Author Topic: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?  (Read 18183 times)

Villanelle

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2021, 03:21:59 PM »
OP, I'm not sure from your description if you plan not to talk about it at all, or if you are trying to concoct some kind of cover story.  I would caution you to think about how you will talk about this not just now, but 10 years from now.  You might get tired of the story, but find a harder time with the whole truth after that long.

For me, I told my family that I expected to retire when I came back from Ireland.  Of course, I expected that in 2023.  Having come back to the US in 2020, I called it a sabbatical, and that was true:  I wasn't sure how my stache would fare in 2020, I had received a European-sized severance that discouraged me from working for the rest of the year, and I used that time to think about where I was.  Come 2021, I am fully retired.  I do not shout it to the heavens, but I am open about it, if it comes up.  And I have no trouble telling people "no" if they assume I have oodles of time to give them--I have a lot going on!

Also be careful concocting a story that is actually a lie. It's psychologically exhausting and damaging to consistently lie to those close to you. Sometimes it's necessary, but it comes at a cost, which might be worse than just dealing with reality head on


Couldn't agree more with this.  And frankly, I think it is messed up to lie to the people one professes to care about, without a damn good reason.  (And "it's hard to say no" isn't a damn good reason.)

I think there are ways to finesse the truth so that you aren't outright lying.  My spouse is still working, but I quite to be an overseas trailing spouse and as it turns out, I may have actually retired, though that wasn't the plan--or even a remote possibility we considered--at the time.  For now, I am working on my writing, hoping to eventually publish and make a few bucks.  So I tell strangers I am a writer (and I am!) and I tell friends and family that I'm trying to make a go at writing (also very true)  and only those closest to me get told that it's unlikely I will ever pursue regular employment again but I'm working on writing which I hope will provide a little bit of extra income in our future.

None of those things are lies or even significant stretches of the truth.  I can't imagine flat out telling someone I claim to care about that I have a part time job when I don't, or that I've been looking for work and can't find it, or whatever.  Now, if it's not someone I care about but I somehow find myself in a position where I can't just say, "that's not really any of your business" or even "I'm not comfortable sharing that"?  Maybe I'd lie, but then it's going to be someone who plays basically no role in my life, not a friend--no matter how casual--or a family member.

FR2000EE

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2021, 02:24:57 PM »
I am surprised how interesting this question has been in my short 1 year retirement.

On the day I retired at 54, I told my large AA group, today was my last day of work. Many people knew and everybody close to me. Probably because a few years ago at age 50, I resigned and my boss talked me into staying part time, which I did for a few years. So, I have already had discussions with those around me.

Overtime, I see someone whom I haven't seen in a while, and they ask me, "Have you retired yet?". I feel very proud to answer yeah about a year ago, which seems like a long time. I feel proud because it was a hard decision emotionally, more so than financially.

One of the best feeling I have experienced in retirement is when I hear some of my friends complain about having to still work. Mostly because these are the exact people who always pointed out how cheap I was, when I try to save a buck here or there.

And I have also noticed over time, when I don't know someone well and they say what do you do, I sometimes say I am retired, if I want to get to know them more, or sometimes, I just say, I'm not working right now. I don't fee like I am lying, because sometimes I have thought about going back to work. Usually, I just sit and wait for that compulsion to pass, but I mostly blame it on covid lockdowns and the lack of interaction and travel restrictions. I look forward to experiencing retirement more again soon.

The other reason that I have been very happy to be retired and healthy is seeing quite a few folks who work longer and seem to have physical challenges very early in retirement. So, I am grateful for each day of retired health.

Overall, most people are happy for me, when I say I am retired, but frankly, I don't really think they care that much because they are thinking about themselves.

I really appreciate this community and hearing all the discussion. Thanks.

MasterStache

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2021, 05:11:16 AM »
Eh, if anyone inquires sure I tell them. I never go into personal details about our finances. I think they can surmise we saved a lot of money. I am always happy to give tips to them. I've had folks talk about how they have been wanting to simplify their lives more (downsize, sell the expensive car, get rid of crap, etc.) but it always seems that their significant other wants more.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2021, 06:44:49 AM »

One of the best feeling I have experienced in retirement is when I hear some of my friends complain about having to still work. Mostly because these are the exact people who always pointed out how cheap I was, when I try to save a buck here or there.

And I have also noticed over time, when I don't know someone well and they say what do you do, I sometimes say I am retired, if I want to get to know them more, or sometimes, I just say, I'm not working right now. I don't fee like I am lying, because sometimes I have thought about going back to work. Usually, I just sit and wait for that compulsion to pass, but I mostly blame it on covid lockdowns and the lack of interaction and travel restrictions. I look forward to experiencing retirement more again soon.



Heh, yeah, I'm pretty sure the two reactions I'll get is "of course, he made a ton more money than me" from those I out-earned and "of course, he's always been a cheap bastard" from my similar income peers.

And given I've worked from home for over a decade now, and that my hours often fluctuated both in when and how much, I don't think the people I don't bring it up with will even notice.

But in the end it looks like I'll be 50 when I completely pull the trigger, so its not like its the oddball move as someone at say 35 (heck my kids think of me as an old man anyway so of course I should be retiring soon)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 06:48:16 AM by Much Fishing to Do »

MMMWannaBe

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2021, 10:11:57 PM »
 "lying to loved ones comes at a significant psychological cost that shouldn't be under estimated. "

You certainly take a different perspective than my husband.  A few years ago we paid off our house.  Although I had no compulsion to tell people, if asked I felt no compulsion to lie either.  My husband forbade me to tell anybody - I told him I had a hard time lying when asked point blank.  And the weird thing is, it is unbelievalbe how many times I am asked if our house is paid off.  I do consider it a prying question, but I do not like being under an edict to lie.  My husband's Mom has asked me numerous times how long until our house is paid off.

