Woman An Authority On What Shouldn't Be In Poor People’s Grocery Carts-The Onion

[Bank]

I logged on to post this exact link.  I echo Arebelspy's comments.  Don't be this person.

[hybrid]

....and it's definitely a flaw I'm not immune to.

+1  I loved this satire. I hated this satire.

[bikebum]

I am so lazy when it comes to food prep. I usually just toss a bunch of chopped veggies, rice, maybe some beans, eggs, maybe some meat, in a wok and cook it up. Add some hot sauce or spices for flavor. It's not delicious, but it's pretty damn good and satiating. To me, it's not any harder than opening up some frozen pseudo-food and microwaving it, and it's definitely easier and more convenient than going to a drive-through.

lol!  That sounds like a lot of work to me! For me, if a meal isn't a frozen Amy's Kitchen microwave meal, its something like egg, canned corn, salsa (that came with burrito from burrito truck), microwave, eat.  Or blueberries, raspberries, canned oranges, and yogurt.  Or a sandwich.
If it takes longer to prepare the meal than to eat it (chopping veggies! WAY to much work!!) I'd sooner go hungry.

That all sounds healthy, cheap, and quick. I used to think chopping veggies took a while, but then I tried it and it takes me probably less than 2 minutes from the fridge to the stove. I don't dice 'em or anything like that, just big bite sizes. I guess it's just part of life for me, like brushing my teeth.

[bikebum]

Found some interesting links on the cost of healthy food compared to crappy food:

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/about/visiting/events/pastmtg/assets/docs_n_z/supplementary_informationdrewnowski2.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/health/nutrition/04well.html?_r=0

I was probably wrong; punch me in the face. :)

[Elaine]

Found some interesting links on the cost of healthy food compared to crappy food:

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/about/visiting/events/pastmtg/assets/docs_n_z/supplementary_informationdrewnowski2.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/health/nutrition/04well.html?_r=0

I was probably wrong; punch me in the face. :)

Hehe, well it's a complicated issue! I'm a food writer so I have researched this stuff quite a bit. Part of the issue is that in low-income urban areas you get something called "food deserts". Drive to a depressed urban area and go to the grocery store, you're hard pressed to find fresh produce, but poptarts are 2 for $1 and McDonald's is on the corner.

I lived in rough urban areas for years, and I would take the train 30 minutes just to grocery shop, because you literally couldn't find an apple. When produce was available, it was more expensive in the poor area than if I went to a wealthier neighborhood. So spinach in the poor area would be $5, and in the wealthy area it would be $2.50. This is an especially big problem in cities where most people rely on public transportation, you are more confined to grocery shopping in your own area. There are so many factors at play, but the more you delve into it, the more you can see how it becomes easier for low income people (especially working single parents) to just grab a pizza or burgers, rather than haul a cart on the subway, take the train an hour round trip, make a weekly meal plan, etc.

[Jamesqf]

Part of the issue is that in low-income urban areas you get something called "food deserts". Drive to a depressed urban area and go to the grocery store, you're hard pressed to find fresh produce, but poptarts are 2 for $1 and McDonald's is on the corner.

So it seems that the problem isn't what "the poor" put in their grocery carts, as it is what urbanites put in their grocery carts.

[EMP]

I usually just toss a bunch of chopped veggies, rice, maybe some beans, eggs, maybe some meat, in a wok and cook it up. Add some hot sauce or spices for flavor. It's not delicious, but it's .... satiating.

Umm...weren't you asking earlier if junk food tasted good to people?  My cooking skills have increased so that I can do what you're describing here and it tastes decent about 95% of the time.  That other 5% when I misjudge the texture or some spice combination?  No bueno. 

[rocksinmyhead]

I think it's interesting that a lot of people think this low quality food tastes good. I think it's nasty and it makes me feel crappy. I'm not bringing this up to criticize anyone; it's just interesting. Maybe the knowledge that it is not healthy makes me unable to enjoy it, or maybe I'm just lucky that I find healthy stuff tastes better. Sure, I'll have some fried food occasionally, but I can't do it very often without feeling not so good.

What do you guys think, does low quality food taste good?

I think another factor here is whether you grew up eating this food.  Personally, I do think that certain types of fast foods taste good, and I often crave them.  Growing up, my mom cooked occasionally, but I remember many a meal coming from the fast food place or restaurant, especially McDonald's. We also had tons of soda in the house, and I grew up drinking that.  Then, when i went to college, I basically ate the same type of foods.  I try to avoid it all now, and I rarely if ever let my kids touch the stuff, but for me it can be a struggle. Eating it makes me feel happy.  I can't really describe it any other way.  I don't even know if taste really comes into it. Along that vein, research is coming out that indicates that fast food and other junk foods can be more addictive than drugs, and based on my experience, and my own challenges to kick the habit, so to speak, I kind of believe it.   

