Author Topic: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?  (Read 49208 times)

deborah

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #100 on: June 21, 2015, 03:52:09 PM »
Wait a minute, April is a whole year (almost) away. Go today!

okits

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #101 on: June 21, 2015, 04:36:29 PM »
Francis, you are 55 and at 80x expenses!  You have delayed gratification long enough.  Resign now, go on your trip, and share what that lawyer told you with your fellow coworkers who are also being squeezed out, so they are better informed.  I assume some cannot afford to just walk away from the bad situation.

PARedbeard

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #102 on: June 22, 2015, 07:09:04 AM »
With your current fund so high, is the 401k max for 2016 really worth the hell you will have to go through? Your past work and savings rate has given you the chance (comfortably) for freedom. Buy it and get out! Stay excited about your opportunities!

Gone Fishing

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #103 on: June 25, 2015, 02:39:14 PM »
I keep checking in on this thread hoping Francis has pulled the trigger...I'll keep checking...

Dee18

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #104 on: June 25, 2015, 03:45:20 PM »
 For anyone following this thread and wanting to know more about age discrmination, you can check out this site:
 http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/regulations/adea_rfoa_qa_final_rule.cfm

A Supreme Court decision held that if an employee proves a company's actions or policies had a disparate impact on employees over 40, the company can defend itself by showing that it acted on a reasonable factor other than age.  (Some courts had previously held the only defense was business necessity.). The newer standard makes it much harder to win a case for the employee.  For example, if your employer could show that it needed more experienced people to work Christamas week, that would be a defense to a claim of age discrimination.

On a completely different note, perhaps we should plan a weekend somewhere fun for all of us who are having trouble pulling the plug when we are FI.

AZDude

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #105 on: June 25, 2015, 04:56:18 PM »
Things like giving new hires preferred working hours and changing veteran workers hours to undesirable ones. I've earned 5 weeks of yearly vacation time but I can't use it when I want. I should say when I request time off they repeatedly say, sorry but that's not a good time. Problem is there doesn't seem to be any good time for me take vacation time. I've will miss out on a summer trip to Cape Cod with friends, a Florida trip and a golf trip because of not granting my vacation requests. So why do I still work there?

First, lets address the real problem here. I am not FI yet, but I have enough in the bank that losing my job does not worry me. When I want a day off, I e-mail my supervisor and say "hey, I'm taking month-day off, if you need anything, call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx".

That's it. There is no asking permission. I work hard and get stuff done. Customers and co-workers like me. I'm valuable to the company. I can count on one hand the number of times there has been a problem, and in those cases I talk to the boss face to face and we work something out.

You are FI, stop letting some asshole tell you when you are and are not allowed to leave work. Stop asking and start telling. Channel your inner Peter Gibbons, post-hypnosis. All the stress is self-inflicted.

lhamo

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #106 on: June 25, 2015, 08:06:41 PM »
I keep checking in on this thread hoping Francis has pulled the trigger...I'll keep checking...

Me, too.

We're all cheering "Run, Francis, run!" from the sidelines -- hope you have the courage to make the move soon.


The Pigeon

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #107 on: June 26, 2015, 03:07:33 PM »
With your current fund so high, is the 401k max for 2016 really worth the hell you will have to go through? Your past work and savings rate has given you the chance (comfortably) for freedom. Buy it and get out! Stay excited about your opportunities!

Exactly!
I was in your shoes, was thinking about staying thru April 2016 to max the 401k for 2016. My workplace wasn't as awful as yours, but I still disliked it. Decided the stupid tax deduction was totally not worth a year of that crap. Fuck that. I'll pay taxes! I'd rather pay taxes than spend 1/3 of my time miserable. So I shitcanned my original plan (rather impulsively), quit my annoying job and FIREd, and I'm so relieved.
Please resign and enjoy life, go on your trip, spend time doing what you love, not what you hate. It's a lot better that way. Cut that BS out of your life and smell the flowers! You can do it!

-The Pigeon

southern granny

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #108 on: June 26, 2015, 09:04:39 PM »
You have 80 X yearly expenses, plus SS and a pension.  I hate to break it to you, but you aren't going to live to be 140 years old. Quit now and go on those trips. 

deborah

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #109 on: June 26, 2015, 09:38:20 PM »

I am still working there and don't like one bit how I've been treated there. I did speak to an employment lawyer and here are his thoughts. Said of the many things being done to us several are legal but he believes they crossed the line on a few issues into illegality. He then said it's hard, but not impossible, to prosecute this type of case for a few reasons, one being because the company didn't terminate my employment. If I was fired over reporting a discrimination issue it would be easier to seek relief. Also said this type of case could drag out over a long time and if I don't win often I could be responsible for oppositions legal bills.

