could be a great opportunity. Show them you can do the job and do it well, even if this means you're underpaid for a year or so. Then negotiate a promotion and comp increase. You could leverage this into a quick jump in net worth over the next few years, assuming of course this is interesting to you. If not, just FIRE and don't worry about it.

^

Any time I see "key role" and "hard to fill" that just screams UNDER COMPENSATED

[erp]

I'm tempted to say that a lot of roles which are hard to fill are also just very badly formulated (ie. the role is trying to do a bunch of unrelated things, or requires some sort of unusual blend of skills which the current employee holds but are highly atypical). There's an old saying that if you keep hiring smart and competent people who keep failing to do the job, the problem is the job not the people.

In small companies it's normal to have the role defined by a specific person's skills and interests, and those roles are almost categorically badly formed - I once knew a "sys-admin/bicycling coordinator/HR rep" and that's an impossible job scope. This too is the company's problem - the solution to this sort of issue is "hire two or three people" not "hire one swiss army knife employee who miraculously can solve all these issues". I like working for this kind of small company, because it means they're likely to be flexible and give employees a lot of autonomy, but it makes it harder when people leave.

tl;dr - leave if it's the right choice for you. Don't burn bridges, signal clearly that you're happy to help them make the transition as painless as possible, and then it's their job to figure it out.

Somewhat different take: It sounds like you would like the job more if it were differently shaped - maybe that's an issue that you could fix (ie. if the problem is that the cyber teams you're semi-managing see the global roles as an impediment to their real work, then that's a real gap between head office and local needs. That might be a really interesting problem to try and solve, and could be way more satisfying while still existing in your scope. You've got very little to lose if you're already leaving, why not try to do the best work you can in the space you're in).

[Metalcat]

I'm tempted to say that a lot of roles which are hard to fill are also just very badly formulated (ie. the role is trying to do a bunch of unrelated things, or requires some sort of unusual blend of skills which the current employee holds but are highly atypical). There's an old saying that if you keep hiring smart and competent people who keep failing to do the job, the problem is the job not the people.

In small companies it's normal to have the role defined by a specific person's skills and interests, and those roles are almost categorically badly formed - I once knew a "sys-admin/bicycling coordinator/HR rep" and that's an impossible job scope. This too is the company's problem - the solution to this sort of issue is "hire two or three people" not "hire one swiss army knife employee who miraculously can solve all these issues". I like working for this kind of small company, because it means they're likely to be flexible and give employees a lot of autonomy, but it makes it harder when people leave.

tl;dr - leave if it's the right choice for you. Don't burn bridges, signal clearly that you're happy to help them make the transition as painless as possible, and then it's their job to figure it out.

Somewhat different take: It sounds like you would like the job more if it were differently shaped - maybe that's an issue that you could fix (ie. if the problem is that the cyber teams you're semi-managing see the global roles as an impediment to their real work, then that's a real gap between head office and local needs. That might be a really interesting problem to try and solve, and could be way more satisfying while still existing in your scope. You've got very little to lose if you're already leaving, why not try to do the best work you can in the space you're in).

I'm using term "under compensated" in a very general sense.

If a small company is basing their function around an individual's skills, they had better compensate that person well either with money, shares, or benefits. Sometimes the benefits can be time for your own projects, additional autonomy, whatever.

But it's still mismanagement if the company can't handle that person leaving. And it's never the employee's fault that the company doesn't have succession worked out.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

You have FU money. 

Thus, you have OPTIONS.  I assume you have good healthcare without your job in Japan = more options!

FIRE does not necessarily have to be a binary decision.  Find a way to work part time on your passion.  Maybe teach a cyber security class at the local college/adult distance learning thing.  Go into consulting.  Are there small businesses that can't afford a full time IT staff in your area?  In Houston we still have some small Mom and Pop style computer shops.  They do repairs such as recover/replace hard drives, install RAM, virus/malware removal, and some light IT consulting with small businesses.

