The Money Mustache Community

Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: Melisande on January 20, 2017, 08:50:50 AM

Title: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Melisande on January 20, 2017, 08:50:50 AM
I woke up today feeling embarrassed for our country. Then, I remembered that he'll now have access to those nuclear codes and am now trying hard not to worry.

You?
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 20, 2017, 10:23:29 AM
A wide mix if emotions. Relieved that at least one step is finished, and hopefully things can progress from here. Embarrassed that there is such a disconnect in understanding between one half of the country and the other. Excited to see what sort of changes happen over the next months and years. Hopeful that things turn out even better than anyone hopes.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Rimu05 on January 20, 2017, 10:27:08 AM
I didn't think my first time listening to a sermon in 10 years would be at an inauguration. Heavens, this is so religious.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Kris on January 20, 2017, 10:28:05 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ-bIeJ4zOY

Our new national anthem.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: SomedayStache on January 20, 2017, 10:37:01 AM
Existential dread interspersed with the desire to take action, moments of hope, love, confusion.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: ysette9 on January 20, 2017, 10:39:18 AM
I woke up in the middle of the night last night and had trouble falling back asleep due to the pit of dread I felt in my stomach. I tried hard to distract myself but late at night it was hard to avoid the thought of the inauguration. It is embarrassing and scary to be an American right now. I am ashamed of my country.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Cwadda on January 20, 2017, 10:39:50 AM
I didn't think my first time listening to a sermon in 10 years would be at an inauguration. Heavens, this is so religious.

Religion has always been intertwined in the fabric of the country. Has always been, won't end here.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: solon on January 20, 2017, 10:53:50 AM
I was excited and proud. All that talk about turning the country over to the people reminded me why I like him. If he can deliver on the themes of his speech, it really will be a great country again.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: lemanfan on January 20, 2017, 10:58:24 AM
It made me want to re-read "The World of Yesterday" by Stefan Zweig. 
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: waltworks on January 20, 2017, 10:59:30 AM
People watch inaugurations? I was out skiing.

-W
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: FIREGuy on January 20, 2017, 11:13:38 AM
Solon,

What does "turning the country over to the people" mean specifically? I agree that there has been a concentration of power in Washington, on Wall Street, Silicon Valley, etc - but what could be done to stop that. I agree with Trump that something needs to be done to sway the balance of power back to the people, but how can this be accomplished?

I know he touched on the "graveyards of rusted out factories" (i.e. bringing back manufacturing) but isn't that more of a fight against automation than it is other countries? We can tax imports as much as we want, but if I own a business and you tell me I can buy a machine for $100k that does the work of 4 people, there is no way I would pass it up.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: acroy on January 20, 2017, 11:13:53 AM
I was excited and proud. All that talk about turning the country over to the people reminded me why I like him. If he can deliver on the themes of his speech, it really will be a great country again.
+1
I just read the speech, great stuff.
4th estate is losing it, hilarious to watch. Fantastic entertainment.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Pigeon on January 20, 2017, 11:16:03 AM
Disgusted and horrified.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: cj25 on January 20, 2017, 11:22:42 AM
We can tax imports as much as we want, but if I own a business and you tell me I can buy a machine for $100k that does the work of 4 people, there is no way I would pass it up.

This is what I don't understand.  The liberals cry "greater good" about everything.  I should give up my money for redistribution of wealth, I should take lesser health benefits so everyone can have some, I should inject myself with toxic poisons for the safety of everyone else, etc, etc, etc...  Why doesn't keeping people employed even if means you have to be less greedy, fall into the same category?
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Kris on January 20, 2017, 11:23:22 AM
I was excited and proud. All that talk about turning the country over to the people reminded me why I like him. If he can deliver on the themes of his speech, it really will be a great country again.
+1
I just read the speech, great stuff.


Yeah, he's good at the bread and circus stuff.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Cwadda on January 20, 2017, 11:24:07 AM
I didn't think my first time listening to a sermon in 10 years would be at an inauguration. Heavens, this is so religious.

Religion has always been intertwined in the fabric of the country. Has always been, won't end here.

I was surprised and a little annoyed at how intertwined it is, even in this day and age.  We are supposed to have separation of church and state, but in fact the state is heavily biased toward not just faith in general, but specifically Christianity.

Which aspects of the speech/ceremony did you think were heavily biased towards Christianity? Although I'm assuming you were still on the topic of the inauguration and not completely generally speaking.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: FIreDrill on January 20, 2017, 11:35:17 AM
My feeling in general.... Bleh/Whatever...


Felt like I was watching the trailer for Designated Survivor....
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: dougules on January 20, 2017, 11:38:46 AM
Apprehensive needs to be on their, too. 
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Cwadda on January 20, 2017, 11:40:30 AM
I didn't think my first time listening to a sermon in 10 years would be at an inauguration. Heavens, this is so religious.

Religion has always been intertwined in the fabric of the country. Has always been, won't end here.

I was surprised and a little annoyed at how intertwined it is, even in this day and age.  We are supposed to have separation of church and state, but in fact the state is heavily biased toward not just faith in general, but specifically Christianity.
And I don't think we've ever had such a heavily Evangelical Christian cabinet in modern times. Makes me fear so many potential changes l

It's a shame because Evangelical Christian facets woven into the government aren't even representative of Christianity.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: vern on January 20, 2017, 11:44:41 AM
Euphoria.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: scantee on January 20, 2017, 11:53:18 AM
Embarrassed.

Many people like being conned, as long as their conman of choice is providing comfort to their insecurities.

In the end this populist rhetoric is words and nothing more, a sleight of hand to turn the masses against one another so that he can achieve his real goal to further concentrate power and enrich the already wealthy.


Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 20, 2017, 12:18:18 PM
We can tax imports as much as we want, but if I own a business and you tell me I can buy a machine for $100k that does the work of 4 people, there is no way I would pass it up.

This is what I don't understand.  The liberals cry "greater good" about everything.  I should give up my money for redistribution of wealth, I should take lesser health benefits so everyone can have some, I should inject myself with toxic poisons for the safety of everyone else, etc, etc, etc...  Why doesn't keeping people employed even if means you have to be less greedy, fall into the same category?
While people should pay higher prices for things like health insurance so others can benefit, paying higher prices for food and goods such as I phones and cars so that others can have a living wage is apparently bad...
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Unique User on January 20, 2017, 12:21:35 PM
Embarrassed that so many people in our country were taken in by an avaricious con man.  Hopeful that the worst he does is transfer a bunch of taxpayer dollars into his own pocket.  Amused by the people that believe that a man who has never done anything to help anyone other than himself for 70 years will actually do anything for anyone in this country unless there is an upside for himself.  Pained that him and his crowd of bigoted idiots represent me now. 
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Kris on January 20, 2017, 12:26:52 PM
Embarrassed that so many people in our country were taken in by an avaricious con man.  Hopeful that the worst he does is transfer a bunch of taxpayer dollars into his own pocket.  Amused by the people that believe that a man who has never done anything to help anyone other than himself for 70 years will actually do anything for anyone in this country unless there is an upside for himself.

This is me, too. And disappointed in my fellow Americans. I thought we were better than this. I honestly did.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: calimom on January 20, 2017, 12:36:53 PM
Embarrassed that so many people in our country were taken in by an avaricious con man.  Hopeful that the worst he does is transfer a bunch of taxpayer dollars into his own pocket.  Amused by the people that believe that a man who has never done anything to help anyone other than himself for 70 years will actually do anything for anyone in this country unless there is an upside for himself.  Pained that him and his crowd of bigoted idiots represent me now.

Pretty much this. And it's curious that people who identify as christian chose as their leader someone who gleefully works his way through breaking the 10 Commandments.Oy.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Malloy on January 20, 2017, 12:38:25 PM
We can tax imports as much as we want, but if I own a business and you tell me I can buy a machine for $100k that does the work of 4 people, there is no way I would pass it up.

This is what I don't understand.  The liberals cry "greater good" about everything.  I should give up my money for redistribution of wealth, I should take lesser health benefits so everyone can have some, I should inject myself with toxic poisons for the safety of everyone else, etc, etc, etc...  Why doesn't keeping people employed even if means you have to be less greedy, fall into the same category?
While people should pay higher prices for things like health insurance so others can benefit, paying higher prices for food and goods such as I phones and cars so that others can have a living wage is apparently bad...

That was the part that stuck out to you?  For me it was the bolded. HELL YES you should get vaccinated for the good of everyone else as well as yourself.  I firmly believe this, science is on my side, and I don't think that this is a uniquely liberal viewpoint. 

I personally feel astonished that 50 years after the GOP led communist blacklists, the Republicans have built the thing they most wanted to destroy: they have elected a man who wants us to cozy up to a former KGB operative.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: waltworks on January 20, 2017, 12:40:04 PM
I guess I'm psyched for my rich guy tax cut!

Maybe it'll trickle down and I'll go on vacation more or something. More likely I'll stick it all in index funds like I always do.

Good luck, America!

-W
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: HPstache on January 20, 2017, 12:47:19 PM
Feeling mostly excited... but a bit skeptical.  So I guess I am in general 'hopeful' that Trump is able to accomplish what he thinks he can.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 20, 2017, 12:50:21 PM
disappointed in my fellow Americans. I thought we were better than this. I honestly did.

Just try to remember that we WERE better than this, by about three million voters. 
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 20, 2017, 12:50:39 PM
The speech: He sounded like Bill Pullman in Independence Day.
  this thought made me smile. Thank you. :)
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Paul der Krake on January 20, 2017, 12:55:43 PM
I am sorry to see the Obamas go. I may not see eye to eye on all of his policies, but I have he has comported himself in a very dignified manner and held the office to a very high standard.

I think history will judge him well.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 20, 2017, 12:57:48 PM
The speech: He sounded like Bill Pullman in Independence Day.
  this thought made me smile. Thank you. :)

Because you want America to kill a bunch of aliens? 
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 20, 2017, 01:00:17 PM
The speech: He sounded like Bill Pullman in Independence Day.
  this thought made me smile. Thank you. :)

Because you want America to kill a bunch of aliens?
Only if they attack us first.

Edit: i think i would ultimately accept large numbers of exterterstrial casualties in any situation where the outcome was "us or them"
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 20, 2017, 01:03:10 PM
The speech: He sounded like Bill Pullman in Independence Day.
  this thought made me smile. Thank you. :)

Because you want America to kill a bunch of aliens?
Only if they attack us first.

Do you consider hanging out in front of Home Depot looking for work to be an attack?
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: GuitarStv on January 20, 2017, 01:11:38 PM
The speech: He sounded like Bill Pullman in Independence Day.
  this thought made me smile. Thank you. :)

Because you want America to kill a bunch of aliens?
Only if they attack us first.

Do you consider hanging out in front of Home Depot looking for work to be an attack?

Alright, you alien assholes. In the words of my generation...UP YOURS!
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: infogoon on January 20, 2017, 01:15:59 PM
I took a break from work to watch President Trump's inauguration speech. It was even worse than I expected. It was like a late-night infomercial "greatest hits" compilation of the applause lines from his rallies.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: scantee on January 20, 2017, 01:16:18 PM
The speech: He sounded like Bill Pullman in Independence Day.
  this thought made me smile. Thank you. :)

Because you want America to kill a bunch of aliens?
Only if they attack us first.

Do you consider hanging out in front of Home Depot looking for work to be an attack?

Well-played.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Philociraptor on January 20, 2017, 01:19:24 PM
I didn't think my first time listening to a sermon in 10 years would be at an inauguration. Heavens, this is so religious.

Religion has always been intertwined in the fabric of the country. Has always been, won't end here.

I was surprised and a little annoyed at how intertwined it is, even in this day and age.  We are supposed to have separation of church and state, but in fact the state is heavily biased toward not just faith in general, but specifically Christianity.

Seriously this. Did we really need 6 different people to preach to the entire country? I'm a bit disgusted.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: KBecks on January 20, 2017, 01:30:36 PM
Seriously this. Did we really need 6 different people to preach to the entire country? I'm a bit disgusted.

There was a lot of prayer.  I found it very interesting, and in a way, great.  God Bless America.  People can still pray, hooray!