I retired at 42.  My husband still works so it does not seem odd.  He could stop working at any time.  I see little upside of talking finance to others.  I was very excited when I discovered MMM.  I tried to share the philosophy with others - they were not interested.  If my husband were to retire tomorrow if queried it would be a simple we saved and compounding is amazing.

And Malcat I do want to know what you did.  And dont say consulting.

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #55 on: March 19, 2021, 06:54:14 AM »
"lying to loved ones comes at a significant psychological cost that shouldn't be under estimated. "

You certainly take a different perspective than my husband.  A few years ago we paid off our house.  Although I had no compulsion to tell people, if asked I felt no compulsion to lie either.  My husband forbade me to tell anybody - I told him I had a hard time lying when asked point blank.  And the weird thing is, it is unbelievalbe how many times I am asked if our house is paid off.  I do consider it a prying question, but I do not like being under an edict to lie.  My husband's Mom has asked me numerous times how long until our house is paid off.

I retired at 42.  My husband still works so it does not seem odd.  He could stop working at any time.  I see little upside of talking finance to others.  I was very excited when I discovered MMM.  I tried to share the philosophy with others - they were not interested.  If my husband were to retire tomorrow if queried it would be a simple we saved and compounding is amazing.

And Malcat I do want to know what you did.  And dont say consulting.

Again, there's a difference between being private and sustaining a meaningful lie.

If I had a paid off house and didn't want to share it, I would tell partial truths and employ redirection.
"Is your house paid off?"
"We've made extra payments on the mortgage, but with these super low interest rates, I wonder if it makes more sense these days to just keep a mortgage and invest more? What do you think?"

In dealing with in laws, I'll always defer to my spouse as to how it should be handled, and I am willing to sustain White lies on that front because I'm not overly close with some of mine, and yes, they can be invasive. However, I'm never left stranded, and we devise a clear messaging that we stick to, like politicians trying to manage a scandal.

I already fully acknowledged that sometimes deception is the best course of action, but as I said before, that doesn't mean that it doesn't take it's toll. I'm sure it takes its toll on your DH too, even if he feels it's worth it.

As for me, I'm a retired medical professional, and had side hustles in financial and management consulting for other health professionals. In my particular medical area, people tend to have a ton of questions, so if I lead with that, I know I'm stuck in doctor mode for awhile, which on my off hours, I just don't want, so I stick with "consultant" and then few people care.

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2021, 09:33:30 AM »
"lying to loved ones comes at a significant psychological cost that shouldn't be under estimated. "

You certainly take a different perspective than my husband.  A few years ago we paid off our house.  Although I had no compulsion to tell people, if asked I felt no compulsion to lie either.  My husband forbade me to tell anybody - I told him I had a hard time lying when asked point blank.  And the weird thing is, it is unbelievalbe how many times I am asked if our house is paid off.  I do consider it a prying question, but I do not like being under an edict to lie.  My husband's Mom has asked me numerous times how long until our house is paid off.

I retired at 42.  My husband still works so it does not seem odd.  He could stop working at any time.  I see little upside of talking finance to others.  I was very excited when I discovered MMM.  I tried to share the philosophy with others - they were not interested.  If my husband were to retire tomorrow if queried it would be a simple we saved and compounding is amazing.

And Malcat I do want to know what you did.  And dont say consulting.

Again, there's a difference between being private and sustaining a meaningful lie.

If I had a paid off house and didn't want to share it, I would tell partial truths and employ redirection.
"Is your house paid off?"
"We've made extra payments on the mortgage, but with these super low interest rates, I wonder if it makes more sense these days to just keep a mortgage and invest more? What do you think?"

In dealing with in laws, I'll always defer to my spouse as to how it should be handled, and I am willing to sustain White lies on that front because I'm not overly close with some of mine, and yes, they can be invasive. However, I'm never left stranded, and we devise a clear messaging that we stick to, like politicians trying to manage a scandal.

I already fully acknowledged that sometimes deception is the best course of action, but as I said before, that doesn't mean that it doesn't take it's toll. I'm sure it takes its toll on your DH too, even if he feels it's worth it.

As for me, I'm a retired medical professional, and had side hustles in financial and management consulting for other health professionals. In my particular medical area, people tend to have a ton of questions, so if I lead with that, I know I'm stuck in doctor mode for awhile, which on my off hours, I just don't want, so I stick with "consultant" and then few people care.

Such a sad but accurate way to put it. How crazy is the world that "we" post for all the world to see on social media the $75,000 new truck we got but treating saving that same money responsibly is more akin to a scandal. Not saying you meant it entirely this way; it's just what came to mind.

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2021, 09:43:48 AM »
"lying to loved ones comes at a significant psychological cost that shouldn't be under estimated. "

You certainly take a different perspective than my husband.  A few years ago we paid off our house.  Although I had no compulsion to tell people, if asked I felt no compulsion to lie either.  My husband forbade me to tell anybody - I told him I had a hard time lying when asked point blank.  And the weird thing is, it is unbelievalbe how many times I am asked if our house is paid off.  I do consider it a prying question, but I do not like being under an edict to lie.  My husband's Mom has asked me numerous times how long until our house is paid off.

