Author Topic: Calling all downshifters!  (Read 160472 times)

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #350 on: May 04, 2024, 11:01:11 AM »
*snip*
Personal Perspective

1. The novelty or honeymoon period is not yet over and I see no end in sight. Every Friday I think to myself, "Woohoo, a three day weekend" and every Monday morning I wake up and think to myself, "Woohoo it's Monday!"

2. The maths is interesting. A four day week is 80% of a full/normal working week. Therefore 20% has been eliminated. Therefore, it should feel like an 80% schedule. However it doesn't. It feels like a 50% schedule. When I added up my Monday's off, weekends and annual leave it comes to roughly half the days of the year. That will explain why it feels like a 50% schedule then!

I think what this is really driving at, is that when working full-time, weekends tend to be life-admin/recovery periods rather than times where we can necessarily thrive. So although a full-time schedule sees work days only accounting for 65% of days of the year, it actually feels like 80-90%.

Therefore dropping down to a four day schedule has given me the feeling I've dropped from 80-90% work to only 50% work. This drop is far more powerful than just losing a single day of work. I'd expect such a feeling if I had dropped to a two or three day working week. The fact that this was achieved by just losing a single day is remarkable, and I still have to pinch myself. That 5:2 working day to weekend split becomes 4:3 instantly. That is a big shift and it feels more substantial in reality, than the logic of looking at those numbers in print.
*snip*

I wish I would have noticed this when you posted it, but I'm not on the forum very much any more.  I just wanted to comment on the points I quoted above.  I'm 5 years into FIRE, and my partner and I still frequently say to each other, "It's <insert weekday here> and we're not at work!"  Some of the shine has worn off, but for us it's not totally gone after 5 years!  I know part-time is different but the feeling of, I don't know, almost getting away with something (?) is still there. 

On the second point, when I went to part time it felt more like increasing my time off by 50% than reducing my work days by 20%.  Subjectively the difference between 5 on and 2 off vs. 4 on 3 off is as you say more substantial than the numbers appear in print. 

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #351 on: May 04, 2024, 11:25:42 AM »
Hi FIRE 20/20 (waves). I’m so glad you still appreciate your FIRE status. I aim to never forget or appreciate the “I’m not at work today” feeling.

It’s wonderful how the 5:2 to 4:3 split make such a difference. I’m glad others have experienced this too.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #352 on: May 04, 2024, 11:47:58 AM »
Hi FIRE 20/20 (waves). I’m so glad you still appreciate your FIRE status. I aim to never forget or appreciate the “I’m not at work today” feeling.

It’s wonderful how the 5:2 to 4:3 split make such a difference. I’m glad others have experienced this too.

It took 4 years of having Fridays off, but I've finally hit the new baseline of "tomorrow is Monday already?  i need a longer weekend".

Though to be fair, we welcomed our first child into our home this past year...

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #353 on: May 04, 2024, 12:00:10 PM »
Four years is very good I would have thought. A little one sounds like a perfect reason to go for the four day weekend :-) Congratulations.

obstinate

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #354 on: May 05, 2024, 08:22:51 AM »
I'm currently on a 5/6.5 schedule and considering going to 5/5. With kids in school, hobby interests, and a fairly aggressive exercise regimen, I ended up mostly feeling like I needed a few more hours in each day, not that I needed a whole extra weekend day each week. I've been very much enjoying this approach, although it has only taken a year for me to go from "80%, great!" To "I could use another free hour per day."

Our current financial situation is that in our HCOL area we probably could FIRE on our current investments. We are not sure that we are actually gonna stay here. In an MCOL area we'd be at a 2% withdrawal rate. So I think we don't need to save further, although of course as long as I'm employed in any capacity the stash will keep growing.

And yet I feel some reluctance about going to 60%. Will that be so little that it becomes hard to contribute? Will it remove optionality I may later want? Things I'm puzzling over. 

Retire-Canada

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #355 on: May 05, 2024, 08:33:47 AM »
My experience was that as I reduced working hours my efficiency/productivity increased making the lower hours less of an impact. Obviously that can only go so far, but it makes a notable difference.

Since you'll still be working every day you'll be able to engage well with others and it only comes down to prioritizing your time so you have maximum impact on whatever you are working on.

You don't need the money so now is the time to take a risk with work in a way that will benefit the rest of your life.

Simpli-Fi

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #356 on: May 05, 2024, 09:30:41 PM »
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/twisted-downshift/


You don't need the money so now is the time to take a risk with work in a way that will benefit the rest of your life.

I recently took a big risk to learn new skills recently…this was an enlightening view on downshift

micahc

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #357 on: May 06, 2024, 04:40:36 PM »
- why you did it?
Reached lean FI 18 years ago and wanted to start a family.   Which required more free time.