So what to do? I'm thinking just to get out. Resign. Get away from these people forever. However, here's where my thoughts start to drift.
It appears to me as if you are so upset with what your employers are doing that you want to get even with a large nebulous organization rather than be healthy and really live your life.

You used to have extremely good employers, now they aren't.

Anything you do really won't be any skin off their nose, and it could cause you a lot more pain. Are you prepared to sacrifice yourself for something that is borderline?

I really think you would be better off going as quickly as you can.

Erica/NWEdible

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #110 on: June 26, 2015, 09:42:39 PM »
Hi Francis.

There is a huge opportunity cost to NOT quitting. For you there is almost no cost to quitting. At this point, with your savings, every day you walk in that door you are making the choice to be there when you simply do not have to be.

You're 55. How much more of your life to you want to voluntarily give to an organization you have come to hate, which is making you demonstrably sicker, and which is treating you so poorly you are considering entangling yourself in a messy, expensive lawsuit just to make some sense of it.

If you quit today, when you die (statistically for men in the US at age 78) are you going to think back and wish you spent another couple years at this place? And God forbid, what if statistics aren't on your side? What if you don't quit for another year, and then you are diagnosed with a terminal disease and die at 57? How would you feel knowing you kept on for 50% of your remaining life at this job when you didn't have to?

Best wishes. We're all rooting for you!

frompa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #111 on: June 30, 2015, 09:21:40 AM »
Hi FrancisinPA, I've been rooting for you, as well.  Got any update? 

tomsang

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #112 on: June 30, 2015, 11:42:55 AM »
Rooting for you.  For the cyber-stalkers by clicking on his username it shows that his account was active today.

Last Active: Today at 11:00:57 AM

Hopefully, he is just digesting that he is a free man.  The heavy shackles are really made out of rice paper.  Leave the cave and see the light!

Shinplaster

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #113 on: June 30, 2015, 04:47:18 PM »
I can only say what others have said - quit now!

Your situation is almost identical to my husband's two years ago, except he was in retail pharmacy, not hospital.   We called it the "WalMartization" of health care.  New grads make 20% less than old hires, and also rarely get full time now.  They are forced to work at least 2 jobs to make up enough hours, and do not get benefits.   Management wants only new hires, and wants all the old guys to disappear.  They treat all staff horribly, and so do the customers.   He was actually getting physically ill every day before he went to work, but couldn't seem to just quit.  Finally, things came to a head, and he walked out.   Best decision ever!   He still wanted to work some, so put his name in with a relief company.   He had more offers of work than he could handle, and was able to structure his days and weeks exactly how he wanted.  Need vacation time?  Just block those weeks off.   If a relief posting wasn't pleasant, he just refused to ever work for them again.   Stress levels went down, happiness went up, and it's a great way to transition to full retirement.   He didn't need to work financially, but wasn't ready to give it all up yet.  He used to love being a pharmacist - I bet you did too.   Now he's down to one day a week, and will quit even that in a few months.   He wonders why he didn't do it sooner.

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #114 on: July 01, 2015, 07:51:09 PM »
First, I want to thank everyone for their advice, support and well wishes. I didn't post recently because not much changed. Still there. Digesting options. Regarding age discrimination it's true that employer may be off the hook if they defend their actions with a "reasonable factor other than age". Older employees earn significantly more than a new employee. So, are they targeting us because we're old or because we earn more? Our lawyer will say age and theirs will say economic. Is the ability to hire new workers at a lower salary a reasonable factor other than age? Who knows how a court will rule?

I was thinking. A new employee can be had for 25-28k less than us veterans. Thats significant. What if I approached someone, HR etc., and propose a deal. I'll leave voluntarily, unlock their 25-28k savings, but I get something out of the deal. I don't know exactly what maybe Healthcare for a while or x weeks pay. Then I'll feel like they didn't get away with something. What's the chance of this succeeding? Is it worth a shot? What should I ask for? They only can say no.