I retired at 42.  My husband still works so it does not seem odd.  He could stop working at any time.  I see little upside of talking finance to others.  I was very excited when I discovered MMM.  I tried to share the philosophy with others - they were not interested.  If my husband were to retire tomorrow if queried it would be a simple we saved and compounding is amazing.

And Malcat I do want to know what you did.  And dont say consulting.

Again, there's a difference between being private and sustaining a meaningful lie.

If I had a paid off house and didn't want to share it, I would tell partial truths and employ redirection.
"Is your house paid off?"
"We've made extra payments on the mortgage, but with these super low interest rates, I wonder if it makes more sense these days to just keep a mortgage and invest more? What do you think?"

In dealing with in laws, I'll always defer to my spouse as to how it should be handled, and I am willing to sustain White lies on that front because I'm not overly close with some of mine, and yes, they can be invasive. However, I'm never left stranded, and we devise a clear messaging that we stick to, like politicians trying to manage a scandal.

I already fully acknowledged that sometimes deception is the best course of action, but as I said before, that doesn't mean that it doesn't take it's toll. I'm sure it takes its toll on your DH too, even if he feels it's worth it.

As for me, I'm a retired medical professional, and had side hustles in financial and management consulting for other health professionals. In my particular medical area, people tend to have a ton of questions, so if I lead with that, I know I'm stuck in doctor mode for awhile, which on my off hours, I just don't want, so I stick with "consultant" and then few people care.

Such a sad but accurate way to put it. How crazy is the world that "we" post for all the world to see on social media the $75,000 new truck we got but treating saving that same money responsibly is more akin to a scandal. Not saying you meant it entirely this way; it's just what came to mind.

Lol, well I was personally not at ALL referring to anything to do with FIRE or personal finance. I truly don't give a fuck on that front, and I have always let my freak-flag fly.

What I was referring to was my particular case of having complex health issues and having some in-laws who like to ask me a lot of invasive questions about very personal aspects of my body, and not because they care. So I prefer to stay quite private about the struggles I deal with day to day because it's none of their fucking business. So DH and I have "talking points" that we both know to stick to, and not stray from.

My point was that sometimes privacy is incredibly important, but that should be determined by the individuals, not by society.

I truly don't give a flying fuck what society expects of me, but I do have certain parts of myself that I prefer not to share openly, regardless of what society thinks about it. 

chevy1956

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2021, 07:29:20 PM »
I'm curious for people that have told others, especially for ones that have done it without taking an early pension or something that's easily understood - what would you actually say? I'm retired.....? Do you give any details? I'm not talking about numbers, but do you reveal it to the point where you basically explain that you live off of the interest and growth of money that you have in an account? It seems like if you explained you were early retired if people were close to you/inquisitive at all, it would come down to them having a basic understanding of that fact. If they did have that fact, then they would know you had a relative crap ton of money in the bank, and I'm curious if that would change the relationship. That's always been the confusing/sticking point for me.

I've found that saying "I saved enough to equal a modest pension" tends to cover it quite well for anyone who doesn't really understand personal finance.

An update on this thread. I've just told my parents and some close friends and this is the line I used.

My parents are both horrified but I think they accepted it. My friends think I'm cheap. My brother is happy.

I'm glad I've gotten this off my chest.

ToTheMoon

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2021, 07:44:41 PM »
I've found that saying "I saved enough to equal a modest pension" tends to cover it quite well for anyone who doesn't really understand personal finance.

An update on this thread. I've just told my parents and some close friends and this is the line I used.

My parents are both horrified but I think they accepted it. My friends think I'm cheap. My brother is happy.

I'm glad I've gotten this off my chest.

This is a great line and I hope that we will use it someday soon. Congrats on your retirement!

Villanelle

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #60 on: October 27, 2021, 10:50:07 AM »
"lying to loved ones comes at a significant psychological cost that shouldn't be under estimated. "

You certainly take a different perspective than my husband.  A few years ago we paid off our house.  Although I had no compulsion to tell people, if asked I felt no compulsion to lie either.  My husband forbade me to tell anybody - I told him I had a hard time lying when asked point blank.  And the weird thing is, it is unbelievalbe how many times I am asked if our house is paid off.  I do consider it a prying question, but I do not like being under an edict to lie.  My husband's Mom has asked me numerous times how long until our house is paid off.

I retired at 42.  My husband still works so it does not seem odd.  He could stop working at any time.  I see little upside of talking finance to others.  I was very excited when I discovered MMM.  I tried to share the philosophy with others - they were not interested.  If my husband were to retire tomorrow if queried it would be a simple we saved and compounding is amazing.

And Malcat I do want to know what you did.  And dont say consulting.

Yeah, I wouldn't be okay with that.  Both DH and I tell white lies and ask each other to support white lies among our families.  But that's for very minor and generally short-term things.  And if either one of us were every uncomfortable with, we'd tell the other and that would be the end of it.  I'd never push him to lie to them if he wasn't comofrtable with it.

I think I'd go back to DH and say that I just wasn't comfortable anymore and I either needed to be able to tell the truth, or to respond with "talk to your son about that; we agreed I'm not going to discuss it", or something along those lines, and then he could deal with it and with the weirdness that creates.  And I'd repeat that every time. 

It is a bit strange to me that people ask if your house is paid off.  I've never been asked that (though we live in a rental now, but still own our old place and rent it out), have never asked anyone, and have never heard anyone ask that.  To me, it is an extremely presumptuous question for anyone but a very close friend or relative.  (Which I'd say a MIL qualifies as, but not many others. )  So it seems super odd that this comes up so frequently for you.    But for most people just a "I don't like to discuss finances" would probably do.

