Author Topic: EU Resident Post-FIRE?  (Read 1685 times)

brooklynmoney

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EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« on: September 13, 2020, 03:50:38 PM »
Hi,

One idea I toy with is moving to an EU country for at least part (if not full time) during FIRE. I  am exploring getting my Italian citizenship recognized by the Italian government (you do not become Italian you either are or are not and the process that you go through is simply to secure official recognition of your Italian citizenship). I have also loosely explored gaining access through so called "golden visas" in places like Portugal. I know these are controversial in EU and they might end or alter them. But I'm not looking to launder money or anything crazy, just a nice place to retire with affordable/accessible healthcare. That said, the places I would want to live seem to (many of  them) have wealth taxes which I'm really not keen on paying. Anyone move to an EU country that does not charge a wealth tax or have other onerous tax burdens but is accessible through a program like the golden visas? If so, which country?

ysette9

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2020, 04:20:28 PM »
I registered as a UK citizen in a similar way after learning on these very forums I was eligible in the aftermath of the last presidential elections. I recently sent off my paperwork for my UK passport application. I donít have specific plans yet because I am on a slow campaign of persuasion with my spouse to give England a try. With the current administration and covid and frankly now being home bound with disastrous wildfire air quality, escaping sounds more and more attractive.

I think you go through the idea methodically:
If you can register as a citizen, do that first. Then get a passport. Then look into what it will take to get visas for any accompanying family members. That is my plan. Then theoretically we would move over and then use some time to learn about the new area and systems before figuring out what the best local place is to suit us.

Paul der Krake

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2020, 04:27:15 PM »
Wealth taxes are only part of the equation. Be mindful of exit taxes.

Example: https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/international-en/questions/do-i-have-pay-exit-tax

Things get very complicated very fast when you deal with international taxation.

brooklynmoney

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2020, 05:08:57 PM »
Wealth taxes are only part of the equation. Be mindful of exit taxes.

Example: https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/international-en/questions/do-i-have-pay-exit-tax

Things get very complicated very fast when you deal with international taxation.

I agree. I'm hoping to  be lazy and find someone who  has done the research already haha. In reality I  would  never make a move like this w/out consulting an  intl tax  attorney/local tax attorney. I have never even heard of an exit tax oy.  Will research.

brooklynmoney

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2020, 05:11:48 PM »
I registered as a UK citizen in a similar way after learning on these very forums I was eligible in the aftermath of the last presidential elections. I recently sent off my paperwork for my UK passport application. I donít have specific plans yet because I am on a slow campaign of persuasion with my spouse to give England a try. With the current administration and covid and frankly now being home bound with disastrous wildfire air quality, escaping sounds more and more attractive.

I think you go through the idea methodically:
If you can register as a citizen, do that first. Then get a passport. Then look into what it will take to get visas for any accompanying family members. That is my plan. Then theoretically we would move over and then use some time to learn about the new area and systems before figuring out what the best local place is to suit us.

Thanks for sharing your experience, @ysette9. I have a friend who is in the process for Ireland and if the next election does not go her way here int the US, she's off. UK would be lovely. That said I wonder if Brexit will limit EU options. I especially wonder what will happen to all those UK citizens living in France. I know France does not want them to go I'm sure they will make some accomodation.

Paul der Krake

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2020, 05:19:57 PM »
Well, assuming you do not already have a second passport from another EU country, you absolutely should pursue getting your Italian citizenship recognized. Regardless of which country you may end up in later.

Having a passport from an EU country that lets you keep your US passport (not all do, or not easily) is an invaluable asset. Immediate ability to move anywhere in the EEA (which is the EU plus a couple associated states), and all their overseas territories. Bringing your spouse and kids along too.

Do it now while the rules allow it. There is no good reason to put it off, and plenty of downside to not seizing the opportunity while you have it.

