Words/phrases I wish would go away

[Paul der Krake]

Suddenly I'm reminded about my own French lessons. "Just don't pronounce half the letters. They're all silent."

Sounds similar to what one of my French teachers liked to say: “There’s a rule for it, but there are so many exceptions that there’s no point learning the rule” Um.... ok...?

Oui c'e la vi

[Tigerpine]

Whinging...with that extraneous "g" in the middle.  Listen, I when I complain, I whine, dammit!  I don't whinge! :)

[FIRE Artist]

Whinging...with that extraneous "g" in the middle.  Listen, I when I complain, I whine, dammit!  I don't whinge! :)

It is an actual word with an actual meaning, which is generally considered to be different than whining. This is commonly used in the UK.

[RetiredAt63]

Suddenly I'm reminded about my own French lessons. "Just don't pronounce half the letters. They're all silent."

And as Josh Freed wrote in The Anglo Guide to Quebec, if you need a French word, think of the fanciest word for something in Englsh and give it a French pronunciation.  It works surprisingly well.

[shelivesthedream]

Whinging...with that extraneous "g" in the middle.  Listen, I when I complain, I whine, dammit!  I don't whinge! :)

It is an actual word with an actual meaning, which is generally considered to be different than whining. This is commonly used in the UK.

+1, and I think your complaining repertoire is impoverished by confining yourself to whining. Broaden your mind and winge a little!

[Tigerpine]

Whinging...with that extraneous "g" in the middle.  Listen, I when I complain, I whine, dammit!  I don't whinge! :)

It is an actual word with an actual meaning, which is generally considered to be different than whining. This is commonly used in the UK.

Really?  Wow, that's new to me.  I learned something today.

Whinging...with that extraneous "g" in the middle.  Listen, I when I complain, I whine, dammit!  I don't whinge! :)

It is an actual word with an actual meaning, which is generally considered to be different than whining. This is commonly used in the UK.

+1, and I think your complaining repertoire is impoverished by confining yourself to whining. Broaden your mind and winge a little!

Obviously so.  I'll have to start practicing "whinging" to get the hang of it.

[RetiredAt63]

Harry Potter introduced me to "whinging".  Excellent addition to my vocabulary.

[Kris]

I love the word “whinging”. Sounds vaguely onomatopoeic— like a rusty hinge.

[nereo]

So there is general agreement that ‘whinging’ is NOT a word or phrase we wish would go away?  Ok, good.

[Tigerpine]

I am struggling, though, to understand the difference between the two.  I googled their separate definitions (quickly, admittedly I did not spend a lot of time on this), and in the context of a person complaining, their definitions were too similar for me to differentiate much.

I used to think it was a misspelling.  Now that I realize it is an actual word and not a simple spelling error, I am ok with it.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

I've always thought that a dog can whine, but only a human can whinge.

[shelivesthedream]

Hm. Tough one. To me, whining describes a certain tone of voice whereas whinging is more about the content of the words. But it's hard to put my finger on.

[Tigerpine]

So, dogs and children whine, but adults (mostly) whinge?

For children, I'm imagining the kid making his/her case by saying, "But mo-o-m, I never get to (insert whatever you like here)!"

[MoseyingAlong]

Hm. Tough one. To me, whining describes a certain tone of voice whereas whinging is more about the content of the words. But it's hard to put my finger on.

After the posts yesterday, I looked it up. According to the first Google result, whining is complaining to complain. Whinging is complaining with the intent that someone will do something to fix it. Does that sound close to any peeps who use both?

[shelivesthedream]

Hm. Tough one. To me, whining describes a certain tone of voice whereas whinging is more about the content of the words. But it's hard to put my finger on.

After the posts yesterday, I looked it up. According to the first Google result, whining is complaining to complain. Whinging is complaining with the intent that someone will do something to fix it. Does that sound close to any peeps who use both?

I don't really recognise that at all! If anything I'd say it's the other way around. You whine at people, whereas whinging is basically marinading in your own petulance.

