Poll

So, how are you feeling about the inauguration? Why?

Embarrassed
96 (21.5%)
Hopeful
44 (9.8%)
Scared
116 (26%)
Excited
17 (3.8%)
Angry
87 (19.5%)
Relieved
10 (2.2%)
Apathetic
46 (10.3%)
Other
31 (6.9%)

Total Members Voted: 242

Author Topic: Your reaction to the inauguration?  (Read 14626 times)

sol

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #100 on: January 22, 2017, 07:01:00 PM »
It's a fucking cake, who cares?  What's the point?

Professional cake makers consider themselves artists.  They are commissioned to create original artistic edible sculptures for special events, and they build a portfolio of their work to increase their reputation and fame.  To them, having a cake design stolen is just like having a dress design stolen or a song stolen.

It's not like there aren't a hundred other cake bakers out there who would have been thrilled to make an original cake for Trump, if he had asked.  For some reason, he instead seems to have asked for a recreation of Obama's cake.  Maybe he just thought it was a safe play to plagiarize the Obamas (again)? 

Here's hoping he sticks to that play book as often as possible.

waltworks

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #101 on: January 22, 2017, 07:01:45 PM »
I don't get the cake thing either. Being offended by this is just playing into the hands of people who say you're out of touch with middle America, who don't want to hear any more about plagiarized cakes or transvestite bathrooms when their kid just died of an opioid overdose and they haven't had a job in 12 years.

Seriously, if you don't like Trump, you need to drop the cake-plagiarism sort of crap. It's quite literally why Trump won the election.

-W

sol

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #102 on: January 22, 2017, 07:03:18 PM »
Seriously, if you don't like Trump, you need to drop the cake-plagiarism sort of crap.

The only person who was upset about this was the guy who had his cake design stole, and he promptly said it was totally fine when he learned that the other guys had been asked to recreate his work, instead of them stealing it and claiming it as their own.

MDM

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #103 on: January 22, 2017, 07:22:36 PM »
Photos both at the same time according to WaPo, NYT, etc.
It's too bad they didn't show side-by-side photos of the crowds while each president was speaking.

Showing pictures at 11:15 AM allows Trump to say (correctly?) that the mall was filled when he was speaking (at ~12:15 PM).  Maybe he's right - if so, that would be an "alternative fact". ;)

Lagom

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #104 on: January 22, 2017, 07:58:22 PM »
Photos both at the same time according to WaPo, NYT, etc.
It's too bad they didn't show side-by-side photos of the crowds while each president was speaking.

Showing pictures at 11:15 AM allows Trump to say (correctly?) that the mall was filled when he was speaking (at ~12:15 PM).  Maybe he's right - if so, that would be an "alternative fact". ;)

So you are asking us: what if his claim that has no basis in factual evidence is true?

marty998

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #105 on: January 22, 2017, 08:06:11 PM »
Photos both at the same time according to WaPo, NYT, etc.
It's too bad they didn't show side-by-side photos of the crowds while each president was speaking.

Showing pictures at 11:15 AM allows Trump to say (correctly?) that the mall was filled when he was speaking (at ~12:15 PM).  Maybe he's right - if so, that would be an "alternative fact". ;)

So you are asking us: what if his claim that has no basis in factual evidence is true?

You should know this is how conservatives argue.

They put out a statement. Whether it is a known falsehood or not is irrelevant. The fact that Liberals starts debating it means it suddenly has legitimacy, even if you tear it to shreads.

I hate it. See it too often down here in Australia. It's another unfortunate thing we have learned from you guys.

waltworks

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #106 on: January 22, 2017, 08:23:11 PM »
Photos both at the same time according to WaPo, NYT, etc.
It's too bad they didn't show side-by-side photos of the crowds while each president was speaking.

Showing pictures at 11:15 AM allows Trump to say (correctly?) that the mall was filled when he was speaking (at ~12:15 PM).  Maybe he's right - if so, that would be an "alternative fact". ;)

Loads of side-by-side photos (and time-lapse of the Trump event so you can see if the crowd gets big at any point during the entire event):
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/22/trump-inauguration-crowd-sean-spicers-claims-versus-the-evidence

-W

MDM

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #107 on: January 22, 2017, 08:31:02 PM »
Loads of side-by-side photos (and time-lapse of the Trump event so you can see if the crowd gets big at any point during the entire event):
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/22/trump-inauguration-crowd-sean-spicers-claims-versus-the-evidence
Excellent, thanks!  That's what I was looking for.

So you are asking us: what if his claim that has no basis in factual evidence is true?
You should know this is how conservatives argue.
They put out a statement. Whether it is a known falsehood or not is irrelevant. The fact that Liberals starts debating it means it suddenly has legitimacy, even if you tear it to shreads.
I hate it. See it too often down here in Australia. It's another unfortunate thing we have learned from you guys.
marty998
Lagom

Rather than assuming things not in evidence about another poster, perhaps you might follow waltworks' example and simply answer a straightforward question with a straightforward answer.  This tends to lead to better communication....

