Author Topic: Friend/partner asked for money :(  (Read 7772 times)

Katsplaying

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Friend/partner asked for money :(
« on: May 09, 2017, 08:14:39 PM »
I have been in a 6-yr relationship with a married man with his wife's full knowledge and consent from the beginning. If that squicks you out, sorry, but it's relevant. Today he asked me for a loan of $1500-2000 to cover their late mortgage payment. Why late? Because their power bill was over $2k.

Background: I FIRE'd Dec 16, 2016 and am now on fixed income, unless I decide otherwise. My expenses are perfectly in line with my income, I have my emergency stash replenished after replacing a water heater tank, and I am so f*cking happy to be free I cannot believe how fortunate I am every g*ddam day.

I *have* been considering a new fridge and discussed those plans with my partner so he may have thought I had that money just sitting around but my plan is as always: to carry a product in a cart until I save for it and/or it goes on super good sale and rack up points on the cc (& then paying it off).

I said no to him. And explained my new reality: fixed income, assets seriously tied up/unavailable, etc. But now I'm angry that he put me in this horribly awkward position where if I spend anything I'll wonder if he's thinking "why didn't she help us?" and I'm left wondering if he'd already gamed out how this would mess with our connection and had to ask any way because they are that desperate? Which feels really crummy.

If this had happened before I FIRE'd, it'd be no problem as OT was so a thing at my job.

Our agreement has always been that we have our lives pretty separate: we get together at his private man-cave space/converted shop (that I keep clean & do laundry for) a couple times a week for a few hours of good times and then we go back to our lives. We're good friends and geek out on so many of the same things. We take one weekend a year together and see the occasional movie (ST, SW, of course). His wife has always had veto power over any aspect of this and has come to realize that I truly have NO intention of "stealing" her husband. She is partially disabled and would absolutely love to be able to be with him like I can and I get why that was terribly hurtful for her in the beginning and salute her desire to see him be happy. Physical fragility & disability happens to *everyone* sooner or later. Plan for it.

I do not in any way want any more details of their finances: that is NOT my business and I don't want any part of it. Yeah, a little resentful, too. I have occasionally encouraged him to MMM and her to Mrs MMM's etsy post as she's crafty & sells at some of the local bazaars. But people are who they are and the boundaries I thought we had were working fine.

Anyway, I apparently needed to get this rant out but I am genuinely interested in how others have handled requests from intimates/partners after they'd FIRE'd and instant money wasn't such an easy thing any more.

Cheers

 

cchrissyy

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2017, 08:31:57 PM »
oh, bummer!
 You did the right thing not sacrificing your financial security and planned purchases to rescue them. 
I think all you can do now is remind yourself that thankfully, their troubles are not your problem, and be glad you're not economically entangled in whatever went wrong over there. This is obviously just the tip of the iceberg. but don't worry about finding out the whole story, just keep yourself secure no matter what. good luck!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 09:59:29 PM by cchrissyy »

redrocker

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 09:14:05 PM »
Would you say you're emotionally invested? (I'd assume so but thought I'd go the introspective route.)

I learned the hard way (twice) that emotional investment with someone who has vastly different financial habits/goals leads to a messy entanglement. I get that it's a 6 year relationship so maybe your own personal finance chops have been sharpened substantially since then. I'd proceed with caution and aside from stating you're on a fixed income I wouldn't give any other financial information.

firelight

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 10:10:21 PM »
As redrocker said, keep your emotional investment to a minimum, thank your lucky stars you are not involved in their financial affairs and continue keeping your lives and finances separate. Also please don't feel guilty for not 'helping' out. Once you start, it's a slippery slope and there is no end. Further plan how you will counteract if it was for something more serious/emotional like bills for wife's illness, losing their house, car, etc. Always good to have a plan.

celticblue

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 04:03:41 AM »
This might possibly sound harsh so I will try to caveat it first .
I think all manner of adult relationships are possible when people behave in an adult manner . I respect the wife for recognizing that where some aspects of the physical relationship are no longer possible for her it can continue to be part of her husband's life. I see that as an act of kindness . And you seem to be behaving in a respectful manner .
But i do have a wtf moment for the guy. His wife is allowing him to have extra marital sex , you are providing it, and now he wants money from you ?!?
He must be a pretty charming guy to engineer all that , and it seems pretty great for him and not for everyone else .  So I would think very deeply about whether his charm is his skill for getting more from others than he gives to them.

