Downsizing the house after FIRE

[Monkey Uncle]

I FIREd a little over six years ago, and DW has not worked outside the home for a lot longer than that.  We have been living in a house that's too big for us for quite a while now, and we've been half-heartedly thinking about downsizing for a while.  We've never really gotten serious about it because finding something we like in our real estate market is tough.  But now that we've gotten a bit older and started traveling more, we've gotten more and more disenchanted with keeping up the big house and property, and we're starting to think a little more seriously about downsizing.

The goal is to use the equity in the current house to pay off the mortgage (only about 30k remaining), buy the new smaller house, and pay closing costs, moving expenses, renovations/repairs, and any other costs associated with getting into the new house.  I think all of that is possible, but I'm getting hung up on the timing of the whole process.  Unless we want to get some kind of short term loan to enable buying the new house up front, we'd need to sell the current house first, and then find some place to live while we locate, buy, renovate, and move into the new place.  The short term rental market here sucks, so I'm not sure how likely it would be for that to work out.  We have a small travel trailer, which is fine for the month-long trips that we occasionally take, but I don't know if we'd want to live in it indefinitely while the process plays out.  I've heard of rent-back agreements where the seller continues to live in the house for a while after the sale closes, but I don't know how likely we would be to find a buyer who would agree to that, especially if we aren't sure how long it will take to get into the new house.  The short term loan thing seems unlikely given that the MAGI we report for ACA eligibility is about $28k.  Some of that is my wife's SS benefit, so our AGI is even lower.  Of course we have more than enough assets to back up any loan that we would get, but my experience has been that lenders tend to focus on income instead of assets.

An additional complication is the lack of houses that we like in our market.  It's a small town in a rural area.  We've watched the MLS for years and haven't seen a property that we liked enough to bother going to look at it.  Which means we might be looking at buying a lot and either building or putting a modular home on it.  Which adds even more potential wrinkles to the timing of everything.

Is there anyone out there who has pulled off downsizing after FIRE?  How did you handle it?

[lhamo]

I'm in the middle of it right now.  Isn't going quite as smoothly as I had hoped.  We sold the big house quickly last summer and moved into a rental with an 11 month lease (owner wanted to push the renewal date back to July 1, which is more peak moving time around here).  Idea was that would give me time to find the next house without too much pressure.  Well, I did that -- found a good house at a great price that needed some work to make it my longer term age in place home.  I closed on that one at the end of September.  But have faced delays with getting the remodel work going and now I am facing the current lease running out and I don't want to renew -- rental was shared with TheX who is moving to another state, and is too big/expensive for me to carry on my own even if they would let me go month to month, which they probably wouldn't.  But my new house will not be finished before the end of my lease.  I'm hoping to finalize the contract/schedule next week and then I'll figure out intermediate housing.  I'm going to have to throw more money at the problem, probably rent storage (I had some storage space at the new house but not a ton).  Trying not to get too freaked out and focus on the longer term, big picture.  The house will be great for me for the next 20-40 years.  The changes I'm making to it will make it possible for me to live there even if my mobility declines.  It is an excellent investment, too -- so if I do need to sell and move to a facility with care, I'll have a nice hunk of cash to fund that with in addition to my stash, which will continue to grow.

What makes it a bit more challenging is that I am 55.5, so I still need to cash flow another 4 years of FIRE before I can easily tap my retirement funds without financial consequences.  I DO have a lot of Roth contributions and conversions I could draw on if I absolutely had to, but reluctant to do that since it will cost me more later to get money back into the Roth bucket.

All small problems in the grand scheme of things. 

If I were you, I think I'd look for an acceptable rental and downsize.  Then mix the travel you want to do with the house search.  Maybe you will find another location you would prefer to move to.  Then you won't be stuck with unloading a new/smaller house in an atypical market

[Fru-Gal]

Have you looked into pre-fab tiny houses? I stayed at a hotel that was all tiny houses and you would be surprised at how spacious they are. There were many different designs, and large decks and high ceilings added to the sense of space. You might find some places like that to stay at in your travels and see if you like them.