Or pivot again.  Take up a third career shift into something that fascinates you.  AI/LLM?  Does that (AI) have a need for security people (surely it does!)  Or be a Barista or staff at a local microbrew part time.  What is FUN to you?  Minimum wage would fine in your situation.  Just live your best life. 

OR

If you really are that essential, NEGOTIATE and I mean FIERCELY.  They gonna tell you NO and hurt your widdle feewings?  Turtle up already. 

[erp]

I'm tempted to say that a lot of roles which are hard to fill are also just very badly formulated (ie. the role is trying to do a bunch of unrelated things, or requires some sort of unusual blend of skills which the current employee holds but are highly atypical). There's an old saying that if you keep hiring smart and competent people who keep failing to do the job, the problem is the job not the people.

In small companies it's normal to have the role defined by a specific person's skills and interests, and those roles are almost categorically badly formed - I once knew a "sys-admin/bicycling coordinator/HR rep" and that's an impossible job scope. This too is the company's problem - the solution to this sort of issue is "hire two or three people" not "hire one swiss army knife employee who miraculously can solve all these issues". I like working for this kind of small company, because it means they're likely to be flexible and give employees a lot of autonomy, but it makes it harder when people leave.

tl;dr - leave if it's the right choice for you. Don't burn bridges, signal clearly that you're happy to help them make the transition as painless as possible, and then it's their job to figure it out.

Somewhat different take: It sounds like you would like the job more if it were differently shaped - maybe that's an issue that you could fix (ie. if the problem is that the cyber teams you're semi-managing see the global roles as an impediment to their real work, then that's a real gap between head office and local needs. That might be a really interesting problem to try and solve, and could be way more satisfying while still existing in your scope. You've got very little to lose if you're already leaving, why not try to do the best work you can in the space you're in).

I'm using term "under compensated" in a very general sense.

If a small company is basing their function around an individual's skills, they had better compensate that person well either with money, shares, or benefits. Sometimes the benefits can be time for your own projects, additional autonomy, whatever.

But it's still mismanagement if the company can't handle that person leaving. And it's never the employee's fault that the company doesn't have succession worked out.

100% - I agree with your comments completely (and I think I didn't state that clearly enough). I really like the framing of 'undercompensated' to describe the trade between the company and the job responsibilities.

For me, I benefit from extra autonomy and projects even if there's not a lot of money in it for me (ie. the extra autonomy and work is part of my personal compensation, even though that sounds completely insane when I write it down). But it's undeniably a weird role, and anytime the company needs to re-hire/replace employees, they need to reformulate at least a few (and maybe many) different roles. Most of the places I've worked have managed those changes incredibly badly.

[Skinnyneo]

First things first: You own the company nothing. This is a professional relationship, nothing more. There's nothing wrong with quitting if the job isn't a good fit.

That said, if you quit I would not lie about your health as an excuse. Be honest about your concerns and they may be willing to modify the position to keep you, which is a win-win. If not, you were going to quit anyway so no problem.

Something else to consider: From your description it sounds like you're in a great position. This is a key role they desperately need and have had difficulty filling. In other words, this could be a great opportunity. Show them you can do the job and do it well, even if this means you're underpaid for a year or so. Then negotiate a promotion and comp increase. You could leverage this into a quick jump in net worth over the next few years, assuming of course this is interesting to you. If not, just FIRE and don't worry about it.

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, I think I get too involved sometimes. I like my immediate team, but the management parts of the job are not what I was expecting. I thought I would be more hands on but it is very high level cyber security.

You are right, and I shouldn't lie about my health, and I should have been more descriptive. At this point my health is stable but my numbers are certainly showing I am in a bad area. Now if my numbers stay like they are I could live another 40-50 years. But if they start to turn south, well then. I honestly don't know how things will go and if they do go south I don't want to regret not giving myself however much time I spend at the job with my family. As we have FU money, my partner will continue to work, and Japan provides a good safety net (and the weak yen for now is a bonus as FU money is USD) it seems like a no brainer.

