FI without a plan

[lifeplus]

Looking for some advice from Post FI folks.

I'm in the final stages of selling two companies I have been running. One for 16 years and the other for 6. The plan was to sell one and run the newer one. However, they are both in the process of being sold now and this will be completed within the next 30 days. This, plus what we have been saving (62% savings rate) will allow us to achieve FI.

The original plan was to sell one of my companies and run the second one. It turns out that it made sense to sell them both and it's happening all at the same time. Now I'm feeling like I don't have something to "jump to".

The acquiring company has offered me a head of product roll, but I really don't want to work for someone else, however it is doing something I know, love and feel very competent in. I think I'm feeling this would be the easy, safe path, but working a 9-5 Mon/Fri job is absolutely NOT what I want to do. I think taking the leap to FI (not RE per se) without having something to jump to is unsettling for this Type A, overachiever.

My question is, did you achieve FI and not having something to jump to? If so, what path unfolded for you? Also, as I type this out, I think the Head of Product role sounds terrible. Glad I typed that out. :)

[reeshau]

I think lots of people achieve FI without something to jump to, both intentionally and unintentionally.  Particularly if you mean a full-time interest, whether job or hobby.  I think a very typical scenario are people who quit because they are burned out; they want to "do nothing" (in quotes, because more like just not work) to decompress, recover, and take the time to figure out what's next with a clear head and deep thought on their current circumstances, instead of where they were when they started their career.

For me, I had ideas,  but ended up at FI 3 years early.  I was laid off from my job in January 2020.  A large severance (I was in Ireland at the time) mostly made up for the fact that I lost the job 3 years before I was going to quit.  I came back to the US, and Covid gave me an excuse to try out retirement, while checking out the job scene without trying too hard.  The stock market cemented things, and there is no need to worry about a j-o-b any more.  I have already found expansions of my hobbies, and am quite busy with things I really like.

For you, you don't want a full-time product position.  Would it make sense to take either a time-limited interim position, or a consulting role?  The premise of the post is that you don't have a plan, and your question seems to point that you are concerned about that.  I would think an ongoing role in one of your companies would give you a familiar base from which to really explore your next phase.  While work will, of course, take time that familiar base could be useful as you think about your whole life, maybe for the first time or the first time in a long time.  Or call it a sabbatical if you want, and try out something entirely new: being a novice at something can also be revealing on what you want.

The point is, it isn't the job or activity that's important.  It's just the medium to think about yourself.  And not having the burden of the whole company to think about may give you the space to think about yourself.  Or, maybe It's still your baby, and you need to GTFO if you want to not go crazy with second-guessing the new leadership.  If you are FI, you have earned yourself the luxury to just think.  You might need to distract your body and your left brain with something in order to do that, but that need is entirely separated from the need for a paycheck now.  Only you can decide what that set of circumstances is, and you might have to try a few out before you hit on one.  Go easy on yourself in figuring that out.

[Metalcat]

I had something to jump to, and then I bailed on it because once I was retired, my unmet needs changed.

If you're the kind of person who is successful and capable of being happy, you probably have about zero reason to worry about what you "retire to".

Just be open to learning your new state of being and getting in tune with what you want from life. Let go of the notion of what you are "supposed" to be doing, that's the real hurdle.

[lutorm]

We just realized this year that, due to substantial appreciation in my employer stock, we are FI at this point. We've been talking about FIRE for a couple of years, but mostly in the sense that we should have a healthy savings rate so it might happen at some point in the future, not right now.

I'm going down to 60% time at work to recharge and get some time for a life outside work. I'm not super anxious to quit my job entirely, since I still think it's meaningful, but I want to not just work. I have a lot of projects I want to work on in the short term, long term we'll see what happens.

I'd think in your case there's zero downside to taking a year to do nothing and figure out what's next for you. You don't need the money, you don't have to make a decision to quit your job, and in a year all the opportunities you have now will still be there (except maybe staying at your business, which it sounds like you don't want anyway.)

I just read "Designing your life" which is about how to figure out what you want to do. Unfortunately I don't have time to do the exercises yet... (since I'm still working full time) but it seems like they would be helpful. The biggest takeaway is that the best way to figure out what you want to do is just try stuff. FI gives you the freedom to do that.

[deborah]

I retired and then did something completely different to what I thought I would do.