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2021, 11:18:15 AM »
Last year, I switched half of my investments from index investing to picking beaten up stocks and leveraged ETFs (my theory was simply "stocks recover").  At that time, I knew the returns could be insane.  If it worked, I would feel bad if I had not told my friends.  To avoid that, I communicated enough about my investment idea so that friends could decide for themselves.  I was perfectly fine with friends ignoring it - I just wanted to make sure they had the chance to listen and decide for themselves.  The returns have been legendary, so for me it was right to tell people the investment idea ahead of time.


I've found that saying "I saved enough to equal a modest pension" tends to cover it quite well for anyone who doesn't really understand personal finance.
The "modest pension" line gives me another idea: you could tell people your withdrawal rate rather than your savings.  If you tell someone you have saved up a million dollars, you might get:
"You have a million dollars?  Wow, that's a lot!"

But if you say you saved up enough to live on $40,000/year (4% of $1M):
"You live on just $40,000 a year?  Wow, you're struggling."

chevy1956

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2021, 03:56:54 PM »
But if you say you saved up enough to live on $40,000/year (4% of $1M):
"You live on just $40,000 a year?  Wow, you're struggling."

This is what I told my mates who spend money like it's going out of fashion. I don't live that way. I'm cheap. I'm poor. I don't want to spend money like they do.

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2021, 04:45:12 PM »
But if you say you saved up enough to live on $40,000/year (4% of $1M):
"You live on just $40,000 a year?  Wow, you're struggling."

This is what I told my mates who spend money like it's going out of fashion. I don't live that way. I'm cheap. I'm poor. I don't want to spend money like they do.

I recently had this conversation with a BIL that outside of our mortgage (we live in a HCOL), we can easily live below $40k/year. In fact, we can quite comfortably live below $30k/year like we did last year during Covid lockdown. He and his wife were shocked and could not believe that was our lifestyle. Then again, they're both drowning in credit card debt and have two car payments and barely getting by on a six-figure income.

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2021, 07:14:13 PM »
IMHO, finances should be shared with family and anyone that may be affected by your decision to retire (spouse/children/parents) and no one else.  I've been semi retired off and on "between jobs" in every decade of my life and usually just say "I'm between positions" or "looking for something new" and occasionally people share something interesting. I don't know if there is much difference in other's perception between someone who earned their money and lived frugally to retire early and someone who was just handed wealth at birth as both no longer have to work and may result in the same level of envy among the general population.   

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2021, 07:15:34 PM »
IMHO, finances should be shared with family and anyone that may be affected by your decision to retire (spouse/children/parents) and no one else.  I've been semi retired off and on "between jobs" in every decade of my life and usually just say "I'm between positions" or "looking for something new" and occasionally people share something interesting. I don't know if there is much difference in other's perception between someone who earned their money and lived frugally to retire early and someone who was just handed wealth at birth as both no longer have to work and may result in the same level of envy among the general population.   

This isn't my personal experience at all. Are you saying this rule for yourself, or do you genuinely believe that all people should follow it as a general rule?

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2021, 09:24:19 AM »
If we don't need to stay home because of corona restrictions, next week we will visit our family abroad for the first time in 2 years. That will also be 2 years since we quit working and were taking a sabbatical. I would like to be sort of honest when my mother, brother and SIL ask me if I am back to work now.

We have already told an enquiring friend that we are in no hurry to get back to work and that we are financially okay with that. His conclusion was that as we aren't coffee drinkers, that we must have saved a lot of money by not buying coffee.
We also told some other friends the truth. They just asked if it was FIRE, which we confirmed. Then they told us they would be in the same situation in a few years.
We also told FIL the truth 2 years ago. He ended up bragging about it to others. That was not my intension.

I think we will tell my relatives that we saved enough for a modest pension, and can go back to work some simple job or doing consultancy work if necessary. I am a bit sceptic of what my mother might say. She can sometimes be very accusing of decisions she doesn't agree of. But she did agree full heartedly with our decision to take a year of and that having a life/time is more important than earning money.

Skyhigh

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2021, 08:36:08 AM »


FIRE can alienate us from the rest of the population. Early retirement can mean becoming disconnected from our peer group. I would not tell others.

boarder42

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2021, 08:42:19 AM »


FIRE can alienate us from the rest of the population. Early retirement can mean becoming disconnected from our peer group. I would not tell others.

Strongly disagree.  My peer group is all on a FI/RE path b/c i talk about it.  Just yesterday bc we started talking numbers a new friend realized they probably are FI now just need to put together a plan.

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2021, 08:56:04 AM »
FIRE can alienate us from the rest of the population. Early retirement can mean becoming disconnected from our peer group. I would not tell others.
If early retirement is important to you, then only having conditional friends that you tell about the other parts of yourself will itself alienate you from them. You don't automatically owe it to your friends to tell them about your long term health conditions or hard things from your past, but the friendships where you share those things get deeper and the friendships where you don't stay shallow. It's ok to keep shallow friendships shallow, but it's also okay to put more of yourself into your most important friendships to get more out of them.

