Escape FIRE - How to get a job in corporate America

[Skyhigh]

Anyone who holds a contrarian view is considered to be a troll. I came here expecting to find my people, but instead, it seems to have encountered those who are largely trying to achieve FIRE and perhaps can not relate to my issues.

I came into FIRE accidentally after being laid off long ago. It was not my goal other than to replace my income. I always expected to be able to return to my career. Since this thread, I have watched others who have achieved FIRE struggle with the same issues. FIRE has a downside. People can lose their sense of purpose. Endless days off become void of their meaning. Volunteering and self-improvement classes seem repetitive. Employment offers more than just compensation. It brings community, belonging, self-esteem, and purpose to one's life.

Our lives are supposed to have meaning other than merely existing to indulge ourselves. Service to others through employment has value beyond the financial compensation. Endless days off are lonely, boring, and seems like a waste of life. It is my opinion and experience.

This is patently false.

It sucks that you haven't been happy with how your life has turned out, and I'm very sorry to hear that you haven't found ways to find satisfaction and sense of fulfillment since you last posted here.

Thanks!   I have witnessed others who are experiencing a similar result of achieving FIRE at a young age, depression, loneliness, loss of purpose. In my experience, it seems that the achievement of some sort of professional accolades prior to FIRE is a benefit.

[charis]

What are professional accolades? An award, a promotion, a large bonus? Or something else?

[Metalcat]

Anyone who holds a contrarian view is considered to be a troll. I came here expecting to find my people, but instead, it seems to have encountered those who are largely trying to achieve FIRE and perhaps can not relate to my issues.

I came into FIRE accidentally after being laid off long ago. It was not my goal other than to replace my income. I always expected to be able to return to my career. Since this thread, I have watched others who have achieved FIRE struggle with the same issues. FIRE has a downside. People can lose their sense of purpose. Endless days off become void of their meaning. Volunteering and self-improvement classes seem repetitive. Employment offers more than just compensation. It brings community, belonging, self-esteem, and purpose to one's life.

Our lives are supposed to have meaning other than merely existing to indulge ourselves. Service to others through employment has value beyond the financial compensation. Endless days off are lonely, boring, and seems like a waste of life. It is my opinion and experience.

This is patently false.

It sucks that you haven't been happy with how your life has turned out, and I'm very sorry to hear that you haven't found ways to find satisfaction and sense of fulfillment since you last posted here.

Thanks!   I have witnessed others who are experiencing a similar result of achieving FIRE at a young age, depression, loneliness, loss of purpose. In my experience, it seems that the achievement of some sort of professional accolades prior to FIRE is a benefit.

Well yes, people who aren't fulfilled in their working lives are unlikely to feel fulfilled in retirement, no matter what age they retire. But it's not a function of retiring, it's a function of never figuring out how to live a fulfilling life.

Which is a common issue.

[Skyhigh]

What are professional accolades? An award, a promotion, a large bonus? Or something else?

Achieving some sort of personal and public level of accomplishment before FIRE. Becoming satisfied with your work-life abilities prior to dropping out. Some careers have benchmarks that people consider to be evidence of professional success. I feel it is important prior to FIRE.

[Skyhigh]

Anyone who holds a contrarian view is considered to be a troll. I came here expecting to find my people, but instead, it seems to have encountered those who are largely trying to achieve FIRE and perhaps can not relate to my issues.

I came into FIRE accidentally after being laid off long ago. It was not my goal other than to replace my income. I always expected to be able to return to my career. Since this thread, I have watched others who have achieved FIRE struggle with the same issues. FIRE has a downside. People can lose their sense of purpose. Endless days off become void of their meaning. Volunteering and self-improvement classes seem repetitive. Employment offers more than just compensation. It brings community, belonging, self-esteem, and purpose to one's life.

Our lives are supposed to have meaning other than merely existing to indulge ourselves. Service to others through employment has value beyond the financial compensation. Endless days off are lonely, boring, and seems like a waste of life. It is my opinion and experience.

This is patently false.

It sucks that you haven't been happy with how your life has turned out, and I'm very sorry to hear that you haven't found ways to find satisfaction and sense of fulfillment since you last posted here.

Thanks!   I have witnessed others who are experiencing a similar result of achieving FIRE at a young age, depression, loneliness, loss of purpose. In my experience, it seems that the achievement of some sort of professional accolades prior to FIRE is a benefit.

Well yes, people who aren't fulfilled in their working lives are unlikely to feel fulfilled in retirement, no matter what age they retire. But it's not a function of retiring, it's a function of never figuring out how to live a fulfilling life.

Which is a common issue.

Most people need to be involved with the stream of life and don't realize what will be lost by abandoning their purpose. 

[Metalcat]

Anyone who holds a contrarian view is considered to be a troll. I came here expecting to find my people, but instead, it seems to have encountered those who are largely trying to achieve FIRE and perhaps can not relate to my issues.

I came into FIRE accidentally after being laid off long ago. It was not my goal other than to replace my income. I always expected to be able to return to my career. Since this thread, I have watched others who have achieved FIRE struggle with the same issues. FIRE has a downside. People can lose their sense of purpose. Endless days off become void of their meaning. Volunteering and self-improvement classes seem repetitive. Employment offers more than just compensation. It brings community, belonging, self-esteem, and purpose to one's life.

Our lives are supposed to have meaning other than merely existing to indulge ourselves. Service to others through employment has value beyond the financial compensation. Endless days off are lonely, boring, and seems like a waste of life. It is my opinion and experience.

This is patently false.

It sucks that you haven't been happy with how your life has turned out, and I'm very sorry to hear that you haven't found ways to find satisfaction and sense of fulfillment since you last posted here.

Thanks!   I have witnessed others who are experiencing a similar result of achieving FIRE at a young age, depression, loneliness, loss of purpose. In my experience, it seems that the achievement of some sort of professional accolades prior to FIRE is a benefit.

Well yes, people who aren't fulfilled in their working lives are unlikely to feel fulfilled in retirement, no matter what age they retire. But it's not a function of retiring, it's a function of never figuring out how to live a fulfilling life.

Which is a common issue.

Most people need to be involved with the stream of life and don't realize what will be lost by abandoning their purpose.

Likewise many of us transition seamlessly into new purpose in retirement. I personally naturally seek out challenges and projects, no matter what external forces there are in my life

But that's kind of my point. People who find a lot of meaning and seek out purpose in life tend to succeed at feeling satisfied and fulfilled, whether doing paid work or not.

Needing to work for money isn't what gives people a sense of purpose.

[Skyhigh]

Anyone who holds a contrarian view is considered to be a troll. I came here expecting to find my people, but instead, it seems to have encountered those who are largely trying to achieve FIRE and perhaps can not relate to my issues.

