Author Topic: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?  (Read 26087 times)

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2021, 06:57:18 AM »
From what I did read, it seems Slow Road wants to write books but has never actually written one.

The only way to be a writer is to write. Your biggest problem, from where I sit, is that you don't know that you enjoy writing. You just think you would. 

Advice on getting started? Just write, baby. I blogged while I was working, here and on my personal website. I wrote shorter nonfiction stories (again, here and on my own website). Eventually I wrote a book. Then another, and another, and another.

Hi @nippycrisp. Thanks for this. And, of course, along with many others on this thread, you're right. Last week I had pretty much the same discussion with a friend of mine. On the back of that, I've decided not to bother with a blog and just write. And that's precisely what I've started to do, regardless of the shitty pressures of work. Early mornings work best for me.

I've also signed up for NaNoWriMo this November, and booking leave to give it a good go.

Generally I'm happier now I've started, and I'll continue all the time I enjoy it.

btw I totally concur with your analogy - to the extent I've stopped trying to second guess my future self, and slacked off the bucket list.

Nick_Miller

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2021, 08:49:37 AM »
From what I did read, it seems Slow Road wants to write books but has never actually written one.

The only way to be a writer is to write. Your biggest problem, from where I sit, is that you don't know that you enjoy writing. You just think you would. 

Advice on getting started? Just write, baby. I blogged while I was working, here and on my personal website. I wrote shorter nonfiction stories (again, here and on my own website). Eventually I wrote a book. Then another, and another, and another.

Hi @nippycrisp. Thanks for this. And, of course, along with many others on this thread, you're right. Last week I had pretty much the same discussion with a friend of mine. On the back of that, I've decided not to bother with a blog and just write. And that's precisely what I've started to do, regardless of the shitty pressures of work. Early mornings work best for me.

I've also signed up for NaNoWriMo this November, and booking leave to give it a good go.

Generally I'm happier now I've started, and I'll continue all the time I enjoy it.

btw I totally concur with your analogy - to the extent I've stopped trying to second guess my future self, and slacked off the bucket list.

I hope you enjoy NaNo this year. Last year sucked with everyone trapped at home, but this year we should be able to huddle in cafes and coffee shops like usual.

And if I could offer one tiny piece of advice (it's worth what it costs), try your best to not get frustrated when 'real life' pulls you away from your writing. You're still in a busy season of life, so try not to compare your progress with that of people whose schedules may allow for more writing time.

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2021, 02:31:28 PM »
And if I could offer one tiny piece of advice (it's worth what it costs), try your best to not get frustrated when 'real life' pulls you away from your writing. You're still in a busy season of life, so try not to compare your progress with that of people whose schedules may allow for more writing time.
Thanks, I’ll do my best to remember that. It gets easier to make fewer comparisons as I get older!

Vashy

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2021, 05:13:44 AM »
Joining the fun, even though I'm still building to FI/RE. I write in a niche of fiction and am making consistent money at it - my books have been translated in German, French, Italian, and Hungarian, but the overall income is really not enough to live on (yet). I'm in a high-stress job that's draining and is also about word-wrangling, so many evenings I can't manage anything - writing for me takes emotional energy and the day job leaves me pretty "flat". Sadly, I also needed most of the weekend then to recover, so I didn't write/publish very much since I've started at the current employer.

THAT SAID, the pandemic has really helped revive my mojo, and I'm 85% into a new novel, hoping to finish by the end of the month.

Regarding courses, I find Writing Mastery by Jessica Brody very good value for fiction/genre writers: https://learn.jessicabrody.com/

Also, Dave Farland's APEX Writers: https://www.apex-writers.com/ (this crowd seems generally more advanced and skewed towards fantasy/sci-fi, but Dave's courses are fantastic).

For some individual elements, I recommend the short and cheap and very good courses offered by Margie Lawson under her umbrella. I've learned lots.

I also think "slow and steady winds the race" - certainly while you have so many other commitments. 500 words a day will give you a novel (60,000-90,000 words) in 3-5 months. it's about a page of fiction, and many emails are longer than that, so I'd try to build to that habit consistently. I know people who've written books during their lunch breaks or on the train. Others dictate while taking the dog out (Dragon Naturally Speaking seems popular, though Apple products apparently have very good speech recognition).

There are TONS of writing group on the internet/Facebook etc, so I find regularly interacting with other writers reminds me I'm a writer too, and gets me excited about stories and fictional people and concepts while I'm enduring an environment that couldn't be less creative if it tried. Building an identity of "yes, I'm a writer!" and "I write because I'm a writer" or "I write, therefore I'm a writer!" has been a game-changer for friends of mine struggling with "I'm X years old, isn't it too late to start?". It's never too late and I find writing is one of the most stimulating mental activities I can think of.

Happy to discuss anything either here or privately. Good luck!

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2021, 10:18:44 PM »
I make six figures as an author. I've actually got the opposite problem. I love writing but instead of a retirement side hustle it's become an extremely demanding full time job. As others have said, what matters is what you want this next stage writing career to be. Want your book on bookstore shelves? That's a very difficult road these days, you likely won't make much and you'll need an agent, but you do get all the prestige that goes along with traditional publishing, being reviewed and so on. If you're like me and just want the cash, then self-publishing is fun, exciting and full of potential. I know lots of people earning seven figures and they work extremely hard. I write popular genre fiction and have built a fan base over time. I've always made my living as a writer, btw, so my learning curve wasn't that steep. If you only want to write for fun, then write your novel or non fiction project, hire a decent editor, hire a cover artist and someone to format the book for you and put it up yourself on Amazon, iBooks, Kobo etc. Then you're published and anyone with an internet connection can buy and read your work. You might not make any money but you'll have a book that you wrote yourself available for anyone to read. If you do want to make money -- and it's really exciting when you start making serious coin from stories you made up in your head -- then you have to get businesslike. My time is about 25% writing (the part I love) and 75% admin and marketing which I find soul-sucking. I'm working on finding a balance so I can spend fewer hours working and give myself more free time. Anyway, just wanted to pop in to say Go For It. You've got nothing to lose and you may find an exciting new career. Resources I recommend are Self-Publishing Formula podcast (he has expensive courses to sell but the basic podcast is great). Joanna Penn has a good website and check out 20 books to 50K on Facebook. There are some total slimeballs in there but lots of genuinely successful authors share what they know and even more fun, share their numbers and how they did it. Lots of beginners there, too. It's a good mix. Good luck.

4tify

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2021, 04:44:55 PM »
Yeah, ok. I didn't read the entire thread, because it seemed much of it sprawled into publishing and promotions and career questions, which is like discussing the frosting for a cake that doesn't yet exist.

From what I did read, it seems Slow Road wants to write books but has never actually written one. I hear this pretty often, maybe dozens of times. So when I tell you that no one who's asked me how to start writing has never actually written that book they have an idea for, understand that I have a decent sample size to work from.