My peer group is all on a FI/RE path b/c i talk about it.
So much this. I have like seven or eight FIRE convert friends - enough to take over a Camp Mustache - because I just opened myself up a little bit and said "here's what I'm doing and it works for me and you might consider it for yourself". That's a massive pile of middle class garbage that the world will never produce and 25 decades of more fulfilling human life from a couple pleasant conversations with people I already got along with anyway!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2021, 09:01:01 AM by grantmeaname »

Skyhigh

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2021, 09:39:24 AM »

Limiting oneself to those who have achieved FIRE often means hanging out with 70-year-olds. I have some younger friends as well, however it is not common to have a large group who are young and free.

boarder42

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #71 on: December 13, 2021, 10:13:49 AM »

Limiting oneself to those who have achieved FIRE often means hanging out with 70-year-olds. I have some younger friends as well, however it is not common to have a large group who are young and free.

yeah you will fulfill your own prophecy by not talking about it.  to each their own but most people are actually pretty excited to learn about this in my peer group. By not talking about it you will never know if some of your friends might be interested in better money management.

And I don't think anyone said limiting friends to those who are FIREd i'll beat most of my friends by 5-10 years but we still hang out.

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #72 on: December 13, 2021, 10:19:08 AM »

Limiting oneself to those who have achieved FIRE often means hanging out with 70-year-olds. I have some younger friends as well, however it is not common to have a large group who are young and free.

None of my friends are aiming for FIRE and it hasn't been a problem  for me socially at all.

Skyhigh

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #73 on: December 13, 2021, 10:55:23 AM »


I am also involved with some investing clubs. However, in a small town, the offerings are slim.

Fire2025

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #74 on: December 13, 2021, 12:23:31 PM »

Limiting oneself to those who have achieved FIRE often means hanging out with 70-year-olds. I have some younger friends as well, however it is not common to have a large group who are young and free.

yeah you will fulfill your own prophecy by not talking about it.  to each their own but most people are actually pretty excited to learn about this in my peer group. By not talking about it you will never know if some of your friends might be interested in better money management.

And I don't think anyone said limiting friends to those who are FIREd i'll beat most of my friends by 5-10 years but we still hang out.
 
I'm very open with my peer group about my plans and a little pushy with young PAs that work with me. 

I figure why not open the young PA's eyes to something they may not have been exposed to.  Most people think I'm crazy, meh no harm no foul.  Some have opened up and ask questions, some have even started to invest some of their savings.  I consider even those small moves a big win for them.

Conversely, I don't talk money with my family.  They think I'm broker than they all are, so no one comes to me for money, and I love it that way. 

So yes I'm a total hypocrite.  :-)

boarder42

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #75 on: December 13, 2021, 12:34:03 PM »

Limiting oneself to those who have achieved FIRE often means hanging out with 70-year-olds. I have some younger friends as well, however it is not common to have a large group who are young and free.

yeah you will fulfill your own prophecy by not talking about it.  to each their own but most people are actually pretty excited to learn about this in my peer group. By not talking about it you will never know if some of your friends might be interested in better money management.

And I don't think anyone said limiting friends to those who are FIREd i'll beat most of my friends by 5-10 years but we still hang out.
 
I'm very open with my peer group about my plans and a little pushy with young PAs that work with me. 

I figure why not open the young PA's eyes to something they may not have been exposed to.  Most people think I'm crazy, meh no harm no foul.  Some have opened up and ask questions, some have even started to invest some of their savings.  I consider even those small moves a big win for them.

Conversely, I don't talk money with my family.  They think I'm broker than they all are, so no one comes to me for money, and I love it that way. 

So yes I'm a total hypocrite.  :-)

pretty sure i already told this story in this thread a while ago but i was in a wedding and we were all at the rehearsal and all the groomsmen were gathered back stage and i just said i'm going to retire at 37 - and one guy laughed his ass off and joked about it - at the dinner later that evening to other groomsmen came up to me and said tell me more about how this all works.  it was great.  clearly this was a long time ago as now i'm quitting at 35.   

DaTrill

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2021, 01:03:59 PM »
IMHO, finances should be shared with family and anyone that may be affected by your decision to retire (spouse/children/parents) and no one else.  I've been semi retired off and on "between jobs" in every decade of my life and usually just say "I'm between positions" or "looking for something new" and occasionally people share something interesting. I don't know if there is much difference in other's perception between someone who earned their money and lived frugally to retire early and someone who was just handed wealth at birth as both no longer have to work and may result in the same level of envy among the general population.   

This isn't my personal experience at all. Are you saying this rule for yourself, or do you genuinely believe that all people should follow it as a general rule?

Personal choice. 

Metalcat

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #77 on: December 16, 2021, 01:22:43 PM »
Ah, because "IMHO, finances should be shared with family and anyone that may be affected by your decision to retire" sounded to me like an imperative statement.

I'm finding lately that a lot of people here are sharing personal opinions, but stated in imperative form.

I'm very curious about why this is.

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #78 on: December 24, 2021, 12:01:08 PM »
Yesterday I told my mother that we have retired early, after she asked whether we had managed to find new jobs after our sabbatical. She took it okay, although she thought were were pretty young to retire. We didn't get a bunch of questions and I explained about living frugally, what she also does to a certain degree.

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #79 on: December 25, 2021, 10:46:17 AM »
Merry Christmas.

Waiting for dinner to be prepared and therefore a few minutes online.

Today I told my SIL and brother that we were early retired. I got the direct question if I was back to work and I didn't want to tell a lie. They seemed to think that was a good plan for us. SIL said later that she had never considered this and thought that life was about working, earning money and spending it. So maybe I opened her eyes. Of course she and my brother have most of the time worked parttime, so I reminded them of that they are already prioritizing life over work in their current situation.