Lagom

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #108 on: January 22, 2017, 08:49:14 PM »
MDM, rather than ignore evidence that was already presented only to instead take the word of a known serial liar as plausible (edit - whose claim at a minimum I hope you will acknowledge itself was presented without evidence), perhaps you might not ask ridiculous rhetorical questions when it's obvious that they are ridiculous. Tends to lead towards better communication.

Even if you want to claim we had not yet proven anything in this thread, the source and others similar that walt provided would have taken you literally 10 seconds of googling to locate. I find communication is elevated when all parties do at least that much basic research before expressing an opinion on something.

But I am relieved to hear you are now taking this evidence into account that definitively proves our now commander in chief continues to blatantly lie on a daily basis, and also recruits his top advisers to perpetuate the lies far and wide. I'm sure your conclusion will be that you don't care or its not important, but I'll take what I can get.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 09:17:42 PM by Lagom »

FIRE me

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #109 on: January 22, 2017, 09:33:39 PM »
Does anyone know the time each of the crowd pictures shown was taken?  If they were both taken ~12:15 PM, then it seems a fair enough comparison. 

Surely the cold rain kept some people from showing up.

Based on a quick google, it looks like both of Obama's inaugurations were cold but dry.

A cold rain was forecast and did materialize for Trump's. You can bundle up for the cold, but rain tends to be pretty miserable, especially when umbrellas are restricted.
FIRE'd on January 4, 2017

MDM

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #110 on: January 22, 2017, 09:34:41 PM »
MDM, rather than ignore evidence that was already presented only to instead take the word of a known serial liar as plausible (edit - whose claim at a minimum I hope you will acknowledge itself was presented without evidence), perhaps you might not ask ridiculous rhetorical questions when it's obvious that they are ridiculous. Tends to lead towards better communication.

Even if you want to claim we had not yet proven anything in this thread, the source and others similar that walt provided would have taken you literally 10 seconds of googling to locate. I find communication is elevated when all parties do at least that much basic research before expressing an opinion on something.

But I am relieved to hear you are now taking this evidence into account that definitively proves our now commander in chief continues to blatantly lie on a daily basis, and also recruits his top advisers to perpetuate the lies far and wide. I'm sure your conclusion will be that you don't care or its not important, but I'll take what I can get.
I already said "...a Trump official implies/states the pictures were taken at different times (without specifying when)" - acknowledgement enough for you?

Again, you mistake simple and straightforward for "ridiculous rhetoric...".  Is it so hard to believe that sometimes when people ask a question, it's because they don't know the answer and hope someone else does?  Or does that apply only in the "Ask A Mustachian" board? ;)

Your google-fu may indeed be awesome but many multiples of 10 seconds from mine did not uncover what waltworks so kindly provided.

I tend not to believe most of what I hear from rabid partisans on either side.  Unfortunately there aren't many honest news brokers out there, and even fact-checkers aren't always unbiased.  As the saying goes, “In God we trust; all others bring data.”

Lagom

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #111 on: January 22, 2017, 09:49:06 PM »
Hey, OK, I believe you. I mean, some people literally do believe the lies in the face of all evidence. It gets hard to differentiate sometimes. My bad.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #112 on: January 22, 2017, 09:53:38 PM »
Does anyone know the time each of the crowd pictures shown was taken?  If they were both taken ~12:15 PM, then it seems a fair enough comparison. 

Surely the cold rain kept some people from showing up.

Based on a quick google, it looks like both of Obama's inaugurations were cold but dry.

A cold rain was forecast and did materialize for Trump's. You can bundle up for the cold, but rain tends to be pretty miserable, especially when umbrellas are restricted.
And there was a vast difference in attendance between Obama's two inaugurations as well. I'm not quite sure  what this is supposed to prove, anyway.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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Lagom

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #113 on: January 22, 2017, 09:55:48 PM »
Does anyone know the time each of the crowd pictures shown was taken?  If they were both taken ~12:15 PM, then it seems a fair enough comparison. 

Surely the cold rain kept some people from showing up.

Based on a quick google, it looks like both of Obama's inaugurations were cold but dry.

A cold rain was forecast and did materialize for Trump's. You can bundle up for the cold, but rain tends to be pretty miserable, especially when umbrellas are restricted.
And there was a vast difference in attendance between Obama's two inaugurations as well. I'm not quite sure  what this is supposed to prove, anyway.

It's all smoke and mirrors anyway. All the better to ram through Betsy Davos and friends.

MDM

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #114 on: January 22, 2017, 10:03:23 PM »
Hey, OK, I believe you. I mean, some people literally do believe the lies in the face of all evidence. It gets hard to differentiate sometimes. My bad.
No problem.  Despite the download/upload speeds offered by many ISPs, the bandwidth of internet forum conversations remains abysmally slow.  Things that could be resolved quickly across a table can drag on and on in a forum, so I understand and agree with the differentiation difficulty.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #115 on: January 22, 2017, 10:19:36 PM »
I don't get the cake thing either. Being offended by this is just playing into the hands of people who say you're out of touch with middle America, who don't want to hear any more about plagiarized cakes or transvestite bathrooms when their kid just died of an opioid overdose and they haven't had a job in 12 years.