Tigerpine, if anything I would actually say that dogs whine and people whinge. In your example, and these really are fine grades of distinction, I would say that "Muuuuum, I never get to do anything! You're so uncool!" is whinging. But "Muuuuuum, can I go to Legoland? Can I? Can I? Pleeeeeeeaaaaaase!" is whining.

[BlueHouse]

I'm sure someone's already said this, but using "vice" instead of versus.  It's soooo common in Government. 

[Tigerpine]

Hm. Tough one. To me, whining describes a certain tone of voice whereas whinging is more about the content of the words. But it's hard to put my finger on.

After the posts yesterday, I looked it up. According to the first Google result, whining is complaining to complain. Whinging is complaining with the intent that someone will do something to fix it. Does that sound close to any peeps who use both?

I don't really recognise that at all! If anything I'd say it's the other way around. You whine at people, whereas whinging is basically marinading in your own petulance.

Tigerpine, if anything I would actually say that dogs whine and people whinge. In your example, and these really are fine grades of distinction, I would say that "Muuuuum, I never get to do anything! You're so uncool!" is whinging. But "Muuuuuum, can I go to Legoland? Can I? Can I? Pleeeeeeeaaaaaase!" is whining.

That's a great example!  In the past, I would have always said that both of your "Muuuuum" examples are whining, but I can actually make out a distincting between the two.  So, thank you for the enlightenment!

[calimom]

If a person is without complaint, are they unwhinged?

:P

[shelivesthedream]

Hm. Tough one. To me, whining describes a certain tone of voice whereas whinging is more about the content of the words. But it's hard to put my finger on.

After the posts yesterday, I looked it up. According to the first Google result, whining is complaining to complain. Whinging is complaining with the intent that someone will do something to fix it. Does that sound close to any peeps who use both?

I don't really recognise that at all! If anything I'd say it's the other way around. You whine at people, whereas whinging is basically marinading in your own petulance.

Tigerpine, if anything I would actually say that dogs whine and people whinge. In your example, and these really are fine grades of distinction, I would say that "Muuuuum, I never get to do anything! You're so uncool!" is whinging. But "Muuuuuum, can I go to Legoland? Can I? Can I? Pleeeeeeeaaaaaase!" is whining.

That's a great example!  In the past, I would have always said that both of your "Muuuuum" examples are whining, but I can actually make out a distincting between the two.  So, thank you for the enlightenment!

I'm so glad! :)

[Chaplin]

If a person is without complaint, are they unwhinged?

:P

Your use of language is quite ept.

[SunnyDays]

Suddenly I'm reminded about my own French lessons. "Just don't pronounce half the letters. They're all silent."

Sounds similar to what one of my French teachers liked to say: “There’s a rule for it, but there are so many exceptions that there’s no point learning the rule” Um.... ok...?

Yes, but you need to know the rules to know which half of the letters to not pronounce!

[Freedomin5]

I don't really recognise that at all! If anything I'd say it's the other way around. You whine at people, whereas whinging is basically marinading in your own petulance.

This phrase is awesome! 😂 We have so many negative Nellies at work. Whenever I hear complaining/whinging, I’m going to start telling people, “Please stop marinating in your own petulance.”

[John Galt incarnate!]

I am sick and tired of "narrative."

!!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!

[slackmax]

The words 'no evidence' used in spite of plenty of evidence presented. Someone doesn't want to believe the evidence, and just denies it. So annoying.   

[nereo]

Heard on the floor of the US Senate yesterday:
Irregardless. 

Regardless means "without regard".  Irregardless would mean "without without regard" - which is to say it's a useless word. Almost universally when the word "irregardless" is used the speaker should have simply said "regardless."  OED lists it as a "nonstandard" word.

[sui generis]

This is a pronunciation thing, but I've heard several people use the word "rhetoric" recently, but pronounce it Ruh-TOR-ik. Which, to be fair, if you've only ever read the word and you've often heard the word "rhetorical", maybe that's what happens?  But also while I really want this pronunciation to go away, I'm trying to have an open mind about how words change over time, so if y'all want to tell me this is becoming an accepted pronunciation now I will....get used to it eventually...