- what your downshift looks like?
1998-2002 Network Analyst, Shift Work, 21x12hour revolving day or night shifts with 4 days off.  80+ hour workweeks, little job satisfaction.
2003-2005 Changed Departments, downshifted to 5x8hour days with being on call afterhours for 5-10hours per week.  50+ hour workweeks.  ~25% pay increase due to overtime, manageable work week.
2006-2012 Hit Lean Fi, Changed employers, downshifted to 4x8hour days (negotiated 5wk vacation), sales role, pay -20%, Found love of my life had 3 kids.  SO quit job.
2013-2019 Changed employers, upshifted to 5x8hour days (negotiated 4wk vacation).  Project teams back to 60+ hour workweeks, high job satisfaction. 30% pay increase.
2019-2024 Changed Departments, downshifted to Fly-in-Fly-out, 7x10hour on w/ 7 days off, (negotiated 5wk vacation).  $15K/Travel Allowance, +16% salary, high job satisfaction. Reduced COL by $16K/year.

- what do you like about it?
Cost of living decreased, Able to move from VHCOL to MCOL area, sold my car, no more office clothes, company feeds/houses me ~50% of the year, also travel allowance pays for return flights.

Essentially work for half the year and have 5 weeks vacation, so I have a lot of time off.  I've succeeded in increasing my happiness.

- what isn't so awesome about it?
Nothing. My wife FIRED 12 years ago, get to spend lots of time with kids and wife.   Realizing my fun will decrease when oldest son left for college.

- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Only want to do - what I am presently doing.  Probably continue to work for another 6 years until all kids are finished school.  Our FIRE number will be more FatFire.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2024, 04:45:25 PM by micahc »

obstinate

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #358 on: May 06, 2024, 09:02:03 PM »
My experience was that as I reduced working hours my efficiency/productivity increased making the lower hours less of an impact. Obviously that can only go so far, but it makes a notable difference.

Since you'll still be working every day you'll be able to engage well with others and it only comes down to prioritizing your time so you have maximum impact on whatever you are working on.

You don't need the money so now is the time to take a risk with work in a way that will benefit the rest of your life.
Thanks for sharing this motivation. I'm thinking about it hard.

StarBright

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #359 on: May 07, 2024, 08:14:13 AM »
I pulled the downshift trigger in February!

Why you did it?
I've hit text book burn out in the last year, health issues are compounding, and I donn't always have time for life/parenting/community/home owner responsibilities.

What your downshift looks like?
I work at a company that seems made to create burnout - We have an "always at your desk, always respond quickly" policy during the workday that led to most of my 40 hours being taken up by simply responding to coworkers or customers all of the time. It also meant that I was working a lot on evenings or weekends to get my actually responsibilities finished. As a salaried employee my work week has been 50-60 hours a week for years.

While we technically offer a flexible schedule the flexibility is tracked obsessively leading to a culture that doesn't embrace flexibility in practice.

My downshift was negotiating 1.5 days a week where I am not expected to respond to anyone and am officially not online - basically actual flex time. A lot of the time I am still at my desk working, but getting a lot more done because I'm not constantly interrupted. But I can also run to the doctor or take a walk without having to notify folks that I'm stepping away from my desk.

What do you like about it?
It has given me back time to do things like health appointments, run an occasional errand, exercise a couple of days a week. Coworkers are learning to not just hit me up with questions all day. I did not take a pay cut. I am probably working 8-10 fewer hours a week on a good week.

What isn't so awesome about it?
I was hoping to feel more relaxed/get some down time. But the more I think about it, I think that is just the season of life I'm in? We have two full time working parents, two children in different schools and one is neurodiverse and has a ton of appointments and we don't have family nearby. It all falls on us all of the time.

What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
As the larger income in our family I'm going to keep the full time salary coming as long as I can. But we are definitely at a place where I can more than CoastFIRE and my husband is not interested in early retirement, so I have that in my back pocket all the time now. If my health stuff doesn't start sorting itself out, I will look at actually cutting back to a three or four day work week.

I am also interested in shifting career paths to one that I enjoy - but that will depend more on my kiddos and their schedules and needs.


Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #360 on: May 09, 2024, 05:19:31 AM »
I retired from my last full-time position in Feb 2023 and a month later started the new downshift position.

Why you did it?
I fully intended to FIRE, but when I left the full time job a former associate reached out with a new opportunity.  I said I wasn't interested in full time work and a lot of other things I had been dealing with.  They asked me to describe the perfect job and they said they would offer me that and offered me the job.  When you describe your perfect job and its handed to you it seems like you have to give it a shot....


What your downshift looks like?

3 days a week x 6 hours/day from home, but can take weeks off for trips.  I try to be available when things are busy for the team I'm on but generally its up to me.   I report to a person I've known for a long time and no one reports to me, and do not have work email on my phone.



What do you like about it?

All those things above.  Not having reports to supervise, and not having work email on my phone has made it truly the timeframe I set.  My boss can and does call me when necessary but thats few and far between and I'd rather know about anything that in the need than walking into it later.

I'm actually making just enough to cover all of our expenses, which is quite amazing that I can let the stache grow still.


What isn't so awesome about it?

I've had to let go of control over how things get done sometimes....but I quickly got used to that....