yup. I was going to say, some people might literally not know what good food tastes like because no one around them cooks it or eats it and they never had it growing up. yeah, yeah, I know, you probably didn't either but you're a genius and figured it out yourself. not everyone does! I didn't grow up poor, and I don't mean to imply that my parents are terrible cooks (and lately they're really expanding their cooking horizons together, they keep texting me pictures of their meals, it's hilarious :)) but I grew up on pretty typical midwestern middle class fare... Hamburger Helper, canned green beans, etc. shit, my dad and I even ate Spam sandwiches together. or bologna and ketchup... another favorite childhood sandwich. I don't think I tasted fresh green beans until I was at least 20, unless it was at a restaurant or something. I had a conversation with two friends about this once, and it was so interesting. one friend had a pretty similar childhood to mine; the other had more well to do (and educated) parents, one of whom came from a VERY well to do family, and both her parents' families had cooks when they were growing up who actually showed the kids how to cook, too (which I thought was pretty cool). she had never had CANNED green beans.

for another related anecdote, my first year of grad school I sort of had a "date" with this guy where we cooked dinner at my house. while we were at the grocery store he asked if I had garlic at home or if we needed to buy it. he was pretty surprised when we got back and he found out that by "I have garlic" I meant "I have garlic powder"... it had literally never occurred to me to buy and use fresh garlic. thankfully my much more worldly roommate had a garlic press and got me hooked :) today I'm actually a pretty awesome cook... but I had a lot of world-expanding experiences (college, grad school, roommates) that many people who grew up in worse circumstances never get to have.

I lived in rough urban areas for years, and I would take the train 30 minutes just to grocery shop, because you literally couldn't find an apple. When produce was available, it was more expensive in the poor area than if I went to a wealthier neighborhood. So spinach in the poor area would be $5, and in the wealthy area it would be $2.50. This is an especially big problem in cities where most people rely on public transportation, you are more confined to grocery shopping in your own area. There are so many factors at play, but the more you delve into it, the more you can see how it becomes easier for low income people (especially working single parents) to just grab a pizza or burgers, rather than haul a cart on the subway, take the train an hour round trip, make a weekly meal plan, etc.

this is a HUGE problem in north Tulsa. plus our transit system blows, so I'm sure that's extra helpful to poor people :(

[Eric]

Part of the issue is that in low-income urban areas you get something called "food deserts". Drive to a depressed urban area and go to the grocery store, you're hard pressed to find fresh produce, but poptarts are 2 for $1 and McDonald's is on the corner.

So it seems that the problem isn't what "the poor" put in their grocery carts, as it is what urbanites put in their grocery carts.

Because all urbanites are poor?  Or all urbanites live in a food desert?  Or why exactly?  Obviously there are also poor people who live in the boonies.  That doesn't really change the fact that food deserts are a real problem.

You don't view this article as satire, do you?

[thepokercab]

yup. I was going to say, some people might literally not know what good food tastes like because no one around them cooks it or eats it and they never had it growing up. yeah, yeah, I know, you probably didn't either but you're a genius and figured it out yourself. not everyone does!

I honestly didn't figure it out until I started living with my wife.  Until she came along, I figured most things came out of a box and that it would be super complicated to do it any other way. I remember one morning distinctly when we started living together, and she told me she was going to bake blueberry muffins, and I told her that we couldn't because we didn't have any boxed mix.  She responded "nah, i'll just make them from scratch- won't take that long".  I was kind of blown away.     

[bearkat]

For better or worse, I think a lot of the  judge-y "you're on food stamps buying junk" attitude comes from taxpayers feeling like the poor are personally wasting their money. But in reality once you give someone a gift, you don't get to control how they spend it. We pay taxes to the government (we lose control of $$). Government pays out benefits (govt loses control of $$ too). Seems like the only way to improve is to root out the cause of poverty / wastefulness rather than worry about a poor guy buying a hungry man over a lean cuisine.

By the way not sure which came first but this onion article sounds a lot like a bit on from the daily show a month back where Jon Stewart ridiculed people (aka FOX news) for judging poor people who bought crab with EBT.

[Eric]

By the way not sure which came first but this onion article sounds a lot like a bit on from the daily show a month back where Jon Stewart ridiculed people (aka FOX news) for judging poor people who bought crab with EBT.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/elvsf4/what-not-to-buy

[bikebum]

I usually just toss a bunch of chopped veggies, rice, maybe some beans, eggs, maybe some meat, in a wok and cook it up. Add some hot sauce or spices for flavor. It's not delicious, but it's .... satiating.

Umm...weren't you asking earlier if junk food tasted good to people?  My cooking skills have increased so that I can do what you're describing here and it tastes decent about 95% of the time.  That other 5% when I misjudge the texture or some spice combination?  No bueno.

The original quote was:

It's not delicious, buts it's pretty damn good and satiating.

It has a much different meaning the way you cut it up. Definitely better than junk food to me.

