Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 218456 times)

GilbertB

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3050 on: April 21, 2017, 06:49:55 AM »
Good to see that the US has finally seen the error of its ways and opted for a royal family. The "first daughter" will make an "official" visit to Germany.
A Royal Family of German stock, as in any proper Royal Familly.

MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3051 on: April 21, 2017, 06:54:42 AM »
You're claiming that your words mean something other than what they specifically say.

This explains a lot - thanks for the clarification!
Or, I realize that it's literally impossible to prove a negative. You know that, right?

Of course it's not impossible. You sentence itself is a negative and thus, by your own logic, not provable.

You are doing a fantastic job trolling.

Troll, or could be he actually believes the nonsense.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive ( :

FrugalToque

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3052 on: April 21, 2017, 07:16:37 AM »
Well, this is all pretty irritating.  You guys going at it like this and I get the moderation requests.

Look
a) It is possible to prove a negative:
You: "I accuse you of punching me in the face on May 25, 1965."
Me:  "Here's my birth certificate.  I was born in 1976."

b) Courts of law do not prove negatives.  They only find you "not guilty".  In some countries, there are also verdicts like "not proven"
"Actual innocence" is a different thing you can read about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_innocence

Donald Trump is a special case, not just because he's president, but because he literally bragged about his ability to sexual assault women and get away with it, then declared that he'd never really done that ... and then women came forward to say, "Yeah, that's basically exactly what he did to me."  It's like having a confession, but one not specific to each individual criminal accusation.

Now, if the bunch of you aren't going to stop all this trolling, name-calling and assorted bullshit, I'm going to can the whole lot of you.

Toque.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3053 on: April 21, 2017, 07:22:51 AM »
Well, this is all pretty irritating.  You guys going at it like this and I get the moderation requests.

Look
a) It is possible to prove a negative:
You: "I accuse you of punching me in the face on May 25, 1965."
Me:  "Here's my birth certificate.  I was born in 1976."

b) Courts of law do not prove negatives.  They only find you "not guilty".  In some countries, there are also verdicts like "not proven"
"Actual innocence" is a different thing you can read about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_innocence

Donald Trump is a special case, not just because he's president, but because he literally bragged about his ability to sexual assault women and get away with it, then declared that he'd never really done that ... and then women came forward to say, "Yeah, that's basically exactly what he did to me."  It's like having a confession, but one not specific to each individual criminal accusation.

Now, if the bunch of you aren't going to stop all this trolling, name-calling and assorted bullshit, I'm going to can the whole lot of you.

Toque.
I'm not trolling. For what it's worth, despite many being spewed towards me, I have yet to name call a single time on this website.

Anyways, his comments didn't describe sexual assault, it described women LETTING him do it. He literally said, "they let you do it." A far-cry from sexual assault, and clearly implying consent.

With that being said, I think everyone here, myself included, would at least appreciate if people would cut down the quotes on quotes on quotes. Getting hard to track, and makes the page longer.

FrugalToque

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3054 on: April 21, 2017, 07:45:08 AM »
Well, this is all pretty irritating.  You guys going at it like this and I get the moderation requests.

Look
a) It is possible to prove a negative:
You: "I accuse you of punching me in the face on May 25, 1965."
Me:  "Here's my birth certificate.  I was born in 1976."

b) Courts of law do not prove negatives.  They only find you "not guilty".  In some countries, there are also verdicts like "not proven"
"Actual innocence" is a different thing you can read about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_innocence

Donald Trump is a special case, not just because he's president, but because he literally bragged about his ability to sexual assault women and get away with it, then declared that he'd never really done that ... and then women came forward to say, "Yeah, that's basically exactly what he did to me."  It's like having a confession, but one not specific to each individual criminal accusation.

Now, if the bunch of you aren't going to stop all this trolling, name-calling and assorted bullshit, I'm going to can the whole lot of you.

Toque.
I'm not trolling. For what it's worth, despite many being spewed towards me, I have yet to name call a single time on this website.

Anyways, his comments didn't describe sexual assault, it described women LETTING him do it. He literally said, "they let you do it." A far-cry from sexual assault, and clearly implying consent.

"I just start kissing them. Itís like a magnet. Just kiss. I donít even wait. 
And when youíre a star they let you do it. You can do anythingÖ
Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

This does not describe a consensual situation.  At best, it's consent obtained after the fact, which is not a thing.  It's just sexual assault - but with the victim too scared to do anything about it.  If someone goes through his life behaving this way, he's an asshole and he belongs in jail.

You won't do well defending such a person.

Toque.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3055 on: April 21, 2017, 07:51:35 AM »
Well, this is all pretty irritating.  You guys going at it like this and I get the moderation requests.

Look
a) It is possible to prove a negative:
You: "I accuse you of punching me in the face on May 25, 1965."
Me:  "Here's my birth certificate.  I was born in 1976."

b) Courts of law do not prove negatives.  They only find you "not guilty".  In some countries, there are also verdicts like "not proven"
"Actual innocence" is a different thing you can read about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_innocence

Donald Trump is a special case, not just because he's president, but because he literally bragged about his ability to sexual assault women and get away with it, then declared that he'd never really done that ... and then women came forward to say, "Yeah, that's basically exactly what he did to me."  It's like having a confession, but one not specific to each individual criminal accusation.

