Author Topic: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?  (Read 53582 times)

FrancisinPa

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FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« on: May 21, 2015, 11:10:26 AM »
Hi,

Been reading lots of posts here, this is my first one. I'll be 56 in August and believe financially I could retire anytime. Yet I don't. I hang onto a job (been with the same company for over 30 years) that has deteriorated so much the past 5 years it's a living hell . I do earn in the low 100's so that's the only plus. But the job has become unbearable. Things like giving new hires preferred working hours and changing veteran workers hours to undesirable ones. I've earned 5 weeks of yearly vacation time but I can't use it when I want. I should say when I request time off they repeatedly say, sorry but that's not a good time. Problem is there doesn't seem to be any good time for me take vacation time. I've will miss out on a summer trip to Cape Cod with friends, a Florida trip and a golf trip because of not granting my vacation requests. So why do I still work there? OMY syndrome for sure. Buy in my case it leads to two more years, then three, you see where I'm going here. How do I break out of this?

Financial info - I think I'm pretty good here. Income streams:

1. Probably have 80x yearly expenses saved. Invested 30/70 stock mutual funds/bonds. Bond percentage includes 25% in CD's, I Bonds and some land in a nice warm climate.

2. Beginning when I'm 65 I'll receive a $26,500 pension from previous employer.

3. Plan to defer SS til 70. Should be 30k give or take.

So does it look like I can ER financially? Why can't I pull the trigger on leaving work? I really, really despise working where I am yet I can do it if I had to. I've presented the my situation to several people I know and I was surprised how many of them said to keep working. When I asked why, they basically said I could always have more security as in more savings. Then I guess that's an argument to work forever. Any opinions appreciated. Thanks.

tarheeldan

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2015, 11:17:56 AM »
1. Probably have 80x yearly expenses saved

Mr. Green

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2015, 11:22:02 AM »
Quit now. If all the numbers you have listed are really accurate you have enough to FIRE several times over.

I know people who have done something for so long, that it has become a part of them. You've worked for the same company for over 30 years. It probably feels like part of your identity at this point. Fear of change can be paralyzing for some, even in the face of an miserable situation. I don't know if that applies to you or not. It sure sounds like you're going to miss out on some really fun trips. You really do have more than enough to FIRE. Personally, I'd give my two week notice and enjoy those trips. Each day only happens once.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 11:27:53 AM by Sir Hikes-A-Lot »

forummm

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2015, 11:27:20 AM »
You have saved literally several times as much as you need to. Clearly you don't need to be there. Why do you think you haven't quit? Is it just the financial concern, or something else?

If it's just the financial concern, you can quit today. Right after reading this sentence.

Maybe you want to stay for a bit for other reasons (like finishing up something you care about). But you don't need to come in tomorrow otherwise.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2015, 11:38:52 AM »
1. Probably have 80x yearly expenses saved

This.

Great Garbonzo Beans Batman!  80x would give you a 1.25% withdrawal rate.    Not only can you retire, you can eat out every day, buy a new car every 3 years, and spend a month a year in Europe/wherever.  About 25x expenses is generally considered "FU money". 

Bare minimum, quit *that* job and do something else.  You will not suffer the tiniest if you have to take a 30% paycut.  Just get out of the toxic environment.  Maybe get a gig serving burgers at the little 18th hole restaurant at your favorite golf club.  Fun.  You are on the course.  Prolly tee time benefits.  You shouldn't give a rip about the money.

You could also take half a million and open just about any franchise known to man.  Are you a dirty old man?  Maybe Hooters/Twin Peaks or some other "breastaurant."   You mentioned Golf.  Maybe a Golfsmith franchise if they do business that way.

You. Have. Options.

Exflyboy

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2015, 11:49:27 AM »
Its probably fear.. if its anything like me it is. I have 75X of projected spend (assuming I keep our rentals), plus a $15k pension next year and a similar one for my Wife in 8 years time... Yeah its a bit overkill..:)

I quit but I can't resist some p.t work that's profitable that filled the coffers a bit more.

Its a valid concern, I mean if your 80 and run out of money your likely not going to be able to walk into a 6 figure job, so why not stuff the mattress a bit more now?

The problem of course is that when is enough enough? In your head I'm sure you have calculated over and over and realize that logically you CAN retire.. believing it in your heart is another matter though.

I think if the numbers are really showing you have 80X spending saved (plus a pension in 9 years time).. Well then you need to say F it.. and just dive off the high board and see what happens.