What are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I'm 52 and think of things like maybe until I'm 55 which is a more normal retirement age and will get a couple of kids grown and off the dole....but the real plan for now is I'm just gonna keep working the job I asked for and as long as they'll have me and I continue to like it will probably continue.  I think the use of that side of my brain is needed and this is about the right amount of hours to not get in the way of other things. 

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #361 on: May 09, 2024, 09:28:54 AM »
3 days a week x 6 hours/day from home, but can take weeks off for trips.  I try to be available when things are busy for the team I'm on but generally its up to me.   I report to a person I've known for a long time and no one reports to me, and do not have work email on my phone.

That sounds so perfect.  When I downshifted to 4 days/32 hours, it was such a big positive change, I started to think maybe full retirement wasn't the next goal after all (and I do like what I do), and if I could get down to 3 days, I could maintain that for a loooong time.

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #362 on: May 09, 2024, 09:56:43 AM »
3 days a week x 6 hours/day from home, but can take weeks off for trips.  I try to be available when things are busy for the team I'm on but generally its up to me.   I report to a person I've known for a long time and no one reports to me, and do not have work email on my phone.

That sounds so perfect.  When I downshifted to 4 days/32 hours, it was such a big positive change, I started to think maybe full retirement wasn't the next goal after all (and I do like what I do), and if I could get down to 3 days, I could maintain that for a loooong time.

I've just unretired to about this kind of schedule and it's pretty nice

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #363 on: May 13, 2024, 05:06:09 AM »
3 days a week x 6 hours/day from home, but can take weeks off for trips.  I try to be available when things are busy for the team I'm on but generally its up to me.   I report to a person I've known for a long time and no one reports to me, and do not have work email on my phone.

That sounds so perfect.  When I downshifted to 4 days/32 hours, it was such a big positive change, I started to think maybe full retirement wasn't the next goal after all (and I do like what I do), and if I could get down to 3 days, I could maintain that for a loooong time.

Yeah. my first "downshift" was when i sold the business and became a 40 hr/wk employee as opposed to ALWAYS on....but I found as long as email was on my phone, and I had direct reports I was responsible for, it felt like I was still always on, so getting rid of those two things was really key to making part time actually part time. 

life_travel

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #364 on: May 16, 2024, 07:52:00 AM »


3 days a week x 6 hours/day from home, but can take weeks off for trips.

I downshifted a year ago to 4 days a week and I am still loving it but just started to wish I can do 3 days!!
My team hates it already that I do 4 so 3 is not really an option currently and I love my team so not ready to change yet.
But yeah, 3 days with shorter hours plus weeks off for trips would be my IDEAL life.

Roboturner

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #365 on: July 11, 2024, 07:17:19 AM »
- why you did it?
Recently had our first child, been working towards FIRE as a member of the MMM community for ~10 years

- what your downshift looks like?
Working a high pressure job, company sold, have enough to trial FIRE. When I started I was religiously modeling our assets with the goal of Age 35, made it!

- what do you like about it?
Almost 2 weeks in, I haven't thought about work once.

- what isn't so awesome about it?
I am however shocked by how little time I feel I have, it turns out lots of life needs to be caught up on after ignoring large portions of it while working. I'm eager to actually hit the decompression stage...

- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
House reno and spending time as a dad. Curious if I'll get the work itch, but honestly doubt it at this point.

engineerjourney

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #366 on: July 19, 2024, 10:40:52 AM »
posting to come back and post my own downshift info

Malossi792

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #367 on: July 19, 2024, 01:06:46 PM »
posting to come back and post my own downshift info
bump so you have a notification waiting in case you'd forget it otherwise

Anon-E-Mouze

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #368 on: July 21, 2024, 10:03:05 AM »
I'm getting ready to put in a request to my employer to shift to 4 days a week schedule. Although I really enjoy the subject matter of my relatively new job (I joined the firm 14 months ago) and find my work colleagues and the work culture excellent, I'm running out of steam. I'm going on 58, I've been working full time with long hours (I'm a lawyer) almost non-stop (only one one-year break) for 30 years, and I've been the sole income earner in the household for many of those years.

I've realized that in the past couple of years I've lost my motivation to pursue my passions (photography and animal rescue). I need some time and psychological space to rekindle those interests.

We are comfortably FI but would like to pad the retirement budget a little more. Also, I do really like what I do and I get paid a LOT to do it. I just want to do less of it. I have a performance review coming up, and I also expect to hear from my bosses what their plan is in terms of adding more staff to my practice area. I'm aiming to make the request to go 80% by the end of Q1.

Well, my dream of asking to downshift had to get put on hold almost as soon as I made this post. But the reasons for downshifting soon (if not "tomorrow") have become more pressing.

In the past few months, my sister and I have been supporting my dad as he goes through bladder cancer treatment - and when I made the post above, he had finished chemo and radiation and had come through the treatment better than expected. We don't know if he's clear of cancer yet (we'll find out in a month or so), but at least the treatment didn't kill him or completely wipe him out. 

A few days after I made the post above, my stepmother began to experience such excruciating pain in her chest and back that she had to go to the ER. She had been experiencing some pain in the past few months but her chest X-ray had been clear in December and the doctors had diagnosed her with a spinal fracture relating to osteoporosis.

