Author Topic: Any regrets after fire?  (Read 20142 times)

Dicey

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2018, 11:00:32 AM »
Yeah, you canít be truthful all the time with someone with dementia. Try to get her on antidepressants. It makes all the difference.
What makes all the difference for my MIL is Seroquel/Quetiapine:

"Antipsychotic
It can treat schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and depression"

She takes half of the lowest dose they make, just once a day.  She was combative (hitting and biting) and a flight risk. She would not still be in our home without it. Better living through chemistry, indeed, for her and for us. She's not a drugged out zombie, and still hits once in a while, but the burning anger and urge to flee have abated.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 08:49:26 AM by Dicey »

aGracefulStomp

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2018, 04:04:11 PM »
Reading about how many families have taken advantage of persons who FIRE serves as an extremely good lesson for those who aren't FIRE yet.

I had a warning bell go off when I told my parents my savings rate and my dad later brought it up with bitterness and sarcasm. You forget that your parents are human and have the same emotions of jealousy and insecurity to deal with. Seeing as they are horrible with money and have already asked for a loan within 3 months of me starting full-time work, I'm seeing a lot of dark clouds ahead.

I don't plan on telling my family about any of my financial goals and milestones, and have stopped talking about my finances. I have since started downplaying my savings and dropping comments to indicate that my spending has gone up.

Exflyboy

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2018, 12:43:26 AM »
@Jakejake

My MIL (closely followed by her Son) is one of the biggest emotionally abusive narcissists I have ever met!

The problem (for MIL that is) is I don't do bullies.. In fact I have had to help my darling Wife to set some pretty strong boundaries, which after having learned to be a doormat to her overbearing Mother meant a lot of Un-learning.

Now my beloved (AKA HRH.. Hot RedHead) manages her family with aplomb.. I just quietly remain in the background with the metaphorical baseball bat should a toe cross the boundary.

I know this sounds extreme, but the stories I could tell are of the toe curling variety and my BIL has also learned the family tradition, but is much less intelligent so is easy to deal with.

So yeah I have to side with Dicey on this one. Growing a substantial backbone and letting the Parental units fund their own caregiving (either from savings or Medicaid) is definitely the way to go. Of course you can help set it up.. But then you back away rapidly lest you get sucked into the vortex.

HRH has just set up Medicaid for her own Mom.. She doesn't like the plan she has (of course) but it was made clear that if MIL wants to do something different then HRH will do nothing to help her. She has done way more than she should have already.


« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 12:48:53 AM by Exflyboy »

BamBam20

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2018, 07:53:01 AM »
Two years into it, I don't regret doing it, but I regret letting my family know. I had no clue the extent to which they would view me as their personal on call servant/home care health worker, like if work doesn't own me, everyone's free to claim my time except myself.

My sibling who didn't manage her finances as well and is still working, I guess my parents' plan is to reward her with total freedom and to saddle me with permanent responsibility for watching my mom with dementia while dad's in the hospital and then residential rehab or hospice depending how this goes. And then I'm under orders to move my mom to my state against her will to live near me so my golden years can be spent caring for her.

I'm so angry and filled with resentment, especially since when their parents (my grandparents) were all dealing with lingering deaths from cancer or dementia that lasted decades, my parents didn't lift a finger to help with day to day care, they traveled the world enjoying their own early retirement and dumped the responsibility on their siblings (who were all still working full time jobs).

My husband Fire'd in April, I'm about a thousand miles away from him right now living in a freaking retirement community with my mother at the moment with no specific end date. It's the third time in the two years I've been retired I've been told "get a one way plane ticket tomorrow to come down here, you might be here a few weeks".

I would have been happier just working in a lot of ways - and it's not like they can't afford to hire full time care for my mom, she just refuses to acknowledge she needs it so this is their easy way out. I feel like I'm gonna punch out a window though every time they tell someone I'm down here on a vacation.

IF YOU DO IT, DON'T TELL YOUR FAMILY UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.
This is an interesting point. I can definitely imagine that when someone retires early, people in general (family  included) start thinking "well have him/her do it because he/she is not doing anything anyway." Kind of sounds like it might be best to keep advantages (like early retirement) to yourself and keep a stealth wealth low profile. Thanks for the share.

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SwordGuy

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2018, 10:31:40 PM »
Two years into it, I don't regret doing it, but I regret letting my family know. I had no clue the extent to which they would view me as their personal on call servant/home care health worker, like if work doesn't own me, everyone's free to claim my time except myself.

My sibling who didn't manage her finances as well and is still working, I guess my parents' plan is to reward her with total freedom and to saddle me with permanent responsibility for watching my mom with dementia while dad's in the hospital and then residential rehab or hospice depending how this goes. And then I'm under orders to move my mom to my state against her will to live near me so my golden years can be spent caring for her.

I'm so angry and filled with resentment, especially since when their parents (my grandparents) were all dealing with lingering deaths from cancer or dementia that lasted decades, my parents didn't lift a finger to help with day to day care, they traveled the world enjoying their own early retirement and dumped the responsibility on their siblings (who were all still working full time jobs).

My husband Fire'd in April, I'm about a thousand miles away from him right now living in a freaking retirement community with my mother at the moment with no specific end date. It's the third time in the two years I've been retired I've been told "get a one way plane ticket tomorrow to come down here, you might be here a few weeks".

I would have been happier just working in a lot of ways - and it's not like they can't afford to hire full time care for my mom, she just refuses to acknowledge she needs it so this is their easy way out. I feel like I'm gonna punch out a window though every time they tell someone I'm down here on a vacation.

IF YOU DO IT, DON'T TELL YOUR FAMILY UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.
This is an interesting point. I can definitely imagine that when someone retires early, people in general (family  included) start thinking "well have him/her do it because he/she is not doing anything anyway." Kind of sounds like it might be best to keep advantages (like early retirement) to yourself and keep a stealth wealth low profile. Thanks for the share.



Some years ago I was working on a contract in Ethiopia, far from my wife and kids back here in the states.  I came home for Christmas and we all went to visit my parents.   My dad needed cataract surgery so he couldn't see very well and my mom needed some other surgery - I forget what for, but nothing life threatening.  They would both be recovering at the same time.   

They expected me to drop what I was doing and hang around with them for several weeks to take care of them.


I told them that if I didn't go back to work in Ethiopia after Christmas, then the company wouldn't get paid and other folks would not be able to pay their mortgages.   I told them they had plenty of money, they could hire someone to help with the chores and such while they recovered.


They did not like that answer.   


If they hadn't had other options, of course I would have found a way to help them.  But they were perfectly capable of helping themselves so I expected them to do so.


Sometimes tough love is the answer.



Jakejake

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2018, 09:17:19 AM »
They expected me to drop what I was doing and hang around with them for several weeks to take care of them.

I told them that if I didn't go back to work in Ethiopia after Christmas, then the company wouldn't get paid and other folks would not be able to pay their mortgages.   I told them they had plenty of money, they could hire someone to help with the chores and such while they recovered.

They did not like that answer.   
Wow. That's unbelievable that you weren't even retired, and they tried to pull that on you!  Especially since cataract surgery can be staggered doing one eye, then the other, and it sounds like the two surgeries with your parents didn't have to be scheduled at the same time anyway if they weren't life threatening.

An update from me - I flew back home the second week in June. My mom threatened some violence against the woman we hired to help her out and we ended up letting her go for her own safety. I think mom believed that would magically cause me to fly back down there. Nope. 

I got a revealing glimpse into her mind, though. My sister reported that mom complained I hadn't even been down to visit since dad got sick. My sister corrected her. Mom got huffy saying "well, yes, for one week. But not permanently."

Ha. Confirming what I suspected - the expectation is for me to leave my husband to move in with her for the rest of her life. That makes it a thousand times easier now to just keep saying no, understanding that whenever I go it doesn't result in gratitude, just resentment because I eventually return home.


Exflyboy

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2018, 09:11:53 PM »
@Jakejake .. Now you're getting it!

Your Mother is a narcissist and you are expected to be a doormat.. There in only one way to break the cycle and that is .. "Hell NO!"