The choirs were both outstanding, btw.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: scantee on January 20, 2017, 01:37:10 PM
Seriously this. Did we really need 6 different people to preach to the entire country? I'm a bit disgusted.

There was a lot of prayer.  I found it very interesting, and in a way, great.  God Bless America.  People can still pray, hooray!

The choirs were both outstanding, btw.


Unlike the Obama years, when praying was outlawed.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 20, 2017, 01:47:52 PM
The speech: He sounded like Bill Pullman in Independence Day.

Sounds more like Tom Hardy in The Dark Knight Rises.

Compare for yourself:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OWDNbWIW4U

It's even better if you watch the full scenes.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: MDM on January 20, 2017, 02:27:49 PM
Protesters breaking windows and setting cars on fire are more likely to cause an "if those are Trump's enemies, maybe he isn't so bad" reaction than advance their cause.

Of course, conspiracy advocates will propose that Trump supporters are doing this, just to get the above reaction. ;)
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: scantee on January 20, 2017, 02:28:51 PM
Seriously this. Did we really need 6 different people to preach to the entire country? I'm a bit disgusted.

There was a lot of prayer.  I found it very interesting, and in a way, great.  God Bless America.  People can still pray, hooray!

The choirs were both outstanding, btw.


Unlike the Obama years, when praying was outlawed.

I'm not for outlawing prayer, it's free speech like any other.  I do think we can, should and will eventually strip it from our government.  It may take another 200 years, but it will happen.

Religion was historically used to legitimize and give power to governments.  We don't obey the laws of our government because it has the full backing of God anymore, so I don't see the purpose.

I can tolerate a quick blessing or using the bible to swear in as it's historical/traditional, but the quantity of it was off-putting for me.  The number of preachers and the total time it took to say their piece seemed longer than the inaugural address!



I mostly agree.

I found it darkly funny that Trump, the living embodiment of the seven deadly sins, had an inauguration with so many preachers espousing a viewpoint of morality that the man himself clearly has no interest in.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 20, 2017, 02:37:42 PM
I found it darkly funny that Trump, the living embodiment of the seven deadly sins, had an inauguration with so many preachers espousing a viewpoint of morality that the man himself clearly has no interest in.

I didn't watch the inauguration, but I figure if he managed to not grab anybody by the pussy then it was probably considered a success.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Midwest on January 20, 2017, 02:57:32 PM
I'm glad we have had a (mostly) peaceful transfer of power.  Regardless of whether you like the person in office, peaceful transition of power is one of the things that makes our country great. 

To the above poster, Trump's newfound religion is ironic to me as well.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Chris22 on January 20, 2017, 03:25:25 PM
Cautiously optimistic, but not overly hopeful.

Glad that Hillary was not getting sworn in, but not thrilled we got the second worst possible person in there.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: GuitarStv on January 20, 2017, 03:28:07 PM
I'm glad we have had a (mostly) peaceful transfer of power.  Regardless of whether you like the person in office, peaceful transition of power is one of the things that makes our country great. 

To the above poster, Trump's newfound religion is ironic to me as well.

Trump's a long time protestant (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/politics/donald-trump-church-member/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/politics/donald-trump-church-member/)).  Interesting that he didn't have any protestant church leaders among the six people representing various Christian organizations there though.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Scandium on January 20, 2017, 03:44:57 PM


I'm glad we have had a (mostly) peaceful transfer of power. 

... This time...
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: scantee on January 20, 2017, 03:48:44 PM
I'm glad we have had a (mostly) peaceful transfer of power.  Regardless of whether you like the person in office, peaceful transition of power is one of the things that makes our country great.

To the above poster, Trump's newfound religion is ironic to me as well.

All of the other democratic nations in the world manage to do this without acting as if it is some sort a major accomplishment.

Soft bigotry of low expectations....yadda, yadda, yadda.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Midwest on January 20, 2017, 03:57:19 PM
I'm glad we have had a (mostly) peaceful transfer of power.  Regardless of whether you like the person in office, peaceful transition of power is one of the things that makes our country great.

To the above poster, Trump's newfound religion is ironic to me as well.

All of the other democratic nations in the world manage to do this without acting as if it is some sort a major accomplishment.

Soft bigotry of low expectations....yadda, yadda, yadda.

Wasn't aware being grateful for the peaceful transition of power was controversial.  I was equally happy when President Obama came to power peacefully despite the fact that I didn't vote for him.

This article https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-poses-an-unprecedented-threat-to-the-peaceful-transition-of-power/2016/10/17/f97f8f82-947f-11e6-bb29-bf2701dbe0a3_story.html?utm_term=.454a5954c409is is quite critical of Trump, but makes the excellent point that we take peaceful transition for granted.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Midwest on January 20, 2017, 04:00:00 PM
I'm glad we have had a (mostly) peaceful transfer of power.  Regardless of whether you like the person in office, peaceful transition of power is one of the things that makes our country great. 

To the above poster, Trump's newfound religion is ironic to me as well.

Trump's a long time protestant (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/politics/donald-trump-church-member/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/politics/donald-trump-church-member/)).  Interesting that he didn't have any protestant church leaders among the six people representing various Christian organizations there though.

He may be a long time protestant, but many of his actions aren't within his religion.  I know, everybody sins etc, but his religious awakening may have had something to do with running for office.  I say this as someone who thought he was the lesser of 2 evils.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: scantee on January 20, 2017, 04:12:25 PM
I was watching the inauguration on NBC because, to borrow a phrase from someone on Facebook today, I'm a "libtard."  Right afterwards, they were interviewing two Trump supporters who had driven to the event from Pittsburgh.  One of the women said that what stood out to her was that Trump made reference to God in his speech.  She hadn't heard that done in a long time, not from someone in the Whitehouse. 

Anyway, that's fairly shocking since I probably saw 5 clips just this weekend in which Obama made reference to God in a speech or in remarks.  For Fukksake, he sang "Amazing Grace" at a funeral.  What did they think he was singing about?

It's evident that there are 2 completely separate realities for different parts of this country - two different sets of facts.  And because of social media, this problem is only going to get worse and worse.  And given these 2 separate truths, it shouldn't be surprising that Trump basically said nothing good happened in the last 8 years.  I mean, really???  Not marriage equality?  Not saving the auto industry?  Not saving the economy from a great depression?  Nothing?



It is especially rich coming from people, including members of this here forum on financial independence, who reaped huge personal benefits from the economy over the past eight years (namely, the tripling of the stock market) to be complaining about how terrible things were under Obama's leadership.

Some serious cognitive dissonance going on here.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 20, 2017, 04:14:04 PM
And given these 2 separate truths, it shouldn't be surprising that Trump basically said nothing good happened in the last 8 years.  I mean, really???  Not marriage equality?  Not saving the auto industry?  Not saving the economy from a great depression?  Nothing?

Don't worry, all sorts of amazing things are about to happen.   I bet unemployment is down under 5% (https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000) within Trump's first week!
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: GuitarStv on January 20, 2017, 05:10:02 PM
I'm glad we have had a (mostly) peaceful transfer of power.  Regardless of whether you like the person in office, peaceful transition of power is one of the things that makes our country great. 

To the above poster, Trump's newfound religion is ironic to me as well.

Trump's a long time protestant (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/politics/donald-trump-church-member/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/politics/donald-trump-church-member/)).  Interesting that he didn't have any protestant church leaders among the six people representing various Christian organizations there though.

He may be a long time protestant, but many of his actions aren't within his religion.  I know, everybody sins etc, but his religious awakening may have had something to do with running for office.  I say this as someone who thought he was the lesser of 2 evils.

Meh.  I just can't get all that worked up about Trump doing stuff that doesn't match with his claimed religion.  Jesus was the original communist . . . yet Christianity in the US seems to be A-OK with capitalism.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 20, 2017, 07:23:03 PM
I was watching the inauguration on NBC because, to borrow a phrase from someone on Facebook today, I'm a "libtard."  Right afterwards, they were interviewing two Trump supporters who had driven to the event from Pittsburgh.  One of the women said that what stood out to her was that Trump made reference to God in his speech.  She hadn't heard that done in a long time, not from someone in the Whitehouse. 

Anyway, that's fairly shocking since I probably saw 5 clips just this weekend in which Obama made reference to God in a speech or in remarks.  For Fukksake, he sang "Amazing Grace" at a funeral.  What did they think he was singing about?

It's evident that there are 2 completely separate realities for different parts of this country - two different sets of facts.  And because of social media, this problem is only going to get worse and worse.  And given these 2 separate truths, it shouldn't be surprising that Trump basically said nothing good happened in the last 8 years.  I mean, really???  Not marriage equality?  Not saving the auto industry?  Not saving the economy from a great depression?  Nothing?



It is especially rich coming from people, including members of this here forum on financial independence, who reaped huge personal benefits from the economy over the past eight years (namely, the tripling of the stock market) to be complaining about how terrible things were under Obama's leadership.

Some serious cognitive dissonance going on here.

Some of us are concerned sbout the terrible stuff that has happened to other people, irrespective of how much better things have gotten better for rich white people under Obama.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: oldtoyota on January 20, 2017, 07:28:26 PM
We can tax imports as much as we want, but if I own a business and you tell me I can buy a machine for $100k that does the work of 4 people, there is no way I would pass it up.

This is what I don't understand.  The liberals cry "greater good" about everything.  I should give up my money for redistribution of wealth, I should take lesser health benefits so everyone can have some, I should inject myself with toxic poisons for the safety of everyone else, etc, etc, etc...  Why doesn't keeping people employed even if means you have to be less greedy, fall into the same category?

You lost me at "the liberals." Sounds like FOX News.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: oldtoyota on January 20, 2017, 07:30:16 PM
I found it darkly funny that Trump, the living embodiment of the seven deadly sins, had an inauguration with so many preachers espousing a viewpoint of morality that the man himself clearly has no interest in.

I didn't watch the inauguration, but I figure if he managed to not grab anybody by the pussy then it was probably considered a success.

I second this. And the speech was bad so we know he didn't plagiarize Obama.

Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: scantee on January 20, 2017, 09:03:12 PM
I was watching the inauguration on NBC because, to borrow a phrase from someone on Facebook today, I'm a "libtard."  Right afterwards, they were interviewing two Trump supporters who had driven to the event from Pittsburgh.  One of the women said that what stood out to her was that Trump made reference to God in his speech.  She hadn't heard that done in a long time, not from someone in the Whitehouse. 

Anyway, that's fairly shocking since I probably saw 5 clips just this weekend in which Obama made reference to God in a speech or in remarks.  For Fukksake, he sang "Amazing Grace" at a funeral.  What did they think he was singing about?

It's evident that there are 2 completely separate realities for different parts of this country - two different sets of facts.  And because of social media, this problem is only going to get worse and worse.  And given these 2 separate truths, it shouldn't be surprising that Trump basically said nothing good happened in the last 8 years.  I mean, really???  Not marriage equality?  Not saving the auto industry?  Not saving the economy from a great depression?  Nothing?



It is especially rich coming from people, including members of this here forum on financial independence, who reaped huge personal benefits from the economy over the past eight years (namely, the tripling of the stock market) to be complaining about how terrible things were under Obama's leadership.

Some serious cognitive dissonance going on here.

Some of us are concerned sbout the terrible stuff that has happened to other people, irrespective of how much better things have gotten better for rich white people under Obama.

"Terrible stuff".

Gay people being allowed to marry? Health care for more people? It can't be deindustrialization and loss of working class jobs, since those changes began in the 70's.

But yes, certainly Trump, builder of walls to keep out Mexicans, keeper of lists to kick out Muslims, restrictor of who can use which bathroom, will make things better for the non-white non-
rich...
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: KatieSSS on January 20, 2017, 09:15:41 PM
Disgusted, to say the least.

My bar is set so low for the new Pres that I just have one metric to measure his success: that we don't get nuked. I live in DC.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: marty998 on January 20, 2017, 11:54:15 PM
I was watching the inauguration on NBC because, to borrow a phrase from someone on Facebook today, I'm a "libtard."  Right afterwards, they were interviewing two Trump supporters who had driven to the event from Pittsburgh.  One of the women said that what stood out to her was that Trump made reference to God in his speech.  She hadn't heard that done in a long time, not from someone in the Whitehouse. 