[dandarc]

Is it the ruh vs. reh in that pronunciation that bothers you? Because if that isn't the part that sounds off to you, I'm curious as to what your preferred pronunciation is.

[sui generis]

Is it the ruh vs. reh in that pronunciation that bothers you? Because if that isn't the part that sounds off to you, I'm curious as to what your preferred pronunciation is.

No, it's the emphasis on the second syllable (the TOR, like it is done with rhetorical), rather than the emphasis on the first syllable, like this: https://www.howmanysyllables.com/words/rhetoric

[nereo]

You put the em-PHA-sis on the wrong sil-LAB-bul

[iris lily]

I’m tired of people using the word “less” when they need to use “fewer.” I can’t cite the grammatical reason why this is the correct thing, I just know that it sounds wrong to my ear.

“I have less anxiety than I had at one time.”  Correct

“I have less apples in the refrigerator than I need for the week. “.  Incorrect

[sui generis]

I’m tired of people using the word “less” when they need to use “fewer.” I can’t cite the grammatical reason why this is the correct thing, I just know that it sounds wrong to my ear.

“I have less anxiety than I had at one time.”  Correct

“I have less apples in the refrigerator than I need for the week. “.  Incorrect

It's cuz if it's countable you use fewer. You can count the number of apples, but not the number of anxiety.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

I’m tired of people using the word “less” when they need to use “fewer.” I can’t cite the grammatical reason why this is the correct thing, I just know that it sounds wrong to my ear.

“I have less anxiety than I had at one time.”  Correct

“I have less apples in the refrigerator than I need for the week. “.  Incorrect

This bothers me too.

Likewise the erosion of the distinction between disinterested / uninterested

Likewise the use of singular 'they' in place of 'his or her' or 'his' or 'her'

I can understand the descriptivist approach to all of the above blah blah blah blah

It bothers me when we lose meaningful distinctions via the elision of separate concepts into one junky concept. When 'less' and 'fewer' mean the same thing, why have both words at all? And if we have both words being commonly used, why not try to observe the distinction?

It's just an endorsement of lazy thought processes imo. And that is my prescriptivist rant for the day.

[Morning Glory]

I’m tired of people using the word “less” when they need to use “fewer.” I can’t cite the grammatical reason why this is the correct thing, I just know that it sounds wrong to my ear.

“I have less anxiety than I had at one time.”  Correct

“I have less apples in the refrigerator than I need for the week. “.  Incorrect

It's cuz if it's countable you use fewer. You can count the number of apples, but not the number of anxiety.

Ugh this was wrong on my kid's math worksheet. I crossed out "less" and put "fewer".

[merula]

Likewise the use of singular 'they' in place of 'his or her' or 'his' or 'her'

Singular they goes back to Shakespeare and before, and has a different meaning than "he or her", in that it's emphasizing that it's not speaking about a specific person.

‘Tis meet that some more audience than a mother, Since nature makes them partial, should o’erhear the speech. (Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 3, spoken by Polonius)

In this case "them" is referring to "a mother", but it's used instead of "her" to mean that Polonius is talking about a generic mother rather than Queen Gertrude specifically.

Sometimes "he or her" can be used in place of a singular "they", but they're not directly equivalent.

[nereo]

Likewise the use of singular 'they' in place of 'his or her' or 'his' or 'her'

What would you use when speaking about someone who's gender is either unknown or non-binary? 
'They' is the only thing I can think of...

[Metalcat]

Likewise the use of singular 'they' in place of 'his or her' or 'his' or 'her'

What would you use when speaking about someone who's gender is either unknown or non-binary? 
'They' is the only thing I can think of...

I go out of my way to use gender neutral they/them/their for this very reason.