If you've started two businesses, you definitely have the ability to make something from nothing. Just go ahead and fire, and muddle your way to an extraordinary life!

[Metalcat]

I retired and then did something completely different to what I thought I would do.

If you've started two businesses, you definitely have the ability to make something from nothing. Just go ahead and fire, and muddle your way to an extraordinary life!

AMEN!

I'm a year in if you don't count an ill-advised business venture last fall. Now I'm considering a massive undertaking that no one, including me would have EVER thought I would do.

It just hit me one day and I suddenly told DH what I felt weirdly compelled to do and he was like "hell yes! You were born to do that!"

It's amazing what crazy possibilities pop up when you aren't distracted and burdened with work. All of the hobbies I had before I retired kind of went by the wayside because they were little hobbies that played second fiddle to my career. Once I had total freedom, my taste in hobbies got so much broader.

Things I had never had interest in became fascinating. I just hadn't been interested before because I didn't have the bandwidth for them.

Basically, I'm very happy that past me who knew nothing about retirement didn't actually get any say as to what I do with my time now. She didn't know me. She couldn't.

[chevy1956]

My question is, did you achieve FI and not having something to jump to? If so, what path unfolded for you? Also, as I type this out, I think the Head of Product role sounds terrible. Glad I typed that out. :)

For some context. I gave 6 months notice and I've been retired now for about 7 months. It's extended leave and I can go back but I don't intend too at this point. I consider myself to be frugal FIRE. We don't have a travel budget for instance. I consider myself a fairly happy person.

I had no plan at all in relation to a non-financial plan. I basically do what I used to do when I was working.

Nothing has unfolded. Life is though in my opinion extremely good. This is as good as it gets to me.

[lifeplus]

Thank you for such great words of wisdom from all of you. I apprecaite this greatly.

@deborah and @Malcat would you mind sharing a bit more about what you're doing now? I'm quite curious.

[Metalcat]

Thank you for such great words of wisdom from all of you. I apprecaite this greatly.

@deborah and @Malcat would you mind sharing a bit more about what you're doing now? I'm quite curious.

Nope, too identifying.

I generally see the world as packed to the rafters with stuff to learn and do. I'm constantly reading, participating in projects, and I always have some course on the go.

I love work, and I did a ton of work adjacent to my old medical profession, but since I was forced by my health to retire, it sucks to be adjacent to something I loved and can't do anymore.

So I'm considering a whole new set of professional credentials by way of another 5 years of graduate school. It won't lead to a career that I would want to do, but would give me access to tons of cool projects.

I love school, but I hate big bureaucracies, so I have no academic dreams. I prefer really high level education that has direct practical value in the real world, which I can use as a well-networked free-agent who very cool people invite to work on all sorts of projects all over the world.

...or I might not, it's hard to say.

I can't do anything for a few years anyway, so I have time to marinate on my options.

[Linea_Norway]

I was just tired of a stressful job and feeling very responsible, in a working environment that was challenging. So I was happy to RE without anything lined up. I now finally have more time for my hobbies, which require to be outside a lot. I am giving a few courses for hobbie stuff, but that is not very demanding. I said no to a more demanding course in an inconvenient location.

In your case, if you sell a company, I would not work in it again. You might only be frustrated by what the new management does different/wrong. But maybe you could be a valuable board member for some other company. That is usually a very part time position that even pays a bit.

[deborah]

I was never going to travel. I’ve been to a lot of cool remote places in retirement - Greenland, Easter island, Galapagos, Patagonia, northern Canada (drove to the Arctic Ocean, kayaking with icebergs...) astounding stuff. Lately I’ve been working my way through visiting remote local places. There is no bucket list.

I was going to start a business, expanding on my side hassle. It was never started, and the side gig no longer exists.

I grow all our fruit and most of our vegetables. I’m now planting a garden of edible plants native to my area. They are mainly perennial plants. Most plants we eat are annuals, but there are some (often less popular, but still nice) perennials. I’m trying to change my vegetable garden to perennials. Hopefully, the two gardens will supply most of our vegetable needs in perennial form, so I won’t need to replant every year.

[Mmm_Donuts]

I think I can say I FIREd without a plan. I quit my job just before the pandemic, and intended to go to part time Coast FIRE, but that didn't really happen. Since the markets have done so well this past year, I can now actually RE without the Coasting.