For your situation as a late-stage FIRE-seeker, I'm going to use an analogy that tries to make a point. In college, there would be Friday nights where I  would be up in my dorm room studying for a biochemistry test. It was not enjoyable, as you can imagine. I could hear people out having fun, and I would fantasize about all the neat stuff I could be doing when this damn test was over and done with. Invariably though, the test would come and go, and afterwards I never did any of that stuff I dreamed of doing.

The same thing happened with FIRE for me. I had these dreams about what I would be doing "after". Then it happened, and what emerged wasn't quite what I'd imagined. I played less golf, not more, and I got into woodworking, which I'd never even thought about. But writing made the cut, because I was already a writer. I'd written books before I retired. I had specific ideas. most importantly, I was excited about doing.

The only way to be a writer is to write. Your biggest problem, from where I sit, is that you don't know that you enjoy writing. You just think you would. 

That's not a knock. I suspect you enjoy reading as well, but the difference between reading and writing is like enjoying watching a movie and working on a movie. Related, kinda, but far from identical.

Advice on getting started? Just write, baby. I blogged while I was working, here and on my personal website. I wrote shorter nonfiction stories (again, here and on my own website). Eventually I wrote a book. Then another, and another, and another.

For a full book, the easiest most effective way I know is to write a minimum number of words every day. Commit to writing 500 or 1,000 words a day minimum, no matter what. Even if it's just crap filler that you'll have to fix later, put down the words. Do that for three to six months, and you should have enough verbiage for a rough draft of a novel. Easy to say, not so easy to do.

Good luck, whatever path you wind up taking.   

This is advice worth thinking about IMO. I just listened to this excellent podcast with Joyce Carol Oates who LOVES to write. She also talks about guarding the space necessary to work creatively, which is essential and not easy with kids (though plenty of artists manage that as well). https://tim.blog/2021/02/10/joyce-carol-oates/

Also, if you haven't read The War of Art by Steven Pressfield that could be helpful. The Artist's Way has also kickstarted a lot of hopeful artists to take action.

Good luck!

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2021, 08:01:07 PM »
I make six figures as an author. I've actually got the opposite problem. I love writing but instead of a retirement side hustle it's become an extremely demanding full time job. As others have said, what matters is what you want this next stage writing career to be. Want your book on bookstore shelves? That's a very difficult road these days, you likely won't make much and you'll need an agent, but you do get all the prestige that goes along with traditional publishing, being reviewed and so on. If you're like me and just want the cash, then self-publishing is fun, exciting and full of potential. I know lots of people earning seven figures and they work extremely hard. I write popular genre fiction and have built a fan base over time. I've always made my living as a writer, btw, so my learning curve wasn't that steep. If you only want to write for fun, then write your novel or non fiction project, hire a decent editor, hire a cover artist and someone to format the book for you and put it up yourself on Amazon, iBooks, Kobo etc. Then you're published and anyone with an internet connection can buy and read your work. You might not make any money but you'll have a book that you wrote yourself available for anyone to read. If you do want to make money -- and it's really exciting when you start making serious coin from stories you made up in your head -- then you have to get businesslike. My time is about 25% writing (the part I love) and 75% admin and marketing which I find soul-sucking. I'm working on finding a balance so I can spend fewer hours working and give myself more free time. Anyway, just wanted to pop in to say Go For It. You've got nothing to lose and you may find an exciting new career. Resources I recommend are Self-Publishing Formula podcast (he has expensive courses to sell but the basic podcast is great). Joanna Penn has a good website and check out 20 books to 50K on Facebook. There are some total slimeballs in there but lots of genuinely successful authors share what they know and even more fun, share their numbers and how they did it. Lots of beginners there, too. It's a good mix. Good luck.

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J.R. Ewing

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2021, 09:58:31 AM »
Great thread.

I'm creeping up on RE and I have aspirations of writing historical fiction.  I've dabbled some in writing already, but I have yet to publish.  I'm going into it with the knowledge that I'll never likely make it big.  I would simply like to write a high quality series on a fascinating, but neglected period of history that fans of the genre will enjoy. 

I appreciate the great advice and links in the thread.  Moving closer to this goal is what's kept me focused and motivated on the FIRE path. 

asauer

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2021, 08:42:30 AM »
Great thread.

I'm creeping up on RE and I have aspirations of writing historical fiction.  I've dabbled some in writing already, but I have yet to publish.  I'm going into it with the knowledge that I'll never likely make it big.  I would simply like to write a high quality series on a fascinating, but neglected period of history that fans of the genre will enjoy. 

I appreciate the great advice and links in the thread.  Moving closer to this goal is what's kept me focused and motivated on the FIRE path.

Historical fiction is on the rise so depending on your timeline, you might be able to make some good money if you build a decent author platform.  I write mystery but my historical series is doing much better than my other one.

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2021, 11:33:53 AM »
Me again. Thanks everyone for contributing to this thread, I’ve picked up some interesting points.

I just started writing (and spent less time on this forum). I also started reading different things, including a novel written by an old friend. And it was blooming excellent! It made me think more deeply about what I enjoy reading, and what I have started to enjoy writing. A completely different genre to what I was expecting!

Here comes a bit more fantasy and a bit less travel writing, and to hell with whether it’s something that sells by the bucketload - I don’t care!

I’m beginning to get to know what I like, and I like what I know - and it’s evolved since the the start of this thread. Who’d have thought?

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2021, 01:16:10 PM »
I make six figures as an author. I've actually got the opposite problem. I love writing but instead of a retirement side hustle it's become an extremely demanding full time job. As others have said, what matters is what you want this next stage writing career to be. Want your book on bookstore shelves? That's a very difficult road these days, you likely won't make much and you'll need an agent, but you do get all the prestige that goes along with traditional publishing, being reviewed and so on. If you're like me and just want the cash, then self-publishing is fun, exciting and full of potential. I know lots of people earning seven figures and they work extremely hard. I write popular genre fiction and have built a fan base over time. I've always made my living as a writer, btw, so my learning curve wasn't that steep. If you only want to write for fun, then write your novel or non fiction project, hire a decent editor, hire a cover artist and someone to format the book for you and put it up yourself on Amazon, iBooks, Kobo etc. Then you're published and anyone with an internet connection can buy and read your work. You might not make any money but you'll have a book that you wrote yourself available for anyone to read. If you do want to make money -- and it's really exciting when you start making serious coin from stories you made up in your head -- then you have to get businesslike. My time is about 25% writing (the part I love) and 75% admin and marketing which I find soul-sucking. I'm working on finding a balance so I can spend fewer hours working and give myself more free time. Anyway, just wanted to pop in to say Go For It. You've got nothing to lose and you may find an exciting new career. Resources I recommend are Self-Publishing Formula podcast (he has expensive courses to sell but the basic podcast is great). Joanna Penn has a good website and check out 20 books to 50K on Facebook. There are some total slimeballs in there but lots of genuinely successful authors share what they know and even more fun, share their numbers and how they did it. Lots of beginners there, too. It's a good mix. Good luck.