I realize I am answering my own question here, but still, I have a sense of guilt over leaving the job for what I am considering a "selfish" reason.

[Skinnyneo]

You have FU money. 

Thus, you have OPTIONS.  I assume you have good healthcare without your job in Japan = more options!

FIRE does not necessarily have to be a binary decision.  Find a way to work part time on your passion.  Maybe teach a cyber security class at the local college/adult distance learning thing.  Go into consulting.  Are there small businesses that can't afford a full time IT staff in your area?  In Houston we still have some small Mom and Pop style computer shops.  They do repairs such as recover/replace hard drives, install RAM, virus/malware removal, and some light IT consulting with small businesses.

Or pivot again.  Take up a third career shift into something that fascinates you.  AI/LLM?  Does that (AI) have a need for security people (surely it does!)  Or be a Barista or staff at a local microbrew part time.  What is FUN to you?  Minimum wage would fine in your situation.  Just live your best life. 

OR

If you really are that essential, NEGOTIATE and I mean FIERCELY.  They gonna tell you NO and hurt your widdle feewings?  Turtle up already.

Thank you! Yes, I like this! And I do think I would find my way back into CS in some manner be it pentesting or bug hunting. But my main issue is just getting out of the job in the first place. As you mention I should try to negotiate, but in the end I don't want them to negotiate back! :) I think I just need to reframe the situation as not "breaking up with someone" but it is a job and I can leave.

[Metalcat]

First things first: You own the company nothing. This is a professional relationship, nothing more. There's nothing wrong with quitting if the job isn't a good fit.

That said, if you quit I would not lie about your health as an excuse. Be honest about your concerns and they may be willing to modify the position to keep you, which is a win-win. If not, you were going to quit anyway so no problem.

Something else to consider: From your description it sounds like you're in a great position. This is a key role they desperately need and have had difficulty filling. In other words, this could be a great opportunity. Show them you can do the job and do it well, even if this means you're underpaid for a year or so. Then negotiate a promotion and comp increase. You could leverage this into a quick jump in net worth over the next few years, assuming of course this is interesting to you. If not, just FIRE and don't worry about it.

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, I think I get too involved sometimes. I like my immediate team, but the management parts of the job are not what I was expecting. I thought I would be more hands on but it is very high level cyber security.

You are right, and I shouldn't lie about my health, and I should have been more descriptive. At this point my health is stable but my numbers are certainly showing I am in a bad area. Now if my numbers stay like they are I could live another 40-50 years. But if they start to turn south, well then. I honestly don't know how things will go and if they do go south I don't want to regret not giving myself however much time I spend at the job with my family. As we have FU money, my partner will continue to work, and Japan provides a good safety net (and the weak yen for now is a bonus as FU money is USD) it seems like a no brainer.

I realize I am answering my own question here, but still, I have a sense of guilt over leaving the job for what I am considering a "selfish" reason.

Yep, out society conditions us to believe that doing things primarily for our own benefit is "selfish," which is batshit insane.

I would do some deep reflection on why on earth you are feeling its "selfish" to do the extremely normal thing of leaving a company.

ALL employees leave. It's a given, they all leave. Even the ones who die at their desks leave. It is literally the ONLY universal thing about each and every employee who has ever worked for anyone in any role. They leave.

Also, your job is someone's dream. You leaving allows someone else to fulfill their hopes and ambitions. The company doesn't need YOU, it needs someone who can do the job well. And yeah, whoever takes over isn't likely going to be as good as you, but you yourself likely weren't as good as you are now when you started.

Again, that's incredibly normal.

You're feeling guilty about the ridiculously normal life cycle of employees at a company.

Lastly, even if your guilt was valid, it's not a reason not to do something. I've felt legitimately guilty several times in my life for leaving partners who were perfectly lovely people, but I just wasn't getting what I needed from them.

Should I have stayed with my ex, lovely person, and gotten married and had a mediocre, but respectful marriage just to avoid feeling guilty about hurting them by breaking up with them??

