The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Post-FIRE => Topic started by: G-dog on February 18, 2015, 05:43:36 PM
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So, how did you announce your retirement/FIRE at work to your boss and/or colleagues?
This is freaking me out - I don't want to burn any bridges (vs. I want to arrange a flash mob dance routine to 'take this job and shove it!').
I don't want to lie, but and also don't feel any need to be completely forthcoming. I am not leaving for another job with a direct competitor, so they don't need to know anything else.
Because I can 'retire', i cannot give just 2 weeks notice (will have to give at least a month).
I am dreading the interrogation from colleagues. - though a few already know of my plan.
So if this was difficult for you - how did you handle it/ any advice?
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Boss and I were in conference in his office and he was telling me about a project that was going to be mine. I was going to give 2 weeks notice the coming Monday but decided it wasn't fair to let him pencil me in on a project I wouldn't be starting so I told him I was giving him two weeks notice. It was a little awkward and he wanted to know what was wrong. I told him the truth. Nothing was particularly wrong, it was that nothing was particularly "right" and since I didn't find work emotional fulfilling and I could afford to live off investments, that is what I was going to do.
So they got 2.5 weeks notice. And I had to discuss my plan with increasingly higher levels of management roughly daily and convince yet another person that I wasn't in any way disgruntled. I was just retired. At 40. [Don't look at me like that; I'm not bullshitting you.] Most coworkers didn't know until about an hour before I left when I sent an email to those I wanted to stay in contact with.
Then they collected my things and escorted me out of the building because after seven years on the insider roster, I couldn't be trusted not to steal a coffee maker on the way out or something like that.
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Doing this on Monday. (eeeeeeeeeekkkk!)
I originally thought about just going in and informally discussing my resignation, but I have a proposal for a longer notice period to facilitate handing off a large and complicated monthly project (in exchange for some considerations) and I got myself all tongue-twistery when I was practicing what I wanted to say and realized I'm sure to get flustered and maybe say something stupid. I don't have a strong relationship with my boss, so I would rather make it more formal and lay everything out succinctly so as to avoid any awkwardness or misunderstandings.
So I just sat down and wrote out a resignation letter.
There is lots of "grateful for the experience and it was a pleasure working here" stuff as I feel it silly to burn bridges even if I never see that place again. It says nothing about why I'm leaving (retiring early/burnt out/need to concentrate on family) - my standard short and sweet response is going to be "It's been great, but I just think it's time to move on and try something new."
I'll ask to meet with the main boss, hand over the letter to discuss, and have a copy to go to my team as well (and will meet with them directly after, so they are also aware of what I'm proposing) and then ask for a decision within a day or so on whether they'll go for my longer notice proposal, or don't want to meet my requests and therefore default to the standard two week notice.
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I'm just going to leave this bit here. Mostly because I want to see what my thoughts are now, versus what they will be in ~4 years when I do catch FIRE. Coming from a place of 'Fuck You' is super powerful, and I am there now, but it'll be interesting to see how that changes as the years go by.
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I'm nervous about this too...haven't quite figured it out yet. I've considered
enjoyed working here, time for me to move on, but I'm taking a long break first
taking a few years off from working
taking the summer off before evaluating what I want to do next
We had a person quit recently and he refused to say why or what he was doing next...made me wonder if he was FIREing.
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I eased my boss into the idea of me leaving over a couple of months worth of fireside chats in his office and when traveling together on work trips. He was not at all surprised when I walked in to his office and handed him my notice paperwork for him to sign.
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I was just a lowly factory worker, with a combined time of 20 years working there, since I was 17.
Lots of people with 40+ years working there.
It was common knowledge that my supervisors knew I was retiring soon.
I gave them 2 week written notice.
My last week I worked 4pm-12 midnight.
All my co-workers kept saying, I'd be gone by now (Friday night @ 11:45)
So I went into my supervisors office, handed in my tools, employee swipe card, thanked him for being an easy supervisor to work for,shook his hand and went home.
At age 50, I retired (4.5 years ago)
My advice,
when possible, talk about your plans to retire early, so it isn't a shock
Give them plenty of notice,if your job position will take time to replace
Say thank you when you leave.
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When we ER, we're going to hedge our bets a bit by framing it as "A 1-2 year career break." That is because while we assume that ER will be a permanent choice, we don't know, and we want to leave the door cracked open for future job offers.
At least for a while.
I'm definitely planning on hedging my bet when I quit my job. I do some consulting work on the side, so when I quit I'm just going to tell them that I'm leaving to focus on that. Which I will, I just won't mention that I'll still only focus on it 4-5 hours per week. I'm young enough and the world uncertain enough that it's worth a lot to me to leave in a way that will make my current company likely to hire me in the future if need be.
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I don't understand the reluctance to tell people the truth in these situations...it would never occur to me to be anything but totally straightforward with my employers about why I was leaving. I fully intend to tell my employers that I'm retiring when I give my FIRE notice.
Am I missing something that I should be thinking about?
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While I didn't quit my last job to go into retirement - I did quit it after hitting my "stage 1" FI level where I have investments that can cover a bare minimum expense level. My original plan was to quit to freelance part time. Instead a different full-time opportunity came up that is low stress, pays well, helps build contacts for future freelancing and let's me travel on someone else's dime. I had a really good relationship with the last boss so I was up front with him about everything, including my future plans. I basically have an open offer to return to my old position in either a full or part time capacity anytime I want it. With the new job, I'd known my new boss for many years before taking the job and plan on being just as open and up front with him too.
Part of that is probably me working for small companies (at my last job my boss was one of the owners) - but really, once you have that ability to walk away from a job worry free, why bother lying? I don't see why it would burn a bridge or cause any issues.
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So I did this earlier in the year. It wasn't great timing for the firm, but they had made certain changes that made me loathe to hang in there longer.
I decided to give a little over three weeks notice, as a courtesy - which I regret. I wish I had given them only two weeks. My boss asked me not to tell anyone right away so that she could prepare a few people. But gossip traveled quickly and rumors flew. By the time I made an official announcement, everyone already knew.
I was asked to work 60 hour weeks until I left (no paid overtime).
My direct manager stopped speaking to me. Not a word for three weeks. He wouldn't even say hello in the hall.
Instead of attempting to secure an appropriate replacement, they reassigned all of my work to two of my overburdened coworkers.
I definitely did not need to throw in an extra week of awkwardness.
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I don't understand the reluctance to tell people the truth in these situations...it would never occur to me to be anything but totally straightforward with my employers about why I was leaving. I fully intend to tell my employers that I'm retiring when I give my FIRE notice.
Am I missing something that I should be thinking about?
Even if you are not ER'ing, many mangers feel offended when someone resigns. Bring ER into the picture and jealousy becomes a real issue as well. The whole idea of "softening the blow" is to keep the door open in the event you ever need employment again.
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I don't understand the reluctance to tell people the truth in these situations...it would never occur to me to be anything but totally straightforward with my employers about why I was leaving. I fully intend to tell my employers that I'm retiring when I give my FIRE notice.
Am I missing something that I should be thinking about?
Even if you are not ER'ing, many mangers feel offended when someone resigns. Bring ER into the picture and jealousy becomes a real issue as well. The whole idea of "softening the blow" is to keep the door open in the event you ever need employment again.
Meh, I think this is pretty overblown. As a manager, I'd much rather have someone be straightforward with me than dance around questions I'm asking about future plans. If my boss isn't grown-up enough to handle having an employee leave it's not my problem to soften the blow. As for future employment, I'm happy relying on my skills to earn myself a job.
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So I did this earlier in the year. It wasn't great timing for the firm, but they had made certain changes that made me loathe to hang in there longer.
I decided to give a little over three weeks notice, as a courtesy - which I regret. I wish I had given them only two weeks. My boss asked me not to tell anyone right away so that she could prepare a few people. But gossip traveled quickly and rumors flew. By the time I made an official announcement, everyone already knew.
I was asked to work 60 hour weeks until I left (no paid overtime).