Another six-figure-a-year author here. I would have pretty much written this post myself, so I'll just + 1 MenopauseMustache.

LouLou

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2021, 08:06:19 AM »
Such a great thread! Thank you for all the great resources everyone.

If I had a trust fund, fiction writing would have been my first career. I did not, so I became a lawyer instead. I like practicing law just fine, and it was a good way to start making six figures in my twenties. Luckily, I found MMM when I started out, so I never put on the golden handcuffs. I am going to pull the trigger on a sabbatical year soon to determine whether I should FIRE completely or continue practicing law. My plan for the sabbatical year was to write fiction, so this thread is great.

DonutBeFrupid

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2021, 10:18:24 AM »
Loved this thread,  y'all are truly inspiring. I was writing pretty consistently a few months ago when I had a job and was able to detach from said job emotionally. As soon as I FIRE'd, my friend came to me with a great startup idea (and I feel like I had some old baggage coaxing me into taking it) so I jumped in the deep end to work on the startup. Funny enough, in total hours spent, I'm probably working *less* than I did when I had a full time job. Problem is, I feel like I can never disconnect from it and I'm starting to build a weird resentment towards having to work instead of write. I also just don't feel like it's *okay* for me to write when there is so much work to do ...

This thread is really convincing me to just keep writing, I need something to help me get out of this random hole I seem to have dug myself into right after FIRE'ing. Just wanted to say thanks.

alienbogey

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2021, 05:44:00 PM »
I don't have anything with regard to the excellent tips already posted but perhaps my own experience will be worth reading to some.

I've always enjoyed writing and took creative writing through my school years.  My profession has nothing to do with writing but occasionally the muse struck and I wrote a number of short stories (that I showed to very few people) and had a few magazine articles published.  As many do, I always wanted to write a novel some day.  Finally came the realization that I needed to actually do it or wait for the next lifetime.

I decided that I wanted the $$ to go along with the fame and started a thriller as I thought that genre had the most potential for commercial success.  I kept it a secret until about 1/3 through the first draft when I showed it to my wife and asked for her honest opinion.  She told me it sucked.  She was right.

Inflection point:  Try again or quit?  Answer:  Try again, but redefine goals before doing so.

The new goal became to simply write the best novel I could.  When I was done, and knew I couldn't possibly make it any better than it was, then I would do my best to coldly assess whether it was good enough to seek publication.  Potential $$ and/or prestige and/or fame were not part of the new equation.

Next, I figured that the best way to find and keep the motivation to see the project through would be to write a novel that I would enjoy reading myself.  Historical fiction is my favorite genre and I like adventure, so I picked a colorful time and place in American history (1848 along the Mississippi River), spun up a fun outline, and dove in.

I set a goal of one year to completion because I didn't want to be one of those middle-aged amateur aspiring novelists who drag things along for 2 or 3 years.  I finished the first draft in 14 months, which I didn't think was too bad, and figured on a few months of revisions.  I continued to work on it steadily, with only a few writing droughts, and completed the novel, start to finish, in five years.

Yeah.

I numbered my revisions like software, with an new integer representing a complete beginning to end rewrite, and decimals to indicate significant but smaller revisions.  At version 7.5 or so I realized that the book needed to be better, and could be better, but I could no longer see how to do it.  I hired the best editor I could find, and it was like receiving a 1 on 1 post graduate course in novel writing.  Worth every last expensive dollar.

My goal was to write the best damn book I could, and at version 12.7 I knew I had done it.  Yes, I wrote and re-wrote it from beginning to end twelve times and revised it many more times than that.

As a lifetime voracious reader and dilettante writer I thought I had a good idea of the work it would take to write a novel. It turns out I had no f'ing clue.  It was one of the hardest and most fun and most satisfying challenges of my life and, no false modesty here, I've met some big challenges before.

Which leads me to what I wish to contribute to anyone thinking of writing a book or books:  The single biggest factor is motivation.  Without serious motivation, sustained through the ups and downs, it won't get started or it won't get finished or it won't get revised to the point of being good.  Motivation.

For me, sustaining motivation came when I redefined my goals and began to write a story that I enjoyed even as it flowed out of my brain.

Once I was done I decided it was good enough for the world to see and, in a business decision, self-published.  It has achieved only modest success despite good reviews.  My daughter, who is an LA actress, is a champion of the book and swears she's going to see it made into a movie some day. 

Whether that happens doesn't matter, because I wrote the best damn novel I could.  Mission accomplished.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 05:49:52 PM by alienbogey »

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2021, 01:57:43 PM »
te a story that I enjoyed even as it flowed out of my
Whether that happens doesn't matter, because I wrote the best damn novel I could.  Mission accomplished.

Thank you for your insights, and congratulations on achieving this. Nothing worth doing is easy, I guess.

I can intellectually understand your sentiment that having the right motivation to see it through to whatever version it needs to be in order to be able to be proud of your creation; of course, without actually having been through that process, I can’t really empathise. What I can do is perhaps to be clear about why I want to write - perhaps even write it down, shock horror - so I can remind myself in the difficult moments (or months).

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2021, 06:22:35 AM »
Whether that happens doesn't matter, because I wrote the best damn novel I could.  Mission accomplished.

This really resonates with me, which is why (for now) I'm NOT writing.  Like many of y'all, I wrote a lot as a young person, took a bunch of creative writing classes, etc.  I have a novel that I've been chewing on for like 20 years (I haven't actually TOUCHED it for like 15).  I realized that, even though I really wanted to be a writer, it didn't make me happy.  I never felt like anything was good enough.  Interestingly (to me) I also write music.  Because I don't think I'm a good musician, writing music, playing with bands, getting paid, etc. was all just super fun.  Whereas, because I think I'm a good writer, writing has almost always been a grind.  I think, some day, I might evolve to a place where that's no longer true, but I'm not going to force it.

In addition, I realize I have a real fundamental problem with my approach to writing.  If I'm honest, I write because I want to Make A Difference (caps intentional).  My novel idea is a very cool (IMHO) idea for a scifi story with strong environmental messages.  What I've realized, though, is that this is a terrible motivation to write a book.  I don't think it's a good idea to approach your audience from the POV of knowing better than them and trying to change their minds.  It feels incredibly arrogant and doomed to failure and frustration.  I read something recently where an author (sorry, forget who) was describing how they approached their novels like video games, where there would be little cool rewards for the reader every few pages.  That sounds like a much better approach.

I do think it's possible that, someday, if I'm able to let go of both the perfectionism and the agenda, I might just try to right the good story that I have in mind.  If I'm not able to let go of those things, though, it would be a very unpleasant experience.

I also appreciate all the talk about marketing.  I have no stomach for that, so I appreciate the honesty.  Thanks!

Linea_Norway

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #66 on: July 23, 2021, 08:17:04 AM »
Whether that happens doesn't matter, because I wrote the best damn novel I could.  Mission accomplished.