At work today, an excellent PharmD announced she was leaving. Great worker, just had enough. They treated her like shit and when she told them she was leaving - they had the nerve to ask her to stay longer than her notice required because they were short workers. She said no and they took it hard. I'd say over the last year we had at least 15 people quit (not all pharmacists). Hopefully in the near future I'd be #16.

deborah

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #115 on: July 01, 2015, 08:01:17 PM »
Sounds like you would also need to be prepared to stay until they had a replacement person, but if you propose a deal that you would stay until they get someone and you would get something out of the deal, I think it would be worth a shot. Maybe not even something concrete. Maybe something like being treated nicely for the remainder of your stay.

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #116 on: July 01, 2015, 08:02:07 PM »
I can only say what others have said - quit now!

Your situation is almost identical to my husband's two years ago, except he was in retail pharmacy, not hospital.   We called it the "WalMartization" of health care.  New grads make 20% less than old hires, and also rarely get full time now.  They are forced to work at least 2 jobs to make up enough hours, and do not get benefits.   Management wants only new hires, and wants all the old guys to disappear.  They treat all staff horribly, and so do the customers.   He was actually getting physically ill every day before he went to work, but couldn't seem to just quit.  Finally, things came to a head, and he walked out.   Best decision ever!   He still wanted to work some, so put his name in with a relief company.   He had more offers of work than he could handle, and was able to structure his days and weeks exactly how he wanted.  Need vacation time?  Just block those weeks off.   If a relief posting wasn't pleasant, he just refused to ever work for them again.   Stress levels went down, happiness went up, and it's a great way to transition to full retirement.   He didn't need to work financially, but wasn't ready to give it all up yet.  He used to love being a pharmacist - I bet you did too.   Now he's down to one day a week, and will quit even that in a few months.   He wonders why he didn't do it sooner.

You summarized my life with your post. New hires salaries are declining due to new pharmacy schools pumping out huge numbers of graduates. For the first time in a long time supply of pharmacists exceeds demand. So how do they get the older, higher pain pharmacists out? By the tactics your husband and myself had to endure. This pharmacist surplus is serious. I read where Walgreen's lowered their starting salary in Florida by 20%. They can hire as many pharmacists as they want at this rate. Just how to get the veterans out. Thanks for your post.

lhamo

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #117 on: July 01, 2015, 08:13:20 PM »
Francis, I think you should negotiate from the position of strength that you are clearly in.  You are a skilled worker who knows their systems, and they will need you to fill in.  Give two weeks notice, and when they ask if you can stay longer propose a relief work type situation like the person you quoted above worked out.  At a higher rate than your current salary.  If they say no, then you just walk and wipe your hands of them.  And wait for another relief position to come up. 

You have the money to retire -- I hope you can find the courage to do so.  Yes, what they are doing is wrong.  I had a lot of stuff done to me that was wrong, too.  But I am SOOOOOO glad to be free from work.  There are so many possibilities opening up that never would have come about if I stayed.  That is true for many other people who have taken the leap, too.

Quit your current job, work only when you want for a wage you think is worth it, and otherwise enjoy your life!

Maybe July 2 can be your personal Independence Day?  As in the day you resign?  I hope so....

G-dog

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #118 on: July 01, 2015, 08:14:55 PM »
Good luck Francis - we are all pulling for you!

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #119 on: July 02, 2015, 07:33:16 AM »
lhamo called it.  You ask for a package because it doesn't hurt to ask.  Pick a riDONKulous consulting rate and let them know if they are desperate after you leave that is what it will cost them to have you temp for them.  Your worst case scenario is walking away with "just" your freedom.

PARedbeard

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #120 on: July 02, 2015, 07:38:37 AM »
I think OP is more concerned about the ethical situation of the company riding roughshod over its workers than any continued paycheck from the company.

With the others, though, I think getting out and getting your own freedom should be the first priority instead of getting tied up in a soul-sucking lawsuit that may or may not have much effect.

begood

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #121 on: July 02, 2015, 07:56:55 AM »
Hard as it would be to do, I recommend jettisoning the idea of a lawsuit because it would tie you to the company for YEARS to come. You're trying to get OUT, not mire yourself down in the muck even more.

Trust me, their pockets are deeper than yours. They could drag something like this out for a very long time, with no guarantee of a satisfactory resolution for you at the end of it.

