Author Topic: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?  (Read 26156 times)

Slow road to freedom

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Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« on: April 01, 2021, 07:01:28 AM »
I dream about spending chunks of time writing (non-fiction, mostly) when FIRE’d. Well, less of a dream, more of a strong desire to write books that might just bring a smile to one other human.

I’m reasonably close to pulling the trigger - next 1-3 years - but there is a cost to pushing for FIRE. That cost is one of mental energy to indulge my desire to write; I hold a senior position (involves some writing, but mostly numbers) that is pretty all-consuming; I haven’t particularly resented the role - I’m an ‘all or nothing’ kind of person, and I generally enjoy the various challenges. But I’m becoming restless, and wonder if there is anyone who has been through something similar, that is, you have reclaimed energy/time to spend on writing?

I have plot ideas, but I don’t know the first thing about how I might go about starting. Ideally I’d start before I quit my day job, so it needs to be something I can do in chunks over time. I’ve considered starting a blog just to force me to document my journey to writing my first book, but of course that sounds like madness given my brief spells of energy (time) available.

For context, I’m approaching 50 and have a couple of teenagers kicking around, so I don’t want to sacrifice time with them. I want it all - damned job! Finding there aren’t enough hours to do everything I want.

Is this just a prioritisation issue, do you have any tips to help? I’m ever hopeful!

Edwards

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2021, 01:55:06 PM »
I'm not FIRE yet but do have similar goals as you.
Currently, I am deciding whether to slow down my work load or push through at my current pace for another 3-5 years.
Personally, I am leaning towards working part-time while pursuing my creative goals.

This allows me to begin earlier and gain back some sense of enjoyment in my life.
More importantly though, I am able to ease into working on my projects.
I've read/experienced how difficult it can be to suddenly have dramatic changes in one's routine.
Establishing a new routine which eases me back into being creative feels better than going full force.

I've spent time writing in the past and have had some pretty miserable days trying to formulate my thoughts. Some times my work days were a great escape from another day of staring at a blank page.

You know yourself better than anyone here, decide what works best for you and commit to it!
Best of luck.
 


Watchmaker

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2021, 02:11:51 PM »
I'm not quite FIREd and also have dreams of doing more writing. I've managed to do a bit now (just had my first fiction piece published last year), but with my other commitments I just don't have the mental energy left for much writing right now.

There are quite a few more successful writers (than me) around here. @Nick_Miller is one.

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2021, 02:22:49 PM »
I've spent time writing in the past and have had some pretty miserable days trying to formulate my thoughts. Some times my work days were a great escape from another day of staring at a blank page.

You know yourself better than anyone here, decide what works best for you and commit to it!
Best of luck.

Thank you. Do you feel those miserable days were still worth going through, despite not being productive at the time? I have work days like that, but I feel it's more procrastination than any other reason. But I also think we all need down time in order to have creative peaks.  Probably overthinking it, but I sense part-time probably wouldn't work for me - I'd end up working and then be left with no mental capacity for the days set aside for writing....

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2021, 02:25:10 PM »
I'm not quite FIREd and also have dreams of doing more writing. I've managed to do a bit now (just had my first fiction piece published last year), but with my other commitments I just don't have the mental energy left for much writing right now.

There are quite a few more successful writers (than me) around here. @Nick_Miller is one.

How would I go about getting short pieces published? I do feel I need to practice in order to improve, and perhaps that might be a manageable way to get going ahead of quitting work.

I'd be more than happy to converse with a successful writer, especially one that lurks around here!

Metta

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2021, 04:00:33 PM »
I'm budding. One of the reasons I left my job is that it was all-consuming and didn't leave time to write. Writing, though, is all-consuming and difficult in its own way. Four years after FIRE and leaving my job I've placed a few stories at professional rates, written game supplements for a prominent game publisher, and indie published a book. I'm spending a fair amount of time (and some money) learning and writing. And I'm doing it at a comfortable pace.

I don't think writing is a get-rich quick scheme but it is deeply satisfying. My investments kick out enough money that I can do whatever I want. This is what I bought with my excessive overwork and our savings and I couldn't be more delighted. FIRE has met and exceeded my expectations.

Writing, though, is different. Each bit of progress I make reveals how much further I have to go. Dean Wesley Smith says that writing is an international occupation. He compares it to law. You can be a lawyer in a small town and make a good living. You can't be a "small town writer" because writers make their living by selling everywhere. So you are competing against people worldwide. Furthermore, he says that it takes about 10-15 years to make a living at your writing.

"Earning a living with your fiction has become much, much harder and the time frame has moved back outward to the ten year or beyond levels of expectations. It takes that long to learn how to tell great stories lots of readers will want to buy. And it takes that long to build a solid, stable small business, which is what writing is these days." -- Dean Wesley Smith

So it really depends on what you want from your writing. If it is to make a living, you will need to commit to putting in the time to learn how to produce, how to write stories people want to pay for, and how to market and run a small writing business. On the other hand, Craig Martelle (20 Books to 50K) believes that you can reduce that time to making a living through speeding your productivity and better marketing.

Anne Lamott points out that writing is simply good to do whether you make money at it or not.



Metta

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2021, 04:12:20 PM »
I'm not quite FIREd and also have dreams of doing more writing. I've managed to do a bit now (just had my first fiction piece published last year), but with my other commitments I just don't have the mental energy left for much writing right now.

There are quite a few more successful writers (than me) around here. @Nick_Miller is one.

How would I go about getting short pieces published? I do feel I need to practice in order to improve, and perhaps that might be a manageable way to get going ahead of quitting work.

I'd be more than happy to converse with a successful writer, especially one that lurks around here!

On finding markets for short fiction, there are several options, but first let me recommend "Playing the Short Game" by Doug Smith who is a short fiction writer who actually makes a living writing short fiction. He also has a website where he lists foreign markets for short fiction and gives advice to writers: http://smithwriter.com/For_Writers

I use Duotrope to track my stories and find places to submit them. It's not mustachian because there are plenty of other ways to cheaply find markets and other ways to track, but I love Duotrope so I pay for it. Also, at this point I have about 76 short stories in Duotrope. With that quantity it is really handy to have a way to track.

You can also use Submission Grinder to track your fiction and find markets (and it's free): https://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com

There are a variety of Facebook groups that basically track specific markets, for example OPEN CALL: SCIENCE FICTION, FANTASY & PULP MARKETS: https://www.facebook.com/groups/440107622678110

Basically just type "Open Call" into Facebook's search bar and you'll find it.

