The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Post-FIRE => Topic started by: jim555 on June 10, 2022, 11:15:12 AM
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The dreaded "I" word has reared its ugly head. So has anyone thrown in the towel and gone back to work? Anyone doing a PT job or FT (gasp)! Just curious. I'm monitoring things but no plans yet.
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I've been tempted at PT. Something like barista fire for a while maybe.
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Yep, several times now.
Most recent, recruiter reached out on linkedin for something I wasn't qualified for, I told them such, they said "talk to em anyway" I didn't even send in a resume.... two weeks later I was working full time (the ease of how I got the position told me something...).
I only did it to get some experience in something I have no experience in (software project manager, 6 figures).
After 70 ish days, I told the autocratic/overly-emotional/way in over their head DIR that I would not be back. To be fair, I warned them in the interviews that I did not have to work and would not stay long if it wasn't a good fit. They took a chance, I padded the savings accounts, sort of a win-win.
I work side gigs all the time anyway, carpentry etc.
My latest, building a vanity for a friend. She gets a much higher quality product at a very low price, I get to use my tools and make some side dough, a true win-win.
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Not personally.
I FIREd back in 2016 on something around a 2% WR. Based on market performance since then and some non-portfolio income, I'm under 1% WR now. My resume has a six year gap in it and I've become picky about what jobs I would do.
If inflation runs for another year at 9% (rounding up) and there is another portfolio decrease of 25% (SWAG), and a starting point of 1% WR (rounding up again), that would put me at (1% * 1.09) / (1 - 0.25) = ~1.45% a year from now. Not scary at all.
If you apply the same math to someone who has FIREd in the last year on 4%, you get about 5.81%, and this person still hasn't got their feet wet and probably still has a reasonable resume and networking contacts. If I were in those shoes, I'd definitely consider going back.
I have seen a number of comments of people who were about to FIRE deciding to do OMY or TMY for obvious reasons.
I'll add that this pullback has bothered me more than the COVID crash of 2020 did...probably because this one has ground on and on. It feels more like the 2000 pullback when my 401(k) contributions just about equaled my 401(k) losses for several months on end. Eventually that turned around, though, and rather well.
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Not yet, and I think it's pretty unlikely.
I FIREd 3 years ago, and found that I'm happy spending less than planned. While I never intended to spend much under 4%, a mix of good returns the first few years, the pandemic, and just being happy without spending more means my withdrawal rate is closer to 2%. Even if inflation keeps going up and the markets go down I still have some cuts I could make to my spending and life would still be much better than it was when I was working a great job.
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We FIREd in December 2021, basically at the peak of the market, at what we thought was 4%. We've found however that we're spending more than our estimates, and obviously the stash is down considerably, so it's a really ugly way to get started.
We have stable funds to last through 2023 (that tranche really bothers me with inflation though), and having just recently FIREd we are REALLY loving not working and don't want to go back. I think what's bothering us more is not being in the accumulation phase during this downturn.
We've been discussing a return to part time work this fall/winter. We've also been discussing making investments into more side-hustle type operations to try to earn some cash on our own, without a return to conventional work. Not sure what we'll do yet but odds are that we'll try to pad the stash somehow before the year is over. We always knew we'd have to be flexible, but we didn't want to have to be flexible just 6 months in D:
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DH retired Dec 2020...and have been stuck in Australia due to the great C virus...
Going back to work ?? Hurrumph! We have just booked TWO international trips for the next twelve months..
At our age (59, 56), we have just lost about 20% of our Good years .. AND WE ARE NOT DEFINITELY NOT GOING TO LOSE ANOTHER 20%..NO SIR!
No amount of money is worth that!
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I'm starting a very part time position as adjunct faculty in a distance learning program for the US Naval War College. The first 6 months I'm in training making virtually nothing, after that I move up and will be getting about $22K a year for 4 hours of work a week.
Allows me to pad my Roth account for a few more years and more importantly, keeps me connected with my profession.
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Nope not me.
After several years of retirement, I've realized a) how much of a pain in the ass I was as en employee, b) how stressful my job was.
@Exflyboy has been bouncing around on the retirement trampoline for years. There are other forum members who have done similar, but I can't remember who, specifically.
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Paging Frank @UnleashHell, tho he might be too busy working to respond :-p
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Ptf and to say I appreciate the interesting perspectives that this thread is bringing.
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I'll add that I've noticed over the years that sometimes in times like this some FIREd people do return to work. Usually they stop working again within about 6 months because either (a) the market has bounced back or (b) they are reminded of how awful work is. If I went back to work now it's a tossup which would hit me first, but probably the latter.
The ones who stay unretired tend to be either (a) people who weren't emotionally ready to retire even though financially they were, (b) people who miscalculated their numbers somehow and weren't actually ready financially, or (c) people with investments that were too concentrated/risky/whatever. Of these three, (a) is the only one that might apply to me, as sometimes I think I might have an "Act III" in me.