[Paul der Krake]

By the way not sure which came first but this onion article sounds a lot like a bit on from the daily show a month back where Jon Stewart ridiculed people (aka FOX news) for judging poor people who bought crab with EBT.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/elvsf4/what-not-to-buy

WOW this was great. In a sad, what-in-the-world-is-wrong-with-these-people kind of way, but still great. You can buy iPads!

[EMP]

I usually just toss a bunch of chopped veggies, rice, maybe some beans, eggs, maybe some meat, in a wok and cook it up. Add some hot sauce or spices for flavor. It's not delicious, but it's .... satiating.

Umm...weren't you asking earlier if junk food tasted good to people?  My cooking skills have increased so that I can do what you're describing here and it tastes decent about 95% of the time.  That other 5% when I misjudge the texture or some spice combination?  No bueno.

The original quote was:

It's not delicious, buts it's pretty damn good and satiating.

It has a much different meaning the way you cut it up. Definitely better than junk food to me.

The reason I cut it up was because that's what jumped out at me when I first read it, but you're right.  My apologies.

But yes, junk food tastes awesome.  That's why they sell so much of it.  I can feel the hormones flooding my brain when I think about a hamburger or ice cream or chips...etc. 

I cook the majoritity of my meals, and don't miss junk food.  However, if I'm tired or stressed or already hungry and have to do any sort of prep work on top of that, junk food is a very attractive option. 

One question, is some of the pleasure you derive from your wok creations embedded in the fact that you know (or feel) the meal is nutritionally sound? 

[Jamesqf]

Part of the issue is that in low-income urban areas you get something called "food deserts". Drive to a depressed urban area and go to the grocery store, you're hard pressed to find fresh produce, but poptarts are 2 for $1 and McDonald's is on the corner.

So it seems that the problem isn't what "the poor" put in their grocery carts, as it is what urbanites put in their grocery carts.

Because all urbanites are poor?  Or all urbanites live in a food desert?  Or why exactly?  Obviously there are also poor people who live in the boonies.  That doesn't really change the fact that food deserts are a real problem.

Because it would seem that since such food deserts are largely an artifact of urbanization,  a good many non-poor urbanites must also live in or be affected them to some degree.  If you are rural poor, you almost certainly know how to get a significant share of your food from your garden, or the woods & fields.

Even now, I'm getting fresh asparagus and garlic chives from my garden, enjoying the crabapple, plum, grape, and quince jam I made last fall, have dried fruit leather to take on hikes, pine nuts for snacks (ever priced those in a store?), some good venison jerky and a couple of trout in the freezer (courtesy of neighbors).  I could get much more if I was really poor, and got into foraging in a big way.  Dandilions, for instance, grow almost everywhere

You don't view this article as satire, do you?

Obviously, the people who wrote it intended it to be satire (since it was in The Onion).  The irony & unintentional humor is that their startting point of view is warped so far to the left that their 'satire' comes pretty close to common sense.

[bikebum]

One question, is some of the pleasure you derive from your wok creations embedded in the fact that you know (or feel) the meal is nutritionally sound?

Probably yes. I think it works the other way too; one reason I don't like junk food is probably because I think it is unhealthy. Most of it has a certain "phony" taste to me. Although, I think homemade baked goods taste good even though they are probably not much better health-wise.

Sometimes I don't check a food label close enough, notice an "off" taste, re-check the label, and notice there are weird ingredients. It's like I can detect a "junk" flavor, and I don't like it.

[Russ]

urbanites

I was wondering when this would come up. Yes, let's discuss this again because it's gone so well every other time.

[iris lily]

For better or worse, I think a lot of the  judge-y "you're on food stamps buying junk" attitude comes from taxpayers feeling like the poor are personally wasting their money. But in reality once you give someone a gift, you don't get to control how they spend it...

Oh for heaven's sake it's not a "gift." It's confiscated from me. It's supposed to go to support the necessities of life for indigent people. I can get as judgey as I like about where my money goes and I can express that on forums, the ballot box, and over a cup of coffee with my friends.

And as a major donor to some charitable organizations, a gift giver, you can bet that I make my thoughts known about how they are spending money if I see them going down the wrong path.

[iris lily]

...Obviously, the people who wrote it intended it to be satire (since it was in The Onion).  The irony & unintentional humor is that their startting point of view is warped so far to the left that their 'satire' comes pretty close to common sense.

I thought that same thing. When I read Onion articles they are usually funny because they are using sarcasm. For this one I looked deep into the sarcasm bucket and found only bits across the bottom.

[arebelspy]

...Obviously, the people who wrote it intended it to be satire (since it was in The Onion).  The irony & unintentional humor is that their startting point of view is warped so far to the left that their 'satire' comes pretty close to common sense.

I thought that same thing. When I read Onion articles they are usually funny because they are using sarcasm. For this one I looked deep into the sarcasm bucket and found only bits across the bottom.