You'll do just fine.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 11:59:02 AM by Exflyboy »

MandyM

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2015, 12:00:25 PM »
I've presented the my situation to several people I know and I was surprised how many of them said to keep working.

How many of these people are already retired? Or inclined to think that there is even the possibility of retirement before 60? My gut says zero. 

You know in your heart that this is an emotional issue, not a financial one. If you need to, find a therapist that has experience with people shifting into retirement. Or just sit down and envision what your post-job life will be like. If its not a clear picture, figure out the details until it is.

welliamwallace

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2015, 12:03:44 PM »
Remember, you are simply a mammal. You have an organic brain that has evolved over millions of years under certain conditions to be a creature of habit. Most, if not all, of our decisions are made primarily by habit and gut instinct. We are very bad at weighing short term pros and cons against deferred pros and cons. Additionally, as we age, we get more and more risk averse. FORCE yourself to use your logic, and statistics, not your feelings. Quit your job today!

gt7152b

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2015, 12:05:58 PM »
Your best options:

1) Quit now
2) Start throwing your weight around. You are in a position of strength. You have the leverage to quit at any moment. Make the workplace what you want it to be and if they fire you so be it. Make it clear that your vacation schedule is non- negotiable.

Exflyboy

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2015, 12:14:31 PM »
Your best options:

1) Quit now
2) Start throwing your weight around. You are in a position of strength. You have the leverage to quit at any moment. Make the workplace what you want it to be and if they fire you so be it. Make it clear that your vacation schedule is non- negotiable.

I did #2 and got fired.. they gave me money ( quite a lot of it) to leave.. gosh darn that was hard .. NOT!...:)

Numbers Man

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2015, 12:34:29 PM »
You are a prolific saver. Go on your vacation and never go back to work. Make sure you make all of those cancelled vacation trips this year.

former player

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2015, 12:47:40 PM »
OP: you are institutionalised.

It's time for you to break out of prison.

And send us a postcard from your place in the sun.

Frankies Girl

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2015, 01:10:13 PM »
Get out now. You have a finite number of days left to live, and they should NOT be spent in an awful work environment and making yourself miserable. At this point, it may take you months to years to detox from the stress and oppression you've accepted as normal... give yourself permission to leave now.

Spend the next month or so figuring out details your yearly spending (if you haven't already), insurance coverage (ACA allows you to get coverage any time you lose your insurance - including quitting a job), what your job will owe you in untaken vacation time (oh, my yes) and optimizing your cash and investment flows and get it all planned out. And then turn in your notice.

Having a plan lessens the fear of leaving. You deserve to get out of that place and should not devote one more day to just putting up with it. Start plotting your exit strategy and make this summer your first of many as a free man.


And I know about being institutionalized in a soul-sucking job; just quit mine this past March. In the beginning I was pretty sure I was making a horrible mistake, but I made copious plans, researched everything I could, and am just now starting to feel free... and happier than I've felt in YEARS. And we're going to be fine.

It will work out - you just have to take the plunge.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 01:12:17 PM by Frankies Girl »

Mr. Green

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2015, 01:20:19 PM »
OP: you are institutionalised.

It's time for you to break out of prison.

And send us a postcard from your place in the sun.
I thought of The Shawshank Redemption too!

AlwaysBeenASaver

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2015, 01:31:10 PM »
Quitting is scary, especially after having a nice income for so long.

Please quit your job and go on your summer trip to Cape Cod. If retiring is too difficult/scary, plan to get another job after your summer trip. Maybe you'll decide not to after tasting a few months of freedom. And if you still decide to get another job later, you can choose one that you love, even if it's low paying, since the income isn't important.

velocistar237

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2015, 01:34:49 PM »
Why can't I pull the trigger on leaving work? ...  I've presented the my situation to several people I know and I was surprised how many of them said to keep working.

Here are some common reasons people stay at their job:
Social pressure; worry about impact on relationships with family and friends
Identity tied up with career
Worry about finances
Don't know what you would do with your time
Don't know who you would socialize with during the day
Change is scary

I suggest taking some baby steps, like finding and talking to an early retiree face to face about your concerns, hiring a fee-only financial planner to go over your situation, taking a staycation, and brainstorming a giant list of ideas for how you could spend your time once freed from your employer (like volunteering, part-time job, different job, leisure activities).

These actions are completely manageable and would help you understand and maybe get over your reluctance to quit.