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I retired at 57 and 7 months later was asked to teach a online college class. I did it every semester including summers for 8 years and I loved it. I could do it on cruises and in Europe. The university finally got rid of all it’s adjuncts and hired full time people. During this time I also did a small amount of consulting. Now at 67 I am fully retired. Some of my friends have gotten part time jobs or started dog sitting businesses because of inflation. I cut back instead.
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DH retired Dec 2020...and have been stuck in Australia due to the great C virus...
Going back to work ?? Hurrumph! We have just booked TWO international trips for the next twelve months..
At our age (59, 56), we have just lost about 20% of our Good years .. AND WE ARE NOT DEFINITELY NOT GOING TO LOSE ANOTHER 20%..NO SIR!
No amount of money is worth that!
That's some punch-to-the-gut math you don't see too often. Thanks!
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We quit in Dec 2020 and Feb 2021, I've worked a couple projects of three weeks at a time last year and this year. Part of our plan was to work a couple months a year as it's quick easy cash and leave the stash alone. Glad we had that plan as it alleviates any anxiety whether justified or not. We still have plenty of time off and I have told all recruiters calling me for anything longer than a couple weeks that I'm not interested!
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We retired in 2019 after several years of OMYing.
I was just telling DH that I'm really happy we over-padded the stash, and he agreed. If we hadn't, we would probably be looking for PT employment right about now.
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Thinking about it, blowing the dust off the resume. FIREd in January 2022 with about a 3.2 swr. Things are getting more expensive and stash is worth less, so not loving what I’m seeing. Thought I had a nice cushion but see my withdrawal getting near 4.0 swr.
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Very interesting threat - I am not retired yet and already thinking about unretiring :)
Inflation is one of my major concerns but even more problematic are raising taxes that are really bothering me to start my FIRE journey. I have only 12 years to go until retirement, currently can (just about) live off income generated by my tenants, have some cash and stocks and almost no debt. Also live frugally as a monk.
In the Netherlands (where I am from) stop working after 50 is basically removing you from the labour pool forever. Re-entering the workforce is not that easy.
I guess FIRE is scary as hell because the future is.
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I gave my notice to FIRE at the end of 2021 but hung in there for a few months because they struggled to find a replacement. I eventually decided to stay on part time to help them out and mitigate the SORR of retiring in this market. So I am OMYing but I the switch to PT is quite a nice lifestyle. It fully funds our costs while giving the markets time to recover.
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We retired in 2019 after several years of OMYing.
I was just telling DH that I'm really happy we over-padded the stash, and he agreed. If we hadn't, we would probably be looking for PT employment right about now.
We retired in 2020 without a padded stash. I'm interested in what my WR is going to be next year.
I don't though think I will go back to work but I have thought about it.
I suppose I consider what job I'd go back too. I don't really want my old job back. I was not a hard worker in a highish pressure environment. It's not really what I enjoy. My job was reasonably well paid though.
If I went back it would be to increase my spending. My wife doesn't want to increase our spending though.
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I guess it's popped in my head but since all the 'losses' are still on paper and not realized I will just wait it out and hope that the 'I' word gets under control, that going into mid-term elections and year end the markets will improve in general
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I retired in 2015 and have seen my portfolio increase quite a bit since then. I am invested conservatively, so my losses recently have not been that bad. I am still playing with the house's money. I have not thought about going back to work. Frankly, I don't think I could. I like being retired so much. I think my desire and ability to work a regular job has been completely destroyed.
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Nope not me.
After several years of retirement, I've realized a) how much of a pain in the ass I was as en employee, b) how stressful my job was.
Very wise words!
I found the same to be true about myself. Once you've "tasted fire" and no mondays, going back to work is tougher, it really HAS to be a good fit or it will wear you down quicker than we realize. Going to work when you don't really have to, it makes the whole thing feel different.
Once we are in the mix of a J.O.B. we often acclimate to the stress level (for me, that means a few more drinks here and there, bitching to my spouse most nights about the work) and we don't realize how much of it we are carrying around, a few weeks off though and we can truly see it. I guess it's another example of "you can't see the problem from inside the problem".
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This thread will likely suffer from the usual confirmation bias - folks don't much incentive to tell everyone they failed vs. proudly proclaiming 'hell no I didn't unretire, I am still successful' - but I'll join in. I have a sneaking suspicion that the job market will be the next shoe that drops, if a recession is setting in.
I am keeping my options open to ER in the next year or two and the 'unretirement market' would be good to understand. I could see myself retiring from my current career and trying something different for a year or two, if only for the health insurance and to get the final kid in to college.
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I went very skinny FIRE in 2012, and really wasn't ready. Plan was to take 6 months to unwind and then pick up part time work. I had never heard of the FIRE movement so didn't know barista-fire was a thing. Stash was very good to me for few years and the part time work never became urgent enough to take on.