Anyway, that's fairly shocking since I probably saw 5 clips just this weekend in which Obama made reference to God in a speech or in remarks.  For Fukksake, he sang "Amazing Grace" at a funeral.  What did they think he was singing about?

It's evident that there are 2 completely separate realities for different parts of this country - two different sets of facts.  And because of social media, this problem is only going to get worse and worse.  And given these 2 separate truths, it shouldn't be surprising that Trump basically said nothing good happened in the last 8 years.  I mean, really???  Not marriage equality?  Not saving the auto industry?  Not saving the economy from a great depression?  Nothing?



It is especially rich coming from people, including members of this here forum on financial independence, who reaped huge personal benefits from the economy over the past eight years (namely, the tripling of the stock market) to be complaining about how terrible things were under Obama's leadership.

Some serious cognitive dissonance going on here.

This graph was interesting. The commie socialist liberal presidents! How dare they make the stockmarket go up so much!
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Indio on January 21, 2017, 05:52:20 AM
I tried a news blackout yesterday and spent the morning walking at the beach. Too many news email alerts made a blackout impossible.

Later on I stumbled across this little nugget that is a petition to have Potus release tax returns. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/immediately-release-donald-trumps-full-tax-returns-all-information-needed-verify-emoluments-clause-compliance

He doesn't follow any rules so not sure it will make a difference. And if it did, what would happen? Lead to impeachment where we are left with Mike pence? We know what he stands for.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: KBecks on January 21, 2017, 06:02:17 AM
It was interesting in many ways -- I don't think I've watched an inauguration before, so this is new:

-- the amount of music with two choirs and the band, etc.
-- the amount of prayer with 3 invocations and 3 or 4 blessings
It had a very heavy ceremonial feel to it.  A coronation, no, but a very heavy state ceremony.

and the speech
-- talking about failing education
-- all the talk of America first and protectionism
-- talking about addressing and fixing crime
-- talking about destroying radical Islamic terrorism
-- talking about destiny of American greatness and God's protection of the United States
-- promising unfailing work for the people

It was very specific and very interesting.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Mezzie on January 21, 2017, 06:48:34 AM
I would love to see the education system "flush with cash" he mentioned. We struggle to get basic services and materials.

As far as how I feel: I put scared, but anxious would be more accurate. Having a climate change denier at the helm, a pro-privitization education secretary, completely unqualified people with conflicts of interest in the cabinet... Ugh. I feel ill.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 21, 2017, 06:59:17 AM


"Terrible stuff".

Gay people being allowed to marry? Health care for more people? It can't be deindustrialization and loss of working class jobs, since those changes began in the 70's.

But yes, certainly Trump, builder of walls to keep out Mexicans, keeper of lists to kick out Muslims, restrictor of who can use which bathroom, will make things better for the non-white non-
rich...

I'm not sure what Obama's failings have to do with Trump... or that he is as concerned with what bathroom people use as others are. Maybe he is.

The point being that some of us are willing to vote against our own interests to try to help those who are less fortunate than ourselves. The fact that certain demographics have seen improvements in some areas in the past 8 years does not remove the fact that situations have degraded for others.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: KBecks on January 21, 2017, 07:30:54 AM
I would love to see the education system "flush with cash" he mentioned. We struggle to get basic services and materials.

As far as how I feel: I put scared, but anxious would be more accurate. Having a climate change denier at the helm, a pro-privitization education secretary, completely unqualified people with conflicts of interest in the cabinet... Ugh. I feel ill.

Do you know the funding per student in your area? Our state is around $12,000 per student.  For a classroom of 28 students, that's $336,000. 

If you are struggling to get basics, take a look at how many high level adminisrtators are in your district that are taking salary, health and benefits at the district level an away from the classroom learning.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: waltworks on January 21, 2017, 09:03:51 AM
I would love to see the education system "flush with cash" he mentioned. We struggle to get basic services and materials.

As far as how I feel: I put scared, but anxious would be more accurate. Having a climate change denier at the helm, a pro-privitization education secretary, completely unqualified people with conflicts of interest in the cabinet... Ugh. I feel ill.

Do you know the funding per student in your area? Our state is around $12,000 per student.  For a classroom of 28 students, that's $336,000. 

If you are struggling to get basics, take a look at how many high level adminisrtators are in your district that are taking salary, health and benefits at the district level an away from the classroom learning.

That is not very much when you have to:
-Maintain a tens of millions of dollar, 100,000+ square foot public building with associated parking, playground, etc. You have  to heat and sometimes cool this building, which may or may not be especially efficient (it might well have been built 50+ years ago).
-Keep small children safe and secure.
-Bus small children to/from school safely.
-Provide extra services to students with learning or other disabilities (including basic medical care) as well as students with extra talents.
-Provide enrichment activities like art, PE, music.
-Maintain a basic library for children and stock it with books/staff it with a librarian.
-Hire reliable, intelligent, caring teachers and provide them with health care.
-Etc, etc.

Administrative salaries are a tiny fraction of the school district's budget (at least here in UT). Could you cut back on administrators? Maybe, maybe not. It wouldn't matter much if you did. Anyone who has run or dealt with budgets for a large organization understands that the headline cost (or per-person cost) is going to seem huge until you break it down - and then it will seem like barely enough.

As an aside, our district's biggest problem? Health care spending. Double digit increases in benefits costs over the last 15 years or so (before AND during the ACA) have pushed benefits costs to almost 1/4 of the total budget. They will eat the school alive if they continue to climb.

-W
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: packlawyer04 on January 21, 2017, 10:22:48 AM
Embarrassed that so many people in our country were taken in by an avaricious con man.  Hopeful that the worst he does is transfer a bunch of taxpayer dollars into his own pocket.  Amused by the people that believe that a man who has never done anything to help anyone other than himself for 70 years will actually do anything for anyone in this country unless there is an upside for himself.  Pained that him and his crowd of bigoted idiots represent me now.

Keep calling people that don't agree with you bigoted. You'll get 8 years of Trump.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: packlawyer04 on January 21, 2017, 10:27:17 AM
I was watching the inauguration on NBC because, to borrow a phrase from someone on Facebook today, I'm a "libtard."  Right afterwards, they were interviewing two Trump supporters who had driven to the event from Pittsburgh.  One of the women said that what stood out to her was that Trump made reference to God in his speech.  She hadn't heard that done in a long time, not from someone in the Whitehouse. 

Anyway, that's fairly shocking since I probably saw 5 clips just this weekend in which Obama made reference to God in a speech or in remarks.  For Fukksake, he sang "Amazing Grace" at a funeral.  What did they think he was singing about?

It's evident that there are 2 completely separate realities for different parts of this country - two different sets of facts.  And because of social media, this problem is only going to get worse and worse.  And given these 2 separate truths, it shouldn't be surprising that Trump basically said nothing good happened in the last 8 years.  I mean, really???  Not marriage equality?  Not saving the auto industry?  Not saving the economy from a great depression?  Nothing?



It is especially rich coming from people, including members of this here forum on financial independence, who reaped huge personal benefits from the economy over the past eight years (namely, the tripling of the stock market) to be complaining about how terrible things were under Obama's leadership.

Some serious cognitive dissonance going on here.

If you can point me to what Obama did to help out all of these publicly traded companies increase profits and grow their companies I would love to read it. 

I'm shocked, shocked shocked I tell you that the U.S. Stock market rebounded after a pull back. This has never happened before in the history of the stock market. Not sure what we will do know that Obama has left. I'm predicting the stock market disapears in 6 months.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Midwest on January 21, 2017, 10:27:41 AM
I'm glad we have had a (mostly) peaceful transfer of power.  Regardless of whether you like the person in office, peaceful transition of power is one of the things that makes our country great. 

To the above poster, Trump's newfound religion is ironic to me as well.

Trump's a long time protestant (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/politics/donald-trump-church-member/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/politics/donald-trump-church-member/)).  Interesting that he didn't have any protestant church leaders among the six people representing various Christian organizations there though.

He may be a long time protestant, but many of his actions aren't within his religion.  I know, everybody sins etc, but his religious awakening may have had something to do with running for office.  I say this as someone who thought he was the lesser of 2 evils.

Meh.  I just can't get all that worked up about Trump doing stuff that doesn't match with his claimed religion.  Jesus was the original communist . . . yet Christianity in the US seems to be A-OK with capitalism.

I"m not a religious scholar, but most mainstream religions don't advocate adultery or genital grabbing.  The comments regarding his religious awakening were not a criticism specific to Trump as many politicians overstate the value of religion in their lives.   
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 21, 2017, 10:58:28 AM
Embarrassed that so many people in our country were taken in by an avaricious con man.  Hopeful that the worst he does is transfer a bunch of taxpayer dollars into his own pocket.  Amused by the people that believe that a man who has never done anything to help anyone other than himself for 70 years will actually do anything for anyone in this country unless there is an upside for himself.  Pained that him and his crowd of bigoted idiots represent me now.

Keep calling people that don't agree with you bigoted. You'll get 8 years of Trump.
Moral of the story: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: GuitarStv on January 21, 2017, 02:03:45 PM
Embarrassed that so many people in our country were taken in by an avaricious con man.  Hopeful that the worst he does is transfer a bunch of taxpayer dollars into his own pocket.  Amused by the people that believe that a man who has never done anything to help anyone other than himself for 70 years will actually do anything for anyone in this country unless there is an upside for himself.  Pained that him and his crowd of bigoted idiots represent me now.

Keep calling people that don't agree with you bigoted. You'll get 8 years of Trump.
Moral of the story: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Alternatively:  Supporters of bigots will continue to support bigots out of spite until people stop calling their support bigotry.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: MDM on January 21, 2017, 02:16:50 PM
It's too bad that half the people in the US might not believe Trump when he said
"When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.
The bible tells us how good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity. We must speak our minds openly, debate our disagreements honestly, but always pursue solidarity."

Of course, the other half wouldn't have believed Obama had he said exactly the same thing.

Many presidents govern differently than they campaigned.  Time will tell....
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: seattlecyclone on January 21, 2017, 02:33:37 PM
I didn't feel much different after the inauguration. It's an event we've been expecting for about ten weeks now. It happened, the sun rose the next day, life goes on. Let's make the most of it.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Kris on January 21, 2017, 03:26:03 PM
It's too bad that half the people in the US might not believe Trump when he said
"When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.
The bible tells us how good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity. We must speak our minds openly, debate our disagreements honestly, but always pursue solidarity."

Of course, the other half wouldn't have believed Obama had he said exactly the same thing.

Many presidents govern differently than they campaigned.  Time will tell....


How could anyone believe Trump's words here, when his actions before and after the election show the opposite?
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: MacGyverIt on January 21, 2017, 03:30:45 PM
Trump's a long time protestant (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/politics/donald-trump-church-member/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/politics/donald-trump-church-member/)).  Interesting that he didn't have any protestant church leaders among the six people representing various Christian organizations there though.

Based upon his actions - as well as words - I'd submit that Trump is his own religion.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: MDM on January 21, 2017, 03:37:49 PM
It's too bad that half the people in the US might not believe Trump when he said
"When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.
The bible tells us how good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity. We must speak our minds openly, debate our disagreements honestly, but always pursue solidarity."

Of course, the other half wouldn't have believed Obama had he said exactly the same thing.

Many presidents govern differently than they campaigned.  Time will tell....
How could anyone believe Trump's words here, when his actions before and after the election show the opposite?
The realities of governing will likely come into play.  I prefer to remain optimistic. 

Will his and his appointees' actual policies and their implementation differ from what Obama did and Clinton would have done?  Likely.

Will he and his appointees politicize the various federal bureaucracies any more than Obama did or Clinton would have done?  Unlikely.

Will the results of his and his appointees' actual policies and their implementation be favorable or unfavorable?  Time will tell.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Drifterrider on January 21, 2017, 03:59:03 PM
Didn't watch.  Read the transcript of the speech.  Sounds like something Roosevelt would have said (I said Trump was a Democrat).