MetalCap

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 07:00:57 AM »
My first thought was "Holy Shhhh" 2k power bill!  Are they running a Google Data Center?  Even when there was a full house with someone on a breathing apparatus 24/7 we were still in the 4-500's.

Villanelle

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 07:12:55 AM »
You agreed to keep your lives separate and keep this on a fairly casual level (from the sound of it) and yet he asked you for money to pay for his other life?  To me, that would be a major breech and I'd be seriously reevaluating things.

That said, if you want to continue the relationship, I'd let him know that the ask made you uncomfortable and you want to reiterate the "separate lives" thing and make sure you are both still on the same page.  If yo didn't have that part of your relationship, I'd suggest you offer to help look at his finances (and maybe help figure out WTF he has a $2000 electric bill!!) but in the context of your specific relationship, it seems like this would be inviting more boundary crossing and more blurring of that line that he's already smudged.

Optimiser

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 10:31:13 AM »
My first thought was "Holy Shhhh" 2k power bill!  Are they running a Google Data Center?  Even when there was a full house with someone on a breathing apparatus 24/7 we were still in the 4-500's.

Seriously. That is more than the total I paid for my last 2 years of electricity, and I have electric heat/hot water/dryer!

cchrissyy

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 10:43:49 AM »
yeah, there MUST be more to the story.
Luckily it's not the OP's business to learn more and stress about the matter,  but a $2k electric bill, if real, is many months worth.

Which makes sense, if they have no reserves and were struggling to pay their mortgage, that they let other bills pile up, and then when the electric company threatened shut off, they had to finally pay that big bill, meaning no money for the house payment. It would mean they're behind on lots of other bills to lots of other cards/companies and have already exhausted all savings or raiding retirement accounts and all that stuff people do when they've overspent everywhere and can't keep the balancing act anymore.

Thank goodness you stayed casual and none of this is your problem!  I agree that his asking this is a breach of your casual/friend relationship and you should consider stepping back from the situation. Just, consider it.

Spork

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2017, 10:47:58 AM »
My first thought was "Holy Shhhh" 2k power bill!  Are they running a Google Data Center?  Even when there was a full house with someone on a breathing apparatus 24/7 we were still in the 4-500's.

Seriously. That is more than the total I paid for my last 2 years of electricity, and I have electric heat/hot water/dryer!

Swimming pool?  Welding shop?  Marijuana grow house?  House flooded and they're running massive fans to dry it out?

But to the original question: I agree with most above.  Don't let his resentment get to you.  I just don't lend to friends and family.  If they get their panties in a wad for me saying no, they're underlining why I don't lend to friends and family.  IMO, this is not even about cash flow.  It's just a recipe for disaster.  (Gifts under rare circumstances of need... different topic entirely.)

Cali Nonya

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2017, 10:48:33 AM »
P2F.

Nothing I can constructively add other than I would be very careful going forward.  I do not mean to imply anything too negative about your partner, but even good people sometimes do stupid things under stress, and if there's a late mortgage payment, he's under stress.

Cookie78

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 11:03:55 AM »
Generally I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. He was stressed enough that he asked you out of some sort of hope, not expectation. Unfortunately adding money gifts/requests to any relationship creates tension and I understand your response. In fact I would feel the exact same way and it would be hard to let it go. (I said I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, not that it is easy to do so!)

You responded well and hopefully it doesn't come up again. But try not to worry about his opinions on your spending money you could have given to them!

Katsplaying

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2017, 11:51:56 AM »
Thank you all for the well-though-out, cogent replies and suggestions.

I have stumbled in lending to a friend in the past and though it eventually satisfactorily resolved, at no point during the pay-back period was the friendship without that undercurrent of financial obligation. Even after everything was done. we were never quite the same together and have since gone our separate ways. I miss her to this day. Money inserts a strange sort of intimacy into relationships that maybe shouldn't have it. 

Everything I've read about money & friends/family/intimates/partners says it pretty much ruins things. I have ruined things with previous live-in partners around money because I want ALL the control & trust no one to do it as well as me. I understand how people eff up their finances; I've been through 2 bankruptcies. I've realized everyone is abysmally ignorant about money unless and until they make an effort to change that. I am still ignorant, just not abysmally so, but that takes a lot of ongoing work. That's why I hire professionals to help.

I am grateful to have found this community to learn from & share with. Thank you again.
   

Slee_stack

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2017, 11:52:15 AM »
While you describe an unusual personal situation, if you look at it on the surface, its just a common age old friend/family money request.