Now, if the bunch of you aren't going to stop all this trolling, name-calling and assorted bullshit, I'm going to can the whole lot of you.

Toque.
I'm not trolling. For what it's worth, despite many being spewed towards me, I have yet to name call a single time on this website.

Anyways, his comments didn't describe sexual assault, it described women LETTING him do it. He literally said, "they let you do it." A far-cry from sexual assault, and clearly implying consent.

"I just start kissing them. Itís like a magnet. Just kiss. I donít even wait. 
And when youíre a star they let you do it. You can do anythingÖ
Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

This does not describe a consensual situation.  At best, it's consent obtained after the fact, which is not a thing.  It's just sexual assault - but with the victim too scared to do anything about it.  If someone goes through his life behaving this way, he's an asshole and he belongs in jail.

You won't do well defending such a person.

Toque.

Well, to be completely honest, with things like these, we see his words very differently. If we can't agree on what was even said, we'll never be able to agree on premises drawn from that.

Regarding not asking, plenty of people don't ask. When I have sex with my girlfriend, I don't ask, I just do it. Trump is saying that women are letting him, not because they're scared, but because he's rich. He's essentially saying that some women are gold diggers, which I think is pretty accurate.

FrugalToque

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3056 on: April 21, 2017, 07:58:37 AM »

Donald Trump is a special case, not just because he's president, but because he literally bragged about his ability to sexual assault women and get away with it, then declared that he'd never really done that ... and then women came forward to say, "Yeah, that's basically exactly what he did to me."  It's like having a confession, but one not specific to each individual criminal accusation.
Anyways, his comments didn't describe sexual assault, it described women LETTING him do it. He literally said, "they let you do it." A far-cry from sexual assault, and clearly implying consent.

"I just start kissing them. Itís like a magnet. Just kiss. I donít even wait. 
And when youíre a star they let you do it. You can do anythingÖ
Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

This does not describe a consensual situation.  At best, it's consent obtained after the fact, which is not a thing.  It's just sexual assault - but with the victim too scared to do anything about it.  If someone goes through his life behaving this way, he's an asshole and he belongs in jail.

You won't do well defending such a person.

Toque.

Well, to be completely honest, with things like these, we see his words very differently. If we can't agree on what was even said, we'll never be able to agree on premises drawn from that.

Regarding not asking, plenty of people don't ask. When I have sex with my girlfriend, I don't ask, I just do it. Trump is saying that women are letting him, not because they're scared, but because he's rich. He's essentially saying that some women are gold diggers, which I think is pretty accurate.

We don't see his words differently.  I see the words he's using, and you're pretending he said something else.
He is describing kissing and groping women he does not know, on a regular basis, without permission, or any other indications that his touch might be welcome or invited.
At best, it's sexual assault with permission after the fact.
At worst, he's saying he can get away with what he knows is wrong because he's famous and powerful.

There's nothing else there.  He said he gropes strange women and believes that either "they" (the women) or "they" (courts) will let him get away with it.

Don't bother trying to defend sexual assault any further.

Toque.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3057 on: April 21, 2017, 08:01:29 AM »

Donald Trump is a special case, not just because he's president, but because he literally bragged about his ability to sexual assault women and get away with it, then declared that he'd never really done that ... and then women came forward to say, "Yeah, that's basically exactly what he did to me."  It's like having a confession, but one not specific to each individual criminal accusation.
Anyways, his comments didn't describe sexual assault, it described women LETTING him do it. He literally said, "they let you do it." A far-cry from sexual assault, and clearly implying consent.

"I just start kissing them. Itís like a magnet. Just kiss. I donít even wait. 
And when youíre a star they let you do it. You can do anythingÖ
Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

This does not describe a consensual situation.  At best, it's consent obtained after the fact, which is not a thing.  It's just sexual assault - but with the victim too scared to do anything about it.  If someone goes through his life behaving this way, he's an asshole and he belongs in jail.

You won't do well defending such a person.

Toque.

Well, to be completely honest, with things like these, we see his words very differently. If we can't agree on what was even said, we'll never be able to agree on premises drawn from that.

Regarding not asking, plenty of people don't ask. When I have sex with my girlfriend, I don't ask, I just do it. Trump is saying that women are letting him, not because they're scared, but because he's rich. He's essentially saying that some women are gold diggers, which I think is pretty accurate.

We don't see his words differently.  I see the words he's using, and you're pretending he said something else.
He is describing kissing and groping women he does not know, on a regular basis, without permission, or any other indications that his touch might be welcome or invited.
At best, it's sexual assault with permission after the fact.
At worst, he's saying he can get away with what he knows is wrong because he's famous and powerful.

There's nothing else there.  He said he gropes strange women and believes that either "they" (the women) or "they" (courts) will let him get away with it.