I came into FIRE accidentally after being laid off long ago. It was not my goal other than to replace my income. I always expected to be able to return to my career. Since this thread, I have watched others who have achieved FIRE struggle with the same issues. FIRE has a downside. People can lose their sense of purpose. Endless days off become void of their meaning. Volunteering and self-improvement classes seem repetitive. Employment offers more than just compensation. It brings community, belonging, self-esteem, and purpose to one's life.

Our lives are supposed to have meaning other than merely existing to indulge ourselves. Service to others through employment has value beyond the financial compensation. Endless days off are lonely, boring, and seems like a waste of life. It is my opinion and experience.

This is patently false.

It sucks that you haven't been happy with how your life has turned out, and I'm very sorry to hear that you haven't found ways to find satisfaction and sense of fulfillment since you last posted here.

Thanks!   I have witnessed others who are experiencing a similar result of achieving FIRE at a young age, depression, loneliness, loss of purpose. In my experience, it seems that the achievement of some sort of professional accolades prior to FIRE is a benefit.

Well yes, people who aren't fulfilled in their working lives are unlikely to feel fulfilled in retirement, no matter what age they retire. But it's not a function of retiring, it's a function of never figuring out how to live a fulfilling life.

Which is a common issue.

Most people need to be involved with the stream of life and don't realize what will be lost by abandoning their purpose.

Likewise many of us transition seamlessly into new purpose in retirement. I personally naturally seek out challenges and projects, no matter what external forces there are in my life

But that's kind of my point. People who find a lot of meaning and seek out purpose in life tend to succeed at feeling satisfied and fulfilled, whether doing paid work or not.

Needing to work for money isn't what gives people a sense of purpose.

Agreed.  Did you have a corporate job? I also feel that FIRE when young adds to a malcontent disposition. Were you older when you achieved FIRE?

[boarder42]

Anyone who holds a contrarian view is considered to be a troll. I came here expecting to find my people, but instead, it seems to have encountered those who are largely trying to achieve FIRE and perhaps can not relate to my issues.

I came into FIRE accidentally after being laid off long ago. It was not my goal other than to replace my income. I always expected to be able to return to my career. Since this thread, I have watched others who have achieved FIRE struggle with the same issues. FIRE has a downside. People can lose their sense of purpose. Endless days off become void of their meaning. Volunteering and self-improvement classes seem repetitive. Employment offers more than just compensation. It brings community, belonging, self-esteem, and purpose to one's life.

Our lives are supposed to have meaning other than merely existing to indulge ourselves. Service to others through employment has value beyond the financial compensation. Endless days off are lonely, boring, and seems like a waste of life. It is my opinion and experience.

This is patently false.

It sucks that you haven't been happy with how your life has turned out, and I'm very sorry to hear that you haven't found ways to find satisfaction and sense of fulfillment since you last posted here.

Thanks!   I have witnessed others who are experiencing a similar result of achieving FIRE at a young age, depression, loneliness, loss of purpose. In my experience, it seems that the achievement of some sort of professional accolades prior to FIRE is a benefit.

Well yes, people who aren't fulfilled in their working lives are unlikely to feel fulfilled in retirement, no matter what age they retire. But it's not a function of retiring, it's a function of never figuring out how to live a fulfilling life.

Which is a common issue.

Most people need to be involved with the stream of life and don't realize what will be lost by abandoning their purpose.

Likewise many of us transition seamlessly into new purpose in retirement. I personally naturally seek out challenges and projects, no matter what external forces there are in my life

But that's kind of my point. People who find a lot of meaning and seek out purpose in life tend to succeed at feeling satisfied and fulfilled, whether doing paid work or not.

Needing to work for money isn't what gives people a sense of purpose.

Agreed.  Did you have a corporate job? I also feel that FIRE when young adds to a malcontent disposition. Were you older when you achieved FIRE?

Most of those who are FIRE are living very fulfilling lives so much so they rarely come around these parts anymore.  I think you're looking past other issues in your life and blaming FIRE for it.  I read thru most of this post and you seem to be depressed due to a lack of purpose which you personally think is fulfilled by working for a corporation.  FIRE isnt your problem. 

[Telecaster]

What are professional accolades? An award, a promotion, a large bonus? Or something else?

Achieving some sort of personal and public level of accomplishment before FIRE. Becoming satisfied with your work-life abilities prior to dropping out. Some careers have benchmarks that people consider to be evidence of professional success. I feel it is important prior to FIRE.

Some people need external motivation and validation.  Some people don't require external motivation and validation.  You clearly do.   Therefore, you should get a corporate job.   The path to getting a corporate job is very simple, I outlined it earlier in this thread.   Have you done those things yet, or are you still tweaking your resume? 

[former player]

I believe Skyhigh, because I have a friend in a somewhat similar situation.  He inherited the family business at an early age and needed to work only a couple of hours a week to keep it going.  He's a clever person, got an IT degree in three years in his 30s when he got tired of doing nothing, and then went back to doing nothing because he could afford to.  He's now 60 and doesn't have much to show for his life.  In different circumstances he would probably have followed a professional track into employment, but instead had an easy route out given to him and took it.   As someone who always knew I'd have to make my own way in the world and did so with some success I think I've made a better use of my life than he has with his.

[Metalcat]

Agreed.  Did you have a corporate job? I also feel that FIRE when young adds to a malcontent disposition. Were you older when you achieved FIRE?

I've had many different jobs and retired at 38.

I also happen to have studied happiness and emotional well being extensively, in fact, I'm hosting a major talk this spring on the damage that professional burnout can do *permanently* to people's physical and cognitive functions. I've also advised many, many people on their careers over the years.

In short, I know an absolute fuck ton about life satisfaction, happiness, burnout, and career trajectories.

And no, I don't agree with you that retiring young adds to a malcontent disposition. My personal experience is that I'm actually happier and even more driven, and have accomplished huge things since I stopped working, because I have a VERY internal locus of control. You seem to have a rather external locus of control, which absolutely correlates with lower life satisfaction.

[charis]

First, I'm guessing most people who seek FIRE aren't content with professional accolades or didn't care about them to begin with, they are seeking freedom.  Otherwise they would continue to work even after FI.  Second, this thinking is very narrow, that you have no skilled work/hobbies or purpose without a full time job. Lots of highly successful people don't do traditional FT work.

If you think a corporate job would be fulfilling, go for it. But don't blame FIRE. I've never wanted nor will I ever want that type of job.

[herbgeek]

It brings community, belonging, self-esteem, and purpose to one's life.

There are many other ways besides a corporate job to achieve these.  But I will agree that a corporate job is a lazy, easy socially approved way to possibly get those items.  Or, you could figure out what makes you happy and do that.

[Villanelle]

Huh.  It seems to me that someone was unsatisfied with life and decided to FIRE, thinking it would solve the problem.  Then they were unsatisfied with FIRE and thought returning to work would solve the problem. 