Seriously, if you don't like Trump, you need to drop the cake-plagiarism sort of crap. It's quite literally why Trump won the election.

-W
Comparing some coverage of the opiod conundrum, here is the LA Times from May of 2016 on the role of prescription drugs in initiating the cycle of addiction, as an example of coastal MSM coverage:
http://www.latimes.com/projects/oxycontin-part1/

By comparison, Trump's policy solution (astoundingly!) is his infamous wall:
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/769539271678013440

Here is Hillary's campaign position:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/09/02/combat-addiction/

The suggestion the left in general or the media in particular is blind to such problems does not seem accurate. It is true investigative and long-form journalism finds it hard to compete in the age of the tweet, and because of that, there is less incentive for profit-oriented media to go to such lengths to generate copy when clicks can be generated much more easily. Furthermore, the 24 hour news cycle leads to increased salience in trivia and a reduction of stories of substance (I referenced the cake story and Trump's other recent in-character gaffs in part as an ironic take on this phenomenon--and also, because this is a thread about the inauguration which is an elaborate ritual rather than a policy debate). I still hold out a 0.1% chance that Trump has calculated all of this and is secretly a 4-dimensional-chess-playing mastermind manipulating his own media coverage in fine detail.

The problems with the left in posing a credibl countervailing philosophy of governance isn't as simple as myopia to a particular set of problems. One serious issue is one of marketing their ideas. Yes, Hillary had a policy position on drug addiction, and one on immigration, and one on...just about everything. And that was precisely the problem. Nobody is motivated by donkish policy proposals but a fair number of people can be motivated through demagoguery, even if it isn't backed up with any intellectual rigor (and in Trump's case, that was a feature, not a bug). As another example, no one I spoke to who voted for Trump knew that Obama deported >2M people or that he was branded as "deporter-in-chief" as a result. To them, to the extent they cared about illegal immigration, Trump was offering a new direction. Politics isn't about policies.

The second problem was covered a while ago by vox regarding the smugness of US liberals:
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
No one wants to follow you as a leader if you start out by making them feel inferior. Again, that's a problem of tactics and not of substance.


Proud Foot

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #116 on: January 23, 2017, 08:34:50 AM »
I've borrowed "The Purge" series from my library to watch today. Saving the most appropriate one for last ;-) In other word not watching the inauguration. Would be out skiing like Waltworks but too stormy.

My wife and I watched this before the election and my wife half seriously asked me if the purge would happen if Trump became President. 

As far as the inauguration, I did not watch it and chose not to see too much of it. I think it is absurd the denial by the new POTUS and his administration about the size of the attendance.  I could not care less about the size of the attendance and don't think it is fair to compare it to Obama's first inauguration.  That was something that was truly historic while this one was back to the status quo.  IMO nothing to be ashamed of, but of course Trump has to be the best and if he is confronted by facts stating otherwise then the facts are not true!

deadlymonkey

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #117 on: January 23, 2017, 09:12:58 AM »
I've borrowed "The Purge" series from my library to watch today. Saving the most appropriate one for last ;-) In other word not watching the inauguration. Would be out skiing like Waltworks but too stormy.

My wife and I watched this before the election and my wife half seriously asked me if the purge would happen if Trump became President. 

As far as the inauguration, I did not watch it and chose not to see too much of it. I think it is absurd the denial by the new POTUS and his administration about the size of the attendance.  I could not care less about the size of the attendance and don't think it is fair to compare it to Obama's first inauguration.  That was something that was truly historic while this one was back to the status quo.  IMO nothing to be ashamed of, but of course Trump has to be the best and if he is confronted by facts stating otherwise then the facts are not true!

That is the ridiculous part.  Of course Obama's inauguration would be bigger.  It was historic, and DC is a very democratic city and the surrounding area is heavily democratic.  Democrat Inaugurations are almost always going to be bigger.  Trump could have ignored the story and made a funny quip like "Still bigger than Hillary's."  He might get some laughs and the story dies and we move on. 

He couldn't do that, he has to somehow prove that some crazy solar reflection obscured hundreds of thousands of people that just look invisible on film but were really there.  That is textbook narcissism and just crazy that we are going to have to endure that until he is inevitably impeached.

ysette9

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #118 on: January 23, 2017, 04:37:19 PM »
Until he started talking about it, it would have never occurred to me to think about comparing inauguration crowd sizes. Now that he brought it up, it does make him look unpopular. Bitching about it makes him look like petulant, childish, and unpopular. Grow up, for god's sake!
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Kris

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2017, 05:05:05 PM »
Until he started talking about it, it would have never occurred to me to think about comparing inauguration crowd sizes. Now that he brought it up, it does make him look unpopular. Bitching about it makes him look like petulant, childish, and unpopular. Grow up, for god's sake!