I made the mistake *once* of using gendered language with a very, very important client assuming her spouse was male. So in professional contexts I now use as little gendering as possible. This also makes it super easy for me when talking to or about non-binary folks, where my colleagues tend to trip over their pronouns.

[nereo]

Likewise the use of singular 'they' in place of 'his or her' or 'his' or 'her'

What would you use when speaking about someone who's gender is either unknown or non-binary? 
'They' is the only thing I can think of...

I go out of my way to use gender neutral they/them/their for this very reason.

I made the mistake *once* of using gendered language with a very, very important client assuming her spouse was male. So in professional contexts I now use as little gendering as possible. This also makes it super easy for me when talking to or about non-binary folks, where my colleagues tend to trip over their pronouns.

Oof - I did something similar when preparing to interview a potential student. I had an applicant named "Jessie" who was married with a husband.  I stupidly used female pronouns until the head of the department cut me off mid-sentence to say: "Please realize Jessie is MALE".  Clearly, I did not do my due diligence.

[Metalcat]

Likewise the use of singular 'they' in place of 'his or her' or 'his' or 'her'

What would you use when speaking about someone who's gender is either unknown or non-binary? 
'They' is the only thing I can think of...

I go out of my way to use gender neutral they/them/their for this very reason.

I made the mistake *once* of using gendered language with a very, very important client assuming her spouse was male. So in professional contexts I now use as little gendering as possible. This also makes it super easy for me when talking to or about non-binary folks, where my colleagues tend to trip over their pronouns.

Oof - I did something similar when preparing to interview a potential student. I had an applicant named "Jessie" who was married with a husband.  I stupidly used female pronouns until the head of the department cut me off mid-sentence to say: "Please realize Jessie is MALE".  Clearly, I did not do my due diligence.

It's such an easy mistake to make, but can be quite a nasty one in certain situations.

[Dicey]

I’m tired of people using the word “less” when they need to use “fewer.” I can’t cite the grammatical reason why this is the correct thing, I just know that it sounds wrong to my ear.

“I have less anxiety than I had at one time.”  Correct

“I have less apples in the refrigerator than I need for the week. “.  Incorrect

I hope you got an "A".
It's cuz if it's countable you use fewer. You can count the number of apples, but not the number of anxiety.

Ugh this was wrong on my kid's math worksheet. I crossed out "less" and put "fewer".

[iris lily]

I’m tired of people using the word “less” when they need to use “fewer.” I can’t cite the grammatical reason why this is the correct thing, I just know that it sounds wrong to my ear.

“I have less anxiety than I had at one time.”  Correct

“I have less apples in the refrigerator than I need for the week. “.  Incorrect

This bothers me too.

Likewise the erosion of the distinction between disinterested / uninterested

Likewise the use of singular 'they' in place of 'his or her' or 'his' or 'her'

I can understand the descriptivist approach to all of the above blah blah blah blah

It bothers me when we lose meaningful distinctions via the elision of separate concepts into one junky concept. When 'less' and 'fewer' mean the same thing, why have both words at all? And if we have both words being commonly used, why not try to observe the distinction?

It's just an endorsement of lazy thought processes imo. And that is my prescriptivist rant for the day.

“Likewise the singular use of they...”

Oh buddy, I knew you were in trouble when I read this You’re not gonna win this one. Use of “they/them” is changing. Like it or not, it’s changing. Unclear or not, it’s changing. Strident voices will correct you. Just get used to it.

[SunnyDays]

I’m tired of people using the word “less” when they need to use “fewer.” I can’t cite the grammatical reason why this is the correct thing, I just know that it sounds wrong to my ear.

“I have less anxiety than I had at one time.”  Correct

“I have less apples in the refrigerator than I need for the week. “.  Incorrect

This bothers me too.

Likewise the erosion of the distinction between disinterested / uninterested

Likewise the use of singular 'they' in place of 'his or her' or 'his' or 'her'

I can understand the descriptivist approach to all of the above blah blah blah blah

It bothers me when we lose meaningful distinctions via the elision of separate concepts into one junky concept. When 'less' and 'fewer' mean the same thing, why have both words at all? And if we have both words being commonly used, why not try to observe the distinction?