Jellyfish

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2015, 01:40:18 PM »
OP: Your financial position gives you a position of power from which to negotiate with your employer.  If something is holding you back from quitting outright at this point, you still have the leverage to make some demands because you have that option in your back pocket.  You've not been the squeaky wheel...you ask for time off, they say no, you accept it.  Time to be the squeaky wheel and let them know that if you don't get that vacation time, or better hours, or more flexibility, or...whatever...you are ready and prepared to walk.  It's amazing what an employer will do when they realize you are willing to walk away.

marty998

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2015, 03:57:05 PM »
OP: you are institutionalised.

It's time for you to break out of prison.

And send us a postcard from your place in the sun.
I thought of The Shawshank Redemption too!

"Get busy living, or get busy dying"

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2015, 05:06:23 PM »
Quit now. If all the numbers you have listed are really accurate you have enough to FIRE several times over.

I know people who have done something for so long, that it has become a part of them. You've worked for the same company for over 30 years. It probably feels like part of your identity at this point. Fear of change can be paralyzing for some, even in the face of an miserable situation. I don't know if that applies to you or not. It sure sounds like you're going to miss out on some really fun trips. You really do have more than enough to FIRE. Personally, I'd give my two week notice and enjoy those trips. Each day only happens once.

Yes, the numbers are accurate. A big help is I can live fine on 30-32k a year or even less. As far as my job being my identity, I don't know. I would never apply for my job as a new employee. I work in a hospital and six years ago it was taken over by a for profit hospital chain. Things slowly changed at first but the last few years they picked up the pace of the negative changes to today's horrendous conditions. I think their goal is to get the long time workers to leave and hire new, cheaper workers.

forummm

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2015, 05:12:47 PM »
Quit now. If all the numbers you have listed are really accurate you have enough to FIRE several times over.

I know people who have done something for so long, that it has become a part of them. You've worked for the same company for over 30 years. It probably feels like part of your identity at this point. Fear of change can be paralyzing for some, even in the face of an miserable situation. I don't know if that applies to you or not. It sure sounds like you're going to miss out on some really fun trips. You really do have more than enough to FIRE. Personally, I'd give my two week notice and enjoy those trips. Each day only happens once.

Yes, the numbers are accurate. A big help is I can live fine on 30-32k a year or even less. As far as my job being my identity, I don't know. I would never apply for my job as a new employee. I work in a hospital and six years ago it was taken over by a for profit hospital chain. Things slowly changed at first but the last few years they picked up the pace of the negative changes to today's horrendous conditions. I think their goal is to get the long time workers to leave and hire new, cheaper workers.

It sounds like you should help them meet their goal. You can get another job, or volunteer, if you still want something structured to do. But do yourself a favor and GTFO. Non-profit organizations are always looking for people with medical-related skills (if that's what you do at the hospital).

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2015, 05:15:23 PM »
1. Probably have 80x yearly expenses saved

This.

Great Garbonzo Beans Batman!  80x would give you a 1.25% withdrawal rate.    Not only can you retire, you can eat out every day, buy a new car every 3 years, and spend a month a year in Europe/wherever.  About 25x expenses is generally considered "FU money". 

Bare minimum, quit *that* job and do something else.  You will not suffer the tiniest if you have to take a 30% paycut.  Just get out of the toxic environment.  Maybe get a gig serving burgers at the little 18th hole restaurant at your favorite golf club.  Fun.  You are on the course.  Prolly tee time benefits.  You shouldn't give a rip about the money.

You could also take half a million and open just about any franchise known to man.  Are you a dirty old man?  Maybe Hooters/Twin Peaks or some other "breastaurant."   You mentioned Golf.  Maybe a Golfsmith franchise if they do business that way.

You. Have. Options.

Good tips thanks. As far as having whatever X yearly expenses saved, is that really accurate? That number doesn't seem to account for inflation. Example, a 30k per year withdrawal rate today will need to be much, much higher in 30 years for the same buying power.

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2015, 05:24:59 PM »
Its probably fear.. if its anything like me it is. I have 75X of projected spend (assuming I keep our rentals), plus a $15k pension next year and a similar one for my Wife in 8 years time... Yeah its a bit overkill..:)

I quit but I can't resist some p.t work that's profitable that filled the coffers a bit more.

Its a valid concern, I mean if your 80 and run out of money your likely not going to be able to walk into a 6 figure job, so why not stuff the mattress a bit more now?

