Computer usage/addiction in retirement?

[merryt]

How has your computer usage changed from pre-work, to working, to retired?

I am thinking about trying RE again (2 previous attempts) and trying to figure out why retirement didn't feel right.

[Metalcat]

Well, I retired from a very active non-computer job because I became seriously disabled, so yeah, my computer use increased.

But I'm not sure what you are looking for?

Are you looking for strategies to not engage in addictive computer behaviours? Ideas for how to build your best life in retirement?

Are you trying to see if this kind of behaviour is common, or to see if it's common and how other people overcame it??

[deborah]

I used computers all day, every day for work so I think my usage has come down a lot.

However, I use computers for design and a lot of other things, so I still use them a lot.

[merryt]

Well, I retired from a very active non-computer job because I became seriously disabled, so yeah, my computer use increased.

But I'm not sure what you are looking for?

Are you looking for strategies to not engage in addictive computer behaviours? Ideas for how to build your best life in retirement?

Are you trying to see if this kind of behaviour is common, or to see if it's common and how other people overcame it??

As usual, all great questions @Metalcat . I am always receiving good advice from you (and the community), so thank you 1000 times.

I think I am trying to figure out what kind of behavior/transitions is common for FIRE folks. In modern life each person needs to find their own balance with technology. I was hopeful that hearing other peoples experiences might be insightful. Maybe what I am ultimately looking for is "ideas for how to build your best life in retirement" (like you said). If that is the case I can search the forms for those conversations. I thought maybe there is some uniqueness to the relationship with screen-time in retirement, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

Throughout my career I would guess the median amount of screen time I had was about 12 hours. In retirement it dropped to ~8. DW's goal in FIRE was long term, slow travel. So since first retirement attempt we have been slow traveling. For me, there is an emotional pull that screens are the space for productivity (probably learned behavior from work). Productive in this context means helping others, communicating with friends, building skills, making money, having impact etc. The counter to this is being away from the screen is a space to socialize with DW, and exercise, and relax. IRL hobbies and friends are a little hard to come by since we move a bunch and don't have a ton of possessions, BUT I have been picking up more afk hobbies in hopes of a smoother next retirement attemp. That emotional pull toward productivity is the part that I think I am uneasy with. There are two inherent claims that seem weak "Being productive is better then not being productive", and "screens are the best place for me to be productive".

I used computers all day, every day for work so I think my usage has come down a lot.

However, I use computers for design and a lot of other things, so I still use them a lot.

@deborah Fellow designer?! 💃. How do you feel when you hop on the computer now? (productive? creative? trapped?)

[MaybeBabyMustache]

It's been less than a month for me, so take this with a grain of salt. I use my computer in the following ways:
-Productivity (I want to do one my pass on my resume & LinkedIn profile), which includes bill paying, budgeting/tracking, college planning (two teens), fitness tracking
-A course I'm taking (The Science of Well Being)
-Farsi lessons
-Journaling
-Catching up on emails
-Maybe 90 minutes of "fun" internet time, which ranges from reading/posting here, to blogging (I blog, and read other blogs)

Overall, my computer time is definitely down during FIRE. I've replaced it with yard work, house work, decluttering, cooking, exercise, etc. I am keeping an eye on it, because it would be tempting on a rainy day to just sit & veg out on the sofa with the laptop. If I'm in that type of mood, I try to switch to reading.

[FINate]

This isn't really a question about computer usage, but rather what you define as productive, and this is a deeper question about the meaning and purpose of life. This is probably why you've struggled in  retirement.

It's been said many times on this site, worth saying again: FIRE isn't about retiring to nothing, or what retirement police deem acceptably unproductive. It's about freeing yourself from dependency on paid employment. Some people choose to work side hustles or part time, or whatever they find meaningful. Others choose volunteer work. Still others fill their days with hobbies or doing nothing at all. It's choose your own adventure.