For all intents and purposes, EU citizens will continue for the foreseeable future to bewelcome to work in the UK as they are today. Not doing so would be catastrophic for everyone involved. EU retirees, I wouldnít be so sure.

brooklynmoney

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2020, 05:43:28 PM »
Thanks, @Paul der Krake. I have a friend in London who just went through the Italian process and it took 2 years and several thousand but I agree seems worth it. I know there was an article in the NY Times recently about the big surge in interest i doing this. It might take even longer now.

ysette9

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2020, 07:31:14 PM »
Thanks, @Paul der Krake. I have a friend in London who just went through the Italian process and it took 2 years and several thousand but I agree seems worth it. I know there was an article in the NY Times recently about the big surge in interest i doing this. It might take even longer now.
That is interesting that it took so long and was so expensive. For the UK it didnít take too long to process (maybe a month or two?) and I donít think I paid more than maybe £150. I donít remember the details now as it was two years ago. The passport is costing my another £150 or so, though half of that is the cost of shipping documents certified mail halfway across the globe.

Brexit is certainly a disappointing setback but I agree that there will likely continue to be some options between the UK and Europe. I absolutely agree that having some option for Plan B in your back pocket is a good idea. It makes me feel better at least.

daverobev

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2020, 12:37:48 AM »
@ysette9 remember you can move to Ireland with a UK passport even after Brexit, due to pre-existing agreements. Assuming the UK doesn't go completely mad and tear up everything.

Re: exit tax - not at all uncommon. I mean, the thing is the US is one of only a few countries that taxes non-resident citizens (or at least makes you file a return - AFAIK the thresholds to actually pay any US tax are high), and that also makes it difficult/impossible to use other countries' tax shelters. Actually that France one is pretty benign. Complex, but benign.

jim555

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2020, 06:44:12 AM »
I registered as a UK citizen in a similar way after learning on these very forums I was eligible in the aftermath of the last presidential elections. I recently sent off my paperwork for my UK passport application. I donít have specific plans yet because I am on a slow campaign of persuasion with my spouse to give England a try. With the current administration and covid and frankly now being home bound with disastrous wildfire air quality, escaping sounds more and more attractive.

I think you go through the idea methodically:
If you can register as a citizen, do that first. Then get a passport. Then look into what it will take to get visas for any accompanying family members. That is my plan. Then theoretically we would move over and then use some time to learn about the new area and systems before figuring out what the best local place is to suit us.
The UK has weird nationality laws.  If you have a British father and born outside the UK you are a citizen automatically.  Due to history, nationality did not pass via mothers, only fathers.  They realized that this was sexism and changed the law.  If you have a British mother or father post 1983 you are automatically a citizen by operation of law.  If you have a British mother pre 1983 you would need to register as citizen and have a citizenship ceremony to get a Registration certificate.  Then apply for a passport.  "By descent" only applies to one generation down.  If you have British grandparents and you are from a Commonwealth country then you can get a 5 year Ancestry visa.  Merely being born on British soil does not confer citizenship, at least one parent needs to have "settled status" or better for the baby to be a British citizen.

daverobev

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2020, 07:20:15 AM »
I registered as a UK citizen in a similar way after learning on these very forums I was eligible in the aftermath of the last presidential elections. I recently sent off my paperwork for my UK passport application. I donít have specific plans yet because I am on a slow campaign of persuasion with my spouse to give England a try. With the current administration and covid and frankly now being home bound with disastrous wildfire air quality, escaping sounds more and more attractive.

I think you go through the idea methodically:
If you can register as a citizen, do that first. Then get a passport. Then look into what it will take to get visas for any accompanying family members. That is my plan. Then theoretically we would move over and then use some time to learn about the new area and systems before figuring out what the best local place is to suit us.
The UK has weird nationality laws.  If you have a British father and born outside the UK you are a citizen automatically.  Due to history, nationality did not pass via mothers, only fathers.  They realized that this was sexism and changed the law.  If you have a British mother or father post 1983 you are automatically a citizen by operation of law.  If you have a British mother pre 1983 you would need to register as citizen and have a citizenship ceremony to get a Registration certificate.  Then apply for a passport.  "By descent" only applies to one generation down.  If you have British grandparents and you are from a Commonwealth country then you can get a 5 year Ancestry visa.  Merely being born on British soil does not confer citizenship, at least one parent needs to have "settled status" or better for the baby to be a British citizen.