Don't bother trying to defend sexual assault any further.

Toque.
When did he say he touches women without permission? If I go in for a kiss, and a woman happily let's me, I didn't ask for permission, but I certainly received it.

Gin1984

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3058 on: April 21, 2017, 08:04:58 AM »

Donald Trump is a special case, not just because he's president, but because he literally bragged about his ability to sexual assault women and get away with it, then declared that he'd never really done that ... and then women came forward to say, "Yeah, that's basically exactly what he did to me."  It's like having a confession, but one not specific to each individual criminal accusation.
Anyways, his comments didn't describe sexual assault, it described women LETTING him do it. He literally said, "they let you do it." A far-cry from sexual assault, and clearly implying consent.

"I just start kissing them. Itís like a magnet. Just kiss. I donít even wait. 
And when youíre a star they let you do it. You can do anythingÖ
Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

This does not describe a consensual situation.  At best, it's consent obtained after the fact, which is not a thing.  It's just sexual assault - but with the victim too scared to do anything about it.  If someone goes through his life behaving this way, he's an asshole and he belongs in jail.

You won't do well defending such a person.

Toque.

Well, to be completely honest, with things like these, we see his words very differently. If we can't agree on what was even said, we'll never be able to agree on premises drawn from that.

Regarding not asking, plenty of people don't ask. When I have sex with my girlfriend, I don't ask, I just do it. Trump is saying that women are letting him, not because they're scared, but because he's rich. He's essentially saying that some women are gold diggers, which I think is pretty accurate.

We don't see his words differently.  I see the words he's using, and you're pretending he said something else.
He is describing kissing and groping women he does not know, on a regular basis, without permission, or any other indications that his touch might be welcome or invited.
At best, it's sexual assault with permission after the fact.
At worst, he's saying he can get away with what he knows is wrong because he's famous and powerful.

There's nothing else there.  He said he gropes strange women and believes that either "they" (the women) or "they" (courts) will let him get away with it.

Don't bother trying to defend sexual assault any further.

Toque.
When did he say he touches women without permission? If I go in for a kiss, and a woman happily let's me, I didn't ask for permission, but I certainly received it.
You are adding in a word he did not.  Happily.  And women (and men for that matter) have been known to freeze when assaulted.  Letting because you did not stop them, is not consent. 

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3059 on: April 21, 2017, 08:09:11 AM »

Donald Trump is a special case, not just because he's president, but because he literally bragged about his ability to sexual assault women and get away with it, then declared that he'd never really done that ... and then women came forward to say, "Yeah, that's basically exactly what he did to me."  It's like having a confession, but one not specific to each individual criminal accusation.
Anyways, his comments didn't describe sexual assault, it described women LETTING him do it. He literally said, "they let you do it." A far-cry from sexual assault, and clearly implying consent.

"I just start kissing them. Itís like a magnet. Just kiss. I donít even wait. 
And when youíre a star they let you do it. You can do anythingÖ
Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

This does not describe a consensual situation.  At best, it's consent obtained after the fact, which is not a thing.  It's just sexual assault - but with the victim too scared to do anything about it.  If someone goes through his life behaving this way, he's an asshole and he belongs in jail.

You won't do well defending such a person.

Toque.

Well, to be completely honest, with things like these, we see his words very differently. If we can't agree on what was even said, we'll never be able to agree on premises drawn from that.

Regarding not asking, plenty of people don't ask. When I have sex with my girlfriend, I don't ask, I just do it. Trump is saying that women are letting him, not because they're scared, but because he's rich. He's essentially saying that some women are gold diggers, which I think is pretty accurate.

We don't see his words differently.  I see the words he's using, and you're pretending he said something else.
He is describing kissing and groping women he does not know, on a regular basis, without permission, or any other indications that his touch might be welcome or invited.
At best, it's sexual assault with permission after the fact.
At worst, he's saying he can get away with what he knows is wrong because he's famous and powerful.

There's nothing else there.  He said he gropes strange women and believes that either "they" (the women) or "they" (courts) will let him get away with it.

Don't bother trying to defend sexual assault any further.

Toque.
When did he say he touches women without permission? If I go in for a kiss, and a woman happily let's me, I didn't ask for permission, but I certainly received it.
You are adding in a word he did not.  Happily.  And women (and men for that matter) have been known to freeze when assaulted.  Letting because you did not stop them, is not consent.
I wasn't directly quoting him, I was using my own example where permission wasn't verbally given, but clearly consent was there.

And are you not doing the same, by saying that these women were not consenting? How can you say that? Especially when he's not even talking about any specific situation.

People are getting on his case as well about the pussy grabbing comments. But which actual women did he do that to? And when did he ever suggest that it was meant to be taken as against their consent?

Sure, there's no way right now for me to prove he didn't mean without consent. But the opposite is also true.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3060 on: April 21, 2017, 08:11:53 AM »

Donald Trump is a special case, not just because he's president, but because he literally bragged about his ability to sexual assault women and get away with it, then declared that he'd never really done that ... and then women came forward to say, "Yeah, that's basically exactly what he did to me."  It's like having a confession, but one not specific to each individual criminal accusation.
Anyways, his comments didn't describe sexual assault, it described women LETTING him do it. He literally said, "they let you do it." A far-cry from sexual assault, and clearly implying consent.