Good for you!

Whiskey

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #57 on: July 21, 2018, 06:52:17 PM »
Two years into it, I don't regret doing it, but I regret letting my family know. I had no clue the extent to which they would view me as their personal on call servant/home care health worker, like if work doesn't own me, everyone's free to claim my time except myself.

My sibling who didn't manage her finances as well and is still working, I guess my parents' plan is to reward her with total freedom and to saddle me with permanent responsibility for watching my mom with dementia while dad's in the hospital and then residential rehab or hospice depending how this goes. And then I'm under orders to move my mom to my state against her will to live near me so my golden years can be spent caring for her.

I'm so angry and filled with resentment, especially since when their parents (my grandparents) were all dealing with lingering deaths from cancer or dementia that lasted decades, my parents didn't lift a finger to help with day to day care, they traveled the world enjoying their own early retirement and dumped the responsibility on their siblings (who were all still working full time jobs).

My husband Fire'd in April, I'm about a thousand miles away from him right now living in a freaking retirement community with my mother at the moment with no specific end date. It's the third time in the two years I've been retired I've been told "get a one way plane ticket tomorrow to come down here, you might be here a few weeks".

I would have been happier just working in a lot of ways - and it's not like they can't afford to hire full time care for my mom, she just refuses to acknowledge she needs it so this is their easy way out. I feel like I'm gonna punch out a window though every time they tell someone I'm down here on a vacation.

IF YOU DO IT, DON'T TELL YOUR FAMILY UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.
@Jakejake, oh wow! I'm a caregiver for my MIL who has ALZ and lives with us. I had literally met her once before DH and  I eloped. Three weeks later, DH's dad died and we realized there was a problem. That was over 5 years ago.

This makes me perhaps more qualified than most here to do this: Sorry, but you're desperately in need of a face punch. As kind and gentle a face punch as possible, but still a face punch. No one can take advantage of you unless you let them! You need to dig deep and figure out why you are allowing them to manipulate you. This hair shirt you are wearing needs to be shed. You might want to consider a little bit of counselling to figure out why you are letting your parents literally shit on you. This is NOT okay, and it's clearly not good for your health or your marriage. This is serious "Put on your air mask first time."

Shocking as this sounds,  this problem is NOT about being FIRE. The dynamics that allow them to play you like this exist whether you are working or not. You must learn how to defend yourself. Otherwise, the danger of losing yourself down their rabbit hole is real.

YOU CAN DO THIS!


This!

SunnyMoney

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2018, 12:33:08 PM »
ER'd Mustachnians: Do any of you have any regrets, or 2nd guessed your decision to fire?  Haunted by what if thoughts etc?

Bringing up an old thread...
My main regret is retiring before my DH.  At the time I was not happy at my career and wanted to be done with it.  I thought he would follow me to retirement within 12 months but that was 7 years ago and he's still working.  I seriously underestimated how happy he is at his work.

Writing this I realize my main regret is actually something more like "I regret believing my DH would be my companion in retirement.  I regret believing that we would do activities together and travel together."  Retirement has been much more home tethered than I thought it would be because I still want to be with him evenings and weekends.

BPA

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2018, 10:52:26 AM »
I have no regrets. I think I REd at exactly the right time for me. I actually said one day at work shortly before I quit, "I think I am going to need to start abusing substances to deal with all of this crap" and I meant it. I am convinced that FIRE saved my life and sanity.

Someone else posted about engaging in too much change right after FIRE being a bad idea. I never really thought about that before, but I can see it.

Selling the house and moving half-way across the country was what we wanted, but it was really quite stressful. It took me a short while after RE to decompress. That decompression was necessary before making the big decision like a big move.

Life is really good. The cost for each person living in my duplex is about $200 a month (utilities, internet, insurance, property tax), although, of course, upkeep is a bit more than that. So, our expenses are low. My investments have done reasonably well and I'm actually working a bit again. I actually love it. I have found the job that has all of the things I loved about my former job, without the bullshit. I'm substitute teaching. I love it. I work when I want and where I want and I'm not worried at all if two weeks go by without a call. I don't have to mark or do report cards or deal with difficult parents, or brutal internal politics. I just get to hang out with and teach kids, and I always loved that part.

happy

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2018, 05:20:13 AM »
I'm only recently FIREd but no regrets at all. :) happy camper.

thriftyc

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #61 on: December 31, 2018, 07:49:57 AM »
I have no regrets. I think I REd at exactly the right time for me. I actually said one day at work shortly before I quit, "I think I am going to need to start abusing substances to deal with all of this crap" and I meant it. I am convinced that FIRE saved my life and sanity.

Someone else posted about engaging in too much change right after FIRE being a bad idea. I never really thought about that before, but I can see it.

Selling the house and moving half-way across the country was what we wanted, but it was really quite stressful. It took me a short while after RE to decompress. That decompression was necessary before making the big decision like a big move.

Life is really good. The cost for each person living in my duplex is about $200 a month (utilities, internet, insurance, property tax), although, of course, upkeep is a bit more than that. So, our expenses are low. My investments have done reasonably well and I'm actually working a bit again. I actually love it. I have found the job that has all of the things I loved about my former job, without the bullshit. I'm substitute teaching. I love it. I work when I want and where I want and I'm not worried at all if two weeks go by without a call. I don't have to mark or do report cards or deal with difficult parents, or brutal internal politics. I just get to hang out with and teach kids, and I always loved that part.

Glad to hear the move has panned out well for you!

chasesfish

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2019, 04:43:10 PM »
I have no regrets. I think I REd at exactly the right time for me. I actually said one day at work shortly before I quit, "I think I am going to need to start abusing substances to deal with all of this crap" and I meant it. I am convinced that FIRE saved my life and sanity.

Someone else posted about engaging in too much change right after FIRE being a bad idea. I never really thought about that before, but I can see it.

Selling the house and moving half-way across the country was what we wanted, but it was really quite stressful. It took me a short while after RE to decompress. That decompression was necessary before making the big decision like a big move.

Life is really good. The cost for each person living in my duplex is about $200 a month (utilities, internet, insurance, property tax), although, of course, upkeep is a bit more than that. So, our expenses are low. My investments have done reasonably well and I'm actually working a bit again. I actually love it. I have found the job that has all of the things I loved about my former job, without the bullshit. I'm substitute teaching. I love it. I work when I want and where I want and I'm not worried at all if two weeks go by without a call. I don't have to mark or do report cards or deal with difficult parents, or brutal internal politics. I just get to hang out with and teach kids, and I always loved that part.

I appreciate hearing this.  I am slowly coming around to the idea of keeping our current house and traveling a bunch in the first six to twelve months.  I don't *want* to stay here long term, but we don't know where we want to go and selling a house, buying another house, and moving 1,000 miles would be a complete pain in the rear. 

I also have a once in a lifetime kind of consulting/flexible work potential later in 2019 that might be worth playing around with part time. 

BPA

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2019, 05:55:11 PM »
I have no regrets. I think I REd at exactly the right time for me. I actually said one day at work shortly before I quit, "I think I am going to need to start abusing substances to deal with all of this crap" and I meant it. I am convinced that FIRE saved my life and sanity.

Someone else posted about engaging in too much change right after FIRE being a bad idea. I never really thought about that before, but I can see it.

Selling the house and moving half-way across the country was what we wanted, but it was really quite stressful. It took me a short while after RE to decompress. That decompression was necessary before making the big decision like a big move.

Life is really good. The cost for each person living in my duplex is about $200 a month (utilities, internet, insurance, property tax), although, of course, upkeep is a bit more than that. So, our expenses are low. My investments have done reasonably well and I'm actually working a bit again. I actually love it. I have found the job that has all of the things I loved about my former job, without the bullshit. I'm substitute teaching. I love it. I work when I want and where I want and I'm not worried at all if two weeks go by without a call. I don't have to mark or do report cards or deal with difficult parents, or brutal internal politics. I just get to hang out with and teach kids, and I always loved that part.