There are a variety of places to find education on how to write. My favorite is Dean Wesley Smith. On occasion he and his wife (Kristine Kathryn Rusch) give away Teachable courses as part of Kickstarter campaigns. They just finished one that ended up giving away about $1000 of short writing courses (stretch goals) for anyone who backed the campaign at a minimum of $5. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/403649867/the-return-of-the-fey/

You can find education and markets elsewhere as well, depending on your preferred genre. What is your genre?

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2021, 12:07:03 AM »
You can find education and markets elsewhere as well, depending on your preferred genre. What is your genre?

Wow @Metta, that’s a good amount of information in two posts - thank you so much. I’ll certainly head over to the various places and check them out. I took my first tentative step yesterday - I bought a domain name. Just on a whim. I’ve been in cogitation mode for a while and dislike my own inaction - so I thought to start writing, I’d start a blog. I have all sorts of ideas, but mostly I wanted to track my progress. You’ve set me off here; by the sounds of it, it should last the rest of my life!

I’m not wishing to write to be the next J.K. Rowling. Commercial success is something that is very low on my list; the challenge of writing something that even a small number of people like to read is where I am today. Genre? That’s what I need to explore. Science fiction / fantasy has always been my main interest, and ideas I’m having centre around time travel tourism (I also enjoy learning / researching about centuries past, different cultures, beliefs). But [I suppose] because of my work I also write non-fiction, doing my best to articulate complex ideas - so I might stray depending upon my mood.

Although I’m generally drained through work - it sounds like sticking to Plan A to hoard enough cash to live without work is sound - I do want to just start. Start learning how to write, explore my own style, practice as consistently as I can. Is this something I can do effectively 30-60 minutes a day, and a bit longer at weekends, do you think?

Thanks for your help.

Nick_Miller

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2021, 10:09:16 AM »
I dream about spending chunks of time writing (non-fiction, mostly) when FIRE’d. Well, less of a dream, more of a strong desire to write books that might just bring a smile to one other human.

I’m reasonably close to pulling the trigger - next 1-3 years - but there is a cost to pushing for FIRE. That cost is one of mental energy to indulge my desire to write; I hold a senior position (involves some writing, but mostly numbers) that is pretty all-consuming; I haven’t particularly resented the role - I’m an ‘all or nothing’ kind of person, and I generally enjoy the various challenges. But I’m becoming restless, and wonder if there is anyone who has been through something similar, that is, you have reclaimed energy/time to spend on writing?

I have plot ideas, but I don’t know the first thing about how I might go about starting. Ideally I’d start before I quit my day job, so it needs to be something I can do in chunks over time. I’ve considered starting a blog just to force me to document my journey to writing my first book, but of course that sounds like madness given my brief spells of energy (time) available.

For context, I’m approaching 50 and have a couple of teenagers kicking around, so I don’t want to sacrifice time with them. I want it all - damned job! Finding there aren’t enough hours to do everything I want.

Is this just a prioritisation issue, do you have any tips to help? I’m ever hopeful!

Time is short for me today, but I'd love to engage in this thread more next week.

Slow Road to Freedom, I couldn't figure out how to "@" you with the spaces in your name, but basically I feel your situation. Everything about your situation, from your age, to your kiddos' ages, to your work situation and preferred work timeline, to your desire to write, it all speaks to me because it's essentially my situation as well.

I will say that it's been VERY frustrating these past few years handling family/spouse/home/full-time job/pets/normal life stuff AND trying to find writing time on top of it. The transition toward making writing a feasible financial endeavor is really really tough for folks in our situations.

I'd love to chat more. See you folks next week.

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2021, 10:42:23 AM »
I'd love to chat more. See you folks next week.

Looking forward to it!

Tannhauser

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2021, 06:32:21 AM »
Thanks for starting this thread!

I'm FI but not fully RE as I continue to work on short term and consulting projects. One of the reasons I engineered this path was to be able to devote more time to fiction writing. As a former academic, I'd published a few non-fiction books, but the dream was always to make a go of it as a novelist.

So I finished a novel a few years ago, spent another full year revising it with feedback from beta readers, put a lot of work into it. I've gotten nowhere with finding an agent, though, and have come to accept that this particular project will probably never get published. I always knew that was a strong possibility, but it's still frustrating because I see how much crap gets published that's objectively worse as writing than my novel. (Which may sound deluded -- and it could be, a bit -- but we all know bad or at least not-good writing when we see it, and loads of that stuff gets published.) So the wake-up call for me has been that the actual quality of your writing is only one, possibly rather small, factor in getting published. The marketability of your idea seems much more important, and if what you write is difficult to market, well then good luck.

Hence the advice you often hear, about having a thick skin and being prepared for lots of rejection, I've found to be true. The other thing I've found is to be realistic about how fulfilling you expect the writing life to be. I'm really glad and grateful I get to spend a few hours each morning with my brain and the keyboard in this way. However, for me, it's only one, partial component of keeping myself busy and fulfilled. I can't write all day, and don't want to. Plus the odds on ever getting a novel published are long, so if you're only doing it with dreams of fame and fortune, you're bound to be disappointed. The upshot, at least as I've come to understand it for my situation, is to write for yourself, with an eye maybe to getting it published, while knowing it may never be, and also keeping a full plate of other interesting/engaging things to help keep life meaningful.

Will be interested to read the ongoing discussion...

dcheesi

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2021, 06:46:29 AM »
Posting to follow. My S.O. has been writing for several years now, with an experience at least superficially similar to Tannhauser's. She's now branching out into other types of writing, and even considering getting into editing as a side hustle. I'm supportive of whatever she wants to do, but I have no familiarity with any of this, so it's good hear others' experiences and thoughts.

Tucandream

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2021, 02:28:30 PM »
I haven't fired, but could. I'm not ready mentally. I've spent a lifetime building a business and good client rapport, walking away will be hard.

Meanwhile, as a diversion, I've started a blog to document my experiences partially retiring and working remotely in Costa Rica as well writing about our adventures finding a place, building a home etc. I love to write and I'm hoping that perhaps if I ever do want to publish some kind of memoir that having a lot of it already written will be the impetus I need to actually do it. I'm having a lot of fun blogging so highly recommend it to those who might be toying with some writing.

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2021, 01:08:05 AM »

Hence the advice you often hear, about having a thick skin and being prepared for lots of rejection, I've found to be true. The other thing I've found is to be realistic about how fulfilling you expect the writing life to be. I'm really glad and grateful I get to spend a few hours each morning with my brain and the keyboard in this way. However, for me, it's only one, partial component of keeping myself busy and fulfilled. I can't write all day, and don't want to. Plus the odds on ever getting a novel published are long, so if you're only doing it with dreams of fame and fortune, you're bound to be disappointed. The upshot, at least as I've come to understand it for my situation, is to write for yourself, with an eye maybe to getting it published, while knowing it may never be, and also keeping a full plate of other interesting/engaging things to help keep life meaningful.