My fave house hack that I keep hoping someone will do (probably not me since I’m in my forever home & garden) is to buy land or a lot and then put 1 or more tiny houses on it. At least in my area a tiny house is technically a trailer, not an improvement to the land, thus property tax stays low.

You could also rent a space for the tiny house.

Note, the term “tiny” is relative — some of these are quite a bit larger than a travel trailer or RV, but under 600 square feet.

[Monkey Uncle]

Ihamo, thank you for sharing your experience.  That sounds like exactly the sort of complicated scenario I was hoping to avoid. ;)  I hope it all works out for you.

I should have mentioned that relocation to another area probably isn't an option.  Our adult son lives nearby, and due to some ongoing challenges that he's dealing with, we don't want to leave the area.  Also, real estate is more expensive in any other place we would want to live, which makes the math a lot more difficult.

Fru-Gal, I don't think we'd want to do a tiny house.  Although we are fine in our travel trailer for a month or so when we take trips, I don't think we'd want to commit to living in a very small space for potentially the rest of our lives.

Another point I probably should have covered in the OP: If push came to shove, we could use money from the stash to buy a house outright.  But of course that would trigger a large tax bill, which would reduce the amount we could put toward buying/closing/renovating/etc.  And I would be sweating bullets until we sold the current house and replenished the stash that generates our daily living funds.

[2sk22]

Part of the problem with downsizing is that there are fewer small homes being built nowadays. If we have to downsize, it will have to be to some kind of an apartment - not many single level homes in our area (northern NJ)

[Monkey Uncle]

I did a little more poking around and learned that my broker might be able to offer bridge financing in the form of a pledged asset line of credit (PAL).  Basically borrowing against the value of my investment portfolio, which would allow me to get the bridge loan that a regular bank likely wouldn't make for someone like me who has substantial assets but not much income.  So I could leverage the value of the portfolio to buy a new house before selling the old one, without actually liquidating securities and triggering a big tax bill.  Which would mean no need for short term housing, and only one move instead of two.  However, the securities pledged to secure the loan would not be available to fund living expenses, which might mean we would need to make all that happen relatively quickly.

[Monkey Uncle]

Part of the problem with downsizing is that there are fewer small homes being built nowadays. If we have to downsize, it will have to be to some kind of an apartment - not many single level homes in our area (northern NJ)

In our area there aren't many new homes of any kind.  And we also have the problem of not many single level homes.  We could make do with two levels as long as the primary bedroom and bath are on the ground level.  Another problem limiting our choices here is that most homes have steps accessing the entry, usually too many and too steep to build a ramp over them.  Although we don't have any mobility problems now, it's a major consideration for a house that might be our last move.

[Morning Glory]

Part of the problem with downsizing is that there are fewer small homes being built nowadays. If we have to downsize, it will have to be to some kind of an apartment - not many single level homes in our area (northern NJ)

In our area there aren't many new homes of any kind.  And we also have the problem of not many single level homes.  We could make do with two levels as long as the primary bedroom and bath are on the ground level.  Another problem limiting our choices here is that most homes have steps accessing the entry, usually too many and too steep to build a ramp over them.  Although we don't have any mobility problems now, it's a major consideration for a house that might be our last move.

A social worker I used to work with called them "peter-pan houses".

Are there any split levels with the garage underneath? Those are fairly simple to convert to a duplex with the lower level being accessible, provided that there are no issues with water seepage.

[BlueHouse]

My fave house hack that I keep hoping someone will do (probably not me since I’m in my forever home & garden) is to buy land or a lot and then put 1 or more tiny houses on it. At least in my area a tiny house is technically a trailer, not an improvement to the land, thus property tax stays low.

That sounds awesome to me too. One of my biggest fears is building on land that will flood.  Has anyone ever built a home that instead of a foundation has basically an ice-breaker style of boat under it, so if floods come, you just rise with the water?  (aside from Noah, of course)

[Fru-Gal]

There are many techniques worldwide for building in areas that flood, but my favorite technique is not building in an area that will flood.