For about the past three years, I've been thinking about the (very) few thing I miss about working: good people, achievement, improving skills. So, I've been looking for the exact right fit for part time work. I think I want to do social work and could even go back to school for a Master's in Social Work if it turns out to be rewarding enough. I have applied at a few nonprofits and those all fell through due to COVID. I currently have an application in at the United Way for a position as a part time 211 operator. Pay is a measly 16.73/hr but 20 hours of that would go a long damn way and let me do some of the things I haven't been able to like put in a whole house generator, lawn sprinklers, radiant heat barrier, and other home improvements. Plus, I'd like to take Dad on a vacation to Rome to see the Vatican while he is still in good enough health to enjoy the trip.
Wish me luck.
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I'll add that I've noticed over the years that sometimes in times like this some FIREd people do return to work. Usually they stop working again within about 6 months because either (a) the market has bounced back or (b) they are reminded of how awful work is. <snip>
I originally FIRED in 2017... went back to work in 2018 then was about to quit again because... yeah, work sucks. So I was about to quit again in 2020 but then the pandemic happened so I just FIRED again a late 2021/early 2022 depending on how you want to count it.
Markets are tanking and inflation is high... but not bad enough to make me feel like I need to work. :)
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This thread will likely suffer from the usual confirmation bias - folks don't much incentive to tell everyone they failed vs. proudly proclaiming 'hell no I didn't unretire, I am still successful' - but I'll join in. I have a sneaking suspicion that the job market will be the next shoe that drops, if a recession is setting in.
I am keeping my options open to ER in the next year or two and the 'unretirement market' would be good to understand. I could see myself retiring from my current career and trying something different for a year or two, if only for the health insurance and to get the final kid in to college.
That's a pretty negative and uncharitable take overall. I would think most people here - whether they "had" to go back to work financially or just wanted too for other reasons (bored with early retirement, etc) - would be very willing to be open and upfront with their experiences. Same with the "successful" ERee who happily remained retired even in market downturns. Why would be here otherwise?
I don't know how we'd verify it either way, it's up to each individual as to what they want to share. It's just human nature to be motivated to share things that make them feel good vs. sharing a failure to a bunch of strangers on the internet... I was really impressed with Dr. Doom's blog post, but you don't see much of that...
Edit to add link to the post (https://livingafi.com/2021/03/17/the-2021-early-retirement-update/#more-15998) I mentioned...
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I totally agree with Spartana! It’s not a failure to return to work. I have mentioned many times that I tried a new part time career 7 months after retirement and I was 58. I did it for 8 years and it was perfect for me because it wasn’t full time and I could do it anywhere. I was also basically my own boss.
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Whether unretirement is a failure is a good discussion. I personally don't think it's necessarily a retirement failure to return to work, but just like the polarizing, nebulous word 'retirement' (https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-vs-the-internet-retirement-police/), there isn't a good way to capture what unretirement means in a succinct way. Maybe early retirement failure is a poor choice of words, but it was a result of trying to be expedient...
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I could easily get a job @ $15 an hour no problem, within walking distance, so Plan B is open. Plan C is start the pension and / or Social Security, but I really want to wait to at least 65 for that. Plan D is hop the pond (have right of abode), but the UK has bad inflation well. One advantage is the ability to do Roth conversions and not crush ACA subsidies while you are there, since you don't need health insurance living overseas.
When you are a super cheapskate inflation doesn't hit you as bad. My spending hasn't gone up that much, which is surprising. The rates going up will help out a bit on the income side. Hopefully the van down by the river will not be needed.
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FIREd in 2019, going back to work was never one of our "Plan B's" so we haven't really considered it.
We are pretty low budget, so the increased utilities and food are going to be a large percent, but the actual dollar amounts for us should be pretty manageable. Not toss all the original plans and go back to work levels. We will leave that for something truly exciting.
Even though many of our investments are more risky than most of the forum, we are still above where DH and I decided to pull the trigger to begin with. So, if we were working right now, we would be giving our notice....
I am a little sad I can't buy the sales though :(.
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Well I might be heading off to what is my 5th retirement soon.
I have been back to FT work since Jan and honestly was worried if I had any engineering chops left at all. I needn't have worried and have earned more $$ in the last 6 months than in any one year of my working life!
Does it make sense?.. Our highest WR so far has been 0.69%.. And we haven't even started taking pensions yet.
Pensions + SS (@62, I'm 18 months too young) will roughly equate to our total yearly spend in an average year.
So no, there is not one good reason for me to be doing this apart from the entertainment value.
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Very interesting threat - I am not retired yet and already thinking about unretiring :)
In the Netherlands (where I am from) stop working after 50 is basically removing you from the labour pool forever. Re-entering the workforce is not that easy.
Hi Terrable- I found that really interesting and wonder if you can elaborate on why that is.
In Canada it can be more difficult, depending on your work, to get rehired over 50. It seems to be an ageist bias that is very difficult to prove.