"I just start kissing them. Itís like a magnet. Just kiss. I donít even wait. 
And when youíre a star they let you do it. You can do anythingÖ
Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

This does not describe a consensual situation.  At best, it's consent obtained after the fact, which is not a thing.  It's just sexual assault - but with the victim too scared to do anything about it.  If someone goes through his life behaving this way, he's an asshole and he belongs in jail.

You won't do well defending such a person.

Toque.

Well, to be completely honest, with things like these, we see his words very differently. If we can't agree on what was even said, we'll never be able to agree on premises drawn from that.

Regarding not asking, plenty of people don't ask. When I have sex with my girlfriend, I don't ask, I just do it. Trump is saying that women are letting him, not because they're scared, but because he's rich. He's essentially saying that some women are gold diggers, which I think is pretty accurate.

We don't see his words differently.  I see the words he's using, and you're pretending he said something else.
He is describing kissing and groping women he does not know, on a regular basis, without permission, or any other indications that his touch might be welcome or invited.
At best, it's sexual assault with permission after the fact.
At worst, he's saying he can get away with what he knows is wrong because he's famous and powerful.

There's nothing else there.  He said he gropes strange women and believes that either "they" (the women) or "they" (courts) will let him get away with it.

Don't bother trying to defend sexual assault any further.

Toque.
When did he say he touches women without permission? If I go in for a kiss, and a woman happily let's me, I didn't ask for permission, but I certainly received it.
You are adding in a word he did not.  Happily.  And women (and men for that matter) have been known to freeze when assaulted.  Letting because you did not stop them, is not consent.

Agreed. I have been accosted before by a man who has pulled me in and kissed me before I had time to react. Or in Trump's terms, they "just kiss. They don't even wait."

I can assure you, I did NOT give my consent. And frankly, they deserved a good kick in the balls, which I was too shocked to give, unfortunately.

I imagine Trump (probably correctly) assumes the women he assaults will not kick him in the balls because he's rich and they're too afraid to give him what he deserves. That seems to be his vision of "consent" -- or, in his terms, "letting him." Not because they want him to. But in his own words, because he's a star. He knows he can do what he wants because he has power.

He's a pig. And let's not forget he was saying he does this while he was already married to Melania.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3061 on: April 21, 2017, 08:15:21 AM »


Agreed. I have been accosted before by a man who has pulled me in and kissed me before I had time to react. Or in Trump's terms, they "just kiss. They don't even wait."

I can assure you, I did NOT give my consent. And frankly, they deserved a good kick in the balls, which I was too shocked to give, unfortunately.

I imagine Trump (probably correctly) assumes the women he assaults will not kick him in the balls because he's rich and they're too afraid to give him what he deserves. That seems to be his vision of "consent" -- or, in his terms, "letting him." Not because they want him to. But in his own words, because he's a star. He knows he can do what he wants because he has power.

He's a pig. And let's not forget he was saying he does this while he was already married to Melania.
Those guys are definitely in the wrong. But what did Trump say that suggested he does that, knowing that they won't tell because they fear him?

At best, people are reaching. At worst, they're defaming him by accusing him of being a sexual predator.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3062 on: April 21, 2017, 08:18:48 AM »


Agreed. I have been accosted before by a man who has pulled me in and kissed me before I had time to react. Or in Trump's terms, they "just kiss. They don't even wait."

I can assure you, I did NOT give my consent. And frankly, they deserved a good kick in the balls, which I was too shocked to give, unfortunately.

I imagine Trump (probably correctly) assumes the women he assaults will not kick him in the balls because he's rich and they're too afraid to give him what he deserves. That seems to be his vision of "consent" -- or, in his terms, "letting him." Not because they want him to. But in his own words, because he's a star. He knows he can do what he wants because he has power.

He's a pig. And let's not forget he was saying he does this while he was already married to Melania.
Those guys are definitely in the wrong. But what did Trump say that suggested he does that, knowing that they won't tell because they fear him?

At best, people are reaching. At worst, they're defaming him by accusing him of being a sexual predator.

He said: "I don't wait" (for consent). "They let me." Not "They want me to." They LET him.

It's about what he can get away with, MrMonkeyMoustache. Not what the women want. He does not care about that. This is explicit in his words.

I'd say I can't believe you don't see this. But I think instead you're trying really, really hard not to see it.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Miskatonic

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3063 on: April 21, 2017, 08:19:06 AM »
Well, to be completely honest, with things like these, we see his words very differently. If we can't agree on what was even said, we'll never be able to agree on premises drawn from that.

Regarding not asking, plenty of people don't ask. When I have sex with my girlfriend, I don't ask, I just do it. Trump is saying that women are letting him, not because they're scared, but because he's rich. He's essentially saying that some women are gold diggers, which I think is pretty accurate.