My direct manager stopped speaking to me. Not a word for three weeks. He wouldn't even say hello in the hall.
Instead of attempting to secure an appropriate replacement, they reassigned all of my work to two of my overburdened coworkers.
I definitely did not need to throw in an extra week of awkwardness.
How did I miss this! Was there a thread?
At any rate, congratulations!
Sorry things didn't go well. Never feels good to leave on a sour note. Our policy asks for 30 days notice. I am planning on giving it in order to preserve relations if possible, but I do anticipate a little animosity. Not as bad as yours, but several years ago we had a restructure that changed who I reported to, my then manager was pretty agressive about milking as much as he could out of me in the 60 day notice they gave us. Well fast forward a bit and yet another restructure, and I am working for the same manager once again. The good news is that he is 64 and I am hoping he might anounce his own retirement pretty soon.
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I was asked to work 60 hour weeks until I left (no paid overtime).
For me, that would be a "did I say two week notice? I really meant two minute notice" moment. I mean, when you've already told them you don't need the job, they pick then to try to exert leverage over you? It makes no damn sense!
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I told my boss about 14 months before we first planned to leave because the timing was perfect - we were in the middle of the budget process for 2015 and the could have built another salary/benefits package in the budget to hire someone to start January 1 and have the whole year to train with me (it's a complicated job with different events/meetings each month). It's now 4 months later and they haven't done anything.
We recently decided DH can retire in July instead of December so I convinced my boss to let me work the last half of the year remotely. Told him if he would let me do that (so we can move out of state to our beach condo), we could wait until January 2016 to hire my replacement and I would contract to train them remotely. He's under big budget pressures this year and hiring anyone to replace me was not going to be easy (since it wasn't planned for as I first thought they would.) He liked the idea and agreed.
So now we're looking at leaving in July versus December and, even though I'll still be working until the end of the year, we'll get to wake up on the beach every day. So really, my boss' indecision and hesitation paid off for me in the long run! :)
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Not meaning to sound dense, but why is it anyone's business to know that you are planning to ER? Is there any reason NOT to tell people that you are quitting your job to explore other options? Especially if you are mulling over the possibility of returning to work at the same place (either on a part-time or full-time basis).
Maybe I would feel differently if I worked in a familial place and everyone is best friends with the boss and co-workers. However, I would still be afraid to trumpet my plans to ER in a work setting. The last thing I need is to have people thinking/speculating/gossiping that I was wealthy or had acquired a massive inheritance. All they need to know is that I'm leaving my job. My long-term plans and financial situation are no one's business.
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Not meaning to sound dense, but why is it anyone's business to know that you are planning to ER? Is there any reason to tell people that you are quitting your job to explore other options? Especially if you are mulling over the possibility of returning to work at the same place (either on a part-time or full-time basis).
Maybe I would feel differently if I worked in a familial place and everyone is best friends with the boss and co-workers. However, I would still be afraid to trumpet my plans to ER in a work setting. The last thing I need is to have people thinking/speculating/gossiping that I was wealthy or had acquired a massive inheritance. All they need to know is that I'm leaving my job. My long-term plans and financial situation are no one's business.
I guess I agree that it's nobody's business...but my point is that I see no downside to telling people. Once I retire I fully expect to never see a single one of my co-workers again...so I don't expect they're going to be asking me for money. Who gives a shit what they think?
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In a perfect world I wouldn't give a shit, either. I do favor honesty as a general rule, but that doesn't mean my whole life has to be an open book. Call me paranoid, but it's a safety issue. You have to protect yourself from people who might try to target you for nonsense lawsuits, etc.
One of the threads on this forum (can't remember the title) discussed whether the outside world views mustachians as "poor" because we are not lavish spenders. It generated a lot of participation. I know my friends think I have no money. And I'm quite happy for people to have that impression of me...I enjoy flying under the radar :)
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Call me paranoid, but it's a safety issue. You have to protect yourself from people who might try to target you for nonsense lawsuits, etc.
I will call you paranoid on this one...I guess I think more highly of my co-workers than you do.
Edit - I have to admit...I don't even understand this concern, so maybe I'm missing something. What type of lawsuit are you worried about?
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How did I miss this! Was there a thread?
At any rate, congratulations!
Thanks. :) I didn't post a thread.
Call me paranoid, but it's a safety issue. You have to protect yourself from people who might try to target you for nonsense lawsuits, etc.
I will call you paranoid on this one...I guess I think more highly of my co-workers than you do.
Edit - I have to admit...I don't even understand this concern, so maybe I'm missing something. What type of lawsuit are you worried about?
I am friends with a former coworker who left the same firm that I just left and she said that the reaction to her leaving was extremely negative. They gave her a few papers to sign and slipped in there was an agreement not to compete (she had notified them of her intention to start her own business in the industry). She noticed and refused to sign it. And then they threatened to sue her if she stole any clients. She told them to go for it - our clients are free to hire who they please.
Nothing came of it. She did take a bunch clients.
No such shenanigans occurred when I quit. But I guess I should count myself lucky that all I got was the silent treatment from a grown man in a professional setting. ;)
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Call me paranoid, but it's a safety issue. You have to protect yourself from people who might try to target you for nonsense lawsuits, etc.
I will call you paranoid on this one...I guess I think more highly of my co-workers than you do.
Edit - I have to admit...I don't even understand this concern, so maybe I'm missing something. What type of lawsuit are you worried about?
I am friends with a former coworker who left the same firm that I just left and she said that the reaction to her leaving was extremely negative. They gave her a few papers to sign and slipped in there was an agreement not to compete (she had notified them of her intention to start her own business in the industry). She noticed and refused to sign it. And then they threatened to sue her if she stole any clients. She told them to go for it - our clients are free to hire who they please.
Nothing came of it. She did take a bunch clients.
No such shenanigans occurred when I quit. But I guess I should count myself lucky that all I got was the silent treatment from a grown man in a professional setting. ;)
Clearly...I think it's a 100% different situation if you're leaving to join (or in this case become) a competitor of your former employer. I'm just talking about flat out retiring, never to work again. I would actually prefer it if nobody ever talked to me while I was at the office, so the silent treatment would be excellent :-)
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I don't understand the reluctance to tell people the truth in these situations...it would never occur to me to be anything but totally straightforward with my employers about why I was leaving. I fully intend to tell my employers that I'm retiring when I give my FIRE notice.
Am I missing something that I should be thinking about?
I think it's similar to the fact that some people are comfortable telling people their net worth/income/whatever, and some aren't. If I tell my boss, co-workers, distant family, etc. that I'm ER, they can make some educated guesses as to my stash, and that makes me uncomfortable. I'm not sure exactly why it makes me uncomfortable, but it does.
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I'm concerned about giving too much notice and having them decide to let me go before the income events I'm holding out for.
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my concerns have to do with a forced ranking performance review process (I.e. Early notification could impact bonus a pay raise), being in a niche profession and industry (in case I decide/need to go back to a similar job), being a private person (I don't really want to entertain coworker queries), and ingrained guilt (feel the need to 'justify' the decision).
I am likely overthinking this - that is sort of my 'process'.
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I'm okay with my job now and not planning to FIRE anytime soon but I've had to extricate myself from situations in the past.
I want to throw this out there for anyone in a difficult situation where the brutal truth might not be best:
"After much prayer, meditation, and soul searching, God is clearly telling me to start a new phase of life. What that will be, I am not sure - but I will not argue with God."
I've gotten some funny stares with people when I pull this one out - but to date no one has suggested that this isn't the 'real' reason. No one has suggested that I argue with God, either. As the conversation is just between me and God, no one can argue for or against it.
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For me, I'd be vague enough and call it a sabbatical.
Part of the reason is that in case the totally unexpected happens and the plan fails, I don't want to be eating humble pie.
Also, retiring "early" will bring out the worrier in family and friends that would think I have gone nuts and don't really have a good plan. They would have good intentions, but they would drive me nuts with constant advice.
I also prefer to keep humble than be boasting that I would never have to work again. Because, honestly, who among us can guarantee that? Expenses may rise unexpectedly due to health or some catastrophe. I am not vain enough to think I can control all parts of my life.