Hi @Tannhauser. A sobering and important caveat; as much as I’d like the external validation of publishing [and selling] a novel - I wish that wasn’t the case - at this present time that feels unlikely, yet the urge to write is increasing. I don’t know whether the urge to write will be all-consuming if I were FIREd. I think part of the challenge for me is researching, understanding, learning about a subject / period of time (I’m thinking of a mix of historical fiction and science fiction), so perhaps travelling and being curious would be half of the time spent on the ‘writing’ process. Without having actually done it, I’m flying blind.

The point about being engaged is spot on, so you’re right, any goal of being published could and should probably be secondary. Difficult to say that given my career has been spent achieving outcomes; not sure how easy it will be to switch that off....

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2021, 01:09:47 AM »
Posting to follow. My S.O. has been writing for several years now, with an experience at least superficially similar to Tannhauser's. She's now branching out into other types of writing, and even considering getting into editing as a side hustle. I'm supportive of whatever she wants to do, but I have no familiarity with any of this, so it's good hear others' experiences and thoughts.

What other types of writing is your S.O. doing or thinking about doing?

Slow road to freedom

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2021, 01:17:18 AM »
I haven't fired, but could. I'm not ready mentally. I've spent a lifetime building a business and good client rapport, walking away will be hard.

Meanwhile, as a diversion, I've started a blog to document my experiences partially retiring and working remotely in Costa Rica as well writing about our adventures finding a place, building a home etc. I love to write and I'm hoping that perhaps if I ever do want to publish some kind of memoir that having a lot of it already written will be the impetus I need to actually do it. I'm having a lot of fun blogging so highly recommend it to those who might be toying with some writing.

Interesting that you describe blogging as a diversion - do you not see that as part of your writing journey? Great to hear you see blogging as fun; I must admit to feeling a little overwhelmed by the practicalities - I registered a domain name that I’m happy with, and then stopped. I have plenty of potential content but I’m confused about what I need to get a blog up and running. I don’t want to spent very much time designing or maintaining anything, I want to know that’s all taken care of so I can put all of my [small amount of] time to use creatively. I have a feeling once I get going I can start to feel more confident about writing in general, which will - I hope - snowball. Especially as and when I quit my paid work.

Of course, ideally I’d get a part-time gig and write the rest of the time, but that is simply not a credible possibility at present.

How much time do you spend blogging each week?

asauer

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2021, 08:27:07 AM »
I'm a writer.  I squeeze in a couple of hours on the weekend right now, but that adds up.  4 books over 2 years. I plan to do much more than that in retirement.  If you want to offset the cost of writing, I highly recommend self publishing.  Craig Martelle 50booksto50k and Joanna Penn's podcast are most helpful to me in navigating the self pub world.  I do mostly fiction but those two sources are good for both fiction and non fiction.

Tucandream

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2021, 10:36:28 AM »
I haven't fired, but could. I'm not ready mentally. I've spent a lifetime building a business and good client rapport, walking away will be hard.

Meanwhile, as a diversion, I've started a blog to document my experiences partially retiring and working remotely in Costa Rica as well writing about our adventures finding a place, building a home etc. I love to write and I'm hoping that perhaps if I ever do want to publish some kind of memoir that having a lot of it already written will be the impetus I need to actually do it. I'm having a lot of fun blogging so highly recommend it to those who might be toying with some writing.

Interesting that you describe blogging as a diversion - do you not see that as part of your writing journey? Great to hear you see blogging as fun; I must admit to feeling a little overwhelmed by the practicalities - I registered a domain name that I’m happy with, and then stopped. I have plenty of potential content but I’m confused about what I need to get a blog up and running. I don’t want to spent very much time designing or maintaining anything, I want to know that’s all taken care of so I can put all of my [small amount of] time to use creatively. I have a feeling once I get going I can start to feel more confident about writing in general, which will - I hope - snowball. Especially as and when I quit my paid work.

Of course, ideally, I’d get a part-time gig and write the rest of the time, but that is simply not a credible possibility at present.

How much time do you spend blogging each week?

When I said diversion I meant diversion from my day job...and a way perhaps to lead me into retirement.  I do see it as part of my writing journey as it is definitely rekindling my love for writing.   There is definitely much more to creating a "real" blog than I ever knew or expected.  I've blogged on Blogspot and Weebly and they make it very easy, this is my first "fully-fledged" blog on Wordpress.  There are many good "how to set up your blog in 30 minutes" type posts on the internet (just do a search), I followed them to the letter, and they worked. There are many free themes out there that you can use that do all the coding etc for you.  I chose a paid theme as I wanted a certain look.  I try to not get too hung up in all the details of making it look "perfect" and focus more on content.

My goal is one post per week...I have a backlog of many ideas and posts.  I try to limit myself on blogging time to about 10 hours a week.  I could spend so much more time as I do love it.  I spend most of that time on promotion.  Though this blog isn't about earning income for me, I do want it to be successful.  It's just the way I am, if I do it, it has to be done well. 

I'd be happy to provide you with guidance if you want to pursue the blog set-up.  I'm no expert but having just gone through the learning curve, I can probably help point you in the right direction.

Metalcat

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2021, 11:56:03 AM »
I come from a family of quite successful writers, but all in very different types of writing. One was a prolific American smutty mystery writer, who had two books turned into movies, and he wrote a very commonly used fiction writing text book. He was by far the most commercially successful, but frankly, his books are all kind of awful, and none were very well reviewed.

Another had her most recent book hugely critically acclaimed, was just written up in the New York Times, and had a major grant to write the book. It won't sell though, because it's in an Inuit language. Another wrote some hysterically funny autobiographical books because her life was fascinating, and they sold reasonably well and were reasonably well reviewed, but wasn't hugely successful on either front. I'm pretty sure her sole goal was to viciously skewer her adult children and have it persist after her death because she was a shady bitch, lol.

Writing is self expression, so the important thing is to determine what it is that you want to express and what outcome you want.

Do you want to reach as many people as possible? Do you want your words to be critically acclaimed? Do you want people to know you personally? Do you want to teach people something? Do you want to inspire people? Do you want to thoroughly research a topic and paint a written picture of it?

Writing isn't a monolith, it's not a universal experience, it's a tool for self expression.
Know what you want to express and then educate yourself on the logistics of facilitating that expression.

I'm not a huge writer myself. I enjoy writing, but I have very little interest in the kind of work involved in writing a book. I have done quite a bit of professional level copy work: website content, professional profiles, contributions to other people's works, etc. I enjoy writing, but wanting to write and wanting to produce a professional level book are WILDLY different skill sets.