The problem of course is that when is enough enough? In your head I'm sure you have calculated over and over and realize that logically you CAN retire.. believing it in your heart is another matter though.

I think if the numbers are really showing you have 80X spending saved (plus a pension in 9 years time).. Well then you need to say F it.. and just dive off the high board and see what happens.

You'll do just fine.

You're hit the nail on the head -  "when is enough enough".  I know logically I can do it. Just like you said tho, why not stuff the mattress a little more? Then I think a little more,  little more and get stuck in a never ending "more".

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2015, 05:34:18 PM »
I've presented the my situation to several people I know and I was surprised how many of them said to keep working.

How many of these people are already retired? Or inclined to think that there is even the possibility of retirement before 60? My gut says zero. 

You know in your heart that this is an emotional issue, not a financial one. If you need to, find a therapist that has experience with people shifting into retirement. Or just sit down and envision what your post-job life will be like. If its not a clear picture, figure out the details until it is.
I was actually thinking of the therapist angle. Maybe it's worth a shot.

The people that suggested I keep working were all retired over 62 and retired. Some are retired 25+ years. Many of them came from different life events than me. Some were youngsters during the Great Depression and lived thru how uncertain the world was and how hard money was to obtain. They have the save for a rainy day mentality and fear for the worst circumstances to occur.  Better to oversave than run out of money is how they think.

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2015, 05:43:29 PM »
Your best options:

1) Quit now
2) Start throwing your weight around. You are in a position of strength. You have the leverage to quit at any moment. Make the workplace what you want it to be and if they fire you so be it. Make it clear that your vacation schedule is non- negotiable.

I did #2 and got fired.. they gave me money ( quite a lot of it) to leave.. gosh darn that was hard .. NOT!...:)

I don't need to know your specific details, but generally if an employee was fired why would the employer give you money to leave? The only way I could see this happening is with a discrimination claim.

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2015, 05:54:33 PM »
Get out now. You have a finite number of days left to live, and they should NOT be spent in an awful work environment and making yourself miserable. At this point, it may take you months to years to detox from the stress and oppression you've accepted as normal... give yourself permission to leave now.

Spend the next month or so figuring out details your yearly spending (if you haven't already), insurance coverage (ACA allows you to get coverage any time you lose your insurance - including quitting a job), what your job will owe you in untaken vacation time (oh, my yes) and optimizing your cash and investment flows and get it all planned out. And then turn in your notice.

Having a plan lessens the fear of leaving. You deserve to get out of that place and should not devote one more day to just putting up with it. Start plotting your exit strategy and make this summer your first of many as a free man.


And I know about being institutionalized in a soul-sucking job; just quit mine this past March. In the beginning I was pretty sure I was making a horrible mistake, but I made copious plans, researched everything I could, and am just now starting to feel free... and happier than I've felt in YEARS. And we're going to be fine.

It will work out - you just have to take the plunge.

Wow, thanks for your response. You described my situation to tee. I've felt the workplace was toxic and even has affected my health. By BP med dose has been doubled. And even a day or two off is not enough to recover both physically and mentally. I think it will take months or longer as you suggested. I hope the happiness comes back for me too.


FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2015, 05:59:41 PM »
OP: Your financial position gives you a position of power from which to negotiate with your employer.  If something is holding you back from quitting outright at this point, you still have the leverage to make some demands because you have that option in your back pocket.  You've not been the squeaky wheel...you ask for time off, they say no, you accept it.  Time to be the squeaky wheel and let them know that if you don't get that vacation time, or better hours, or more flexibility, or...whatever...you are ready and prepared to walk.  It's amazing what an employer will do when they realize you are willing to walk away.

Good thoughts. But I sincerely think they won't care if I quit. In fact, I think it's their goal for all senior workers to quit. The reason -  they could hire new, younger workers and save $$$$. That's all they care about $$$$.

AlwaysBeenASaver

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2015, 06:00:18 PM »
I don't need to know your specific details, but generally if an employee was fired why would the employer give you money to leave? The only way I could see this happening is with a discrimination claim.
I don't know if this is the case in his situation, but I've worked at several places where when they fired people, they would give them money in exchange for signing a form not to sue them for any reason.

velocistar237

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2015, 06:19:21 PM »
Good tips thanks. As far as having whatever X yearly expenses saved, is that really accurate? That number doesn't seem to account for inflation. Example, a 30k per year withdrawal rate today will need to be much, much higher in 30 years for the same buying power.