People know I've made some financial moves lately to protect me from a major layoff. I keep mentioning this is why I paid off my mortgage (to people's surprised eyes...how can you do that in your 40s?) and am cutting costs. I also keep saying I'd like to do something different with my life. I've pre-laid the foundation for my future layoff so people know I'll be OK financially for a while.
Then after a year or two I can assess how it's going and maybe change my story a bit.
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I have a habit of being blunt, so I guess I don't recommend my method of setting the stage for resigning.
Before I decided to ER, I was actively looking for work. Couldn't take the office's dysfunction or the insecurity of my boss anymore. His insecurity manifested itself in the need to try to control everything, and to automatically assume that only he could be correct about any decision. In reality, he came across as second generation "Peter Principled". My peers and I just nodded our heads at him and then did what we thought was best. He never seemed to figure that out.
Anyway, back on subject, I was called in to his office sometime in April 2014 to discuss my "personal plan", i.e. to hear what he wanted me to work on for my personal and professional development in the coming year. Pay depends on meeting all the "goals", behaviours, and milestones that get incorporated into the plan.
After he'd prattled on for a couple of minutes, I realized that I couldn't stand going through the motions and just blurted out that my plan was to leave the organization. The meeting ended about 5 seconds later.
About a week later, I obtained the CV calculation of my pension buy out and, after assessing our other investments and living expenses, decided to retire instead.
A little less bluntly this time, I informed the director of HR that I had decided to retire, but would stick around until the end of the upcoming audit busy season ( I was the Audit Engagement Leader for three Ministries). That face-to-face meeting was followed-up with a written notice.
Felt good to have the decision formalized.
Al
PS: Anyway, don't be afraid of this, you're in the drivers seat throughout this process
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I told my boss several times during the summer that I would be retiring at the end of September. She was good natured about it. I didn't fill out the paperwork until August 25th so she had 5 weeks notice. Stopped by today-they have 5 people in my department instead of 4 in my day. So I really was doing the work of 2 men (Laurel and Hardy).
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This thread has reaffirmed one thing for me: only give two weeks. My husband once gave three weeks and then his boss barely spoke to him, and they still didn't have a replacement figured out before he left. Also, thanks to someone's story above - be specific - it's not 2 weeks, it's 80 hours of work that you are giving.
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This thread has reaffirmed one thing for me: only give two weeks. My husband once gave three weeks and then his boss barely spoke to him, and they still didn't have a replacement figured out before he left. Also, thanks to someone's story above - be specific - it's not 2 weeks, it's 80 hours of work that you are giving.
I don't know, this should probably depend on your relationship with your employer. I gave 10 weeks notice at my last job and I wasn't even retiring. The nature of the work was big, long projects and I was in a key position that I knew would put them in a difficult spot to lose. I also had (and still have) a very good relationship with the owners of the company.
At the same time, the employer I had before that was prone to walking people to the door when they gave their notice so I was reluctant to even give them 2 weeks.
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This thread has reaffirmed one thing for me: only give two weeks. My husband once gave three weeks and then his boss barely spoke to him, and they still didn't have a replacement figured out before he left. Also, thanks to someone's story above - be specific - it's not 2 weeks, it's 80 hours of work that you are giving.
I don't know, this should probably depend on your relationship with your employer. I gave 10 weeks notice at my last job and I wasn't even retiring. The nature of the work was big, long projects and I was in a key position that I knew would put them in a difficult spot to lose. I also had (and still have) a very good relationship with the owners of the company.
At the same time, the employer I had before that was prone to walking people to the door when they gave their notice so I was reluctant to even give them 2 weeks.
Yep. My immediate boss and I are friends. I really have no desire to give the FU and walk out on him.
We've talked a bit about my saving and my desire to retire. On my last review he asked what my goals were for the year and I said "to retire before my next review." We talked about it a little.... and moved on.
A couple of weeks later I flat out asked "How much notice do you want? I think I am ready."
He said 6 months. Now... there is always the possibility that those above him will decide to walk me out before then... but... that's on them. If they don't need me: I'll be okay with it.
My date is set now for Independence Day. I compute that to be 81 work days (less vacation, holidays, etc.)
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This thread has reaffirmed one thing for me: only give two weeks. My husband once gave three weeks and then his boss barely spoke to him, and they still didn't have a replacement figured out before he left. Also, thanks to someone's story above - be specific - it's not 2 weeks, it's 80 hours of work that you are giving.
I don't know, this should probably depend on your relationship with your employer. I gave 10 weeks notice at my last job and I wasn't even retiring. The nature of the work was big, long projects and I was in a key position that I knew would put them in a difficult spot to lose. I also had (and still have) a very good relationship with the owners of the company.
At the same time, the employer I had before that was prone to walking people to the door when they gave their notice so I was reluctant to even give them 2 weeks.
Yep. My immediate boss and I are friends. I really have no desire to give the FU and walk out on him.
We've talked a bit about my saving and my desire to retire. On my last review he asked what my goals were for the year and I said "to retire before my next review." We talked about it a little.... and moved on.
A couple of weeks later I flat out asked "How much notice do you want? I think I am ready."
He said 6 months. Now... there is always the possibility that those above him will decide to walk me out before then... but... that's on them. If they don't need me: I'll be okay with it.
My date is set now for Independence Day. I compute that to be 81 work days (less vacation, holidays, etc.)
Congrats, Spork. I knew you were close, didn't know you'd made it official.
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When my husband quit, he was friends with his boss. They joked all the time, went out to lunch together. When he gave notice, it was awful. Silent treatment. Really awkward. The guy asked for more time, my husband arranged it with the new company to give it to him, and then the boss gave him the silent treatment. Was really frustrating.
On the other hand, I've quit places and given loads of time - 1 month or more. It's been my experience that it doesn't really help my employers. They still don't have a replacement ready, and they still leave the transition stuff left till the last few days. All it does for me is make the time feel super long because when I am done, I just want to leave.
You all can do what you want, and I get the project aspect for some jobs - doesn't really apply to us. I'm not one to burn bridges, (and have been rehired by places I've quit, multiple times) but I'm kind of done going over board with giving notice when people don't actually use that to their benefit. Two weeks is plenty, in my opinion, plus if there's a bad reaction (which was totally out of left field for us at my husband's previous job!) it decreases the awkward time. YMMV.
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Yep. My immediate boss and I are friends. I really have no desire to give the FU and walk out on him.
We've talked a bit about my saving and my desire to retire. On my last review he asked what my goals were for the year and I said "to retire before my next review." We talked about it a little.... and moved on.
A couple of weeks later I flat out asked "How much notice do you want? I think I am ready."
He said 6 months. Now... there is always the possibility that those above him will decide to walk me out before then... but... that's on them. If they don't need me: I'll be okay with it.
My date is set now for Independence Day. I compute that to be 81 work days (less vacation, holidays, etc.)
Congratulations! And I am glad you have such a good relationship with your immediate boss, makes the transition easier and more pleasant.
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It's been my experience that it doesn't really help my employers. They still don't have a replacement ready, and they still leave the transition stuff left till the last few days.
Same here. I'm really not sure why many employers even bother asking for a notice.
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Congrats, Spork. I knew you were close, didn't know you'd made it official.
Thanks. It's still not well known around the office. Only my boss and VPs seem to know. I'm okay with that.
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It's been my experience that it doesn't really help my employers. They still don't have a replacement ready, and they still leave the transition stuff left till the last few days.
Same here. I'm really not sure why many employers even bother asking for a notice.
Ditto. I've always given 2 weeks notice, and nothing related to the transition is requested until the last few days.
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I told everyone (boss, coworkers, friends, family) the truth. We're taking a long sabbatical to do non-work things. We don't know when we'll go back to work, or if it will even been in the same industry, but I liked my job and would appreciate the opportunity to work there again in the future. We've saved a bit and have a financial plan but will play it by ear.