This really resonates with me, which is why (for now) I'm NOT writing.  Like many of y'all, I wrote a lot as a young person, took a bunch of creative writing classes, etc.  I have a novel that I've been chewing on for like 20 years (I haven't actually TOUCHED it for like 15).  I realized that, even though I really wanted to be a writer, it didn't make me happy.  I never felt like anything was good enough.  Interestingly (to me) I also write music.  Because I don't think I'm a good musician, writing music, playing with bands, getting paid, etc. was all just super fun.  Whereas, because I think I'm a good writer, writing has almost always been a grind.  I think, some day, I might evolve to a place where that's no longer true, but I'm not going to force it.

In addition, I realize I have a real fundamental problem with my approach to writing.  If I'm honest, I write because I want to Make A Difference (caps intentional).  My novel idea is a very cool (IMHO) idea for a scifi story with strong environmental messages.  What I've realized, though, is that this is a terrible motivation to write a book.  I don't think it's a good idea to approach your audience from the POV of knowing better than them and trying to change their minds.  It feels incredibly arrogant and doomed to failure and frustration.  I read something recently where an author (sorry, forget who) was describing how they approached their novels like video games, where there would be little cool rewards for the reader every few pages.  That sounds like a much better approach.

I do think it's possible that, someday, if I'm able to let go of both the perfectionism and the agenda, I might just try to right the good story that I have in mind.  If I'm not able to let go of those things, though, it would be a very unpleasant experience.

I also appreciate all the talk about marketing.  I have no stomach for that, so I appreciate the honesty.  Thanks!

I read several good (Norwegian) novels with a clear environmental message. I think a lot of people like these books for their message. Both cases are a good story in the setting of a possible future scenario with climate problems. Your story could work just as well. I am pretty sure you won't change the minds of the non-believers, because they won't buy your book. But maybe you could get some fame and reach some more people to take it seriously.

The good climate novels that I mean are:

- The History of Bees by Maja Lunde
She wrote several other climate novels, amongst others one about refuges in Southern Europe, escaping from the lack of water, in French the title is Bleue. And another novel about a few survivers living on Norwegian farms with very unpredictable weather and how they struggle with people not meaning well and their local power station failing.

- Mengele Zoo by Gert Nygårdshaug, plus the rest of this series of books. The serie is about a South American indigenous person being "forced" by circumstances to take revenge on the polluters. A very good story.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 12:39:52 AM by Linea_Norway »

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2021, 04:21:58 PM »
This is such a wholesome thread. :) I loved all the links, and will definitely listen to the podcast with Joyce Carol Oates tonight.

I went fully lean-FIRE almost 6 months ago, and while it's been a lot of fun, I have a very competitive personality, and I tend to get tired of passive hobbies like reading, gaming, watching movies, etc. (They're still fun, but they feel like junk food - they don't fully meet my needs.)

Like so many other people, I have an unfinished novel (a snarky book about time travelers), but I also have a lot of experience with writing fairly frequently. During the early stages of the pandemic, I blogged daily for 406 consecutive days (alas, my "Plague Diaries" is ~230K words, so probably too long to find a publisher hahaha) until I got the 2nd shot of Pfizer and thus ended my own personal pandemic. These days, I allocate an entire day (Friday = "write day" ;) ) to come up with 3 new posts for my personal finance blog.

I did the pandemic blogging just so I wouldn't go insane. I'm doing the finance blogging because I want to share my message with the world (as a former tech employee and a nomad, I feel like my angle is a bit different than most), and I'm curious if I can eventually turn it into a published book, once I reach 100 posts or so. (9 down, 91 to go, wooo! :P )

Motivation is the key issue, I think: what do I actually want, and why do I want it? A few years ago, I'd made it ~30,000 words into my novel, but mostly by forcing myself to write a few hundred words per day. There was no joy in it. I wonder if I can realign my priorities now (daily writing = making new change in the world) and hold that image of a real published book in my mind in order to motivate myself. :) I do have a few relatively short non-fiction books published on Kindle, but anyone can do that if they have a Word file with their scribbles and a basic cover image.

Huge thanks to everyone who posted in this thread: I just might resume writing because of all y'all!

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2021, 08:50:04 AM »
PTF

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2021, 11:00:54 AM »

StarBright

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2021, 11:25:12 AM »
I was reading something last night that indicated that only 20% of fiction is read and purchased by men. I was just curious if the male writers on this thread are also big fiction readers? or if they just want to write?

I ask because my Dad mentioned wanting to write a book, but hasn't read anything other than the occasional Hemingway short story in more than a decade. So I thought that statement was pretty wild! And then I went through my husband's reading list for the year and it came right in at 20% fiction - so I found that intriguing.

I consider myself a decent reader, but I probably read between 70-100 books in a year, and weekly/daily longform and regular journalism. But my dad also considers himself a "big" reader and he might read 1-2 books a year. I am intrigued by what we consider to be "reader" and what that might have to do with a desire to write.   
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 06:02:53 PM by StarBright »

Fru-Gal

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2021, 12:48:23 PM »
Novelists (wannabe, self-published ... or best-selling) who don't read are common. But annoying.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2021, 01:18:41 PM »
I was reading something last night that indicated that only 20% of fiction is read and purchased by men. I was just curious if the male writers on this thread are also big fiction readers? or if they just want to write?

I ask because my Dad mentioned wanting to write a book, but hasn't ready anything other than the occasional Hemingway short story in more than a decade. So I thought that statement was pretty wild! And then I went through my husband's reading list for the year and it came right in at 20% fiction - so I found that intriguing.

I consider myself a decent reader, but I probably read between 70-100 books in a year, and weekly/daily longform and regular journalism. But my dad also considers himself a "big" reader and he might read 1-2 books a year. I am intrigued by what we consider to be "reader" and what that might have to do with a desire to write.

Yup I've seen the same articles about men reading little fiction (oh my dad reads soooooo many biographies). Very few of my male friends read fiction, with the exception of the guys in my writing group. Our local writing community is dominated (at the very top) by some middle-aged (white) guys in their 50s and 60s who run small presses, etc., but after that, it's like 80% female.

Do I read? Yeah. By that, I mean I read maybe a dozen novels a year, plus several graphic novels. I genre-hop a LOT, which I enjoy, but I realize it's preventing me from focusing on a genre and trying to crush it, writing-wise. But damnit I enjoy all sorts of stories, from sci fi to thrillers to fantasy to some of my wife's romantic comedies. I know tons of readers prefer to just read "the same thing, but different" over and over and over again so I need to change my mindset.

Why don't I read more? Two honest answers: 1) Streaming and 2) Using my limited free time to write. I've already given up watching most sports, and I removed social media from my phone, now it just comes down to watching less tv.

Why do I write?

1) I love sharing the stories in my head, and writing a book is the most realistic, low-cost option out there for doing that. Would I much prefer producing movies or writing tv comedies? Sure!! (maybe that makes me different than other authors). But those are not realistic options, so I write books.