It doesn't seem like working, or not, is the issue.  Seems like maybe it is time to dig deeper, regardless of whether you return to work or not.  I think the main thing that leads to a "malcontent disposition" is a lot deeper than working or not working.

[omachi]

Wow. This thread is amazing. Should check if it has been submitted to the OP is the only one who doesn't see it thread yet.

Skyhigh, your problem isn't FIRE. Your problem is that you lack the fortitude and conviction to achieve what it is you think you should achieve or think you deserve to achieve.

FIRE gives you the option to take the easy way out, and lacking virtue, you choose that. This is a mark against you, not against FIRE. Blaming FIRE for the problems caused by your own choices, because it gives you the option to make them, is a further mark against you.

Sadly, even if you were not FIRE, it seems unlikely you would put yourself through the rigors required to leave the mark you think you ought. I've known too many people like you who should have been able to do whatever they wanted, but they instead chose to take the easy road whenever possible. These people were not FIRE, but given the option between putting in the effort to reach their stated goals and blaming the world for not granting them their desires, they chose the latter. Eventually, one learns that these people enjoy complaining more than they enjoy accomplishment.

The good news is that it can be fixed. Stop complaining. Cultivate virtue. Take responsibility for your life. Even if there are faults and causes outside your control, choose to react in a way that gets you closer to your stated goals. Of course, you may not make it to your status signifiers that way either. Once you have internal motivation and direction, you might just find that there are things more fulfilling than corporate accolades.

[Skyhigh]

I get what a lot of you are saying and without an in-depth accounting of life choices from each and every one of you it is hard to reconcile this subject.

I was laid off at 38 and forced into an alternative career path of being self-employed. Thankfully it worked out, however it was not my dream. I was reduced from wearing a clean white shirt and tie every day in a professional setting into mowing lawns and painting houses. It ended up providing a life that was easier and more lucrative as a self-employed real estate investor however it does not negate the fact that I might spend the day installing flooring, cleaning up after college students, or driving a john deere mower instead of something I am interested in.

FIRE comes with a steep price for many of us. It is my entire point. Washed up at 38. Killing your days mowing lawns or riding a mountain bike until it is over. Often it is the gun in the back of having to earn a living that propels us to great professional and personal accomplishments. FIRE can be the golden handcuffs. Too good to leave but not offering the challenge one needs to feel productive, accomplished, and satisfied.

I am not the only one.

[Metalcat]

I get what a lot of you are saying and without an in-depth accounting of life choices from each and every one of you it is hard to reconcile this subject.

I was laid off at 38 and forced into an alternative career path of being self-employed. Thankfully it worked out, however it was not my dream. I was reduced from wearing a clean white shirt and tie every day in a professional setting into mowing lawns and painting houses. It ended up providing a life that was easier and more lucrative as a self-employed real estate investor however it does not negate the fact that I might spend the day installing flooring, cleaning up after college students, or driving a john deere mower instead of something I am interested in.

FIRE comes with a steep price for many of us. It is my entire point. Washed up at 38. Killing your days mowing lawns or riding a mountain bike until it is over. Often it is the gun in the back of having to earn a living that propels us to great professional and personal accomplishments. FIRE can be the golden handcuffs. Too good to leave but not offering the challenge one needs to feel productive, accomplished, and satisfied.

I am not the only one.

Yes, I participated in your thread beforehand, I'm familiar with your particular angst.

But I maintain, and so will everyone replying, that FIRE didn't cause any of your problems. You could have made different choices at any point, and you can still make different choices.

As I said, you seem to have an extremely external locus of control, which means you perceive your life circumstances as something that has happened to you, and yes, you aren't alone, this is a very common issue and at the heart of why so many people are so unhappy.

Having an internal locus of control is highly correlated with life satisfaction because those of us who have it feel like our lives are a product of our own decisions and actions, even when shit hits the fan, we feel like how we respond to that is totally within our control.

If you want to read about someone who got royally fucked in life and in their career, I invite you to read my journal.

I have a lot of pity for you, but not because of your life circumstances and DEFINITELY not for the fact that you have all of the freedom in the world to make your life something amazing. I pity you for the fact that you have so much and can't find a path tp purpose, despite having every single tool you need to do so.

I'm literally crippled and in constant pain and about to have both of my legs broken as part of a series of 6 surgeries with 2 full years of recovery until I'll be able to walk again, and that's if everything goes perfectly. Add that to the severe neck spinal damage that prevents me from being able to function even if my legs worked. I have so many limitations it's insane, and yet, I still feel completely optimistic about my ability to live a full and challenging life.

I also feel totally confident in my ability to generate a totally new professional career, despite the fact that I'll never be able to work full time, and despite the fact that I have no financial need to do so. I just like a challenge, so I just go out and challenge myself.

So if I, with my severe nerve damage, being stuck in bed debilitated more than 50% of the time, with my about to be broken femurs, and complete inability to work more than very part time can still manage to generate the energy and effort it takes to build a whole new professional career despite not even needing the income, then so can you if you really want to.

...and no, asking me more questions about my circumstances will not give you an ounce of opportunity to say "well it's easier for you" because I would bet large sums that it isn't.

[seattlecyclone]

I don't think FIRE means what you think it means. If you were FIREd, why were you spending your time doing self-employment that you didn't enjoy? Why did you allow one layoff to end your professional career? If you were FIRE you should have had the space to pursue whatever training, networking, or other activities that might have been necessary to get a new job that was fulfilling to you. Instead you spent a bunch of time painting other people's homes. That's not FIRE's fault. That's on you.

[DaTrill]

Hi, Long ago as a younger person I was able to achieve FIRE. My dream, however, has always been to be a corporate slave. I spent my life, to date, trying to achieve that goal without a result. Recently I went to my fifth interview with my career objective employer only to be rejected again.

I am well regarded, educated, and highly experienced in my field. It is beginning to seem like FIRE is preventing my progression.  Its almost like they can smell the lack of desperation in my resume. They don't see the usual wage slave career progression markers or something. I read a book recently that mentioned a culture that comes along with corporate America jobs. It went on to explain that if one does not wear the right shoes, go to certain colleges, or use specific terms they can be subtly outed as someone from the outside and passed over. They are good and well-meaning people but can not see outsiders as fitting in, one of them. I have not been able to find a book on the subject that can help. It seems that people who come from corporate wage slave families grow up with the knowledge of how to handle themselves. It's like a pedigree that can't be bought, faked, or bribed. They have connections that I do not have. Doors open for elites when needed and they seem to pass through the tiers without much resistance into a well paying and highly respected positions.