Exactly. Whenever I see someone say, "Who cares about size?" I think, "Um, the President of the United States?"
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

jim555

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #120 on: January 23, 2017, 05:09:08 PM »
Trump declared January 20, 2017, as "National Day of Patriotic Devotion"  I am not making this up. 
LOL
--
NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United
States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by
the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby
proclaim January 20, 2017, as National Day of Patriotic
Devotion, in order to strengthen our bonds to each other and to
our country -- and to renew the duties of Government to the
people.
--
Sorta echos a Nationalist Movement in Germany from the 1930s.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 05:11:47 PM by jim555 »

Metric Mouse

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #121 on: January 23, 2017, 10:04:54 PM »
Until he started talking about it, it would have never occurred to me to think about comparing inauguration crowd sizes. Now that he brought it up, it does make him look unpopular. Bitching about it makes him look like petulant, childish, and unpopular. Grow up, for god's sake!
To be fair, he didn't bring it up. It began with a post on a governmental agency's twitter account that directly compared the crowd sizes, against departmental policy. Trump got offended (or his administration did), but he wasn't the one who started the conversation.
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sol

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #122 on: January 23, 2017, 10:20:45 PM »
To be fair, he didn't bring it up. It began with a post on a governmental agency's twitter account that directly compared the crowd sizes, against departmental policy. Trump got offended (or his administration did), but he wasn't the one who started the conversation.

To be fair, this is a lie.  The NPS retweeted someone ele's side by side photos of the inauguration crowd, as part of their series of tweets covering the inauguration.  They did not begin it. 

Metric Mouse

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #123 on: January 23, 2017, 10:40:21 PM »
To be fair, he didn't bring it up. It began with a post on a governmental agency's twitter account that directly compared the crowd sizes, against departmental policy. Trump got offended (or his administration did), but he wasn't the one who started the conversation.

To be fair, this is a lie.  The NPS retweeted someone ele's side by side photos of the inauguration crowd, as part of their series of tweets covering the inauguration.  They did not begin it.

Ok. So the NPS retweeted a tweet that was against departmental policy. Mea culpa. I was incorrect: Trump was 3rd or fourth in line, not second, and clearly not the originator of the size comparison.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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ncornilsen

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #124 on: January 24, 2017, 08:09:29 AM »
The thing about this inauguration I'm most ashamed of is that so much political discourse has anything, at all, to do with twitter. For fucks sake.


golden1

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #125 on: January 24, 2017, 11:43:32 AM »
I felt like I was watching the exact moment my country turned into a joke. 

Paul der Krake

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #126 on: January 24, 2017, 02:09:23 PM »
I felt like I was watching the exact moment my country turned into a joke.
Don't worry- US politics have been widely mocked for the last decade. This was just the icing on the cake.

Gal2016

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #127 on: January 24, 2017, 02:58:00 PM »
I woke up in the middle of the night last night and had trouble falling back asleep due to the pit of dread I felt in my stomach. I tried hard to distract myself but late at night it was hard to avoid the thought of the inauguration. It is embarrassing and scary to be an American right now. I am ashamed of my country.

I felt this same exact way on election day. Dread and a sick feeling in my stomach that Hillary Clinton would likely be our next President.  Embarrassment as a woman that THIS was the best we could do. 

I had told my husband prior to the election that all the polls were wrong and that Trump would win (false bravado and hopefully thinking). Certainly, people could see how badly our country had done over the last 7 years? Riots and murders and the oh-so-politically-correct policing our every thought and word. Talk about oppressive dystopia and the book, "1984". Ugh. We have gotten a glimpse.

And now! Relief!-- We dodged the Hillary bullet.  That was a big win. Now, we move forward with nervous excitement. We've elected a NON-POLITICIAN. This is new territory. Maybe, just maybe things will get better.  Perhaps, our society will become more responsible, more self-aware (its not about YOU) and more productive.  Maybe our kids will be pressured to do good rather than have sex at the earliest age possible ("hey, we're all sexual beings") and do drugs ("hey, alcohol is worse") and feel oh-so-special without ever striving to do anything special. I'm ready for the age of Kardashianism and "micro-aggressions" to be put behind us.

And, really, I could care less that Trump made crude comments in private about the gold-diggers who were chasing after him over a decade ago. He and they knew what was going on and voluntarily participated in those shenanigans.  (Well, until they thought they could get some $$ and publicity out of the deal during election season).  Please.

So, count me as excited and hopeful!

Wexler

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #128 on: January 24, 2017, 04:15:31 PM »
I woke up in the middle of the night last night and had trouble falling back asleep due to the pit of dread I felt in my stomach. I tried hard to distract myself but late at night it was hard to avoid the thought of the inauguration. It is embarrassing and scary to be an American right now. I am ashamed of my country.

I felt this same exact way on election day. Dread and a sick feeling in my stomach that Hillary Clinton would likely be our next President.  Embarrassment as a woman that THIS was the best we could do. 