I appreciate hearing this.  I am slowly coming around to the idea of keeping our current house and traveling a bunch in the first six to twelve months.  I don't *want* to stay here long term, but we don't know where we want to go and selling a house, buying another house, and moving 1,000 miles would be a complete pain in the rear. 

I also have a once in a lifetime kind of consulting/flexible work potential later in 2019 that might be worth playing around with part time.

We made the move two years after I FIREd. We've been here almost a year now and love it.

And yeah...my old job was killing me. This new job which is just the best parts of my old job is amazing. I'm working two days this week that I know of so far: tomorrow and Wednesday. I might work Friday too if a job comes up, but I think I'll take Thursday off since two days in a row is enough for me. lol So, I say go for the part-time consulting and flexible work schedule. As I say to myself, if I start hating what I'm doing now I can just quit. I love the freedom and flexibility of not needing to work.


Linea_Norway

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2019, 01:03:38 AM »
I have no regrets. I think I REd at exactly the right time for me. I actually said one day at work shortly before I quit, "I think I am going to need to start abusing substances to deal with all of this crap" and I meant it. I am convinced that FIRE saved my life and sanity.

Someone else posted about engaging in too much change right after FIRE being a bad idea. I never really thought about that before, but I can see it.

Selling the house and moving half-way across the country was what we wanted, but it was really quite stressful. It took me a short while after RE to decompress. That decompression was necessary before making the big decision like a big move.

Life is really good. The cost for each person living in my duplex is about $200 a month (utilities, internet, insurance, property tax), although, of course, upkeep is a bit more than that. So, our expenses are low. My investments have done reasonably well and I'm actually working a bit again. I actually love it. I have found the job that has all of the things I loved about my former job, without the bullshit. I'm substitute teaching. I love it. I work when I want and where I want and I'm not worried at all if two weeks go by without a call. I don't have to mark or do report cards or deal with difficult parents, or brutal internal politics. I just get to hang out with and teach kids, and I always loved that part.

I appreciate hearing this.  I am slowly coming around to the idea of keeping our current house and traveling a bunch in the first six to twelve months.  I don't *want* to stay here long term, but we don't know where we want to go and selling a house, buying another house, and moving 1,000 miles would be a complete pain in the rear. 

I also have a once in a lifetime kind of consulting/flexible work potential later in 2019 that might be worth playing around with part time.

I also hear this. Most of our stash is in our clown house, so we need to sell to be able to FIRE. If I could guarantee that the house wouldn't lose it's value in the next years, we could keep living there a bit until after we have decompressed. But I know what can happen to house prices, they can easily go down 50% in a bad year and then take years to recover. That would blow FIRE for us.

I think I am therefore in the situation that we need to start the process of selling the house while we still work, in the string 2019. Find our what we can sell it for and then decide if it is high enough to FIRE. And we still need to earn enough in 2019 to finance the year 2019, so the plan is to work until October. The house might be difficult to sell and take months to find the right buyer. It also pays off to wait until we get a really good price, because we are talking about tax free money that will be our FIRE budget.

So our plan is:
During this winter: paint some of the wood indoors to make the house look fresh for sale. Also finishing some lists that are missing. Putting the house for sale in May or whenever the snow is gone and the steep road is easy to drive. It will be full stress/high blood pressure to get everything in good order. We are now both working 80%, to reduce stress levels, so I hope we have more energy to do it now than last time we moved, which was mega-stressful.
I hope we find a buyer somewhere before the summer, but in worst case much later. When finding a buyer, we need to agree on a date to move out, preferably in the beginning of October.
We should use the summer vacation to find out where we really want to move to, as we don't have a very solid plan yet, just some loose ideas. We need to find a rental and hire it from a certain date, preferably without too much overlap.
We need to quit are jobs with a 3 calendar month! notice period. So maybe per first of July. Then we must have sold, to know the price.
Then we need to move to another part of the country, which is not something you drive back and forth in a day, it is more like 1,5 -2 days driving. How to move? We probably need to sell/ditch most of our current furniture and buy other second hand stuff over there. Or rent a furnished rental. We will need to move our personal items/hobby stuff. I am stiff thinking of what we be a low cost option. Driving ourselves twice? Renting a van and keep our furniture? My job has a hanger I could rent as long as I'm still working there, but I probably won't. Hiring a moving company? Hiring container transport overseas? I am also worried that the need to get replacement furniture will be something we lose money on in the process. But moving it will be costly.

Do you see the stress coming?? I am almost sleeping badly because of all this already now.

I think I will ask DH if we can prepare for that I start the indoors painting. That is at least something I could start on. I have also found one possible estate broker, but I am not convinced about her follow up.
Edit: the broker just called. They have now a new office in our local village, which I guess is good. She will visit us again next week and give us her price. I will put some pressure on DH to get this thing going as planned.

BPA

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2019, 04:26:31 AM »
@Linda_Norway Good luck with everything.

Moving across the country is stressful. We moved a twenty hour drive away from our old location, so similar to your situation. Selling a house is stressful. The good thing is that you have a plan.

And I think that selling most of your stuff is a good idea. We moved too much of our stuff. And honestly, quite a few things got broken or damaged.

I hear you about worrying about the housing market. I had an $80k mortgage on my old house and about one third of my net worth was the equity in my house. As it turns out, I got lucky. Part of the timing of selling and buying elsewhere was smart, but a lot of it was luck. My old house had a nice run up in value from just before I REd and continue right up until I sold it. The Canadian government introduced new policies to try to prevent a housing bubble with a "stress test" for new mortgages. That came into being on January 1, 2018, and I sold on December 6, 2017. The woman, who bought my house sight unseen, said she was eager to get into our neighbourhood before the new stress test. I had been hoping some people would think that way. It also helped that my house was the lowest priced non-condo on the market in our area. So, I was able to sell in a day and a half.

I bought a house in a different province for almost one third less than what I got for my place in Ontario. It's way nicer and has an apartment which is what I wanted for my son. I'm in a very small city but I'm central and can walk to everything I need.

I will say that it was such a relief to finally move in here and be done with it all. We had to fly with five pets which was its own challenge. Why do they make you take cats out of their carriers at security? I wonder if anyone has ever actually smuggled something on board via a cat. Luckily we managed it with few scratches.

I'll have to check to see if you have a journal so that I can follow your story. Best of luck.

tl;dr
Good luck. You have a good plan!

MrOnyx

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2019, 05:37:01 AM »
This thread has been a great read, and started with a great question.

Being young, dumb and naive, I announced that I would like to retire before I'm 40 to my parents. Yeah, they laughed, but after explaining to them how one might go about doing that, they realised that I'm taking it seriously and that it is actually possible (even if they don't fully understand compounded interested etc.) I regret this somewhat. I have close family members that hate their jobs. One of them asked me a question. I can't remember the phrasing, but they were basically asking if I could(/why I couldn't) also bail them out of having to work anymore. When they asked that, I was in stunned silence. I couldn't believe it. Before I could formulate some words, they started laying it on thick, 'oh you can't help your own poor [family member] out?'.

Do you even know how this works? Do you not realise just how much it's going to take for me to do this for myself alone? Do you realise exactly what you're asking from me?

To be honest, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. It was out of character for them, they were possibly tired or a little drunk idk, and they only brought it up like that ONCE. They either realised their mistake and resolved not to ask again, or they think I'm a selfish pig. Frankly, I don't care as long as it isn't brought up ever again or used against me.

I want to spend the time in between now and achieving FI doing my best to not mention it again, and to hope that nobody else does. So far so not good. It's brought up now and again how I'm tucking money away - but at the moment, it's to save for a mortgage, so once that's all done, I think more opportunity will present itself to slip away. I do not want to be emotionally blackmailed for the selfish act of only spending enough time to save up for one person to retire rather than the whole family, as though that's all collectively my responsibility...

chasesfish

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #67 on: January 09, 2019, 05:39:44 AM »
@Linda_Norway and @BPA different countries but exact same problems on housing!