Have you taken any writing courses? If you want to do anything at a professional level, it's always a good idea to take professional level training. Not just for the skills you can learn, but because it helps network you with the kind of people who can advise you through the process. So that's the first thing I would do if I were you, and there are SO MANY amazing online courses out there now.

Watchmaker

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2021, 03:24:47 PM »
I'm not quite FIREd and also have dreams of doing more writing. I've managed to do a bit now (just had my first fiction piece published last year), but with my other commitments I just don't have the mental energy left for much writing right now.

There are quite a few more successful writers (than me) around here. @Nick_Miller is one.

How would I go about getting short pieces published? I do feel I need to practice in order to improve, and perhaps that might be a manageable way to get going ahead of quitting work.

I'd be more than happy to converse with a successful writer, especially one that lurks around here!

I started writing by creating a blog. I wrote about an area that interested me (food). It was modestly successful (a few thousand readers at its peak), and the blog directly lead to some other writing opportunities (I've written for two newspapers, done some paid content generation for industry trade groups, and gotten press passes to go to events and meet people I otherwise probably wouldn't have been able to).

I still do some writing in this area, though not as intensively as I did in years past. I'd much rather spend my time writing fiction, but I find that to be much harder to fit in around work. As I mentioned, I have had one piece of fiction published as part of an anthology. I haven't submitted much work--I need to be a better writer before I'm ready to really try hard in that direction.

I second the advice to get training. I'm not taking any creative writing courses, but I am taking literature classes and they have definitely made me a better writer.

dcheesi

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2021, 08:07:11 AM »
Posting to follow. My S.O. has been writing for several years now, with an experience at least superficially similar to Tannhauser's. She's now branching out into other types of writing, and even considering getting into editing as a side hustle. I'm supportive of whatever she wants to do, but I have no familiarity with any of this, so it's good hear others' experiences and thoughts.

What other types of writing is your S.O. doing or thinking about doing?
She had an idea for a children's picture book, and now mulling over a couple of others.

StarBright

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2021, 08:24:08 AM »
PTF -

Husband is an academic so he writes a lot. His fun writing is mostly for magazines and newspapers and no more than a dozen articles a year. He dreams of writing a book that is both peer-review quality research and fully accessible for general readership.

I wrote l'il bits of feminist leaning parenting and personal finance stuff for some websites that are no longer publishing and got too busy to ever try and find new platforms. It was fun and gave me 40-80 bucks a pop for a while. A few years ago I decided to do national write a novel month. I didn't write a novel in a month, but I've been slowly chipping away at something since then. It will likely only be for me but it is creatively satisfying.

For non-fiction, my husband would be lost without his Scrivener software.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 08:28:25 AM by StarBright »

Watchmaker

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2021, 09:33:27 AM »
For non-fiction, my husband would be lost without his Scrivener software.

I use scrivener for fiction as well and would recommend it.

DragonSlayer

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2021, 10:22:23 AM »
Well, I'll share my experience. Maybe it helps someone, maybe not. At any rate, I'm a Fired writer. Published four novels with a small press, three YA and one adult fiction. You'd think it's a dream come true, and in some ways it is. But I'm struggling...

Writing is fun for me. Publishing is not. There's almost no aspect of publication that I have enjoyed. I do not enjoy social media marketing. (I hate social media with a passion, so the idea that I have to be on day after day to "promote" my work and craft an "image" makes me ill. I've tried everything I can to come at it with a positive attitude, and I just can't.) Even sites like Goodreads can be toxic. Bad reviews don't bother me, but the hostility that some exhibit towards authors will blow your mind. And it's a tightrope to avoid being "cancelled" or doxxed should your work somehow offend someone. It's terrifying in some ways because you're always waiting for the day that one remark or plot point put a target on your back. 

Marketing in general is a struggle. While I'm good with Photoshop etc. and can make my own promo graphics, trailers and materials for giveaways, doing so takes time away from writing. But paying someone else to do it costs money that my writing does not bring in. At best I break even. At worst, I'm losing money. I'm published by a small press, so most of the marketing is on me. They do help out some, but not much.

Then there's the time I spend chasing reviews, trying to find places to advertise that aren't scams, organizing blog tours and personal appearances for new releases, etc. Very time consuming and almost never worth the investment in either time or money, but still something that has to be done to appease my publisher who wants to see us hustle.

And let's not forget that Amazon is no one's friend. Its algorithms are hostile to writers and reviewers, making it almost impossible to gain traction there as a small writer from a small press if you aren't willing to spend the time trying to out-game the algorithm or resort to some shady tactics to get around it.

All in all, the process of being published is exhausting and expensive. Perhaps it would be different with a large press, but from what I hear, not by much. It's just a very competitive world and while there is money to be made, you have to be far more willing than I to whore yourself and your work on every platform and at every opportunity.

What it comes down to fo me is that I enjoy writing, but publishing has just about killed my desire to write anything. I'm like, "Yay! I finished a book. Now why did I do that because now I'm going to have to market it. Ugh."

Honestly, I'm at the point where I'm just going to write and publish my work on my website for free and no longer worry about traditional publication, or even self-publishing with the aim of selling anything on Amazon, etc. I think I'll just put it up there and then post on social media: "Hey, I wrote a thing and here it is. Read it or don't, I really don't care because I'm off to write a new thing."

YMMV. If you like social media and marketing, then publication may absolutely be for you. If you're an extrovert who doesn't fear an online mob coming after you, then you may love it. I know quite a few writers who enjoy the challenge, so I know it works for some. Don't take me as the absolute Debbie Downer. But when I was seeking a publisher, I grossly underestimated exactly what would be required and how much time and joy it would take away from the writing. That's on me, and now I have to find a way to get back to the love of writing because being published has just about killed it.
 

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2021, 11:10:07 AM »
^that is so spot on

I have a professor friend who has published several academic books and he got a grant to write a historical poetry book, which as far as I can tell, only about 6 people will buy.

Anyway, his old publisher wants to publish the book, which he had intended to self publish. He was explaining to me that professional publishing would likely increase his sales, but actually lower his profits, and require hundreds and hundreds of extra hours of work, and changes to the book that he didn't want to make.

The whole process sounded brutal.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2021, 11:29:47 AM »
Thirding DragonSlayer and MalCat. DH and I each have writer friends who are NYT best selling (his friend in non-fiction, my friend in fiction) and the amount of promotion they do is insane.