The sky didn't fall.  The world didn't end.  Markets didn't collapse. 

Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: lost_in_the_endless_aisle on January 21, 2017, 08:52:53 PM
We can tax imports as much as we want, but if I own a business and you tell me I can buy a machine for $100k that does the work of 4 people, there is no way I would pass it up.

This is what I don't understand.  The liberals cry "greater good" about everything.  I should give up my money for redistribution of wealth, I should take lesser health benefits so everyone can have some, I should inject myself with toxic poisons for the safety of everyone else, etc, etc, etc...  Why doesn't keeping people employed even if means you have to be less greedy, fall into the same category?
While people should pay higher prices for things like health insurance so others can benefit, paying higher prices for food and goods such as I phones and cars so that others can have a living wage is apparently bad...
The value added in China is 2% of the value of an iphone. Most of the value of the product is a result of design and engineering, rather than assembly.

The US already has direct and indirect incentives to manufacture cars in the US (NAFTA effectively reduced some of these incentives but even the biased highly motivated EPI estimated just 700K net(?) job losses to Mexico as a result of the FTA since inception.

MIT economist David Autor has published extensively on labor market trends and has concluded 80% of manufacturing job losses in the US are attributable to technology, with the remaining 20% due to trade. Perhaps a better strategy than renegotiating NAFTA, whatever that means, would be to destroy productive capital and imprison industrial engineers.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: lost_in_the_endless_aisle on January 21, 2017, 09:04:30 PM
Regarding the inauguration in general, some key moments:

1) as mentioned previously, Trump quoting Bane verbatim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNgwOkpiEtM

2) Trump caught once gain with scotch tape holding his (extra long) tie together
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-tie-inauguration-scotch-tape_us_58837f78e4b0e3a735693611

3) First assassination attempt, MSU style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmsiU5P1Mik

As much of fan of his that I'm not, it's always good to reflect on the underlying strength of our institutions during the transition
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Unique User on January 22, 2017, 08:14:09 AM
Embarrassed that so many people in our country were taken in by an avaricious con man.  Hopeful that the worst he does is transfer a bunch of taxpayer dollars into his own pocket.  Amused by the people that believe that a man who has never done anything to help anyone other than himself for 70 years will actually do anything for anyone in this country unless there is an upside for himself.  Pained that him and his crowd of bigoted idiots represent me now.

Keep calling people that don't agree with you bigoted. You'll get 8 years of Trump.

Perhaps I should have been very clear who I meant - I meant Trump, Pence, Bannon, Sessions, etc.  They are bigots and not because they don't agree with me.  Pretty broad assumption to make of my comment. 

Definition of bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: purple monkey on January 22, 2017, 08:19:22 AM
Scared, as his NPD will be carnage for us and hurt other countries from our poor example.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: oldtoyota on January 22, 2017, 10:14:09 AM
I was excited and proud. All that talk about turning the country over to the people reminded me why I like him. If he can deliver on the themes of his speech, it really will be a great country again.
+1
I just read the speech, great stuff.


Yeah, he's good at the bread and circus stuff.

The talk about the people sounds good, but his actions say otherwise.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: FIREGuy on January 22, 2017, 10:48:36 AM
We can tax imports as much as we want, but if I own a business and you tell me I can buy a machine for $100k that does the work of 4 people, there is no way I would pass it up.

This is what I don't understand.  The liberals cry "greater good" about everything.  I should give up my money for redistribution of wealth, I should take lesser health benefits so everyone can have some, I should inject myself with toxic poisons for the safety of everyone else, etc, etc, etc...  Why doesn't keeping people employed even if means you have to be less greedy, fall into the same category?

It's not (entirely) a question of greed, it's about being efficient. The free market will encourage efficiency and as automation continues, this will take more and more jobs. I'm all for becoming more efficient and effective, but there needs to be a safety net to combat against those who are replaced by robots otherwise those who own the machines will continue to reap the benefits whole those who do not will be left behind.

The economy is changing, and I believe that in order to combat inequality and the unrest that it brings, the government needs to become a bit more socialist.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: calimom on January 22, 2017, 10:57:29 AM
.
--
-- talking about destiny of American greatness and God's protection of the United States
--



Does this God person only look after the interests of those living in the United States?
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 22, 2017, 11:06:33 AM
.
--
-- talking about destiny of American greatness and God's protection of the United States
--



Does this God person only look after the interests of those living in the United States?

Throughout American history, politicians have claimed a unique and divine preference for our country.  God wanted us to eradicate the Indians.  God supported our manifest destiny.  God supported our right to own slaves.  God was on our side in the world wars. 

It's not unique to America as a phenomenon, as basically every country has at some point claimed their divine right, we're just really good at it because our population is so easily duped by this particular brand of horseshit.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Dub_the_Builder on January 22, 2017, 11:40:00 AM
I didn't think my first time listening to a sermon in 10 years would be at an inauguration. Heavens, this is so religious.

Religion has always been intertwined in the fabric of the country. Has always been, won't end here.

I was surprised and a little annoyed at how intertwined it is, even in this day and age.  We are supposed to have separation of church and state, but in fact the state is heavily biased toward not just faith in general, but specifically Christianity.

My response to seperation of church and state is to show me where it exactly says that in the constitution. 1st amendment states thats the government cannot make any laws mandating the religion of an individual. The government shall not force one set of beliefs on its citizens. It does not say that an elected official cannot be influenced by their belief system. I respect the choice each individual makes with regards to their belief system. If I were to ever run for office my beliefs would heavily influence my decision making, but so would the constitution and bill of rights.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: WootWoot on January 22, 2017, 12:22:04 PM
Quite frankly, I cried. I was in a doctor's waiting room on Friday, when Obama spoke as President for the last time. I just burst out sobbing. Dried my eyes, blew my nose, and started all over again.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 22, 2017, 12:57:58 PM
Quite frankly, I cried. I was in a doctor's waiting room on Friday, when Obama spoke as President for the last time. I just burst out sobbing. Dried my eyes, blew my nose, and started all over again.

If it makes you feel any better, about 40% of the country is absolutely delighted that you're upset.  They're positively gleeful about it. 
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Johnez on January 22, 2017, 12:59:51 PM


I mostly agree.

I found it darkly funny that Trump, the living embodiment of the seven deadly sins, had an inauguration with so many preachers espousing a viewpoint of morality that the man himself clearly has no interest in.

It's almost like he's overcompensating. Kinda like how he appointed half the military in positions.

Regarding the inaugural address, his usual campaign lines were boring as usual, the Bible talk was interesting. I honestly don't get it, even when I was a pretty hardcore Christian I would have voted against this fake.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: seattlecyclone on January 22, 2017, 01:05:38 PM
I didn't think my first time listening to a sermon in 10 years would be at an inauguration. Heavens, this is so religious.

Religion has always been intertwined in the fabric of the country. Has always been, won't end here.

I was surprised and a little annoyed at how intertwined it is, even in this day and age.  We are supposed to have separation of church and state, but in fact the state is heavily biased toward not just faith in general, but specifically Christianity.

My response to seperation of church and state is to show me where it exactly says that in the constitution. 1st amendment states thats the government cannot make any laws mandating the religion of an individual. The government shall not force one set of beliefs on its citizens. It does not say that an elected official cannot be influenced by their belief system. I respect the choice each individual makes with regards to their belief system. If I were to ever run for office my beliefs would heavily influence my decision making, but so would the constitution and bill of rights.

I really don't want to derail this thread too much, but I just want to say that if the government is not going to support one religion over another, the only plausible way to do that is to separate church and state completely. Note I'm not calling for elected officials to stop believing in their own religion or to avoid relying on its teachings when making decisions. That's all perfectly fine. We're all individuals with our own circumstances that inform our opinions and our actions. What I do object to is things like inviting preachers of only one particular religion to speak at an official event like an inauguration. As someone who doesn't belong to that religion, it's impossible for me to see that as anything other than an official endorsement of that religion above all others. To avoid this perception, you either need to invite leaders of every religion to speak, or invite none of them. I'd prefer none, myself.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: marty998 on January 22, 2017, 01:10:14 PM
Was there a really a White House Spokeswoman out there debating with the media, when presented with the facts and photographs showing the reduced number who turned out for Trump as opposed to Obama she exclaimed "here is an alternative set of facts"???

Post truth world indeed.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: seattlecyclone on January 22, 2017, 01:11:49 PM
Was there a really a White House Spokeswoman out there debating with the media, when presented with the facts and photographs showing the reduced number who turned out for Trump as opposed to Obama she exclaimed "here is an alternative set of facts"???

Post truth world indeed.

Basically, yes. She was being interviewed about the press secretary's lies about the inauguration attendance, and said those lies were simply "alternative facts."
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: lost_in_the_endless_aisle on January 22, 2017, 01:25:29 PM
And then there's the story of the cake:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/food/wp/2017/01/21/trump-had-a-huge-luxurious-inauguration-cake-was-it-plagiarized/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/food/wp/2017/01/21/trump-had-a-huge-luxurious-inauguration-cake-was-it-plagiarized/)

Plagiarized from Obama's cake, and mostly made of styrofoam, it seems an apt metaphor for Trump's candidacy. Style over substance, and his style leaves much to be desired (gold curtains already installed at WH). With Goldman Sachs's alumni executive team being placed in various key appointed positions, the motto going forward will be "let them eat styrofoam".
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 22, 2017, 01:53:16 PM
And then there's the story of the cake:

To be fair, the cake was billed as a "recreation" of Obama's inauguration cake, not a plagiarism.  That makes it all better, right?

side by side photo of cakes:  https://twitter.com/Duff_Goldman/status/822675780341641216/photo/1

this year's cake maker defends it:  https://www.instagram.com/p/BPiBprwF4JP/

the original cake artist calls a truce:  https://twitter.com/Duff_Goldman/status/822858891939590145
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: MDM on January 22, 2017, 05:14:37 PM
Was there a really a White House Spokeswoman out there debating with the media, when presented with the facts and photographs showing the reduced number who turned out for Trump as opposed to Obama she exclaimed "here is an alternative set of facts"???

Post truth world indeed.
Here's what seems a reasonable take on what Spicer claimed: ALTERNATIVE FACTS? The Trump Team’s War On The Media – And Reality | News Corpse (http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=33657).

Pretty clear that Spicer was wrong about the white tarps being used "for the first time."  Could have been an honest mistake - balance that against the mistaken tweet about the MLK bust removal from the oval office and call it a tie so far.

Also seems likely that Obama's first inaugural had more people - no way to know for sure but that's what the preponderance of the evidence suggests (at least to me).

Does anyone know the time each of the crowd pictures shown was taken?  If they were both taken ~12:15 PM, then it seems a fair enough comparison.  I've heard other clips in which a Trump official implies/states the pictures were taken at different times (without specifying when).  Haven't been able to find anything more specific than "...a screen grab from the White House YouTube livestream of Donald Trump's 2017 inauguration" (see Factcheck: Trump and Spicer's Statements on Inaugural Crowd Size (http://www.voanews.com/a/factcheck-size-of-trump-inaugural-crowd/3686759.html)) regarding a timestamp...?

ETA: Found The footage on this page was captured 45 minutes before each oath of office. (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/20/us/politics/trump-inauguration-crowd.html)  Tends to confirm Obama's crowd was larger, but why not show pictures from the inaugural speech times?  That would seem the fairest comparison....
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: waltworks on January 22, 2017, 06:20:54 PM
Photos both at the same time according to WaPo, NYT, etc.

I think the more interesting thing here is that Trump would react this way. He could have said "I really thank everyone who came, and I'm looking forward to moving ahead with blah blah blah."  It seems that he's just unable to do anything but troll/antagonize, though. What is there to gain from arguing about crowd size? There's no question that Trump is unpopular, and trying to claim "alternative facts" isn't going to endear him to anyone but his most diehard supporters.

It's like he's still running in a primary or something and picking fights just to get attention. Weird.