One twist happened for me this week that I'm exploring, they updated our company's leave of absence policy.   I'm probably going to request a one year leave of absence (with zero intention of coming back).   If I could actually get that approved, I pickup an extra low six-figure payout in 2020 but would need to keep an address here.  That would be a windfall that solves a lot of issues with the house. 

Linea_Norway

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #68 on: January 09, 2019, 05:57:37 AM »
@Linda_Norway and @BPA different countries but exact same problems on housing!

One twist happened for me this week that I'm exploring, they updated our company's leave of absence policy.   I'm probably going to request a one year leave of absence (with zero intention of coming back).   If I could actually get that approved, I pickup an extra low six-figure payout in 2020 but would need to keep an address here.  That would be a windfall that solves a lot of issues with the house.

Seems like a good solution. And a six figure payout for not working??? I want that too, but I'm afraid it is not going to work. But in case your FIRE becomes more expensive than you planned, you can always go back to your job after a year and work a bit longer.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2019, 06:06:10 AM »
@Linda_Norway Good luck with everything.

Moving across the country is stressful. We moved a twenty hour drive away from our old location, so similar to your situation. Selling a house is stressful. The good thing is that you have a plan.

And I think that selling most of your stuff is a good idea. We moved too much of our stuff. And honestly, quite a few things got broken or damaged.

I hear you about worrying about the housing market. I had an $80k mortgage on my old house and about one third of my net worth was the equity in my house. As it turns out, I got lucky. Part of the timing of selling and buying elsewhere was smart, but a lot of it was luck. My old house had a nice run up in value from just before I REd and continue right up until I sold it. The Canadian government introduced new policies to try to prevent a housing bubble with a "stress test" for new mortgages. That came into being on January 1, 2018, and I sold on December 6, 2017. The woman, who bought my house sight unseen, said she was eager to get into our neighbourhood before the new stress test. I had been hoping some people would think that way. It also helped that my house was the lowest priced non-condo on the market in our area. So, I was able to sell in a day and a half.

I bought a house in a different province for almost one third less than what I got for my place in Ontario. It's way nicer and has an apartment which is what I wanted for my son. I'm in a very small city but I'm central and can walk to everything I need.

I will say that it was such a relief to finally move in here and be done with it all. We had to fly with five pets which was its own challenge. Why do they make you take cats out of their carriers at security? I wonder if anyone has ever actually smuggled something on board via a cat. Luckily we managed it with few scratches.

I'll have to check to see if you have a journal so that I can follow your story. Best of luck.

tl;dr
Good luck. You have a good plan!

I don't have a journal (yet). But maybe I should make one for the final stage, as I sort of feel the need to write about it and do now in several threads.

Flying with so many cats sounds like a real challenge. Yes, I suppose people have tried to smuggle stuff in every way possible.

BPA

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #70 on: January 09, 2019, 08:13:19 AM »
@Linda_Norway Good luck with everything.

Moving across the country is stressful. We moved a twenty hour drive away from our old location, so similar to your situation. Selling a house is stressful. The good thing is that you have a plan.

And I think that selling most of your stuff is a good idea. We moved too much of our stuff. And honestly, quite a few things got broken or damaged.

I hear you about worrying about the housing market. I had an $80k mortgage on my old house and about one third of my net worth was the equity in my house. As it turns out, I got lucky. Part of the timing of selling and buying elsewhere was smart, but a lot of it was luck. My old house had a nice run up in value from just before I REd and continue right up until I sold it. The Canadian government introduced new policies to try to prevent a housing bubble with a "stress test" for new mortgages. That came into being on January 1, 2018, and I sold on December 6, 2017. The woman, who bought my house sight unseen, said she was eager to get into our neighbourhood before the new stress test. I had been hoping some people would think that way. It also helped that my house was the lowest priced non-condo on the market in our area. So, I was able to sell in a day and a half.

I bought a house in a different province for almost one third less than what I got for my place in Ontario. It's way nicer and has an apartment which is what I wanted for my son. I'm in a very small city but I'm central and can walk to everything I need.

I will say that it was such a relief to finally move in here and be done with it all. We had to fly with five pets which was its own challenge. Why do they make you take cats out of their carriers at security? I wonder if anyone has ever actually smuggled something on board via a cat. Luckily we managed it with few scratches.

I'll have to check to see if you have a journal so that I can follow your story. Best of luck.

tl;dr
Good luck. You have a good plan!

I don't have a journal (yet). But maybe I should make one for the final stage, as I sort of feel the need to write about it and do now in several threads.

Flying with so many cats sounds like a real challenge. Yes, I suppose people have tried to smuggle stuff in every way possible.

I started my journal within three months of leaving my job. I found it really helpful because I was sure I was going to chicken out. But I didn't. I really appreciated all the support I got. My journal and the Class of 2015 thread helped me a lot.

BPA

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #71 on: January 09, 2019, 08:15:01 AM »
@Linda_Norway and @BPA different countries but exact same problems on housing!

One twist happened for me this week that I'm exploring, they updated our company's leave of absence policy.   I'm probably going to request a one year leave of absence (with zero intention of coming back).   If I could actually get that approved, I pickup an extra low six-figure payout in 2020 but would need to keep an address here.  That would be a windfall that solves a lot of issues with the house.

Seems like a good solution. And a six figure payout for not working??? I want that too, but I'm afraid it is not going to work. But in case your FIRE becomes more expensive than you planned, you can always go back to your job after a year and work a bit longer.

I agree that it sounds like a great solution @chasesfish .

BPA

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2019, 08:37:58 AM »
This thread has been a great read, and started with a great question.

Being young, dumb and naive, I announced that I would like to retire before I'm 40 to my parents. Yeah, they laughed, but after explaining to them how one might go about doing that, they realised that I'm taking it seriously and that it is actually possible (even if they don't fully understand compounded interested etc.) I regret this somewhat. I have close family members that hate their jobs. One of them asked me a question. I can't remember the phrasing, but they were basically asking if I could(/why I couldn't) also bail them out of having to work anymore. When they asked that, I was in stunned silence. I couldn't believe it. Before I could formulate some words, they started laying it on thick, 'oh you can't help your own poor [family member] out?'.

Do you even know how this works? Do you not realise just how much it's going to take for me to do this for myself alone? Do you realise exactly what you're asking from me?

To be honest, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. It was out of character for them, they were possibly tired or a little drunk idk, and they only brought it up like that ONCE. They either realised their mistake and resolved not to ask again, or they think I'm a selfish pig. Frankly, I don't care as long as it isn't brought up ever again or used against me.

I want to spend the time in between now and achieving FI doing my best to not mention it again, and to hope that nobody else does. So far so not good. It's brought up now and again how I'm tucking money away - but at the moment, it's to save for a mortgage, so once that's all done, I think more opportunity will present itself to slip away. I do not want to be emotionally blackmailed for the selfish act of only spending enough time to save up for one person to retire rather than the whole family, as though that's all collectively my responsibility...

Ugh. Something sort of similar happened to me with my mother.

My mother drives me crazy. She was the one who taught me to be frugal, and for that I'm grateful. But she was also the one who taught other people in my family that my sister and I should take care of them (including her if necessary) because we make (or in my case, made) professional salaries.

I found a compromise that works for me. I love my brother a lot. He is one of my best friends and we survived the same shitty, traumatic childhood. I'm sure he has PTSD from it. A few years ago he moved in with me, and my goal is not to make money from him, but to provide him with an "at cost" home. So he pays for his share of the utilities and a little bit more that I figure goes to property tax and insurance. So, although I lose the opportunity cost for being able to rent out that bedroom for a profit, I realistically know that I wouldn't bother with that anyway. He's costing me nothing, but I'm helping him out. He works, but part-time only in order to help with his significant anxiety.

I don't want to suggest that you should do the same thing. Everyone's family dynamic is different. But I understand how you feel. My FIRE is a very frugal fire ($15k-$18k a year) and I resent when my mother acts like I can pay for everything for everyone because I must be rich. For example, she told my brother that I should be the one to pay for him to fly back to Ontario to visit her. And I won't even get started about my sister who is completely toxic and feels as entitled to my money as I am.