Guilt should point you to examine a decision, but it doesn't dictate decisions. Breakups are the natural life cycle of courtship. Employees leaving is the natural life cycle of companies. Yes, harm is caused along the way, but that doesn't mean staying is the answer.

[mistymoney]

good luck figuring this out.

As I contemplate potentially quitting in 2025, I have some guilt too, but also embarrassment! I am not even really an early retiree, but I feel embarrassed. I'm super private about things, and maybe it is this feeling like 1) I would have to admit to not being poor. then people would think I have money, and I won't know how much money they think I have! 2) It is really calling attention to oneself! maybe that is it?

I don't fully understand it myself, but emotions can be weird.

You (and I!) just need to do what we need to do for ourselves, and everyone else is going to have to figure it out. If not now, then 1-2-3- years down the road......we can't stay in job forever, so might as well pull plug when best for your own self!

[jfer_rose]

In my experience on this forum, it is quite common for people to experience some form of guilt when they contemplate quitting. The exact form of that guilt varies but some sort of guilt it is common. I experienced it myself and it weighed heavily for a bit. But I worked through it and am loving my post-FIRE life. In my opinion, this guilt is something worth examining but also worth working through.

My guilt was related to the fact that my career was something that I perceive to make the world a better place. So I felt guilty about not doing it anymore. News flash, there are plenty of people still doing what I used to do and I don’t need to be one of them to benefit from their work. And I am now finding other less stressful ways to make the world a better place.

[scottish]

I went into IT a few years ago and generally enjoy it. I decided to specialize in cyber security and enjoyed the study and prospects of getting a job in it. I pulled off getting a job February of this year.

From the description and interviews it seemed the job would include my previous management experience in that I would be collaborating with teams across the globe. Cool no problem, as long as there is cyber security in there as well I am down. For them I think the position is hard to fill as someone with cyber skills/management skills and fluent English is a little hard to find even in Tokyo.

Fast forward to today and I feel like the job is cyber-lite at best. The bulk of the job is coordinating with global teams, and now we are ramping up to start projects with the teams. Another thing to note, most of the global teams are not super keen on this "collaboration." From my observation they see it as getting in the way of their daily job. So moving forward I see nothing but a slog of convincing teams to participate as the company tries to incorporate the cyber teams into a global team instead of smaller separate teams. I don't really feel this is what I signed up for, and I should be getting paid more like a high level manager than a beginner cyber security salary.

Bonus is paid out in December and I am thinking of quitting and going FIRE in January.

I'm early 40s and we have about 1.2MM NW with no kids. My partner will continue to work. They enjoy their job.

Problem is I am feeling guilty about doing this. Last year I had some major health issues (nothing job or stress related just some unfortunate circumstances) and I am thinking of lying and saying these health reasons have come back worse and that is why I am going to quit. I worry this may trigger their damage control and they start to offer a LOA, etc. At the same time I feel guilty telling them this job was just not what I had thought it was going to be and I don't see that changing.

The prospect of "everyday is Saturday" does also excite me. :)

Can anybody releate or just covince me that I owe them nothing and should do what I want?

Metalcat is right.   If they're only paying you an entry level salary for this kind of job, they're deliberately taking advantage.

Trying to coordinate a bunch of international teams that don't want to be coordinated is a shitty job (at least it was for me) and it's pretty hard to be successful.    If you thrive on sorting out organizational chaos across multiple timezones, it's one thing.     If you want to do something technical, it's a completely different story.     I'm assuming you see no way to get back to the technical role you wanted?    Get your bonus and hand in your resignation.     Life is too short to spend it doing something you hate.

[eyesonthehorizon]

In my experience on this forum, it is quite common for people to experience some form of guilt when they contemplate quitting. The exact form of that guilt varies but some sort of guilt it is common. I experienced it myself and it weighed heavily for a bit. But I worked through it and am loving my post-FIRE life. In my opinion, this guilt is something worth examining but also worth working through.
...