[bill1827]

My fave house hack that I keep hoping someone will do (probably not me since I’m in my forever home & garden) is to buy land or a lot and then put 1 or more tiny houses on it. At least in my area a tiny house is technically a trailer, not an improvement to the land, thus property tax stays low.

That sounds awesome to me too. One of my biggest fears is building on land that will flood.  Has anyone ever built a home that instead of a foundation has basically an ice-breaker style of boat under it, so if floods come, you just rise with the water?  (aside from Noah, of course)

https://www.granddesignsmagazine.com/grand-designs-houses/grand-designs-amphibious-house-buckinghamshire/

Only available to those with very deep pockets who wish to live in a very desirable and very expensive area.

[former player]

There are many techniques worldwide for building in areas that flood, but my favorite technique is not building in an area that will flood.

True, but there are increasing numbers of floating houses in the Netherlands where non-flooding land is limited.

[Fru-Gal]

Definitely prefer an already-floating house to one that is prepared to float in an emergency! Flooding is incredibly dangerous, and flash floods (such as what happens in desert canyon areas like Moab or Death Valley) are even more so.

Beyond that, there is a very cool ecological value to not building in areas prone to natural disaster: It leaves them pristine. At least in the US, this has not been seen as a win-win, however, so there are tons of settlements and developments in areas prone to fire, flood, landslide, earthquake, hurricane, sea level rise… Not to say that humans haven’t always been drawn to create ingenious solutions to such problems, but in our modern era where we have so many alternative options, it just seems wasteful and destructive to willfully build where natural disaster has a higher statistical likelihood of happening.

[BlueHouse]

Only available to those with very deep pockets who wish to live in a very desirable and very expensive area.

two out of three. 

[Gerard]

there is a very cool ecological value to not building in areas prone to natural disaster

This is sort of what happened in Toronto. A bunch of people died, and a bunch more lost their homes, in Hurricane Hazel (1954). People weren't allowed to rebuild in the flood plains, which became parks that are now pretty heavily forested (which further controls any future flooding). The forested ravines are now wildlife corridors and bike paths, and an important contributor to quality of life in the city.

[GilesMM]

Most people talk of downsizing but wat they really mean is living in a space that is better suited to their needs and probably requires less mental and physical effort to maintain.  So think about what you really need in terms of space, location, any outdoor space and then what maintenance requirements you are willing to manage.  Some people downsize into a high-rise because their maintenance budget and effort goes to near zero (but they have a condo fee). Outdoor space may be a balcony plus shared common areas that are spotlessly maintained.  Others just change from a high-maintenance property to one that is low maintenance or readily maintained by others.


We recently upsized in square footage but the house is overall far easier to manage.  One of the oddest impacts is that none of the flooring anywhere in the house shows dog fur.  That is a first for us.  We "inherited" the cleaner and yard guy who already take care of everything inside and out, even when we are away, so it is way better than the former house which could easily suck up 100% of my time and then some.


Everyone has their own financing approach. We had some cash undeployed and sold some stock and thus had two houses at once.  You can sell first, rent, then buy.  You can try to synch them with a contingent contract.  You can maybe get a line of credit somehow.

[Monkey Uncle]

Most people talk of downsizing but wat they really mean is living in a space that is better suited to their needs and probably requires less mental and physical effort to maintain.  So think about what you really need in terms of space, location, any outdoor space and then what maintenance requirements you are willing to manage.  Some people downsize into a high-rise because their maintenance budget and effort goes to near zero (but they have a condo fee). Outdoor space may be a balcony plus shared common areas that are spotlessly maintained.  Others just change from a high-maintenance property to one that is low maintenance or readily maintained by others.


We recently upsized in square footage but the house is overall far easier to manage.  One of the oddest impacts is that none of the flooring anywhere in the house shows dog fur.  That is a first for us.  We "inherited" the cleaner and yard guy who already take care of everything inside and out, even when we are away, so it is way better than the former house which could easily suck up 100% of my time and then some.


Everyone has their own financing approach. We had some cash undeployed and sold some stock and thus had two houses at once.  You can sell first, rent, then buy.  You can try to synch them with a contingent contract.  You can maybe get a line of credit somehow.