The good thing about this community is that we have an outlet for discussing these sorts of issues. I'm sorry your parents weren't more supportive, and it's totally understandable that you don't feel you can share your FIRE dream with them.

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2019, 08:52:34 AM »
Ugh. Something sort of similar happened to me with my mother.

My mother drives me crazy. She was the one who taught me to be frugal, and for that I'm grateful. But she was also the one who taught other people in my family that my sister and I should take care of them (including her if necessary) because we make (or in my case, made) professional salaries.

I found a compromise that works for me. I love my brother a lot. He is one of my best friends and we survived the same shitty, traumatic childhood. I'm sure he has PTSD from it. A few years ago he moved in with me, and my goal is not to make money from him, but to provide him with an "at cost" home. So he pays for his share of the utilities and a little bit more that I figure goes to property tax and insurance. So, although I lose the opportunity cost for being able to rent out that bedroom for a profit, I realistically know that I wouldn't bother with that anyway. He's costing me nothing, but I'm helping him out. He works, but part-time only in order to help with his significant anxiety.

I don't want to suggest that you should do the same thing. Everyone's family dynamic is different. But I understand how you feel. My FIRE is a very frugal fire ($15k-$18k a year) and I resent when my mother acts like I can pay for everything for everyone because I must be rich. For example, she told my brother that I should be the one to pay for him to fly back to Ontario to visit her. And I won't even get started about my sister who is completely toxic and feels as entitled to my money as I am.

The good thing about this community is that we have an outlet for discussing these sorts of issues. I'm sorry your parents weren't more supportive, and it's totally understandable that you don't feel you can share your FIRE dream with them.

I'm sorry to hear that, and thanks for sharing. My biggest fear and the worst case scenario is that that little outburst was a sign of things to come. Best case scenario was like I said - it was an out-of-character moment that won't be repeated. I was just shocked by the gall of it - to ask a person to save up for your retirement for you while you continue to spend rather than save your own money. Don't get me wrong - this person does contribute to a pension, but they're no FIRE-er. I love my family to bits, and that's probably why this hit harder than it might have otherwise.

I'm glad that you were able to provide a shelter for your brother from what sounds like an awful situation. I'll bet he's really grateful, and I'll bet that the aforementioned childhood is what has caused his anxiety. Hoping for the best for both of you.

As an aside, damn, you're living off of less than my small UK salary! If that's not inspiring, then I don't know what is!

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2019, 09:03:59 AM »
This thread has been a great read, and started with a great question.

Being young, dumb and naive, I announced that I would like to retire before I'm 40 to my parents. Yeah, they laughed, but after explaining to them how one might go about doing that, they realised that I'm taking it seriously and that it is actually possible (even if they don't fully understand compounded interested etc.) I regret this somewhat. I have close family members that hate their jobs. One of them asked me a question. I can't remember the phrasing, but they were basically asking if I could(/why I couldn't) also bail them out of having to work anymore. When they asked that, I was in stunned silence. I couldn't believe it. Before I could formulate some words, they started laying it on thick, 'oh you can't help your own poor [family member] out?'.

Do you even know how this works? Do you not realise just how much it's going to take for me to do this for myself alone? Do you realise exactly what you're asking from me?

To be honest, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. It was out of character for them, they were possibly tired or a little drunk idk, and they only brought it up like that ONCE. They either realised their mistake and resolved not to ask again, or they think I'm a selfish pig. Frankly, I don't care as long as it isn't brought up ever again or used against me.

I want to spend the time in between now and achieving FI doing my best to not mention it again, and to hope that nobody else does. So far so not good. It's brought up now and again how I'm tucking money away - but at the moment, it's to save for a mortgage, so once that's all done, I think more opportunity will present itself to slip away. I do not want to be emotionally blackmailed for the selfish act of only spending enough time to save up for one person to retire rather than the whole family, as though that's all collectively my responsibility...

That's when you send him the link to MMM or any of half a dozen other FIRE websites and tell him, sure, here's how you too can retire at 40.

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2019, 09:23:26 AM »
@MrOnyx : I hope it was a one-off and no doubt they are just really worried about the family member they suggested you help out. I can understand that, but do think it's unfair to you. I like @Pigeon 's suggestion.

My other sister, the non-toxic one, was so stressed out by her job, that she asked me the particulars of how I managed to FIRE. I told her about ERE and MMM and YMOYL. It gave her a lot of peace of mind since she took a look at her total net worth and realizes that she could FIRE or at the very least have a hefty FU sum if she needed it.




MrOnyx

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2019, 09:52:06 AM »
Sorry, BPA, for clarity, they were asking me to help them out, not someone else. They were requesting me to FIRE them and me at the same time.

Oh cool! I can only imagine her elation at finding that out. It seems astounding to me - that someone can accidentally save for FIRE without even knowing what FIRE is - it seems like such a deliberate thing to do and set out for, but it happens, I guess! Congrats to her :)

Thanks for the suggestion, Pigeon, but this person is already over 40, and by the time I FIRE, they'll be approaching regular retirement age anyway - if I wanted to facilitate their early retirement too, it'd take a bit longer - possibly until way after they hit state pension age! I'd happily help them out, but it would be physically impossible to do as they ask, sadly. I could point them in MMM's way anyway. As long as they don't start poking holes in it and leaving me rolling my eyes.

I shan't derail this thread any further, though. Thanks for the suggestions and words, guys :)

chasesfish

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2019, 11:34:25 AM »
@Linda_Norway and @BPA different countries but exact same problems on housing!

One twist happened for me this week that I'm exploring, they updated our company's leave of absence policy.   I'm probably going to request a one year leave of absence (with zero intention of coming back).   If I could actually get that approved, I pickup an extra low six-figure payout in 2020 but would need to keep an address here.  That would be a windfall that solves a lot of issues with the house.


Seems like a good solution. And a six figure payout for not working??? I want that too, but I'm afraid it is not going to work. But in case your FIRE becomes more expensive than you planned, you can always go back to your job after a year and work a bit longer.

I've been declined when I tried before, but it was on the basis of policy not allowing it.  I only give it a 25% chance, but worth a shot.  The great thing about the power dynamic of walk-away money, if I'm told no and then resign, I at least tried

Skyhigh

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #78 on: January 13, 2019, 11:18:06 PM »

I have many friends who were able to retire early and it has not gone well. They become bored, spent more money than they should have, got divorced, became depressed, and experienced many other ills. The biggest one in my opinion is the waste of potential. The stress of work gets us out of bed in the morning, provides a purpose, community, and method of inclusion to the moving world around us.

Others who kept working in spite of accomplishing FI seem much happier to me. FI converts work into a choice and that can make all the diffrence.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #79 on: January 14, 2019, 01:20:25 AM »

I have many friends who were able to retire early and it has not gone well. They become bored, spent more money than they should have, got divorced, became depressed, and experienced many other ills. The biggest one in my opinion is the waste of potential. The stress of work gets us out of bed in the morning, provides a purpose, community, and method of inclusion to the moving world around us.

Others who kept working in spite of accomplishing FI seem much happier to me. FI converts work into a choice and that can make all the diffrence.

That is quit shocking to hear.

Still, I think working a normal, stressful job 5 days a week is not the final answer to a meaning of life and getting up in the morning. Stress is bad for your health and fulltime work doesnot give your many options to do your own stuff. But maybe some parttime, low stress but meaningful work could be nice. This could also be achieved by volunteering somewhere.

BPA

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2019, 02:38:07 AM »

I have many friends who were able to retire early and it has not gone well. They become bored, spent more money than they should have, got divorced, became depressed, and experienced many other ills. The biggest one in my opinion is the waste of potential. The stress of work gets us out of bed in the morning, provides a purpose, community, and method of inclusion to the moving world around us.

Others who kept working in spite of accomplishing FI seem much happier to me. FI converts work into a choice and that can make all the diffrence.

That is quit shocking to hear.

Still, I think working a normal, stressful job 5 days a week is not the final answer to a meaning of life and getting up in the morning. Stress is bad for your health and fulltime work doesnot give your many options to do your own stuff. But maybe some parttime, low stress but meaningful work could be nice. This could also be achieved by volunteering somewhere.

