Why do we have to go everywhere with him?

[Chrissy]

We have two girls, ages 2 & 4.  We have one car.  We live near my inlaws:  my FIL is deaf and has macular degeneration; my MIL has dementia. 

Last night, Husband says tomorrow morning he'll go pick up an order for closet concepts at Home Depot.  This morning, Husband asks me to go with him--thus, all of us must go.  It's my name on the order, and he didn't want to risk being turned away.  I told him he could've called them.  He says he didn't think of it... but then he STILL DOESN'T CALL???  So, I call, and change the name on the order.  Then, he STILL DOESN'T GO???

Husband wanted us all to go to his parents' house for the football game, today.  He asked his mother WITH DEMENTIA to make chili (which the girls won't eat) and says he'll bring all the ingredients.  But he didn't go to the store, which means the kids and I will have to accompany him.  A football game is 3 hours of me having to parent the kids without help, in a house that isn't child-friendly, and I'll probably end up making the chili AND something for the girls.  Then, he wants to go to Trick-or-Treating.  Then, he wants to Home Depot.

There's no way the girls can withstand that schedule.

I suggested he just pick us up for Trick-or-Treating.  He called us all bums, and, "What would be the point?"  But, if we do his insane itinerary the girls will meltdown, and he'll be pissed about that, too.

This has been happening for a year.  He will not willingly go anywhere without ALL of us going.  Yet, when the girls act up, he'll admit it was a bad idea... but then he continues coming up with this stuff.  He does ZERO parenting, so it's not about togetherness.  The girls and I go places without him all the time, so it's not about control.  But WTF is happening and how can I get him to stop???

[wenchsenior]

Huh.  Any personality changes other than this?  Any sign of substance abuse?  (This strikes me as the sort of thing one addict I know would do when trying to stay clean...he didn't trust himself to be alone).  Any signs of depression or psychological problems apart from this?

[mspym]

Hmmm, are the two of you getting any time together without the girls? I would try talk to him about what is happening and what he is trying to get out of his group outing suggestions, at a time when you are not in the middle of one. I think it would help to know from him what is prompting this.

[ender]

I've definitely found myself wanting my wife/young kid to come with me when I go to stores since covid started (even Home Depot, which is something that's mostly for me) because as a family we hardly do anything out socially now.

But this seems very different than what you are describing.

[John Galt incarnate!]

We have two girls, ages 2 & 4.  We have one car.  We live near my inlaws:  my FIL is deaf and has macular degeneration; my MIL has dementia. 

Last night, Husband says tomorrow morning he'll go pick up an order for closet concepts at Home Depot.  This morning, Husband asks me to go with him--thus, all of us must go.  It's my name on the order, and he didn't want to risk being turned away.  I told him he could've called them.  He says he didn't think of it... but then he STILL DOESN'T CALL???  So, I call, and change the name on the order.  Then, he STILL DOESN'T GO???

Husband wanted us all to go to his parents' house for the football game, today.  He asked his mother WITH DEMENTIA to make chili (which the girls won't eat) and says he'll bring all the ingredients.  But he didn't go to the store, which means the kids and I will have to accompany him.  A football game is 3 hours of me having to parent the kids without help, in a house that isn't child-friendly, and I'll probably end up making the chili AND something for the girls.  Then, he wants to go to Trick-or-Treating.  Then, he wants to Home Depot.

There's no way the girls can withstand that schedule.

I suggested he just pick us up for Trick-or-Treating.  He called us all bums, and, "What would be the point?"  But, if we do his insane itinerary the girls will meltdown, and he'll be pissed about that, too.

This has been happening for a year.  He will not willingly go anywhere without ALL of us going.  Yet, when the girls act up, he'll admit it was a bad idea... but then he continues coming up with this stuff.  He does ZERO parenting, so it's not about togetherness.  The girls and I go places without him all the time, so it's not about control.  But WTF is happening and how can I get him to stop???

Could  H be suffering from and controlled by  a dreadfully  fearful premonition he cannot express?

If so, is  his constant  closeness  to his family  ameliorative?