I had told my husband prior to the election that all the polls were wrong and that Trump would win (false bravado and hopefully thinking). Certainly, people could see how badly our country had done over the last 7 years? Riots and murders and the oh-so-politically-correct policing our every thought and word. Talk about oppressive dystopia and the book, "1984". Ugh. We have gotten a glimpse.

And now! Relief!-- We dodged the Hillary bullet.  That was a big win. Now, we move forward with nervous excitement. We've elected a NON-POLITICIAN. This is new territory. Maybe, just maybe things will get better.  Perhaps, our society will become more responsible, more self-aware (its not about YOU) and more productive.  Maybe our kids will be pressured to do good rather than have sex at the earliest age possible ("hey, we're all sexual beings") and do drugs ("hey, alcohol is worse") and feel oh-so-special without ever striving to do anything special. I'm ready for the age of Kardashianism and "micro-aggressions" to be put behind us.

And, really, I could care less that Trump made crude comments in private about the gold-diggers who were chasing after him over a decade ago. He and they knew what was going on and voluntarily participated in those shenanigans.  (Well, until they thought they could get some $$ and publicity out of the deal during election season).  Please.

So, count me as excited and hopeful!

Gal-where do you even live?  Do you live in our dystopian future (is there a RoboCop? Terminator?  Any robots, good or evil?), because nothing you've written even remotely describes the present as I see it and, frankly, as the data shows. I think at least you have to acknowledge that your thoughts aren't being policed, since you are here on the internet writing some pretty wild stuff. 


waltworks

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #129 on: January 24, 2017, 04:22:46 PM »
Yes, Trump definitely got the get-off-my-lawn vote.

As for the Kardashians, I think electing a reality TV star is unlikely to reduce the popularity of reality TV.

Just FYI, too, your concerns about all that out-of-control teenage sex? The opposite has happened over the last 30 years or so (and the trend continues today):
https://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/

Money quote: "In 2014, a total of 249,078 babies were born to women aged 15–19 years, for a birth rate of 24.2 per 1,000 women in this age group.  This is another historic low for U.S. teens and a drop of 9% from 2013."

Drugs? Use is down on basically everything across the board:
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/monitoring-future-survey-high-school-youth-trends


The kids are all right, folks.

-W
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 05:27:40 PM by waltworks »

Gal2016

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #130 on: January 25, 2017, 10:15:10 AM »
I woke up in the middle of the night last night and had trouble falling back asleep due to the pit of dread I felt in my stomach. I tried hard to distract myself but late at night it was hard to avoid the thought of the inauguration. It is embarrassing and scary to be an American right now. I am ashamed of my country.

I felt this same exact way on election day. Dread and a sick feeling in my stomach that Hillary Clinton would likely be our next President.  Embarrassment as a woman that THIS was the best we could do. 

I had told my husband prior to the election that all the polls were wrong and that Trump would win (false bravado and hopefully thinking). Certainly, people could see how badly our country had done over the last 7 years? Riots and murders and the oh-so-politically-correct policing our every thought and word. Talk about oppressive dystopia and the book, "1984". Ugh. We have gotten a glimpse.

And now! Relief!-- We dodged the Hillary bullet.  That was a big win. Now, we move forward with nervous excitement. We've elected a NON-POLITICIAN. This is new territory. Maybe, just maybe things will get better.  Perhaps, our society will become more responsible, more self-aware (its not about YOU) and more productive.  Maybe our kids will be pressured to do good rather than have sex at the earliest age possible ("hey, we're all sexual beings") and do drugs ("hey, alcohol is worse") and feel oh-so-special without ever striving to do anything special. I'm ready for the age of Kardashianism and "micro-aggressions" to be put behind us.

And, really, I could care less that Trump made crude comments in private about the gold-diggers who were chasing after him over a decade ago. He and they knew what was going on and voluntarily participated in those shenanigans.  (Well, until they thought they could get some $$ and publicity out of the deal during election season).  Please.

So, count me as excited and hopeful!

Gal-where do you even live?  Do you live in our dystopian future (is there a RoboCop? Terminator?  Any robots, good or evil?), because nothing you've written even remotely describes the present as I see it and, frankly, as the data shows. I think at least you have to acknowledge that your thoughts aren't being policed, since you are here on the internet writing some pretty wild stuff.

So. Have you actually read "1984"?

Generally, those who think the same thoughts as the progressive-thought-police aren't going to think there's anything wrong with it.  You've drank the kool-aid. The real world cannot be explained to you -- which is why you're probably still scratching your head wondering how all of the people who voted for Trump can be such racist, terrible people. Gosh, you probably even KNOW some of them and didn't even realize how terrible they are...

Wexler

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #131 on: January 25, 2017, 10:30:13 AM »
I woke up in the middle of the night last night and had trouble falling back asleep due to the pit of dread I felt in my stomach. I tried hard to distract myself but late at night it was hard to avoid the thought of the inauguration. It is embarrassing and scary to be an American right now. I am ashamed of my country.

I felt this same exact way on election day. Dread and a sick feeling in my stomach that Hillary Clinton would likely be our next President.  Embarrassment as a woman that THIS was the best we could do. 