Your whole world has been this job, so it's hard to imagine lifting your head and looking out and not worrying about this place or those people anymore. But that's exactly what I encourage you to do. Dream. Dream BIG. Lift your head and look out way beyond the pettiness and shameful behavior of your employers and recognize that you don't need to tilt at this particular windmill anymore.

Shinplaster

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #122 on: July 02, 2015, 12:39:25 PM »
I can only say what others have said - quit now!

Your situation is almost identical to my husband's two years ago, except he was in retail pharmacy, not hospital.   We called it the "WalMartization" of health care.  New grads make 20% less than old hires, and also rarely get full time now.  They are forced to work at least 2 jobs to make up enough hours, and do not get benefits.   Management wants only new hires, and wants all the old guys to disappear.  They treat all staff horribly, and so do the customers.   He was actually getting physically ill every day before he went to work, but couldn't seem to just quit.  Finally, things came to a head, and he walked out.   Best decision ever!   He still wanted to work some, so put his name in with a relief company.   He had more offers of work than he could handle, and was able to structure his days and weeks exactly how he wanted.  Need vacation time?  Just block those weeks off.   If a relief posting wasn't pleasant, he just refused to ever work for them again.   Stress levels went down, happiness went up, and it's a great way to transition to full retirement.   He didn't need to work financially, but wasn't ready to give it all up yet.  He used to love being a pharmacist - I bet you did too.   Now he's down to one day a week, and will quit even that in a few months.   He wonders why he didn't do it sooner.

You summarized my life with your post. New hires salaries are declining due to new pharmacy schools pumping out huge numbers of graduates. For the first time in a long time supply of pharmacists exceeds demand. So how do they get the older, higher pain pharmacists out? By the tactics your husband and myself had to endure. This pharmacist surplus is serious. I read where Walgreen's lowered their starting salary in Florida by 20%. They can hire as many pharmacists as they want at this rate. Just how to get the veterans out. Thanks for your post.

I know how hard this is.   Pharmacy isn't just a job - it's who you are.  It's difficult to turn off years and years of helping people.  But your stress and unhappiness has to be bleeding into your personal life also.  Your friends and family have noticed that you are stressed, and not yourself.  It is affecting all your relationships, whether you know it or not.  Do not give this management any more power over your life.  No lawsuit - that would chain these people to you for years.   As I type this, I can see hubby sitting on the deck, drinking a coffee, and reading the paper.   Best ad ever for getting out!

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #123 on: July 03, 2015, 08:16:07 PM »
I think OP is more concerned about the ethical situation of the company riding roughshod over its workers than any continued paycheck from the company.

With the others, though, I think getting out and getting your own freedom should be the first priority instead of getting tied up in a soul-sucking lawsuit that may or may not have much effect.

Yes I am concerned about how unethical the company is acting. It's like they know what they are doing but figure no one will stand up to them. My God, there is a worker here who has multiple serious health conditions and her Doctor wrote a note that she cannot start work earlier than 8 am. Others workers will gladly switch with her so this can occur. Guess what -  they denied her request. They told her absolutely not. When she asked to put the denial in writing they refused. This is what we're up against. What she and her Doctor wanted sounded like a reasonable accommodation. There is no business need to deny her. They figure no one will get a lawyer and fight. If anyone else suggests go to HR forget it. They back whatever the company wants 100%. Probably fear for their jobs.

That being said, if a lawsuit is not the best path that's OK. I understand how strong the company is with retained labor attorneys, a lot of money, and the ability to delay things for a long time. Just figure it would be a big pain in their butt, but a lot of you said it'll be a pain in my butt too.

lhamo

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #124 on: July 03, 2015, 10:23:16 PM »
Multiple serious health conditions?  That is the "business reason" to deny her request.  High medical costs for just one employee can sometimes translate into higher insurance rates for the entire company.  Anyway, they are probably trying to drive her to quit.  Or into a settlement. 

I understand you wanting to see this company do right by people, Francis, but it isn't going to happen.  Heck, it didn't happen for me at my supposedly high-minded non-profit.  I probably could have raised a stink about how I was treated with Sr. mgmt. (I know and have good relationships with the entire sr. mgmt. team, including the CEO) and complained about HR's general ineptitude, but not sure it would have done any good.  At some point it is best just to cut your losses and enjoy your freedom.  I sincerely hope you can get to that point.  They have taken too much from you already.  Don't let them continue to take more.

Exflyboy

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #125 on: July 04, 2015, 08:46:49 AM »
I have to agree.