[Letj]

Could your husband have suddenly developed crippling anxiety or some kind of social phobia? It’s the sort of thing a man would have a hard time expressing. I knew someone who suddenly developed an irrational fear that something bad was going to happen to his family and couldn’t let them out of his sight. Terrible for the wife since he had to go everywhere with them. 

[OtherJen]

Could your husband have suddenly developed crippling anxiety or some kind of social phobia? It’s the sort of thing a man would have a hard time expressing. I knew someone who suddenly developed an irrational fear that something bad was going to happen to his family and couldn’t let them out of his sight. Terrible for the wife since he had to go everywhere with them.

That was my thought, too. The current pandemic/political situation is escalating a lot of mental health issues. Procrastination and irrationality can be manifestations of anxiety.

[SunnyDays]

So what happened a year ago to trigger this?  Was it a gradual or abrupt change?  Apart from this, is he still his usual self?  In a year, why haven't you asked him what's going on?  That failure and the fact he does zero parenting says that there are more major family issues that just this.

[Chrissy]

Huh.  Any personality changes other than this?  Any sign of substance abuse?  (This strikes me as the sort of thing one addict I know would do when trying to stay clean...he didn't trust himself to be alone).  Any signs of depression or psychological problems apart from this?

Omg, YES.  He has early-waking insomnia and is moody.  He's open about these being symptoms of burnout from work, but I didn't identify this particular behavior as "social anxiety" or connect them with the burnout/depression.  Thank you!

[Chrissy]

Hmmm, are the two of you getting any time together without the girls? I would try talk to him about what is happening and what he is trying to get out of his group outing suggestions, at a time when you are not in the middle of one. I think it would help to know from him what is prompting this.

We moved three days ago, and the decision was sudden due to my company announcing that they were continuing my furlough [and everyone else's] indefinitely... so, no, we haven't had time together.  And, we have no childcare here yet, so it may be awhile.  Yes, that could be a contributing factor.

[Chrissy]

We have two girls, ages 2 & 4.  We have one car.  We live near my inlaws:  my FIL is deaf and has macular degeneration; my MIL has dementia. 

Last night, Husband says tomorrow morning he'll go pick up an order for closet concepts at Home Depot.  This morning, Husband asks me to go with him--thus, all of us must go.  It's my name on the order, and he didn't want to risk being turned away.  I told him he could've called them.  He says he didn't think of it... but then he STILL DOESN'T CALL???  So, I call, and change the name on the order.  Then, he STILL DOESN'T GO???

Husband wanted us all to go to his parents' house for the football game, today.  He asked his mother WITH DEMENTIA to make chili (which the girls won't eat) and says he'll bring all the ingredients.  But he didn't go to the store, which means the kids and I will have to accompany him.  A football game is 3 hours of me having to parent the kids without help, in a house that isn't child-friendly, and I'll probably end up making the chili AND something for the girls.  Then, he wants to go to Trick-or-Treating.  Then, he wants to Home Depot.

There's no way the girls can withstand that schedule.

I suggested he just pick us up for Trick-or-Treating.  He called us all bums, and, "What would be the point?"  But, if we do his insane itinerary the girls will meltdown, and he'll be pissed about that, too.

This has been happening for a year.  He will not willingly go anywhere without ALL of us going.  Yet, when the girls act up, he'll admit it was a bad idea... but then he continues coming up with this stuff.  He does ZERO parenting, so it's not about togetherness.  The girls and I go places without him all the time, so it's not about control.  But WTF is happening and how can I get him to stop???

Could  H be suffering from and controlled by  a dreadfully  fearful premonition he cannot express?

If so, is  his constant  closeness  to his family  ameliorative?

Maybe.  He has a recurring dream that the girls have been taken from him, or he's not allowed to see them.

[Chrissy]

So what happened a year ago to trigger this?  Was it a gradual or abrupt change?  Apart from this, is he still his usual self?  In a year, why haven't you asked him what's going on?  That failure and the fact he does zero parenting says that there are more major family issues that just this.

The work at the job changed last year.  He asked for the change, but it increased the load significantly.  I'd connected the other behaviors to the job, but not this particular behavior until now.  It was bad enough for me to complain to my SIL ~6mo ago, so it'd been going on for awhile at that point.  It takes a lot to bother me.