My friend in particular HUSTLES! I've known her for almost 20 years, basically since she was writing her first book, and only for her last three books has she not had to arrange her own publicity stuff. She still has to do the promotion, just finally has someone to arrange the blog tours, bookstore visits and various interviews for her. She and some fellow genre authors also had an entire writing side hustle going writing some group fiction. It worked! Three of the six of them have ended up on bestseller lists, but I feel like she has developed an entire digital marketing career in addition to her writing work.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 02:30:28 PM by StarBright »

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2021, 02:26:03 PM »
I'm a writer.  I squeeze in a couple of hours on the weekend right now, but that adds up.  4 books over 2 years. I plan to do much more than that in retirement.  If you want to offset the cost of writing, I highly recommend self publishing.  Craig Martelle 50booksto50k and Joanna Penn's podcast are most helpful to me in navigating the self pub world.  I do mostly fiction but those two sources are good for both fiction and non fiction.

Thank you @asauer. You must be reasonably prolific to write one back every six months, on average, mostly on weekends? That would fit my ‘free time’ right now, although I want to immerse myself in learning the craft so I think by definition I’ll be slower. Interesting point re self publishing; a friend of mine has also self published and has been ok with the process. Not a big selling title, mind you. I’ll look up your suggestions.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2021, 02:32:59 PM »
Writing is self expression, so the important thing is to determine what it is that you want to express and what outcome you want.

Have you taken any writing courses? If you want to do anything at a professional level, it's always a good idea to take professional level training. Not just for the skills you can learn, but because it helps network you with the kind of people who can advise you through the process. So that's the first thing I would do if I were you, and there are SO MANY amazing online courses out there now.
Hi @Malcat, you ask good questions. It’s that kind of challenge I benefit from, and why I pose the occasional question on the forum. I agree with you - writing is self expression - but the outcome I really want is not yet clear. I’ll spend a while pondering and reflecting. I enjoy learning from reading, so it would be perverse if I didn’t want a similar outcome for my readers. One thing I don’t know is whether I’ll be able to judge whether the quality of my writing, my ability to transport the reader to a place and time I want them to experience, will improve over time. I relish the challenge, but like anyone starting a journey of a thousand steps....well, I have a long, long way to go.

As for professional training, you’re right, and I hadn’t thought about doing that immediately. Probably because I consider myself an amateur (which I am). But it does make sense to engage early.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2021, 02:35:06 PM »
For non-fiction, my husband would be lost without his Scrivener software.

I use scrivener for fiction as well and would recommend it.

I’d not heard of Scrivener. Another thing to check out! Thanks!

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2021, 02:43:02 PM »
Writing is fun for me. Publishing is not.

Don't take me as the absolute Debbie Downer. But when I was seeking a publisher, I grossly underestimated exactly what would be required and how much time and joy it would take away from the writing. That's on me, and now I have to find a way to get back to the love of writing because being published has just about killed it.

Thanks @DragonSlayer (+ @Malcat and @StarBright). The good news is I’m not ready to publish anything. The less good news is - of course - I hadn’t given publishing any thought whatsoever. I want to write because it excites me. Like you, I’m not an extrovert, and the thought of self-publicising (especially via social media) exhausts me. My interactions with people must be personal and meaningful; mass marketing has never been on my ‘love it’ list. Thank you for highlighting your experience; I’d rather have the heads up now so I know what might be coming.

Is self-publishing easy enough to do, if I’m not bothered about sales volumes? I’m also not overly fussed about whether there’s a net cost to me; I think the fact a book is published would be reward enough for me. Or is that the bias of inexperience?

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2021, 02:51:32 PM »
Writing is self expression, so the important thing is to determine what it is that you want to express and what outcome you want.

Have you taken any writing courses? If you want to do anything at a professional level, it's always a good idea to take professional level training. Not just for the skills you can learn, but because it helps network you with the kind of people who can advise you through the process. So that's the first thing I would do if I were you, and there are SO MANY amazing online courses out there now.
Hi @Malcat, you ask good questions. It’s that kind of challenge I benefit from, and why I pose the occasional question on the forum. I agree with you - writing is self expression - but the outcome I really want is not yet clear. I’ll spend a while pondering and reflecting. I enjoy learning from reading, so it would be perverse if I didn’t want a similar outcome for my readers. One thing I don’t know is whether I’ll be able to judge whether the quality of my writing, my ability to transport the reader to a place and time I want them to experience, will improve over time. I relish the challenge, but like anyone starting a journey of a thousand steps....well, I have a long, long way to go.

As for professional training, you’re right, and I hadn’t thought about doing that immediately. Probably because I consider myself an amateur (which I am). But it does make sense to engage early.

I've taken a lot of professional level writing classes and seminars, and they have a HUGE impact and give you that capacity to evaluate your own work.

Every writer has blind spots in their own writing, and coursework really helps with that. It's what irons the amateur out of your style. It's the same way that without professional training, even the most talented amateur artists tend to have a carfty look to their paintings.

There are always exceptions, but they are rare and a little high level tutelage goes a long way.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2021, 02:55:03 PM »
Writing is fun for me. Publishing is not.

Don't take me as the absolute Debbie Downer. But when I was seeking a publisher, I grossly underestimated exactly what would be required and how much time and joy it would take away from the writing. That's on me, and now I have to find a way to get back to the love of writing because being published has just about killed it.

Thanks @DragonSlayer (+ @Malcat and @StarBright). The good news is I’m not ready to publish anything. The less good news is - of course - I hadn’t given publishing any thought whatsoever. I want to write because it excites me. Like you, I’m not an extrovert, and the thought of self-publicising (especially via social media) exhausts me. My interactions with people must be personal and meaningful; mass marketing has never been on my ‘love it’ list. Thank you for highlighting your experience; I’d rather have the heads up now so I know what might be coming.

Is self-publishing easy enough to do, if I’m not bothered about sales volumes? I’m also not overly fussed about whether there’s a net cost to me; I think the fact a book is published would be reward enough for me. Or is that the bias of inexperience?

If all you want to do is write, then why not just publish a narrative online in blog form?

I adored John Dies At The End, which was released chapter by chapter online with no marketing and became so popular it was made into a movie.

If you don't care about selling units, then why worry about publishing your work in units?

asauer

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2021, 06:52:01 AM »
^that is so spot on

I have a professor friend who has published several academic books and he got a grant to write a historical poetry book, which as far as I can tell, only about 6 people will buy.

Anyway, his old publisher wants to publish the book, which he had intended to self publish. He was explaining to me that professional publishing would likely increase his sales, but actually lower his profits, and require hundreds and hundreds of extra hours of work, and changes to the book that he didn't want to make.