It turns out that she the melanoma she had been treated for in 2020 had metastasized EVERYWHERE, very quickly, and she now has cancer in her liver, spine, lungs and brain. She was told she has weeks to a few months to live.

So now, her two adult children (who are juggling childcare plus difficult job situations and/or health problems) and my sister and I are supporting my stepmother and dad as they navigate this transition. My dad and stepmother are financially on very solid ground and we live in Canada, so thank goodness healthcare is relatively inexpensive and MAID (medical assistance in dying) is available. There is a lot of grieving going on, but there are financial cushions and compassionate systems in place to make this diffcult process easier.

But now I'm balancing my work with the need to fly cross-country every few weeks to provide various kinds of support. I'm glad for the opportunity to do so, and I'm also glad that my employer is very understanding and has given me the flexibility to work wherever and whenever I want - or to not work if I choose to do so. 

So, for now, I'm working full-time when I'm at home (but with lighter expectations regarding time-sensitive or stressful work) and part-time when I'm in B.C. I anticipate that I'll need to take some bereavement leave later this spring to help my dad. But for now, it's not practicable to shift to a formal 4-days a week schedule. And my high income is helping cover the unexpected costs associated with frequent travel etc.

At the same time, my motivation to achieve better work-life balance is strong than ever. My own mother died at a relatively young age (67), very soon after she retired from work. I am going to downshift and then retire when I'm still healthy enough to enjoy the time I have left.

So, now my plan is to reconsider the 4-day schedule either in Q3 or Q4 depending on how our family situation evolves in the next few months.

2022 was a hell of a year (with an emphasis on hell) for the reasons (and more) noted above, and now it's January 2023 and I'm very burned out notwithstanding that my employer (as an institution), my managers and my colleagues bent over backward to provide me with the flexibility, support and compassion I needed to get through 2022. And I still enjoy my work, most of the time, and I'm not ready to quit altogether despite the burnout.

So I put on my big-girl pants and went to the person in charge of legal professionals, and then to one of my 5 (!) bosses and asked for a reduction in hours. Not only did they give me exactly what I asked for, effective as soon as I wanted to implement the change, they told me they understood, that they supported me in making this decision for quality of life reasons and that they didn't want to lose me.  The immediate manager I spoke to (I report to a group of 5 practice leaders) actually said he was honoured and grateful that I felt comfortable speaking to him about this and welcomed the opportunity to work with me to communicate my request to the other practice leaders and then implement the plan for change. (He took care of the discussion with other practice leaders and reported back to me within 48 hours.)

I had told them that I wanted to reduce my hours to 90% effective immediately (i.e. 9 out of 10 days) and stay at that level for a couple of months (probably until the end of March) while I figure out with others how to shift some responsibilities and also complete a major project. And then I'll shift to 80% (4 out of 5 days) on April 1. I'll stay at full pay and vacation accrual until April 1.

I know that going down to 80% might not seem like a lot but I've been working in a profession (law and regulatory affairs) for 35+ years where 50+ hour (albeit well-compensated) work weeks are the norm.

As for the burnout, I'm also planning to take advantage of our very generous mental health reimbursement benefit (as well as our wellness benefit and full reimbursement for an executive medical) this year.

I hope the reduction to 80% will enable me to continue enjoying my work while enabling me to engage in some of the activities that make me "me' :)

The reduction to 80% helped, but it wasn't enough. As I got toward the end of 2023, I realized that I was done (as far as my day job profession goes). So in mid-February 2024, I told my practice group leaders I was going to retire in early July.

My last day of work was July 11! Unfortunately, the first week or so of retirement did not go as planned. I caught Covid (probably at a weekend photography workshop on July 12-14) and spent my first week of retirement in bed feeling miserable. However, I'm finally starting to feel better and am looking forward to doing nothing because I want to, not because I have to!

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #369 on: July 21, 2024, 01:18:11 PM »
@Anon-E-Mouze you have definitely more than deserved this retirement. It sounds like 2022 - now has been really tough. Sorry to hear you ended up with Covid immediately upon retirement; something very similar happened to me when I retired toward the end of 2022. I think it’s the body’s way to forcing us to take some much needed (& deserved) rest. Cheers to a relaxing and enjoyable second half of 2024!

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #370 on: July 23, 2024, 06:04:45 AM »
posting to come back and post my own downshift info

That’s a good idea…so I’ll copy it. 😊
Haven’t downshifted yet…but when I do. In the meantime notifications from this thread will be motivation.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2024, 06:06:42 AM by OttawaNeal »

engineerjourney

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #371 on: July 23, 2024, 11:37:33 AM »
- why you did it?
Struggled during COVID to have two full time working parents with kids.  On the path to burnout after the first 2 years of COVID then had the 3rd kid with an extremely difficult pregnancy and first year of no sleep.  Lots of stress over both of us trying to get in our 40 hours with 3 kids with different school schedules, appointments, illnesses, etc.  Something had to change.  We are not FI but made it to coast numbers.
 