Yes, there are more issues... and that's all I'll say about that!

[Metalcat]

Have you talked to him about this?

[fuzzy math]

So what happened a year ago to trigger this?  Was it a gradual or abrupt change?  Apart from this, is he still his usual self?  In a year, why haven't you asked him what's going on?  That failure and the fact he does zero parenting says that there are more major family issues that just this.

The work at the job changed last year.  He asked for the change, but it increased the load significantly.  I'd connected the other behaviors to the job, but not this particular behavior until now.  It was bad enough for me to complain to my SIL ~6mo ago, so it'd been going on for awhile at that point.  It takes a lot to bother me.

Yes, there are more issues... and that's all I'll say about that!

I watched my BIL crumble under the weight of his baseline level of mental illness PLUS the added stress of additional work responsibilities PLUS the added stress of early waking insomnia.

Never underestimate how much the lack of sleep might be affecting him. It sounds like he needs some help or intervention beyond what he used to need.

[John Galt incarnate!]

We have two girls, ages 2 & 4.  We have one car.  We live near my inlaws:  my FIL is deaf and has macular degeneration; my MIL has dementia. 

Last night, Husband says tomorrow morning he'll go pick up an order for closet concepts at Home Depot.  This morning, Husband asks me to go with him--thus, all of us must go.  It's my name on the order, and he didn't want to risk being turned away.  I told him he could've called them.  He says he didn't think of it... but then he STILL DOESN'T CALL???  So, I call, and change the name on the order.  Then, he STILL DOESN'T GO???

Husband wanted us all to go to his parents' house for the football game, today.  He asked his mother WITH DEMENTIA to make chili (which the girls won't eat) and says he'll bring all the ingredients.  But he didn't go to the store, which means the kids and I will have to accompany him.  A football game is 3 hours of me having to parent the kids without help, in a house that isn't child-friendly, and I'll probably end up making the chili AND something for the girls.  Then, he wants to go to Trick-or-Treating.  Then, he wants to Home Depot.

There's no way the girls can withstand that schedule.

I suggested he just pick us up for Trick-or-Treating.  He called us all bums, and, "What would be the point?"  But, if we do his insane itinerary the girls will meltdown, and he'll be pissed about that, too.

This has been happening for a year.  He will not willingly go anywhere without ALL of us going.  Yet, when the girls act up, he'll admit it was a bad idea... but then he continues coming up with this stuff.  He does ZERO parenting, so it's not about togetherness.  The girls and I go places without him all the time, so it's not about control.  But WTF is happening and how can I get him to stop???

Could  H be suffering from and controlled by  a dreadfully  fearful premonition he cannot express?

If so, is  his constant  closeness  to his family  ameliorative?

Maybe.  He has a recurring dream that the girls have been taken from him, or he's not allowed to see them.

Perhaps  H  has incessant ruminations about a  divorce that would result in you getting custody of the children.

I understand that this most  unhappy post might upset you.

 Nevertheless, I posted it because I am of a mind that I ought to always express unvarnished thoughts and  opinions to my fellow Mu$tachians.

[nessness]

Is the lack of parenting new too, or has he always been like that?

If you put your foot down and refuse to go, does he pout but then go anyway, or stay home?

[partgypsy]

I don't know why but this rings some warning signs with me, whether it is depression, anxiety, or whatever. One case I knew it was due to early onset dementia. Probably not the case here but it's concerning.  It is clearly putting burden on you he can't do any outings or eerands without you (and 2 small children). And why is he doing 0 childcare? I think he needs some additional help even via phone/video. He will probably not agree, but in this case I may make the arrangements for counseling and just have it happen. 2nd any way that you can get a sitter? Maybe someone retired in the neighborhood who is otherwise isolating? Just that alone (being sole caregiver for a 4 and 2 year old) must be stressful as well as build resentment, negatively affect the relationship.

[bbqbonelesswing]

Does your husband have any friends that he can hang out with instead?

[use2betrix]

Have you talked to him about this?

This 100%. If you haven’t already directly talked about this, then that communication issue also needs to be addressed (by both of you).

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Man-child.