Maybe you should reflect a bit on the fact that perhaps they aren't different this time, but you are.

[iris lily]

sually funny because they are using sarcasm. For this one I looked deep into the sarcasm bucket and found only bits across the bottom.

Maybe you should reflect a bit on the fact that perhaps they aren't different this time, but you are.
[/quote]

I did find the title funny, I have to admit.

[Norrie]

this is a HUGE problem in north Tulsa. plus our transit system blows, so I'm sure that's extra helpful to poor people :(

*high five for Tulsa*
I actually worked on research regarding food deserts in Tulsa. Hugely eye-opening. Our transit system plus food deserts make getting healthy food incredibly difficult. Folks are actually opening basically food trucks in different housing projects in North Tulsa that offer fruits, veggies, dairy, and other healthy foods that are otherwise mostly unavailable in the area. I am drawing a massive blank right now as to who is running them.

[Norrie]

Ah, here's the article:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/tulsa-grocery-store-takes-healthy-food-on-the-road/article_74adce1b-c86f-5d30-966a-cae0f1b0e23c.html

[Jamesqf]

I thought that same thing. When I read Onion articles they are usually funny because they are using sarcasm. For this one I looked deep into the sarcasm bucket and found only bits across the bottom.

I've honestly never found the Onion to be all that funny, in general.  Most of their articles I've read seem to suffer from a milder form of this one's problem.  That is, their sarcasm (or attempted sarcasm) only seems humorous if you happen to see the world from their particular socio-political viewpoint. 

[arebelspy]

I thought that same thing. When I read Onion articles they are usually funny because they are using sarcasm. For this one I looked deep into the sarcasm bucket and found only bits across the bottom.

I've honestly never found the Onion to be all that funny, in general.  Most of their articles I've read seem to suffer from a milder form of this one's problem.  That is, their sarcasm (or attempted sarcasm) only seems humorous if you happen to see the world from their particular socio-political viewpoint.

Not necessarily.

It does help if you are open to being wrong.

[rocksinmyhead]

Ah, here's the article:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/tulsa-grocery-store-takes-healthy-food-on-the-road/article_74adce1b-c86f-5d30-966a-cae0f1b0e23c.html

yes I saw this one!!! SO cool. :)

[iris lily]

Ah, here's the article:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/tulsa-grocery-store-takes-healthy-food-on-the-road/article_74adce1b-c86f-5d30-966a-cae0f1b0e23c.html

yes I saw this one!!! SO cool. :)

Let's see: heavily other-financed food distribution program runs for, what--4 months and is declared a wonderful success by journalistic investigators?

Being more skeptical, I'd like to see accurately reported outcomes of this program that  measure the program inputs against outputs and over several years with reportage happening at the one, two, and three year mark. Depending on the outcome then I might say "yay! SO Cool!" Right now it's just another social experiment. But at least there is no government money going into it. I hope.

[rocksinmyhead]

Ah, here's the article:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/tulsa-grocery-store-takes-healthy-food-on-the-road/article_74adce1b-c86f-5d30-966a-cae0f1b0e23c.html

yes I saw this one!!! SO cool. :)

Let's see: heavily other-financed food distribution program runs for, what--4 months and is declared a wonderful success by journalistic investigators?

Being more skeptical, I'd like to see accurately reported outcomes of this program that  measure the program inputs against outputs and over several years with reportage happening at the one, two, and three year mark. Depending on the outcome then I might say "yay! SO Cool!" Right now it's just another social experiment. But at least there is no government money going into it. I hope.

sorry, I didn't mean "yay, so cool, all the problems are fixed!!!!111" I'm not an idiot. but it's a great idea and at least someone's fucking trying something. I don't know that the article necessarily said "it's a wonderful success!!!" either. I read it more as "here's something new in the community."

[Jamesqf]

It does help if you are open to being wrong.

"Grimy Arse", cried the kettle to the pot :-)

[dragoncar]

I thought that same thing. When I read Onion articles they are usually funny because they are using sarcasm. For this one I looked deep into the sarcasm bucket and found only bits across the bottom.

I've honestly never found the Onion to be all that funny, in general.  Most of their articles I've read seem to suffer from a milder form of this one's problem.  That is, their sarcasm (or attempted sarcasm) only seems humorous if you happen to see the world from their particular socio-political viewpoint.

I've always found the onion to be hit or miss, probably because they have to turn out a never ending flow of satire and run out of topics but still have deadlines.  This one was a stretch and boiled down mostly to "woman judges other people, but ironically should be judged as well, by m night shaymalan"

[arebelspy]

It does help if you are open to being wrong.

"Grimy Arse", cried the kettle to the pot :-)

I meant that genuinely.  I find satire both funny and uncomfortable.  It often makes me question what I believe, rather than dismissing the satire as "unfunny."

See: Paul's response.

[Jamesqf]

I meant that genuinely.  I find satire both funny and uncomfortable.  It often makes me question what I believe, rather than dismissing the satire as "unfunny."