Any more info than that would have served no productive purpose and likely done more harm than good. Hard declarations of wealth or retirement were (and remain) completely unnecessary. The goal was to maintain relationships as they were, just without the work commitment. It's worked out very well.
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I had been telling my coworkers and boss that I was going to retire in June, but once I decided to do that, I was getting really cranky thinking about working until then and decided to up it to April.
I was originally going to stay on contingent/reserve, but after finding out that some things had changed and were discussed on a day that I was not working and no memo or anything was sent out, I decided that I had had enough and was going to just retire permanently. My boss seems to be jealous and actually said she didn't remember me giving her my retirement date on paper! I gave her another one stating that I was retiring, not going contingent.
One of my friends at work who is a year older than me (61), actually told me that he just signed a two year lease on a car, so he has to work 2 more years! My frugal side was appalled! I just couldn't imagine making myself work 2 more years for a car!
Thank goodness I have saved my money and don't have to stay longer than necessary.
Miss Prim
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It's been interesting to read everyone's attitudes towards telling bosses/co-workers about retiring early. I have to say, I'm surprised there's so much reluctance and pussy-footing in this crowd. I still have years ahead of me, but I envision the day I make my plans known as one of the happiest days of my life. We'll see if I still feel that way when it's time to pull the plug.
So far, I have given notice to three different employers in my career. I gave 1 month, 1 day, and 3 weeks notice, respectively. The '1-day' notice was absolutely the worst employer I've even had. I actually went to work that morning fully intending to give 2 weeks notice, but when I walked into my manager's office, I just said fuck it and told him I was gone at the end of the day. I haven't seen or spoken with him since, although I did fantasize about taking a dump in his company car for some time afterwards. I found out a couple of years later that he was fired a month after I quit.
The other two employers were awesome. My co-workers and managers were genuinely happy for me, and there was no awkwardness at all. I was happy to put in more than the standard two weeks to make the transition easier for them. I'm actually pretty curious to find out how my co-workers react when I when I announce my plans to retire early, rather than just leaving for another company.
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I have to say, I'm surprised there's so much reluctance and pussy-footing in this crowd.
It's the same psychological factors that drive OMY syndrome. Lots of us (myself included) start out saying "the second my stash hits 25x my expenses, fuck that, I'm pulling the FIRE ripcord!" Then, as we actually approach FIRE, self-doubt starts to creep in, and we want a little more cushion. I think it's partly the same factor that is causing people to get "pussy-footed" and walk on egg shells to avoid burning bridges when they do pull the FIRE trigger. Too bad, because it generates fewer epic "FU, I quit!" stories for our voyeuristic reading pleasure.
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When I was two years from FIRE I wanted to shout it from the rooftops. It was all I thought about, and working towards the finish line was a big part of my identity.
About a year out, I chilled out a bit and started to really think beyond quitting. I was fully confident in my plan and no longer desired affirmation from others. And I became more sensitive to, like it or not, how my words and actions might affect my relationship with people I care about.
When I finally reached my goal, there were no fireworks. It was more peaceful and surreal than storybook magical. The next Monday was simply the first free day of many. We never really felt any need to celebrate or proselytize. Just to live our lives every day as we see fit.
Today, looking back, I view silent confidence not as pussy-footing but as the ultimate display of strength.
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I have to say, I'm surprised there's so much reluctance and pussy-footing in this crowd.
It probably depends on the kind of reactions you've received when you quit in the past. I've quit 3 jobs and was fired from one. Only one of those four scenarios was handled well by all parties. The rest were awkward as balls.
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I told everyone (boss, coworkers, friends, family) the truth. We're taking a long sabbatical to do non-work things. We don't know when we'll go back to work, or if it will even been in the same industry, but I liked my job and would appreciate the opportunity to work there again in the future. We've saved a bit and have a financial plan but will play it by ear.
Any more info than that would have served no productive purpose and likely done more harm than good. Hard declarations of wealth or retirement were (and remain) completely unnecessary. The goal was to maintain relationships as they were, just without the work commitment. It's worked out very well.
Planning to do the same. My boss is one to pry and is very good at it. I have promised myself that I will not get lulled into oversharing.
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I've been thinking a lot about why I don't want to say "I'm retiring." I think some of the reason is I'm not 100% sure I'll never go back to work, there are so many unknowns in the future. And I'm also a quiet person and I don't want to deal with all responses I imagine getting "you're too young to retire" "did you win the lottery" whatever. At the moment I'm thinking I'll say something like "I'm leaving the workforce; I don't know if or when I'll return." Because that's really the truth of it.
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Today, looking back, I view silent confidence not as pussy-footing but as the ultimate display of strength.
Just wanted to say: I really like this perspective.
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The more I think about it, I think your perspective should match the relationship you have with your employer and co-workers. Personally, I know for sure that after my last day I probably won't ever see a single person from my office again for the rest of my life...except maybe by chance. So I don't really care what they think of me and how they perceive my exit.
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I am planning on giving 2 weeks notice when the time comes, as that is what is expected and standard. My boss and I have been friends for over 15 years, there will be no issues. We have openly discussed our respective investment strategies and retirement plans many times. It will be a peaceful parting.
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I'm close to my boss. I gave an extended notice (about 6 months) and went to great lengths to minimize any disruption. Also our FIRE involves shifting countries, which creates a very easy storyline for the exit and to avoid the issue of RE.
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I hated everything about my job, but I resisted the urge to FU and walk out. I never said a word, to anyone, about my plans to ER. I wasn't close enough to any of my coworkers or bosses to talk about it. So I simply gave 2 weeks notice, as was required, signed a document swearing that I wasn't going to work for a competitor for two years and left at the end of two weeks. No one really asked about future plans and I didn't volunteer because I didn't give a crap what any of them thought. And, obviously, none of them gave a crap about me because they didn't ask. I was simply another cog in their machine, easily replaced with a newer model cog.
I did tell my friends what I was doing and they were mostly supportive, if dubious. No one was mean, just kind of curious. But, here I am 11 years later (I ER'd at 33) and they've grown accustomed to my eccentric self. No one bats an eye anymore when I say I'm off on some crazy trip, or pursuing some weird project.
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...signed a document swearing that I wasn't going to work for a competitor for two years and left at the end of two weeks.
Did they give you some money to do this?
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...signed a document swearing that I wasn't going to work for a competitor for two years and left at the end of two weeks.
Did they give you some money to do this?
Nope. The non-compete was in place when I was hired, so there was no additional money. I just had to reaffirm my understanding. It's pretty standard in my industry.
Normally, I would have refused or negotiated it downward a bit, but I knew that that job was my last stop on the corporate road when I took it. It was kind of a unique situation. The salary was high enough that I knew I'd hit FI quickly and would, for at least two years after, not be looking for another job because I was already making travel plans. So I just "took the money and ran," as it were. It was a job and a means to an end. Nothing more.
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My advice,
when possible, talk about your plans to retire early, so it isn't a shock
Give them plenty of notice,if your job position will take time to replace
Say thank you when you leave.
Generally good advice. But, I worked in an industry that when people quit (rather than retire) they are often shown the door right away (the industry was trading, where they don't want you familiar with positions after you've shown your intent to leave.
So, one problem I see is people simply not believing you are retiring and figuring you just don't want to say what you are actually doing.
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I too have concerns about being shown the door sooner than I planned - my timing is related to $ event at work that I don't want to be excluded from by leaving sooner. It seems unlikely I'd be walked out early, but it's not worth the $ risk to me. I have already seen one person walked out with no notice, for a reason that I wouldn't have thought would cause firing.
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Technically...
I should have been shown the door immediately as I was on the "Financial Insiders Roster" and policy dictated they just cut me a check and cut their exposure by having security walk me to the car and then mail me any 'stuff' left behind at the office. They had me finish out two weeks anyway. It was a low drama exit.
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I don't understand the reluctance to tell people the truth in these situations...it would never occur to me to be anything but totally straightforward with my employers about why I was leaving. I fully intend to tell my employers that I'm retiring when I give my FIRE notice.
Am I missing something that I should be thinking about?