I don’t feel confident of this but I have speculated that it’s partly the shape of the economy & society’s understanding of itself as zero-sum at work here. If you’re conditioned to think your wellbeing or advantages come at someone’s expense, & the someone doesn’t appear to be you (honestly, FIREing can be pretty easy for those above a certain income-to-COL threshold that many people here surpass!) it’s easy to cast around for who must be paying for your party. We may spin off the guilt on any number of explanations, attributing it variously to survivor’s guilt, letting a team down, possessing advantages out of proportion to effort relative to others.

I’d be curious to compare how individuals handle a similarly unequally distributed advantage in more communal societies.

I’d probably go the hard honest route in OP’s place if I wanted to negotiate to keep the job I thought I’d signed up for but cite unspecified other plans as my reason for departing if not. Leaving work was the easy part in my case - I was fed up before the terms were changed on me. I just wished I could bring others along. In either case congratulations on having the choice open to you!

[Skinnyneo]

Metalcat

Your confidence is enviable! And I agree my guilt is most likely very misplaced. I wonder if it also a coping mechanism as I worry that I am making the "wrong decision" (I realize there are just decisions not right/wrong ones, but the mind is a strange thing). More and more I see the next few months coming into view and it has me quitting.

Mistymoney

You are right. We just need to do what we need to do for ourselves. We are all here for a limited time and I'd rather spend an awkward 10-15 minutes with my supervisor tell them I am quitting then months or years doing a job I am not fully satisfied with. I do worry they will ask "what are you going to do!? How are you going to live?!" I know it will be because my colleagues are genuinely worried, but I in now way could tell them it is because we have a NW that will support me leaving.

Jfer rose

Thank you for the news flash! As you and others have said I am probably standing in the way of someone who may really want to do this job and I should make it available to them. I am happy to hear your guilt subsided and you are enjoying post-fire life.

Scottish

Yes, I suppose they are in taking advantage. I will know for sure when I see the bonus payment in December. Once I have that I can see what I was actually paid out this year. I also plan to take a high level certification exam in December. If I pass I know that I am being underpaid as holders of this certificate make at least 20% more than I do now.

Unfortunately, I do not see a way back to the technical role because there really wasn't on there in the first place. There is a little bit of it doing some triage of incidents, but it isn't working with the actual hardware like I had thought cybersecurity would be about.

You are right on that the coordinating international teams is not my idea of fulfilling. In addition I have a suspicion my bonus next year may be tied to the success of integration of the teams and that's not something I want.

To all commenters

Thank you very much. I can't say I am 100% guilt free but you have helped me reframe my situation. I can't say exactly how things will go, but looking forward I am exicted to see how it will conclude.

[Metalcat]

Metalcat

Your confidence is enviable! And I agree my guilt is most likely very misplaced. I wonder if it also a coping mechanism as I worry that I am making the "wrong decision" (I realize there are just decisions not right/wrong ones, but the mind is a strange thing). More and more I see the next few months coming into view and it has me quitting.

Not sure what part you are interpreting as "confidence," but it's probably coming from many, many years of working in a professional capacity with respect to when and how people leave their jobs, and the guilt they feel about that.

I've touched on this personal and professional issue from many angles during my varied collection of careers along the way. Most notably, I've been the *you* as an employee, and I've been the executive losing employees like you. Oh, and I retrained and am now the therapist who primarily works with people who prematurely leave their careers, so yeah, I handle this specific topic in a lot of ways, lol.

The key is not to try and assuage the guilt, but to understand it. Where is it coming from and what is the fear that underpins it?

The key is to figure out if the drives motivating the guilt are useful to you or not.

[wistful]

I can relate to the feeling guilty part.  I just fully FIRE'd at 55 and I have some guilt pangs as well.