I grew up in a FIRE family. Achieving FIRE has been a natural thing for me. I watched my mother build a small real estate empire. Instead of playing football or working at a grocery store after school I would ride my bike to one of my mother's job sites and work. I took her experiences and built upon it to create something even better. I am thankful for all the opportunity it has provided however there are some incredible downsides as well. To me, FIRE feels like a wasted life. I can't do any more volunteering. I am not interested in any more classes or lower-tier experience building jobs.  I have children whom I wish to see gainfully employed as they continue to grow up. My father had a long and satisfying career. He came from an elite corporate wage slave family. He did not understand FIRE and pushed back against it until he was laid off at 47 and retired because he could.

I am most likely out of luck. Too old now. My industry has moved onto a younger generation. It is incredibly sad for me. I wanted to be an example to my children. I am not sold on FIRE for them. My FIRE peers do not seem to do well in life. FIRE at a young age leads to self-destructive behavior in my experience. FIRE at an older age accelerates the decrepitude process. People tend to stop challenging themselves. They stop growing. Bad habits creep in. There is a lot to be thankful for as a corporate wage slave; the ability to be challenged, to achieve, to be embedded in an extensive social group. I am not alone. I have several FIRE peers who desperately want to get out as well. However, they have not tried as hard as I have.

Many here will not be sympathetic to my plea however those same people have cracked the code into corporate America. I am able to earn far more working my business however to what end does it serve this existence to be well paid but stuck in the same job I was doing in High School? Isn't there supposed to be more to this life than existing in a self-indulgent FIRE lifestyle? How does one break into one of the better corporate America jobs?

Follow Ivanka Trump. 
https://news.yahoo.com/ivanka-trump-tells-workers-to-find-something-new-because-old-jobs-arent-coming-back-183756343.html

I've had 5-ish FIREs and always switch fields after time off (sometimes for several years spending time in far flung remote vacation spots), as going back to the same old thing will result in the same old result.  Every position has resulted in higher pay, lower workload and more options for lifestyle.  For every career pursued, 2-3 are explored and rejected for one reason or another.

At one of my corporate jobs, a manager once got extremely happy and excited when a member of our team pulled up in a $100k+ car he could not afford.  The manager shared that debt was the best thing that could motivate employees, although the worst thing to do for a person's AUM.  If you don't have debt, you are communicating that at 5:01 pm, you will be in your car and at the edge of the parking lot everyday.   

Don't know what your skillset is, but applying the skills in a completely different industry, nothing to do with the past (try something completely opposite that nobody from past field has ever done, forge a new path) is the best advice one could give.  It sounds like you are doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

As many others have shared, FIRE is not the cause of your problems, like blaming winning the lottery for subsequent problems.       

[omachi]

I get what a lot of you are saying and without an in-depth accounting of life choices from each and every one of you it is hard to reconcile this subject.

I was laid off at 38 and forced into an alternative career path of being self-employed. Thankfully it worked out, however it was not my dream. I was reduced from wearing a clean white shirt and tie every day in a professional setting into mowing lawns and painting houses. It ended up providing a life that was easier and more lucrative as a self-employed real estate investor however it does not negate the fact that I might spend the day installing flooring, cleaning up after college students, or driving a john deere mower instead of something I am interested in.

FIRE comes with a steep price for many of us. It is my entire point. Washed up at 38. Killing your days mowing lawns or riding a mountain bike until it is over. Often it is the gun in the back of having to earn a living that propels us to great professional and personal accomplishments. FIRE can be the golden handcuffs. Too good to leave but not offering the challenge one needs to feel productive, accomplished, and satisfied.

I am not the only one.

FIRE necessitates being FI, and being FI is having freedom. It is an adequate amount of money to not be made to do anything you do not want to. Being FI, you could've spent all the time in the world finding your next corporate gig, launching a company, doing anything of any challenge level. You took your freedom and chose to mow lawns and clean up after college students. If that didn't provide the challenge you needed, why did you not go find the challenge you needed? Being FI, there was no risk of missing a meal, not having a shirt on your back, or a roof over your head as long as you don't risk your capital.

The only argument you seem to have is that you can't handle freedom. That it was too easy to not rise to a new challenge. That it wasn't bad enough cleaning up after college students to push you into doing something of interest or that you'd feel proud of. That you weren't compelled to achieve your dreams, and it isn't that you could have done so at any point anyway and chose not to, but that the freedom to not be compelled is somehow bad.

How is what you're saying any different than Aristotle's argument for natural slavery? That some people aren't fit to be free?

I'll grant you the refreshingly novel twist of the one arguing for it also asserting they should be in chains. But aside from that?

[Villanelle]

As others have said, if you continued to mow lawns and clean up after college students then you either weren't FIRE or you had some unexplained external reason for doing so.

Either way, why did you continue doing it if you hated it?  If you didn't need the money, why did you do it instead of spending your time on something you enjoyed?  And if you did need the money, why did you continue to do something you hated instead of finding work you found more fulfilling? 

[ysette9]

I get what a lot of you are saying and without an in-depth accounting of life choices from each and every one of you it is hard to reconcile this subject.

I was laid off at 38 and forced into an alternative career path of being self-employed. Thankfully it worked out, however it was not my dream. I was reduced from wearing a clean white shirt and tie every day in a professional setting into mowing lawns and painting houses. It ended up providing a life that was easier and more lucrative as a self-employed real estate investor however it does not negate the fact that I might spend the day installing flooring, cleaning up after college students, or driving a john deere mower instead of something I am interested in.

FIRE comes with a steep price for many of us. It is my entire point. Washed up at 38. Killing your days mowing lawns or riding a mountain bike until it is over. Often it is the gun in the back of having to earn a living that propels us to great professional and personal accomplishments. FIRE can be the golden handcuffs. Too good to leave but not offering the challenge one needs to feel productive, accomplished, and satisfied.

I am not the only one.

Yes, I participated in your thread beforehand, I'm familiar with your particular angst.

But I maintain, and so will everyone replying, that FIRE didn't cause any of your problems. You could have made different choices at any point, and you can still make different choices.

As I said, you seem to have an extremely external locus of control, which means you perceive your life circumstances as something that has happened to you, and yes, you aren't alone, this is a very common issue and at the heart of why so many people are so unhappy.

Having an internal locus of control is highly correlated with life satisfaction because those of us who have it feel like our lives are a product of our own decisions and actions, even when shit hits the fan, we feel like how we respond to that is totally within our control.

If you want to read about someone who got royally fucked in life and in their career, I invite you to read my journal.

I have a lot of pity for you, but not because of your life circumstances and DEFINITELY not for the fact that you have all of the freedom in the world to make your life something amazing. I pity you for the fact that you have so much and can't find a path tp purpose, despite having every single tool you need to do so.