Yeah, that's what makes it so hard to find something we like.  We want something smaller in square footage and number of rooms, but that has adequate storage and a spacious, well-laid-out kitchen.  Single level (or at least master and all living spaces on a single level) for aging in place.  Enough outdoor space to buffer us from neighbors, but not a high maintenance yard.  We aren't really "neighborhood" people, and any kind of multi-unit situation is definitely out.  And the cost numbers have to work out.  We don't ask for much, LOL.

For financing, if we do it reasonably soon, I think we can get a pledged asset line of credit from our broker that is secured by the investments in our taxable account.  If we wait too long, we may spend down that account too far to both cover the loan and fund living expenses during the transition.  The PAL would allow a buy first, move once approach, which we would greatly prefer to a temporary living situation and moving twice.  The risk with that approach is that we have to be careful not to spend too much on the new house such that the proceeds from the sale of the old house won't cover it all.

[Verdure]

What about the tiny house idea as a temporary solution? Could you buy land with enough room to put a tiny house to live in while you build a traditional house? Then when your house is finished you could sell the tiny house to someone willing to haul it away, or potentially rent it out, or use it for your own purposes (studio, workshop, guesthouse, etc)

[Monkey Uncle]

What about the tiny house idea as a temporary solution? Could you buy land with enough room to put a tiny house to live in while you build a traditional house? Then when your house is finished you could sell the tiny house to someone willing to haul it away, or potentially rent it out, or use it for your own purposes (studio, workshop, guesthouse, etc)

I suppose that's possible, but it seems like a lot of extra and unnecessary hassle.  We'd still have to buy the land and the tiny house, put in utilities, do site work, etc. prior to selling the existing house.  Then move and put stuff into storage while the new house is being built.  Then move into the new house when it is finished.  Then sell the tiny house (may or may not recoup the entire amount paid for it).  If I were going to go the temporary housing route, I'd probably try to find a way to use our existing travel trailer.

The more I think about it, the more I'm liking the idea of PAL for a bridge loan.  We'd just need to be careful not to overspend on the new house, and we'd need to move fairly quickly so the loan isn't outstanding for too long (the interest rate is pretty ridiculous).  I've submitted an inquiry to my broker to find out more about it. 

[Emilyngh]

We just did this and it was one of the very best decisions I've ever made! TBF it was right before I retired, so I was able to get a HELOC on the house we were downsizing from to use to buy the new house before selling. I'm not sure if being retired would complicate this in that the bank may require employment for a HELOC?

We downsized from a 2000 sqft house on 2 acres outside of town to a 1400 sqft house that's walking distance to the heart of our cute downtown area.  We used the HELOC to buy the new house while we still lived in the old one. As we chose to buy a house that needed a total renovation, we still lived in the old house for almost a year after purchasing the new.  We paid for the contractor and everything for the renovation with the remainder of the HELOC after the house purchase (the renovation cost more than the house) and using our stack of 0% credit cards for everything we could. We then moved into the new house, sold the old house, and used to proceeds to pay off all of the HELOC and credit cards.

By buying an old house in major disrepair in the area we wanted to live and doing a full renovation down to the studs, I was able to design the layout and all of the details to be exactly what I wanted. We really lucked into finding a wonderful contractor (which is another essential component IMO).  I do think it's harder to make a small space work if this isn't the case (eg., we took down walls in the downstairs to make less useable spaces like the foyer more useable, put in a totally new kitchen with an efficient layout and features that expands into what was the dining room, added a half bath and laundry room to the main floor, and opened up one of the upstairs bedroom to make a large upstairs loft, which really helped make the space more useable for us).  We also had the roof replaced, new hvac, plumbing and sewer line replaced, floors restored and refinished, electrical entirely rewired, patio and sidewalks redone, privacy fence added, brand new kitchen and bathrooms with exactly the little details I wanted added, etc.  I decided I'd rather have a smaller place that had the exact details and layout I wanted, in walking distance to town, with no mortgage, and while it was kind of a stressful process, I am so so happy we did it!