I think this is only natural (and even more so at your much younger age).  However, there are very rich ways to enjoy your life and benefit others at the same time, if you want to blend in some charitable work.  These charitable endeavors might lessen your feel of guilt and build up some sense of pride that your hard work has enabled you more time to give back to society.  Of course that would go along with all of the free time you'll now have for yourself for any other personal endeavors that catch your fancy.

There is always the option of downshifting to less than .50 FTE.  This might 1/2 the guilt you feel. :)

Take time to make your decision and enjoy life in the meantime.

Congrats on your success so far in life.

[Skinnyneo]

I can relate to the feeling guilty part.  I just fully FIRE'd at 55 and I have some guilt pangs as well.

I think this is only natural (and even more so at your much younger age).  However, there are very rich ways to enjoy your life and benefit others at the same time, if you want to blend in some charitable work.  These charitable endeavors might lessen your feel of guilt and build up some sense of pride that your hard work has enabled you more time to give back to society.  Of course that would go along with all of the free time you'll now have for yourself for any other personal endeavors that catch your fancy.

There is always the option of downshifting to less than .50 FTE.  This might 1/2 the guilt you feel. :)

Take time to make your decision and enjoy life in the meantime.

Congrats on your success so far in life.

Thank you! This is great advice and volunteering is one aspect I have considered but have not yet looked into deeply. Unfortunately I still need to tell my supervisor I am quitting first, which right now is what I am dreading the most. He is very nice and the other member of the team is also great. But the more I think about it the more I need to do it.

In the end I need to do what is right for me. Thank you for your kinds words on success. It is another reason I think I need to leave. I have a very very rare opportunity and I think I should take it, otherwise what has all the hard work been for?

[Car Jack]

You owe no company anything.  They'll dump you in a second if they decide they want to.  Don't feel guilt about considering leaving or when you do leave.

But first.....you don't plan to leave.  You look for another job.  You find a job that's a much better fit.  You interview THEM to be sure what you want is what they're offering.  Then when they make their offer, if it all is what you want, you accept with a lead time.  You hand in your resignation with that lead time as your notice time. 

The End.

[Skinnyneo]

You owe no company anything.  They'll dump you in a second if they decide they want to.  Don't feel guilt about considering leaving or when you do leave.

But first.....you don't plan to leave.  You look for another job.  You find a job that's a much better fit.  You interview THEM to be sure what you want is what they're offering.  Then when they make their offer, if it all is what you want, you accept with a lead time.  You hand in your resignation with that lead time as your notice time. 

The End.

Hi Carjack,

Thank you for the dose of reality. As kind as my team members (and even managers), yes I think if I am start to "not fit" they would kick me to the curb. I need to remember this.

I might be making this my last stop at full time employment so I think I'd be volunterring, chilling, or persuing hobbies that may become a business later on. 

[curious_george]

I don't really feel this is what I signed up for, and I should be getting paid more like a high level manager than a beginner cyber security salary.

Tell them this, then give them two months or whatever is appropriate to compensate you according to the role you are performing.

If they don't give you the money and job title to go along with your role then everyone understands why you quit - and its a *very* common reason that people quit. No reason to feel guilty - people leave companies all the time because they aren't paid according to the role they perform.

[Skinnyneo]

I don't really feel this is what I signed up for, and I should be getting paid more like a high level manager than a beginner cyber security salary.

Tell them this, then give them two months or whatever is appropriate to compensate you according to the role you are performing.

If they don't give you the money and job title to go along with your role then everyone understands why you quit - and its a *very* common reason that people quit. No reason to feel guilty - people leave companies all the time because they aren't paid according to the role they perform.

Yes, I think I will tell them this, but I am not sure even if they offered me more money that I would takeit. At the end of the day it isn't the job I want. I am also thinking I may still bring up the health issue as it is a real concern. I'd rather quit and be wrong and have 40 years of life, instead of staying and find out I have 3-5.

[markbike528CBX]

Question:

Is this a Japanese company or an American company in Japan?

The culture of quitting is likely different. 
An American company wouldn’t much notice your leaving, while switching jobs/early retirement might be seen as a negative comment of a Japanese company.  Other, say European companies might be on a continuum between those points.