-W
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: KBecks on January 22, 2017, 06:53:56 PM
And then there's the story of the cake:

To be fair, the cake was billed as a "recreation" of Obama's inauguration cake, not a plagiarism.  That makes it all better, right?

side by side photo of cakes:  https://twitter.com/Duff_Goldman/status/822675780341641216/photo/1

this year's cake maker defends it:  https://www.instagram.com/p/BPiBprwF4JP/

the original cake artist calls a truce:  https://twitter.com/Duff_Goldman/status/822858891939590145

It's a fucking cake, who cares?  What's the point?
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 22, 2017, 07:01:00 PM
It's a fucking cake, who cares?  What's the point?

Professional cake makers consider themselves artists.  They are commissioned to create original artistic edible sculptures for special events, and they build a portfolio of their work to increase their reputation and fame.  To them, having a cake design stolen is just like having a dress design stolen or a song stolen.

It's not like there aren't a hundred other cake bakers out there who would have been thrilled to make an original cake for Trump, if he had asked.  For some reason, he instead seems to have asked for a recreation of Obama's cake.  Maybe he just thought it was a safe play to plagiarize the Obamas (again)? 

Here's hoping he sticks to that play book as often as possible.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: waltworks on January 22, 2017, 07:01:45 PM
I don't get the cake thing either. Being offended by this is just playing into the hands of people who say you're out of touch with middle America, who don't want to hear any more about plagiarized cakes or transvestite bathrooms when their kid just died of an opioid overdose and they haven't had a job in 12 years.

Seriously, if you don't like Trump, you need to drop the cake-plagiarism sort of crap. It's quite literally why Trump won the election.

-W
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 22, 2017, 07:03:18 PM
Seriously, if you don't like Trump, you need to drop the cake-plagiarism sort of crap.

The only person who was upset about this was the guy who had his cake design stole, and he promptly said it was totally fine when he learned that the other guys had been asked to recreate his work, instead of them stealing it and claiming it as their own.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: MDM on January 22, 2017, 07:22:36 PM
Photos both at the same time according to WaPo, NYT, etc.
It's too bad they didn't show side-by-side photos of the crowds while each president was speaking.

Showing pictures at 11:15 AM allows Trump to say (correctly?) that the mall was filled when he was speaking (at ~12:15 PM).  Maybe he's right - if so, that would be an "alternative fact". ;)
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Lagom on January 22, 2017, 07:58:22 PM
Photos both at the same time according to WaPo, NYT, etc.
It's too bad they didn't show side-by-side photos of the crowds while each president was speaking.

Showing pictures at 11:15 AM allows Trump to say (correctly?) that the mall was filled when he was speaking (at ~12:15 PM).  Maybe he's right - if so, that would be an "alternative fact". ;)

So you are asking us: what if his claim that has no basis in factual evidence is true?
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: marty998 on January 22, 2017, 08:06:11 PM
Photos both at the same time according to WaPo, NYT, etc.
It's too bad they didn't show side-by-side photos of the crowds while each president was speaking.

Showing pictures at 11:15 AM allows Trump to say (correctly?) that the mall was filled when he was speaking (at ~12:15 PM).  Maybe he's right - if so, that would be an "alternative fact". ;)

So you are asking us: what if his claim that has no basis in factual evidence is true?

You should know this is how conservatives argue.

They put out a statement. Whether it is a known falsehood or not is irrelevant. The fact that Liberals starts debating it means it suddenly has legitimacy, even if you tear it to shreads.

I hate it. See it too often down here in Australia. It's another unfortunate thing we have learned from you guys.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: waltworks on January 22, 2017, 08:23:11 PM
Photos both at the same time according to WaPo, NYT, etc.
It's too bad they didn't show side-by-side photos of the crowds while each president was speaking.

Showing pictures at 11:15 AM allows Trump to say (correctly?) that the mall was filled when he was speaking (at ~12:15 PM).  Maybe he's right - if so, that would be an "alternative fact". ;)

Loads of side-by-side photos (and time-lapse of the Trump event so you can see if the crowd gets big at any point during the entire event):
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/22/trump-inauguration-crowd-sean-spicers-claims-versus-the-evidence

-W
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: MDM on January 22, 2017, 08:31:02 PM
Loads of side-by-side photos (and time-lapse of the Trump event so you can see if the crowd gets big at any point during the entire event):
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/22/trump-inauguration-crowd-sean-spicers-claims-versus-the-evidence
Excellent, thanks!  That's what I was looking for.

So you are asking us: what if his claim that has no basis in factual evidence is true?
You should know this is how conservatives argue.
They put out a statement. Whether it is a known falsehood or not is irrelevant. The fact that Liberals starts debating it means it suddenly has legitimacy, even if you tear it to shreads.
I hate it. See it too often down here in Australia. It's another unfortunate thing we have learned from you guys.
marty998
Lagom

Rather than assuming things not in evidence about another poster, perhaps you might follow waltworks' example and simply answer a straightforward question with a straightforward answer.  This tends to lead to better communication....
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Lagom on January 22, 2017, 08:49:14 PM
MDM, rather than ignore evidence that was already presented only to instead take the word of a known serial liar as plausible (edit - whose claim at a minimum I hope you will acknowledge itself was presented without evidence), perhaps you might not ask ridiculous rhetorical questions when it's obvious that they are ridiculous. Tends to lead towards better communication.

Even if you want to claim we had not yet proven anything in this thread, the source and others similar that walt provided would have taken you literally 10 seconds of googling to locate. I find communication is elevated when all parties do at least that much basic research before expressing an opinion on something.

But I am relieved to hear you are now taking this evidence into account that definitively proves our now commander in chief continues to blatantly lie on a daily basis, and also recruits his top advisers to perpetuate the lies far and wide. I'm sure your conclusion will be that you don't care or its not important, but I'll take what I can get.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: FIRE me on January 22, 2017, 09:33:39 PM
Does anyone know the time each of the crowd pictures shown was taken?  If they were both taken ~12:15 PM, then it seems a fair enough comparison. 

Surely the cold rain kept some people from showing up.

Based on a quick google, it looks like both of Obama's inaugurations were cold but dry.

A cold rain was forecast and did materialize for Trump's. You can bundle up for the cold, but rain tends to be pretty miserable, especially when umbrellas are restricted.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: MDM on January 22, 2017, 09:34:41 PM
MDM, rather than ignore evidence that was already presented only to instead take the word of a known serial liar as plausible (edit - whose claim at a minimum I hope you will acknowledge itself was presented without evidence), perhaps you might not ask ridiculous rhetorical questions when it's obvious that they are ridiculous. Tends to lead towards better communication.

Even if you want to claim we had not yet proven anything in this thread, the source and others similar that walt provided would have taken you literally 10 seconds of googling to locate. I find communication is elevated when all parties do at least that much basic research before expressing an opinion on something.

But I am relieved to hear you are now taking this evidence into account that definitively proves our now commander in chief continues to blatantly lie on a daily basis, and also recruits his top advisers to perpetuate the lies far and wide. I'm sure your conclusion will be that you don't care or its not important, but I'll take what I can get.
I already said "...a Trump official implies/states the pictures were taken at different times (without specifying when)" - acknowledgement enough for you?

Again, you mistake simple and straightforward for "ridiculous rhetoric...".  Is it so hard to believe that sometimes when people ask a question, it's because they don't know the answer and hope someone else does?  Or does that apply only in the "Ask A Mustachian" board? ;)

Your google-fu may indeed be awesome but many multiples of 10 seconds from mine did not uncover what waltworks so kindly provided.

I tend not to believe most of what I hear from rabid partisans on either side.  Unfortunately there aren't many honest news brokers out there, and even fact-checkers aren't always unbiased.  As the saying goes, “In God we trust; all others bring data.” (http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/34849-in-god-we-trust-all-others-bring-data)
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Lagom on January 22, 2017, 09:49:06 PM
Hey, OK, I believe you. I mean, some people literally do believe the lies in the face of all evidence. It gets hard to differentiate sometimes. My bad.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 22, 2017, 09:53:38 PM
Does anyone know the time each of the crowd pictures shown was taken?  If they were both taken ~12:15 PM, then it seems a fair enough comparison. 

Surely the cold rain kept some people from showing up.

Based on a quick google, it looks like both of Obama's inaugurations were cold but dry.

A cold rain was forecast and did materialize for Trump's. You can bundle up for the cold, but rain tends to be pretty miserable, especially when umbrellas are restricted.
And there was a vast difference in attendance between Obama's two inaugurations as well. I'm not quite sure  what this is supposed to prove, anyway.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Lagom on January 22, 2017, 09:55:48 PM
Does anyone know the time each of the crowd pictures shown was taken?  If they were both taken ~12:15 PM, then it seems a fair enough comparison. 

Surely the cold rain kept some people from showing up.

Based on a quick google, it looks like both of Obama's inaugurations were cold but dry.

A cold rain was forecast and did materialize for Trump's. You can bundle up for the cold, but rain tends to be pretty miserable, especially when umbrellas are restricted.
And there was a vast difference in attendance between Obama's two inaugurations as well. I'm not quite sure  what this is supposed to prove, anyway.

It's all smoke and mirrors anyway. All the better to ram through Betsy Davos and friends.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: MDM on January 22, 2017, 10:03:23 PM
Hey, OK, I believe you. I mean, some people literally do believe the lies in the face of all evidence. It gets hard to differentiate sometimes. My bad.
No problem.  Despite the download/upload speeds offered by many ISPs, the bandwidth of internet forum conversations remains abysmally slow.  Things that could be resolved quickly across a table can drag on and on in a forum, so I understand and agree with the differentiation difficulty.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: lost_in_the_endless_aisle on January 22, 2017, 10:19:36 PM
I don't get the cake thing either. Being offended by this is just playing into the hands of people who say you're out of touch with middle America, who don't want to hear any more about plagiarized cakes or transvestite bathrooms when their kid just died of an opioid overdose and they haven't had a job in 12 years.

Seriously, if you don't like Trump, you need to drop the cake-plagiarism sort of crap. It's quite literally why Trump won the election.

-W
Comparing some coverage of the opiod conundrum, here is the LA Times from May of 2016 on the role of prescription drugs in initiating the cycle of addiction, as an example of coastal MSM coverage:
http://www.latimes.com/projects/oxycontin-part1/

By comparison, Trump's policy solution (astoundingly!) is his infamous wall:
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/769539271678013440

Here is Hillary's campaign position:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/09/02/combat-addiction/

The suggestion the left in general or the media in particular is blind to such problems does not seem accurate. It is true investigative and long-form journalism finds it hard to compete in the age of the tweet, and because of that, there is less incentive for profit-oriented media to go to such lengths to generate copy when clicks can be generated much more easily. Furthermore, the 24 hour news cycle leads to increased salience in trivia and a reduction of stories of substance (I referenced the cake story and Trump's other recent in-character gaffs in part as an ironic take on this phenomenon--and also, because this is a thread about the inauguration which is an elaborate ritual rather than a policy debate). I still hold out a 0.1% chance that Trump has calculated all of this and is secretly a 4-dimensional-chess-playing mastermind manipulating his own media coverage in fine detail.

The problems with the left in posing a credibl countervailing philosophy of governance isn't as simple as myopia to a particular set of problems. One serious issue is one of marketing their ideas. Yes, Hillary had a policy position on drug addiction, and one on immigration, and one on...just about everything. And that was precisely the problem. Nobody is motivated by donkish policy proposals but a fair number of people can be motivated through demagoguery, even if it isn't backed up with any intellectual rigor (and in Trump's case, that was a feature, not a bug). As another example, no one I spoke to who voted for Trump knew that Obama deported >2M people or that he was branded as "deporter-in-chief" as a result. To them, to the extent they cared about illegal immigration, Trump was offering a new direction. Politics isn't about policies.

The second problem was covered a while ago by vox regarding the smugness of US liberals:
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
No one wants to follow you as a leader if you start out by making them feel inferior. Again, that's a problem of tactics and not of substance.

Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Proud Foot on January 23, 2017, 08:34:50 AM
I've borrowed "The Purge" series from my library to watch today. Saving the most appropriate one for last ;-) In other word not watching the inauguration. Would be out skiing like Waltworks but too stormy.