I think you handled it OK.  The safe bet is to never LOAN a friend or family member any money, ever.  If you want to GIFT someone money, that's a different story.  Even then, one has to be careful they aren't doing the requestor a disservice in the long run by enabling them.

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2017, 11:56:03 AM »
My first thought was "Holy Shhhh" 2k power bill!  Are they running a Google Data Center?  Even when there was a full house with someone on a breathing apparatus 24/7 we were still in the 4-500's.

Grow lights?

Slee_stack

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2017, 12:07:47 PM »
My first thought was "Holy Shhhh" 2k power bill!  Are they running a Google Data Center?  Even when there was a full house with someone on a breathing apparatus 24/7 we were still in the 4-500's.

Grow lights?

Out of curiosity, how much do Grow Lights cost to run, and how much weed would be produced with $2000 in electricity?  I would guess a lot.  Could someone personally consume that much weed?  Seems far fetched.

Optimiser

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2017, 12:27:22 PM »
Out of curiosity, how much do Grow Lights cost to run, and how much weed would be produced with $2000 in electricity?  I would guess a lot.  Could someone personally consume that much weed?  Seems far fetched.

I did taxes for a grower who produced about a hundred pounds of weed from $39,400 of electricity. I suspect their operation isn't as efficient as it could be and I believe they lost some crops too.  That said $2,000 should be enough electricity for at least 5 pounds of weed. I'd assume it would be very difficult to consume that much, but I'm no expert.

Goldielocks

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2017, 12:28:57 PM »
Good call.

You have well defined boundaries in your relationship.  He stepped over in a time of anxiety.  You re-instated the boundary without any confusion. 

No different, than if you had showed up at his home expecting to join him for dinner, (because you were anxious about something) and he politely said no and closed the front door.

Up to you for the next steps.

Spork

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2017, 12:29:07 PM »
My first thought was "Holy Shhhh" 2k power bill!  Are they running a Google Data Center?  Even when there was a full house with someone on a breathing apparatus 24/7 we were still in the 4-500's.

Grow lights?

Out of curiosity, how much do Grow Lights cost to run, and how much weed would be produced with $2000 in electricity?  I would guess a lot.  Could someone personally consume that much weed?  Seems far fetched.

Random googles here.

I looked for some really high powered incandescent grow lights (who needs LEDs, we're gonna make a bunch of money here!)  Random page showed a big commercial grow light at 1000w -- 1Kw.  Very convenient.

Average cost of power in US: 0.12/kwh

$2000 = 0.12 * k
k = 16,666 kwh  -- given the nice round figure of 1kw bulb, that means 16,667 hours a month

On a month with 31 days... there are 744 hours in a month, so

16,666 / 744 = 22.4 light fixtures of 1000w running 24x7.  (I got no idea if the plants do better with a "night" built in there or not.)

How much weed can you grow with 22.4 commercial light fixtures?  Dunno. 

Hargrove

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2017, 05:08:21 PM »
But now I'm angry that he put me in this horribly awkward position where if I spend anything I'll wonder if...

Your wondering is on you, but he should accept your answer.

I'd never be offended if friends or family asked for money; I'd be offended if they reacted poorly for not getting it.

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2017, 07:45:17 PM »
But now I'm angry that he put me in this horribly awkward position where if I spend anything I'll wonder if...

Your wondering is on you, but he should accept your answer.

I'd never be offended if friends or family asked for money; I'd be offended if they reacted poorly for not getting it.

+1

He must have been desparate to ask. Hopefully your relationship will not change.

JoJo

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2017, 05:16:10 PM »


+1

He must have been desparate to ask. Hopefully your relationship will not change.

hmmm.  The first thing I thought is "doesn't matter if your relationship will change"   


Reynold

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Re: Friend/partner asked for money :(
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2017, 09:56:46 AM »
I would be particularly wary of loaning the money because neither a mortgage payment nor an electric bill is "unexpected".  It isn't like there was a sudden accident, or the house caught fire, or something.  It points to him being much more likely to ask to borrow more money than to be able to pay it back.  I also agree with a couple of other posters that he has a pretty sweet deal going on here, resources usually go TO the mistress, not the other way around.  :)

When ever I have loaned money to friends (family never needed it, fortunately all pretty responsible) it has been as a gift, to prevent the relationship from becoming awkward.  I have used small loans (like $10-$40) to acquaintances to find out what kind of people they were, it can be worth risking that much to find that out, but this is pretty large relative to your assets/income from what it sounds like.