I have also noticed that you have been in the job a relatively short time, so the hiring manager might feel put out by your leaving.

In any of those cases, it is not your problem.

No matter what the company culture, if you don’t communicate your issues, don’t expect anyone else to be aware of those issues.

[Skinnyneo]

Question:

Is this a Japanese company or an American company in Japan?

The culture of quitting is likely different. 
An American company wouldn’t much notice your leaving, while switching jobs/early retirement might be seen as a negative comment of a Japanese company.  Other, say European companies might be on a continuum between those points.

I have also noticed that you have been in the job a relatively short time, so the hiring manager might feel put out by your leaving.

In any of those cases, it is not your problem.

No matter what the company culture, if you don’t communicate your issues, don’t expect anyone else to be aware of those issues.

100% a Japanese company.

I agree that quitting a Japanese company is a different ballgame. Many Japanese may consider keeping their head down and moving forward. However, with my health issues and not being raised Japanese I feel obligated to my family to seriously consider where I will be spending my time.

I think you are correct that the hiring manager may be the MOST put out. I am not trying to toot my own horn, but finding someone with the necessary skills and circumstances and willing to take the salary they offer will be hard. I have been with the team since the start of the year, and will be there a little more than a year with my planned exit date. It is short, but also long enough for me to know if it is something I want to do long term.

At the end of the day if my leaving brings down the company they had bigger issues. It will set them back, but I am sure they will carry on.

[Aethonan]

Just posted this to FU Money Stories and feeling like the OP and I are made from the same cloth.  I have always felt tremendous guilt leaving/saying no to jobs.  All of the recasting as "they're in it for the money too" doesn't help when there's a personal connection.  See last para for my own takeaway on what helped.  Good luck @Skinnyneo --  I feel your pain :-)

I feel like this thread might need to become "LOL no thanks money stories."  I have a few examples in declining order of significance, as our stash solidified:

1. 6 months into BigLaw job, realized we could handle a long-term FIRE plan without the insane work schedule; walked away from the firehose of cash and moved from HCOL to MCOL area without anything lined up; we'd built that cushion.  I felt shitty walking away from my one good supervising attorney though.  She was great.
2. With help from recruiter, got great offer from rare big firm in new city; BUT during interviews, got privately warned off by multiple associates telling of volatile bosses and tons of weekend work.  Declined the offer.  I felt the worst about letting the recruiter down.  He was so sad.
3. Few years later the stash had really solidified to where we didn't need anything more to cover basic expenses.  Local law firm was fine, but supervising attorneys loved to flaunt bad work/life balance.  Who brags about working weekends/evenings?  Who claims they're busy in a "meeting" when it's a salon appointment?  Who claims they spent all weekend editing something when the timestamped redlines are all from Monday morning??  Like, if you're going to lie about overworking (?!?!?!) do it better.  Still, a couple folks were really great and told me I'd be a shareholder if I stuck it out a few more years.  In other words... I could take over their busy/stressed lives in exchange for more money.  I resigned instead.  I cried on the call when I told them I was leaving (because I still hate disappointing people), but I did it.
4. Ended up getting some enticing contracting offers in the years since, and we've been using it to pad the stash, indulge in more expensive hobbies, and just generally feel a bit "luxe" or whatever.  Recently though, I noticed I was dreading Mondays again -- even with a paltry amount of work to do in a week (think 15 hours).  Since we haven't been withdrawing and the market has been doing its thing, we're in a better position than when I originally called it quits back in 2021.  So I decided one client is enough and I've cut everything else.  An in-house offer here, another client there, and I keep thinking, "More work and less time gardening/gaming/reading/whatever?  LOL no thanks."  Still, whenever I think about those over-worked in-house folks who desperately need competent support, do I feel guilty?  Yes of course.