- what your downshift looks like?
Megacorp part time policy sucked.  Took a lot of time but managed to get a deviation to the sucky policy and dropped to 29 hours a week.  No benefits besides 401k access/match which was fine for me since I was on my husband’s benefits anyway (though still annoys me since other companies provide real benefits for part timers).  They updated the policy to be less sucky and now I am under the normal policy with a max of 24 hours a week.  The people I work with and the social capital I have (plus lower stress of being kick ass at my job) kept me from trying another company, though that was on the table too.

- what do you like about it?
I was part time at 29 hours from Feb 2023 to Sept 2023 then 24 hours to present.  My 29 hr schedule was 5 hrs on Monday then 6 hour days the rest of the week (with one WFH day).  My default 24 schedule is no Mondays and 6 hour days the rest of the week.  It works extremely well with the chaos of kids and I’m able to get soooooo much shit done during the week now that keeps our weekends free for fun and relaxing.  Its flexible enough that I can switch around my schedule pretty easy with communication to my management.  I can take off as much time as I really want, it’s just unpaid!  Not really a minimum a week, just the max at 24 hrs.  It’s a great balance between work/brain usage/adult interaction and life stuff.  I even picked back up some hobbies that were pre-COVID/pre-kids. 

- what isn't so awesome about it?
I still do some really important shit at work so sometimes I get stressed fitting it in my 24 hr limit.  But that’s only a couple weeks a year and it’s kinda nice that it’s a hard 24 so no taking advantage of me.  I’m pretty much hourly and get paid based on the hours worked up to the 24 max. 

- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Going to do this for at least two more years while my youngest is still in daycare (I would lose my mind entertaining him 24/7 outside of our amazing daycare).  My part time hours more than pays for childcare/summer camps and gives us some flexibility at this stage.  I can't really imagine going back to full time ever! Still trying to nail down “retirement” expenses with 3 kids involved but hope to be able for both of us to stop (or just one continue part time) in our 40s!

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #372 on: July 23, 2024, 12:12:56 PM »
- what isn't so awesome about it?
I still do some really important shit at work so sometimes I get stressed fitting it in my 24 hr limit.  But that’s only a couple weeks a year and it’s kinda nice that it’s a hard 24 so no taking advantage of me.  I’m pretty much hourly and get paid based on the hours worked up to the 24 max. 


It's super lame that the important stuff never comes off the plate, only the the fluff that fills up the rest of the time to 40 hours.

engineerjourney

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #373 on: July 23, 2024, 12:21:19 PM »
- what isn't so awesome about it?
I still do some really important shit at work so sometimes I get stressed fitting it in my 24 hr limit.  But that’s only a couple weeks a year and it’s kinda nice that it’s a hard 24 so no taking advantage of me.  I’m pretty much hourly and get paid based on the hours worked up to the 24 max. 


It's super lame that the important stuff never comes off the plate, only the the fluff that fills up the rest of the time to 40 hours.

You did remind of the annoying time-sucking things that I was able to get rid of with my management's full support with the transition.  That was freaking awesome.  I did get to streamline my role into more of things I liked to do but unfortunately a lot of them are really important and I'm usually single point of failure (I have backups but they would take hours to do the same thing I can do in minutes). 

JJ-

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #374 on: July 23, 2024, 12:29:19 PM »
- what isn't so awesome about it?
I still do some really important shit at work so sometimes I get stressed fitting it in my 24 hr limit.  But that’s only a couple weeks a year and it’s kinda nice that it’s a hard 24 so no taking advantage of me.  I’m pretty much hourly and get paid based on the hours worked up to the 24 max. 


It's super lame that the important stuff never comes off the plate, only the the fluff that fills up the rest of the time to 40 hours.

You did remind of the annoying time-sucking things that I was able to get rid of with my management's full support with the transition.  That was freaking awesome.  I did get to streamline my role into more of things I liked to do but unfortunately a lot of them are really important and I'm usually single point of failure (I have backups but they would take hours to do the same thing I can do in minutes).

That is a win on the time suck.

Time to start taking just as much time as your colleagues on the super important stuff. If they're paid similarly, why give your company such a good deal on your time instead of addressing the inefficiency of a single person point of failure ?


clarkfan1979

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #375 on: September 14, 2024, 07:33:33 AM »
- what isn't so awesome about it?
I still do some really important shit at work so sometimes I get stressed fitting it in my 24 hr limit.  But that’s only a couple weeks a year and it’s kinda nice that it’s a hard 24 so no taking advantage of me.  I’m pretty much hourly and get paid based on the hours worked up to the 24 max. 


It's super lame that the important stuff never comes off the plate, only the the fluff that fills up the rest of the time to 40 hours.

You did remind of the annoying time-sucking things that I was able to get rid of with my management's full support with the transition.  That was freaking awesome.  I did get to streamline my role into more of things I liked to do but unfortunately a lot of them are really important and I'm usually single point of failure (I have backups but they would take hours to do the same thing I can do in minutes).

That is a win on the time suck.