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I was just at a biggish event on the weekend and talked to three different guys who had 'retired' but kept being invited back to work (every one of them did some type of project management) and would do a project for a few months and then off for a bit, then back for another project.
They all liked their work and felt they were contributing something of value. One guy, who had been brought in when a pipeline sewage upgrade went badly sideways, said that he hadn't expected too much joy at his arrival, but that they 'seemed willing to listen to an old guy' and that the project was back on track.
He also mentioned that he didn't stand at the side and peer in -- he'd get geared up and go inside the pipes so he could really see what was going on.
A lot of management types wouldn't be willing to crawl/wade around in dark, shit-smeared, knock-you-over-with-the-smell pipes if they could find an excuse not to, and I think that he earned the crew's respect.
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Well I would be lying if I said I had at least thought about it...ahem, cough cough...https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/siren-song-of-megacorp-is-calling/msg3019439/#msg3019439 (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/siren-song-of-megacorp-is-calling/msg3019439/#msg3019439)
As for it being a failure or not if I do, aside from the non-financial reasons, it would serve to ensure my FIRE doesn't become an actual failure in the future given that high inflation has revenge to be a killer. Plus we FIREd in 2019, so still within the SORR hotzone so to speak.We FIREd below 4%....maybe 3.4 or 3.5%. But with increased spending and down markers we are at around 3.75% now.
Increased spending is combo of actual inflation and lifestyle inflation of you want to call it that.....getting a big dog that consumes about $200 of food per month.....oh and eldest getting license so another $2k per year insurance for him....yay.
And I am still not sure I want to or will do it.
I wonder if I will feel differently when SP500 hits 3200 when Fed raises more aggressively AND earnings estimates start coming in at $190 vs $220 currently.
Bond bonds are now earning more, so yay. Ugh
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This thread will likely suffer from the usual confirmation bias - folks don't much incentive to tell everyone they failed vs. proudly proclaiming 'hell no I didn't unretire, I am still successful' - but I'll join in. I have a sneaking suspicion that the job market will be the next shoe that drops, if a recession is setting in.
I am keeping my options open to ER in the next year or two and the 'unretirement market' would be good to understand. I could see myself retiring from my current career and trying something different for a year or two, if only for the health insurance and to get the final kid in to college.
That's a pretty negative and uncharitable take overall. I would think most people here - whether they "had" to go back to work financially or just wanted too for other reasons (bored with early retirement, etc) - would be very willing to be open and upfront with their experiences. Same with the "successful" ERee who happily remained retired even in market downturns. Why would be here otherwise?
I don't know how we'd verify it either way, it's up to each individual as to what they want to share. It's just human nature to be motivated to share things that make them feel good vs. sharing a failure to a bunch of strangers on the internet... I was really impressed with Dr. Doom's blog post, but you don't see much of that...
Edit to add link to the post (https://livingafi.com/2021/03/17/the-2021-early-retirement-update/#more-15998) I mentioned...
I agree with you but I don't see going back to work as a failure. In fact it's part of my back-ups.
The biggest issue with me returning to work is my wife doesn't want me too.
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Yea, I went back to work a few years ago, just before Covid started. No regrets.
1. I can leave anytime. I didn't go back because I *had* to I went back because a neat opportunity came along. I thought I'd do two years and it's been 3 as of this month, and I don't at all feel like I need to stop again soon. I still feel almost as good as when I started, there's a little breakage, but I truly feel that's Covid and not the working.
2. Covid happened and so work from home became a thing, which it turns out, the only thing I really didn't like about work was how inefficient it was to travel there, do the work, waste time in between tasks doing stupid busywork type bullshit, then travel back home. Now work is, sit down and do a thing I sorta like doing, then take a break whenever I want to do whatever I want, cook myself healthy meals still, etc. There are days where I wish I was still retired but it's not even one in twenty.
3. The Covid period taught me that while I'm fine being retired in a sort of super-efficient bare-bones way, I really liked being able to offer financial support to friends and family going through a totally shit time that's not really their fault. So working lets me be charitable in a way I don't mind, to an extent I wouldn't as a retiree. Sure as a retiree I could go over to your house and watch your kids, and that might be fine once or twice, but now I can just pay for the damn babysitter, which I much prefer. Cause I 100% wouldn't volunteer my time as a retiree, I know for sure, and I would also feel guilty about that. So padding the retirement account is going to buy me out of that. Also Neat. Nonsensical. Things. I wouldn't justify as a retiree, like my house I'm designing that's too small for a family of 5 (convenient as I don't have that) and so not available on the market at all. It's going to cost me at least a half mil to build it, and it's horrifically stupid from a financial sense to do it, but I want secret passages, dammit.