I had told my husband prior to the election that all the polls were wrong and that Trump would win (false bravado and hopefully thinking). Certainly, people could see how badly our country had done over the last 7 years? Riots and murders and the oh-so-politically-correct policing our every thought and word. Talk about oppressive dystopia and the book, "1984". Ugh. We have gotten a glimpse.

And now! Relief!-- We dodged the Hillary bullet.  That was a big win. Now, we move forward with nervous excitement. We've elected a NON-POLITICIAN. This is new territory. Maybe, just maybe things will get better.  Perhaps, our society will become more responsible, more self-aware (its not about YOU) and more productive.  Maybe our kids will be pressured to do good rather than have sex at the earliest age possible ("hey, we're all sexual beings") and do drugs ("hey, alcohol is worse") and feel oh-so-special without ever striving to do anything special. I'm ready for the age of Kardashianism and "micro-aggressions" to be put behind us.

And, really, I could care less that Trump made crude comments in private about the gold-diggers who were chasing after him over a decade ago. He and they knew what was going on and voluntarily participated in those shenanigans.  (Well, until they thought they could get some $$ and publicity out of the deal during election season).  Please.

So, count me as excited and hopeful!

Gal-where do you even live?  Do you live in our dystopian future (is there a RoboCop? Terminator?  Any robots, good or evil?), because nothing you've written even remotely describes the present as I see it and, frankly, as the data shows. I think at least you have to acknowledge that your thoughts aren't being policed, since you are here on the internet writing some pretty wild stuff.

So. Have you actually read "1984"?

Generally, those who think the same thoughts as the progressive-thought-police aren't going to think there's anything wrong with it.  You've drank the kool-aid. The real world cannot be explained to you -- which is why you're probably still scratching your head wondering how all of the people who voted for Trump can be such racist, terrible people. Gosh, you probably even KNOW some of them and didn't even realize how terrible they are...

I guess I don't understand the real world then.  You know, the one in which teen pregnancy rates and sexual activity rates and abortion rates are dropping.  The one in which violent crime is on a long downward trend.  Or the one in which the world is more stable and less violent than it used to be.  The one in which my rate of return on my 401(k) was excellent over the Obama presidency.

 You are correct that the "real" world described above cannot be explained to me.  Because it is not based on any observable evidence.  But I am flexible and willing to change my views in the face of evidence.  If you are ever arrested because of the progressive thought police, please let me know, and I will contribute towards your legal defense.  However, people disagreeing with you on the internet does not constitute thought policing.
   

Gal2016

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #132 on: January 25, 2017, 10:40:17 AM »
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

deadlymonkey

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #133 on: January 25, 2017, 10:54:07 AM »
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.

Mr Dorothy Dollar

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #134 on: January 25, 2017, 11:19:18 AM »
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.

As a gay guy, I like this exchange. And will quietly wait for any sense to be made. It seems she is advocating that she is a victim due to people calling her out on viewpoints that are not fact based. Maybe if I understood her viewpoint on what oppression (apparently being called out for a viewpoint) is she could understand the oppression I face (fear of being curb stomped, marriage invalidation attempts in TX, daily prejudice).
My gay money blog: Dorothy Dollar

waltworks

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #135 on: January 25, 2017, 12:12:39 PM »
I don't think you're a racist, but I question your statements that American youth are corrupted (presumably by liberalism) when the numbers tell a different story.

The reality TV thing is just absolutely nonsensical, too. If there's someone who personifies reality TV, it's Donald Trump. Now, I don't know if that's good or bad (I have never owned a TV) but it's hard to complain about the Kardashians in the context of proclaiming Trump the best ever.

But hey, you want to vote me/my rich friends some more tax cuts? Awesome. Thanks.

-W

KBecks

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #136 on: January 25, 2017, 12:39:31 PM »


The kids are all right, folks.

-W

Herion use in adults ages 18- 25 is on the rise and it's a huge problem.  The "kids" are actually over 18, but this is a real concern that families are struggling with.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/scope-heroin-use-in-united-states
in 2012 about 669,000 Americans reported using heroin in the past year,1 a number that has been on the rise since 2007. This trend appears to be driven largely by young adults aged 18–25 among whom there have been the greatest increases. The number of people using heroin for the first time is unacceptably high, with 156,000 people starting heroin use in 2012, nearly double the number of people in 2006 (90,000). In contrast, heroin use has been declining among teens aged 12–17.

As for fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions, hallelujia! 


RosieTR

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #137 on: January 25, 2017, 01:00:59 PM »

Gal2016

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #138 on: January 25, 2017, 01:43:32 PM »
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.

I'm just laughing at this assertion.  I doubt we would have had all those shocked and grieving liberals who couldn't go to work or attend college classes if the polls were that close.  5% is the usual margin.  Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least.  Clinton was gobsmacked.

Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country... I don't think the liberals were expecting that.

golden1

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #139 on: January 25, 2017, 02:10:27 PM »
Quote
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

From what I understand, there was a lack of quality polling in many states this time around.  It wasn't considered a problem because people made certain incorrect assumptions.