Time to start taking just as much time as your colleagues on the super important stuff. If they're paid similarly, why give your company such a good deal on your time instead of addressing the inefficiency of a single person point of failure ?

We are not FIRE, but we downshifted in May 2015 when my wife switched from full-time work (2300 hours/year) to part-time work 1,000 hours/year. We lowered our spending and we got a bump in real estate rental income ($1800/month) before vacancy and repairs.

I am a full-time community college instructor/professor. My contract says 166 days and 1,328 hours/year. However, I'm experienced and I can do my job well in about 1,000 hours/year. I got "exceeds expectations" in the last 3 years out of 4 years. My wife has 2 part-time jobs. She is a substitute teacher about 3 days/week (750 hours/year) and is also a virtual assistant for a real estate agent (250 hours/year).

We both work 1,000 hours/year and we self-manage 3 rentals (4 doors). We average about 200 hours/year total on management and repairs. In 2024, the total number of hours was closer 300 hours/year instead of the normal 200 hours/year because I installed 400 sq. ft. of tile in a rental.

But why not pay someone to do that work? That's a job! Well, the rental is on the island of Kauai. We occupied the rental for 6 weeks over the summer and I spent 3 weeks installing the tile floor. 


SweatingInAR

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #376 on: October 04, 2024, 09:39:20 AM »
Thank you everyone for the inspiring thread! Yesterday(!) I submitted my official request to drop down to 4-days (32 hours) per week in 2025!

I'll have to come back with an update once it happens and I can really answer these questions, but here's a little bit in the meantime:


why you did are doing it?

After a decade of working, saving, investing, and a lucrative house sale + move to a lower COL area, I (36yo) can afford to retire. My SO (34yo underpaid college professor) wants to keep working for a while, and all of our friends (mostly also underpaid college professors) work full time. Socially, I think that it would be strange for me to cease working completely. Reducing hours will let me claw back more of my time each week for hobbies, exercise, and travel while still having a job to chat about.

For reference, my salary+bonus as an Electrical Engineer is $150k-200k per year, and college professors in NE Arkansas start at ~$50k per year. I haven't bothered tracking our expenses, but I know that I max out my mega backdoor Roth 401k, both IRAs, and SO's 401k-equivalent. Knowing that, and that we still have money left over for taxable investments, I expect that we could retire on our $2M in invested assets.

what your downshift will look like?

I already work from home, but now it will be Monday through Thursday for a total of 32 hours. There is a responsibility at work that I do not enjoy, and I am negotiating how to shed that responsibility. It looks likely so far, so I can keep what I enjoy and lose what I don't.

One interesting stipulation management is toying with is asking me to help them find and hire someone to take over that responsibility and do it full time.

what do you think you will like about it?

50% more weekend for only a <20% reduction in pay thanks to marginal tax rates!

what isn't so awesome about it are you concerned about going forward?

a: My company is pretty generous with holidays, and many seem to fall on Fridays. I haven't worked out with management and HR how that will work, but hopefully I still get some benefit.
b: My SO plans to keep working, so a lot of my new freedom will still be spent alone or finding new friends. At first, I think that this will be awesome to spend on my own hobbies, but long term I think I will incorporate some volunteering or classes to enrich my life and meet new people.

what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?

Try it out and go from there! I can always go back up to 40 hours later if I would rather trade my time for more money.

Long-term, I could see myself tapering down to 24 hours/3 days at this job. Even better would be an occupation that lets me work part-time during the academic year while my SO is working, and then have the summers off. I'm not sure how feasible this is; my current job would not be conducive to that, and I didn't enjoy teaching much when I was a TA in grad school.


the_hobbitish

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #377 on: November 02, 2024, 08:50:47 AM »
You may have already thought of this, but could you make Monday your off day?

SweatingInAR

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #378 on: November 02, 2024, 09:38:10 AM »
I got approved this week! 32 hour weeks start Jan 6, 2025. 20% reduction in salary and the proportional bonus, but no change to the cost of health insurance and no mention of a reduction in my unvested stock grant value! I haven't bothered with the precise math because it's a moving target anyway, but it'll be more like a 15% reduction in Pre-tax compensation. Still plenty to keep maxing out my mega backdoor Roth.

You may have already thought of this, but could you make Monday your off day?

I think that I could, and I think that my job is flexible enough that I'll be able to move it around. That said, I expect that Friday will make the most sense 90% of the time. My SO has a lighter schedule on Fridays so their weekend already starts around 2pm.

Is there a reason that you would value Mondays off more?

the_hobbitish

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #379 on: November 02, 2024, 11:17:35 AM »
No reason other than you mentioned holidays usually fall on Fridays. If you're able to move it on those occasions you won't loose the holiday.

SpareChange

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #380 on: November 03, 2024, 07:35:45 AM »
I got approved this week! 32 hour weeks start Jan 6, 2025. 20% reduction in salary and the proportional bonus, but no change to the cost of health insurance and no mention of a reduction in my unvested stock grant value! I haven't bothered with the precise math because it's a moving target anyway, but it'll be more like a 15% reduction in Pre-tax compensation. Still plenty to keep maxing out my mega backdoor Roth.