4. The 14 months of retirement I had gave me the surety to not tolerate nonsense with employers. I just skip the "mandatory training." I fuckin' walk out of meetings that should've been an email. I bounce emails sent to me by others at the company that are "will you please do my job for me". Lol: nope. I'm unconcerned with anyone's perception of how good a job I'm doing, I just focus on being satisfied for myself that I'm doing a good job. And a weird "Office Space" style thing happened where my employer seems to like me more the more honest I am about what I am willing to do. I tell the truth now, regardless of what I think my employer wants to hear, and as it turns out, the truth is appreciated.
I wouldn't have anxiety about going back to work. There's no hurry is the first thing. If you think you don't have enough money to last forever, you probably have enough money to last a fucking long time. So you have time to find a GREAT job with GREAT people on GREAT terms. Or youtube yourself trying and apparently make 85k a year from it? Kids these days.
At this point I'm 100% on board with recommending a gap year to anyone that's legit miserable at work. Quit on your shit boss. Yesterday. Take a year off, sleep, exercise, heal, rest, reflect, then go find that part-time job or w/e until your impressive savings compound their way to being done.
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SO is doing some pet sitting but, looking at the joint account balance, we're spending well below what we can.
We were -4% in equities/bonds for Q1 and it'll be interesting to see what Q2 is. The blasé attitude re:inflation is mostly due to the rental income account that hasn't been touched (besides i-bond purchases).
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4. The 14 months of retirement I had gave me the surety to not tolerate nonsense with employers. I just skip the "mandatory training." I fuckin' walk out of meetings that should've been an email. I bounce emails sent to me by others at the company that are "will you please do my job for me". Lol: nope. I'm unconcerned with anyone's perception of how good a job I'm doing, I just focus on being satisfied for myself that I'm doing a good job. And a weird "Office Space" style thing happened where my employer seems to like me more the more honest I am about what I am willing to do. I tell the truth now, regardless of what I think my employer wants to hear, and as it turns out, the truth is appreciated.
I wouldn't have anxiety about going back to work. There's no hurry is the first thing. If you think you don't have enough money to last forever, you probably have enough money to last a fucking long time. So you have time to find a GREAT job with GREAT people on GREAT terms. Or youtube yourself trying and apparently make 85k a year from it? Kids these days.
At this point I'm 100% on board with recommending a gap year to anyone that's legit miserable at work. Quit on your shit boss. Yesterday. Take a year off, sleep, exercise, heal, rest, reflect, then go find that part-time job or w/e until your impressive savings compound their way to being done.
Well said!
We think a lot alike!
You have illustrated the "middle way" and another POV between the "you are shit if you go back to work" POV of the retirement police and the "work until your dead" Suzzy Orman methodology.
One addition, if you are working in the "office space" mentality (what a great movie, I watch it every few months as literal motivation, they caught sooooo many truths in that movie, how do more people not "see" that and wake the fuck up?) and the leadership DOESN'T want to hear the truth (many say they do, then get pissed when you share it with them, even if done well) then take that as a sign and move on as soon as you can/want to!
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I retired two years ago at 62, not early by FIRE standards, but I really enjoyed my job, especially the fieldwork part, and didn't want to leave. But I acknowledged my time on this earth to do the other things on my to-do list was short so I called it quits. Two years into RE, I am bored AF and thinking about returning to work, but not at all because of financial considerations.
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In Canada it can be more difficult, depending on your work, to get rehired over 50. It seems to be an ageist bias that is very difficult to prove.
Correct, the same here. But to be honest, I have never switched jobs and still work for my first employer so can't tell you from my own experience. It is just a known fact, a week ago they mentioned it on a newsitem related to the shortage of labor. The 50+ group is basically ignored and sitting at home.
There is another side to the story though, more personal than my age. As mentioned this is my first employer and I am very comfortable there. I'm experienced, appreciated, accepted and earn a very good income for my education level. Job is fun as well, no toxic environment.
Retiring a nice job like that with the knowledge that unretiring means to start all over and proving yourself again, doesn't sound that great. So if I retire - it should be fore good.
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I retired in 2012. DH kept working because he had given up a lot two decades ago to take a job that offered a Defined Benefit Pension with COLA that he loved. He's been on vacation since April. His last official day is July 1. He was originally a painting contractor, and the DBP job is Civil Service in a related field. In his final year, he got the largest raise of his tenure, plus a healthy COLA. One of our rentals turned over recently and we raised the rent by $850/month. We are going to be fine.
DH's only regret is the inability to fund our Roths in retirement. His even wealthier brother makes a point of doing enough easy side gigs to fund his Roth every year. DH has it in the back of his mind to do something like that. Someone always needs a house painted and he still gets calls from people he did work for twenty years ago. At a party last night, friends asked him if he'd consider painting their house. DH wondered if they could wait until next year. I could see the wheels turning, and smiled inwardly. Happily, he could get it done in about a week and earn enough to fund both of our Roths. He didn't actually commit to it and might just recommend someone instead.
If doing just enough outside work to fund our Roths counts as unretiring, it could happen for DH. OTOH, the last two houses he's painted, he's done for free.