It's just an endorsement of lazy thought processes imo. And that is my prescriptivist rant for the day.

“Likewise the singular use of they...”

Oh buddy, I knew you were in trouble when I read this You’re not gonna win this one. Use of “they/them” is changing. Like it or not, it’s changing. Unclear or not, it’s changing. Strident voices will correct you. Just get used to it.

It only changes if people go along with it.  I’ve not yet been presented with this issue personally, but if/when I am, I will simply avoid using a pronoun in favour of the appropriate noun ( person’s name or the person’s relationship to whomever is speaking, as in “Anne” or “your wife/husband”.)  Both because it’s not grammatical and I refuse to be bullied.

[sui generis]

I’m tired of people using the word “less” when they need to use “fewer.” I can’t cite the grammatical reason why this is the correct thing, I just know that it sounds wrong to my ear.

“I have less anxiety than I had at one time.”  Correct

“I have less apples in the refrigerator than I need for the week. “.  Incorrect

This bothers me too.

Likewise the erosion of the distinction between disinterested / uninterested

Likewise the use of singular 'they' in place of 'his or her' or 'his' or 'her'

I can understand the descriptivist approach to all of the above blah blah blah blah

It bothers me when we lose meaningful distinctions via the elision of separate concepts into one junky concept. When 'less' and 'fewer' mean the same thing, why have both words at all? And if we have both words being commonly used, why not try to observe the distinction?

It's just an endorsement of lazy thought processes imo. And that is my prescriptivist rant for the day.

“Likewise the singular use of they...”

Oh buddy, I knew you were in trouble when I read this You’re not gonna win this one. Use of “they/them” is changing. Like it or not, it’s changing. Unclear or not, it’s changing. Strident voices will correct you. Just get used to it.

It only changes if people go along with it.  I’ve not yet been presented with this issue personally, but if/when I am, I will simply avoid using a pronoun in favour of the appropriate noun ( person’s name or the person’s relationship to whomever is speaking, as in “Anne” or “your wife/husband”.)  Both because it’s not grammatical and I refuse to be bullied.

Regarding the modern use of pronouns, refusing any pronoun and using someone's proper name is another option that is out there to avoid misgendering someone or making assumptions. I'm not sure it will be preferable for someone like you that "refuses to be bullied." A client at one of my volunteer orgs expressed their preference for this recently, and I thought was much more awkward than just using "they" all the time.  Example:  Jane thought Jane would be comfortable driving that distance but that Jane's car was not in the best condition so Jane was unsure Jane could drive Jane's car to the destination and might need to borrow someone else's car. Jane appreciated our help with this and expressed Jane's thanks and asked us to share Jane's thanks with the rest of the team.

[SunnyDays]

Maybe bullied is too strong a word.  Let’s say pressured?  Expected? 

I have no issue with using something entirely different.  I rather liked “zee.”  Then one could also use “zey” and “zem.”  ( Except auto correct won’t accept those words, so that could be a pain!)

[BlueHouse]

Maybe bullied is too strong a word.  Let’s say pressured?  Expected? 

I have no issue with using something entirely different.  I rather liked “zee.”  Then one could also use “zey” and “zem.”  ( Except auto correct won’t accept those words, so that could be a pain!)

I hope you would feel differently if people tell you exactly how they wish to be addressed.  Were you bullied into using African-American? or do you still use "colored"? 

[SunnyDays]

Maybe bullied is too strong a word.  Let’s say pressured?  Expected? 

I have no issue with using something entirely different.  I rather liked “zee.”  Then one could also use “zey” and “zem.”  ( Except auto correct won’t accept those words, so that could be a pain!)

I hope you would feel differently if people tell you exactly how they wish to be addressed.  Were you bullied into using African-American? or do you still use "colored"? 