Congrats!!

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #381 on: November 03, 2024, 11:27:58 AM »
I got approved this week! 32 hour weeks start Jan 6, 2025. 20% reduction in salary and the proportional bonus, but no change to the cost of health insurance and no mention of a reduction in my unvested stock grant value! I haven't bothered with the precise math because it's a moving target anyway, but it'll be more like a 15% reduction in Pre-tax compensation. Still plenty to keep maxing out my mega backdoor Roth.

Congratulations, and please come back to let us know how it goes!  Even if you decide it's not working for you, that would be good information for others to have so they can avoid whatever pitfalls you found.  But I suspect you'll find it's an excellent tradeoff, especially if you already have enough to FIRE. 

falling leaves

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #382 on: November 07, 2024, 09:06:27 PM »
- why you did it?
I work blue collar construction and it's hard on my body. I find that there's the time I spend doing the work and the time I spend recovering from it, and that recovery time is getting longer.
Also I can afford to do it now. I have real estate and rents coming in that allow for working a lot less.
My house is a detached house in a HCOL area and the area will be rezoned May 2025 at which time it'll be worth 2.5 million? 3?   enough to last me in retirement if/when I sell it.
At age 62 I want to spend more time doing the things that matter besides working.


- what your downshift looks like?
I have 2 regular gigs with management companies that I can do in about 20 hours a month that pay out enough for me to get by on. I'm open to working another 30 hours a month if the job is not too physical.

- what do you like about it?
It's early stages for me. What I'm looking forward to is to have more positive experiences and hopefully boost time feeling content and happy. I look forward to not being as stressed and feeling as tired and achy after all that heavy lifting.

- what isn't so awesome about it?
I think the challenge for me will be saying NO! to good jobs that roll in the door. Being a self employed carpenter has actually been a great thing, I get a buzz off the good jobs rolling in and the big pile of money at the end of the busy season. But I can't do that and do the other things I want to do too. Also my body is feeling it, my back is tight, my finger is clicking at the joint from an overuse thing and I'm just tired from it. I have to practice saying No!  Sorry, but No.. no ... no ... still no

- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I'm waiting until May 2025 and see what the city has in store for our area. By the looks of things it's going to be good. Then I'll sell my house and do something else. Maybe spend time with family some of the year and winter somewhere sunny.

SweatingInAR

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #383 on: December 03, 2024, 09:35:11 AM »
- why you did it?
I work blue collar construction and it's hard on my body. I find that there's the time I spend doing the work and the time I spend recovering from it, and that recovery time is getting longer.
Also I can afford to do it now. I have real estate and rents coming in that allow for working a lot less.
My house is a detached house in a HCOL area and the area will be rezoned May 2025 at which time it'll be worth 2.5 million? 3?   enough to last me in retirement if/when I sell it.
At age 62 I want to spend more time doing the things that matter besides working.


- what your downshift looks like?
I have 2 regular gigs with management companies that I can do in about 20 hours a month that pay out enough for me to get by on. I'm open to working another 30 hours a month if the job is not too physical.

- what do you like about it?
It's early stages for me. What I'm looking forward to is to have more positive experiences and hopefully boost time feeling content and happy. I look forward to not being as stressed and feeling as tired and achy after all that heavy lifting.

- what isn't so awesome about it?
I think the challenge for me will be saying NO! to good jobs that roll in the door. Being a self employed carpenter has actually been a great thing, I get a buzz off the good jobs rolling in and the big pile of money at the end of the busy season. But I can't do that and do the other things I want to do too. Also my body is feeling it, my back is tight, my finger is clicking at the joint from an overuse thing and I'm just tired from it. I have to practice saying No!  Sorry, but No.. no ... no ... still no

- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I'm waiting until May 2025 and see what the city has in store for our area. By the looks of things it's going to be good. Then I'll sell my house and do something else. Maybe spend time with family some of the year and winter somewhere sunny.

Congratulations! You have plenty of great options for the future that won't continue to rapidly degrade your body.

falling leaves

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #384 on: December 04, 2024, 06:59:15 PM »
- why you did it?
I work blue collar construction and it's hard on my body. I find that there's the time I spend doing the work and the time I spend recovering from it, and that recovery time is getting longer.
Also I can afford to do it now. I have real estate and rents coming in that allow for working a lot less.
My house is a detached house in a HCOL area and the area will be rezoned May 2025 at which time it'll be worth 2.5 million? 3?   enough to last me in retirement if/when I sell it.
At age 62 I want to spend more time doing the things that matter besides working.


- what your downshift looks like?
I have 2 regular gigs with management companies that I can do in about 20 hours a month that pay out enough for me to get by on. I'm open to working another 30 hours a month if the job is not too physical.

- what do you like about it?
It's early stages for me. What I'm looking forward to is to have more positive experiences and hopefully boost time feeling content and happy. I look forward to not being as stressed and feeling as tired and achy after all that heavy lifting.