The whole idea in becoming FIRED is to be free from stress. Why would you do this to yourself? Those company lawyers could turn on you and start making threats of frivolous lawsuits on YOU! The costs to defend yourself could seriously hurt your ER'd status, they don't have to win!

Just how Monsanto drives little farmers out of business come to think of it. They got a much bigger stick than you have... Don't poke the sleeping bear!

AS to them treating your colleagues badly.. Yes that would annoy me too, but all the more reason all of us should not be leveraging our lifestyles so much that we cannot afford to loose our jobs.

I know this is harsh but part of the reason people are abused at work is they allow themselves to be.

Walk away man, the stress of this could cause a heart attack.. it happens!

G-dog

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #126 on: July 04, 2015, 01:54:45 PM »
If someone refuses to put something in writing, I send them an email "dear so-and-so, as per our discussion of <date> (list others in meeting if anyone else was there), contrary to my physician's instructions, you have refused to assign me a work shift that starts after 8 am or offer a flexible work schedule."

If they send a return email, great. If they respond orally, then you create another email to document your understanding of the discussion.

Also, s/he can check the laws in your start about if you can tape a conversation without the other party's permission.

In any contest, a paper trail helps.

cavewoman

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #127 on: July 04, 2015, 02:06:22 PM »
I'm really rooting for you. Posting so I can be notified of what I hope will be a reply from op saying he finally broke free.

MidWestLove

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #128 on: July 04, 2015, 02:55:22 PM »
I still do not understand why you keep on staying...

and (again being direct), no one benefits from playing the victim (age, etc) - if you dislike them that much just LEAVE! if you do not want to leave then may be you are not disliking them that much ... make up your mind and take action, stop making excuses.

Life in Balance

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #129 on: July 04, 2015, 07:00:35 PM »
I understand your wanting the company to have to change its ways.  Any chance that involving local media or making some posts on social media might generate some attention to the problem? 

chrisgermany

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #130 on: July 06, 2015, 06:37:45 AM »
You know what you are retiring from - but do you have something that you are retiring TO?

Think about how to spend your time, how to research for new hobbies or how to volunteer.
Do you like to travel, exercise or read?

There are excellent books available to help to overcome the "one more year syndrome".
Like Ralph Warner's "Get a life" or Ernie Zelinskiís "How To Retire Happy, Wild, and Free".
Lots of brain food in both.

Trudie

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #131 on: July 07, 2015, 11:55:11 AM »
I have to agree.

The whole idea in becoming FIRED is to be free from stress. Why would you do this to yourself? Those company lawyers could turn on you and start making threats of frivolous lawsuits on YOU! The costs to defend yourself could seriously hurt your ER'd status, they don't have to win!

Just how Monsanto drives little farmers out of business come to think of it. They got a much bigger stick than you have... Don't poke the sleeping bear!

AS to them treating your colleagues badly.. Yes that would annoy me too, but all the more reason all of us should not be leveraging our lifestyles so much that we cannot afford to loose our jobs.

I know this is harsh but part of the reason people are abused at work is they allow themselves to be.

Walk away man, the stress of this could cause a heart attack.. it happens!

I have voluntarily and non-voluntarily left shitty jobs, and all I can say is it's always turned out all-right.  I have more-than-once asked myself about putting up a fight, but in the end former employers can always lawyer up and cause you much heartache, stress, and financial trauma.  I just don't think it's worth it.  If you didn't have the money saved that you do, you might need to put up a fight.  But you can cut yourself loose -- no strings attached.  Be proud of the freedom you've achieved.  You don't need them.  That place is like a bad boyfriend/girlfriend.  Kick 'em to the curb.

One thing I had to work on was getting over the sense that I was not "fighting back" when I was being screwed over.  I was letting this hold me back from walking away.  Eventually I realized that I was just one small cog in a very dysfunctional wheel.  My staying or going -- despite what anyone said -- had little impact on the outcome.  So, going was best for me and I went.

I also believe that in my situation I was on the front end of bigger changes that were afoot.  My whole department was cut, but we got off better than most (good severance, placement counseling, etcetera).  Within a year the place was totally turned on its head and it was ugly.  Several former employees actually wrote an expose in an independent newspaper.  I was like, "Was it worth it?"  At the time I had moved on.  Life was already much better.

I would encourage you to think about the health and happiness you are depleting by staying there.  As I've approached mid-life and more financial security (although technically not FIRE) I scrutinize how I spend my time.  There are so many things that aren't worth my time and I just won't do them anymore.