So - I'm not working anymore. I do have some general goals, but this is after having some time off to think about things. I'm not sure this would constitute a plan, but rather just some ideas on what I want to do, or that I'm already starting to do:

- continually take courses (I'm now doing 1 course a term of an online program, nothing too strenuous, but still challenging, and keeps my mind active
- get in the best shape of my life. I work out twice a day most days, cardio, weights, yoga, bike
- constantly read on the topic of some of my special interests (psychology, philosophy related)
- garden
- reestablish some old creative hobbies: photography and painting

And post covid I will:
- stay closer to family, visiting in person more
- travel within Canada more
- do one European hiking trip every few years

I do still have pangs of guilt or internal pressure, feeling like I should be doing something more with my life. Most of my friends are high achievers (C-suite or VP type folks) and so I am feeling somewhat out of sorts. But that's ok - I think that will change over time. It's interesting how my life has arched in a way - I was a bit of a genX dreamer/slacker in my teenage years, to the point my parents were worried about me. Then I became a hardworking and fairly financially successful workaholic. Now, back to the slacker self that I once was. Returning to the roots, it's a nice feeling, societal expectations be damned.

[Metalcat]

I think I can say I FIREd without a plan. I quit my job just before the pandemic, and intended to go to part time Coast FIRE, but that didn't really happen. Since the markets have done so well this past year, I can now actually RE without the Coasting.

So - I'm not working anymore. I do have some general goals, but this is after having some time off to think about things. I'm not sure this would constitute a plan, but rather just some ideas on what I want to do, or that I'm already starting to do:

- continually take courses (I'm now doing 1 course a term of an online program, nothing too strenuous, but still challenging, and keeps my mind active
- get in the best shape of my life. I work out twice a day most days, cardio, weights, yoga, bike
- constantly read on the topic of some of my special interests (psychology, philosophy related)
- garden
- reestablish some old creative hobbies: photography and painting

And post covid I will:
- stay closer to family, visiting in person more
- travel within Canada more
- do one European hiking trip every few years

I do still have pangs of guilt or internal pressure, feeling like I should be doing something more with my life. Most of my friends are high achievers (C-suite or VP type folks) and so I am feeling somewhat out of sorts. But that's ok - I think that will change over time. It's interesting how my life has arched in a way - I was a bit of a genX dreamer/slacker in my teenage years, to the point my parents were worried about me. Then I became a hardworking and fairly financially successful workaholic. Now, back to the slacker self that I once was. Returning to the roots, it's a nice feeling, societal expectations be damned.

I got over this by briefly getting an elite executive job. After a month I was like "yeah, long walks with my dog, a cool online course, and making pie from scratch is way better than this bullshit".

I'm cool with doing interesting, challenging work, paid or unpaid, but nothing could lure me back into a situation like that again, regardless of the prestige or income.

[Mmm_Donuts]

I got over this by briefly getting an elite executive job. After a month I was like "yeah, long walks with my dog, a cool online course, and making pie from scratch is way better than this bullshit".

I'm cool with doing interesting, challenging work, paid or unpaid, but nothing could lure me back into a situation like that again, regardless of the prestige or income.

Amen to that! I don't mind the work I used to do really, but I *hated* the corporate bullshit and politics with an absolute passion. My job was not that prestigious but it was high pressure. I used to thrive on the deadline pressure aspect but - eventually I burnt out. Funny how that happens.

Now I'm baking bread, going for walks, doing gardening, living life. Much, much better :)

[lifeplus]

When I created my first company back in 2005 I made a goal to create the business to give myself more life, not take it. On day one I told my small team (3 at that time) that I worked Mon-Thurs and I never went back on that. As the year went on, and the team grew (24 at this time between both companies) I maintain a simple work life. I do work Mon-Thursday but generally from 9am-Noon. I've worked remotely for the last 4 years and it feels like I have been slowly moving to the FI lifestyle for some time.

I hiked the John Muir Trail in 2019 and will be hiking the Tahoe Rim Trail in July this year. I do have a lot of hobbies. Work has always been something that has given me great joy and purpose, as I crafted it to be that way. I think now that I'm selling them both I just need to pause for a moment, step back, enjoy and something new will come to me.

I like the idea of being on a board. Volunteering or getting slightly more involved in something local that I feel I can help make an impact with. The PCT may be in my mid-term view, but my daughter needs to be a bit older before I take on such an endeavor. Life is good today, I can't complain. I think it's nice to share these thoughts with others who are there as I don't know anyone who is FI. 