I am happy that the cat is out of the bag now. It feels natural to speak the trough. Both SIL and my brother are a few years younger than I am. I hope they won't resent us when they have a bad working day later.

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #80 on: December 25, 2021, 08:50:55 PM »
It's interesting being around family. And I've been very open about my plans for the last few years. And everyone is intrigued candy asking if in still going to quit and then some ask what I'm going to do with my time. I probably talk about it too much but the ones who actually understand are like you're making the right decision. Not that the justification from them is necessary. But I've been prepping them for years.  So again talking about it is a good thing. This isn't something that should be hidden. Money and being taboo is what commercialization thrives on. And you know we all profit from to a degree. If some is happy to tell you about their new lifted f450 you should be happy to talk about your newly minted shares of your chosen asset allocation.

ixtap

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #81 on: December 26, 2021, 07:20:26 AM »
DH is planning to downsize, rather than quit. However, one of my nephew's asked if we would be OK long term and I told him about FIRE. He just quit his job and moved into his car, so I pointed him to ERE, rather than here. His sister was already familiar with the basic tenets.

charis

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #82 on: December 26, 2021, 08:30:22 AM »
It's interesting being around family. And I've been very open about my plans for the last few years. And everyone is intrigued candy asking if in still going to quit and then some ask what I'm going to do with my time. I probably talk about it too much but the ones who actually understand are like you're making the right decision. Not that the justification from them is necessary. But I've been prepping them for years.  So again talking about it is a good thing. This isn't something that should be hidden. Money and being taboo is what commercialization thrives on. And you know we all profit from to a degree. If some is happy to tell you about their new lifted f450 you should be happy to talk about your newly minted shares of your chosen asset allocation.

I think this can depend on what your family is like.  We have family members who are already vaguely critical that we aren't spending more money on family, including family gifts, travel, and general economic assistance (for others in the family, ie "can you split the cost on this gift for so and so").  It would likely not go over well if we shared our good financial position with them at the "expense" of not helping out more.  They are all pretty frugal and have had some expensive life experiences or living on small social security payments.  There would at least be an increased expectation and I just don't want to deal with it.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #83 on: December 26, 2021, 12:58:55 PM »
So much this. I have like seven or eight FIRE convert friends - enough to take over a Camp Mustache - because I just opened myself up a little bit and said "here's what I'm doing and it works for me and you might consider it for yourself". That's a massive pile of middle class garbage that the world will never produce and 25 decades of more fulfilling human life from a couple pleasant conversations with people I already got along with anyway!
I dream of this, how glorious. Was your friend group mostly challenge-oriented before? I seem to only convert fat-FIREes from quite high incomes & middle-class baby-steppers, myself, so the ecological impact is much smaller. I can't really talk lifestyle with either group since theirs are much-inflated compared to mine & they always seem to be hunting for ways to consume more. My close friends have such different perspectives on money - aversive - that I've come to accept they aren't really receptive to discussion of it or anything around it; we share the passions I want to retire to, but I know I'm going to be orienting my schedule around their free hours in the future. My SO is about the only person I can talk frankly with on the subject in real life but his goal is several years off.

It seems like the difficulty is in finding people with a combination of an interest in challenge, lack of interest in status, & ability to perceive money as a tool for things beyond status-seeking.

Fru-Gal

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #84 on: December 26, 2021, 02:31:25 PM »
At this time of year, with families getting together, this is such an interesting question. I wasn't planning on saying much but it turns out my mom announced to all that I had quit my job. The concept of early retirement hasn't come up much and I was asked what my next plan was and how I would make money at it. I sidestepped all of that by getting enthusiastic about some technical aspects of my passion project.

Ironically the conversation went to the typical complaints about billionaires. I see how wedded even these liberal, environmentally conscious, professional families are to their expenses. One in-law said they spend $400 a month on their car, which is unthinkable to me even though I live in a VHCOL area and they live in the opposite. When I suggested you don't have to buy things to have an experience with them, that also got a "wow, that's really thinking outside the box" comment. Many negative emotions around money rather than seeing it as a tool.

There may be an underlying awareness of our net worth because of our house, we're known to be frugal bike riders and I had a high-paying job. But they're so trapped in a mentality of spend now, work forever, then collect SS/pension. They're also known to comment about maybe getting an inheritance -- yikes! That really makes me uncomfortable & I insist to my kids that we don't sit around hoping for elder family to die off. I think if they were to know that I was planning on living off $1 million in savings they would view that jealously rather than as an example they could follow.

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #85 on: December 30, 2021, 01:20:55 PM »
I retired at 54, should have retired at 52, but worried about ACA being repealed.

Handed letter of resignation to supervisor. He said where you going (for new job). I said read the letter (which said I was retiring). Made sure they listed my reason for leaving as retirement as year-end 401K match is forfeit for leaving unless you retire. Had to point this out to HR (after year-end) to force them to give me the match, but that is another story. Local work group gave me a little party during office hours, group lunch, gifts including several bottles of rum and several t-shirts, one that said "officially retired". I sprung for an open bar for the group after work.

Wore the "officially retired" t-shirt under a button shirt at a family dinner I cooked/hosted. After dinner I said I have an announcement and unbuttoned my shirt. Mom couldn't believe me, but everyone congratulated me.

One slow afternoon at a local bar, two older guys came in and we got to talking. They asked what do you? I said retired. They asked how old? I said 54. They said F..k you. I smiled and said thank you. That was the best.