My wife and I watched this before the election and my wife half seriously asked me if the purge would happen if Trump became President. 

As far as the inauguration, I did not watch it and chose not to see too much of it. I think it is absurd the denial by the new POTUS and his administration about the size of the attendance.  I could not care less about the size of the attendance and don't think it is fair to compare it to Obama's first inauguration.  That was something that was truly historic while this one was back to the status quo.  IMO nothing to be ashamed of, but of course Trump has to be the best and if he is confronted by facts stating otherwise then the facts are not true!
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: deadlymonkey on January 23, 2017, 09:12:58 AM
I've borrowed "The Purge" series from my library to watch today. Saving the most appropriate one for last ;-) In other word not watching the inauguration. Would be out skiing like Waltworks but too stormy.

My wife and I watched this before the election and my wife half seriously asked me if the purge would happen if Trump became President. 

As far as the inauguration, I did not watch it and chose not to see too much of it. I think it is absurd the denial by the new POTUS and his administration about the size of the attendance.  I could not care less about the size of the attendance and don't think it is fair to compare it to Obama's first inauguration.  That was something that was truly historic while this one was back to the status quo.  IMO nothing to be ashamed of, but of course Trump has to be the best and if he is confronted by facts stating otherwise then the facts are not true!

That is the ridiculous part.  Of course Obama's inauguration would be bigger.  It was historic, and DC is a very democratic city and the surrounding area is heavily democratic.  Democrat Inaugurations are almost always going to be bigger.  Trump could have ignored the story and made a funny quip like "Still bigger than Hillary's."  He might get some laughs and the story dies and we move on. 

He couldn't do that, he has to somehow prove that some crazy solar reflection obscured hundreds of thousands of people that just look invisible on film but were really there.  That is textbook narcissism and just crazy that we are going to have to endure that until he is inevitably impeached.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: ysette9 on January 23, 2017, 04:37:19 PM
Until he started talking about it, it would have never occurred to me to think about comparing inauguration crowd sizes. Now that he brought it up, it does make him look unpopular. Bitching about it makes him look like petulant, childish, and unpopular. Grow up, for god's sake!
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Kris on January 23, 2017, 05:05:05 PM
Until he started talking about it, it would have never occurred to me to think about comparing inauguration crowd sizes. Now that he brought it up, it does make him look unpopular. Bitching about it makes him look like petulant, childish, and unpopular. Grow up, for god's sake!

Exactly. Whenever I see someone say, "Who cares about size?" I think, "Um, the President of the United States?"
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: jim555 on January 23, 2017, 05:09:08 PM
Trump declared January 20, 2017, as "National Day of Patriotic Devotion"  I am not making this up. 
LOL
--
NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United
States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by
the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby
proclaim January 20, 2017, as National Day of Patriotic
Devotion, in order to strengthen our bonds to each other and to
our country -- and to renew the duties of Government to the
people.
--
Sorta echos a Nationalist Movement in Germany from the 1930s.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 23, 2017, 10:04:54 PM
Until he started talking about it, it would have never occurred to me to think about comparing inauguration crowd sizes. Now that he brought it up, it does make him look unpopular. Bitching about it makes him look like petulant, childish, and unpopular. Grow up, for god's sake!
To be fair, he didn't bring it up. It began with a post on a governmental agency's twitter account that directly compared the crowd sizes, against departmental policy. Trump got offended (or his administration did), but he wasn't the one who started the conversation.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 23, 2017, 10:20:45 PM
To be fair, he didn't bring it up. It began with a post on a governmental agency's twitter account that directly compared the crowd sizes, against departmental policy. Trump got offended (or his administration did), but he wasn't the one who started the conversation.

To be fair, this is a lie.  The NPS retweeted someone ele's side by side photos of the inauguration crowd, as part of their series of tweets covering the inauguration.  They did not begin it. 
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 23, 2017, 10:40:21 PM
To be fair, he didn't bring it up. It began with a post on a governmental agency's twitter account that directly compared the crowd sizes, against departmental policy. Trump got offended (or his administration did), but he wasn't the one who started the conversation.

To be fair, this is a lie.  The NPS retweeted someone ele's side by side photos of the inauguration crowd, as part of their series of tweets covering the inauguration.  They did not begin it.

Ok. So the NPS retweeted a tweet that was against departmental policy. Mea culpa. I was incorrect: Trump was 3rd or fourth in line, not second, and clearly not the originator of the size comparison.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: ncornilsen on January 24, 2017, 08:09:29 AM
The thing about this inauguration I'm most ashamed of is that so much political discourse has anything, at all, to do with twitter. For fucks sake.

Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: golden1 on January 24, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
I felt like I was watching the exact moment my country turned into a joke. 
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Paul der Krake on January 24, 2017, 02:09:23 PM
I felt like I was watching the exact moment my country turned into a joke.
Don't worry- US politics have been widely mocked for the last decade. This was just the icing on the cake.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Gal2016 on January 24, 2017, 02:58:00 PM
I woke up in the middle of the night last night and had trouble falling back asleep due to the pit of dread I felt in my stomach. I tried hard to distract myself but late at night it was hard to avoid the thought of the inauguration. It is embarrassing and scary to be an American right now. I am ashamed of my country.

I felt this same exact way on election day. Dread and a sick feeling in my stomach that Hillary Clinton would likely be our next President.  Embarrassment as a woman that THIS was the best we could do. 

I had told my husband prior to the election that all the polls were wrong and that Trump would win (false bravado and hopefully thinking). Certainly, people could see how badly our country had done over the last 7 years? Riots and murders and the oh-so-politically-correct policing our every thought and word. Talk about oppressive dystopia and the book, "1984". Ugh. We have gotten a glimpse.

And now! Relief!-- We dodged the Hillary bullet.  That was a big win. Now, we move forward with nervous excitement. We've elected a NON-POLITICIAN. This is new territory. Maybe, just maybe things will get better.  Perhaps, our society will become more responsible, more self-aware (its not about YOU) and more productive.  Maybe our kids will be pressured to do good rather than have sex at the earliest age possible ("hey, we're all sexual beings") and do drugs ("hey, alcohol is worse") and feel oh-so-special without ever striving to do anything special. I'm ready for the age of Kardashianism and "micro-aggressions" to be put behind us.

And, really, I could care less that Trump made crude comments in private about the gold-diggers who were chasing after him over a decade ago. He and they knew what was going on and voluntarily participated in those shenanigans.  (Well, until they thought they could get some $$ and publicity out of the deal during election season).  Please.

So, count me as excited and hopeful!
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Malloy on January 24, 2017, 04:15:31 PM
I woke up in the middle of the night last night and had trouble falling back asleep due to the pit of dread I felt in my stomach. I tried hard to distract myself but late at night it was hard to avoid the thought of the inauguration. It is embarrassing and scary to be an American right now. I am ashamed of my country.

I felt this same exact way on election day. Dread and a sick feeling in my stomach that Hillary Clinton would likely be our next President.  Embarrassment as a woman that THIS was the best we could do. 

I had told my husband prior to the election that all the polls were wrong and that Trump would win (false bravado and hopefully thinking). Certainly, people could see how badly our country had done over the last 7 years? Riots and murders and the oh-so-politically-correct policing our every thought and word. Talk about oppressive dystopia and the book, "1984". Ugh. We have gotten a glimpse.

And now! Relief!-- We dodged the Hillary bullet.  That was a big win. Now, we move forward with nervous excitement. We've elected a NON-POLITICIAN. This is new territory. Maybe, just maybe things will get better.  Perhaps, our society will become more responsible, more self-aware (its not about YOU) and more productive.  Maybe our kids will be pressured to do good rather than have sex at the earliest age possible ("hey, we're all sexual beings") and do drugs ("hey, alcohol is worse") and feel oh-so-special without ever striving to do anything special. I'm ready for the age of Kardashianism and "micro-aggressions" to be put behind us.

And, really, I could care less that Trump made crude comments in private about the gold-diggers who were chasing after him over a decade ago. He and they knew what was going on and voluntarily participated in those shenanigans.  (Well, until they thought they could get some $$ and publicity out of the deal during election season).  Please.

So, count me as excited and hopeful!

Gal-where do you even live?  Do you live in our dystopian future (is there a RoboCop? Terminator?  Any robots, good or evil?), because nothing you've written even remotely describes the present as I see it and, frankly, as the data shows. I think at least you have to acknowledge that your thoughts aren't being policed, since you are here on the internet writing some pretty wild stuff. 

Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: waltworks on January 24, 2017, 04:22:46 PM
Yes, Trump definitely got the get-off-my-lawn vote.

As for the Kardashians, I think electing a reality TV star is unlikely to reduce the popularity of reality TV.

Just FYI, too, your concerns about all that out-of-control teenage sex? The opposite has happened over the last 30 years or so (and the trend continues today):
https://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/

Money quote: "In 2014, a total of 249,078 babies were born to women aged 15–19 years, for a birth rate of 24.2 per 1,000 women in this age group.  This is another historic low for U.S. teens and a drop of 9% from 2013."

Drugs? Use is down on basically everything across the board:
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/monitoring-future-survey-high-school-youth-trends


The kids are all right, folks.

-W
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Gal2016 on January 25, 2017, 10:15:10 AM
I woke up in the middle of the night last night and had trouble falling back asleep due to the pit of dread I felt in my stomach. I tried hard to distract myself but late at night it was hard to avoid the thought of the inauguration. It is embarrassing and scary to be an American right now. I am ashamed of my country.

I felt this same exact way on election day. Dread and a sick feeling in my stomach that Hillary Clinton would likely be our next President.  Embarrassment as a woman that THIS was the best we could do. 

I had told my husband prior to the election that all the polls were wrong and that Trump would win (false bravado and hopefully thinking). Certainly, people could see how badly our country had done over the last 7 years? Riots and murders and the oh-so-politically-correct policing our every thought and word. Talk about oppressive dystopia and the book, "1984". Ugh. We have gotten a glimpse.

And now! Relief!-- We dodged the Hillary bullet.  That was a big win. Now, we move forward with nervous excitement. We've elected a NON-POLITICIAN. This is new territory. Maybe, just maybe things will get better.  Perhaps, our society will become more responsible, more self-aware (its not about YOU) and more productive.  Maybe our kids will be pressured to do good rather than have sex at the earliest age possible ("hey, we're all sexual beings") and do drugs ("hey, alcohol is worse") and feel oh-so-special without ever striving to do anything special. I'm ready for the age of Kardashianism and "micro-aggressions" to be put behind us.

And, really, I could care less that Trump made crude comments in private about the gold-diggers who were chasing after him over a decade ago. He and they knew what was going on and voluntarily participated in those shenanigans.  (Well, until they thought they could get some $$ and publicity out of the deal during election season).  Please.

So, count me as excited and hopeful!

Gal-where do you even live?  Do you live in our dystopian future (is there a RoboCop? Terminator?  Any robots, good or evil?), because nothing you've written even remotely describes the present as I see it and, frankly, as the data shows. I think at least you have to acknowledge that your thoughts aren't being policed, since you are here on the internet writing some pretty wild stuff.

So. Have you actually read "1984"?

Generally, those who think the same thoughts as the progressive-thought-police aren't going to think there's anything wrong with it.  You've drank the kool-aid. The real world cannot be explained to you -- which is why you're probably still scratching your head wondering how all of the people who voted for Trump can be such racist, terrible people. Gosh, you probably even KNOW some of them and didn't even realize how terrible they are...
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Malloy on January 25, 2017, 10:30:13 AM
I woke up in the middle of the night last night and had trouble falling back asleep due to the pit of dread I felt in my stomach. I tried hard to distract myself but late at night it was hard to avoid the thought of the inauguration. It is embarrassing and scary to be an American right now. I am ashamed of my country.

I felt this same exact way on election day. Dread and a sick feeling in my stomach that Hillary Clinton would likely be our next President.  Embarrassment as a woman that THIS was the best we could do. 

I had told my husband prior to the election that all the polls were wrong and that Trump would win (false bravado and hopefully thinking). Certainly, people could see how badly our country had done over the last 7 years? Riots and murders and the oh-so-politically-correct policing our every thought and word. Talk about oppressive dystopia and the book, "1984". Ugh. We have gotten a glimpse.