[FLBiker]

To me, the bigger red flag than him always wanting you to be with him is the zero parenting.  That's not a partner.

And, personally, I'm very much on the "we need to do this in a way that works for the small child / children" side of things (we have a 5 year old).  Adults need to be able to adjust their plans / expectations, and little kids have a much harder time with that.  I don't do marathons, regardless of what other family members or friends may want (or do themselves).

But as others have said -- talk to him about this.  Find out what's going on and be very clear about what is and is not working for you.

[Chrissy]

Have you talked to him about this?

We've talked about NEVER bringing the kids to the store if it can be helped.  We may have to expand on the theme.

[Metalcat]

Have you talked to him about this?

We've talked about NEVER bringing the kids to the store if it can be helped.  We may have to expand on the theme.

Have you ever just talked to him the way you are talking to us about it? If not, why not?
Does he have any clue how you feel about any of this? Have you ever asked him why he feels the need to always do this?

[Chrissy]

We have two girls, ages 2 & 4.  We have one car.  We live near my inlaws:  my FIL is deaf and has macular degeneration; my MIL has dementia. 

Last night, Husband says tomorrow morning he'll go pick up an order for closet concepts at Home Depot.  This morning, Husband asks me to go with him--thus, all of us must go.  It's my name on the order, and he didn't want to risk being turned away.  I told him he could've called them.  He says he didn't think of it... but then he STILL DOESN'T CALL???  So, I call, and change the name on the order.  Then, he STILL DOESN'T GO???

Husband wanted us all to go to his parents' house for the football game, today.  He asked his mother WITH DEMENTIA to make chili (which the girls won't eat) and says he'll bring all the ingredients.  But he didn't go to the store, which means the kids and I will have to accompany him.  A football game is 3 hours of me having to parent the kids without help, in a house that isn't child-friendly, and I'll probably end up making the chili AND something for the girls.  Then, he wants to go to Trick-or-Treating.  Then, he wants to Home Depot.

There's no way the girls can withstand that schedule.

I suggested he just pick us up for Trick-or-Treating.  He called us all bums, and, "What would be the point?"  But, if we do his insane itinerary the girls will meltdown, and he'll be pissed about that, too.

This has been happening for a year.  He will not willingly go anywhere without ALL of us going.  Yet, when the girls act up, he'll admit it was a bad idea... but then he continues coming up with this stuff.  He does ZERO parenting, so it's not about togetherness.  The girls and I go places without him all the time, so it's not about control.  But WTF is happening and how can I get him to stop???

Could  H be suffering from and controlled by  a dreadfully  fearful premonition he cannot express?

If so, is  his constant  closeness  to his family  ameliorative?

Maybe.  He has a recurring dream that the girls have been taken from him, or he's not allowed to see them.

Perhaps  H  has incessant ruminations about a  divorce that would result in you getting custody of the children.

I understand that this most  unhappy post might upset you.

 Nevertheless, I posted it because I am of a mind that I ought to always express unvarnished thoughts and  opinions to my fellow Mu$tachians.

He said once that he "felt" I was threatening divorce.  I have never once said that word or implied it in any way, and told him I wouldn't bother with it.  I also reassured him that the courts do 50/50 split custody these days unless someone can prove one of the parents is a serial killer.

[Chrissy]

Is the lack of parenting new too, or has he always been like that?

If you put your foot down and refuse to go, does he pout but then go anyway, or stay home?

He's always been like this.  He talked a good game about how great he was going to be, and how much he did with his friends kids and his nephew.  But then... well he can't nurse a baby, well they're just too little, well work is too much, etc.

UPDATE:  He went without us and did all the things.  He came back as I was getting the girls in their costumes.  I took them out by myself, but he caught up to us after the first house.  He was not pouty, and didn't sabotage us.

[Chrissy]

I don't know why but this rings some warning signs with me, whether it is depression, anxiety, or whatever. One case I knew it was due to early onset dementia. Probably not the case here but it's concerning.  It is clearly putting burden on you he can't do any outings or eerands without you (and 2 small children). And why is he doing 0 childcare? I think he needs some additional help even via phone/video. He will probably not agree, but in this case I may make the arrangements for counseling and just have it happen. 2nd any way that you can get a sitter? Maybe someone retired in the neighborhood who is otherwise isolating? Just that alone (being sole caregiver for a 4 and 2 year old) must be stressful as well as build resentment, negatively affect the relationship.