Ho-ly shit.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3064 on: April 21, 2017, 08:22:39 AM »


Agreed. I have been accosted before by a man who has pulled me in and kissed me before I had time to react. Or in Trump's terms, they "just kiss. They don't even wait."

I can assure you, I did NOT give my consent. And frankly, they deserved a good kick in the balls, which I was too shocked to give, unfortunately.

I imagine Trump (probably correctly) assumes the women he assaults will not kick him in the balls because he's rich and they're too afraid to give him what he deserves. That seems to be his vision of "consent" -- or, in his terms, "letting him." Not because they want him to. But in his own words, because he's a star. He knows he can do what he wants because he has power.

He's a pig. And let's not forget he was saying he does this while he was already married to Melania.
Those guys are definitely in the wrong. But what did Trump say that suggested he does that, knowing that they won't tell because they fear him?

At best, people are reaching. At worst, they're defaming him by accusing him of being a sexual predator.

He said: "I don't wait" (for consent). "They let me." Not "They want me to." They LET him.

It's about what he can get away with, MrMonkeyMoustache. Not what the women want. He does not care about that. This is explicit in his words.

I'd say I can't believe you don't see this. But I think instead you're trying really, really hard not to see it.
But you just added in "for consent". He didn't say that. Adding that in implies that he purposely ignores lack of consent, and knowingly does these things against their will. At best, you can say that he may have done it against a woman's consent without intention. What women, we have no idea, since this was just a general statement. That's all that can be certain. Anything else is pure speculation.

I just think it was a poor choice of words. Nothing he said in that indicates to me that he knowingly sexually assaults women. I think saying that is a huge reach.

Gin1984

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3065 on: April 21, 2017, 08:26:13 AM »

Donald Trump is a special case, not just because he's president, but because he literally bragged about his ability to sexual assault women and get away with it, then declared that he'd never really done that ... and then women came forward to say, "Yeah, that's basically exactly what he did to me."  It's like having a confession, but one not specific to each individual criminal accusation.
Anyways, his comments didn't describe sexual assault, it described women LETTING him do it. He literally said, "they let you do it." A far-cry from sexual assault, and clearly implying consent.

"I just start kissing them. Itís like a magnet. Just kiss. I donít even wait. 
And when youíre a star they let you do it. You can do anythingÖ
Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

This does not describe a consensual situation.  At best, it's consent obtained after the fact, which is not a thing.  It's just sexual assault - but with the victim too scared to do anything about it.  If someone goes through his life behaving this way, he's an asshole and he belongs in jail.

You won't do well defending such a person.

Toque.

Well, to be completely honest, with things like these, we see his words very differently. If we can't agree on what was even said, we'll never be able to agree on premises drawn from that.

Regarding not asking, plenty of people don't ask. When I have sex with my girlfriend, I don't ask, I just do it. Trump is saying that women are letting him, not because they're scared, but because he's rich. He's essentially saying that some women are gold diggers, which I think is pretty accurate.

We don't see his words differently.  I see the words he's using, and you're pretending he said something else.
He is describing kissing and groping women he does not know, on a regular basis, without permission, or any other indications that his touch might be welcome or invited.
At best, it's sexual assault with permission after the fact.
At worst, he's saying he can get away with what he knows is wrong because he's famous and powerful.

There's nothing else there.  He said he gropes strange women and believes that either "they" (the women) or "they" (courts) will let him get away with it.

Don't bother trying to defend sexual assault any further.

Toque.
When did he say he touches women without permission? If I go in for a kiss, and a woman happily let's me, I didn't ask for permission, but I certainly received it.
You are adding in a word he did not.  Happily.  And women (and men for that matter) have been known to freeze when assaulted.  Letting because you did not stop them, is not consent.
I wasn't directly quoting him, I was using my own example where permission wasn't verbally given, but clearly consent was there.

And are you not doing the same, by saying that these women were not consenting? How can you say that? Especially when he's not even talking about any specific situation.

People are getting on his case as well about the pussy grabbing comments. But which actual women did he do that to? And when did he ever suggest that it was meant to be taken as against their consent?

Sure, there's no way right now for me to prove he didn't mean without consent. But the opposite is also true.
Given that multiple women have come out to say he assumed them, no I am not.  Nor would I be otherwise because "letting" does not imply consent. 

Miskatonic

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3066 on: April 21, 2017, 08:27:02 AM »


Agreed. I have been accosted before by a man who has pulled me in and kissed me before I had time to react. Or in Trump's terms, they "just kiss. They don't even wait."

I can assure you, I did NOT give my consent. And frankly, they deserved a good kick in the balls, which I was too shocked to give, unfortunately.

I imagine Trump (probably correctly) assumes the women he assaults will not kick him in the balls because he's rich and they're too afraid to give him what he deserves. That seems to be his vision of "consent" -- or, in his terms, "letting him." Not because they want him to. But in his own words, because he's a star. He knows he can do what he wants because he has power.