Perhaps when it's done well, but it so seldom is - or perhaps I've somehow managed to miss much of the well done stuff.  If you want to convince me that I'm actually wrong about something, facts (preferrably supported by a consistent theory) tend to work pretty well.

I think to do satire well, the satirist needs to be open to the possibility that he himself is in the wrong.  Satirists of the Onion sort seem (in my admittedly limited experience) to be almost arrogant in assuming their own correctness.

I much prefer the Terry Pratchett style, in which one questions basic asumptions and looks at the logical consequences.  It presents things not so much as right vs wrong, as it expands possibilities.

[frugalnacho]

I know it's satire, but for someone that used to work in a grocery store it's all too real.  I didn't have food stamps.  I had to work to pay for my education, and to pay for my food and other expenses, and I had to adjust what I bought to be in line with my income.   Then I see some asshole load their sushi, prepared deli sandwiches and sides, and high quality steaks onto the counter and pay with food stamps. 

I'm going to school 16 hours a week, doing 20+ hours of homework, and supporting myself by working in a grocery store 30+ hours a week and eating food that fits in my budget while some asshole is eating steaks and sushi bought with food stamps.   Always infuriated me.  Still does.

[sol]

Always infuriated me.  Still does.

This is a problem with you, not them.

Are you furious when you see a dude driving around in leased Mercedes SUV and living in a McMansion that costs 12 times his annual income?  Why is your response anger and not pity?

Some people will always make poor financial decisions, perpetuating their own relative poverty by their own inability to save money and build wealth.  This is not a reason to be angry at them.

Where their meager incomes come from should be irrelevant.  Food stamps are exactly equivalent, in economic terms, to the mortgage interest deduction or the 0% long term capital gains rate, both of which are only available to people below a certain level of income.  It's just government dollars being spent to favor a particular interest group.  It's not "your" money they're spending any more than a rebate for buying energy efficient appliances is "your" money being spent by your eco-conscious neighbor.  Dollars are fungible.

If you envy their meal choices, then feel free to also go into debt to buy sushi and steaks and be just like them.  A better option, though, is to recognize your own superior impulse control and long term planning skills, be satisfied that you are making the right choices for you, and feel sorry for the poor fools wasting their income on foods they can't afford.

Otherwise this is just the classic dog-whistle race-baiting that Ronald Reagan used so effectively when he tried to sympathize with the frustration you (the supposedly white listener) feel when waiting in line to buy hamburger when some "strapping young buck" (code word for young black man) is in front of you buying T-bones with his welfare check.  Reagan knew how to mobilize his voter base by appealing to issues of class and race in a way that wouldn't be called out for being explicitly classist or racist, and you're just regurgitating his 30 year old bigoted talking points.  Aren't we past this yet?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Strapping%20Young%20Buck

[frugalnacho]

Always infuriated me.  Still does.

This is a problem with you, not them.

Are you furious when you see a dude driving around in leased Mercedes SUV and living in a McMansion that costs 12 times his annual income?  Why is your response anger and not pity?

Some people will always make poor financial decisions, perpetuating their own relative poverty by their own inability to save money and build wealth.  This is not a reason to be angry at them.

Where their meager incomes come from should be irrelevant.  Food stamps are exactly equivalent, in economic terms, to the mortgage interest deduction or the 0% long term capital gains rate, both of which are only available to people below a certain level of income.  It's just government dollars being spent to favor a particular interest group.  It's not "your" money they're spending any more than a rebate for buying energy efficient appliances is "your" money being spent by your eco-conscious neighbor.  Dollars are fungible.

If you envy their meal choices, then feel free to also go into debt to buy sushi and steaks and be just like them.  A better option, though, is to recognize your own superior impulse control and long term planning skills, be satisfied that you are making the right choices for you, and feel sorry for the poor fools wasting their income on foods they can't afford.

Otherwise this is just the classic dog-whistle race-baiting that Ronald Reagan used so effectively when he tried to sympathize with the frustration you (the supposedly white listener) feel when waiting in line to buy hamburger when some "strapping young buck" (code word for young black man) is in front of you buying T-bones with his welfare check.  Reagan knew how to mobilize his voter base by appealing to issues of class and race in a way that wouldn't be called out for being explicitly classist or racist, and you're just regurgitating his 30 year old bigoted talking points.  Aren't we past this yet?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Strapping%20Young%20Buck

It's not that they are buying food I can't afford, it's that I am footing the bill for them to buy food neither of us can afford.

I don't get angry when I see someone driving a leased SUV and living in a mcmasion.  However when the housing market crashed and the banks gave mortgage forgiveness to that guy, yes it absolutely infuriated me.   I lived within my means, drove a car I could afford and lived in a house I could afford and stayed up to date on all my bills, and he got a free ride at my expense.

[rocksinmyhead]

Always infuriated me.  Still does.

This is a problem with you, not them.