I'd bet the odds are no more than 50/50 that he'll do any side work in the future.
Writing this out makes me wonder if rental income counts. Could we put that towards Roths? I don't think so, but if there's a loophole, one of you smart mustachians is going to know.
Notice I'm only talking about DH? I'm too busy to go back to a j-o-b. Not going to happen :-).
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The fear of running out of money keeps nagging at me, irrational as it may be. Retired in January with just over 7 figures, still > 900k. The plan was 3% wr the first 2 years to get good aca rates and start SS in 2 years at 62. I had a some unexpected health costs early this year but am still on track for 3%, probably lower. I've done some contract work with my old employer that has helped. I could go back to my old job if I wanted I'm sure but I was a workaholic, the stress both real and self inflicted was starting to get to me. I wanted to do all the things I was reading about.
But now I fell like I'm pinching every penny twice. I thought I wanted to do some camping around the state (TX) but health problems ruled that out in the spring, now gas and temperature are the problem. Maybe I'll go in the fall. Currently I go out very little. I have a park that I walk to, I to daily to walk, run or bike. I'm a member of a community garden that I can walk to and I work there several times a week. There are several home and garden projects that I have but am delaying because of the cost of materials. When I do go somewhere I try to combine things so I can accomplish several stops in one trip. I spend a lot of time on the internet reading. I get books from the library. I'm ok with this for the most part I guess, but sometimes I fell like I should be doing something more. Just scarred to spend on anything. Maybe with time.
Am I enjoying retirement? Not really, but I feel better not working like I was. Still decompressing I guess.
I ran across this article today.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/06/15/67-year-old-who-unretired-at-62-shares-the-biggest-retirement-challenge-that-no-one-talks-about.html
The concept of ikigai looks interesting and something to look into. Finding a new purpose.
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Am I enjoying retirement? Not really, but I feel better not working like I was. Still decompressing I guess.
Yes, this is the decompression stage that everyone goes through.
I'd recommend "How to Retire Happy, Wild, and Free" by Ernie J Zelinski. Your library probably has it. I'd also recommend "Die with Zero" by Bill Perkins. Die with Zero is great in that it gets you thinking about life differently. One of the concepts is that life is the business of making memories. Good experiences provides pleasure when first experience them but also pay dividends as you recall them months and years later. It also talks about how everything has a time. If you wait too long, you will miss some experiences and regret it.
So, what I'm saying is "damn the torpedoes full speed ahead!"
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The fear of running out of money keeps nagging at me, irrational as it may be. Retired in January with just over 7 figures, still > 900k. The plan was 3% wr the first 2 years to get good aca rates and start SS in 2 years at 62. I had a some unexpected health costs early this year but am still on track for 3%, probably lower. I've done some contract work with my old employer that has helped. I could go back to my old job if I wanted I'm sure but I was a workaholic, the stress both real and self inflicted was starting to get to me. I wanted to do all the things I was reading about.
Is it the money or is it the change that is the issue? Financially if you can cover your expenses off of your stash and then have SS coming in 2 years as a backup, you are really set. Given you likely have the frugal mindset you may have to push yourself to spend or do more. I am not retired but I know i am in the same spot where we set aggressive saving targets and actually end up almost always surpassing them. I have to push myself to spend a little more on vacations and what not.
There is also an element of adaptation to retirement. I am not retired but I took some time off earlier in my career and it was not what I expected. Work makes you appreciate the small things and without work the small things become irrelevant. I found it was actually effort, not a job but real effort, to keep myself motivated and occupied. You have to set goals and push yourself outside of your boundaries. Take chances and don't let yourself get into too much of a routine. Keep pushing to find new things, new experiences. They don't have to cost a lot but do spend the money you do have on these things. I can't stress it enough, retirement does not mean the end of effort, it's not easy and if you don't push yourself you can fall into a routine that may not satisfy you.
I don't mean to sound critical of you in particular, just thinking of my own experience taking long work breaks and the real struggle after the first month or so. I think some personalities do a lot better with that type of freedom and I am not one of them.
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Meh, not unretired but I did spend all of 2021-2022 school year working my side gig (small scale home renovations). Just happened to have a lot of folks contact me summer of 2021. Worked out nicely too because we had some large expenses come up and we were still able to pump some more cash into investments, especially as the markets have taken a shit.
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The fear of running out of money keeps nagging at me, irrational as it may be. Retired in January with just over 7 figures, still > 900k. The plan was 3% wr the first 2 years to get good aca rates and start SS in 2 years at 62. I had a some unexpected health costs early this year but am still on track for 3%, probably lower. I've done some contract work with my old employer that has helped. I could go back to my old job if I wanted I'm sure but I was a workaholic, the stress both real and self inflicted was starting to get to me. I wanted to do all the things I was reading about.