He's a pig. And let's not forget he was saying he does this while he was already married to Melania.
Those guys are definitely in the wrong. But what did Trump say that suggested he does that, knowing that they won't tell because they fear him?

At best, people are reaching. At worst, they're defaming him by accusing him of being a sexual predator.

He said: "I don't wait" (for consent). "They let me." Not "They want me to." They LET him.

It's about what he can get away with, MrMonkeyMoustache. Not what the women want. He does not care about that. This is explicit in his words.

I'd say I can't believe you don't see this. But I think instead you're trying really, really hard not to see it.
But you just added in "for consent". He didn't say that. Adding that in implies that he purposely ignores lack of consent, and knowingly does these things against their will. At best, you can say that he may have done it against a woman's consent without intention. What women, we have no idea, since this was just a general statement. That's all that can be certain. Anything else is pure speculation.

I just think it was a poor choice of words. Nothing he said in that indicates to me that he knowingly sexually assaults women. I think saying that is a huge reach.

If you don't wait, there can be no consent. Therefore, he does it without consent, regardless of whether or not they give consent "after the fact" (which is technically impossible). It doesn't matter that you think it was a poor choice of words - his words, taken at face value, clearly say that he does things against the woman's consent. You do the same, apparently.

caracarn

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3067 on: April 21, 2017, 08:31:17 AM »
WOW.  Not seen this thread until now.  Just reading the exchange between The Monkey and others I now further understand how this goof got elected.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3068 on: April 21, 2017, 08:32:08 AM »


Agreed. I have been accosted before by a man who has pulled me in and kissed me before I had time to react. Or in Trump's terms, they "just kiss. They don't even wait."

I can assure you, I did NOT give my consent. And frankly, they deserved a good kick in the balls, which I was too shocked to give, unfortunately.

I imagine Trump (probably correctly) assumes the women he assaults will not kick him in the balls because he's rich and they're too afraid to give him what he deserves. That seems to be his vision of "consent" -- or, in his terms, "letting him." Not because they want him to. But in his own words, because he's a star. He knows he can do what he wants because he has power.

He's a pig. And let's not forget he was saying he does this while he was already married to Melania.
Those guys are definitely in the wrong. But what did Trump say that suggested he does that, knowing that they won't tell because they fear him?

At best, people are reaching. At worst, they're defaming him by accusing him of being a sexual predator.

He said: "I don't wait" (for consent). "They let me." Not "They want me to." They LET him.

It's about what he can get away with, MrMonkeyMoustache. Not what the women want. He does not care about that. This is explicit in his words.

I'd say I can't believe you don't see this. But I think instead you're trying really, really hard not to see it.
But you just added in "for consent". He didn't say that. Adding that in implies that he purposely ignores lack of consent, and knowingly does these things against their will. At best, you can say that he may have done it against a woman's consent without intention. What women, we have no idea, since this was just a general statement. That's all that can be certain. Anything else is pure speculation.

I just think it was a poor choice of words. Nothing he said in that indicates to me that he knowingly sexually assaults women. I think saying that is a huge reach.

If you don't wait, there can be no consent. Therefore, he does it without consent, regardless of whether or not they give consent "after the fact" (which is technically impossible). It doesn't matter that you think it was a poor choice of words - his words, taken at face value, clearly say that he does things against the woman's consent. You do the same, apparently.

So does that mean you believe you have to give verbal consent for it to exist? If I have sex with my GF, but she didn't verbally say yes, can she then come back and say I raped her? Just curious, not assuming you believe that.

@Gin Being accused of something doesn't make it any more or less real than it actually is. Maybe those claims are right. Maybe they're not. But there's absolutely zero evidence, so stating for a fact that he IS a predator is reactionary and ridiculous.

Now, I'm not saying it's the case, but do you think it's even possible that a few women jumped on an opportunity for a pay day when those comments came out? Do you think it's possible that those rape claims the night before the election were timed to prevent him from being elected?

OurTown

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3069 on: April 21, 2017, 08:36:58 AM »
Are you asking a legal or a moral question? 

Miskatonic

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3070 on: April 21, 2017, 08:41:54 AM »

So does that mean you believe you have to give verbal consent for it to exist? If I have sex with my GF, but she didn't verbally say yes, can she then come back and say I raped her? Just curious, not assuming you believe that.

@Gin Being accused of something doesn't make it any more or less real than it actually is. Maybe those claims are right. Maybe they're not. But there's absolutely zero evidence, so stating for a fact that he IS a predator is reactionary and ridiculous.

Now, I'm not saying it's the case, but do you think it's even possible that a few women jumped on an opportunity for a pay day when those comments came out? Do you think it's possible that those rape claims the night before the election were timed to prevent him from being elected?

1. Yes.
2. Yes, that's a possibility.
2a. I'm not saying you need a notarized letter giving consent, but a verbal acknowledgement of what is happening and that it is indeed wanted from both parties is totally natural.
3. You don't know for a fact that there's zero evidence. He's made plenty of settlements.
4. Yes, that's a possibility, but sexual assault is extremely serious and we must take such claims extremely seriously.
5. Do you really want to go down the "dubious claims made right before the election" rabbit hole?

caracarn

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3071 on: April 21, 2017, 08:42:51 AM »


Agreed. I have been accosted before by a man who has pulled me in and kissed me before I had time to react. Or in Trump's terms, they "just kiss. They don't even wait."