Are you furious when you see a dude driving around in leased Mercedes SUV and living in a McMansion that costs 12 times his annual income?  Why is your response anger and not pity?

Some people will always make poor financial decisions, perpetuating their own relative poverty by their own inability to save money and build wealth.  This is not a reason to be angry at them.

Where their meager incomes come from should be irrelevant.  Food stamps are exactly equivalent, in economic terms, to the mortgage interest deduction or the 0% long term capital gains rate, both of which are only available to people below a certain level of income.  It's just government dollars being spent to favor a particular interest group.  It's not "your" money they're spending any more than a rebate for buying energy efficient appliances is "your" money being spent by your eco-conscious neighbor.  Dollars are fungible.

If you envy their meal choices, then feel free to also go into debt to buy sushi and steaks and be just like them.  A better option, though, is to recognize your own superior impulse control and long term planning skills, be satisfied that you are making the right choices for you, and feel sorry for the poor fools wasting their income on foods they can't afford.

Otherwise this is just the classic dog-whistle race-baiting that Ronald Reagan used so effectively when he tried to sympathize with the frustration you (the supposedly white listener) feel when waiting in line to buy hamburger when some "strapping young buck" (code word for young black man) is in front of you buying T-bones with his welfare check.  Reagan knew how to mobilize his voter base by appealing to issues of class and race in a way that wouldn't be called out for being explicitly classist or racist, and you're just regurgitating his 30 year old bigoted talking points.  Aren't we past this yet?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Strapping%20Young%20Buck

It's not that they are buying food I can't afford, it's that I am footing the bill for them to buy food neither of us can afford.

I don't get angry when I see someone driving a leased SUV and living in a mcmasion.  However when the housing market crashed and the banks gave mortgage forgiveness to that guy, yes it absolutely infuriated me.   I lived within my means, drove a car I could afford and lived in a house I could afford and stayed up to date on all my bills, and he got a free ride at my expense.

but the whole time, he was getting a bigger mortgage deduction than you because he bought a McMansion!!! GRRRRR!

[Constance Noring]

It's not that they are buying food I can't afford, it's that I am footing the bill for them to buy food neither of us can afford.

I don't get angry when I see someone driving a leased SUV and living in a mcmasion.  However when the housing market crashed and the banks gave mortgage forgiveness to that guy, yes it absolutely infuriated me.   I lived within my means, drove a car I could afford and lived in a house I could afford and stayed up to date on all my bills, and he got a free ride at my expense.

You are aware that life's not a zero-sum game, right? That just because someone has something that doesn't mean they took it from you?

[Bakari]

It's not that they are buying food I can't afford, it's that I am footing the bill for them to buy food neither of us can afford.

I don't get angry when I see someone driving a leased SUV and living in a mcmasion.  However when the housing market crashed and the banks gave mortgage forgiveness to that guy, yes it absolutely infuriated me.   I lived within my means, drove a car I could afford and lived in a house I could afford and stayed up to date on all my bills, and he got a free ride at my expense.

You seem to have accidentally skipped over this paragraph:

Where their meager incomes come from should be irrelevant.  Food stamps are exactly equivalent, in economic terms, to the mortgage interest deduction or the 0% long term capital gains rate, both of which are only available to people below a certain level of income.  It's just government dollars being spent to favor a particular interest group.  It's not "your" money they're spending any more than a rebate for buying energy efficient appliances is "your" money being spent by your eco-conscious neighbor.  Dollars are fungible.

A lot of free rides are at your expense as a tax payer.
How about the oil company that gets free security from the US military? I work with people who spent time in the sandbox, guarding pipelines.  That was literally the entire mission.  The owner of said pipeline is getting a free ride at your expense.

Does it bother you when someone has so much money in investments that they don't have to work for a living?  They can afford things you can't, and they pay less in taxes, because unearned income is taxed at a lower rate than earned income.

[frugalnacho]

It's not that they are buying food I can't afford, it's that I am footing the bill for them to buy food neither of us can afford.

I don't get angry when I see someone driving a leased SUV and living in a mcmasion.  However when the housing market crashed and the banks gave mortgage forgiveness to that guy, yes it absolutely infuriated me.   I lived within my means, drove a car I could afford and lived in a house I could afford and stayed up to date on all my bills, and he got a free ride at my expense.

You seem to have accidentally skipped over this paragraph:

Where their meager incomes come from should be irrelevant.  Food stamps are exactly equivalent, in economic terms, to the mortgage interest deduction or the 0% long term capital gains rate, both of which are only available to people below a certain level of income.  It's just government dollars being spent to favor a particular interest group.  It's not "your" money they're spending any more than a rebate for buying energy efficient appliances is "your" money being spent by your eco-conscious neighbor.  Dollars are fungible.

A lot of free rides are at your expense as a tax payer.
How about the oil company that gets free security from the US military? I work with people who spent time in the sandbox, guarding pipelines.  That was literally the entire mission.  The owner of said pipeline is getting a free ride at your expense.