I understand your fear of being culturally marginalized and it is legit, but can you understand the fear of other American citizens of Trump?  I feel like you are guilty of what you are complaining about - ignoring the legitimate feelings of other Americans.  It is really easy to have empathy for those who share your culture, but can you understand that there are people, also citizens like you, who are scared and dismayed about Trump?  Or are they less human because they don't share your culture and values? 

waltworks

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #140 on: January 25, 2017, 02:29:09 PM »


The kids are all right, folks.

-W

Herion use in adults ages 18- 25 is on the rise and it's a huge problem.  The "kids" are actually over 18, but this is a real concern that families are struggling with.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/scope-heroin-use-in-united-states
in 2012 about 669,000 Americans reported using heroin in the past year,1 a number that has been on the rise since 2007. This trend appears to be driven largely by young adults aged 18–25 among whom there have been the greatest increases. The number of people using heroin for the first time is unacceptably high, with 156,000 people starting heroin use in 2012, nearly double the number of people in 2006 (90,000). In contrast, heroin use has been declining among teens aged 12–17.

As for fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions, hallelujia!

Indeed. You can thank the pharmaceutical industry and opioid overprescription for that one. It is quite a disaster. There are even billboards here in UT advocating refusing opioids entirely even if you have had surgery - just too risky for many people.

-W

Kris

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #141 on: January 25, 2017, 02:41:11 PM »


The kids are all right, folks.

-W

Herion use in adults ages 18- 25 is on the rise and it's a huge problem.  The "kids" are actually over 18, but this is a real concern that families are struggling with.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/scope-heroin-use-in-united-states
in 2012 about 669,000 Americans reported using heroin in the past year,1 a number that has been on the rise since 2007. This trend appears to be driven largely by young adults aged 18–25 among whom there have been the greatest increases. The number of people using heroin for the first time is unacceptably high, with 156,000 people starting heroin use in 2012, nearly double the number of people in 2006 (90,000). In contrast, heroin use has been declining among teens aged 12–17.

As for fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions, hallelujia!

Actually. The biggest demopraphixpc of heroin abusers are white males 25-34.

And for opioid addiction, it's white males 45-54 from rural areas.
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/newsevents/ucm300859.pdf


Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

sol

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #142 on: January 25, 2017, 03:11:04 PM »
Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least.  Clinton was gobsmacked.

Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country... I don't think the liberals were expecting that.

Your memory is different than mine.  I remember Clinton leading by 3 to 8 percent much of the time, with Trump tied or barely leading the popular vote once in a while, and pulling to within two percent the final 10 days after the FBI announced an email investigation.

Not surprisingly, the final vote was also Clinton by about two percent.  The polls were right.

Do you remember something different?

MDM

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #143 on: January 25, 2017, 03:20:22 PM »

Kris

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #144 on: January 25, 2017, 03:21:46 PM »
A couple of sources if one wants to cite polls vs. reality for the election:

http://pollyvote.com/en/2016/11/09/a-terrible-day-for-election-forecasters-where-are-the-winners/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html

I think sol's memory come closer to what those links show.

Yes, but Gal2016 comes closer to Trump's.

Alternative truths, y'all.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #145 on: January 25, 2017, 08:15:33 PM »
How do you explain away the polling results prior to the election? -- was it, perhaps, that people were "afraid" of the response they'd get if they "admitted" that they planned to vote for Trump? -- so they either lied or refused to answer?  Seriously.  Conservatives have a very real fear of openly stating their thoughts, ideals, and viewpoints and I admire those who take a stand against the "moral outrage" they get from the liberals when they state that they don't agree with the progressive ideal.  Just like being called a "troll" and being labeled a "racist" on these boards ...  You don't "get it", but the election results prove that our citizens are secretly tired of it and will vote accordingly in the privacy of the poll-booth.

Actually most polls were pretty accurate.  Nationally, he was down a bit and that bore out in the popular vote.  In state polls his margin of victory was within the margin of error on most polls.  It just seemed that the result broke towards him in almost all instances, but still within the margin.

I'm just laughing at this assertion.  I doubt we would have had all those shocked and grieving liberals who couldn't go to work or attend college classes if the polls were that close.  5% is the usual margin.  Most polls showed Clinton with a 20% lead, at least.  Clinton was gobsmacked.

Trump won, what, 90% of the counties in the entire country... I don't think the liberals were expecting that.
Not a single poll showed Clinton with a 20% national lead. I followed Nate Silver's 538 analysis all the way through and he pointed out the national poll aggregate was actually closer to the actual outcome than is normal for presidential elections. He and his team also wrote extensively on the scenarios under which Trump could win and how it was rational to expect correlations among state polling errors that would increase the uncertainty of outcome. That's why he had Trump at ~30%. You can argue Silver was just covering his ass but it turned out to be a good move regardless. Fools, like Wang at Princeton Election Consortium went all-in on national level polls and implicitly eliminated the possibility of state poll error correlations from their models. It was only models like Wang's that gave HC absurdly high chances of winning (>99% on PEC, lol!).