I can assure you, I did NOT give my consent. And frankly, they deserved a good kick in the balls, which I was too shocked to give, unfortunately.

I imagine Trump (probably correctly) assumes the women he assaults will not kick him in the balls because he's rich and they're too afraid to give him what he deserves. That seems to be his vision of "consent" -- or, in his terms, "letting him." Not because they want him to. But in his own words, because he's a star. He knows he can do what he wants because he has power.

He's a pig. And let's not forget he was saying he does this while he was already married to Melania.
Those guys are definitely in the wrong. But what did Trump say that suggested he does that, knowing that they won't tell because they fear him?

At best, people are reaching. At worst, they're defaming him by accusing him of being a sexual predator.

He said: "I don't wait" (for consent). "They let me." Not "They want me to." They LET him.

It's about what he can get away with, MrMonkeyMoustache. Not what the women want. He does not care about that. This is explicit in his words.

I'd say I can't believe you don't see this. But I think instead you're trying really, really hard not to see it.
But you just added in "for consent". He didn't say that. Adding that in implies that he purposely ignores lack of consent, and knowingly does these things against their will. At best, you can say that he may have done it against a woman's consent without intention. What women, we have no idea, since this was just a general statement. That's all that can be certain. Anything else is pure speculation.

I just think it was a poor choice of words. Nothing he said in that indicates to me that he knowingly sexually assaults women. I think saying that is a huge reach.

If you don't wait, there can be no consent. Therefore, he does it without consent, regardless of whether or not they give consent "after the fact" (which is technically impossible). It doesn't matter that you think it was a poor choice of words - his words, taken at face value, clearly say that he does things against the woman's consent. You do the same, apparently.

So does that mean you believe you have to give verbal consent for it to exist? If I have sex with my GF, but she didn't verbally say yes, can she then come back and say I raped her? Just curious, not assuming you believe that.


I'm just trying to understand, do you just grab her and start going at it without any conversation?  You may not mean to come across as such an aggressive person, but man these posts sure seem to point to the fact that because she is your GF you just think it's open season whenever you are ready to go.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3072 on: April 21, 2017, 08:44:49 AM »
Okay, that's all I needed to hear. I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this conversation.

acroy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3073 on: April 21, 2017, 08:45:38 AM »
Did anyone watch the tape, and think it was anything but Trump buffooning around, blowing smoke up the young guy's ass? C'mon.
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Miskatonic

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3074 on: April 21, 2017, 08:47:25 AM »
Okay, that's all I needed to hear. I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this conversation.

I knew this probably wasn't going anywhere the moment you said you have sex with your girlfriend without asking, but I hoped some sense could be talked into you. Good luck.

caracarn

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3075 on: April 21, 2017, 08:48:16 AM »
Did anyone watch the tape, and think it was anything but Trump buffooning around, blowing smoke up the young guy's ass? C'mon.
I "buffoon around" all the time with guys, but never in my wildest reality would I ever consider those types of comments appropriate.  So yes, I watched that tape and saw a very clear portrayal of his character and what and how he considers appropriate things to discuss with anyone.

acroy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3076 on: April 21, 2017, 08:51:08 AM »
Did anyone watch the tape, and think it was anything but Trump buffooning around, blowing smoke up the young guy's ass? C'mon.
I "buffoon around" all the time with guys, but never in my wildest reality would I ever consider those types of comments appropriate.  So yes, I watched that tape and saw a very clear portrayal of his character and what and how he considers appropriate things to discuss with anyone.
So, it was inappropriate. Well said.
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radram

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3077 on: April 21, 2017, 08:52:46 AM »
Nothing he said in that indicates to me that he knowingly sexually assaults women. I think saying that is a huge reach.

In this comment I am reminded of Adrian Peterson and his child abuse case. He did to his child what was done to him. I believe that he truly believed he did nothing wrong. Society disagrees with him, and charged him with a crime. He pleaded no contest to a lesser charge. There are no reports of doing the same action.

It is possible Trump believed he did nothing wrong. It is also possible he was wrong and he committed a crime. My opinion is that he knew what he was saying was not a societal norm and not for everyone's ears.

I don't wait. They let me.

Those 6 words turning into an action, in my opinion, should be a crime. Some parts of society agree with me. In California, those 6 words followed by a grab are clearly a crime with the yes means yes law.



MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3078 on: April 21, 2017, 08:54:07 AM »
Okay, that's all I needed to hear. I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this conversation.

I knew this probably wasn't going anywhere the moment you said you have sex with your girlfriend without asking, but I hoped some sense could be talked into you. Good luck.
I do not rape my girlfriend, if that's what you are implying. Saying that you need verbal consent is absolutely ridiculous and not at all sexy. If my girlfriend gives me a sexy look, and then runs upstairs and lays on the bed naked, do you suggest that it could be rape unless I say, "wait a minute, sweetie, are you sure you want to do this"?