Seems very reasonable to me? Accidental Americans is such a weird concept - oh, because you were born in the US by mistake (maybe a day trip down from Canada went awry), with two NOT American parents, you're American?

I think the US is the exception rather than the rule on this.

jim555

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2020, 07:49:19 AM »

Seems very reasonable to me? Accidental Americans is such a weird concept - oh, because you were born in the US by mistake (maybe a day trip down from Canada went awry), with two NOT American parents, you're American?

I think the US is the exception rather than the rule on this.
Pre-1983 babies born on British soil used to be automatic citizens, then they changed the nationality law.

ysette9

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2020, 11:12:52 AM »
@ysette9 remember you can move to Ireland with a UK passport even after Brexit, due to pre-existing agreements. Assuming the UK doesn't go completely mad and tear up everything.

Re: exit tax - not at all uncommon. I mean, the thing is the US is one of only a few countries that taxes non-resident citizens (or at least makes you file a return - AFAIK the thresholds to actually pay any US tax are high), and that also makes it difficult/impossible to use other countries' tax shelters. Actually that France one is pretty benign. Complex, but benign.
I thought an exit tax was only if you were giving up your citizenship? Otherwise you retain the pleasure of filing yearly tax returns regardless of where you live in the world. Iíve read that the US and N Korea are the two nations that tax their citizens overseas. Though that isnít totally comparable as N Korea just goes ahead and takes all of the wages of those it sends overseas to work...

Paul der Krake

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2020, 12:28:37 PM »
Exit taxes: itís not that simple. It really just depends on the home country, the target country, and a million other things. Rule #1 of international taxation: never rely on rules of thumb, hearsay, or logic.

Regarding birthright citizenship: long story short there is a trend of countries getting rid of it. And frankly itís probably a good thing. It was a nice, universal idea in the beginning of the era of modern nation states. Itís archaic and creates all sorts of shit incentives in the age of $200 transoceanic flights. I expect most first world countries to do away with it within the next decade or two.

daverobev

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2020, 12:52:28 PM »
@ysette9 remember you can move to Ireland with a UK passport even after Brexit, due to pre-existing agreements. Assuming the UK doesn't go completely mad and tear up everything.

Re: exit tax - not at all uncommon. I mean, the thing is the US is one of only a few countries that taxes non-resident citizens (or at least makes you file a return - AFAIK the thresholds to actually pay any US tax are high), and that also makes it difficult/impossible to use other countries' tax shelters. Actually that France one is pretty benign. Complex, but benign.
I thought an exit tax was only if you were giving up your citizenship? Otherwise you retain the pleasure of filing yearly tax returns regardless of where you live in the world. Iíve read that the US and N Korea are the two nations that tax their citizens overseas. Though that isnít totally comparable as N Korea just goes ahead and takes all of the wages of those it sends overseas to work...

Sorry, the 2nd para wasn't directed towards you. Yes, there's no "exit" from the US. Eritrea is another, and that's about it I think. Canada has an exit tax (asset values as if you'd sold them - "deemed disposition"), France has one which I dread to think how you deal with it because you can defer it and then eventually avoid it if you hold for fifteen years *after* leaving.. thought it might've recently changed to two years. I don't know. Don't have to worry about it for ten years at the very least, if ever.

UK doesn't. Lovely UK. Shame about the Brexit clusterfuck. But that's another topic entirely.

UnleashHell

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2020, 02:37:18 PM »

UK doesn't. Lovely UK. Shame about the Brexit clusterfuck. But that's another topic entirely.
Ha yeah.
Though I'd be good by having US and UK citizenship.
thanks Brexit.


huge shout out to my grandfather who was born in Ireland. must start working on that passport application....


jim555

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2020, 04:01:39 PM »
@ysette9 remember you can move to Ireland with a UK passport even after Brexit, due to pre-existing agreements. Assuming the UK doesn't go completely mad and tear up everything.
The Common Travel Area of the gives the right of abode between United Kingdom, Ireland, the Isle of Man, and the Channel Islands.  It is a pathway to an EU passport (Irish), settle in the Republic of Ireland for 5 years and naturalize.