Metric Mouse

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #146 on: January 25, 2017, 09:46:45 PM »
Nate Silver was one of the few who predicted a Trump win was even in the relm of possibilities. Very few others thought Trump was even a possibility of a win, despite the polls clearly showing otherwise. There was the famous example of a betting parlor in Ireland paying out for Clinton bets in September.  They had several million in losses they had to eat in November.

That doesn't change the fact that Clinton lost to Donald Fucking Trump.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 09:53:49 PM by Metric Mouse »
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sol

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #147 on: January 25, 2017, 10:32:27 PM »
Nate Silver was one of the few who predicted a Trump win was even in the relm of possibilities. Very few others thought Trump was even a possibility of a win, despite the polls clearly showing otherwise. There was the famous example of a betting parlor in Ireland paying out for Clinton bets in September.  They had several million in losses they had to eat in November.

That doesn't change the fact that Clinton lost to Donald Fucking Trump.

Most people didn't believe it was possible to lose the popular vote by three million votes and still win the electoral college.  I sort of understand why they thought such a dramatic lead in the popular vote would lead to an electoral college win.

The country voted decidedly for Clinton, but it didn't matter.  Trump won the right combination of key minority states to put together an electoral college victory, so he gets to be President even though most Americans hate him. Even though he has the lowest approval rating of any incoming president.  Even though people boycotted his inauguration and protested all over the country.  None of that matters, since he won that magic combination of minority states.

The really sad part, to me, is how congress played out.  The House of Representatives is supposed to represent the will of the people, and yet Republicans hold 55.4% of the seats (and thus 100% of the power) even though they only got 48.7% of the votes.  That system is genuinely fucked up.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #148 on: January 25, 2017, 11:37:16 PM »
Nate Silver was one of the few who predicted a Trump win was even in the relm of possibilities. Very few others thought Trump was even a possibility of a win, despite the polls clearly showing otherwise. There was the famous example of a betting parlor in Ireland paying out for Clinton bets in September.  They had several million in losses they had to eat in November.

That doesn't change the fact that Clinton lost to Donald Fucking Trump.

Most people didn't believe it was possible to lose the popular vote by three million votes and still win the electoral college.  I sort of understand why they thought such a dramatic lead in the popular vote would lead to an electoral college win.

The country voted decidedly for Clinton, but it didn't matter.  Trump won the right combination of key minority states to put together an electoral college victory, so he gets to be President even though most Americans hate him. Even though he has the lowest approval rating of any incoming president.  Even though people boycotted his inauguration and protested all over the country.  None of that matters, since he won that magic combination of minority states.

The really sad part, to me, is how congress played out.  The House of Representatives is supposed to represent the will of the people, and yet Republicans hold 55.4% of the seats (and thus 100% of the power) even though they only got 48.7% of the votes.  That system is genuinely fucked up.
The will of the people is something I'd argue we often don't want. The reasoning behind the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is to make it impossible to override certain principles with a mere majority. Would you feel better if a different party (or merely one without Trump at the helm) had 48% of the vote but 55% of the representation? If so, you are being inconsistent.

There is no perfect electoral decision process because you will always violate a "reasonable" criteria desirable in voting, as indicated in Arrow's Impossibility Theorem. The issue, as pointed out by David Deutsch in The Beginning of Infinity, is not with the particular electoral calculus in effect but the ability of a given electoral system to correct errors. To the extent the Affordable Health Care Act was a mistake, we might see reversals soon; to the extent Trump and the current slate of sycophant Republicans are mistakes, we will hopefully see a reversal in the future. If not, maybe our system wasn't that robust to begin with and itself needs to be replaced...

Unique User

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Re: Your reaction to the inauguration?
« Reply #149 on: January 26, 2017, 06:34:02 AM »


The kids are all right, folks.

-W

Herion use in adults ages 18- 25 is on the rise and it's a huge problem.  The "kids" are actually over 18, but this is a real concern that families are struggling with.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/scope-heroin-use-in-united-states
in 2012 about 669,000 Americans reported using heroin in the past year,1 a number that has been on the rise since 2007. This trend appears to be driven largely by young adults aged 18–25 among whom there have been the greatest increases. The number of people using heroin for the first time is unacceptably high, with 156,000 people starting heroin use in 2012, nearly double the number of people in 2006 (90,000). In contrast, heroin use has been declining among teens aged 12–17.

As for fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions, hallelujia!

Actually. The biggest demopraphixpc of heroin abusers are white males 25-34.

And for opioid addiction, it's white males 45-54 from rural areas.
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/newsevents/ucm300859.pdf

The second I read that I wondered how much of the heroin use was white males.  And thanks for the addition on opioid addiction, Bill Maher addressed it well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4BWjaLqVqE

Gal2016 must be from one of the areas where this is rampant, because in my leafy area of a solidly blue city - the world she describes does not exist.