IMO, you need to flip the script on what it means to be 'productive' if you want to thrive in FIRE. Exercising is productive -- a way of caring for your most important asset, your health. Spending time with loved ones is *way* more important than making more money. Travel is a way to create unique and lasting memories. Hobbies are a productive way to have enjoyment, build skills, build community, etc. Gardening, doing the dishes, cooking, doing the laundry... all productive work.

In this way of thinking, computers are neither good or bad, productive or unproductive. What matters is how you're using computers and the purpose they serve in your life. For me personally, computing is a hobby I use to help others: setting up networks, debugging issues, refurbishing old machines to give them new life (and keep them out of landfills). I deleted most of my social media accounts because these were time sucks that weren't life giving. Similarly, I've taken steps to avoid Big Tech algorithms (using FreeTube instead of YouTube, Ground News instead of Google News, etc.). But there are a number of video channels and podcasts that I love taking in during the day. And I do "waste" time online because sometimes that's fun and relaxing. But mostly I try to prioritize people and relationships.

[Metalcat]

Oof, that's a lot of foundational beliefs to work through.

For me the key was to work on my core beliefs about "productivity" and "success."

What do those even mean? Who gets to define them? Where did my initial attitudes and beliefs about success come from??

If you've had a belief structure around success that has lead to a life that you feel the need to escape from...are you actually successful?? According to who??

For me success now means that I wake up feeling calm, rested, and at peace with the world. That I take excellent care of my body and mind. That my relationships with people I care about are thriving. That I generally feel like my life if full, satisfying, challenging, and exciting.

I don't do anything for the sake of someone else's definition of "productive" unless it serves to benefit my overall well being.

For example, I've pushed myself a bit too hard for the past few weeks to achieve a goal that will overall improve my quality of life, but it required a degree of effort that was temporarily suboptimal for my well being.

So today, the most productive thing I can do is give my brain and body a rest. There are a lot of "productive" things that I could convince myself are "more important" today that I could push myself to do, but if my goal is overall wellness, they are simply not a priority compared to letting my systems recover.

[lhamo]

I've had a couple of moderate-severe depressive episodes in the last 2-3 years (been FIREd since mid 2015) and those have correlated with big upswings in screen time (basically sitting or laying in bed most of the day scrolling Youtube and/or playing repetitive games).  Getting out of those slumps has correlated with:

1)  Being deliberate about getting at least 3k steps/day (do even better when I get the average up in the 5-10k range, but the 3k daily minimum seems to be the threshold for significantly better mental health)

2)  Eating a reasonably balanced diet, including decent amounts of fruit and veg

3)  Getting decent sleep -- 8-9 hours/night with at least one stretch of 3-5 hours seems to be my baseline for wellness

4)  Having some kind of productive activity that I engage in several times/week -- best ones are things like gardening that keep me active and outside.  I don't give a shit about what other people think is "productive" BTW -- went through a phase where doing jigsaw puzzles was my main form of productivity.

5)  Spending at least some time outside, even if the weather sucks (this is harder to get myself to do in the PNW wintery grey gloom)

6)  Having at least 1-3 social engagements/week, at least 1 in person

If I am doing all those things, then my screen time is naturally lower than when I am not.  And my mental and physical health are miles better as well.

BUT, it is still hard for me to assess causation versus correlation.  When I am depressed, picking up the phone seems like a good enough achievement and focusing energy/time on any of those 6 listed elements is a real struggle.  But which of the 6 I should start with to climb over the hump and get coasting down the other side to wellness is hard to say.  I think the physical movement is probably key.  I seem to find the other 5 so much easier once I get up off the bed and start moving around a bit.

YMMV.  Not everybody is going to have the same constellation of wellness factors. But it is probably not a bad idea when starting your next FIRE journey to at least be attentive to how you are feeling as you build new patterns, and try to keep to the ones that correlate with both mental and physical wellness.  Limiting screen time may be a quick and dirty route to that knowledge for many.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

I often recommend to people who in a 'what to do next' phase a core values exercise.  This works for career days, transitions, RE, and more.  They start us out in Kindergarten or before with "What do you want to do when you grow up?"   That is, we are indoctrinated into thinking the tasks we do, especially for money, define us as people.  Have you ever been asked in all your years what your most personal values are?  Have you ever asked yourself?  How in the hell are you going to build a life that is consistent with what matters most to you personally then?!?