Cut yourself free.  Do not let resentment, anger, fear or any other sort of bad feeling tether you down.  Once you're done, let it go.  By all rational financial calculations you can do this, but my advice is to do the health side of the equation and consider that too.

crazycatlady

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #132 on: July 09, 2015, 05:25:36 PM »


Eventually I realized that I was just one small cog in a very dysfunctional wheel.  My staying or going -- despite what anyone said -- had little impact on the outcome.  So, going was best for me and I went.

I would encourage you to think about the health and happiness you are depleting by staying there.  As I've approached mid-life and more financial security (although technically not FIRE) I scrutinize how I spend my time.  There are so many things that aren't worth my time and I just won't do them anymore.


I am also rooting for you to resign.  I too was in a toxic situation, although less toxic then you describe yours, it was very detrimental to my health.  Insomnia, anxiety, migraines and finally panic attacks forced me to quit since my body was telling me that I couldn't do it any more.  My health improved immediately upon quitting.  I came off anxiety meds, I cut my BP meds in half and now I can sleep.  I was also in health care (RN) and of course I found it shocking how evil hospitals and healthcare workers can be.  If you stay longer it is not going to make it any better for your coworkers.  The company can and will screw everybody over.  I would give as little notice as possible and get on with your life.

And speaking from experience, it has taken a long time to detox from a dreadful workplace.  I retired last fall and feel like I am just about done detoxing.  The earlier you start the earlier you can get on with life.  Good luck.

patrickza

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #133 on: July 20, 2015, 02:54:37 AM »
I'm also waiting for the magic thread when you finally come and write that you said enough was enough and you walk out for the very last time. I can almost feel your relief for you!

frompa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #134 on: July 20, 2015, 06:40:05 AM »
.....
I was thinking. A new employee can be had for 25-28k less than us veterans. Thats significant. What if I approached someone, HR etc., and propose a deal. I'll leave voluntarily, unlock their 25-28k savings, but I get something out of the deal. I don't know exactly what maybe Healthcare for a while or x weeks pay. Then I'll feel like they didn't get away with something. What's the chance of this succeeding? Is it worth a shot? What should I ask for? They only can say no.

At work today, an excellent PharmD announced she was leaving. Great worker, just had enough. They treated her like shit and when she told them she was leaving - they had the nerve to ask her to stay longer than her notice required because they were short workers. She said no and they took it hard. I'd say over the last year we had at least 15 people quit (not all pharmacists). Hopefully in the near future I'd be #16.

Well, dude, this situation seems to me to present you with an excellent situation to negotiate a severance package that suits you.  Go to your bosses and HR, and say, "I see from SO AND SO leaving that more experienced people are leaving in a way that leaves the organization high and dry.  To give you added assurance as to my reliability, I am willing to commit to BLANK (staying on three more months? one month? six months? working post retirement one day a week? Whatever you choose...) in exchange for your agreeing to giving me a severance package that includes one year of health insurance coverage and *** weeks' pay."  YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE HERE.  What you should ask for depends entirely on your personal situation.  Be prepared to initially propose far more than you'd settle for, so that you have some room to negotiate.   If you want to up the ante, you can make some slight mention of your observing over the past few years that older pharms seem to be leaving in much greater numbers, and that you too feel that pressure.  As another poster mentioned, it's crucial to get these communications IN WRITING, and confirming all such communications via email is an excellent way to proceed.  Go for it!

chippy

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #135 on: July 20, 2015, 12:29:35 PM »
My mother was in a similar situation. For her the issue wasn't the job in particular but the environment. She just couldn't imagine not working (I know, I know). She engineered a move to another company for lower hours, stress and a better job. My father on the other hand loves what he does and will never retire (and for my mother's sanity, shouldn't).

They are currently have a saving rate of 75% and savings over 100x yearly expenses and own property in a sunny tropical locale; some people just can't simply retire - its a mind set, they just need to work 60 hours a week.

(My 4x savings just looks sad right now.)