ItsALongStory

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2020, 09:03:23 PM »
My wife looked into Italian citizenship and while it's probably one of the easier ones, it's still going to require some documentation to get it done. She spent some time doing geneaology in Italy and it was very tough to find records.

Thankfully I am a European citizen so I was able to get her to join me as my spouse in our move from the US to Europe. We are actually on the plane ride at this very moment, super excited for what the future holds.

ysette9

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2020, 09:06:35 PM »
My wife looked into Italian citizenship and while it's probably one of the easier ones, it's still going to require some documentation to get it done. She spent some time doing geneaology in Italy and it was very tough to find records.

Thankfully I am a European citizen so I was able to get her to join me as my spouse in our move from the US to Europe. We are actually on the plane ride at this very moment, super excited for what the future holds.
Exciting! Congrats. Where are you going?

rockstache

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2020, 07:48:21 AM »
My wife looked into Italian citizenship and while it's probably one of the easier ones, it's still going to require some documentation to get it done. She spent some time doing geneaology in Italy and it was very tough to find records.

Thankfully I am a European citizen so I was able to get her to join me as my spouse in our move from the US to Europe. We are actually on the plane ride at this very moment, super excited for what the future holds.

Good luck in Europe! That is exciting.

We are also doing the Italian citizenship thing. We have all the records gathered, but just need to start working on the apostille and translation part - which frankly seems like the hard part!

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2020, 08:39:01 AM »
Does anyone have recommendations for finding relocation businesses that can help with all this? Iíve done some cursory searches but itís hard to tell whoís legit and who isnít.

Person whoís flying off to Europe now: arenít there restrictions ATM because of COVID?

brooklynmoney

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2020, 09:18:01 AM »
I know for Italian citizenship there are organizations that can manage the process for a fee. Organizations like this one: https://www.myitalianfamily.com/apply-italian-citizenship/learn-if-you-qualify. Also here is a N.Y. Times article on Americans going through these processes that has resources: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/20/style/golden-visa-second-passport-dual-citizenship.html

ItsALongStory

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2020, 07:08:52 PM »


Person whoís flying off to Europe now: arenít there restrictions ATM because of COVID?

We were not subject to real restrictions since I am a citizen of my destination country. We did get a special visa for my wife, but would have done the same pre-Covid.

We got here yesterday and already did our tests, should hear results today and continue our 14 day quarantine.

ItsALongStory

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2020, 07:09:18 PM »
Thank you @rockstache

Hula Hoop

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2020, 02:10:48 PM »
Italy has an 'elective residency visa' which is essentially a retirement visa.  You have to show a certain income and you're not allowed to work while on it (including remotely).  I've heard that France has something similar. 

Be aware, though, that Italy has a wealth tax on assets held abroad including IRAs, bank accounts and property.

jim555

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2020, 02:31:43 PM »
UK has an inheritance tax of 40% of assets over £325,000.  Something to consider for that "free" healthcare.

brooklynmoney

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2020, 08:01:35 PM »
Italy has an 'elective residency visa' which is essentially a retirement visa.  You have to show a certain income and you're not allowed to work while on it (including remotely).  I've heard that France has something similar. 

Be aware, though, that Italy has a wealth tax on assets held abroad including IRAs, bank accounts and property.

Well this is scary haha

Paul der Krake

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2020, 01:15:29 AM »
Italy has an 'elective residency visa' which is essentially a retirement visa.  You have to show a certain income and you're not allowed to work while on it (including remotely).  I've heard that France has something similar. 

Be aware, though, that Italy has a wealth tax on assets held abroad including IRAs, bank accounts and property.