And now! Relief!-- We dodged the Hillary bullet.  That was a big win. Now, we move forward with nervous excitement. We've elected a NON-POLITICIAN. This is new territory. Maybe, just maybe things will get better.  Perhaps, our society will become more responsible, more self-aware (its not about YOU) and more productive.  Maybe our kids will be pressured to do good rather than have sex at the earliest age possible ("hey, we're all sexual beings") and do drugs ("hey, alcohol is worse") and feel oh-so-special without ever striving to do anything special. I'm ready for the age of Kardashianism and "micro-aggressions" to be put behind us.

And, really, I could care less that Trump made crude comments in private about the gold-diggers who were chasing after him over a decade ago. He and they knew what was going on and voluntarily participated in those shenanigans.  (Well, until they thought they could get some $$ and publicity out of the deal during election season).  Please.

So, count me as excited and hopeful!

Gal-where do you even live?  Do you live in our dystopian future (is there a RoboCop? Terminator?  Any robots, good or evil?), because nothing you've written even remotely describes the present as I see it and, frankly, as the data shows. I think at least you have to acknowledge that your thoughts aren't being policed, since you are here on the internet writing some pretty wild stuff.

So. Have you actually read "1984"?

Generally, those who think the same thoughts as the progressive-thought-police aren't going to think there's anything wrong with it.  You've drank the kool-aid. The real world cannot be explained to you -- which is why you're probably still scratching your head wondering how all of the people who voted for Trump can be such racist, terrible people. Gosh, you probably even KNOW some of them and didn't even realize how terrible they are...

I guess I don't understand the real world then.  You know, the one in which teen pregnancy rates and sexual activity rates and abortion rates are dropping.  The one in which violent crime is on a long downward trend.  Or the one in which the world is more stable and less violent than it used to be.  The one in which my rate of return on my 401(k) was excellent over the Obama presidency.

 You are correct that the "real" world described above cannot be explained to me.  Because it is not based on any observable evidence.  But I am flexible and willing to change my views in the face of evidence.  If you are ever arrested because of the progressive thought police, please let me know, and I will contribute towards your legal defense.  However, people disagreeing with you on the internet does not constitute thought policing.
   
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Gal2016 on January 25, 2017, 10:40:17 AM
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: deadlymonkey on January 25, 2017, 10:54:07 AM
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Mr Dorothy Dollar on January 25, 2017, 11:19:18 AM
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.

As a gay guy, I like this exchange. And will quietly wait for any sense to be made. It seems she is advocating that she is a victim due to people calling her out on viewpoints that are not fact based. Maybe if I understood her viewpoint on what oppression (apparently being called out for a viewpoint) is she could understand the oppression I face (fear of being curb stomped, marriage invalidation attempts in TX, daily prejudice).
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: waltworks on January 25, 2017, 12:12:39 PM
I don't think you're a racist, but I question your statements that American youth are corrupted (presumably by liberalism) when the numbers tell a different story.

The reality TV thing is just absolutely nonsensical, too. If there's someone who personifies reality TV, it's Donald Trump. Now, I don't know if that's good or bad (I have never owned a TV) but it's hard to complain about the Kardashians in the context of proclaiming Trump the best ever.

But hey, you want to vote me/my rich friends some more tax cuts? Awesome. Thanks.

-W
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: KBecks on January 25, 2017, 12:39:31 PM


The kids are all right, folks.

-W

Herion use in adults ages 18- 25 is on the rise and it's a huge problem.  The "kids" are actually over 18, but this is a real concern that families are struggling with.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/scope-heroin-use-in-united-states
in 2012 about 669,000 Americans reported using heroin in the past year,1 a number that has been on the rise since 2007. This trend appears to be driven largely by young adults aged 18–25 among whom there have been the greatest increases. The number of people using heroin for the first time is unacceptably high, with 156,000 people starting heroin use in 2012, nearly double the number of people in 2006 (90,000). In contrast, heroin use has been declining among teens aged 12–17.

As for fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions, hallelujia! 

Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: RosieTR on January 25, 2017, 01:00:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ-bIeJ4zOY

Our new national anthem.

That was totally great!
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Gal2016 on January 25, 2017, 01:43:32 PM
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.

I'm just laughing at this assertion.  I doubt we would have had all those shocked and grieving liberals who couldn't go to work or attend college classes if the polls were that close.  5% is the usual margin.  Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least.  Clinton was gobsmacked.

Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country... I don't think the liberals were expecting that.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: golden1 on January 25, 2017, 02:10:27 PM
Quote
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

From what I understand, there was a lack of quality polling in many states this time around.  It wasn't considered a problem because people made certain incorrect assumptions.

I understand your fear of being culturally marginalized and it is legit, but can you understand the fear of other American citizens of Trump?  I feel like you are guilty of what you are complaining about - ignoring the legitimate feelings of other Americans.  It is really easy to have empathy for those who share your culture, but can you understand that there are people, also citizens like you, who are scared and dismayed about Trump?  Or are they less human because they don't share your culture and values? 
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: waltworks on January 25, 2017, 02:29:09 PM


The kids are all right, folks.

-W

Herion use in adults ages 18- 25 is on the rise and it's a huge problem.  The "kids" are actually over 18, but this is a real concern that families are struggling with.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/scope-heroin-use-in-united-states
in 2012 about 669,000 Americans reported using heroin in the past year,1 a number that has been on the rise since 2007. This trend appears to be driven largely by young adults aged 18–25 among whom there have been the greatest increases. The number of people using heroin for the first time is unacceptably high, with 156,000 people starting heroin use in 2012, nearly double the number of people in 2006 (90,000). In contrast, heroin use has been declining among teens aged 12–17.

As for fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions, hallelujia!

Indeed. You can thank the pharmaceutical industry and opioid overprescription for that one. It is quite a disaster. There are even billboards here in UT advocating refusing opioids entirely even if you have had surgery - just too risky for many people.

-W
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Kris on January 25, 2017, 02:41:11 PM


The kids are all right, folks.

-W

Herion use in adults ages 18- 25 is on the rise and it's a huge problem.  The "kids" are actually over 18, but this is a real concern that families are struggling with.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/scope-heroin-use-in-united-states
in 2012 about 669,000 Americans reported using heroin in the past year,1 a number that has been on the rise since 2007. This trend appears to be driven largely by young adults aged 18–25 among whom there have been the greatest increases. The number of people using heroin for the first time is unacceptably high, with 156,000 people starting heroin use in 2012, nearly double the number of people in 2006 (90,000). In contrast, heroin use has been declining among teens aged 12–17.

As for fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions, hallelujia!

Actually. The biggest demopraphixpc of heroin abusers are white males 25-34.

And for opioid addiction, it's white males 45-54 from rural areas.
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/newsevents/ucm300859.pdf


Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 25, 2017, 03:11:04 PM
Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least.  Clinton was gobsmacked.

Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country... I don't think the liberals were expecting that.

Your memory is different than mine.  I remember Clinton leading by 3 to 8 percent much of the time, with Trump tied or barely leading the popular vote once in a while, and pulling to within two percent the final 10 days after the FBI announced an email investigation.

Not surprisingly, the final vote was also Clinton by about two percent.  The polls were right.

Do you remember something different?
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: MDM on January 25, 2017, 03:20:22 PM
A couple of sources if one wants to cite polls vs. reality for the election:

http://pollyvote.com/en/2016/11/09/a-terrible-day-for-election-forecasters-where-are-the-winners/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html

I think sol's memory come closer to what those links show.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Kris on January 25, 2017, 03:21:46 PM
A couple of sources if one wants to cite polls vs. reality for the election:

http://pollyvote.com/en/2016/11/09/a-terrible-day-for-election-forecasters-where-are-the-winners/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html

I think sol's memory come closer to what those links show.

Yes, but Gal2016 comes closer to Trump's.

Alternative truths, y'all.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: lost_in_the_endless_aisle on January 25, 2017, 08:15:33 PM
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.

I'm just laughing at this assertion.  I doubt we would have had all those shocked and grieving liberals who couldn't go to work or attend college classes if the polls were that close.  5% is the usual margin.  Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least.  Clinton was gobsmacked.

Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country... I don't think the liberals were expecting that.
Not a single poll showed Clinton with a 20% national lead. I followed Nate Silver's 538 analysis all the way through and he pointed out the national poll aggregate was actually closer to the actual outcome than is normal for presidential elections. He and his team also wrote extensively on the scenarios under which Trump could win and how it was rational to expect correlations among state polling errors that would increase the uncertainty of outcome. That's why he had Trump at ~30%. You can argue Silver was just covering his ass but it turned out to be a good move regardless. Fools, like Wang at Princeton Election Consortium went all-in on national level polls and implicitly eliminated the possibility of state poll error correlations from their models. It was only models like Wang's that gave HC absurdly high chances of winning (>99% on PEC, lol!).
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 25, 2017, 09:46:45 PM
Nate Silver was one of the few who predicted a Trump win was even in the relm of possibilities. Very few others thought Trump was even a possibility of a win, despite the polls clearly showing otherwise. There was the famous example of a betting parlor in Ireland paying out for Clinton bets in September.  They had several million in losses they had to eat in November.

That doesn't change the fact that Clinton lost to Donald Fucking Trump.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: sol on January 25, 2017, 10:32:27 PM
Nate Silver was one of the few who predicted a Trump win was even in the relm of possibilities. Very few others thought Trump was even a possibility of a win, despite the polls clearly showing otherwise. There was the famous example of a betting parlor in Ireland paying out for Clinton bets in September.  They had several million in losses they had to eat in November.

That doesn't change the fact that Clinton lost to Donald Fucking Trump.

Most people didn't believe it was possible to lose the popular vote by three million votes and still win the electoral college.  I sort of understand why they thought such a dramatic lead in the popular vote would lead to an electoral college win.

The country voted decidedly for Clinton, but it didn't matter.  Trump won the right combination of key minority states to put together an electoral college victory, so he gets to be President even though most Americans hate him. Even though he has the lowest approval rating of any incoming president.  Even though people boycotted his inauguration and protested all over the country.  None of that matters, since he won that magic combination of minority states.

The really sad part, to me, is how congress played out.  The House of Representatives is supposed to represent the will of the people, and yet Republicans hold 55.4% of the seats (and thus 100% of the power) even though they only got 48.7% of the votes.  That system is genuinely fucked up.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: lost_in_the_endless_aisle on January 25, 2017, 11:37:16 PM
Nate Silver was one of the few who predicted a Trump win was even in the relm of possibilities. Very few others thought Trump was even a possibility of a win, despite the polls clearly showing otherwise. There was the famous example of a betting parlor in Ireland paying out for Clinton bets in September.  They had several million in losses they had to eat in November.

That doesn't change the fact that Clinton lost to Donald Fucking Trump.

Most people didn't believe it was possible to lose the popular vote by three million votes and still win the electoral college.  I sort of understand why they thought such a dramatic lead in the popular vote would lead to an electoral college win.

The country voted decidedly for Clinton, but it didn't matter.  Trump won the right combination of key minority states to put together an electoral college victory, so he gets to be President even though most Americans hate him. Even though he has the lowest approval rating of any incoming president.  Even though people boycotted his inauguration and protested all over the country.  None of that matters, since he won that magic combination of minority states.

The really sad part, to me, is how congress played out.  The House of Representatives is supposed to represent the will of the people, and yet Republicans hold 55.4% of the seats (and thus 100% of the power) even though they only got 48.7% of the votes.  That system is genuinely fucked up.
The will of the people is something I'd argue we often don't want. The reasoning behind the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is to make it impossible to override certain principles with a mere majority. Would you feel better if a different party (or merely one without Trump at the helm) had 48% of the vote but 55% of the representation? If so, you are being inconsistent.