Is it the money or is it the change that is the issue? Financially if you can cover your expenses off of your stash and then have SS coming in 2 years as a backup, you are really set. Given you likely have the frugal mindset you may have to push yourself to spend or do more. I am not retired but I know i am in the same spot where we set aggressive saving targets and actually end up almost always surpassing them. I have to push myself to spend a little more on vacations and what not.
There is also an element of adaptation to retirement. I am not retired but I took some time off earlier in my career and it was not what I expected. Work makes you appreciate the small things and without work the small things become irrelevant. I found it was actually effort, not a job but real effort, to keep myself motivated and occupied. You have to set goals and push yourself outside of your boundaries. Take chances and don't let yourself get into too much of a routine. Keep pushing to find new things, new experiences. They don't have to cost a lot but do spend the money you do have on these things. I can't stress it enough, retirement does not mean the end of effort, it's not easy and if you don't push yourself you can fall into a routine that may not satisfy you.
I don't mean to sound critical of you in particular, just thinking of my own experience taking long work breaks and the real struggle after the first month or so. I think some personalities do a lot better with that type of freedom and I am not one of them.
This is some profoundly excellent advice.
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I might unretire soon, but not to onsite full time. More like "remote coastFIRE until confident" or "remote coastFIRE until I really don't want to work".
A friend showed me his easy online job, put the word out to the employer that I'm ready the next time they staff up a project. We'll see.
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I might unretire soon, but not to onsite full time. More like "remote coastFIRE until confident" or "remote coastFIRE until I really don't want to work".
A friend showed me his easy online job, put the word out to the employer that I'm ready the next time they staff up a project. We'll see.
I feel like there are so many online opportunities for work. My spouse plans on finding some part time online work after retiring just to keep herself busy.
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I considered getting a little pt job at local HD or auto part stores last year. They were all hiring, but none would fit my restrictions and required flexibility. I figured it wasn't meant to be. ;-).
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I considered getting a little pt job at local HD or auto part stores last year. They were all hiring, but none would fit my restrictions and required flexibility. I figured it wasn't meant to be. ;-).
Having the ability to put restrictions on applications and walking away is super powerful! That is very awesome to be in a position to say "hmm, then no thanks."
In a lot of places it seems things are even more stretched than last year. Might be time to add a couple more restrictions and float an app or two.
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I did but not soley b/c of inflation. I was out of it for 6 months and realized that there were still some financial goals that I had. I'm back to work just doing it in a very different way. Having 6 months off gave me a much needed rest and a new perspective on money and on my value as a person (read: where I want to spend my time). So, I'll be in for another 2-4 years.
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I am suddenly thinking about it...help!
I've been on my Sabbatical of Unknown Length/ test-RE for about 10 months. A colleague (not from my former employer) reached out with a work opportunity for a small NGO. It would let me use my skills and stay involved in an important societal cause on which I am a subject matter expert. It would be nice to bring in a little more income and keep our hands off the stash.
Here's where I'm hung up: do I want to start a business so I can legally (in WA) be an independent contractor, aka freelance consultant? Or be a part time, remote (except for 1 in-person meeting each quarter) employee? Seems like they could do either, but with a preference to a consultant contract.
I'm just not sure I want the hassle of starting and running a business. On the other hand, a location-independent p/t job would fit with future plans to travel in FIRE.
I'm only looking for 16 hours/week; I'm just not sure it's worth it given I'd have to do the taxes, invoicing, etc. Also, I will need to buy a laptop since I only have a Surface Go tablet.
Anyone want to convince me/dissuade me from my options above?
(there's also the option to stay on sabbbatical...)
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I've been on my Sabbatical of Unknown Length...
SOUL-searching?
(Sorry...for some reason, I couldn't help myself. It just sort of jumped off the page.)
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Here's where I'm hung up: do I want to start a business so I can legally (in WA) be an independent contractor, aka freelance consultant? Or be a part time, remote (except for 1 in-person meeting each quarter) employee? Seems like they could do either, but with a preference to a consultant contract.
I'm just not sure I want the hassle of starting and running a business. On the other hand, a location-independent p/t job would fit with future plans to travel in FIRE.
You are not the first person who wants to become a consultant and is only creating a company to do that. I suspect this is easier than you expect, since you're starting a one person business. You might want to ask over in the "taxes" area, which tends to also have good answers about accounting and business decisions.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/taxes/
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I've been on my Sabbatical of Unknown Length...
SOUL-searching?
(Sorry...for some reason, I couldn't help myself. It just sort of jumped off the page.)
That's because I totally stole it from another forum member! It was too perfect not to!
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Work makes you appreciate the small things and without work the small things become irrelevant. I found it was actually effort, not a job but real effort, to keep myself motivated and occupied. You have to set goals and push yourself outside of your boundaries. Take chances and don't let yourself get into too much of a routine. Keep pushing to find new things, new experiences. They don't have to cost a lot but do spend the money you do have on these things. I can't stress it enough, retirement does not mean the end of effort, it's not easy and if you don't push yourself you can fall into a routine that may not satisfy you.