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #86 on: December 31, 2021, 05:08:29 AM »
I dream of this, how glorious. Was your friend group mostly challenge-oriented before? I seem to only convert fat-FIREes from quite high incomes & middle-class baby-steppers, myself, so the ecological impact is much smaller...It seems like the difficulty is in finding people with a combination of an interest in challenge, lack of interest in status, & ability to perceive money as a tool for things beyond status-seeking.
I was very lucky to find MMM in college when I was living off $9k/year and before my friend group had graduated up to larger lifestyles expensive enough to be defensive about...

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #87 on: December 31, 2021, 09:23:36 AM »
I dream of this, how glorious. Was your friend group mostly challenge-oriented before? I seem to only convert fat-FIREes from quite high incomes & middle-class baby-steppers, myself, so the ecological impact is much smaller...It seems like the difficulty is in finding people with a combination of an interest in challenge, lack of interest in status, & ability to perceive money as a tool for things beyond status-seeking.
I was very lucky to find MMM in college when I was living off $9k/year and before my friend group had graduated up to larger lifestyles expensive enough to be defensive about...
Ah, I envy you. I was only a couple years out of school myself, already very very frugal between my own nature & the Great Recession so when I got here (through ERE) it was a haven of the like-minded; my friends usually also had no money, were struggling, but their reaction was always to spend any they could get on comforts before the choice was taken away from them by necessities. Saving was a bafflingly alien idea, a pointless nonsensical hassle, like I'd suggested they relocate their wardrobe to a collection of flowerpots. As jobs accelerated - many of theirs way ahead of mine - that didn't really change for them, outflows always meeting inflows plus some easy debt, until a few of the comfortably upper-middle class ones looked around & realized they had essentially no savings, so "maybe" they should consider putting away 5-10%. A couple others were pulling it in hand over fist & understood the math, but they notionally-plan to spend it like water too. I try not to get down about it but it's rough to witness preventable anxiety/ suffering in people I care about.

markbike528CBX

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #88 on: January 06, 2022, 09:47:39 PM »

Cassie

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2022, 01:07:12 AM »
There’s always going to be people that are jealous of what you accomplished but have excuses for why they can’t do the same.

davisgang90

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #90 on: January 07, 2022, 04:11:48 AM »
I retired from the Navy at 49 and moved to a LCOL area where military retirees are rare. Consequently, I just tell folks I retired from the Navy and they assume (incorrectly) that most people who retire from the military stay retired.

I do get the occasional question about what I do and when I tell them I'm retired 99% of the time the response is "Good for you!".

I'm considering a very part time position as an contractor for the Naval War College, so I guess now I can say I'm a contractor instead of being retired.


swaneesr

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #91 on: January 07, 2022, 10:16:52 AM »
While searching for something else, I found an old thread that discusses this topic.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/do-people-look-at-you-different-after-admitting-your-early-retirement-ambitions/
Thank you for posting the link.

This was an good read.

SwaneeSR


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markbike528CBX

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« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 05:34:47 AM by markbike528CBX »

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #93 on: January 10, 2022, 04:25:27 PM »
It's interesting being around family. And I've been very open about my plans for the last few years. And everyone is intrigued candy asking if in still going to quit and then some ask what I'm going to do with my time. I probably talk about it too much but the ones who actually understand are like you're making the right decision. Not that the justification from them is necessary. But I've been prepping them for years.  So again talking about it is a good thing. This isn't something that should be hidden. Money and being taboo is what commercialization thrives on. And you know we all profit from to a degree. If some is happy to tell you about their new lifted f450 you should be happy to talk about your newly minted shares of your chosen asset allocation.

I think this can depend on what your family is like.  We have family members who are already vaguely critical that we aren't spending more money on family, including family gifts, travel, and general economic assistance (for others in the family, ie "can you split the cost on this gift for so and so").  It would likely not go over well if we shared our good financial position with them at the "expense" of not helping out more.  They are all pretty frugal and have had some expensive life experiences or living on small social security payments.  There would at least be an increased expectation and I just don't want to deal with it.

I'm curious. Has anyone else experienced this? I wouldn't anticipate "you just win the lottery" levels of requests,  but has anyone experienced a smaller uptick in requests for help either directly or just unstated but obvious expectations?

mak1277

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2022, 07:10:14 AM »
I recently gave my notice at the office.  I had read so many posts about the concern over telling people you're going to be retiring that I was concerned how it would go over. 

I'm here to say that being straight about it was the best thing I could have done, especially for the people who work for me.  They were all congratulatory and I haven't yet received and awkward questions.  The only questions I've really gotten is "so what will you do?"  Beyond that, it's been really much ado about nothing, I'm happy to report.

boarder42

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2022, 07:17:09 AM »
I recently gave my notice at the office.  I had read so many posts about the concern over telling people you're going to be retiring that I was concerned how it would go over. 

I'm here to say that being straight about it was the best thing I could have done, especially for the people who work for me.  They were all congratulatory and I haven't yet received and awkward questions.  The only questions I've really gotten is "so what will you do?"  Beyond that, it's been really much ado about nothing, I'm happy to report.

my experience has been the same.  With the addition of people setting up meetings to learn how I did this. 