Does it bother you when someone has so much money in investments that they don't have to work for a living?  They can afford things you can't, and they pay less in taxes, because unearned income is taxed at a lower rate than earned income.

I didn't skip it and I didn't say anything about other forms of free rides.   Yes that person that unfairly profits at tax payers expenses (including the oil company getting free security on my dime) bothers me. 

No it doesn't bother me when someone has enough money that they don't need to work.  Why would that bother me?  It's not about people affording things I can't.  It's when they can't afford those things yet they get those things anyway via subsidies that makes me angry.   

People buying steaks and sushi don't bother me.  Neither do people that have more money, or more toys, or a bigger house, or better food.  If you can afford those things and you want them (or want to indebt yourself to afford it), more power to you.  I am happy for them.  But it seems a bit unfair to me to use my tax dollars to buy yourself better things than I can afford.

[arebelspy]

Does it bother you when someone has so much money in investments that they don't have to work for a living?  They can afford things you can't, and they pay less in taxes, because unearned income is taxed at a lower rate than earned income.

No it doesn't bother me when someone has enough money that they don't need to work.  Why would that bother me?  It's not about people affording things I can't.  It's when they can't afford those things yet they get those things anyway via subsidies that makes me angry.   

Except that they may not be able to afford those things if they didn't get the capital gains subsidy.  If they paid a higher tax rate, they may not have been able to FIRE yet, or may not be able to spend the way they do.   If unearned income subsidy via capital gains doesn't bother you...

[Russ]

did you know that homeless people with kids get a free Maserati and annual vacations to the southern hemisphere for the winter?

[arebelspy]

did you know that homeless people with kids get a free Maserati and annual vacations to the southern hemisphere for the winter?

I read this somewhere on the Internet.  I'm pretty sure it's true, the source I've seen cited is pretty authoratative.

[sol]

But it seems a bit unfair to me to use my tax dollars to buy yourself better things than I can afford.

I think this sentences confuses very two very different things, and I'd like to clear that up.

1.  When you give money to charity, that is "your" money.  The charity says thank you and you get to feel good about yourself and then judge them if they spend it poorly.

2.  When you pay taxes, you are paying back the government for the services they have provided you.  Those tax dollars are not "yours" because the government has already spent them building you roads and internet connections and B-2 bombers.

Please note the difference.  There is no such thing as "your" tax dollars.  I pay more taxes than you do, but you don't see me complaining about how you're getting a free ride from "my" tax dollars because I recognize that not everyone can afford to pay what I do, and we all lose if somebody doesn't step up to foot the bill, and you can't.  I do not feel exploited.  I am not angry at people who get food stamps or 0% LTCG rates or Roth IRAs or other forms of assistance.  I'd much rather have those poor people staying home each night watching tv and gnawing on that Tbone than out roaming the neighborhood looking for something to loot.

Besides, the amount of money handed out as food stamps is so tiny as to be insignificant in the scheme of government spending.  Maybe complain about a trillion dollar war in Iraq for no apparent purpose before you worry about some dude buying sushi.  Of all the things to lose sleep over, this might not be the worst thing in the world even though it feels that way because it is personal and visceral and immediate.  Keep perspective.

[arebelspy]

words

[frugalnacho]

But it seems a bit unfair to me to use my tax dollars to buy yourself better things than I can afford.

I think this sentences confuses very two very different things, and I'd like to clear that up.

1.  When you give money to charity, that is "your" money.  The charity says thank you and you get to feel good about yourself and then judge them if they spend it poorly.

2.  When you pay taxes, you are paying back the government for the services they have provided you.  Those tax dollars are not "yours" because the government has already spent them building you roads and internet connections and B-2 bombers.

Please note the difference.  There is no such thing as "your" tax dollars.  I pay more taxes than you do, but you don't see me complaining about how you're getting a free ride from "my" tax dollars because I recognize that not everyone can afford to pay what I do, and we all lose if somebody doesn't step up to foot the bill, and you can't.  I do not feel exploited.  I am not angry at people who get food stamps or 0% LTCG rates or Roth IRAs or other forms of assistance.  I'd much rather have those poor people staying home each night watching tv and gnawing on that Tbone than out roaming the neighborhood looking for something to loot.

Besides, the amount of money handed out as food stamps is so tiny as to be insignificant in the scheme of government spending.  Maybe complain about a trillion dollar war in Iraq for no apparent purpose before you worry about some dude buying sushi.  Of all the things to lose sleep over, this might not be the worst thing in the world even though it feels that way because it is personal and visceral and immediate.  Keep perspective.

I'm well aware of how taxes work and that it is no longer directly "my" money.

It's not simply about someone getting a free ride at "my" expense, it's people getting a free better ride than me at my expense.   I don't hate the food stamp program, or people that need assistance, I think it's a good thing.  However I don't think they should be getting better stuff than me. 