Even if you are not ER'ing, many mangers feel offended when someone resigns. Bring ER into the picture and jealousy becomes a real issue as well. The whole idea of "softening the blow" is to keep the door open in the event you ever need employment again.
Meh, I think this is pretty overblown. As a manager, I'd much rather have someone be straightforward with me than dance around questions I'm asking about future plans. If my boss isn't grown-up enough to handle having an employee leave it's not my problem to soften the blow. As for future employment, I'm happy relying on my skills to earn myself a job.
Agreed.
It seems that some of those that are going to RE have a need to observe that they're leaving will elicit a strong reaction. That somehow, one's "value", is reflected in the magnitude of their employer's response. Yes, it can cause concern and surprise, but it is rare that one person's leaving causes much issue. It takes very little time usually for one who has gone to be forgotten. Out of sight out of mind.
No one is irreplaceable.
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It seems that some of those that are going to RE have a need to observe that they're leaving will elicit a strong reaction. That somehow, one's "value", is reflected in the magnitude of their employer's response. Yes, it can cause concern and surprise, but it is rare that one person's leaving causes much issue. It takes very little time usually for one who has gone to be forgotten. Out of sight out of mind.
No one is irreplaceable.
I think this is 100% spot on.
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I told my boss several times during the summer that I would be retiring at the end of September. She was good natured about it. I didn't fill out the paperwork until August 25th so she had 5 weeks notice. Stopped by today-they have 5 people in my department instead of 4 in my day. So I really was doing the work of 2 men (Laurel and Hardy).
Funny!
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I just had "the talk" with my boss. I have a great deal of respect for her and my place of work. I also have lots of nosey co-workers. I have tried to help them or encourage them and organized a free Dave Ramsey program, etc. Not many of them get it. So - when an email is sent out that I am leaving, I'd love to say, when they ask - that I am able to do this because of ideas like Dave's and MMM but, really, folks don't REALLY want to know. They are just nosey!
I don't know what I am going to say when the email goes out but one thing I will say is that I want to spend time with my family. I am 45 and have worked hard to get where I am. The first question in, "how many properties do you own?" My husband's canned response is, "not enough!"
I will see people I work with after retirement so I gave a notice for as long as they need me......small community, great non-profit. My heart believes in what we do so I want to make sure my leaving doesn't interfere with it negatively.
Bottom line, it really isn't anybody's business......
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One of my friends at work who is a year older than me (61), actually told me that he just signed a two year lease on a car, so he has to work 2 more years! My frugal side was appalled! I just couldn't imagine making myself work 2 more years for a car!
I just read this and I feel exactly the same. I was telling my wife a couple of months ago we went out for a work function and 2 of the more highly paid people were talking about this nice car that cost something like $200k. I just thought to myself what a waste of your life to be working for that.
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One of my friends at work who is a year older than me (61), actually told me that he just signed a two year lease on a car, so he has to work 2 more years! My frugal side was appalled! I just couldn't imagine making myself work 2 more years for a car!
I just read this and I feel exactly the same. I was telling my wife a couple of months ago we went out for a work function and 2 of the more highly paid people were talking about this nice car that cost something like $200k. I just thought to myself what a waste of your life to be working for that.
To me, stuff like that is doubly sad because the $200,000 car is not twice or $100,000 more effective as the $100,000 car. At that point, it's more of a status symbol than anything. So they're working so they can show off how much they make.
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One of my friends at work who is a year older than me (61), actually told me that he just signed a two year lease on a car, so he has to work 2 more years! My frugal side was appalled! I just couldn't imagine making myself work 2 more years for a car!
I just read this and I feel exactly the same. I was telling my wife a couple of months ago we went out for a work function and 2 of the more highly paid people were talking about this nice car that cost something like $200k. I just thought to myself what a waste of your life to be working for that.
To me, stuff like that is doubly sad because the $200,000 car is not twice or $100,000 more effective as the $100,000 car. At that point, it's more of a status symbol than anything. So they're working so they can show off how much they make.
I just can't relate to people like that. That car would give me as much pleasure as my $5k car.
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Then they collected my things and escorted me out of the building because after seven years on the insider roster, I couldn't be trusted not to steal a coffee maker on the way out or something like that.
You'd be surprised or not by how often you're escorted out because they fear you'll be slick and cause a rebellion or something... It's kinda funny and ironic how most companies don't give a sh!t about you before but give a sh!t that you'll steal their stapler or say something slick on your way out!
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I mentioned my plan to retire to my boss yesterday at lunch. I told him I wanted to stay and do a really kick-ass job on a contract we're just starting (so RE would be 8 months away). He's a very thoughtful kind of guy. If I really want something from him, I'll mention it then wait a month or so and mention it again. By three months he generally brings it up as his own idea. This has worked time and again. I'd really like part-time/intermittent work because I LOVE what I do. I bet sometime this summer he comes up with the idea for me to become a contractor for the company. Wish me luck!
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Not ready to do it yet, but am probably 3-5 years away. I have, however given notice many times, and I too fall into the category of giving the standard two weeks, and providing minimal details.
When we relocated out of state for my husband's employer, I was working for a great company and felt obligated to provide them with 6 weeks notice, so they could hire and I could fully train my replacement. When I left, they hadn't even filled out a job requisition, so it didn't do them any good.
Hubby works in sales, and they traditionally show you the door the minute you give notice. As a result, the resignation letter specifically states the intent to give two weeks notice, and if they choose to terminate immediately, the expectation that they provide a paycheck for that 2 week time period. All but one employer has agreed to that.
As for us, when the time comes, since we own rental properties, we'll just say we are leaving to focus on our rental business. The less people know, the better. We are all replaceable and forgettable, so no need to create a stir or provide tons of detail.
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One of my friends at work who is a year older than me (61), actually told me that he just signed a two year lease on a car, so he has to work 2 more years! My frugal side was appalled! I just couldn't imagine making myself work 2 more years for a car!
I just read this and I feel exactly the same. I was telling my wife a couple of months ago we went out for a work function and 2 of the more highly paid people were talking about this nice car that cost something like $200k. I just thought to myself what a waste of your life to be working for that.
If it was a really nice car and they could drive it for years after retiring, and they really liked cars, ok. At least it would make some semblance of sense. But it was a lease!
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I feel like I have given my company 3 years notice. I was in my monthly meeting with my boss last week and we were talking career path for me. I brought up that in 2-3 years, my wife finishes school and I will be looking at phased retirement (I'll be 39) into a part-time career. My boss indicated there were no part time opportunites currently and likely would not be in 3 years. I advised I'd like to get some experience shadowing other jobs to find a potential career where I could contract or work a part-time schedule.
I don't have to worry much about it impacting my position. I get a small merit increase each year and do not want to "move up" to a higher level position in the next 2-3 years. Little chance of being let go. Like a lot of the posts I've read, my company has a hard time getting permission from corporate to hire, so if they let go of me, they'd just be short a person (which is a worse position). Even with 3 years notice, they will not interview until I've been out the door 2-3 weeks which is hard on my co-workers as it takes 4-6 months to train someone. However, my company (like most) is more worried about the bottom line than doing the right thing and having a replacement in place to keep work/life balances in tact.
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I feel like I have given my company 3 years notice. I was in my monthly meeting with my boss last week and we were talking career path for me. I brought up that in 2-3 years, my wife finishes school and I will be looking at phased retirement (I'll be 39) into a part-time career. My boss indicated there were no part time opportunites currently and likely would not be in 3 years. I advised I'd like to get some experience shadowing other jobs to find a potential career where I could contract or work a part-time schedule.
I don't have to worry much about it impacting my position. I get a small merit increase each year and do not want to "move up" to a higher level position in the next 2-3 years. Little chance of being let go. Like a lot of the posts I've read, my company has a hard time getting permission from corporate to hire, so if they let go of me, they'd just be short a person (which is a worse position). Even with 3 years notice, they will not interview until I've been out the door 2-3 weeks which is hard on my co-workers as it takes 4-6 months to train someone. However, my company (like most) is more worried about the bottom line than doing the right thing and having a replacement in place to keep work/life balances in tact.