- what isn't so awesome about it?
I think the challenge for me will be saying NO! to good jobs that roll in the door. Being a self employed carpenter has actually been a great thing, I get a buzz off the good jobs rolling in and the big pile of money at the end of the busy season. But I can't do that and do the other things I want to do too. Also my body is feeling it, my back is tight, my finger is clicking at the joint from an overuse thing and I'm just tired from it. I have to practice saying No!  Sorry, but No.. no ... no ... still no

- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
I'm waiting until May 2025 and see what the city has in store for our area. By the looks of things it's going to be good. Then I'll sell my house and do something else. Maybe spend time with family some of the year and winter somewhere sunny.

Congratulations! You have plenty of great options for the future that won't continue to rapidly degrade your body.

Thanks! I've already noticed a big improvement in my aches and pains this last 5 weeks or so of not working too much. I did a couple of hours today and it felt pretty good to be doing it. All things in moderation I guess.

Jade

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #385 on: January 07, 2025, 09:33:43 AM »
-why you did it?
I work 21 hours a week (term time and less than half outside term time with additional breaks). I'll drop to 10 hours a week from September '25 as the core amount rather than 21. We don't have kids and have gradually being decreasing paid work. Hubby FIREd at 50 and I'm 49 and still enjoy work. I have fibromyalgia/long COVID so less hours helps me manage my energy especially as my work supporting people with their mental health, although very satisfying, can be draining at times. We have a paid off house and will have a pretty lean FIRE which suits us fine as we don't spend much, but a few more years working will balance things.

- what your downshift looks like?
I have decreased over the past fifteen years from FT to PT work, 5 days to 4.5 to 4, 3 and soon 2 days (5 hours per day).

- what do you like about it?
Im fortunate to have a flexible, well paid job I like and have gradually been decreasing hours to make it a smoother transition. The work can be heavy at times so less hours doing the work, helps keep a balance and keep the enjoyment.

- what isn't so awesome about it?
I can get quite anxious and a bit overwhelmed at times supporting people with their mental health (moving to 10 hours a week will help lessen the caseload which helps).  Also with admin/management stuff and feeling unsupported at times (despite having a good 'stash') I worry about "getting in trouble" with any small changes that feel negative. I know this is me (and menopause also kicking things up) but it can be quite wearing at times.

The job is very flexible, well paid and great pension and I genuinely love the core role of helping people. I am delighted I'm in a position to go down to 10 hours a week but I also have a "build up" of stress from doing the role for over 15 years. It makes no sense to change roles now but I need to work on resilience and switching off as I let my worries about work disproportionately affect the rest of my life. I have had good times and bad times over the fifteen years since I've been doing this role so I'm hoping I'll feel calmer when management changes settle a bit (and HRT for menopause kicks in).

- what are your plans going forward around downshifting and FIRE?
Do 5 years at 10 hours a week and then reassess.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2025, 11:28:50 AM by Jade »

McStache

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #386 on: February 03, 2025, 06:37:40 AM »
I'm thinking about downshifting by leaving my full time 9-5 job and changing over to small scale independent consulting (and maybe some part time work at an old job if I can swing it). Has anyone here gone this route? Any words of wisdom?

I've got a case study going, but it's a bit more financially focused: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/case-studies/case-study-contemplating-a-post-job-life/

dandarc

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #387 on: February 03, 2025, 07:19:31 AM »
I am a small-scale independent contractor from the jump (and only have 1 client, so closer to "regular job" than your business might be), but I really love a 24-32 hour week vs. trying to hit full-time, which in my case meant 45+ hours average on weeks I'm working to make room for some fully-off weeks.

Had made that arrangement back in 2021, but last year we moved to be closer to family and I tried to ratchet it up to 35 hours+ because who doesn't want more money right after they move? A few months of that and it was clear - smaller load was good for me, larger very much not. I'm fortunate that my customer wants whatever I can give (benefit of being very good at what I do) so these conversations go well for me.

Looking briefly at your case-study, looks like we were in roughly similar financial shape to make this move at the time I did, and I still make quite a bit from now being part-time. If your cash-needs really are just $60K / year, then you can probably find a way to do that with consulting gigs and not drawing at all from your 'stache - seems like you must have the skills to command something that pays that well for half-ish time (or possibly even less). Maybe wait until you land one of those part-time consulting things before deciding to cut off the firehose of cash your day job brings. Also folks are not lying about it being difficult to refinance when self-employed - most of the time bank wants 2 years of tax returns to document your income, and for you to hit the usual debt to income metrics which becomes more difficult with lower income.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone on this forum truly regret dialing it back. Do some thinking on it, take a hard look at your numbers to be 100% sure they're correct both now and a reasonable prediction of the future, actually find some consulting work, then decide if you're really ready to cut off the massive firehose of cash that is your current job.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2025, 07:22:21 AM by dandarc »

McStache

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Re: Calling all downshifters!
« Reply #388 on: February 03, 2025, 05:02:21 PM »
Thanks @dandarc !! It's reassuring to hear from someone who has done it. 24-32 hours with good flexibility and some room to ramp down/up as you want sounds pretty ideal

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!