I guess I wanted to share this because the idea of "FU money" has always given me hives because of the implied conflict... and as someone who struggles with over-the-top people-pleasing tendencies (see above), I've felt truly shitty each time I've used our financial stability to say no to someone.  The practice has helped.  DH's total indifference to other people's judgment has helped more.  The thing that helped the most?  Knowing that I'm a much nicer spouse and friend when I'm using our financial stability to set those boundaries and walk away from bad situations.  I have the emotional bandwidth to be a better friend and show up for people when they need it.  Am I swapping one kind of people pleasing for another?  Sure am.  But I sure am happier this way. :-)

[Skinnyneo]

Just posted this to FU Money Stories and feeling like the OP and I are made from the same cloth.  I have always felt tremendous guilt leaving/saying no to jobs.  All of the recasting as "they're in it for the money too" doesn't help when there's a personal connection.  See last para for my own takeaway on what helped.  Good luck @Skinnyneo --  I feel your pain :-)

I feel like this thread might need to become "LOL no thanks money stories."  I have a few examples in declining order of significance, as our stash solidified:

1. 6 months into BigLaw job, realized we could handle a long-term FIRE plan without the insane work schedule; walked away from the firehose of cash and moved from HCOL to MCOL area without anything lined up; we'd built that cushion.  I felt shitty walking away from my one good supervising attorney though.  She was great.
2. With help from recruiter, got great offer from rare big firm in new city; BUT during interviews, got privately warned off by multiple associates telling of volatile bosses and tons of weekend work.  Declined the offer.  I felt the worst about letting the recruiter down.  He was so sad.
3. Few years later the stash had really solidified to where we didn't need anything more to cover basic expenses.  Local law firm was fine, but supervising attorneys loved to flaunt bad work/life balance.  Who brags about working weekends/evenings?  Who claims they're busy in a "meeting" when it's a salon appointment?  Who claims they spent all weekend editing something when the timestamped redlines are all from Monday morning??  Like, if you're going to lie about overworking (?!?!?!) do it better.  Still, a couple folks were really great and told me I'd be a shareholder if I stuck it out a few more years.  In other words... I could take over their busy/stressed lives in exchange for more money.  I resigned instead.  I cried on the call when I told them I was leaving (because I still hate disappointing people), but I did it.
4. Ended up getting some enticing contracting offers in the years since, and we've been using it to pad the stash, indulge in more expensive hobbies, and just generally feel a bit "luxe" or whatever.  Recently though, I noticed I was dreading Mondays again -- even with a paltry amount of work to do in a week (think 15 hours).  Since we haven't been withdrawing and the market has been doing its thing, we're in a better position than when I originally called it quits back in 2021.  So I decided one client is enough and I've cut everything else.  An in-house offer here, another client there, and I keep thinking, "More work and less time gardening/gaming/reading/whatever?  LOL no thanks."  Still, whenever I think about those over-worked in-house folks who desperately need competent support, do I feel guilty?  Yes of course.

I guess I wanted to share this because the idea of "FU money" has always given me hives because of the implied conflict... and as someone who struggles with over-the-top people-pleasing tendencies (see above), I've felt truly shitty each time I've used our financial stability to say no to someone.  The practice has helped.  DH's total indifference to other people's judgment has helped more.  The thing that helped the most?  Knowing that I'm a much nicer spouse and friend when I'm using our financial stability to set those boundaries and walk away from bad situations.  I have the emotional bandwidth to be a better friend and show up for people when they need it.  Am I swapping one kind of people pleasing for another?  Sure am.  But I sure am happier this way. :-)

Wow! Yes, I could feel the stress building up just based on your quick descriptions. But I think you hit the nail on the head with "All of the recasting as "they're in it for the money too" doesn't help when there's a personal connection." When people say "The company doesn't care." I agree 100%. However, the company is not who I fear disappointing. It is THE PEOPLE I work with I feel guilty leaving in a tough spot. My supervisor is great and he, like many, have been with the company for decades. I don't think he is necessarily "just in it for the money."

I appreciate your reply. It has given me more to think about over the next few months.