The whole process sounded brutal.
MalCat- this is exactly why I went self pub.  I did one traditional pub and did just as much marketing for LESS profit.  No thanks.  It’s crazy.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2021, 07:09:10 AM »
Wow this blew up since last week. I'm not even sure what to reply to. I've been creating content for about 6 years and I've made a small profit (average of about $7K profit or so a year)

Anyway, I think anyone who says "I want to write" should probably ask themselves, "Why? What's my goal? Who is my audience? Just myself? My family/friends? A commercial audience? Am I approaching this as a part-time job or just a hobby? Is it important for me to actually earn a profit? Do I actually want to learn the publishing business or am I happier just writing stories and working with a publisher?" That sorta stuff.

For me...

1) "Why do I write?" I write because I: a) enjoy the creative process, and b) enjoy people consuming my stories. Would I write for a) alone? NOPE. Well, I might write a little, like I might enter a few short story contests and stuff like that, but would I grind out hundreds of thousands of words if like 10 people were going to read them? Hell no. I approach this 50/50 as fun/profitable, and I need both elements to make this work. If it stopped being fun, I'd likely drop the mic too.

2) "Who is my audience?" Commercial audience, mostly younger people, folks 25 and under. That reminds me that I need to finally need to create an IG account.

3) "Part-time job or hobby?" This causes some arguments in my household because I answer "part-time job" but my wife views it as "hobby" because even in my best year I made about $14K, which is a small sliver of our overall household income. But figure this out early on.  If you are focusing on getting content published and getting sales, open a separate account, track your business expenses/income, all of that stuff. I've filed a Schedule C since around 2016. But it's fine if you just want a hobby! There's a guy in my writing group, he's in his early 70s, and honestly I think he just wanted to get a book published. It was probably a one-time thing with, a labor of love. He ended up working with a small press because he didn't really want to learn the publishing business, ads, promotional sites, newsletters, etc.

4) "Do I want to learn the business?" Yes. But right now I'm in a spot where I really don't have to, and honestly with my time at a premium right now, it's best for me to work with a publisher. If I'm semi-retired a few years down the road and have a bit more free time, then I'd definitely dive into self-publishing (which will have changed a lot from where it is now. It changes SO fast).

And the transition to full-time creative is just super frustrating. My wife and I both bring in about 50% of our income, so neither of us can just leave work right now. If I was profiting about $5K a month writing, then heck year I could probably shift to that, but crap I'm not even in the ballpark. I'm not even in the parking lot for the ballpark. Most months I net somewhere around $500, so I'm 10% there at best. Sometimes I ponder just giving it up, at least for a few years, to ease my feelings of frustration. But I hate the thought of giving up the modest amount of momentum I've built.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 07:21:41 AM by Nick_Miller »

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2021, 08:13:52 AM »
I think Nick's questions are great, and worth your time to really think about. Here are how I answer them:

What's my goal?
Two goals--I like to use writing to open new doors (like the press passes I mentioned above), and I want to write one good novel (I'm working on three, all at different stages, but I'd be satisfied to finish one).

Who is my audience? Just myself? My family/friends? A commercial audience?
Not just myself, but I don't need many readers to be happy. Honestly, if I knew one person other than me genuinely liked it, I'd be okay.

Am I approaching this as a part-time job or just a hobby?
Hobby now. Full-time occupation when FIREd?

Is it important for me to actually earn a profit?
Nope.

Do I actually want to learn the publishing business or am I happier just writing stories and working with a publisher?"
I'm always interested in learning about new businesses. I have some ideas about opening a bookstore as well, later in life.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2021, 09:18:30 AM »
All wonderful advice and information here so far.

Would add one more How-To source:  The Great Courses has a video and book "How to Write Best-Selling Fiction" by novelist and writing instructor James Scott Bell.  I'm working with a family member who has a solid idea for a novel based on a true historical event.  Both of us are total amateurs so I'm finding Bell's video to be very helpful.  We're stumbling along but right now it's mostly fun.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2021, 04:42:23 PM »
Unless you are an owner of the business, you work for pay according to terms of employment.   Said terms are in your employee handbook.

Any hours you work over the terms of employment is an unpaid gift to your employer.
Said gift might be reciprocated with a bonus or a raise, but then again it might not be.

The solution -- particularly since you have FU money or FIRE wouldn't be just a few short years away -- is to stop giving your time away to your employer unless one of three conditions are met:

1) It's a true emergency.    Routine situations are not emergencies, they are just planned short-staffing in the hopes of provoking an unpaid gift of your time.

2) You learn something or practice a skill you want for yourself.

3) You help someone you work with and care about learn something.

Otherwise, it's your time and you simply are not obligated to give it away.

Making the above decision early in my corporate career.  I also (a) chose to never do something the wrong way unless actively forced by management to do so and (b) never asking a manager to make a decision I would not like, i.e., never give them a bad option in a list of options to choose from (because they'll make a beeline right to it faster than a cokehead will run to a free line of cocaine) did wonders for my career progression.

I sometimes worked more than 40 hours, but only if I got something out of it (because true emergencies are rare in most lines of work).   Because I grew my skills in those extra hours learning things I wanted to learn, I got better at those things.   People I mentored would move to other companies and give me employment options in their new place.   And, because I never knowingly did things the wrong way unless a manager was actively sitting at my desk making me do so, I had less poo to clean up, so I was more productive.   

And that's how I found the time to write 50+ technical papers and articles, a technical book, and learn to write fiction stories and write portions of some role playing game supplements as well.   Plus have other hobbies and chase my wife around the house...  :)

You have to make time to do it or it won't get done.   

Hope that helps.   

damyst

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2021, 04:08:06 PM »
The folks at Millennial Revolution achieved an old dream of getting a children's book published. They also published a book about FIRE.

They write about the experience e.g. here: https://www.millennial-revolution.com/build/signed-book-deal/
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 03:00:20 PM by damyst »

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2021, 01:19:32 PM »
The folks at Millennial A Revolution achieved an old dream of getting a children's book published. They also published a book about FIRE.

They write about the experience e.g. here: https://www.millennial-revolution.com/build/signed-book-deal/
Good link @damyst, thanks. I’ve come across Kristy but not that post, which concurs with other posters here. Definitely an ‘eyes wide open’ exercise for me!

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2021, 12:58:47 PM »
I've really enjoyed this thread, thanks!

I'm basically at FIRE, hoping to either quit or scale significantly back in the next year or so (basically depends on where our annual spending comes in -- we just moved internationally).  I was a creative writing major, wrote a bunch of short stories, poems, novel starts, etc., then transitioned to writing songs, had some success playing with bands, then in my 30's got a real job.  Now (44) and looking at retirement, I've been thinking again about writing.  Mostly, about my favorite unfinished novel.