2) It uses both sides of my brain, which I find satisfying. There's a lot of structural/analytical stuff from outlining/story structure (not to mention the business side of things) woven in with the prose/storytelling.

3) I am putting something "out there" into the world. I mean, there's a possibility my books will be available for people to purchase and read 100 years from now. I mean, no one knows what publishing will look like in a century, but you get my point. To "build" something from the thoughts in your head and offer it as a product that billions of people will be able to purchase or read is just amazing when you think about it.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 01:23:36 PM by Nick_Miller »

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2021, 01:29:56 PM »
I was reading something last night that indicated that only 20% of fiction is read and purchased by men. I was just curious if the male writers on this thread are also big fiction readers? or if they just want to write?

I ask because my Dad mentioned wanting to write a book, but hasn't ready anything other than the occasional Hemingway short story in more than a decade. So I thought that statement was pretty wild! And then I went through my husband's reading list for the year and it came right in at 20% fiction - so I found that intriguing.

I consider myself a decent reader, but I probably read between 70-100 books in a year, and weekly/daily longform and regular journalism. But my dad also considers himself a "big" reader and he might read 1-2 books a year. I am intrigued by what we consider to be "reader" and what that might have to do with a desire to write.

I'm male. I read about 40-50 books a year outside of work and consider myself a "reader". I don't know any men in real life that read as much as me, and probably 3-5 women who read as much or more.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2021, 01:44:17 PM »
IMHO the sweet spot is reading enough to be inspired but not enough to lead to analysis paralysis or a side quest into literary criticism (unless you truly enjoy that). But reading a lot is by no means necessary to be a storyteller, just as having good grammar and spelling is not unless you're a copyeditor.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2021, 05:56:21 PM »
thanks guys! I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

IMHO the sweet spot is reading enough to be inspired but not enough to lead to analysis paralysis or a side quest into literary criticism (unless you truly enjoy that). But reading a lot is by no means necessary to be a storyteller, just as having good grammar and spelling is not unless you're a copyeditor.

I am probably a too much and analysis paralysis girl. The only reason I started writing again was that I have stories I want to read that no one seems to be writing. But the more I read, the more I also become convinced that I suck at fiction :)

My husband just whispers "Shitty first draft! Keep going." He is absolutely into the idea of us sitting and writing our books together. It might be the thing that convinces him that FIRE is a good idea!

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2021, 06:44:00 PM »
Just remember, y'all: Twilight (an unintentionally hilarious book with elementary school level of reading comprehension) became a runaway bestseller and spawned a fanfic that later got repackaged as "50 Shades of Grey" (and was equally linguistically unimaginative). If that garbage got published, that means you can't give up.

You owe it to the world. :)

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2021, 04:49:00 AM »
I was reading something last night that indicated that only 20% of fiction is read and purchased by men. I was just curious if the male writers on this thread are also big fiction readers? or if they just want to write?

I ask because my Dad mentioned wanting to write a book, but hasn't ready anything other than the occasional Hemingway short story in more than a decade. So I thought that statement was pretty wild! And then I went through my husband's reading list for the year and it came right in at 20% fiction - so I found that intriguing.

I consider myself a decent reader, but I probably read between 70-100 books in a year, and weekly/daily longform and regular journalism. But my dad also considers himself a "big" reader and he might read 1-2 books a year. I am intrigued by what we consider to be "reader" and what that might have to do with a desire to write.

I'm male. I read about 40-50 books a year outside of work and consider myself a "reader". I don't know any men in real life that read as much as me, and probably 3-5 women who read as much or more.

I'm female and have totally lost track of how many books I read and listen to, but at least 100 a year, but I don't generally read fiction.

I come from a family of writers, all heavy readers, and generally only the men read some fiction, sci fi stuff. My mom reads a lot of historical fiction. But overall, we're mostly a non fiction family.

Watchmaker

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2021, 07:29:42 AM »
I'm male. I read about 40-50 books a year outside of work and consider myself a "reader". I don't know any men in real life that read as much as me, and probably 3-5 women who read as much or more.

I'm female and have totally lost track of how many books I read and listen to, but at least 100 a year, but I don't generally read fiction.

I come from a family of writers, all heavy readers, and generally only the men read some fiction, sci fi stuff. My mom reads a lot of historical fiction. But overall, we're mostly a non fiction family.

I should add to my comment that 95% of those 40-50 books are fiction. Non-fiction I generally read shorter form stuff.

But I spend about 4 hours a day reading non-fiction for work.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2021, 07:36:58 AM »
This is a tangent, but considering this is a thread of writers, I hope it's an interesting one.

What does the word 'read' mean to you? Why do you think so many view 'reading' a 'book' (we'll get to what a 'book' is in a sec!) as a more sophisticated activity as opposed to other ways of consuming media, like listening to radio, watching streamed video content, going to movies, etc.? Does it really matter how a person enjoys a story?

Case in point: If a parent is reading a book to their child, is the child 'reading' the book? Is a sight-impaired person listening to an audiobook 'reading'? Does 'read' require eyes viewing/decoding words, or does it mean more than that, especially in the modern era? Is 'reading' equivalent to 'listening?'

I used to have a pretty limited view of reading: eyeballs on words. But I've shifted to a much broader mindset. I think 'read' can be synonymous with 'listen.' I think the key element of 'reading' for me is the pondering, analyzing, considering a piece of content. So basically yeah, I think a person who listens to an audiobook can honestly say "I read Book X," although I think, again, that the mental exercises I mentioned are part of the recipe too. But then I struggle with where the boundaries are. I wouldn't say someone is 'reading' as they binge the newest season of their favorite show, would I?

If a person watches a Netflix series and analyzes the hell out of it (I am so guilty of this, ask my wife) is that somehow inferior to reading the same story and performing the same analysis?

I know as a parent, I've pushed my kiddos to 'read books' and I know a big part of that is strengthening their decoding skills because yes life still expects eyeballs on words, at least for now, but do we as parents overemphasize how reading stimulates thinking as opposed to other ways of consuming content?

Oh, and what makes something a 'book' anyway? Is an audiobook a 'book' in your view? What about a text game where you read and make choices? (tons of them out there). What about a podcast? How is that different really than an audiobook? Can something with no written transcript be a book? What about an old timey serial on radio? Is a hardbound picture book a 'book' just because its...uh...bound? What if it has no words? Still a 'book' somehow? It just seems that clinging to old-fashioned concepts like "binding" and "a physical copy" don't really make sense as to deciding what is and isn't a 'book.'

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 07:41:57 AM by Nick_Miller »

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2021, 08:17:20 AM »
I'm completely fine with someone saying they 'read' a book as shorthand for listening to the audiobook. There is, of course, a difference in how you brain engages with the material between audio and print, but that will also vary from person to person and I don't think you could ever declare one way to be universally superior.

I don't consider tv (or any other form of media) to be less than books. I do think there are some things books do better than other other media, but I also believe the reverse. Different media can be the best choice for different stories.