That's funny...I was just thinking of this on my drive home today. I was wondering if my boss would ever ask me what my "5 year plan" was and if I would answer truthfully or not.
My company is also giving tiny merit increases and I'm not sure how likely they would be to let me go if I answer the question truthfully.
I'm on the edge of FIRE and was hoping for a layoff or voluntary severance package at some point. That possibility may no longer be on the table since my company has had a lot of attrition lately due to a lot of changes occurring. So after a bunch of layoffs it looks like we are hiring again. Sounds good in theory, but not if you're looking for a layoff.
So as in your case I thought the only way I can get myself on a layoff list in the future is if I answer the "5 year plan" question truthfully. If my boss thinks I'm not interested in sticking around for 5 years, maybe he'll put me high on that list at some point. I try to do a quality job, so underperforming to get laid off is not an option for me.
Some answers I thought to the 5 year question are:
- "Not here." (short and to the point)
- "I'd like to be doing something different in my life by then."
- "I plan to change careers by the time I am 50." (BTW, turning 50 is 4 years away for me - so within the 5 year range)
- "Maybe switch to part-time work." (this will really have him questioning keeping me around)
- "I'd like to take a leave of absence at some point in the next 5 years to take care of elderly parents." (sets me up to ask for a sabbatical at some point)
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amazing stories.. commenting here to see what else pops up!
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Now that the deed has been done here's how it went.
Last Weekend
I wrote my resignation letter, the main part of which said "I have an opportunity I can't pass up". I didn't go into any more details than that; the rest of the letter was just my end date, and some fluff about nice team, nice company, etc. I was happy my SO helped me come up with this wording. I'm a quiet person and didn't want to spend 2 weeks having people hammer me with questions/warnings about my decision to leave my career.
Yesterday
I brought the letter to work, ready to have the talk, and my boss emailed that she was sick and not coming in.
After debating what to do for a couple hours, I had the talk with HR instead, because I was concerned my boss could be out sick all week. I told her I had a great opportunity I didn't want to pass up. She assumed that meant "job opportunity", although she didn't ask for any details and I happily didn't provide any.
Today
I told my boss the same thing "great opportunity I don't want to pass up", and she made the same assumption, that it was a "job opportunity." She also didn't ask for details, fortunately, because I didn't plan to lie, but also didn't want get into any details for reasons stated above. She got teary eyed and later in the day told me she was sad and relies on me, and that she appreciates all the hard work I've done in the time I've been with the company. I was really relieved she didn't ask if she could talk me into changing my mind, or staying a bit longer.
After talking to my boss, I told my co-worker. He asked directly if I had a new job and I told him "no, I'm doing something different, but I don't want to spend 2 weeks answering questions about it so I'll tell you at the end." And if he asks me, I'll tell him, just before leaving.
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After talking to my boss, I told my co-worker. He asked directly if I had a new job and I told him "no, I'm doing something different, but I don't want to spend 2 weeks answering questions about it so I'll tell you at the end." And if he asks me, I'll tell him, just before leaving.
Oh, I like that! I'm going to keep that idea in my back pocket.
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This is not my story as we are still 5+ years from FIRE, but my husband texted me yesterday because his CEO's sister was going around the office handing out mimosas to celebrate her retirement. I haven't given it much thought yet, but I expect I will go out more quietly than that. :)
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It seems that some of those that are going to RE have a need to observe that they're leaving will elicit a strong reaction. That somehow, one's "value", is reflected in the magnitude of their employer's response. Yes, it can cause concern and surprise, but it is rare that one person's leaving causes much issue. It takes very little time usually for one who has gone to be forgotten. Out of sight out of mind.
No one is irreplaceable.
Best line I ever heard about leaving a company--
" Stick your thumb in a cup of water and pull it out. The hole left behind is how much you will be missed at work."
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"AlwaysBeenASaver" and I are on the same path, almost. I composed my resignation letter last Friday at work, and turned it in to my boss at about 3:30 (1 hour left). I prepped everything just in case I was going to be escorted out.
The Notice:
"The Talk" was super scary for me, I was shaking and emotional. I almost put it off again. I felt so bad about leaving this job after only 4 months, but myriad reasons (not the least of which is FI/RE) pushed my decision back from originally May 2016 to February, then to August, then to now. (Thanks to many of the MMM forum participants who, via a thread here, helped me gain clarity on the leaving-after-short-tenure issue!).
Of the many issues factoring into leaving this job, I only told him two. One, that my arm has had enough of 8 hours at the computer (repetitive stress), and two, that I'm leaving the workforce entirely--retiring.
He was a lot cooler than I expected, expressed he was sorry to lose me. He said he'd be angry if I were leaving to go work for someone else, but could fully understand my reasons. I expressed regret at wasting their time/training, and the inconvenience.
Once done, I walked to my desk and told my only remaining coworker (the other two had gone home).
Long Holiday Weekend:
A lot of time to reflect and think about what I had done, whether I had made a mistake, and how to get all the stuff like health insurance nailed down as an individual, followed by thoughts of knowing this is TOTALLY the right thing to do, imagining my new freedoms, imagining how my days might be, feeling relieved to no longer have to do tasks I hate doing.
I also wondered how weird or uncomfortable my next workday would be...
First Workday After Notice:
Nothing different than usual. I walk in, say hello like normal. My coworkers just did their thing. No questions. No reaction. Nothing. OK... I turned around toward them, thinking maybe I would mention it, but then thought better of it, and just started working. I feel weird walking around here.
Second Workday After Notice:
Still nothing. No comments, no indication that anyone has any knowledge of this. I have thoughts that maybe it was all a dream. Did Friday even happen?
Near the end of my workday, I approach the one coworker that I told right after having the meeting with my boss. I asked if he or the boss had told anyone. Coworker replied that he had told my small group right away on the Tuesday, and that the news had filtered out to everyone.
No one acts any differently. Not a peep.
Third Workday After Notice:
Still no acknowledgement from any coworker... I'm starting to get the idea that they're just going to ignore it. Kinda makes you feel like a ghost. hmmm... I guess I *am* a ghost.
+++
Don't get me wrong--I'm not *wishing* for acknowledgement or commentary. I just think it's *damned odd* that it's being completely ignored.
I have *6.5* more workdays (officially, according to my notice) I did offer to stay on a bit more, if they needed help training (they've not hired anyone)... but the way this is going I think they're just going to ignore it until I sail off into the sunset.
Is this what Big Corporate is like? (this is my first (and last/only) taste of Big Corporate.
Oh well. Counting down.
-The Pigeon
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The Pigeon:
I enjoyed reading your experience (so far) and I'm *so glad* you did it! The next 6.5 days will likely be equally strange, but eventually that will be over!
And yeah, "the talk" is scary. I still don't understand (for myself) why it was scarier to have the talk this time than any other time? I've left plenty of jobs so had "the talk" many times, and it's always uncomfortable but the anticipation this time was much worse, no idea why.
I work in big corporate too, but I'm not having quite the same experience of people acting like I'm not leaving, as you are, although it did seem really strange at first that my boss hasn't given me any directions as to whether to just keep working as always or to start transitioning stuff. I decided on my own this morning to not write any new code (I'm a programmer) but instead of start writing notes and so on to get things in a good state for someone to pick up where I left off.
My co-worker who I told is just acting normal, but really there isn't much else he can ask or do about it. As other people hear the news, a few have come by and commented or asked me "why". I don't think a lot of people have heard yet though. I don't have any desire to discuss it, so haven't told anyone myself that doesn't need to know. And I'm really glad I didn't say I'm leaving the workforce - I know this works for many people, but most people here work til they're 65+ and additionally people tend to guess I'm younger than I am, so it would have been super uncomfortable to get a bunch of "you're too young" and "you'll be bored" type stuff.
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So as in your case I thought the only way I can get myself on a layoff list in the future is if I answer the "5 year plan" question truthfully.