I'm literally crippled and in constant pain and about to have both of my legs broken as part of a series of 6 surgeries with 2 full years of recovery until I'll be able to walk again, and that's if everything goes perfectly. Add that to the severe neck spinal damage that prevents me from being able to function even if my legs worked. I have so many limitations it's insane, and yet, I still feel completely optimistic about my ability to live a full and challenging life.

I also feel totally confident in my ability to generate a totally new professional career, despite the fact that I'll never be able to work full time, and despite the fact that I have no financial need to do so. I just like a challenge, so I just go out and challenge myself.

So if I, with my severe nerve damage, being stuck in bed debilitated more than 50% of the time, with my about to be broken femurs, and complete inability to work more than very part time can still manage to generate the energy and effort it takes to build a whole new professional career despite not even needing the income, then so can you if you really want to.

...and no, asking me more questions about my circumstances will not give you an ounce of opportunity to say "well it's easier for you" because I would bet large sums that it isn't.

Oh, snap

[boarder42]

Why do you need the back story of every person here to figure out why you can't find happiness. You dismiss everything anyone here says. If malcats post doesn't resonate I'm not sure you can find what you're looking for here.

[Ishmael]

I get what a lot of you are saying and without an in-depth accounting of life choices from each and every one of you it is hard to reconcile this subject.

I was laid off at 38 and forced into an alternative career path of being self-employed. Thankfully it worked out, however it was not my dream. I was reduced from wearing a clean white shirt and tie every day in a professional setting into mowing lawns and painting houses. It ended up providing a life that was easier and more lucrative as a self-employed real estate investor however it does not negate the fact that I might spend the day installing flooring, cleaning up after college students, or driving a john deere mower instead of something I am interested in.

FIRE comes with a steep price for many of us. It is my entire point. Washed up at 38. Killing your days mowing lawns or riding a mountain bike until it is over. Often it is the gun in the back of having to earn a living that propels us to great professional and personal accomplishments. FIRE can be the golden handcuffs. Too good to leave but not offering the challenge one needs to feel productive, accomplished, and satisfied.

I am not the only one.

I find it hard to accept that people find deep meaning from corporate jobs - most of them are completely pointless, and the greater "purpose" most of them serve are simply to bilk others out of money. The average person needs very little to be happy, yet there's an incredible number of jobs dedicated around building things people don't really need for anything, and figuring out howe to convince them they do.

I think there are jobs in public service that are meaningful, but even those have most of the satisfaction squeezed out of them by bureaucracy or other factors.

Quite bluntly, I find the idea of someone defining their sense of self worth by involvement in the corporatocracy sad. Sure, you can derive a feeling of satisfaction rising to the challenges presented to you and figuring out solutions to them, but for the most part, they're artificially created problems resulting from negative human traits and again, are mostly pointless in the grand scheme of things. I can achieve the same level of satisfaction from brain teasers or puzzles or other artificial games.

I think it's terrible that there are people who lose all sense of well-being when they retire - IMO, it means they never had it their entire lives. If you don't have plans and goals for your own life, there are many others who will happily take over your life to advance their own plans, and that's what I feel has happened with those folks.

The idea that life needs to have some greater purpose is a weird one to me, that seems to cause a lot of angst in a lot of people. My guess would be that it's been implanted by those who like to control others, like religious groups or the rich, to motivate the masses to advance their own agendas. We evolved on this planet over the course of millions of years, and living is our purpose. We seem to have an instinctual desire to make life "better" for the next generation(s), and to minimize suffering (well, most of us, anyway :/).

What makes us happy and contented is having our basic needs met - being loved, food, shelter, being a part of something larger, etc. While the corporate world can help with the food and shelter, it's terrible at the rest. The being a part of something larger it offers is a frail, cold, heartless mirage that can be ripped away from you at any instant by one bad manager, or a casual decision by a CEO trying to earn his latest bonus to buy a new cottage. Making yourself attached to it is dangerous and short sighted, IMO. You have even experienced this yourself at age 38 without realizing the root of the issue! "I was laid off at 38"..."Washed up at 38."

If you want to face challenges and the sense of satisfaction that comes from overcoming them, you don't need (or WANT, I'd argue) a corporate master to pull your puppet strings for that - find a hobby you enjoy, or a way to help others (or animals, or the environment, whatever you really care about deep down), and get involved!

[former player]

A large part of the world does see success as being a high-earning professional job.  That's not the view of most on this site, but let's be fair about that: a lot of us here who are FIREd or aiming for FIRE have had those sorts of job. If you've had it and come through the other side voluntarily it's a lot easier to reject its worth than if you've never had it or it's been taken away from you against your choice.

And the only reason some of us didn't take the "easy" way out is that it wasn't available to us.

[boarder42]

to summarize what you've said

1. you were laid off from a corp job at 38 which you enjoyed or at least think you enjoyed
2. you went to work managing your rental properties mowing lawns and fixing them up - this isnt FIRE - sorry its just a different job - you didn't like this job
3. you now think you can find meaning by going back to the world you were laid off from - is there a sense of rejection here that you're trying to overcome? Most FIREes leave the workplace and don't have the workplace leave them


the solution to number 2 is to hire this out then you will have truly passive income like most FIREes who index.  Contrary to your opinion that we all own property i'd say thats a very small subset of this forum.  Most just index invest.

The solution to number 3 is probably counseling.  I can very much understand your position when you might view your white collar career as a failure since you were let go under someone else's terms but again none of you issues appear to actually be caused by FIRE they have been caused by life experiences like being laid off.  And then your choice to active manage your rentals. 

To add to this you appear to be living in a state of deprivation that you somehow blame on the concept of FIRE - FIRE is a concept that is to be shaped and molded by each person to find the level of consumerism/lifestyle they are personally comfortable with.  Most of the face punch concepts around here are things people still do b/c they stepped back cut things from there life and have added back things they found they were missing.  Something is missing in your life maybe its a job but its highly unlikely thats actually the case.  Looking outside to find happiness often leads in more misery.

[Skyhigh]

Why do you need the back story of every person here to figure out why you can't find happiness. You dismiss everything anyone here says. If malcats post doesn't resonate I'm not sure you can find what you're looking for here.

I guess the difference is that I did not want to be retired early. It was forced upon me by a poor job market.

[Skyhigh]

Why do you need the back story of every person here to figure out why you can't find happiness. You dismiss everything anyone here says. If malcats post doesn't resonate I'm not sure you can find what you're looking for here.

I guess the difference is that I did not want to be retired early. It was forced upon me by a poor job market.

I have reached a level long ago where I could hire it all out and I do have staff that helps me. By mowing lawns myself I could save $1200 each day. By painting a house myself or with a crew I can save perhaps $1800 per day. I am too frugal to leave that on the table.

The bottom line is that I spend my day doing manual labor when I cold have been a professional. I went to college to escape drudgery and sunburn but ended up there anyway. It seems that the achievement of some sort of professional standard prior to FIRE is a benefit to satisfying one’s sense of professional accomplishment. 