Agreed. A job, particularly a stressful one, is not a requirement for a happy life. No wonder those people were depressed if they thought that work could be their only sense of purpose. I would think that the solution would be to find something else to do, not stay in a stressful career.

That attitude makes me feel so sad for those people.

I'm glad to see that most of the FIRE crowd here has more imagination and greater optimism.

MrOnyx

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2019, 02:59:36 AM »

I have many friends who were able to retire early and it has not gone well. They become bored, spent more money than they should have, got divorced, became depressed, and experienced many other ills. The biggest one in my opinion is the waste of potential. The stress of work gets us out of bed in the morning, provides a purpose, community, and method of inclusion to the moving world around us.

Others who kept working in spite of accomplishing FI seem much happier to me. FI converts work into a choice and that can make all the diffrence.

Aye, we humans are intelligent and require a steady stream of intellectual stimulation in order to remain satisfied. The curveballs and drama of a full time working career is one way to facilitate that, but as others have said, it is not the only way.

I believe that when you FIRE, it is important to not stop. I read it somewhere - was it in a MMM article or somewhere else? - that one way to achieve this is to play the "And then?" game. Ask yourself what you're going to do when you retire. Once you have your answer, respond with "And then?" You keep doing this until you have some solid long-term goals lined up, then you work towards them. This will provide that stimuli that we crave. Retiring early gives you the chance to do that thing you thought you never had time for while you were working. Write that novel. Learn that skill. Accomplish that task. Don't squander it - the idea is that you retire early enough to still have the energy for all that stuff!

Sure, decompress in the few weeks that immediately follow retirement - especially from a toxic workplace - but you have to have something lined up eventually. Whether it's a side hustle, a creative project, or even some easy part-time work - it has to be something other than spending all day sitting indoors watching TV or playing video games for eternity.

Malcat

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #82 on: January 14, 2019, 05:00:59 AM »

I have many friends who were able to retire early and it has not gone well. They become bored, spent more money than they should have, got divorced, became depressed, and experienced many other ills. The biggest one in my opinion is the waste of potential. The stress of work gets us out of bed in the morning, provides a purpose, community, and method of inclusion to the moving world around us.

Others who kept working in spite of accomplishing FI seem much happier to me. FI converts work into a choice and that can make all the diffrence.

I'm not surprised by this, it doesn't sound like they were tremendously happy, balanced people to begin with. However, I don't think that continuing to work is the make or break. I think for people who have already worked to find happiness, balance, and meaning in their lives that leaving work should be no big deal.

If people aren't happy with their lives while working, retiring won't make them happy, it will just take away the structure and routine of their unhappy life.

Being happy is not a default state and having a job doesn't provide or prevent happiness. It's just one of many life challenges that can contribute to or detract from happiness.

If someone is unhappy while working for many years, they are going to have a huge backlog of work to do on learning how to live a good life. If they expect leaving a job to magically make them happy, they are in for a rude awakening. Retiring can give someone the space they need to build a happy life, but it won't do the heavy lifting for them.

I'm all for continuing to work if it's truly part of what makes someone happy, but not if it's just that they haven't found any other motivation to get out of bed and engage with society. That's depressing.

Skyhigh

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #83 on: January 14, 2019, 09:11:27 AM »
My stay-at-home mother was able to create a real estate portfolio that made it so that my father could retire at 45. He worked as an aerospace engineer and his contribution helped to put men on the moon. After retirement, he did not do so well. I don't think he wanted to retire but was laid off during a slowdown. The resources that my mother created made it so that he did not have to work anymore. It took away much of his drive to get up at 4AM to fight the traffic. When his industry recovered he was asked to return but did not. Working is a major portion of one's identity. My mother was happy to spend her time gossiping, visiting with relatives, and volunteering for the church. My father, however, was cut adrift by FIRE. He wanted to go back to work but the allure of staying home won. His health and life's progression began a steady decline soon after.

In the winter of my 28th year I discovered to great horror that I had gotten myself into a position where I did not have to work anymore if I didn't wish and my net worth would continue to grow. I spent my days seasonally employed and my off time mountain biking, walking to the library, attending cross-country ski classes and other self-indulgent pursuits. I lived an a unit of a four-plex that I owned and enjoyed a minimalist lifestyle. When I did the math and realized that I could burn the remainder of my existence on frivolous pursuits I was struck with fear. The whole time I thought I was stretching my expenses until my chosen career got underway. What I had done was to create a FIRE lifestyle instead. It seemed that I just knew how to do it by watching my mother all those years.

After school, while the other kids were at baseball practice my brother and I would ride our bikes to a job site of some kind, that was being orchestrated by my mother, and we would work. We did not have to but liked the money she paid us and passively observed as she navigated the perils of property management, real estate development, and investment. Without even really trying I followed in a similar path and found myself effectively retired before I ever had a chance at living. In short order, I destroyed the sanctuary that I had created for myself and was tossed back into the stream of life. Still, over time I found my way back to the peaceful shore of financial independence. These days I am married with a lot of children. Never again will I find peace and an easy life. My wife is very capable of finding new obstacles, wants, and challenges that I must meet. I would be lying if I did not disclose that most of the time I long to return to a minimalist life. I face horrors of a different variety now; consumption, uncertainty, loss of control, and the constant need to increase production.

As a result, I work a lot. I have built a portfolio of investment real estate and a realty business that manages it all. I do not feel that FIRE is always such a good thing to one's overall life progression. Most of us need the drive that comes from the requirement to provide for one's self in order to keep growing, learning, striving, and achieving. Working full time makes the weekends special. It creates an urgency to take maximum advantage of the short time we have with others. Working puts us in sync with the rest of the world. Though I am tired, stressed, and sick of learning new things, I don't ever wish to retire again.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 09:18:57 AM by Skyhigh »

dougules

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #84 on: January 14, 2019, 11:50:55 AM »
My stay-at-home mother was able to create a real estate portfolio that made it so that my father could retire at 45. He worked as an aerospace engineer and his contribution helped to put men on the moon. After retirement, he did not do so well. I don't think he wanted to retire but was laid off during a slowdown. The resources that my mother created made it so that he did not have to work anymore. It took away much of his drive to get up at 4AM to fight the traffic. When his industry recovered he was asked to return but did not. Working is a major portion of one's identity. My mother was happy to spend her time gossiping, visiting with relatives, and volunteering for the church. My father, however, was cut adrift by FIRE. He wanted to go back to work but the allure of staying home won. His health and life's progression began a steady decline soon after.

In the winter of my 28th year I discovered to great horror that I had gotten myself into a position where I did not have to work anymore if I didn't wish and my net worth would continue to grow. I spent my days seasonally employed and my off time mountain biking, walking to the library, attending cross-country ski classes and other self-indulgent pursuits. I lived an a unit of a four-plex that I owned and enjoyed a minimalist lifestyle. When I did the math and realized that I could burn the remainder of my existence on frivolous pursuits I was struck with fear. The whole time I thought I was stretching my expenses until my chosen career got underway. What I had done was to create a FIRE lifestyle instead. It seemed that I just knew how to do it by watching my mother all those years.

After school, while the other kids were at baseball practice my brother and I would ride our bikes to a job site of some kind, that was being orchestrated by my mother, and we would work. We did not have to but liked the money she paid us and passively observed as she navigated the perils of property management, real estate development, and investment. Without even really trying I followed in a similar path and found myself effectively retired before I ever had a chance at living. In short order, I destroyed the sanctuary that I had created for myself and was tossed back into the stream of life. Still, over time I found my way back to the peaceful shore of financial independence. These days I am married with a lot of children. Never again will I find peace and an easy life. My wife is very capable of finding new obstacles, wants, and challenges that I must meet. I would be lying if I did not disclose that most of the time I long to return to a minimalist life. I face horrors of a different variety now; consumption, uncertainty, loss of control, and the constant need to increase production.