Daisy, my company has been through many phases of layoff's over the last few years. As a manager I was even in a position where I had one of my employees volunteer for a layoff. I would strongly advise caution if you plan to tell your boss you want to leave.
Picture this: I'm a manager who has the task of making a certain % of my team redundant. I have a pool of cash to ease their progress out of the door. I have to make the decision about who to let go - most of these people need their jobs, and will be screwed if I let them go. The pool of cash is never big enough. I feel bad about it. One of my people comes to me and says 'I'm thinking about leaving.' What do I do? I think "phew, Daisy wants to go, all these other people want to stay. She was going to leave even without the cash incentive. Great news, that's one fewer person I need to push, but I haven't spent a penny, I can share that around the ones that I have to let go unwillingly." Daisy gets no layoff cash.
Circumstances may be different in your company, but, as I say, approach with caution.
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So as in your case I thought the only way I can get myself on a layoff list in the future is if I answer the "5 year plan" question truthfully.
Daisy, my company has been through many phases of layoff's over the last few years. As a manager I was even in a position where I had one of my employees volunteer for a layoff. I would strongly advise caution if you plan to tell your boss you want to leave.
Picture this: I'm a manager who has the task of making a certain % of my team redundant. I have a pool of cash to ease their progress out of the door. I have to make the decision about who to let go - most of these people need their jobs, and will be screwed if I let them go. The pool of cash is never big enough. I feel bad about it. One of my people comes to me and says 'I'm thinking about leaving.' What do I do? I think "phew, Daisy wants to go, all these other people want to stay. She was going to leave even without the cash incentive. Great news, that's one fewer person I need to push, but I haven't spent a penny, I can share that around the ones that I have to let go unwillingly." Daisy gets no layoff cash.
Circumstances may be different in your company, but, as I say, approach with caution.
Huh? Why wouldn't you give the layoff package to one who wants to go? It makes it less painful for you as you have one less that you have to let go unwillingly. Unless you are saying that the person leaving gives you more money to distribute to the one fewer you have to let go?
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Well, Friday (4 days post-notice) was the day the co-workers "heard it through the grapevine," and finally a couple mentioned it to me. I had nice conversations with them, but other than that, it's pretty hush-hush here. This place is SO buttoned down, there's not any real social stuff, people pretty much come in, zombie-like, *maybe* say hello, and keep on working. I think there's a lot of fear here, at least I felt fear here in my tiny 4 months that I've been here. Most other places have had a jovial atmosphere, after all, we're all here in this hellhole together, so let's at least try to make each other's day tolerable. Here, it's like a bunch of automatons.
My boss and his management-underlings haven't said jack all to me since I gave notice. I'm a pariah!
So today is my LAST MONDAY. (Although I offered to stay and train a new person, but no new person has appeared, nor any rumble of a new person, so I think Friday will indeed be my last day as a working person). (!!!!)
Freaking out a little bit about it, but also looking forward to jumping off this hamster wheel--I'm a *PIGEON* not a hamster FFS!
I do hope that I just glide the hallways as a ghost for the remainder of the week. I do not want any party or send-off (Gawd, I hope they don't try to 'acknowledge' it)--On Friday I just want to quietly scuttle along the baseboards, rat-like, unnoticed, to the elevator, press the "L" button, drop my badge, push open the door and spread my wings.
4 days, 6 hrs, 42 mins until I jump into the FIRE.
!!!!!!!!!!
-Pigeon
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Yay for "last Mondays!" Looks like I'm on the same schedule as you. When I woke up this morning, the first thing I thought was "next Monday, I won't have to get out of bed this early!"
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Congrats and happy high-fives to you, AlwaysBeenASaver! Friday is gonna be good!
(It also appears that ARebelSpy is joining us for the big June 5 retirement party!)
On Friday let's all have a drink and toast each other's grand achievement from afar!
:-D
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Congrats and happy high-fives to you, AlwaysBeenASaver! Friday is gonna be good!
(It also appears that ARebelSpy is joining us for the big June 5 retirement party!)
On Friday let's all have a drink and toast each other's grand achievement from afar!
:-D
Sounds like a great idea to me!!
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My "talk" became an email because my boss is out on a work trip. So I returned from vacation, learned that the boss was not here, and sent the email with a more formal letter attached.
So, no drama. Email was acknowledged calmly. So, no angst or counter offers from the boss.
Telling Co-workers is the next stage of the process
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My "talk" became an email because my boss is out on a work trip. So I returned from vacation, learned that the boss was not here, and sent the email with a more formal letter attached.
So, no drama. Email was acknowledged calmly. So, no angst or counter offers from the boss.
Telling Co-workers is the next stage of the process
Congrats G-dog! Glad to hear it went so swell. And best wishes going forward.
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...Great news, that's one fewer person I need to push, but I haven't spent a penny, I can share that around the ones that I have to let go unwillingly." Daisy gets no layoff cash.
Huh? Why wouldn't you give the layoff package to one who wants to go? It makes it less painful for you as you have one less that you have to let go unwillingly. Unless you are saying that the person leaving gives you more money to distribute to the one fewer you have to let go?
Exactly. I have to cut my head count by 3 people. I have 12k to split between them. I discover that someone is about to leave voluntarily. Now I have 2 people to pay off. 6k each. Why would a company pay you to leave if you have told them you are going to leave anyway?
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...Great news, that's one fewer person I need to push, but I haven't spent a penny, I can share that around the ones that I have to let go unwillingly." Daisy gets no layoff cash.
Huh? Why wouldn't you give the layoff package to one who wants to go? It makes it less painful for you as you have one less that you have to let go unwillingly. Unless you are saying that the person leaving gives you more money to distribute to the one fewer you have to let go?
Exactly. I have to cut my head count by 3 people. I have 12k to split between them. I discover that someone is about to leave voluntarily. Now I have 2 people to pay off. 6k each. Why would a company pay you to leave if you have told them you are going to leave anyway?
Places I have worked have an actual policy where the payout isn't arbitrarily decided, but decided by a formula. The reasoning here is to develop a formula that can't be easily challenged in a lawsuit. So... volunteering to be in the layoff is usually a godsend for managers in that situation. (I've volunteered many times, but never been chosen.)
Often it isn't "I'm leaving anyway" ... it's "If you have to make someone leave, I won't be adversely affected. It's okay." So NOT giving me the package means I would have still been around (and was).
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So as in your case I thought the only way I can get myself on a layoff list in the future is if I answer the "5 year plan" question truthfully.
Daisy, my company has been through many phases of layoff's over the last few years. As a manager I was even in a position where I had one of my employees volunteer for a layoff. I would strongly advise caution if you plan to tell your boss you want to leave.
Picture this: I'm a manager who has the task of making a certain % of my team redundant. I have a pool of cash to ease their progress out of the door. I have to make the decision about who to let go - most of these people need their jobs, and will be screwed if I let them go. The pool of cash is never big enough. I feel bad about it. One of my people comes to me and says 'I'm thinking about leaving.' What do I do? I think "phew, Daisy wants to go, all these other people want to stay. She was going to leave even without the cash incentive. Great news, that's one fewer person I need to push, but I haven't spent a penny, I can share that around the ones that I have to let go unwillingly." Daisy gets no layoff cash.
Circumstances may be different in your company, but, as I say, approach with caution.
Well the point is moot now. I heard that with all of the attrition happening after all of the layoffs over the past couple of years, that now they are worried that too many people are leaving. I was told that there won't be any more lucrative voluntary packages, and that the involuntary ones may be changing. Who knows what it all means? They are now actively begging us all to stay and making it all sound so rosy and exciting for the future.
Meh...I don't have much more to go. I may just start being honest with my boss and letting him know that the future work assignments he has envisioned for me are not the types of assignments I want. He has already warned me what I'd be doing after my current project and it's not what I want to do. So I may take the risk of being honest with him in the hopes that it gets me a better next assignment. If he can't provide that, then I'll just stick around until the next layoff. I won't say it in such a direct form, but will try to proactively warn him that I won't be happy doing what he wants me to do and maybe it would be best if they would just let me go if that's what they have planned.