Skyhigh

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #96 on: January 14, 2022, 10:46:22 AM »


Yeah, I don't tell them about FIRE. Sometimes people will ask. If you can detect an honest interest in learning about your situation then I would tell them. Most of the time it is so they can confirm a prejudice they may have. It changes the world's opinion of you to disclose FIRE. Most of the time it is not for the better.

boarder42

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #97 on: January 16, 2022, 09:29:32 AM »
It's interesting being around family. And I've been very open about my plans for the last few years. And everyone is intrigued candy asking if in still going to quit and then some ask what I'm going to do with my time. I probably talk about it too much but the ones who actually understand are like you're making the right decision. Not that the justification from them is necessary. But I've been prepping them for years.  So again talking about it is a good thing. This isn't something that should be hidden. Money and being taboo is what commercialization thrives on. And you know we all profit from to a degree. If some is happy to tell you about their new lifted f450 you should be happy to talk about your newly minted shares of your chosen asset allocation.

I think this can depend on what your family is like.  We have family members who are already vaguely critical that we aren't spending more money on family, including family gifts, travel, and general economic assistance (for others in the family, ie "can you split the cost on this gift for so and so").  It would likely not go over well if we shared our good financial position with them at the "expense" of not helping out more.  They are all pretty frugal and have had some expensive life experiences or living on small social security payments.  There would at least be an increased expectation and I just don't want to deal with it.

I'm curious. Has anyone else experienced this? I wouldn't anticipate "you just win the lottery" levels of requests,  but has anyone experienced a smaller uptick in requests for help either directly or just unstated but obvious expectations?
Only by one person - my Dads second wife AKA The Wicked Step Mother - and she only said I needed to "help him out" (financially) without specifics. I was somewhat estranged from my Dad (he was a dick of the worse kind) and he and his wife both had pensions and SS that was about 4 times higher then my passive FIRE income but spent it all on "toys" like cars, motorcycles, RVs, etc. She felt I should go back to work to help support them since I was too young to retire or take long multi year sabbaticals.

I always respond to these types of requests or insinuations that I'll help you build a great life just open your books and I'll see if you really need more.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #98 on: January 16, 2022, 10:23:48 AM »
It's interesting being around family. And I've been very open about my plans for the last few years. And everyone is intrigued candy asking if in still going to quit and then some ask what I'm going to do with my time. I probably talk about it too much but the ones who actually understand are like you're making the right decision. Not that the justification from them is necessary. But I've been prepping them for years.  So again talking about it is a good thing. This isn't something that should be hidden. Money and being taboo is what commercialization thrives on. And you know we all profit from to a degree. If some is happy to tell you about their new lifted f450 you should be happy to talk about your newly minted shares of your chosen asset allocation.

I think this can depend on what your family is like.  We have family members who are already vaguely critical that we aren't spending more money on family, including family gifts, travel, and general economic assistance (for others in the family, ie "can you split the cost on this gift for so and so").  It would likely not go over well if we shared our good financial position with them at the "expense" of not helping out more.  They are all pretty frugal and have had some expensive life experiences or living on small social security payments.  There would at least be an increased expectation and I just don't want to deal with it.

I'm curious. Has anyone else experienced this? I wouldn't anticipate "you just win the lottery" levels of requests,  but has anyone experienced a smaller uptick in requests for help either directly or just unstated but obvious expectations?
Only by one person - my Dads second wife AKA The Wicked Step Mother - and she only said I needed to "help him out" (financially) without specifics. I was somewhat estranged from my Dad (he was a dick of the worse kind) and he and his wife both had pensions and SS that was about 4 times higher then my passive FIRE income but spent it all on "toys" like cars, motorcycles, RVs, etc. She felt I should go back to work to help support them since I was too young to retire or take long multi year sabbaticals.

That's rough both on the money request and the overall background. I am sorry that happened. Thanks for responding. I'd hope it was the exception rather than the rule that people act crummy, hit you up for money, and so on. It sounds from people's experiences on here that I've gleaned in passing that it is an exception. We're not FIRE, but we keep things close to the vest. It's something I do think about, although I'll be probably in my mid 40's before everything would come together for me, which is at least somewhat close to retirement age.

Dicey

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Re: FIRE - Do you tell people or not ?
« Reply #99 on: January 16, 2022, 10:31:02 AM »
It's interesting being around family. And I've been very open about my plans for the last few years. And everyone is intrigued candy asking if in still going to quit and then some ask what I'm going to do with my time. I probably talk about it too much but the ones who actually understand are like you're making the right decision. Not that the justification from them is necessary. But I've been prepping them for years.  So again talking about it is a good thing. This isn't something that should be hidden. Money and being taboo is what commercialization thrives on. And you know we all profit from to a degree. If some is happy to tell you about their new lifted f450 you should be happy to talk about your newly minted shares of your chosen asset allocation.

I think this can depend on what your family is like.  We have family members who are already vaguely critical that we aren't spending more money on family, including family gifts, travel, and general economic assistance (for others in the family, ie "can you split the cost on this gift for so and so").  It would likely not go over well if we shared our good financial position with them at the "expense" of not helping out more.  They are all pretty frugal and have had some expensive life experiences or living on small social security payments.  There would at least be an increased expectation and I just don't want to deal with it.

I'm curious. Has anyone else experienced this? I wouldn't anticipate "you just win the lottery" levels of requests,  but has anyone experienced a smaller uptick in requests for help either directly or just unstated but obvious expectations?
Only by one person - my Dads second wife AKA The Wicked Step Mother - and she only said I needed to "help him out" (financially) without specifics. I was somewhat estranged from my Dad (he was a dick of the worse kind) and he and his wife both had pensions and SS that was about 4 times higher then my passive FIRE income but spent it all on "toys" like cars, motorcycles, RVs, etc. She felt I should go back to work to help support them since I was too young to retire or take long multi year sabbaticals.
Oh, dear. What's happened to them without your "help"? How ever have they managed to survive, the poor souls? /s

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!