Well this is scary haha
Wait until you read about the economy, demographics, and debt load... Italians have incredibly hard choices ahead of them. Put down roots there at your own risk. They make France look like a stable, safe option.

daverobev

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2020, 01:20:02 AM »
They make France look like a stable, safe option.

France is a stable, safe option. Versus what?!

Quote from: jim555
UK has an inheritance tax of 40% of assets over £325,000.  Something to consider for that "free" healthcare.

Yeah a mere $400k US before money goes to the state to help people who are alive. Plus there is also an allowance for a primary residence. I'd much rather live somewhere where I am "free" to not get care, or be bankrupted by things outside my control. (/s)

Hula Hoop

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2020, 06:36:03 AM »
They make France look like a stable, safe option.

France is a stable, safe option. Versus what?!

Quote from: jim555
UK has an inheritance tax of 40% of assets over £325,000.  Something to consider for that "free" healthcare.

Yeah a mere $400k US before money goes to the state to help people who are alive. Plus there is also an allowance for a primary residence. I'd much rather live somewhere where I am "free" to not get care, or be bankrupted by things outside my control. (/s)

Same.  And BTW the wealth tax is 0.02% so not a huge deal.  I just pay it and revel in the fact that my daughter's upcoming surgery (her fourth surgery in the 8 years she's been alive) is going to cost me 0 euro.

jim555

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2020, 07:28:03 AM »
Its cheaper for me to be on the ACA and Medicare @ 65 than to be in the UK when all things get considered, and I have a passport.  I may want to move, but finances would not be the reason.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 07:30:54 AM by jim555 »

daverobev

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2020, 11:32:53 AM »
Its cheaper for me to be on the ACA and Medicare @ 65 than to be in the UK when all things get considered, and I have a passport.  I may want to move, but finances would not be the reason.

Just saw this, and it's funny how angry it makes me considering how little the US has to do with me - I am not American, never lived there, only visited a few times.

https://imgur.com/gallery/2KeF7t0

The UK is in the process of killing itself. I don't know what the fuck is going on I really don't - every time I check in, it seems like we're stabbing ourselves in the chest. Brexit is such a mess. It makes me so so sad.

Fact is, healthcare costs money. You have highly trained professionals and expensively developed drugs. It has to be paid for somehow. Life isn't fair, we all know that. And that's fine. But there are certain things we can change, and I think a basic level of care for each and every human being is something we should strive for - to give people the chance to flourish. We're incredibly lucky to be alive compared to even 50, 100 years ago. But we are trashing the planet rapidly due to our shortcomings - our lizard brains supporting strong men in too many nations, the fact we've learned how to manipulate each other extremely effectively before having developed the frameworks to protect us from ourselves.. all very sad.

Here in France the health system is totally bizarre (from the POV of a Brit). In Canada the system is bizarre (ditto). For a non-Brit, I'm sure the same applies to the NHS.

I am biased but I strongly believe the systems at least as perceived by the average person (me) while growing up in the UK are close to the right way of doing things. Tax - you don't have to file a tax return unless you fall outside some pretty wide allowances and whatnot, it's just automatically dealt with. Health - you need to see a doctor, you go to see a doctor. There is no payment. Dentist, there are fixed prices and if you need multiple things you just pay the higher capped amount. Ok so opticians, the eyetest itself is not free and they try to rip you off on the price of glasses, but there are cheap options available if you are poor (and the eye tests are pretty cheap/will be paid for by your company if you do anything screen related, etc).

Perfect no absolutely not. Absolutely not. Unemployment ("the dole") is really low. Social housing waiting lists are ginormous and of course once you're in there is no incentive to do anything that would cause you to lose the benefit. And we're mean now about all this stuff (maybe that's no different). Maybe I have rose tinted specs on - I despised Tony Blair at the time but, Iraq aside ("pretty big aside", yeah I know), they ran things pretty well. I lean conservative but fuck me not this delusional shit.

Education is where it's all at. Not this constant testing, not rote learning, but a place to actually learn and grow, to be able to think for yourself. Critical thinking.. all that.