I never got that. I am financially much better off than had I spent my days in a suit but still do the same basic work functions I did straight out of high school. It is not very satisfying. I wish I had achieved some sort of professional success prior to FIRE.

[sui generis]

I get what a lot of you are saying and without an in-depth accounting of life choices from each and every one of you it is hard to reconcile this subject.

I was laid off at 38 and forced into an alternative career path of being self-employed. Thankfully it worked out, however it was not my dream. I was reduced from wearing a clean white shirt and tie every day in a professional setting into mowing lawns and painting houses. It ended up providing a life that was easier and more lucrative as a self-employed real estate investor however it does not negate the fact that I might spend the day installing flooring, cleaning up after college students, or driving a john deere mower instead of something I am interested in.

FIRE comes with a steep price for many of us. It is my entire point. Washed up at 38. Killing your days mowing lawns or riding a mountain bike until it is over. Often it is the gun in the back of having to earn a living that propels us to great professional and personal accomplishments. FIRE can be the golden handcuffs. Too good to leave but not offering the challenge one needs to feel productive, accomplished, and satisfied.

I am not the only one.

I find it hard to accept that people find deep meaning from corporate jobs - most of them are completely pointless, and the greater "purpose" most of them serve are simply to bilk others out of money. The average person needs very little to be happy, yet there's an incredible number of jobs dedicated around building things people don't really need for anything, and figuring out howe to convince them they do.

I think there are jobs in public service that are meaningful, but even those have most of the satisfaction squeezed out of them by bureaucracy or other factors.

Quite bluntly, I find the idea of someone defining their sense of self worth by involvement in the corporatocracy sad. Sure, you can derive a feeling of satisfaction rising to the challenges presented to you and figuring out solutions to them, but for the most part, they're artificially created problems resulting from negative human traits and again, are mostly pointless in the grand scheme of things. I can achieve the same level of satisfaction from brain teasers or puzzles or other artificial games.

I think it's terrible that there are people who lose all sense of well-being when they retire - IMO, it means they never had it their entire lives. If you don't have plans and goals for your own life, there are many others who will happily take over your life to advance their own plans, and that's what I feel has happened with those folks.

The idea that life needs to have some greater purpose is a weird one to me, that seems to cause a lot of angst in a lot of people. My guess would be that it's been implanted by those who like to control others, like religious groups or the rich, to motivate the masses to advance their own agendas. We evolved on this planet over the course of millions of years, and living is our purpose. We seem to have an instinctual desire to make life "better" for the next generation(s), and to minimize suffering (well, most of us, anyway :/).

What makes us happy and contented is having our basic needs met - being loved, food, shelter, being a part of something larger, etc. While the corporate world can help with the food and shelter, it's terrible at the rest. The being a part of something larger it offers is a frail, cold, heartless mirage that can be ripped away from you at any instant by one bad manager, or a casual decision by a CEO trying to earn his latest bonus to buy a new cottage. Making yourself attached to it is dangerous and short sighted, IMO. You have even experienced this yourself at age 38 without realizing the root of the issue! "I was laid off at 38"..."Washed up at 38."

If you want to face challenges and the sense of satisfaction that comes from overcoming them, you don't need (or WANT, I'd argue) a corporate master to pull your puppet strings for that - find a hobby you enjoy, or a way to help others (or animals, or the environment, whatever you really care about deep down), and get involved!

All of this times 1 million.

I was all in on the idea of getting meaning from my career and professional accomplishments all of my life until I finally gave in to the fact that as much as I was told that was supposed to be satisfying.... It just wasn't. My career took me through private, non-profit and public service and no matter how I tried to justify the work I did based on the big picture or doing good in the world, it could not overcome the soul sucking factors or the obstacles to actually doing good. It was deeply saddening for me to realize this. If I could have gotten meaning out of life through an accomplished professional career, I would have. I just couldn't fool myself into believing what felt patently false to me, in practice.

I will say, however, that I understand angst around lack of community, and that people often look for it where they spend the vast majority of their time, at work. But that's sort of a chicken/egg issue. We used to have institutions and community outside of work. Rotary club, Lions club and other secular institutions as well as of course church, which is much more lightly attended nowadays. And even from this atheist, I think it's a shame. I'd prefer not to get community from misogynistic institutions, but there's no denying they created a fulfilling community for people. But all of these institutions, as well as just informal neighborly activities, are less active and harder to sustain nowadays. There are a lot of other factors involved, but a lot is the undermining of spending time on anything in life that is not profit oriented other than your immediate family. And then it's a deadly spiral. Few opportunities to find community... In your actual community, so spend even more time at work because you can find at least some community there, which further undermines the usefulness and existence of what opportunities for non-work community still exist, and so on. 

Now, jobs have to be everything to us. Our livelihood, as always, but also our sense of self-worth, our source of fellowship and fun, our identity. It's too much to ask of a job and maybe it's what leads some of us to FIRE, given the lack of ability for anything to meet all those expectations, except for a privileged few.

[Metalcat]

Why do you need the back story of every person here to figure out why you can't find happiness. You dismiss everything anyone here says. If malcats post doesn't resonate I'm not sure you can find what you're looking for here.

I guess the difference is that I did not want to be retired early. It was forced upon me by a poor job market.

And retiring was forced upon me by my spine falling apart at the EXACT same age.

[Skyhigh]

Why do you need the back story of every person here to figure out why you can't find happiness. You dismiss everything anyone here says. If malcats post doesn't resonate I'm not sure you can find what you're looking for here.

I guess the difference is that I did not want to be retired early. It was forced upon me by a poor job market.

And retiring was forced upon me by my spine falling apart at the EXACT same age.

Malcat,

Oh no… I am so sorry. I hope you are able to get along alright. FIRE is a blessing when we are facing health challenges for sure. Over the years our kids have had various health challenges and both parents were able to help. FIRE is a salvation for many. I empathize with your situation.

[Metalcat]

Why do you need the back story of every person here to figure out why you can't find happiness. You dismiss everything anyone here says. If malcats post doesn't resonate I'm not sure you can find what you're looking for here.

I guess the difference is that I did not want to be retired early. It was forced upon me by a poor job market.

And retiring was forced upon me by my spine falling apart at the EXACT same age.

Malcat,

Oh no… I am so sorry. I hope you are able to get along alright. FIRE is a blessing when we are facing health challenges for sure. Over the years our kids have had various health challenges and both parents were able to help. FIRE is a salvation for many. I empathize with your situation.

Did you read my very long post with a lot of personal details that I wrote earlier? Because I didn't take the time to write and share all of that for my own entertainment.