I don't understand why the only two options you present are sitting at home watching tv gnawing on a t-bone or looting the streets.  What about sitting at home watching tv and gnawing on a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or hot dogs like I had to do?  Why exactly does that person deserve better quality food than someone who is working and paying taxes and not collecting food stamps?

I do have perspective to the vast amounts of money wasted.  I don't agree with the war, or most of what the government does with my tax dollars, but I don't lose sleep over any of it.  That perspective doesn't change the fairness in this specific situation though.

[EMP]

But it seems a bit unfair to me to use my tax dollars to buy yourself better things than I can afford.

I think this sentences confuses very two very different things, and I'd like to clear that up.

1.  When you give money to charity, that is "your" money.  The charity says thank you and you get to feel good about yourself and then judge them if they spend it poorly.

2.  When you pay taxes, you are paying back the government for the services they have provided you.  Those tax dollars are not "yours" because the government has already spent them building you roads and internet connections and B-2 bombers.

Please note the difference.  There is no such thing as "your" tax dollars.  I pay more taxes than you do, but you don't see me complaining about how you're getting a free ride from "my" tax dollars because I recognize that not everyone can afford to pay what I do, and we all lose if somebody doesn't step up to foot the bill, and you can't.  I do not feel exploited.  I am not angry at people who get food stamps or 0% LTCG rates or Roth IRAs or other forms of assistance.  I'd much rather have those poor people staying home each night watching tv and gnawing on that Tbone than out roaming the neighborhood looking for something to loot.

Besides, the amount of money handed out as food stamps is so tiny as to be insignificant in the scheme of government spending.  Maybe complain about a trillion dollar war in Iraq for no apparent purpose before you worry about some dude buying sushi.  Of all the things to lose sleep over, this might not be the worst thing in the world even though it feels that way because it is personal and visceral and immediate.  Keep perspective.

I'm well aware of how taxes work and that it is no longer directly "my" money.

It's not simply about someone getting a free ride at "my" expense, it's people getting a free better ride than me at my expense.   I don't hate the food stamp program, or people that need assistance, I think it's a good thing.  However I don't think they should be getting better stuff than me. 

I don't understand why the only two options you present are sitting at home watching tv gnawing on a t-bone or looting the streets.  What about sitting at home watching tv and gnawing on a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or hot dogs like I had to do?  Why exactly does that person deserve better quality food than someone who is working and paying taxes and not collecting food stamps?

I do have perspective to the vast amounts of money wasted.  I don't agree with the war, or most of what the government does with my tax dollars, but I don't lose sleep over any of it.  That perspective doesn't change the fairness in this specific situation though.

Soooo...bad decisions are only ok when you make them? 

Just asking because your signature seems to flaunt yours. 

[thepokercab]

It's not simply about someone getting a free ride at "my" expense, it's people getting a free better ride than me at my expense.   I don't hate the food stamp program, or people that need assistance, I think it's a good thing.  However I don't think they should be getting better stuff than me. 

I don't understand why the only two options you present are sitting at home watching tv gnawing on a t-bone or looting the streets.  What about sitting at home watching tv and gnawing on a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or hot dogs like I had to do?  Why exactly does that person deserve better quality food than someone who is working and paying taxes and not collecting food stamps?

I do have perspective to the vast amounts of money wasted.  I don't agree with the war, or most of what the government does with my tax dollars, but I don't lose sleep over any of it.  That perspective doesn't change the fairness in this specific situation though.

I'm having a hard time getting the logic here.  I hear people arguing that people on food stamps shouldn't be allowed to buy junk food, but then I'm now hearing another argument that says they shouldn't be able to buy "better quality food" with food stamps.  So who arbitrates what kind of food you can buy? 

Is your solution really to spend even more money creating more bureaucracy to monitor and track each piece of food someone is purchasing with food stamps? Should there be a "food stamp aisle" at every store in America?  Let's see- they can't buy sodas or junk food.  How about cookies?  Can they buy cookies?  Only certain kinds of cookies?  Can they buy bread?  Is whole wheat bread too fancy?   Apparently T-Bone steak is out, what about a chuck roast?  Should we impose a weight limit?  I assume we're ok with them buying vegetables, but is organic veggies to "high quality"?  Should we make sure they're only buying cheap, seasonal fruits and veggies?     

[Daley]

Soooo...bad decisions are only ok when you make them? 

Just asking because your signature seems to flaunt yours.

And now we wait for the spitting hysterical randbot rage claiming that you're the angry one taking things out of context and that he's trying to make a joke and that SHUT UP! He's a delicate and special snowflake that's more entitled to his perspective and life and others not as smart as him don't deserve nice things because he sacrifices where they don't and it's all because he's "smarter" than the rest of us just look at his choices and income and education and background and every man is an island unto themselves and and and...

[Bakari]

That's a little meaner than usual IP.
You feelin ok otherwise?