Fundamentally, though, I don't think writing makes me happy.  For whatever reason, I really struggle with my perfectionism there, whereas I've been able to let it go in a lot of other areas of my life (DIY, investing, music, parenting, etc.).  I suspect I'll try writing again, but if it isn't fun in and of itself (and, for me, it historically hasn't been), I'll just let it go.  It's been very interesting to learn more about the business side of things, too.  I figured it was pretty bleak, and I appreciate the candor.

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2021, 02:47:37 PM »
Enjoying this thread.

I am FI but not RE.  Retirement plans are tentative right now, most likely not immediate, but I am taking a sabbatical year soon to give it a "trial run."  I have also dramatically cut back on my commitments at work, in the hopes that just cutting back on the excess will leave enough free time to do the things I want but have not been able to.

I am already a writer of sorts, as I have publications related to my work, including one book which has sold pretty well for its niche (a textbook). I am presently working on a second work-related book. Don't have the publication details of that one nailed down as yet but have been in discussions and I expect to publish it without too much drama. I also used to write articles for a finance and investment site on AOL (totally not dating myself with that) which was kind of fun for a while.

I have been working for a few years now on speculative fiction in my spare time. That's a whole other story, so to speak. I've made decent progress on a first novel, a labor of love really. Well, actually I've made terrible progress on it, but given the other priorities I've had to balance I've made about as much progress as anyone could hope to, so I'm going to call that decent progress anyway.  I have also written a few short stories which I am just now finally starting to submit hither and yon. My baby, though, is this novel -- though I don't know if I really have it in me to finish the bloody thing or for it to be the masterwork I hope.  But finishing and publishing it is a life goal.  I don't aspire to fame and glory but I'd love to complete this novel and possibly two other related ones. Maybe a dozen short stories. That's more than enough literary ambition for me.

Even under the most ridiculously optimistic assumptions, though, not likely to ever make any money off of them. Looking into even the best case scenarios for publication, it became clear to me pretty fast that even under the best circumstances, this was not something I was going to do before hitting FIRE (or at last FI semi-R E).  In fact realizing that was one of the things that made me get serious about my FIRE goals. (I was already on the FIRE path, really, just not explicitly so.) Seven or eight years ago I joined a local spec-fic writers group, and at one of the first meetings I attended we had a guest speaker, someone who was actually making a go of it as their job. Not anyone super-famous, but someone who had written a couple of TV scripts back in the day and whose books you can probably find in your local Barnes and Noble. As they talked it became apparent that the only way they were making a go of it was by banging out way too much volume way too fast, always up against word counts and deadlines, hacking away milking a couple of long running series ... and for all of that, making the equivalent of a minimum wage income.

Yeah, that's not really living the dream for me. 

As a FIREd writer, though, there's the freedom to write what you want, and not have to worry about making a living from it. That does sound like living the dream.

The publication game for fiction is tough, and while I do plan to submit the novel here and there in case some agent or author immediately recognizes my genius, realistically I expect to self-publish.  The problem with self-publishing, though, is that while it's easy to get published that way (especially these days) and for sale on Amazon, it's not so easy to get anyone to buy it or read it. The main advantage of publication with a "real publisher" is the promotion aspect, which is much harder to do on your own. Certainly if you're not a self-promoter, which I most certainly ain't. Fortunately, though, being FI doesn't just mean not having to care if I make money off it; it also means that within a certain budget I don't have to worry about losing money on it either. I can afford to spend the equivalent of a car promoting it, getting advertisements and paid reviews, etc.  If that gets the right eyes on it and it takes off, great, and when the movie rights get optioned, drinks are on me. If not, oh well, if my wife hasn't divorced me yet, so she probably won't over my pissing away a chunk of change chasing this particular dream.

Am interested in hearing more of others' stories and plans.

I totally agree that the idea of being a FIRE'ed writer, with time to create and no pressure to earn a profit, sounds like the dream life. (Although I wouldn't be happy writing stories that no one read. I'd at least need SOME readers, enough to make it enjoyable)

But I'll say this about traditional publishers, from what I understand, they aren't that great at marketing either, and even trad authors are expected to get out there and market. The downside is that such a set-up (author not controlling price, not able to sign up for promotions, not having access to daily sales figures, etc.)  makes it incredibly hard for the trad author's efforts to actually help.

I really don't see the appeal of most trad lit publishers (I work in a niche market that staddles game/book so it's a bit different) because unless the author scores a BIG advance, what exactly is the benefit? Your royalties will be smaller, you won't get final say on cover/editing, you may have to sign a one-sided contract (crap like them getting ancillary rights even if they aren't going to exploit them), and some of them take FOREVER to push out a book, meaning you can't pursue any sort of rapid release approach.

With my publisher, they own/develop the software, they have a good customer base, and they market the stories, putting them on numerous platforms, etc. They also give me monthly sales figures, something trad lit publishers certainly do NOT do.

All this being said, if someone just wants to get a book published, maybe they're older, or maybe they just don't care about learning the industry and grinding out all the other aspects (cover artist, editor, blurb, formatting, marketing) then I would get their decision.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 02:53:54 PM by Nick_Miller »

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2021, 03:07:18 PM »
I really don't see the appeal of most trad lit publishers (I work in a niche market that staddles game/book so it's a bit different) because unless the author scores a BIG advance, what exactly is the benefit? Your royalties will be smaller, you won't get final say on cover/editing, you may have to sign a one-sided contract (crap like them getting ancillary rights even if they aren't going to exploit them), and some of them take FOREVER to push out a book, meaning you can't pursue any sort of rapid release approach. .

My writer friend has indicated that her "big" money has come from her work being optioned for film/TV. If you end up achieving that level of success it I could see how traditional publishers would be worth it, eventually.

anni

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2021, 03:35:39 PM »
Sorry if someone already mentioned this but the fella at Living a Fi FIREd in part to write more. He recently gave an update after several years where he discusses writing a bit and links out to some other posts about that dream. He might be around here on these forums somewhere...

asauer

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2021, 06:09:58 AM »
I'm a writer.  I squeeze in a couple of hours on the weekend right now, but that adds up.  4 books over 2 years. I plan to do much more than that in retirement.  If you want to offset the cost of writing, I highly recommend self publishing.  Craig Martelle 50booksto50k and Joanna Penn's podcast are most helpful to me in navigating the self pub world.  I do mostly fiction but those two sources are good for both fiction and non fiction.

Thank you @asauer. You must be reasonably prolific to write one back every six months, on average, mostly on weekends? That would fit my ‘free time’ right now, although I want to immerse myself in learning the craft so I think by definition I’ll be slower. Interesting point re self publishing; a friend of mine has also self published and has been ok with the process. Not a big selling title, mind you. I’ll look up your suggestions.