[chasesfish]

Here's my input:

I quit without too much of a plan.  Major burnout, was in the late recovery stages of a long injury my spouse was recovering from.   It was retire, then figure it out.

I told *everyone* I was committed to taking at least 18 months off.  For the most part, everyone understood it.   

Most days were great, some days I felt unfulfilled, but committing that 18 months to myself meant the stuff I've decided to do are things I find fulfilling.

I do not want to work a W2 job for anyone else.  That *could* change, but I doubt it.

[Loren Ver]

I retired a little over two years ago without a plan other than make sure the finances work in a way that supports what we value. 

Now two years later I still don't have a big plan.  I love it.  I am a planner by nature, but knowing that the plan is nothing at times is great. I have things in my days and I guard my days off fiercely. 

In my head my main role is jokingly seneschal, as I keep the household and all of its machinations running smoothly.  But if something strikes my fancy in the future and I want to go do that thing, I can, since I didn't lock my self into something particular when all the pieces weren't yet on the table.

LV 

[sui generis]

I hiked the JMT in 2019, too!  I was SOBO starting Aug 1...did we maybe run into each other?!  Doing the JMT was one of my big goals for immediately after FIREing in 2018 and it's still one of the best things I've done.

Now, my question on your question:

I think taking the leap to FI (not RE per se) without having something to jump to is unsettling for this Type A, overachiever.

My question is, did you achieve FI and not having something to jump to? If so, what path unfolded for you? Also, as I type this out, I think the Head of Product role sounds terrible. Glad I typed that out. :)

What does it mean to leap into FI without REing?  It seems like becoming FI isn't something you have to decide or think about doing like the RE part.  I mean, if you really wanted to, you could avoid becoming FI by, like, burning your extra money or donating it all to charity or something.  But, being FI doesn't necessarily entail any change in your life like REing does.  It does sort of sound like you are talking about REing (and certainly what most of this thread is talking about), but I wanted to clarify here since you specifically say you are not thinking of REing "per se".

Well, whether there's some additional subtlety to your question or not, it sounds like you've gotten some good advice.  WRT REing, I didn't have so much of a plan as a collection of ideas.  They have ket me very busy for nearly 3 years.  Too busy in fact, and you may find yourself in a similar situation.  An overachiever that ends up just doing something else that keeps you just as busy or busier. Which might be just your speed!  I was worried about having too little to do, getting lazy, etc. and I think it really did lead me toward the "mess" I'm in currently because I didn't realize that I also really, really wanted to have a quieter, slower life.  Sounds like not your situation, but you never know what you'll discover about yourself if you do RE!  Disovering things about yourself is, I think, one of the best parts and should be a big part of any RE plan.

[DaMa]

My days fill up with time with family and friends, quilting, exercise, cooking, reading, internet, and TV.  I was looking at doing some volunteering when COVID hit.  I'm starting my patio garden this year.  I do a little traveling. 

I really don't know how I found time to work before. 

[joe189man]

This post talks about similar things with similar suggestions

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/reading-about-the-psychology-of-early-retirement/

[SachaFiscal]

I retired about 4 years ago without a real plan.  I ended up watching a lot of TV and partying it up the first 6 months.  I started taking some classes at a community college and have been on a musical learning adventure since then.  I also have gotten into mindfulness which has made me more appreciative of the present moment rather than being very goal oriented. I still end up learning, growing and accomplishing tasks but I don't worry so much about where I will be in 5 years which is something completely different that when I was working trying to achieve FI. I hardly think about my financial accounts anymore, just the monthly check that I do for maybe 30 minutes at the end of the month.

The first few years I had a lot of issues with caring what other people thought about me and if they thought I was lazy, or not a contributing citizen.  I'm starting to get over those now and just enjoy my life.  I noticed that I was judging myself way more than others were judging me. I enjoy the flexibility I have of changing my daily routine, trying new things, and being able to travel on a moments notice (before the pandemic, anyway). I'm discovering how to be with myself and it is a wonderful adventure.

[boarder42]

This is what i want to do we reached FI 2 years earlier than expected.  I have rough ideas in the PF space that i plan to "work" in after i FI including coaching, community out reach and some non profit work.  But no plan seems much more my style and i like all the suggestions given here.

[itchyfeet]

Awesome thread. I really look forward to finding myself post fire.