[Skyhigh]

Why do you need the back story of every person here to figure out why you can't find happiness. You dismiss everything anyone here says. If malcats post doesn't resonate I'm not sure you can find what you're looking for here.

I guess the difference is that I did not want to be retired early. It was forced upon me by a poor job market.

And retiring was forced upon me by my spine falling apart at the EXACT same age.

Malcat,

Oh no… I am so sorry. I hope you are able to get along alright. FIRE is a blessing when we are facing health challenges for sure. Over the years our kids have had various health challenges and both parents were able to help. FIRE is a salvation for many. I empathize with your situation.

Did you read my very long post with a lot of personal details that I wrote earlier? Because I didn't take the time to write and share all of that for my own entertainment.

Malcat,

Thank you for sharing that. I did miss it earlier. I am sorry for your situation and hope that your surgeries work out as you intend. Everyone has a different place on the spectrum of opportunity. I am very sorry for your health challenges. My mother has experienced something similar. She too has an internal drive and the ability to overcome many of life's obstacles.

All I can say is that we all are on our own journey. I am able-bodied and have a strong resume but can not find meaningful work in my field due to a poor job market. I hope you can empathize with my plight. I am ready and willing but am being held back due to outside forces that I can not control.

Had you not encountered your health challenge do you think you would still be at work?

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

Why do you need the back story of every person here to figure out why you can't find happiness. You dismiss everything anyone here says. If malcats post doesn't resonate I'm not sure you can find what you're looking for here.

I guess the difference is that I did not want to be retired early. It was forced upon me by a poor job market.

This isn't retired. This is being fired (not caps). You keep talking about how manual labor is beneath you - yet you do it - and how you're FIRE. I think your definition of FIRE is different than many.

[boarder42]

Why do you need the back story of every person here to figure out why you can't find happiness. You dismiss everything anyone here says. If malcats post doesn't resonate I'm not sure you can find what you're looking for here.

I guess the difference is that I did not want to be retired early. It was forced upon me by a poor job market.

This isn't retired. This is being fired (not caps). You keep talking about how manual labor is beneath you - yet you do it - and how you're FIRE. I think your definition of FIRE is different than many.

correct  please read my summary post above OP you appear to have glossed over that like you glossed over Malcat's indepth definition

at this point it appears you want to have a pitty party and are looking for others to share in your pitty.

[Metalcat]

Why do you need the back story of every person here to figure out why you can't find happiness. You dismiss everything anyone here says. If malcats post doesn't resonate I'm not sure you can find what you're looking for here.

I guess the difference is that I did not want to be retired early. It was forced upon me by a poor job market.

And retiring was forced upon me by my spine falling apart at the EXACT same age.

Malcat,

Oh no… I am so sorry. I hope you are able to get along alright. FIRE is a blessing when we are facing health challenges for sure. Over the years our kids have had various health challenges and both parents were able to help. FIRE is a salvation for many. I empathize with your situation.

Did you read my very long post with a lot of personal details that I wrote earlier? Because I didn't take the time to write and share all of that for my own entertainment.

Malcat,

Thank you for sharing that. I did miss it earlier. I am sorry for your situation and hope that your surgeries work out as you intend. Everyone has a different place on the spectrum of opportunity. I am very sorry for your health challenges. My mother has experienced something similar. She too has an internal drive and the ability to overcome many of life's obstacles.

All I can say is that we all are on our own journey. I am able-bodied and have a strong resume but can not find meaningful work in my field due to a poor job market. I hope you can empathize with my plight. I am ready and willing but am being held back due to outside forces that I can not control.

Had you not encountered your health challenge do you think you would still be at work?

I feel intense sadness for you that you have such an external locus of control, and strongly recommend that you seek the appropriate help to internalize your locus of control and take back power over your quality of life.

If you are able bodied and not cognitively impaired, there is no limit to the opportunities available to you if you apply yourself. Perhaps not in a specific job that you lost, but in plenty of rewarding, challenging roles that could really use hard working, able bodied, intelligent people.

If I weren't disabled, yes, I would still be working, but that doesn't mean I'm not happy in my retirement. My profession got much more difficult through covid, and most of my colleagues are actually bitterly jealous that I got to just leave and not deal with it. I often have to remind them that I'm crippled, in constant pain, and that I studied for 11 years only to work for 7.

It was a brutal loss when it happened, and I sought the appropriate therapy to process the loss and mourn in a healthy way so that I didn't adopt the kind of toxic victim mentality that so easily holds people back.

I'm not a victim, I just tend to deal with a lot of very specific types of challenges.

However, I have tons of options. Why? Because I've worked my ass off to foster the kind of skills needed to still have options.

I've actually accomplished more since retiring than I did in my last two years working. If my life isn't what I want it to be, I change it. If I don't have great options, I generate new ones.

I have had a life that my therapist affectionately refers to as "God's target practice" because that many devastating and brutal things have happened, and none of it has held me back from living a rich, rewarding, challenging, and wildly happy life.

Seriously, seek the appropriate therapy to mourn whatever losses you feel you have experienced, work on internalizing your locus of control, and build a life that's wonderful because you only get one, and only YOU can make it fantastic.

Because whining about it isn't going to change anything.

So yes, I am very, very sad for you that you are burying yourself in a victim identity that is emotionally crippling you from seeing just how fucking amazing you have it, and just how beautiful your life could be if you put in just a little bit of effort to repair your damaged emotional processes that are holding you back.

The main difference between you and me, besides the fact that you can walk, is that I have had a lot of amazing therapy.

Perhaps it's time to try something new since what you have been doing is not producing a positive result?

[Skyhigh]

FI is great. RE not so.

I have two younger FIRE friends who are starting to experience the ego decay and dangers of boredom that come with FIRE. In response, they have both started to take on unnecessary risks to fill the void. One is exposing themself to unnecessary business risk while the other personal physical risk through dangerous endeavors. I am trying to get them to settle down and just get a job at Costco before disaster strikes, but the golden handcuffs of FIRE are holding them hostage still.

I have seen this trajectory before. Some flirt with relationship disaster while others subconsciously sabotage their FIRE so that their ego will permit them to return to work. In my opinion, smart humans were not intended to be unemployed for long. Some of us need outside motivation and direction to remain challenged.

If someone is capable enough to achieve FIRE at a young age then they are too intelligent to be satisfied by spending their days in self-indulgent pursuits for long. Buying oneself toys and trying to fill the time with hobbies does not work a lot of the time, especially for younger people.

Imagine going to a party where young adults are meeting each other for the first time. When asked what your occupation was your response is "I ski". It sounds great to someone who has not lived that life but I can assure you that those words are often hollow. I don't attend such things anymore for that very reason. I personally find it embarrassing to be in a room of firefighters, doctors, business professionals, and professors to say that "I mow lawns". My financial situation is probably far better than theirs but it is not interesting either.