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So as in your case I thought the only way I can get myself on a layoff list in the future is if I answer the "5 year plan" question truthfully.
Meh...I don't have much more to go. I may just start being honest with my boss and letting him know that the future work assignments he has envisioned for me are not the types of assignments I want. He has already warned me what I'd be doing after my current project and it's not what I want to do. So I may take the risk of being honest with him in the hopes that it gets me a better next assignment. If he can't provide that, then I'll just stick around until the next layoff. I won't say it in such a direct form, but will try to proactively warn him that I won't be happy doing what he wants me to do and maybe it would be best if they would just let me go if that's what they have planned.
Consider checking out "How to Engineer Your Own Layoff" by Financial Samurai, www.financialsamurai.com. I have no relation to him and get no benefit, it just is a book (small book) specializing in the situation where you want to leave and they haven't given you golden keys to the exit door yet.
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Congrats to everyone who has successfully navigated this!
Around here there seem to be two ways people go:
1) Make the announcement many months or even years in advance, during "peak season" when everyone is around to here about it, ask you about, express their best wishes or ire, or
2) Make the announcement as late as possible with as little notice as possible, during "low season" when almost no one is around to ask about it.
Not sure which way I will choose. I've used essentially the same resignation letter twice before. It's short, polite, says thank you but nothing about my future plans beyond my last plan date of work. The whole "conversation with God" is a good idea, though, I might just go with that regardless of the timing.
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Well, even though I could inform my boss via email and avoid the Mano-a-Mano talk, she recently set up monthly 1:1 meetings with everyone and I 'get' to have a meeting this week. This was one of her goals this year, and she finally started in June.
This could be interesting. Apparently she told someone she is surprised that I am leaving/retiring, but she hasn't said anything to me ...... Yet.....
If anything interesting happens (actually unlikely), I'll report back.
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Well, even though I could inform my boss via email and avoid the Mano-a-Mano talk, she recently set up monthly 1:1 meetings with everyone and I 'get' to have a meeting this week. This was one of her goals this year, and she finally started in June.
This could be interesting. Apparently she told someone she is surprised that I am leaving/retiring, but she hasn't said anything to me ...... Yet.....
If anything interesting happens (actually unlikely), I'll report back.
Nothing very interesting, no questions, pretty much a non-event. I reported on my current priorities, including meeting with othe officer manager to make sure I do a good job mopping up my mess on the way out.
Offered a farewell party, and better yet accepted my answer when I opted out. I am not comfortable being the subject of large group focus in this scenario. I'll miss folks, many good people.
Another thing on my exits list is sending kudos to folks and their bosses. Plenty of people have done things to make my life easier along the way. I try to alert bosses on a timely way, but now I feel free to shovel on a thicker layer!
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Well, even though I could inform my boss via email and avoid the Mano-a-Mano talk, she recently set up monthly 1:1 meetings with everyone and I 'get' to have a meeting this week. This was one of her goals this year, and she finally started in June.
This could be interesting. Apparently she told someone she is surprised that I am leaving/retiring, but she hasn't said anything to me ...... Yet.....
If anything interesting happens (actually unlikely), I'll report back.
Nothing very interesting, no questions, pretty much a non-event. I reported on my current priorities, including meeting with othe officer manager to make sure I do a good job mopping up my mess on the way out.
Offered a farewell party, and better yet accepted my answer when I opted out. I am not comfortable being the subject of large group focus in this scenario. I'll miss folks, many good people.
Another thing on my exits list is sending kudos to folks and their bosses. Plenty of people have done things to make my life easier along the way. I try to alert bosses on a timely way, but now I feel free to shovel on a thicker layer!
This week a meeting showed up on my calendar with the head of the whole department. It is next week - what is this about? Four people have left from my section of the department in the last 14 months - 2 went to other jobs, the other 2 retired, no exit interviews for them. I think I may be the last Jenna piece pulled before the tower collapses....
Or it could be something else completely....
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Hmmm, the plot thickens. Usually it is HR who handles exit interviews, not the head of the whole division.
So, what could it be?
Could be to ask you why you are leaving.
Could be to ask you why other people have left.
Could be to get your honest opinion on a few things, now that you are leaving.
Could be to give you some inside information that he thinks might make you want to stay (A change in management, for example).
Could be to ask you to stay. If so, decide what (if anything) would entice you to stay. No ask is too outrageous. You don't need this job, after all. Maybe you would be willing to work part time at double or triple the wage? Maybe you would be willing to stay on as a consultant for $300 an hour?
Could be to tell you that you are making a big mistake (my friend had to endure one of these meetings).
Could be to invite you to a charity ball at his house ;-)
Whatever it is, good luck!
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Hmmm, the plot thickens. Usually it is HR who handles exit interviews, not the head of the whole division.
So, what could it be?
Could be to ask you why you are leaving.
Could be to ask you why other people have left.
Could be to get your honest opinion on a few things, now that you are leaving.
Could be to give you some inside information that he thinks might make you want to stay (A change in management, for example).
Could be to ask you to stay. If so, decide what (if anything) would entice you to stay. No ask is too outrageous. You don't need this job, after all. Maybe you would be willing to work part time at double or triple the wage? Maybe you would be willing to stay on as a consultant for $300 an hour?
Could be to tell you that you are making a big mistake (my friend had to endure one of these meetings).
Could be to invite you to a charity ball at his house ;-)
Whatever it is, good luck!
The charity ball would be fun!
Actually, they just announced a reduction in force. Also, because of "dotted line" reporting structure, the head of the department isn't really my boss's boss - so he isn't in any position to negotiate for me to stay or do contract work (except in a different role in his group).
I suspect that it is fishing for information - but being up front and honest in the past has resulted in no changes in the past, so I see no benefit now, other than maybe making things worse for those remaining. If he asks me direct questions, I'll likely be honest. Is he asks vague questions or open questions, I will be equally vague in response.
As much as I dreaded some of this, once you know you are leaving (all the control is in your court), it can be kind of entertaining.
The company has significantly decreased HR, at least certain functions. But who knows, while I am the only one I see on the invite, there could be a surprise guest too.
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I've really been enjoying this thread and hearing how everybody handled it.
I don't have a story of my own to contribute (yet?), but thought some of you may enjoy these two tales:
http://www.bravenewlife.com/04/retiring-early-a-final-update/
http://livingafi.com/2015/03/17/quitters-never-win-except-when-they-do-1/
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Hmmm, the plot thickens. Usually it is HR who handles exit interviews, not the head of the whole division.
So, what could it be?
Could be to ask you why you are leaving.
Could be to ask you why other people have left.
Could be to get your honest opinion on a few things, now that you are leaving.
Could be to give you some inside information that he thinks might make you want to stay (A change in management, for example).
Could be to ask you to stay. If so, decide what (if anything) would entice you to stay. No ask is too outrageous. You don't need this job, after all. Maybe you would be willing to work part time at double or triple the wage? Maybe you would be willing to stay on as a consultant for $300 an hour?
Could be to tell you that you are making a big mistake (my friend had to endure one of these meetings).
Could be to invite you to a charity ball at his house ;-)
Whatever it is, good luck!
The charity ball would be fun!
Actually, they just announced a reduction in force. Also, because of "dotted line" reporting structure, the head of the department isn't really my boss's boss - so he isn't in any position to negotiate for me to stay or do contract work (except in a different role in his group).
I suspect that it is fishing for information - but being up front and honest in the past has resulted in no changes in the past, so I see no benefit now, other than maybe making things worse for those remaining. If he asks me direct questions, I'll likely be honest. Is he asks vague questions or open questions, I will be equally vague in response.
As much as I dreaded some of this, once you know you are leaving (all the control is in your court), it can be kind of entertaining.
The company has significantly decreased HR, at least certain functions. But who knows, while I am the only one I see on the invite, there could be a surprise guest too.
General 'thank you' for years of service, may have been a general exit interview. Ask for tips for improvement. Mostly a non-event as I don't want to burn bridges