Hands down on @frugal_c. I retired at 2018 and went back to a FT job at the summer of 2021. After retirement, we are still us. I found myself run into the same issues at work during my retirement time, e.g. striving for achievements, people pleasing and perfectionist. I slowly downshifted my gear to a place of equilibrium and a good routine. I filled my time with newly found appreciation to slow living.
After I went back to work in 2021, I found my old unhealthy tendencies came up again (as expected). I have been trying to shift down the gears WHILE working. This means to let go of my expectations, become more patient, find satisfaction in certain things, and not give a f**k on everything etc. I work from home 80 to 90% of time so I have tons of flexibility. I am glad that I am working currently because I can:
1) pad more cushion, buy stocks and help my family
2) less opportunity costs because of Covid and DH's health issues
3) get paid to build a healthy lifestyle for my re-FIRE later
The last one is really important because I realize that I can still be miserable or get stuck in an unhealthy lifestyle, even if I retire. Like @frugal_c said, we have to push ourselves to find new experience and find a good routine. It becomes more important after RE when the motivation and structure of a work are gone. I just committed to my psychologist/life coach that I will do more exercise and fun local trips in the next couple of weeks.
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In Canada it can be more difficult, depending on your work, to get rehired over 50. It seems to be an ageist bias that is very difficult to prove.
Correct, the same here. But to be honest, I have never switched jobs and still work for my first employer so can't tell you from my own experience. It is just a known fact, a week ago they mentioned it on a newsitem related to the shortage of labor. The 50+ group is basically ignored and sitting at home.
There is another side to the story though, more personal than my age. As mentioned this is my first employer and I am very comfortable there. I'm experienced, appreciated, accepted and earn a very good income for my education level. Job is fun as well, no toxic environment.
Retiring a nice job like that with the knowledge that unretiring means to start all over and proving yourself again, doesn't sound that great. So if I retire - it should be fore good.
This ageism problem is exactly the same in Belgium. If you get unemployed and you’re 50 or over, you get specific trainings from the unemployment agencies to boost your chances to find a new job (as one of my relatives in that case explained to me a couple of years ago).
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I "retired" like MMM did, in that I retired from my main, full time profession, and have no intention of going back because I physically can't.
I can afford not to work, but I like work, so I'm constantly taking on projects. Some of those projects are compensated, some aren't. I only take on projects I enjoy. I easily walk away from the ones that I stop enjoying.
I enjoy working for free when it makes sense, but I HATE doing work for free when it's just a business entity trying to take advantage of me. So for that work, if it's interesting, I insist on fair compensation, but what's fair isn't some default amount I insist on working for. If it's a $500/hr job, then I'll expect $500/hr, if it's a $30/hr job, then I'll expect $30/hr. It depends on which skills I'm using and what the industry is.
That said, I'm doing another degree right now, which will lead to another career, so even though I have some paying projects at the moment, I won't consider myself "unretired" until I'm back to having an actual career. Not just work that I move in and out of at will.
All of my definitions for myself are 100% arbitrary, like everything to do with defining what "retirement" means for anyone.
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My spouse just started a job this week so I am technically now a SAHP. He should make enough to cover our expenses while the stash recovers but not much more, so I guess we are "barista fire". When people ask what I do I've been telling them I'm on a career break to take care of children, then talk about what I did before. They inevitably ask what my spouse does and then get confused when I tell them he's also a SAHP, so I won't be able to do that any more.
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EscapeVelocity2020 - Would an anonymous poll settle the question of this thread having confirmation bias?
(I could also see the reverse: someone FIRE'd successfully, so they don't have much to share in here, and don't post)
I've considered what to say in this thread, but ultimately I value privacy more than sharing complete details. I was retired for some number of years, then un-retired. Last year I donated ETFs to a donor advised fund, which you can infer means I had money to donate to charity.
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EscapeVelocity2020 - Would an anonymous poll settle the question of this thread having confirmation bias?
(I could also see the reverse: someone FIRE'd successfully, so they don't have much to share in here, and don't post)
I've considered what to say in this thread, but ultimately I value privacy more than sharing complete details. I was retired for some number of years, then un-retired. Last year I donated ETFs to a donor advised fund, which you can infer means I had money to donate to charity.
It would be interesting if there were an anonymous thread version with a poll and people could comment anonymously to add color (since 'unretire' can mean all sorts of things, like you point out. One person may consider it un-retiring or switching careers and another might call it FIRE'd, just working for other than FI reasons).
As to the successful FIREs that leave ER forums to do other things, I guess we'd just have to accept that there is some % of those that wouldn't be represented in the results...
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I guess it's popped in my head but since all the 'losses' are still on paper and not realized I will just wait it out and hope that the 'I' word gets under control, that going into mid-term elections and year end the markets will improve in general
Same.