I do think books can do certain important things particularly well: offering complete immersion, helping build concentration and imagination, and aiding in theory of mind development.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2021, 08:56:11 AM »
Our brain does different things when we read rather than watch and when it comes to the brain function occurring during those activities: TV is to Candy as Reading is to Apples. From a "good for you" perspective, reading the book is better for you than watching the movie.

So when it comes to kids - from everything I've read, it seems like reading is pretty darn important (beyond decoding, but also for building neural pathways, and empathy, and prefrontal cortex formation and and and) and watching TV isn't great for them.

That said, I agree with Watchmaker that TV and film aren't less than. But I don't think they "count" as reading, even if you engage with them in a critical way.

I love my favorite TV shows as much I love my favorite reading experiences, and have analyzed them similarly (the costumes alone in Mad Men . . .) but they aren't the same.

On a fiction vs non-fiction note I noticed something really interesting with my son this week. He was reading a historic fiction book and was having a really hard time with it emotionally. I was surprised because he had also just finished a non-fiction book about the same period and it didn't seem to affect him at all. The fiction was 100% doing something with empathy and emotion that the non fiction didn't - I think it is good for him!

He has to read 30 books this year and there is a prescribed number of each genre that he has to read. At first I was annoyed because all reading is good reading. But I've come to appreciate it as he works his way through various books.

 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 10:18:03 AM by StarBright »

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2021, 10:09:36 AM »
Is a [ ... ] person listening to an audiobook 'reading'?

I've always thought that the discrimination against audiobooks being "real" reading is just, well, discrimination. I don't see any difference, because we are processing the same words as in the book.

Part of the "it doesn't count because you didn't do it with your eyes" thing might be because in the past, a lot of books "on tape" were abridged. That is basically no longer the case. (Chalk up another boon of cheap data storage and production, and the media needed to distribute it.)

I may be biased because I complete more than 100 non-fic books per year (basically no fiction) and a fair number are via audio. (I don't count the ones I don't finish because I've deemed them uninteresting, badly written, or otherwise not worth the trouble, which easily accounts for another 25-50.)

If I think about my experience of the information, I don't feel there's much difference between how I "hold" it in my mind between the two modalities. I still get a sense of overall structure and extract a similar level and quality of info and details.

A plus with audio is multitasking during household chores, making art, going on walks, etc.

A minus is that taking notes and marking page references is not well supported. If I really want to do that I'll often get the e-book from the library as well.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2021, 11:27:45 AM »
Is a [ ... ] person listening to an audiobook 'reading'?

I've always thought that the discrimination against audiobooks being "real" reading is just, well, discrimination. I don't see any difference, because we are processing the same words as in the book.

Part of the "it doesn't count because you didn't do it with your eyes" thing might be because in the past, a lot of books "on tape" were abridged. That is basically no longer the case. (Chalk up another boon of cheap data storage and production, and the media needed to distribute it.)

I may be biased because I complete more than 100 non-fic books per year (basically no fiction) and a fair number are via audio. (I don't count the ones I don't finish because I've deemed them uninteresting, badly written, or otherwise not worth the trouble, which easily accounts for another 25-50.)

If I think about my experience of the information, I don't feel there's much difference between how I "hold" it in my mind between the two modalities. I still get a sense of overall structure and extract a similar level and quality of info and details.

A plus with audio is multitasking during household chores, making art, going on walks, etc.

A minus is that taking notes and marking page references is not well supported. If I really want to do that I'll often get the e-book from the library as well.

I agree about there being discriminatory (or at least ableist) elements (which may not be intended by folks). Think about folks who are sight-impaired and rely on audio books and audio translations of other materials. Who is going to tell them, "Uh you're not really 'reading'?"

I think this broader view necessarily widens the scope of 'reading' to include being read to by others (because hell, it's just like an audiobook in that way because your brain is getting the same full text as the written version).

And I'm still pretty fascinated by the thought exercise of "what is a book" in the modern age. I'm not sure anyone could give me a satisfactory definition, and I've grown to using phrases like "creating content" or "consuming content" just because there is so much gray area. I mean, in theory, you could 'write' a 'book' using dictation programs and then publish it audio only, so that there are no written words anywhere. Stories can be posted anywhere. Is an audio story that's published via Audible viewed as a book, while the same story published on YouTube isn't? What about an industry expert who creates a guide and publishes it via a podcast in a series of releases? Is that not a book, whereas the same recording on Audible would be a book?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 11:30:26 AM by Nick_Miller »

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2021, 11:34:07 AM »
And I'm still pretty fascinated by the thought exercise of "what is a book" in the modern age. I'm not sure anyone could give me a satisfactory definition, and I've grown to using phrases like "creating content" or "consuming content" just because there is so much gray area. I mean, in theory, you could 'write' a 'book' using dictation programs and then publish it audio only, so that there are no written words anywhere. Stories can be posted anywhere. Is an audio story that's published via Audible viewed as a book, while the same story published on YouTube isn't? What about an industry expert who creates a guide and publishes it via a podcast in a series of releases? Is that not a book, whereas the same recording on Audible would be a book?

I guess I'm wondering why it matters to you whether something is a book or not.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2021, 11:36:17 AM »
There's nothing wrong with audiobooks, but they're hilariously inferior to regular books if there are charts or maps or formulas. That applies to a very wide range of books: military history, or chemistry textbooks, or the good ol' "The Intelligent Investor" by Benjamin Graham. (I pity the fool that tries to listen to the latter hahaha - some pages are so dense that you have to stare at them for a few minutes. :P ) With an audiobook, you'd pay the same amount of money (or more!) and definitely miss out on that important visual content.

On a personal and subjective note, I love highlighting beautiful passages and thought-provoking quotes. Can't do that with an audio book. (Are you going to pull over on the side of the road, grab a pen, and replay and write down the sentence? heh)

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2021, 11:57:54 AM »
And I'm still pretty fascinated by the thought exercise of "what is a book" in the modern age. I'm not sure anyone could give me a satisfactory definition, and I've grown to using phrases like "creating content" or "consuming content" just because there is so much gray area. I mean, in theory, you could 'write' a 'book' using dictation programs and then publish it audio only, so that there are no written words anywhere. Stories can be posted anywhere. Is an audio story that's published via Audible viewed as a book, while the same story published on YouTube isn't? What about an industry expert who creates a guide and publishes it via a podcast in a series of releases? Is that not a book, whereas the same recording on Audible would be a book?

I guess I'm wondering why it matters to you whether something is a book or not.

Like I said, it's a thought exercise. If you think it's silly to think about what a book is, that's fine. I've been accused of overthinking things a lot.

Watchmaker

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2021, 01:02:28 PM »
Like I said, it's a thought exercise. If you think it's silly to think about what a book is, that's fine. I've been accused of overthinking things a lot.

I don't think it is silly, I'm just wondering about the goal of the exercise. Is it to find a better word? To predict where and how story consumption will happen in the future? Différance?