RosieTR

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #136 on: July 22, 2015, 08:26:38 AM »
I'm going to guess that what you are really struggling with is the obligation/guilt towards your other coworkers and how they would cope if you left, and also how they are getting screwed. This seems like it's related to your self-identity as a part of the team, someone who is responsible, etc.
It may help to do two things: one, give them the info you found on labor law, contacts for labor lawyers etc. This way, you are helping them if they need/want to pursue legal action (or just be aware of their rights) but you are not fighting their fight for them. Two, go forward with your family trips. You do not know if this trip will ever happen again and you will remember this for the rest of your life. If you get fired for this, you get FIRE'd and you don't have to make any agonizing decisions over staying or going or putting up with bullshit. If you feel comfortable talking to any coworkers about how you will be financially ok with this, that may also help them in the long term.
Management sometimes has to screw up a lot before they get it, and if they are willing to lose their human capital over stupid stuff then they will eventually be left with the crappiest workers. Which is not a great way to run a business. And also, not your problem. You are standing in rising river, and you can't stop it yourself. But you can throw a few life jackets to people close to you and get out before you drown.

Basenji

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #137 on: July 22, 2015, 02:38:28 PM »
Please retire and enjoy your life.

northernlights

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #138 on: September 03, 2015, 12:16:43 PM »
Francis, I hope you haven't been posting because you FIREd and went to the Cape. Please share an update!

smiller257

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #139 on: September 04, 2015, 06:13:04 AM »
80x expenses saved and wondering why you can't retire? Really? It's all in your head, retire already!

Robbob

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #140 on: September 06, 2015, 01:54:42 AM »
Quote
FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?

Well, you could compare it to a squirrel.

It's always stashing nuts. When it doesn't have them, it gets frantic. When it has a big stash, it gets scared of losing it. It wants-wants-wants... It wants to control its environment and ensure its survival. Its whole life is run by it.

Your inner squirrel keeps collecting nuts, and already has a stash big enough, but keeps collecting them just in case. Maybe it's time to make friends with your inner squirrel (ego) and move on?


Trudie

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #141 on: September 08, 2015, 03:12:41 PM »
Quit.  I understand, believe me. 

Last December I was off work for surgery.  Work had been a rollcoaster for years but lately had plummeted to new lows.  Soul sucking, hand wringing, drinking too much after a stressful day, sleeping pills to sleep at night.   At home recovering from surgery,  as the date drew closer to return to work I started to panic about going back to that hell hole.  Every night my husband would come home from work to  find me crying on the couch.  I was starting the countdown on the days until I return.  He was the one who suggested that I retire now.  Literally I would ask over and over and over, "really?  is it possible?  I can retire?  You mean I never have to go back there?"  I could not wrap my head around it. 

I am 56 and I planned to work until 60.  It just went against everything in my work ethic, upbringing whatever to "bail" 4 years early.  I just about drove my husband crazy asking him repeatedly "is it possible, really? really? give up a "good" government job? You mean I don't have to work 4 more years?" 

Finally, as the day grew closer to return to work after surgery, I decided that I won't make a decision now I will wait and see how I feel after I get back to work.  Long story short, two days back to work and I was done. 

FUCK you assholes!  I typed up my letter giving two weeks notice and with outstanding vacation owing I only had to work 4 days.  I spent three days dealing with hell, shit hitting the fan and taking a moment here and there to shred.  Shred shred shred.  Day 4 morning I handed in all my company property (badge, etc.)  Before going to lunch with my co-workers I told my boss I won't be back after lunch.   My heart was pounding at the elevator like I had robbed the bank, broke out of prision, escaped from being held hostage, got away with murder, you get the picture. 

Not for a second have I regretted it.  I am eating homecooked meals (made by moi), drinking is probably 1/3 of what I was drinking.  No more sleeping pills.  Gym 5 days a week. 

I did feel guilty in the beginning that my husband is still working but now, not so much.  The stress on him is far less, we are not rushing around trying to grocery shop, clean the house, yardwork etc.   He loves it because he sees I am finally happy.  I am putting my health first now instead of last.  I have had two surgeries in two years and have a few other medical issues that need attention. 

I know it sounds crazy but I think I had PTSD (mild).  The first couple of weeks I apparently was crying, shouting and screaming in my sleep.  It seems insane now and it was only last month. 