He will not agree to counseling.  I've tried many times to get him to go.  Get this, his father was a child psychologist, and his mother was a counselor!  Eh, I went by myself.

We just moved here last week, so I'm still working out childcare.

[Metalcat]

Chrissy, it really sounds like you two don't communicate much at all about anything. The amount that's left unsaid between you is insane.

If he won't go to counselling, that doesn't mean that you can't put your foot down and demand some deeper communication.

[Chrissy]

Does your husband have any friends that he can hang out with instead?

Maybe.  He grew up in this area, and some of his friends might still be here.  We just moved here last week, so I don't know.

[Chrissy]

Man-child.

@AnnaGrowsAMustache nailed it!  She wins the thread.

[Chrissy]

Chrissy, it really sounds like you two don't communicate much at all about anything. The amount that's left unsaid between you is insane.

If he won't go to counselling, that doesn't mean that you can't put your foot down and demand some deeper communication.

To everyone asking if I've talked to him... yes.  A lot about his other behaviors and patterns, a little discussion about the new behavior.  And, four year ago, I went to counseling, and worked out what I was going to do.  I've even gone so far as to tell him, "I am a partner to you, but you're not a partner to me."  I'm not shy, but he DARVOs, and I'm not up for more of that.  We're both aware of our situation.  Some part of his brain is even giving him nightmares about it.  But, if he doesn't make an effort, there's certainly nothing I can do except live my life the best way I can.

The problems prior to this have been absence and negligence.  The silver lining to that was total autonomy for me, and I made a lot of lemonade out of those lemons for myself and the kids.  Demanding we go with him places, having (unrealistic) expectations about the kids is brand new, and has been really throwing me!  There's not a drop of lemonade to be drunk from it.

However, now I see it's part of the depression/burnout, and that's really helpful to know.  It means it will continue, and he will not be reasoned out of it, just like the other parts of the depression/burnout.  So, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.  I've stopped beating my head against the wall, and started making some wily plans.

[Sibley]

Something else you should consider. How much are you willing to tolerate?

Look, this is a guy who won't go to counseling, won't help with the kids, presumably won't address depression/anxiety, etc. You are allowed to pull the plug on the whole situation and say that if you're going to be a single parent anyway, damn it it'd be easier to actually BE a single parent.

I'm not saying get a divorce. I am saying that you matter too. Where is the line in the sand for you? At what point do you call the lawyer? Only you can answer that. So think about it.

[Metalcat]

Chrissy, it really sounds like you two don't communicate much at all about anything. The amount that's left unsaid between you is insane.

If he won't go to counselling, that doesn't mean that you can't put your foot down and demand some deeper communication.

To everyone asking if I've talked to him... yes.  A lot about his other behaviors and patterns, a little discussion about the new behavior.  And, four year ago, I went to counseling, and worked out what I was going to do.  I've even gone so far as to tell him, "I am a partner to you, but you're not a partner to me."  I'm not shy, but he DARVOs, and I'm not up for more of that.  We're both aware of our situation.  Some part of his brain is even giving him nightmares about it.  But, if he doesn't make an effort, there's certainly nothing I can do except live my life the best way I can.

The problems prior to this have been absence and negligence.  The silver lining to that was total autonomy for me, and I made a lot of lemonade out of those lemons for myself and the kids.  Demanding we go with him places, having (unrealistic) expectations about the kids is brand new, and has been really throwing me!  There's not a drop of lemonade to be drunk from it.

However, now I see it's part of the depression/burnout, and that's really helpful to know.  It means it will continue, and he will not be reasoned out of it, just like the other parts of the depression/burnout.  So, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.  I've stopped beating my head against the wall, and started making some wily plans.

Ah okay. So it sounds like you're willing to talk and he's not really willing to listen, to anything, ever really, other than to have nightmares?

You have a tough situation on your hands. I'm sorry you don't have a partner in your marriage, that sounds unbearable.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Man-child.