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2021, 01:58:08 PM »
This is a tangent, but considering this is a thread of writers, I hope it's an interesting one.

What does the word 'read' mean to you? Why do you think so many view 'reading' a 'book' (we'll get to what a 'book' is in a sec!) as a more sophisticated activity as opposed to other ways of consuming media, like listening to radio, watching streamed video content, going to movies, etc.? Does it really matter how a person enjoys a story?

Case in point: If a parent is reading a book to their child, is the child 'reading' the book? Is a sight-impaired person listening to an audiobook 'reading'? Does 'read' require eyes viewing/decoding words, or does it mean more than that, especially in the modern era? Is 'reading' equivalent to 'listening?'

I used to have a pretty limited view of reading: eyeballs on words. But I've shifted to a much broader mindset. I think 'read' can be synonymous with 'listen.' I think the key element of 'reading' for me is the pondering, analyzing, considering a piece of content. So basically yeah, I think a person who listens to an audiobook can honestly say "I read Book X," although I think, again, that the mental exercises I mentioned are part of the recipe too. But then I struggle with where the boundaries are. I wouldn't say someone is 'reading' as they binge the newest season of their favorite show, would I?

If a person watches a Netflix series and analyzes the hell out of it (I am so guilty of this, ask my wife) is that somehow inferior to reading the same story and performing the same analysis?

I know as a parent, I've pushed my kiddos to 'read books' and I know a big part of that is strengthening their decoding skills because yes life still expects eyeballs on words, at least for now, but do we as parents overemphasize how reading stimulates thinking as opposed to other ways of consuming content?

Oh, and what makes something a 'book' anyway? Is an audiobook a 'book' in your view? What about a text game where you read and make choices? (tons of them out there). What about a podcast? How is that different really than an audiobook? Can something with no written transcript be a book? What about an old timey serial on radio? Is a hardbound picture book a 'book' just because its...uh...bound? What if it has no words? Still a 'book' somehow? It just seems that clinging to old-fashioned concepts like "binding" and "a physical copy" don't really make sense as to deciding what is and isn't a 'book.'

Thoughts?

I see no difference, there's nothing superior about reading other than that it exercises a different cognitive function that watching something.

There's no way reading a trash bag novel written by a moron is in any way "superior" to watching a really educational television series.

There's a lot of brain rotting content out there in both TV and book form, I'm pretty sure I lost brain cells trying to read "The Wives" by Tarryn Fisher, but I was DEFINITELY intellectually stimulated by the MANY YouTube videos ripping that book to shreds because it's the worst thing ever.

I personally love my fiction in tv form, I like heavy non fiction in audiobook form or documentary form because I watch/listen while walking or cooking, and I like lighter non fiction, like biographies/memoirs in book form because that's what I read to fall asleep.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2021, 03:45:52 PM »
There's nothing wrong with audiobooks, but they're hilariously inferior to regular books if there are charts or maps or formulas.

That's just apples and oranges--and horses for courses. The art technique books I have are physical and in full color for example, and I wouldn't consider an e-book good enough for that either. I don't think anyone is arguing that we should replace all books with audio versions.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #90 on: November 12, 2021, 05:46:02 PM »
There's nothing wrong with audiobooks, but they're hilariously inferior to regular books if there are charts or maps or formulas.

That's just apples and oranges--and horses for courses. The art technique books I have are physical and in full color for example, and I wouldn't consider an e-book good enough for that either. I don't think anyone is arguing that we should replace all books with audio versions.
I never said e-books were as good as paper books. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ My point is that regular, old-fashioned, original-formula OG :P books are the best format in terms of conveying various types of information. Every other format (e-book, or an audio-book, etc) is an adequate replacement but ultimately inferior when you consider all use cases. (Maps, formulas, charts, data visualization, etc.)

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #91 on: November 13, 2021, 08:23:01 AM »
Thanks for starting the thread, @Slow road to freedom , I’m sorry that I missed it the first time around.

On the FI side, I’ve been retired for over 19 years.  I write about U.S. military personal finance, and I started it a couple years after I stopped working for paychecks.  (It grew out of discussing Bob Clyatt's "Work Less, Live More" on Early-Retirement.org.)  I’ve published one book, co-authored another with my daughter, and I’m working on two more.  I’m currently updating my first book, which has aged well over the last decade but needs a refresh.

I write because I enjoy it.  (Or, as my spouse occasionally points out, I can’t shut up.)  The bigger royalty revenue comes from your backlist (especially a series) but hey, you’re doing it when you’re already FI.  (I give all of my revenue to military-friendly charities.)  My royalties are typically $1000-$2000 per year, although that rises with popularity and continued marketing.  Until an author builds up a backlist, their blog income might have much higher revenue from advertising.

Another FI author is Al Macy, who posts as Trombone Al at Early-Retirement.org.  I think he’s been FI since 2005.  He started writing about a decade ago and has published at least 19 books, both non-fiction and fiction.  Lately he’s been writing paranormal SF and legal thrillers.  He and his spouse started their FI years over a decade ago with extreme frugality (it’s in their nature), but the writing thing must be working because a couple years ago he bought a Tesla.  I think their wealth has compounded to the point where they’re trying to learn to live with fatFIRE.

If you haven’t already done so I’d recommend taking a look at MK Williams, either on her own or with ChooseFI.  (She runs the content for the ChooseFI podcast and edits at their publishing arm.)  She writes both fiction and non-fiction, and I think she’s publishing her ninth book this month.  She’s also at AuthorYourAmbition and she has a YouTube channel at The Writer’s Minute.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjvBO4kjuBSYe6Bi3RYQAQA
She and her spouse are not yet FI but they’ll be there within the decade.

She (as part of ChooseFI) helped my daughter and I publish our second book.  I’ve sent several new authors her way and she’s either coached or edited-- whatever they prefer.  She’ll also handle it through ChooseFI if it’s of interest to their audience.  That’s mostly non-fiction but she’s written a great novel about FI:  “Enemies Of Peace.”   

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #92 on: November 15, 2021, 04:24:58 AM »
Another FI author is Al Macy, who posts as Trombone Al at Early-Retirement.org.  I think he’s been FI since 2005.  He started writing about a decade ago and has published at least 19 books, both non-fiction and fiction.  Lately he’s been writing paranormal SF and legal thrillers.  He and his spouse started their FI years over a decade ago with extreme frugality (it’s in their nature), but the writing thing must be working because a couple years ago he bought a Tesla.  I think their wealth has compounded to the point where they’re trying to learn to live with fatFIRE.

If you haven’t already done so I’d recommend taking a look at MK Williams, either on her own or with ChooseFI.  (She runs the content for the ChooseFI podcast and edits at their publishing arm.)  She writes both fiction and non-fiction, and I think she’s publishing her ninth book this month.  She’s also at AuthorYourAmbition and she has a YouTube channel at The Writer’s Minute.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjvBO4kjuBSYe6Bi3RYQAQA

Thanks Nords. I’ll look them up - I’m slowly finding my feet and the veil of mystery is lifting, not in small part because of the generous recommendations of this forum. As NaNoWriMo is in full swing I’ll save a longer update for another time, but I have set a date to FIRE (with my employer) and have started getting more creative ideas as each day passes. It will be a privilege to reclaim 60+ hours / week, so I intend to spend far more time playing with writing.