FU money is the truth.  I get up when I want.  I go to bed when I want and in between I do what I want. 
I know it sounds arrogant but on a beautiful day like today, I was sitting out in the backyard reading a book with a coffee thinking how great life is now and "I am far too rich to put up with their bullshit"

You sound like my kind of people.  I'm not FIRE yet, but close.  My response to most things I don't like -- either to myself or in the presence of my husband, is EXACTLY your last line.

frugledoc

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #142 on: September 14, 2015, 02:07:35 AM »
Why do you let them dictate vacation days to you?  What is this strange power they hold over you.  Is it Stockholm syndrome?

okits

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #143 on: September 14, 2015, 12:02:28 PM »
This thread is almost four months old. Francis, please tell us you have some progress to report!  Madly hoping for your freedom and happiness.

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #144 on: September 16, 2015, 05:25:04 PM »
Hi everyone. Since several requested an update here it is. I appreciate the help of everyone here but I didn't post more because I am still working. But with a different mindset. My goal still is to make it to early spring then leave work. I did not go with my friends to Cape Cod but did get to spend time with them in late August. Work is as bad as ever, make that its a spiral downward. Last week, two other pharmacists gave notice they are leaving. They can't wait to leave. The younger pharmacists say they would leave in a second if they could - but they can't  with a mortgage, car payments etc. I have a lot of vacation saved up so I have been using it to reduce my workweek usually to three days. I'm really loving the extra days off. There is going to be an opening soon at another place that interests me. It would be only 1 or 2 days a week and I am very qualified for the position. I plan to apply for it when posted and that would be a reason to leave my current job before spring. I'm not actively pursuing the lawsuit route - some poster told me that the employer could turn things around and accuse me of things and I'd have to defend myself.

So why am I waiting to quit? I know financially I could RE now. But it makes more sense to me to to fill the 401K for 2016 and then pack it in. What I think about tho is it may be the best decision financially but is it really in my total best interests to wait? I'm losing time. But, see, this is a behavior that I've done my whole life - delay something I know I should do. Examples are I've driven cars way too long then bought a new car and wondered why I waited so long. Was in a relationship once that turned bad, still stayed in it for years then wondered why I did that. Why I waited so long to be free. It's just in my personality to wait I guess.

Well I had a great day today. Drove around in the sports car in beautiful fall weather. Am now making dinner with fresh vegetables from the local Farmers market.Wine in the refrig. As you might guess I was off today. And I'm off the next two days too. I'm kinda liking this free time.

FrancisinPa

EndlessJourney

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #145 on: September 16, 2015, 06:20:51 PM »
What I think about tho is it may be the best decision financially but is it really in my total best interests to wait? I'm losing time. But, see, this is a behavior that I've done my whole life - delay something I know I should do. Examples are I've driven cars way too long then bought a new car and wondered why I waited so long. Was in a relationship once that turned bad, still stayed in it for years then wondered why I did that. Why I waited so long to be free. It's just in my personality to wait I guess.

Hi Francis,

I don't think you should feel bad.

It's one thing to know academically and logically what you *should* do. But it's another thing to internalize it and make it what you *want* to do.

You'll do things your way and in your own time and feel comfortable about it regardless of what strangers on the Internet say.

lhamo

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #146 on: September 16, 2015, 06:22:17 PM »
I hope you either get the new part time gig OR decide to quit sooner rather than later.  Read my tag line.  It is really true.  My quality of life has improved SOOOOO much since I quit my job.  I'm working on a part time consulting gig at the moment, but even that feels like it is cramping my style a bit.  Freedom is so precious -- seize it while you can!

Shinplaster

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #147 on: September 16, 2015, 07:18:42 PM »
Gradually reducing your work week is a great way to ease into RE.   

I'm glad you have found an arrangement that works for now, and wish you happiness no matter what you choose to do going forward. 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 01:00:15 PM by Shinplaster »

okits

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #148 on: September 16, 2015, 08:28:49 PM »
Francis, you're taking small steps in a positive direction, which is great!  Keep using up your vacation to get yourself more days off right now...  You totally deserve it and it will ease you into not being at work as much (or at all).  Good luck on the new PT job, I hope you get it.  Since you know you have a habit of procrastinating positive changes, try to push yourself just a little more than you normally would...  Enough to get you a little out of your comfort zone and to challenge you.  Striving to reach a better place is worth the small amount of discomfort. 

Continuing to root for you!

former player

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #149 on: September 17, 2015, 01:16:44 AM »
Francis, thank you for posting an update.  Too often advice is asked for and given and nothing more is heard, so it is great to see you doing well.

It seems to me that you are seeing yourself and your situation pretty clearly now, and doing what seems best to you in your circumstances, which is the best that any of us can do.  Congratulations.