It probably would be better to say something like "I am a retired CEO" over "I figured out how to do nothing all day". FIRE comes with a downside. Plan accordingly. 

[Metalcat]

FI is great. RE not so.

I have two younger FIRE friends who are starting to experience the ego decay and dangers of boredom that come with FIRE. In response, they have both started to take on unnecessary risks to fill the void. One is exposing themself to unnecessary business risk while the other personal physical risk through dangerous endeavors. I am trying to get them to settle down and just get a job at Costco before disaster strikes, but the golden handcuffs of FIRE are holding them hostage still.

I have seen this trajectory before. Some flirt with relationship disaster while others subconsciously sabotage their FIRE so that their ego will permit them to return to work. In my opinion, smart humans were not intended to be unemployed for long. Some of us need outside motivation and direction to remain challenged.

If someone is capable enough to achieve FIRE at a young age then they are too intelligent to be satisfied by spending their days in self-indulgent pursuits for long. Buying oneself toys and trying to fill the time with hobbies does not work a lot of the time, especially for younger people.

Imagine going to a party where young adults are meeting each other for the first time. When asked what your occupation was your response is "I ski". It sounds great to someone who has not lived that life but I can assure you that those words are often hollow. I don't attend such things anymore for that very reason. I personally find it embarrassing to be in a room of firefighters, doctors, business professionals, and professors to say that "I mow lawns". My financial situation is probably far better than theirs but it is not interesting either.

It probably would be better to say something like "I am a retired CEO" over "I figured out how to do nothing all day". FIRE comes with a downside. Plan accordingly.

Literally no one, and I mean NO ONE has ever insisted that retiring early has to consist of doing nothing of substance ever again.

I mean, you have read the MMM blog, right?

Some people do and love it, and that's great for them. They are happy and don't need to modify their lives. But for those of us who find joy in ongoing challenge, then RE is an AMAZING opportunity to take on more of that on our own terms.

So yet again, I could not disagree with you more.

Being retired has opened up WAY MORE resources for me to take on even bigger, more exciting challenges. If I could go back to my career at this point, I'm not sure I would, not more than very, very part time, because I'm too interested in the new stuff I have going on.

[charis]

You are completely missing the point of these responses. It's not FIRE, it's you (and apparently your friends, which honestly sounds made up).  You were laid off, forced into a different career, and still work.  It sucks, but you seem to be on the wrong forum.   The golden handcuffs of FIRE, lol (you are definitely trolling with that statement).

My parents have been retired for 20 years. Is that too long for them to be unemployed?

[Skyhigh]

Today is the day on which I get to work my part-time job. I will carefully read every response later, but for now, I am away. Thank you all for this discussion as I find it deeply interesting.

[boarder42]

clearly you're not here for help or the discussions as you ignore it all - you're here for a pitty party like i said before.  I feel very badly for your "friends" who have to listen to you pull down their FIRE choices b/c of your own personal issues that have nothing to do with FIRE. 

You need to seek help from a qualified professional to work thru your mental anguish.

[jim555]

TPS reports make the day for some I guess.

[herbgeek]

forced into an alternative career path

NOPE!  No one had a gun to your head.  You made particular choices, and don't like the outcome, and instead of taking responsibility for that, and making a plan to get to a better place,  you'd rather blame some abstract concept like FIRE so you can be blame free.  Your choice, of course to do that, but I doubt its going to get you to a happy place.

[FIRE 20/20]

FIRE comes with a downside. Plan accordingly.

You keep saying this, and it continues to matter not a whit to those of us who are very happily FIREd and leading fulfilling lives without work.  Without a doubt, the best and most fulfilling years of my life so far have been my 2.5 FIREd years - even during COVID. 

[boarder42]

FIRE comes with a downside. Plan accordingly.

You keep saying this, and it continues to matter not a whit to those of us who are very happily FIREd and leading fulfilling lives without work.  Without a doubt, the best and most fulfilling years of my life so far have been my 2.5 FIREd years - even during COVID.

your signature quote is a snip from one of the best posts on these entire forums thanks for that!

[Skyhigh]

FIRE comes with a downside. Plan accordingly.

You keep saying this, and it continues to matter not a whit to those of us who are very happily FIREd and leading fulfilling lives without work.  Without a doubt, the best and most fulfilling years of my life so far have been my 2.5 FIREd years - even during COVID.

I am glad that you are enjoying FIRE. I have been in FIRE for nearly two decades now. It was not my choice.

[boarder42]

FIRE comes with a downside. Plan accordingly.

You keep saying this, and it continues to matter not a whit to those of us who are very happily FIREd and leading fulfilling lives without work.  Without a doubt, the best and most fulfilling years of my life so far have been my 2.5 FIREd years - even during COVID.

I am glad that you are enjoying FIRE. I have been in FIRE for nearly two decades now. It was not my choice.

yes it was your choice by saying it wasnt your choice you're not taking ownership of your decisions. 

being laid off and choosing not to return to work was your choice. 
Even being in the position to be laid off was your choice. 
choosing to spend your time doing maintenance on your rentals was your choice. 

You haven't even been FIRE for 2 decades you've been fired from a job you apparently still don't have closure with.  And based on your own statements here you've been working full time rehabing painting and mowing lawns. 

[FIRE 20/20]

your signature quote is a snip from one of the best posts on these entire forums thanks for that!

Thanks, when I read sol's post that particular phrasing really struck me for some reason.

[FIRE 20/20]

OP, I've read through all of your posts on this thread.  I've started to write 3 different responses but none of them seem to really address the issue.  You've had some of the most insightful and helpful posters on this forum provide thoughtful responses, but nothing seems to break through.  I have questions that others have asked but you haven't really answered, like - why do you say you're FIREd when it seems like you're still working?  Why do you say you want a job and then say you keep turning down job offers?  Is the issue really with being FIREd (or still working - it's not clear) or with your feelings of inadequacy due to not having an impressive job title and set of accomplishments?  But those have all been asked and not very satisfactorily answered, so I'm not asking those questions again. 

My question is - why are you still posting here?  You clearly do not believe the huge numbers of people here who have happily retired early - you've made that abundantly clear.  This entire thread seems to demonstrate with ironclad certainty that your issues are much deeper than can be addressed on an internet forum, even when you're getting the best help that forum has to offer.  Have you considered seeing a therapist?  The level of unhappiness I'm hearing in your posts really feel devastating, and I'm just reading it rather than living it.  If you haven't tried it yet therapy might really help you get to a better place emotionally. 

Good luck. 

[ixtap]

What really jumped out at me was the OP avoiding social situations where other people have job titles to share. This is the opposite of my experience. When you tell people you are a Professor of X, they come with a lot of assumptions and opinions that they spit at you. When you tell them you volunteer for X, Y, Z, they are more likely to engage with you.