[Monkey Uncle]

We just did this and it was one of the very best decisions I've ever made! TBF it was right before I retired, so I was able to get a HELOC on the house we were downsizing from to use to buy the new house before selling. I'm not sure if being retired would complicate this in that the bank may require employment for a HELOC?

We downsized from a 2000 sqft house on 2 acres outside of town to a 1400 sqft house that's walking distance to the heart of our cute downtown area.  We used the HELOC to buy the new house while we still lived in the old one. As we chose to buy a house that needed a total renovation, we still lived in the old house for almost a year after purchasing the new.  We paid for the contractor and everything for the renovation with the remainder of the HELOC after the house purchase (the renovation cost more than the house) and using our stack of 0% credit cards for everything we could. We then moved into the new house, sold the old house, and used to proceeds to pay off all of the HELOC and credit cards.

By buying an old house in major disrepair in the area we wanted to live and doing a full renovation down to the studs, I was able to design the layout and all of the details to be exactly what I wanted. We really lucked into finding a wonderful contractor (which is another essential component IMO).  I do think it's harder to make a small space work if this isn't the case (eg., we took down walls in the downstairs to make less useable spaces like the foyer more useable, put in a totally new kitchen with an efficient layout and features that expands into what was the dining room, added a half bath and laundry room to the main floor, and opened up one of the upstairs bedroom to make a large upstairs loft, which really helped make the space more useable for us).  We also had the roof replaced, new hvac, plumbing and sewer line replaced, floors restored and refinished, electrical entirely rewired, patio and sidewalks redone, privacy fence added, brand new kitchen and bathrooms with exactly the little details I wanted added, etc.  I decided I'd rather have a smaller place that had the exact details and layout I wanted, in walking distance to town, with no mortgage, and while it was kind of a stressful process, I am so so happy we did it!

Thanks for sharing your experience.  I should look into a HELOC more closely.  I briefly looked at HELOC info from my broker's banking arm, which said that a HELOC couldn't be used for bridge financing.  But obviously different banks have different rules.

Hopefully we won't need to get into that kind of gut-it-to-the-studs renovation work.  I'd worry about the possibility of overspending and then not being able to pay off the bridge loan.  Also not thrilled about the prospect of all that stress and hassle.  But if we buy an existing house, we'll almost certainly need to do some work on it.

On Monday we're going to look at a house that is being auctioned.  I don't think this is the one, but it's close enough that we thought we should go see it. 

[Dicey]

We currently live in a 4bd, 3.5 ba 2638sf custom built (on spec, not for us-we got it on a short sale) clown house that we paid cash for in 2013. We've been looking to downsize for years. We look at Open Houses nearly every week. We'd like a nice, single story 3+2, maybe 1700sf. The problem is, we're competing with first time home buyers. Lack of inventory has driven the prices so high that we'd be paying more for less, which is bananas.

[AccidentialMustache]

I decided I'd rather have a smaller place that had the exact details and layout I wanted, in walking distance to town, with no mortgage, and while it was kind of a stressful process, I am so so happy we did it!

You're past the point it matters, but for anyone else the searches you want are "not so big house" and "Susan Susanka".

[AccidentialMustache]

Thanks for sharing your experience.  I should look into a HELOC more closely.  I briefly looked at HELOC info from my broker's banking arm, which said that a HELOC couldn't be used for bridge financing.  But obviously different banks have different rules.

Worth mentioning; could you pay off your mortgage and buy another house with a mortgage on it? It'll be more complicated if you don't have regular W2 style income, but I'm told banks will still loan to FIRE types, although maybe not at as good of rates.

That was how we did our house move across town; we owned the old one outright thanks to RSUs + a stock price bump, so we just bought the new one with a mortgage and (mostly) the bank didn't bat an eye. They actually did but were just being silly and once we explained that the old starter house was going to become a rental, the bank chilled out. I'm sure the same would be of "we're going to buy and renovate then move and sell." They just want to know there's a plan.