I really hope we, the west, can turn things around, because all I see is Russia being strong by shitting on their people and bullying, China doing the same - and succeeding. That's what concerns me - we aren't showing a good role model, we aren't standing up to them.

I don't know. I really don't.

brooklynmoney

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2020, 12:05:33 PM »
Thanks everyone who responded this has been very interesting and educational. I think for quality of life reasons I would still prefer to spend time outside the US. Now itís about deciding where!

Paul der Krake

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2020, 04:30:56 PM »
They make France look like a stable, safe option.

France is a stable, safe option. Versus what?!
Itís a safe, stable option on a day to day basis. Itís when you look decades into the future that things get a lot more uncertain. Theyíre not as screwed as Italy but their economy is still mostly uninspiring, the workforce is suffering from mass brain drain, wages are very low, and roughly 30% of the country thinks nobody should be allowed to earn more than 3000 euros a month. They import low skill workers from third world countries and export their educated workers who can have better careers elsewhere. The half million French expats in a London arenít there for the food.


daverobev

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2020, 03:58:06 AM »
They make France look like a stable, safe option.

France is a stable, safe option. Versus what?!
Itís a safe, stable option on a day to day basis. Itís when you look decades into the future that things get a lot more uncertain. Theyíre not as screwed as Italy but their economy is still mostly uninspiring, the workforce is suffering from mass brain drain, wages are very low, and roughly 30% of the country thinks nobody should be allowed to earn more than 3000 euros a month. They import low skill workers from third world countries and export their educated workers who can have better careers elsewhere. The half million French expats in a London arenít there for the food.

Ah, ok. Yes. Well.

Thing is, those low skill imports will have children who will probably grow up and do ok. Do I think "the system" is crazy here, in lots of ways? Absolutely. But they do have a nice quality of life.

Fact is, those with get up and go, well, will. But that's true all over. Hopefully they can make meaningful pension reforms. For a country thats motto is what it is, there is a surprising lack of equality.

It is massively disheartening when I (working through an umbrella company) invoice someone, only to see literally half that money disappear before even being subject to income tax.

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2020, 11:28:01 PM »
Thanks everyone who responded this has been very interesting and educational. I think for quality of life reasons I would still prefer to spend time outside the US. Now itís about deciding where!

I keep thinking this, but none of the options that would be possible are that appealing.

Igelfreundin

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2020, 07:03:46 AM »
OP, I am still living in the US but am researching options in Spain. The wealth tax varies by autonomous region, and is not universal across the country. In Madrid, there is no wealth tax.  There is also an exit tax, but I don't expect to ever have enough net worth to trigger it.

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brooklynmoney

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2020, 08:13:56 PM »
OP, I am still living in the US but am researching options in Spain. The wealth tax varies by autonomous region, and is not universal across the country. In Madrid, there is no wealth tax.  There is also an exit tax, but I don't expect to ever have enough net worth to trigger it.

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Spain would be ideal for me I speak Spanish and I love Michelin star restaurants and surfing and hiking so San SebastiŠn sounds like paradise ha. I know the restaurant thing is not very mustachian. I also adore Bordeaux and being so close to France would be lovely.

Paul der Krake

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Re: EU Resident Post-FIRE?
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2020, 11:31:19 PM »
San Sebastian is great. Highly recommended. Iím the area often because of family in Biarritz across the border. The Basque Country has hands down the best surfing in continental Europe. Fall and spring are the best seasons, overhead swells hit the area like clockwork, no sharks, no dangerous reefs, no agressive locals. In the summer you can lose the wetsuit and trunk it on a longboard. In deep winter you will need booties and gloves but there are a couple of spots that hold triple overhead and more.

Hiking... meh I donít know. Itís mostly cow mountains over there, youíll get bored pretty fast I think. Fantastic for road cycling though. Iíve crossed into Spain accidentally because itís so easy to pick a road and see where it goes.

The Spanish side is significantly cheaper than the French side, you can live like royalty on a very reasonable amount without leaving the first world. Nearby Bilbao is great too but it has a distinction feel thatís very different.

Iíll likely live there at some point.