If I’m addressing a person directly, I would use “you,” of course.

And no, I don’t use “coloured.”  But then again, I don’t use “African American “ either, because I really don’t refer to people based on their race.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

Likewise the use of singular 'they' in place of 'his or her' or 'his' or 'her'

What would you use when speaking about someone who's gender is either unknown or non-binary? 
'They' is the only thing I can think of...

I use "his or her"

I don't know what the singular non-binary pronoun is but we should settle on one and then I can use "his, her or X"

They sounds jarring to me. I know there are plenty of precedents in literature etc

There are also places where singular 'they' makes sense, e.g. - "everybody has their own opinion" sounds more fluent than "everybody has his or her own opinion"

but mostly singular they jars

"Each person chooses for themselves"
(ugh) - or worse, "each person chooses for themself"

also i get annoyed by gender neutral pronouns when there is no need for gender neutrality

eg discussing members of a women's soccer team "The player will need to get their socks" no it's "her" it's an all female team

[Kris]

Likewise the use of singular 'they' in place of 'his or her' or 'his' or 'her'

What would you use when speaking about someone who's gender is either unknown or non-binary? 
'They' is the only thing I can think of...

I use "his or her"

I don't know what the singular non-binary pronoun is but we should settle on one and then I can use "his, her or X"

They sounds jarring to me. I know there are plenty of precedents in literature etc

There are also places where singular 'they' makes sense, e.g. - "everybody has their own opinion" sounds more fluent than "everybody has his or her own opinion"

but mostly singular they jars

"Each person chooses for themselves"
(ugh) - or worse, "each person chooses for themself"

also i get annoyed by gender neutral pronouns when there is no need for gender neutrality

eg discussing members of a women's soccer team "The player will need to get their socks" no it's "her" it's an all female team

What about for a person who is not either who specifically asks you to use “them” as their pronouns?

[nereo]

My take on this is that it’s simply a matter of respect to address or refer to someone with the pronoun they prefer.  It doesn’t cost me anything, and using he preferred pronoun shows I care enough about the person to be cognizant of their wishes.

As an analogy, imagine you were introduced to a new colleague, who’s official name is Dr. RObert Smith.  He might say “Call me Bob” or “Call me Robert” or even “I prefer to keep my business professional, so please refer to me as Dr. Smith”.  In every case I would call them by the name they prefer.  Likewise, I use a derivation of my birth name, and get annoyed when people repeatedly use my full name when I feel they should know better.

  If RObert/Bob/Dr. Smith instead told me “I prefer ‘they/them” — why should that be any than calling them Bob/Robert/Dr. Smith?

[iris lily]

Maybe bullied is too strong a word.  Let’s say pressured?  Expected? 

I have no issue with using something entirely different.  I rather liked “zee.”  Then one could also use “zey” and “zem.”  ( Except auto correct won’t accept those words, so that could be a pain!)

I like the new words too. Wish they had caught on.

Cant we make them catch on?

[iris lily]

My take on this is that it’s simply a matter of respect to address or refer to someone with the pronoun they prefer.  It doesn’t cost me anything, and using he preferred pronoun shows I care enough about the person to be cognizant of their wishes.

As an analogy, imagine you were introduced to a new colleague, who’s official name is Dr. RObert Smith.  He might say “Call me Bob” or “Call me Robert” or even “I prefer to keep my business professional, so please refer to me as Dr. Smith”.  In every case I would call them by the name they prefer.  Likewise, I use a derivation of my birth name, and get annoyed when people repeatedly use my full name when I feel they should know better.

  If RObert/Bob/Dr. Smith instead told me “I prefer ‘they/them” — why should that be any than calling them Bob/Robert/Dr. Smith?

Because when you have a whole row of Dr. Whomever standing there, and  3 wish to be called them/they and one of them is “he” and the rest say they dont care...

Yeah you expect me to remember this shit?

I feel so sorry for college professors. Can I they use surnames?  Do they need TA’s to help them keep track of the pronouns now?