As a result, I work a lot. I have built a portfolio of investment real estate and a realty business that manages it all. I do not feel that FIRE is always such a good thing to one's overall life progression. Most of us need the drive that comes from the requirement to provide for one's self in order to keep growing, learning, striving, and achieving. Working full time makes the weekends special. It creates an urgency to take maximum advantage of the short time we have with others. Working puts us in sync with the rest of the world. Though I am tired, stressed, and sick of learning new things, I don't ever wish to retire again.

One thing I feel very strongly about is that every person is different.  I think what you said is very true for some people, some people not.  As you said your mother was perfectly fine not having that structure or that definition of her identity.   I think some people are stifled by a never ending routine.  Other people need some space and time to find a different routine that fits them better.  It really comes down to getting to know yourself and being honest with yourself about what really gives you purpose. 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 11:53:44 AM by dougules »

dougules

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #85 on: January 14, 2019, 11:59:35 AM »

I have many friends who were able to retire early and it has not gone well. They become bored, spent more money than they should have, got divorced, became depressed, and experienced many other ills. The biggest one in my opinion is the waste of potential. The stress of work gets us out of bed in the morning, provides a purpose, community, and method of inclusion to the moving world around us.

Others who kept working in spite of accomplishing FI seem much happier to me. FI converts work into a choice and that can make all the diffrence.

Aye, we humans are intelligent and require a steady stream of intellectual stimulation in order to remain satisfied. The curveballs and drama of a full time working career is one way to facilitate that, but as others have said, it is not the only way.

I believe that when you FIRE, it is important to not stop. I read it somewhere - was it in a MMM article or somewhere else? - that one way to achieve this is to play the "And then?" game. Ask yourself what you're going to do when you retire. Once you have your answer, respond with "And then?" You keep doing this until you have some solid long-term goals lined up, then you work towards them. This will provide that stimuli that we crave. Retiring early gives you the chance to do that thing you thought you never had time for while you were working. Write that novel. Learn that skill. Accomplish that task. Don't squander it - the idea is that you retire early enough to still have the energy for all that stuff!

Sure, decompress in the few weeks that immediately follow retirement - especially from a toxic workplace - but you have to have something lined up eventually. Whether it's a side hustle, a creative project, or even some easy part-time work - it has to be something other than spending all day sitting indoors watching TV or playing video games for eternity.

Why couldn't they just go back to work?

Skyhigh

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #86 on: January 14, 2019, 12:46:10 PM »

I have many friends who were able to retire early and it has not gone well. They become bored, spent more money than they should have, got divorced, became depressed, and experienced many other ills. The biggest one in my opinion is the waste of potential. The stress of work gets us out of bed in the morning, provides a purpose, community, and method of inclusion to the moving world around us.

Others who kept working in spite of accomplishing FI seem much happier to me. FI converts work into a choice and that can make all the diffrence.

Aye, we humans are intelligent and require a steady stream of intellectual stimulation in order to remain satisfied. The curveballs and drama of a full time working career is one way to facilitate that, but as others have said, it is not the only way.

I believe that when you FIRE, it is important to not stop. I read it somewhere - was it in a MMM article or somewhere else? - that one way to achieve this is to play the "And then?" game. Ask yourself what you're going to do when you retire. Once you have your answer, respond with "And then?" You keep doing this until you have some solid long-term goals lined up, then you work towards them. This will provide that stimuli that we crave. Retiring early gives you the chance to do that thing you thought you never had time for while you were working. Write that novel. Learn that skill. Accomplish that task. Don't squander it - the idea is that you retire early enough to still have the energy for all that stuff!

Sure, decompress in the few weeks that immediately follow retirement - especially from a toxic workplace - but you have to have something lined up eventually. Whether it's a side hustle, a creative project, or even some easy part-time work - it has to be something other than spending all day sitting indoors watching TV or playing video games for eternity.

Why couldn't they just go back to work?

I suppose if one worked in a box store they could just go back to work, however, satisfying career positions are more fragile.

MrOnyx

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #87 on: January 15, 2019, 01:58:04 AM »

I have many friends who were able to retire early and it has not gone well. They become bored, spent more money than they should have, got divorced, became depressed, and experienced many other ills. The biggest one in my opinion is the waste of potential. The stress of work gets us out of bed in the morning, provides a purpose, community, and method of inclusion to the moving world around us.

Others who kept working in spite of accomplishing FI seem much happier to me. FI converts work into a choice and that can make all the diffrence.

Aye, we humans are intelligent and require a steady stream of intellectual stimulation in order to remain satisfied. The curveballs and drama of a full time working career is one way to facilitate that, but as others have said, it is not the only way.

I believe that when you FIRE, it is important to not stop. I read it somewhere - was it in a MMM article or somewhere else? - that one way to achieve this is to play the "And then?" game. Ask yourself what you're going to do when you retire. Once you have your answer, respond with "And then?" You keep doing this until you have some solid long-term goals lined up, then you work towards them. This will provide that stimuli that we crave. Retiring early gives you the chance to do that thing you thought you never had time for while you were working. Write that novel. Learn that skill. Accomplish that task. Don't squander it - the idea is that you retire early enough to still have the energy for all that stuff!

Sure, decompress in the few weeks that immediately follow retirement - especially from a toxic workplace - but you have to have something lined up eventually. Whether it's a side hustle, a creative project, or even some easy part-time work - it has to be something other than spending all day sitting indoors watching TV or playing video games for eternity.

Why couldn't they just go back to work?

Having gaps in your employment does not look good on the CV. You could try to play it off as having gone freelance, or working for yourself in some other manner, but unless you can prove that with a portfolio of work, you could end up stuck where you are. This is because things change and new technology emerges. Back at uni, one of my lecturers even struggled to get a job in the field he was teaching - because he'd been "out of the industry" for too long (even though these companies would happily take on the graduates he trained!) I suppose he was considered a 'has-been', or 'out-of-touch' in some regard. These are the things you have to be careful about.

As Skyhigh said, you could take on unskilled/semi-skilled work if pay wasn't too much of an issue - and indeed these jobs may be less stressful - but you might be hard pushed to get back onto the front line of professional work.

davisgang90

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #88 on: January 15, 2019, 03:50:24 AM »
I have regrets, but not about FIRE.

I regret not discovering frugality and MMMness stuff earlier.

I would have retired about the same time (enjoyed my career mostly) but would have been in a better position financially (I still have a ridiculously good income stream from pension/VA disability) than I am.  We wasted so much money on stupid stuff and I'd love to go back and have a conversation with college-age me about it.

The FIRE-side of things is great!  I'm still finding my way in what to do with my time.  This thread has been an eye opener for the caring for parents stuff.  We moved to be close to my MIL and she is at an age where she needs help, but we've been adamant that she needs in home care to help her, not just DW and I. 

My parents are in generally good health, but half-way across the country.  I know the time is coming where I may need to help them more as well. 

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #89 on: January 15, 2019, 05:14:44 AM »
My stay-at-home mother was able to create a real estate portfolio that made it so that my father could retire at 45. He worked as an aerospace engineer and his contribution helped to put men on the moon. After retirement, he did not do so well. I don't think he wanted to retire but was laid off during a slowdown. The resources that my mother created made it so that he did not have to work anymore. It took away much of his drive to get up at 4AM to fight the traffic. When his industry recovered he was asked to return but did not. Working is a major portion of one's identity. My mother was happy to spend her time gossiping, visiting with relatives, and volunteering for the church. My father, however, was cut adrift by FIRE. He wanted to go back to work but the allure of staying home won. His health and life's progression began a steady decline soon after.

In the winter of my 28th year I discovered to great horror that I had gotten myself into a position where I did not have to work anymore if I didn't wish and my net worth would continue to grow. I spent my days seasonally employed and my off time mountain biking, walking to the library, attending cross-country ski classes and other self-indulgent pursuits. I lived an a unit of a four-plex that I owned and enjoyed a minimalist lifestyle. When I did the math and realized that I could burn the remainder of my existence on frivolous pursuits I was struck with fear. The whole time I thought I was stretching my expenses until my chosen career got underway. What I had done was to create a FIRE lifestyle instead. It seemed that I just knew how to do it by watching my mother all those years.