Slow road

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #93 on: November 15, 2021, 08:23:19 AM »
Like I said, it's a thought exercise. If you think it's silly to think about what a book is, that's fine. I've been accused of overthinking things a lot.

I don't think it is silly, I'm just wondering about the goal of the exercise. Is it to find a better word? To predict where and how story consumption will happen in the future? Différance?

Oh there are definitely some 'futurist' reasons for thinking about it, yeah, when it comes to thinking about what type of content people will consume in the future. We're just a couple years (probably?) from Audible accepting AI-voiced audiobooks, and lines will continue to be crossed and redrawn. Honestly, I sometimes wonder if "book" just means "stories people buy on Amazon" because there are million different ways to consume stories in other ways. I'd be up for writing serials, video and text games, hell I think it would be awesome to write a RPG-style board game. There are just so many different avenues I wonder if I should stick to "books" and how the view of "books" will keep changing a LOT in coming years.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #94 on: November 15, 2021, 09:25:38 AM »
Oh there are definitely some 'futurist' reasons for thinking about it, yeah, when it comes to thinking about what type of content people will consume in the future. We're just a couple years (probably?) from Audible accepting AI-voiced audiobooks, and lines will continue to be crossed and redrawn. Honestly, I sometimes wonder if "book" just means "stories people buy on Amazon" because there are million different ways to consume stories in other ways. I'd be up for writing serials, video and text games, hell I think it would be awesome to write a RPG-style board game. There are just so many different avenues I wonder if I should stick to "books" and how the view of "books" will keep changing a LOT in coming years.

1) I love sharing the stories in my head, and writing a book is the most realistic, low-cost option out there for doing that. Would I much prefer producing movies or writing tv comedies? Sure!! (maybe that makes me different than other authors). But those are not realistic options, so I write books.

I don't think you're alone in that. A fair number of novelists either write for television or wish they could. My most artistically successful writer friend (multiple national awards, teaching position at prestigious writing program, etc) has worked hard to transition into writing for television. He got writing gigs on a few different shows, and then he created a show which was broadcast on HBO last year.

He says the good things about writing for television are the attention it gets (vs. literary fiction) and, primarily, the pay. But he says it is an office job in a way that writing novels is not; he has lots of meetings, HR training, hiring/firing input, and has to negotiate things constantly.

I have friends in game narrative design (video and tabletop) and their jobs also mostly look like regular office jobs. The one who has his own company has more freedom, but then he also has employees to deal with.

There's nothing inherently wrong with any of that, of course. Would you be interested in working for a game company in a creative role? I'm fairly certain you could get such a job with your publishing history.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 01:15:48 PM by Watchmaker »

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #95 on: November 15, 2021, 11:28:19 AM »
Though this might be a good place to ask - my wife is dipping her toes into writing - I think its called YA (Young Adult) genre.

Would anyone have any ideas as to a good Christmas gift for her ?

She already has a laptop - but I was thinking maybe a subscription to the services mentioned earlier in the thread (apex-writers.com and writingmastery.com ).

I am at a loss here - but maybe I can stumble upon a great idea from you guys and win some serious brownie points!

TIA

Nords

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #96 on: November 15, 2021, 11:40:54 AM »
Though this might be a good place to ask - my wife is dipping her toes into writing - I think its called YA (Young Adult) genre.

Would anyone have any ideas as to a good Christmas gift for her ?
I'd recommend any of these four books:
https://authoryourambition.com/books/

cerat0n1a

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #97 on: November 15, 2021, 01:02:08 PM »
I guess I could call myself a FIRE'd 'actual' writer, although in a limited kind of way, and with no immediate plans to write anything else.

I wrote and self-published a (very) niche book on a specific kind of music. It was the first thing I did after stopping work. Marketing was relatively straightforward as there are specific websites and facebook groups where I could publicise it to the couple of hundred people in the world who might be interested. It's been well reviewed on Amazon and by the handful of experts in the field, and has sold more than 300 copies now. I would have considered 100 as pretty successful. It brings in around $30-40 per month - not a great return for what was about 3 months of work, but clearly I wasn't doing it for the money.

Some time after that, I was approached to write a university level textbook on a specific area of technology (funded by a company trying to promote that technology). Worked out to be several months of my previous salary for several months of quite enjoyable work - i.e. not particularly lucrative. Although I've FIRE'd, having a book like this with your name on it leads to some recognition as an 'expert' and I've had quite a few offers of consulting and other roles as a result.


Nick_Miller

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #98 on: November 15, 2021, 01:22:39 PM »
Though this might be a good place to ask - my wife is dipping her toes into writing - I think its called YA (Young Adult) genre.

Would anyone have any ideas as to a good Christmas gift for her ?

She already has a laptop - but I was thinking maybe a subscription to the services mentioned earlier in the thread (apex-writers.com and writingmastery.com ).

I am at a loss here - but maybe I can stumble upon a great idea from you guys and win some serious brownie points!

TIA

Wait...the sausage king of Chicago has graced our humble forums? I need a minute to, you know, compose myself. As you might know, my fictional namesake also hails from the Windy City! You might know him from the show New Girl, or perhaps the Pepperwood Chronicles (which you would also know from...New Girl).

Breaking my shtick, it's very thoughtful of you to show support for her new interest. I might suggest Scrivener as a possible gift. It's only about $50. It's basically software that serves as an organizational tool for authors. Does she have a nice quiet workspace in the home? Does she have a nice comfy chair? That's a big deal for writers. Even something like a cute "writer at work" sign could be a nice stocking stuffer.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1092385358/writer-at-work-ceramic-wall-sign-writer?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_c-home_and_living-home_decor-wall_decor-wall_hangings-other&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAiAp8iMBhAqEiwAJb94z8_UFz8k7rBuG3cfarNz8YLYjdaogLFcujMeCVox2mys8kKO79TLURoCurMQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_1843970815_69827677895_346364735904_pla-305562556206_c__1092385358_516629632&utm_custom2=1843970815&gclid=CjwKCAiAp8iMBhAqEiwAJb94z8_UFz8k7rBuG3cfarNz8YLYjdaogLFcujMeCVox2mys8kKO79TLURoCurMQAvD_BwE

Abe Froman

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #99 on: November 15, 2021, 01:39:58 PM »

Wait...the sausage king of Chicago has graced our humble forums? I need a minute to, you know, compose myself. ....

You may rise, and kiss the ring - LOL. Thank you for the ideas - this is a HUGE help.
But I suspect the best gift I might be able to giver her is to take our 2 DSs and give her a quiet house from time to time.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!