33x should last forever accounting for inflation, barring apocalypse. I'm planning on retiring with 25x and a willingness to be flexible if the market goes south. I have a 70/30 stock/bond split.

80x is the highest I've seen on this forum, even among the retirees. Maybe MMM has that by now from his blog income, but he retired at about 25x.

Bearded Man

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2015, 06:30:09 PM »
Your best options:

1) Quit now
2) Start throwing your weight around. You are in a position of strength. You have the leverage to quit at any moment. Make the workplace what you want it to be and if they fire you so be it. Make it clear that your vacation schedule is non- negotiable.


Agreed. I'd say quit now because you have waaay more than you need and are already pretty dang close to normal retirement age; go and LIVE!

That said, if you can't get yourself to stop working, the simple solution to this is to get a different job. I know it's hard to do because you are 30 years emotionally invested into it but it will allow you the emotional comfort of working but also alleviate the pain of what sounds like an absolutely incompetent management.

Exflyboy

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2015, 06:35:36 PM »
Your best options:

1) Quit now
2) Start throwing your weight around. You are in a position of strength. You have the leverage to quit at any moment. Make the workplace what you want it to be and if they fire you so be it. Make it clear that your vacation schedule is non- negotiable.

I did #2 and got fired.. they gave me money ( quite a lot of it) to leave.. gosh darn that was hard .. NOT!...:)

I don't need to know your specific details, but generally if an employee was fired why would the employer give you money to leave? The only way I could see this happening is with a discrimination claim.

Well this employer is reknowned for its poor treatment of employees.. I guess they feel they are at risk of getting sued so they pay off the people they fire (and they fire a LOT of great people). In exchange for a signature saying you won't sue them.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2015, 06:37:26 PM »

Good tips thanks. As far as having whatever X yearly expenses saved, is that really accurate? That number doesn't seem to account for inflation. Example, a 30k per year withdrawal rate today will need to be much, much higher in 30 years for the same buying power.

It is generally considered accurate if you have at least 40% of your portfolio in equities, which will rise with inflation.

Exflyboy

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2015, 06:47:41 PM »
Good tips thanks. As far as having whatever X yearly expenses saved, is that really accurate? That number doesn't seem to account for inflation. Example, a 30k per year withdrawal rate today will need to be much, much higher in 30 years for the same buying power.

33x should last forever accounting for inflation, barring apocalypse. I'm planning on retiring with 25x and a willingness to be flexible if the market goes south. I have a 70/30 stock/bond split.

80x is the highest I've seen on this forum, even among the retirees. Maybe MMM has that by now from his blog income, but he retired at about 25x.

Hehe.. If I take my pension next year and keep the rentals I will be at 300X.... oops..:)

Last years spend was $28k (call it 30).. add $5k for the ACA.. gives a projected spend of $35k... Minus rent ($15k), minus my pension ($15k) = $5k

$1.5M (liquid)/$5k = 300

That's not including the paid off house, or my Wife's pension (about $16k in 8 years time, SS or my UK state pension which is tiny).

now will we stick at 300X.. highly unlikely, I suspect we'll spend a lot on travel when the Wife quits work.


« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 06:52:20 PM by Exflyboy »

ny.er

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2015, 07:33:22 PM »
if you insist on taking the vacations you want and they fire you, at least you'll get unemployment insurance. Not that you need the money, but my experience is that some employers don't like firing people because then they have to pay higher ui premiums. This may be why they're trying to make you miserable enough to just quit. Good luck, and have fun planning your escape, and the free time you've earned.

pbkmaine

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2015, 07:43:13 PM »
If they want to get rid of older workers, why not take advantage of it? Tell them you would love to retire, but need a package. See what they come up with. That's what my husband did, and got a very nice deal.

lhamo

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2015, 10:12:45 PM »
I hope you will quit sooner rather than later.  You certainly have the financial resources to do so. 

The high blood pressure is a real concern.  I have always had very low blood pressure.  But about 6 weeks ago when I went in for a physical my BP was up to 148/93 or something like that.  I was under a lot of stress at the time, much of it work related (see my journal for details), and was having panic attacks regularly at work. 

I resigned four weeks ago.  When I had my BP checked again about 10 days after I quit, it had gone back down to the 120/80 range. 