After school, while the other kids were at baseball practice my brother and I would ride our bikes to a job site of some kind, that was being orchestrated by my mother, and we would work. We did not have to but liked the money she paid us and passively observed as she navigated the perils of property management, real estate development, and investment. Without even really trying I followed in a similar path and found myself effectively retired before I ever had a chance at living. In short order, I destroyed the sanctuary that I had created for myself and was tossed back into the stream of life. Still, over time I found my way back to the peaceful shore of financial independence. These days I am married with a lot of children. Never again will I find peace and an easy life. My wife is very capable of finding new obstacles, wants, and challenges that I must meet. I would be lying if I did not disclose that most of the time I long to return to a minimalist life. I face horrors of a different variety now; consumption, uncertainty, loss of control, and the constant need to increase production.

As a result, I work a lot. I have built a portfolio of investment real estate and a realty business that manages it all. I do not feel that FIRE is always such a good thing to one's overall life progression. Most of us need the drive that comes from the requirement to provide for one's self in order to keep growing, learning, striving, and achieving. Working full time makes the weekends special. It creates an urgency to take maximum advantage of the short time we have with others. Working puts us in sync with the rest of the world. Though I am tired, stressed, and sick of learning new things, I don't ever wish to retire again.

Or, you know, you could put all of that energy into all of these kids you have. Just saying.

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2019, 10:58:28 AM »
Adding some comments, not as someone fully FIRE'd but sort of half-way.  Basically along the lines of Dr. Doom's post on post-fire.  The money part is the straightforward part - just keep saving.  The hard part is what to do with the time to replace the challenges that work provided.

We sold ('cashed out') of a very high COL area and moved to medium COL with more space and breathing room (less traffic, hassles, stress, etc.)  We were both working high-stress jobs (her in finance, me high tech) almost 12 hours a day with mine having 24 hour emails (200 per day average).  I left tech and am helping her with finance (home-based work) so that we both have more time off to relax and enjoy life.  Again not FIRE'd fully, but close to FI enough so that there's no need for both of us to work like crazy (retirement stashes saved, mortgage gone, education for kid saved, no debt).

Points I have noticed in 6 months after leaving tech (after a nice summer off of relaxing too):

 - as MMM stated in one of his posts, on top of staying fit physically and mentally, you need a daily or weekly stress- something to challenge/push you to learn something new or build something new.  From our hunter-gatherer side that's the stress that keeps us going and provides a sense of 'I now deserve a reward' of some sort.  (see Sebastion Junger youtube clip with Joe Rogan discussing cell phones - good points in there).

- for people from STEM and/or INTJ type personalities - a huge aspect of job satisfaction for me has come from problem-solving.  Debugging, fixing, troubleshooting etc.  Something similar is needed to replace that to feel challenged.  At my previous work this kept me going for 25 years, until the last company took over and outsourced all of it (hence me watching from sidelines dealing with 200 emails and not actually doing the problem-solving).

- keep up routines - especially exercise.  Not a regret but a comment again.  Equal parts exercise, mental exercise, some work/problem-solving and relaxing seems to fill a good day - approx. 2 hours each.  My regeret would be not having the third component provided for (yet).  Without fixing/problem-solving or providing something concrete in the form of helping the wife's business (i.e. allowing her to have time off), I feel I won't deserve any breaks.  Doesn't take much  - only 2 hours per day or so.

So I guess my main regret or comment repeats the 'you need to retire to something' point.  Again Dr. Doom has a great post on this for planning better for this.  May take time to create a plan after quitting - it's not always feasible to plan while working due to time constraints.


GB

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #91 on: January 16, 2019, 11:49:03 AM »
I genuinely feel bad for anyone who needs a job to have a reason to get up and seize the day in the morning.

This thread is very insightful though. The responses are unsurprising in some aspects, and surprising in others.

Skyhigh

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #92 on: January 16, 2019, 12:04:07 PM »


I am thankful for all that I have accomplished, however, it is sad to have left that major personal goal unfulfilled. It was my dream to spend my days in the seat until I reached the maximum age. Due to my poor career, I was lead into a FIRE lifestyle.  Now that the industry has recovered it is sad to be left behind.

It seems to me that my uselessness to other careers is what helped to remove all doubt and reservations into my path towards FIRE. If I could have gotten a job instead I would have.

Skyhigh

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #93 on: January 16, 2019, 12:07:21 PM »
My stay-at-home mother was able to create a real estate portfolio that made it so that my father could retire at 45. He worked as an aerospace engineer and his contribution helped to put men on the moon. After retirement, he did not do so well. I don't think he wanted to retire but was laid off during a slowdown. The resources that my mother created made it so that he did not have to work anymore. It took away much of his drive to get up at 4AM to fight the traffic. When his industry recovered he was asked to return but did not. Working is a major portion of one's identity. My mother was happy to spend her time gossiping, visiting with relatives, and volunteering for the church. My father, however, was cut adrift by FIRE. He wanted to go back to work but the allure of staying home won. His health and life's progression began a steady decline soon after.

In the winter of my 28th year I discovered to great horror that I had gotten myself into a position where I did not have to work anymore if I didn't wish and my net worth would continue to grow. I spent my days seasonally employed and my off time mountain biking, walking to the library, attending cross-country ski classes and other self-indulgent pursuits. I lived an a unit of a four-plex that I owned and enjoyed a minimalist lifestyle. When I did the math and realized that I could burn the remainder of my existence on frivolous pursuits I was struck with fear. The whole time I thought I was stretching my expenses until my chosen career got underway. What I had done was to create a FIRE lifestyle instead. It seemed that I just knew how to do it by watching my mother all those years.

After school, while the other kids were at baseball practice my brother and I would ride our bikes to a job site of some kind, that was being orchestrated by my mother, and we would work. We did not have to but liked the money she paid us and passively observed as she navigated the perils of property management, real estate development, and investment. Without even really trying I followed in a similar path and found myself effectively retired before I ever had a chance at living. In short order, I destroyed the sanctuary that I had created for myself and was tossed back into the stream of life. Still, over time I found my way back to the peaceful shore of financial independence. These days I am married with a lot of children. Never again will I find peace and an easy life. My wife is very capable of finding new obstacles, wants, and challenges that I must meet. I would be lying if I did not disclose that most of the time I long to return to a minimalist life. I face horrors of a different variety now; consumption, uncertainty, loss of control, and the constant need to increase production.

As a result, I work a lot. I have built a portfolio of investment real estate and a realty business that manages it all. I do not feel that FIRE is always such a good thing to one's overall life progression. Most of us need the drive that comes from the requirement to provide for one's self in order to keep growing, learning, striving, and achieving. Working full time makes the weekends special. It creates an urgency to take maximum advantage of the short time we have with others. Working puts us in sync with the rest of the world. Though I am tired, stressed, and sick of learning new things, I don't ever wish to retire again.

Or, you know, you could put all of that energy into all of these kids you have. Just saying.

We spend a lot of time with the kids. As a result of FIRE I am available for many different kid activities. It is a blessing but does not help with my aspirations.

Villanelle

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #94 on: January 17, 2019, 07:53:50 AM »
Interesting thread.  I really like the idea of saying that we are starting out own consulting business, or something along those lines.  Don't know if DH would be on board with lying to his family, but it truly seems like the best plan.  And if there is *any* aspect of consulting, it would also be the truth, even if it's still a bit misleading.

Sure, we could also just set a boundary and tell anyone who approached it to pound sand, but that can be very difficult, especially for certain personality types and especially with family.  And it can also damage family relationships.  I have no moral qualms at all about fibbing to someone for the sake of peace, my own comfort, and fending off the very likely possibility that they will try to take advantage and intentionally put us in uncomfortable situations and use guilt to manipulate.  YMMV. 

Cassie

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Re: Any regrets after fire?
« Reply #95 on: January 18, 2019, 11:56:41 AM »
I continue to work p.t. at 64 because I really enjoy it and can do it from anywhere with internet so it doesnít stop me from traveling.