That said, HELOC is a great path too. We also used a HELOC on our starter home before the move to pick up some land on the edge of town we plan to eventually build on at the point we're empty nesters. We got the property because the previous offer fell through on financing, because banks took one look at the property (+structures) and went "nope nope nope nope." For us, that's fine, we wanted it as a tear-down anyway.

[Telecaster]

We'd like a nice, single story 3+2, maybe 1700sf. The problem is, we're competing with first time home buyers. Lack of inventory has driven the prices so high that we'd be paying more for less, which is bananas.

Ironically, the price per square foot for bigger, higher end properties in many locations same or lower than the price per square foot for entry level properties for the reasons you mention.  There are more buyers on the lower end and the prices get bid up. 

Nice to have money, I guess is the moral of the story.

[Monkey Uncle]

Thanks for sharing your experience.  I should look into a HELOC more closely.  I briefly looked at HELOC info from my broker's banking arm, which said that a HELOC couldn't be used for bridge financing.  But obviously different banks have different rules.

Worth mentioning; could you pay off your mortgage and buy another house with a mortgage on it? It'll be more complicated if you don't have regular W2 style income, but I'm told banks will still loan to FIRE types, although maybe not at as good of rates.

That was how we did our house move across town; we owned the old one outright thanks to RSUs + a stock price bump, so we just bought the new one with a mortgage and (mostly) the bank didn't bat an eye. They actually did but were just being silly and once we explained that the old starter house was going to become a rental, the bank chilled out. I'm sure the same would be of "we're going to buy and renovate then move and sell." They just want to know there's a plan.

That said, HELOC is a great path too. We also used a HELOC on our starter home before the move to pick up some land on the edge of town we plan to eventually build on at the point we're empty nesters. We got the property because the previous offer fell through on financing, because banks took one look at the property (+structures) and went "nope nope nope nope." For us, that's fine, we wanted it as a tear-down anyway.

If we paid off the existing mortgage first, we'd have to cash out some investments and take a tax hit.  Not too terrible, since we only owe about 30 grand at this point.  But I don't know about getting a straight-up mortgage; we've been managing our 1040 income to max out the ACA PTC and cost sharing, so our MAGI is only around 28k, and our AGI is a lot less than that.  And more than 2/3 of our assets are in retirement accounts, which generally aren't considered for collateral.
 But I suppose I should check with a bank or two to be sure.

[Monkey Uncle]

We currently live in a 4bd, 3.5 ba 2638sf custom built (on spec, not for us-we got it on a short sale) clown house that we paid cash for in 2013. We've been looking to downsize for years. We look at Open Houses nearly every week. We'd like a nice, single story 3+2, maybe 1700sf. The problem is, we're competing with first time home buyers. Lack of inventory has driven the prices so high that we'd be paying more for less, which is bananas.

I hear you.  Add to that a thin market in a rural area and you have our situation.  At this point we're starting to think about buying a lot and putting a modular on it.  But those aren't cheap either when you add in site prep, foundation, utilities, a garage, a shed, and upgrades to the cheapo interior finishing.

Due to various life situations, as well as travel plans for the late summer, I think we've pretty much decided that we're going to spend some time this year purging "stuff" and maybe try to make a move next year.

[Turtle]

We currently live in a 4bd, 3.5 ba 2638sf custom built (on spec, not for us-we got it on a short sale) clown house that we paid cash for in 2013. We've been looking to downsize for years. We look at Open Houses nearly every week. We'd like a nice, single story 3+2, maybe 1700sf. The problem is, we're competing with first time home buyers. Lack of inventory has driven the prices so high that we'd be paying more for less, which is bananas.

I hear you.  Add to that a thin market in a rural area and you have our situation.  At this point we're starting to think about buying a lot and putting a modular on it.  But those aren't cheap either when you add in site prep, foundation, utilities, a garage, a shed, and upgrades to the cheapo interior finishing.

Due to various life situations, as well as travel plans for the late summer, I think we've pretty much decided that we're going to spend some time this year purging "stuff" and maybe try to make a move next year.