@AnnaGrowsAMustache nailed it!  She wins the thread.

Unfortunately, it doesn't much help the situation. I have a friend who was in a similar sounding situation for years. In the end she decided she could actually do better on her own. So she did.

[Just Joe]

Does your husband have any friends that he can hang out with instead?

Yes, this. COVID is doing a number on the most social of people we know. Us homebodies are faring much better.

We know someone in a marriage like this. Husband is similar to your's. 20+ years and he has never improved. His contributions are negative statements. Debbie downer type stuff. No one wants to be around him much. He won't get counseling. Due to low incomes, nobody seems to be able to escape. So there they are - grown children, a SO plus grandkids even, and the two parents stuck together all under one roof.

Seems like every time someone is close to financially escaping they sabotage themselves with a new shiny thing or they lose a job.

[bbqbonelesswing]

Does your husband have any friends that he can hang out with instead?

Maybe.  He grew up in this area, and some of his friends might still be here.  We just moved here last week, so I don't know.

It sounds like this guy needs to give some of those old friends a call. Get him out of the house every once in a while.

[Metalcat]

Does your husband have any friends that he can hang out with instead?

Maybe.  He grew up in this area, and some of his friends might still be here.  We just moved here last week, so I don't know.

It sounds like this guy needs to give some of those old friends a call. Get him out of the house every once in a while.

It sounds like this guy needs a lot of things he hasn't done or isn't willing to do.

[alcon835]

You need real counseling, not an online forum. The issues here are clearly deeper and more robust than are realized and the two of you are clearly not communicating effectively.

This is exactly what a counselor will help you with.

[NextTime]

I've definitely found myself wanting my wife/young kid to come with me when I go to stores since covid started (even Home Depot, which is something that's mostly for me) because as a family we hardly do anything out socially now.

But this seems very different than what you are describing.

I understand the sentiment, but I’ve been the exact opposite. I haven’t wanted anyone to go with me due to exposure risk.  My wife is high risk so i guess I’m overly cautious.

[norajean]

Have you considered that you may be part or even most of the problem? A counselor could help sort this out and figure who needs to do what,

[bbates728]

Reading through this thread, it really seems that you are coming to us trying to vent instead of looking for ways to handle it. I say this because of how calling him a "man-child" has been one of the few things that has generated a positive response from OP. If that is indeed the case, I am happy that we are here to support :) the situation sucks!

If that isn't the case, I echo the suggestion for counseling and I would specifically suggest couple's therapy. It would be good to have a space and time where communication can happen and where blame isn't at the forefront of the conversation. Even if it is because of burnout, it may be good for him to realize the toll it is taking on the family and for you both to come up with a joint plan on how to move forward with recovery.

Good luck! I wish you the best!

[Chrissy]

I did come here looking for reasons he wanted us to go everywhere with him, and how to handle it.  The responses here were really insightful, and helped me realize there's really nothing I can do... other than maintain boundaries.

@norajean I'm not sure how I could be part of most of him wanting us all to go everywhere with him.  He planned a lovely afternoon at a pumpkin-carving event, and then Trunk-or-Treating the day before.  Brought us back in-between for a break and everything.  Totally doable and appropriate for the kids, and we all had a great time.  This was not that.

He will not go to counseling; and his quote about it is, "If we need counseling, we might as well divorce."  I went to counseling by myself early in the marriage, and through that determined that my own behavior and manner of communication was appropriate.

[Metalcat]

I did come here looking for reasons he wanted us to go everywhere with him, and how to handle it.  The responses here were really insightful, and helped me realize there's really nothing I can do... other than maintain boundaries.

@norajean I'm not sure how I could be part of most of him wanting us all to go everywhere with him.  He planned a lovely afternoon at a pumpkin-carving event, and then Trunk-or-Treating the day before.  Brought us back in-between for a break and everything.  Totally doable and appropriate for the kids, and we all had a great time.  This was not that.

He will not go to counseling; and his quote about it is, "If we need counseling, we might as well divorce."  I went to counseling by myself early in the marriage, and through that determined that my own behavior and manner of communication was appropriate.

"If you're unwilling to even try counselling then we might as well get divorced" is my response to that.