There is no perfect electoral decision process because you will always violate a "reasonable" criteria desirable in voting, as indicated in Arrow's Impossibility Theorem. The issue, as pointed out by David Deutsch in The Beginning of Infinity, is not with the particular electoral calculus in effect but the ability of a given electoral system to correct errors. To the extent the Affordable Health Care Act was a mistake, we might see reversals soon; to the extent Trump and the current slate of sycophant Republicans are mistakes, we will hopefully see a reversal in the future. If not, maybe our system wasn't that robust to begin with and itself needs to be replaced...
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Unique User on January 26, 2017, 06:34:02 AM


The kids are all right, folks.

-W

Herion use in adults ages 18- 25 is on the rise and it's a huge problem.  The "kids" are actually over 18, but this is a real concern that families are struggling with.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/scope-heroin-use-in-united-states
in 2012 about 669,000 Americans reported using heroin in the past year,1 a number that has been on the rise since 2007. This trend appears to be driven largely by young adults aged 18–25 among whom there have been the greatest increases. The number of people using heroin for the first time is unacceptably high, with 156,000 people starting heroin use in 2012, nearly double the number of people in 2006 (90,000). In contrast, heroin use has been declining among teens aged 12–17.

As for fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions, hallelujia!

Actually. The biggest demopraphixpc of heroin abusers are white males 25-34.

And for opioid addiction, it's white males 45-54 from rural areas.
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/newsevents/ucm300859.pdf

The second I read that I wondered how much of the heroin use was white males.  And thanks for the addition on opioid addiction, Bill Maher addressed it well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4BWjaLqVqE

Gal2016 must be from one of the areas where this is rampant, because in my leafy area of a solidly blue city - the world she describes does not exist.   
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: radram on January 26, 2017, 08:06:32 AM
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.

I'm just laughing at this assertion.  I doubt we would have had all those shocked and grieving liberals who couldn't go to work or attend college classes if the polls were that close.  5% is the usual margin.  Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least.  Clinton was gobsmacked.

Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country... I don't think the liberals were expecting that.

Just so much wow.

"All those people could not go to work." I have never seen attendance records of employees, and you have not either. There is no such data. It doesn't exist.Even if you found this attendance record (no such thing), how do you prove the reason for the absence was the election results. That is the only way your statement is anything other than random words put together.

"People could not go to school." Same thing as above. There is no such thing as daily attendance record data for colleges, but there is for k-12 education. That data could be looked at, but you won't, since it could not be used in any meaningful way.

"Polls margins are usually 5%". Nope. Forget USUALLY. Link just ONE that has a MoE greater than 4%. If you looked real hard, you might even find a few, but margins are "usually" around 2.5%-3.2%. That is how you use that word.

"Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country" 84.29% actually. You were only off by about 70%. Impressive for making it up. I guess I should thank you for not using the false report that Clinton won 57 counties in the country. It was 489. Interesting data, but not all that useful, unless you are proposing to change the electoral college to use land mass. I made up the 70% number as well. I did not do the maths. How close did I get? I bet pretty close. That is how you make stuff up.

"Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least." I will let the real clear politics link someone else pointed out speak for me. Again, I would be very impressed if you could find ONE late October, early November poll with a 20% Clinton lead. If there was a Rodham or Clinton family reunion around that time, that took a poll, that published the results, you might even be able to do this one.

"I don't think...". CONGRATULATIONS. You got one right! But did you see how I had to turn it into a lie for it to be true.

It is going to be an interesting 8 years.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Metric Mouse on January 26, 2017, 08:11:08 AM
Nate Silver was one of the few who predicted a Trump win was even in the relm of possibilities. Very few others thought Trump was even a possibility of a win, despite the polls clearly showing otherwise. There was the famous example of a betting parlor in Ireland paying out for Clinton bets in September.  They had several million in losses they had to eat in November.

That doesn't change the fact that Clinton lost to Donald Fucking Trump.

Most people didn't believe it was possible to lose the popular vote by three million votes and still win the electoral college.  I sort of understand why they thought such a dramatic lead in the popular vote would lead to an electoral college win.

The country voted decidedly for Clinton, but it didn't matter.  Trump won the right combination of key minority states to put together an electoral college victory, so he gets to be President even though most Americans hate him. Even though he has the lowest approval rating of any incoming president.  Even though people boycotted his inauguration and protested all over the country.  None of that matters, since he won that magic combination of minority states.

The really sad part, to me, is how congress played out.  The House of Representatives is supposed to represent the will of the people, and yet Republicans hold 55.4% of the seats (and thus 100% of the power) even though they only got 48.7% of the votes.  That system is genuinely fucked up.
The will of the people is something I'd argue we often don't want. The reasoning behind the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is to make it impossible to override certain principles with a mere majority. Would you feel better if a different party (or merely one without Trump at the helm) had 48% of the vote but 55% of the representation? If so, you are being inconsistent.

There is no perfect electoral decision process because you will always violate a "reasonable" criteria desirable in voting, as indicated in Arrow's Impossibility Theorem. The issue, as pointed out by David Deutsch in The Beginning of Infinity, is not with the particular electoral calculus in effect but the ability of a given electoral system to correct errors. To the extent the Affordable Health Care Act was a mistake, we might see reversals soon; to the extent Trump and the current slate of sycophant Republicans are mistakes, we will hopefully see a reversal in the future. If not, maybe our system wasn't that robust to begin with and itself needs to be replaced...
Thank you. Great points.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Gal2016 on January 26, 2017, 09:06:47 AM
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.

I'm just laughing at this assertion.  I doubt we would have had all those shocked and grieving liberals who couldn't go to work or attend college classes if the polls were that close.  5% is the usual margin.  Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least.  Clinton was gobsmacked.

Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country... I don't think the liberals were expecting that.

Just so much wow.

"All those people could not go to work." I have never seen attendance records of employees, and you have not either. There is no such data. It doesn't exist.Even if you found this attendance record (no such thing), how do you prove the reason for the absence was the election results. That is the only way your statement is anything other than random words put together.

"People could not go to school." Same thing as above. There is no such thing as daily attendance record data for colleges, but there is for k-12 education. That data could be looked at, but you won't, since it could not be used in any meaningful way.

"Polls margins are usually 5%". Nope. Forget USUALLY. Link just ONE that has a MoE greater than 4%. If you looked real hard, you might even find a few, but margins are "usually" around 2.5%-3.2%. That is how you use that word.

"Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country" 84.29% actually. You were only off by about 70%. Impressive for making it up. I guess I should thank you for not using the false report that Clinton won 57 counties in the country. It was 489. Interesting data, but not all that useful, unless you are proposing to change the electoral college to use land mass. I made up the 70% number as well. I did not do the maths. How close did I get? I bet pretty close. That is how you make stuff up.

"Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least." I will let the real clear politics link someone else pointed out speak for me. Again, I would be very impressed if you could find ONE late October, early November poll with a 20% Clinton lead. If there was a Rodham or Clinton family reunion around that time, that took a poll, that published the results, you might even be able to do this one.

"I don't think...". CONGRATULATIONS. You got one right! But did you see how I had to turn it into a lie for it to be true.

Aww.  Are my feelings supposed to be hurt?!! (sniffle) I might just have to take a day off work...  Oh, wait, I'm a responsible adult, so I don't do things like that.  Just so.

It is going to be an interesting 8 years.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: waltworks on January 26, 2017, 09:10:17 AM
Gal2016, did you mean to post a response? It appears that you just posted a quote from a previous post with no added content.

-W
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: radram on January 26, 2017, 09:21:58 AM
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.

I'm just laughing at this assertion.  I doubt we would have had all those shocked and grieving liberals who couldn't go to work or attend college classes if the polls were that close.  5% is the usual margin.  Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least.  Clinton was gobsmacked.

Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country... I don't think the liberals were expecting that.

Just so much wow.

"All those people could not go to work." I have never seen attendance records of employees, and you have not either. There is no such data. It doesn't exist.Even if you found this attendance record (no such thing), how do you prove the reason for the absence was the election results. That is the only way your statement is anything other than random words put together.

"People could not go to school." Same thing as above. There is no such thing as daily attendance record data for colleges, but there is for k-12 education. That data could be looked at, but you won't, since it could not be used in any meaningful way.

"Polls margins are usually 5%". Nope. Forget USUALLY. Link just ONE that has a MoE greater than 4%. If you looked real hard, you might even find a few, but margins are "usually" around 2.5%-3.2%. That is how you use that word.

"Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country" 84.29% actually. You were only off by about 70%. Impressive for making it up. I guess I should thank you for not using the false report that Clinton won 57 counties in the country. It was 489. Interesting data, but not all that useful, unless you are proposing to change the electoral college to use land mass. I made up the 70% number as well. I did not do the maths. How close did I get? I bet pretty close. That is how you make stuff up.

"Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least." I will let the real clear politics link someone else pointed out speak for me. Again, I would be very impressed if you could find ONE late October, early November poll with a 20% Clinton lead. If there was a Rodham or Clinton family reunion around that time, that took a poll, that published the results, you might even be able to do this one.

"I don't think...". CONGRATULATIONS. You got one right! But did you see how I had to turn it into a lie for it to be true.

Aww.  Are my feelings supposed to be hurt?!! (sniffle) I might just have to take a day off work...  Oh, wait, I'm a responsible adult, so I don't do things like that.  Just so.

It is going to be an interesting 8 years.

Nice retort. Refutes all my points.  By the way, do responsible adults read and post on forums during work hours? I will wait until after your shift for your response. Have a great day at work.

To walt - it was embedded in my quote. I will assume that was an error, and not an attempt to falsely attribute the comment to me. We all know how easy it is to get facts incorrect.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: Gal2016 on January 26, 2017, 11:02:30 AM
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.

I'm just laughing at this assertion.  I doubt we would have had all those shocked and grieving liberals who couldn't go to work or attend college classes if the polls were that close.  5% is the usual margin.  Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least.  Clinton was gobsmacked.

Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country... I don't think the liberals were expecting that.

Just so much wow.

"All those people could not go to work." I have never seen attendance records of employees, and you have not either. There is no such data. It doesn't exist.Even if you found this attendance record (no such thing), how do you prove the reason for the absence was the election results. That is the only way your statement is anything other than random words put together.

"People could not go to school." Same thing as above. There is no such thing as daily attendance record data for colleges, but there is for k-12 education. That data could be looked at, but you won't, since it could not be used in any meaningful way.

"Polls margins are usually 5%". Nope. Forget USUALLY. Link just ONE that has a MoE greater than 4%. If you looked real hard, you might even find a few, but margins are "usually" around 2.5%-3.2%. That is how you use that word.

"Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country" 84.29% actually. You were only off by about 70%. Impressive for making it up. I guess I should thank you for not using the false report that Clinton won 57 counties in the country. It was 489. Interesting data, but not all that useful, unless you are proposing to change the electoral college to use land mass. I made up the 70% number as well. I did not do the maths. How close did I get? I bet pretty close. That is how you make stuff up.

"Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least." I will let the real clear politics link someone else pointed out speak for me. Again, I would be very impressed if you could find ONE late October, early November poll with a 20% Clinton lead. If there was a Rodham or Clinton family reunion around that time, that took a poll, that published the results, you might even be able to do this one.

"I don't think...". CONGRATULATIONS. You got one right! But did you see how I had to turn it into a lie for it to be true.

Aww.  Are my feelings supposed to be hurt?!! (sniffle) I might just have to take a day off work...  Oh, wait, I'm a responsible adult, so I don't do things like that.  Just so.

It is going to be an interesting 8 years.

Nice retort. Refutes all my points.  By the way, do responsible adults read and post on forums during work hours? I will wait until after your shift for your response. Have a great day at work.

Ah. See, I get paid for a body of work rather than an hourly wage. Intellectual work and people management and all that. Not sure about you... so you may want to man that fry-station - people are depending on you for their lunch, no doubt.

To walt - it was embedded in my quote. I will assume that was an error, and not an attempt to falsely attribute the comment to me. We all know how easy it is to get facts incorrect.
Title: Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
Post by: FrugalToque on January 26, 2017, 12:02:19 PM
[MOD NOTE:  We're getting tired of moderating these threads.  LOCKED.]

Our intention here is to keep the focus on MMM and early retirement. 
Let's keep that in mind.
"Off topic" is one thing, but certain topics seem to constantly delve into personal exchanges that are not improving this community in any way.