Clearly, you are already sort of obliquely doing this.  Some part of you recognizes that maybe screen time isn't your highest way to experience yourself and the world around you.  But you see screen time as a tool that lets you improve on other things that matter.  Thus, you have a min/max optimization problem. I don't recommend trying to "mathematize" a solution.  I recommend defining what your values are, ranking them, and taking steps (whether RE or working) that lets you pursue those values as your primarily goal(s) and purpose in life.

I also recommend redoing that exercise every 5 years or so.  Part of the joy of FI is you get to define what matters to you.  I've found with that freedom, my values have evolved over time.  I'm now much more interested in giving back and am seeking non profit employment. 

TL;DR - Know yourself, how much screen time is optimal will flow from that.

[AlanStache]

Screen time is about the same I would say but was an engineer before and now am working on a software project.  Then the interwebs are good for organizing IRL activities or learning new things.  I have tried to do no screens after 9pm that that clearly did not work  tonight :-/
Or maybe less - cant say, last thrusday ended up biking errands all over the city for a few hours.  Guess am not really interested in tracking it - get that freedom now :-)
I did remove all social media from my phone and try to limit doom scrolling, youtube is getting more and more boring over the months since leaving work - but that is a long term trend from while I was working too. 

[Retire-Canada]

My computer/screen usage is about the same pre/post FIRE. I enjoy it up until a certain point on a given day. If I where to spend some of that time working vs. chatting with a friend it wouldn't matter in my overall usage.

[BlueHouse]

Computer usage is much lower.  My work was almost exclusively using a computer, and when I wasn't working (but was stuck at work), I spent a lot of time working on my financial spreadsheet and on this forum.  Now that I'm FIREd, I don't really want to spend so much time at the keyboard.   

[NorthernMonkey]

Oof, that's a lot of foundational beliefs to work through.

For me the key was to work on my core beliefs about "productivity" and "success."

What do those even mean? Who gets to define them? Where did my initial attitudes and beliefs about success come from??

If you've had a belief structure around success that has lead to a life that you feel the need to escape from...are you actually successful?? According to who??

For me success now means that I wake up feeling calm, rested, and at peace with the world. That I take excellent care of my body and mind. That my relationships with people I care about are thriving. That I generally feel like my life if full, satisfying, challenging, and exciting.

I don't do anything for the sake of someone else's definition of "productive" unless it serves to benefit my overall well being.

For example, I've pushed myself a bit too hard for the past few weeks to achieve a goal that will overall improve my quality of life, but it required a degree of effort that was temporarily suboptimal for my well being.

So today, the most productive thing I can do is give my brain and body a rest. There are a lot of "productive" things that I could convince myself are "more important" today that I could push myself to do, but if my goal is overall wellness, they are simply not a priority compared to letting my systems recover.

I really enjoy reading your posts. They're always insightful. Thank you

[Metalcat]

I really enjoy reading your posts. They're always insightful. Thank you

I have a very, very long journal filled with ramblings if you ever want to chat.

[Shamantha]

Most of my work time was on a laptop, so now I have retired that has gone. However my private time online has increased. I spend more time on puzzles and news, but mainly on looking up information. How do I bake the best sourdough bread? Whereas in the past I would quickly search and pick a recipe, I can now spend two hours researching the different methods before baking, with tastier bread as a result. I brush up my language skills, I look for 3D models to print, the best way to make cosplay armour, where to buy the cheapest or highest quality products for my DIY jobs around the house. So whereas most off the online time could be shortened, it is very beneficial to my offline time.

By the way: I have limited social media and Youtube to approximately 15 minutes a day, as these are rabbitholes I can easily get caught in.

[Ron Scott]

How has your computer usage changed from pre-work, to working, to retired?

In retirement and my computer usage is way way down. And that crick in my neck has magically disappeared too…