I feel so much better mentally and physically knowing that I only have 16 more days in the office!  I'm sure you will, too.  Get your medical stuff taken care of while you are still on your insurance, but make plans to get the hell out of Dodge so that you can enjoy your planned trips with your friends and family.  If they fire you for that, get a good employment opportunity (you can afford it) and sue the pants off of them.  Same thing if you stay on long enough to get into shot season.  Play hardball and milk them for all you can if they are going to play that game.  But seriously, I would plan on leaving sooner rather than later.  YOu have the rest of your life to enjoy -- why give one minute more of it to those people?

Duchess of Stratosphear

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2015, 10:08:55 AM »
The effect this job seems to be having on your health is nothing to mess around with! I sincerely hope you get the hell out of there and get some sleep, do things you love, and find a way to put your skills to use in a way that lets you relax. Please come back and tell us the story so we can live vicariously!

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2015, 10:21:57 AM »
If they want to get rid of older workers, why not take advantage of it? Tell them you would love to retire, but need a package. See what they come up with. That's what my husband did, and got a very nice deal.

Good idea. When you say tell them, who is them? My direct boss, her boss, HR director, someone else? Or all of the above?

FrancisinPa

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2015, 10:26:16 AM »
I don't need to know your specific details, but generally if an employee was fired why would the employer give you money to leave? The only way I could see this happening is with a discrimination claim.
I don't know if this is the case in his situation, but I've worked at several places where when they fired people, they would give them money in exchange for signing a form not to sue them for any reason.

Former workers that I knew who quit or were fired were asked to sign that release not to sue. But I've never heard any receiving money to sign the form.

Exflyboy

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2015, 10:40:15 AM »
I don't need to know your specific details, but generally if an employee was fired why would the employer give you money to leave? The only way I could see this happening is with a discrimination claim.
I don't know if this is the case in his situation, but I've worked at several places where when they fired people, they would give them money in exchange for signing a form not to sue them for any reason.

Former workers that I knew who quit or were fired were asked to sign that release not to sue. But I've never heard any receiving money to sign the form.

I was surprised too, but it is a standard HR procedure in this Fortune 500 company. of course the manager's don't want to see the cost hit their budget so they try to get you to leave without paying you. I was very surprised how easy it was to talk them into paying out.

okits

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2015, 11:40:47 PM »
I don't need to know your specific details, but generally if an employee was fired why would the employer give you money to leave? The only way I could see this happening is with a discrimination claim.
I don't know if this is the case in his situation, but I've worked at several places where when they fired people, they would give them money in exchange for signing a form not to sue them for any reason.

Former workers that I knew who quit or were fired were asked to sign that release not to sue. But I've never heard any receiving money to sign the form.

Know relevant employment law in your state, what is/isn't allowed or customary.  Personally, I would not voluntarily sign away any of my freedoms unless receiving something in return (employment, payment, or some other consideration.)

Exhale

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2015, 10:53:26 AM »
I agree with the folks advocating baby steps. A thinking partner (could be a therapist, life coach, etc.) will probably be of great help. Also, I think you need to go play a bit (it'll help free up your creative side). Make an bucket list of some desired experiences and then take time to try them out. (Note: It may be best if you leave town so as to really take a break from you current situation.)

I think you'll retire when you have something to retire to (vs. retiring from).

Good luck!
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 10:54:59 AM by Exhale »

lifejoy

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2015, 05:19:12 PM »
I think you could really benefit from the livingaFI blog: www.livingafi.com

Someone please correct me that's not the right url- I'm on my iPad and it's hard to switch out of tapatalk to a browser :)

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2015, 06:56:17 AM »
I think you could really benefit from the livingaFI blog: www.livingafi.com

Someone please correct me that's not the right url- I'm on my iPad and it's hard to switch out of tapatalk to a browser :)

Yup, that is our own Dr. Doom's site.

Great articles. The article on Midlife FI-sis (http://livingafi.com/2015/01/20/midlife-fi-sis/)  made me understand what I was going thru.

Gone Fishing

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2015, 07:17:17 AM »
I think their goal is to get the long time workers to leave and hire new, cheaper workers.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

My dad had a 2 week fishing trip planned one year and they came in the day before he was supposed to leave and told him he couldn't go.  He called in from the Canadian border and told them he would not be coming in (FU money at work).  They didn't fire him.

Know relevant employment law in your state, what is/isn't allowed or customary.  Personally, I would not voluntarily sign away any of my freedoms unless receiving something in return (employment, payment, or some other consideration.)