Not prolific so much as seriously organized.  I'm not a particularly fast writer.  I'm a major plot/story planner and I plan all my promotional activities at the beginning of the month so on the weekend all I have to do is execute.  FYI- my favorite book on writing craft is Story Grid (if you're doing fiction).  It really changed the way I write for the better.

Missy B

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2021, 04:26:50 PM »

I have plot ideas, but I don’t know the first thing about how I might go about starting. Ideally I’d start before I quit my day job, so it needs to be something I can do in chunks over time. I’ve considered starting a blog just to force me to document my journey to writing my first book, but of course that sounds like madness given my brief spells of energy (time) available.

For context, I’m approaching 50 and have a couple of teenagers kicking around, so I don’t want to sacrifice time with them. I want it all - damned job! Finding there aren’t enough hours to do everything I want.

Is this just a prioritisation issue, do you have any tips to help? I’m ever hopeful!

It is partially a prioritization issue. But family must come first. You'll need to look at your entire day, holistically, and find the slow time bleeds. You need to find 15-20 minutes a day when you can write that you are not exhausted.
For me, it was surfing and reading news. If I want to write when things are busy at work, I cannot afford to read news in the morning at all. That is where I get my time.

Because you have family, you need to also have a conversation with family members about what you're doing and why, so your precious writing window each day doesn't get stolen by 'please can you run this errand right now/help with this overdue homework/fix this broken thing.'

I don't think you can afford a blog, timewise. Documenting your journey takes time away from the actual book, so which is the priority? If you want support for accountability there are groups that do that -- sometimes nothing more than everyone posting each day to say 'I did ---- words today.'

And I want to echo the recommendation by Metta of Dean Wesley Smith and Kristine Katherine Rusch's blogs and writing courses. They are extremely good value, and they do regular promotions on Kickstarter where courses are included at very good to outstanding prices.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 04:44:30 PM by Missy B »

Sailor Sam

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2021, 04:52:44 PM »
I’m not FIRE’d, but I’ve published about 150,000 words in the last 2 years. Two novellas, and several short stories. Sometimes writing is fun and easy, and sometimes it’s a soul sucking slog. The key is, like most things in life, is to just keep going.

Having a friend, or editor you can talk to about plot points and character composition helps, and is both fun and motivational. Reddit and Quora both have writing communities that are (generally) above the dross.

Also consider your pride, and where it will tolerate you publishing. I post my stories for free on Archive of Our Own, where I have a modest following that took me several years to built.

I guess the primary question becomes: do you want to be “a writer,” or do you want to “have written?” Those are two very different things, and they are going to drive how you approach the work itself, and what sort of distribution you want.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2021, 01:37:17 AM »
Paging @nippycrisp .

Missy B

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2021, 03:32:44 PM »
Unless you are an owner of the business, you work for pay according to terms of employment.   Said terms are in your employee handbook.

Any hours you work over the terms of employment is an unpaid gift to your employer.
Said gift might be reciprocated with a bonus or a raise, but then again it might not be.

The solution -- particularly since you have FU money or FIRE wouldn't be just a few short years away -- is to stop giving your time away to your employer unless one of three conditions are met:

1) It's a true emergency.    Routine situations are not emergencies, they are just planned short-staffing in the hopes of provoking an unpaid gift of your time.

2) You learn something or practice a skill you want for yourself.

3) You help someone you work with and care about learn something.

Otherwise, it's your time and you simply are not obligated to give it away.

Making the above decision early in my corporate career.  I also (a) chose to never do something the wrong way unless actively forced by management to do so and (b) never asking a manager to make a decision I would not like, i.e., never give them a bad option in a list of options to choose from (because they'll make a beeline right to it faster than a cokehead will run to a free line of cocaine) did wonders for my career progression.

I sometimes worked more than 40 hours, but only if I got something out of it (because true emergencies are rare in most lines of work).   Because I grew my skills in those extra hours learning things I wanted to learn, I got better at those things.   People I mentored would move to other companies and give me employment options in their new place.   And, because I never knowingly did things the wrong way unless a manager was actively sitting at my desk making me do so, I had less poo to clean up, so I was more productive.   

And that's how I found the time to write 50+ technical papers and articles, a technical book, and learn to write fiction stories and write portions of some role playing game supplements as well.   Plus have other hobbies and chase my wife around the house...  :)

You have to make time to do it or it won't get done.   

Hope that helps.

I never read any of those 'One Minute Manager' books and so have no idea whether they were any good. I doubt they were as good as this post.

nippycrisp

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2021, 03:45:58 PM »
Yeah, ok. I didn't read the entire thread, because it seemed much of it sprawled into publishing and promotions and career questions, which is like discussing the frosting for a cake that doesn't yet exist.

From what I did read, it seems Slow Road wants to write books but has never actually written one. I hear this pretty often, maybe dozens of times. So when I tell you that no one who's asked me how to start writing has never actually written that book they have an idea for, understand that I have a decent sample size to work from.

For your situation as a late-stage FIRE-seeker, I'm going to use an analogy that tries to make a point. In college, there would be Friday nights where I  would be up in my dorm room studying for a biochemistry test. It was not enjoyable, as you can imagine. I could hear people out having fun, and I would fantasize about all the neat stuff I could be doing when this damn test was over and done with. Invariably though, the test would come and go, and afterwards I never did any of that stuff I dreamed of doing.

The same thing happened with FIRE for me. I had these dreams about what I would be doing "after". Then it happened, and what emerged wasn't quite what I'd imagined. I played less golf, not more, and I got into woodworking, which I'd never even thought about. But writing made the cut, because I was already a writer. I'd written books before I retired. I had specific ideas. most importantly, I was excited about doing.

The only way to be a writer is to write. Your biggest problem, from where I sit, is that you don't know that you enjoy writing. You just think you would. 

That's not a knock. I suspect you enjoy reading as well, but the difference between reading and writing is like enjoying watching a movie and working on a movie. Related, kinda, but far from identical.

Advice on getting started? Just write, baby. I blogged while I was working, here and on my personal website. I wrote shorter nonfiction stories (again, here and on my own website). Eventually I wrote a book. Then another, and another, and another.

For a full book, the easiest most effective way I know is to write a minimum number of words every day. Commit to writing 500 or 1,000 words a day minimum, no matter what. Even if it's just crap filler that you'll have to fix later, put down the words. Do that for three to six months, and you should have enough verbiage for a rough draft of a novel. Easy to say, not so easy to do.

Good luck, whatever path you wind up taking.   

Metalcat

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Re: Any FIRE’d budding or ‘actual’ writers?
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2021, 03:58:53 PM »
Funny, for me, knowing the realities of the publishing industry really helped me focus on what kind of writing I wanted to do.

There are so many types of writing to be done, but people default to "book", even though it's often the worst option.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!