I'm in a similar situation.  Crazy amount of house for 1 person, plus if I move across state lines I'd cut out approximately 5% state tax on retirement income.  This month will be very busy., but the rest of year not so much.  Purging the existing house of all the extra accumulation should be my first step as well.  Smaller houses in the area I'm looking into are mostly newly built and the same situation Dicey mentioned - likely to be paying more money for less house which seems silly.

[Monkey Uncle]

We did some looking last week at modulars and doublewide manufactured homes, and I'm beginning to question whether this makes any sense financially.  I think modulars are out of the question.  It looks like a 3 bd/2 ba modular, plus land cost, utilities, the bare minimum of options that we would want, and sale costs on the existing house, would cost a good bit more than our available equity.  And we're in a 5 bd/3 ba house on 1.5 acres with only 30 grand left on the mortgage!  Even with a manufactured doublewide, we'd have to go low-end to make the numbers work. 

The one big uncertainty is that we don't know for sure how much equity we're working with.  We haven't tried to sell yet, and we don't have a recent appraisal.  So we're guessing based on the low end of Zillow's range.  Perhaps we could get lucky and get the mid range or even the upper end of Zillow's range, but I doubt it.  Although everything is functional and in good repair, and the house is in a desirable neighborhood, it hasn't been updated since it was built in the mid '80s, so I don't think it's going to bring a premium price.

[chasingthegoodlife]

Why don’t you get a few local real estate agents to come out and give you an appraisal? Then you will have a better idea of what you are working with.

[AccidentialMustache]

100% that. We've worked with a single agent for all seven of our house buys and our one sale. She's buyer side, her DH is seller's side. The went, "$xyz,000." Didn't even walk the place, just did it from what they knew of it from when we bought it (10+ years ago), questions to us about updates, and their knowledge of the state of the market. We ended up doing a private sale but our price was real close to the estimate.

YMMV of course. Also it helps to have that good relationship with your agent. If you aren't into rentals (we are -- I don't have five vacation homes in the same town!), you'll be going in blind and may want more than one opinion.

[Dicey]

I have a method I use when the estimates seem wonky. Use your fave RE site. Search the recent sales in your are for properties with similar features and see what they sold for. I do this with Redfin. I like their site, but their estimates are frequently low in my area. I begin with their estimate, then I check to see what recent buyers have gotten for that much money recently.

[Monkey Uncle]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.  We will definitely be working with a realtor as we get closer to making a move.  We know a few whom we would trust to give good pricing advice.  I guess I just need to quit obsessing about the numbers until we're more ready to do something.

The thing about the Zillow estimates is I don't think they are low.  Compared to listing prices on similar houses, if anything, Zillow is a little on the high side.  What's taking my breath away is how expensive the modulars and manufactured houses are.  Those are supposed to be the budget options for a new house.  We were quoted almost $160k for a 3/2, 15xx sf doublewide.  That included basic setup on the lot, block foundation, and a few minor interior upgrades.  For a somewhat smaller modular, we were quoted almost $200k.  Those prices assume a level lot with utilities in place.  Add in 30k for the lot, at least 10k for utilities, probably 10k for site work, 30k for a garage, probably 10-20k for a porch and patio, etc., and things get out of hand pretty quickly.

There I go obsessing about the numbers again...

[blueberrybushes]

My fave house hack that I keep hoping someone will do (probably not me since I’m in my forever home & garden) is to buy land or a lot and then put 1 or more tiny houses on it. At least in my area a tiny house is technically a trailer, not an improvement to the land, thus property tax stays low.

That sounds awesome to me too. One of my biggest fears is building on land that will flood.  Has anyone ever built a home that instead of a foundation has basically an ice-breaker style of boat under it, so if floods come, you just rise with the water?  (aside from Noah, of course)

Bluehouse, one example of what some people do in the upper Mississippi that floods almost every year is build a 2 story (no basement) with all the living on the second floor.  First floor is all garage & light storage with a multiple double garage doors "upstream" and matching ones "downstream."  When the flooding occurs, they open all the doors and let the river flow through.  This reduces the river's hydraulic pressure.  Not ideal by any means and quite a mess to clean up after.  But, they like the island.  :)