+1 You are leaving, they can't MAKE you sign anything.  I bet HR people try to pass it off like just some form needed to process you last paycheck or something.

slackmax

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2015, 03:04:28 PM »
Francis, I can relate to your problem. I was FI for a few years but didn't quit because I just didn't "feel"  like I wanted to. I wondered what I would do with all my free time. Over the years of working I had developed thick  callouses in that area  in my mind that allows pleasure, self-worth, kindness, and other good things. If I retired, would I ever be able to get rid of those callouses and enjoy life again? Kind of a scary thought. Anyway, I the clusterF at work go so intense that I got fired, so I didn't have to quit.  That was about 2 years ago. I have had more trouble enjoying retirement than I thought I would. But its still better than the BS at work, of course. Try to plan out what sort of activities you want to partake in before exiting.  Good Luck.   

arebelspy

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2015, 03:37:34 PM »
We can't FIRE for you.  You already know the answers to the questions you seek. 

I hope you find what you are looking for Francis.

Welcome to the forums.  :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Pooperman

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2015, 09:55:02 AM »
We can't FIRE for you.  You already know the answers to the questions you seek. 

I hope you find what you are looking for Francis.

Welcome to the forums.  :)

I can FIRE for you. Just send check or money order for $1 million. You get the job, I'll get the freedom!

arebelspy

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2015, 09:57:21 AM »
We can't FIRE for you.  You already know the answers to the questions you seek. 

I hope you find what you are looking for Francis.

Welcome to the forums.  :)

I can FIRE for you. Just send check or money order for $1 million. You get the job, I'll get the freedom!



Well played.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Liberty Stache

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2015, 10:04:47 AM »
OP: you are institutionalised.

It's time for you to break out of prison.

And send us a postcard from your place in the sun.
I thought of The Shawshank Redemption too!

"Get busy living, or get busy dying"

+1

margarita

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Re: FI, horrible workplace yet I stay. Why?
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2015, 06:24:22 PM »
Quit.  I understand, believe me. 

Last December I was off work for surgery.  Work had been a rollcoaster for years but lately had plummeted to new lows.  Soul sucking, hand wringing, drinking too much after a stressful day, sleeping pills to sleep at night.   At home recovering from surgery,  as the date drew closer to return to work I started to panic about going back to that hell hole.  Every night my husband would come home from work to  find me crying on the couch.  I was starting the countdown on the days until I return.  He was the one who suggested that I retire now.  Literally I would ask over and over and over, "really?  is it possible?  I can retire?  You mean I never have to go back there?"  I could not wrap my head around it. 

I am 56 and I planned to work until 60.  It just went against everything in my work ethic, upbringing whatever to "bail" 4 years early.  I just about drove my husband crazy asking him repeatedly "is it possible, really? really? give up a "good" government job? You mean I don't have to work 4 more years?" 

Finally, as the day grew closer to return to work after surgery, I decided that I won't make a decision now I will wait and see how I feel after I get back to work.  Long story short, two days back to work and I was done. 

FUCK you assholes!  I typed up my letter giving two weeks notice and with outstanding vacation owing I only had to work 4 days.  I spent three days dealing with hell, shit hitting the fan and taking a moment here and there to shred.  Shred shred shred.  Day 4 morning I handed in all my company property (badge, etc.)  Before going to lunch with my co-workers I told my boss I won't be back after lunch.   My heart was pounding at the elevator like I had robbed the bank, broke out of prision, escaped from being held hostage, got away with murder, you get the picture. 

Not for a second have I regretted it.  I am eating homecooked meals (made by moi), drinking is probably 1/3 of what I was drinking.  No more sleeping pills.  Gym 5 days a week. 

I did feel guilty in the beginning that my husband is still working but now, not so much.  The stress on him is far less, we are not rushing around trying to grocery shop, clean the house, yardwork etc.   He loves it because he sees I am finally happy.  I am putting my health first now instead of last.  I have had two surgeries in two years and have a few other medical issues that need attention. 

I know it sounds crazy but I think I had PTSD (mild).  The first couple of weeks I apparently was crying, shouting and screaming in my sleep.  It seems insane now and it was only last month. 

FU money is the truth.  I get up when I want.  I go to bed when I want and in between I do what I want. 
I know it sounds arrogant but on a beautiful day like today, I was sitting out in the backyard reading a book with a coffee thinking how great life is now and "I am far too rich to put up with their bullshit"