C'mon, that's not reality. And it more than a bit ridiculous.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3079 on: April 21, 2017, 08:59:14 AM »


It is possible Trump believed he did nothing wrong. It is also possible he was wrong and he committed a crime.
Okay, it's possible, but there's no evidence we've seen that says a crime was committed.

Quote
My opinion is that he knew what he was saying was not a societal norm and not for everyone's ears.
Okay, and he didn't say it for everybody to hear. He said it in private. Besides, it's not a crime to not follow norms.

Quote
I don't wait. They let me.

Those 6 words turning into an action, in my opinion, should be a crime. Some parts of society agree with me. In California, those 6 words followed by a grab are clearly a crime with the yes means yes law.
Well, what action those 6 words would turn into is ambiguous at best.

As for the law, I don't agree with it, for the very premise that "ongoing consent" is also very ambiguous. Unless you suggest that every 30 seconds or so you need to say, "STOP! Girlfriend, is it okay if we continue to have sex?"

Miskatonic

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3080 on: April 21, 2017, 09:01:52 AM »
Okay, that's all I needed to hear. I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this conversation.

I knew this probably wasn't going anywhere the moment you said you have sex with your girlfriend without asking, but I hoped some sense could be talked into you. Good luck.
I do not rape my girlfriend, if that's what you are implying. Saying that you need verbal consent is absolutely ridiculous and not at all sexy. If my girlfriend gives me a sexy look, and then runs upstairs and lays on the bed naked, do you suggest that it could be rape unless I say, "wait a minute, sweetie, are you sure you want to do this"?

C'mon, that's not reality. And it more than a bit ridiculous.

Not ridiculous at all, and if the only way you can imagine getting consent is by asking like an awkward weirdo, well....I can't improve your social skills for you.

MrMonkeyMoustache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3081 on: April 21, 2017, 09:05:34 AM »
Okay, that's all I needed to hear. I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this conversation.

I knew this probably wasn't going anywhere the moment you said you have sex with your girlfriend without asking, but I hoped some sense could be talked into you. Good luck.
I do not rape my girlfriend, if that's what you are implying. Saying that you need verbal consent is absolutely ridiculous and not at all sexy. If my girlfriend gives me a sexy look, and then runs upstairs and lays on the bed naked, do you suggest that it could be rape unless I say, "wait a minute, sweetie, are you sure you want to do this"?

C'mon, that's not reality. And it more than a bit ridiculous.

Not ridiculous at all, and if the only way you can imagine getting consent is by asking like an awkward weirdo, well....I can't improve your social skills for you.
But that's exactly what you're suggesting. Like it or not, consent CAN be given non-verbally.

If my girlfriend gives me a sexy look, tells me she has a present for me, rips her clothes off, runs upstairs, and lays naked on my bed, is that consent in your eyes? If not, I think your social skills need to be worked on far more than mine do. But, with your logic, that's not consent, and could be considered rape if she says so.

OurTown

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3082 on: April 21, 2017, 09:10:42 AM »
Jesus H. Tap-Dancing Christ.  Try to look at it from the other side.  Imagine you have a sister, or a daughter, and her boyfriend thinks he is the hottest shit in the history of mankind. You would not want that creep jumping her bones every chance he gets without her consent, would you?

Dabnasty

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3083 on: April 21, 2017, 09:14:57 AM »
I would agree that there is such a thing as non-verbal consent.

But that's not really the issue so let's stop arguing about irrelevant things. The issue is that he said he doesn't wait, and by that he is clearly implying that there is no time for consent, verbal or non-verbal. If not, why would he have followed that with "when youíre a star they let you do it. You can do anything"

Miskatonic

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3084 on: April 21, 2017, 09:16:27 AM »
Okay, that's all I needed to hear. I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this conversation.

I knew this probably wasn't going anywhere the moment you said you have sex with your girlfriend without asking, but I hoped some sense could be talked into you. Good luck.
I do not rape my girlfriend, if that's what you are implying. Saying that you need verbal consent is absolutely ridiculous and not at all sexy. If my girlfriend gives me a sexy look, and then runs upstairs and lays on the bed naked, do you suggest that it could be rape unless I say, "wait a minute, sweetie, are you sure you want to do this"?

C'mon, that's not reality. And it more than a bit ridiculous.

Not ridiculous at all, and if the only way you can imagine getting consent is by asking like an awkward weirdo, well....I can't improve your social skills for you.
But that's exactly what you're suggesting. Like it or not, consent CAN be given non-verbally.

If my girlfriend gives me a sexy look, tells me she has a present for me, rips her clothes off, runs upstairs, and lays naked on my bed, is that consent in your eyes? If not, I think your social skills need to be worked on far more than mine do. But, with your logic, that's not consent, and could be considered rape if she says so.

You're presenting this increasingly elaborate little scenario to defend the incredibly stupid statement you made upthread. It's the very definition of moving the goalposts. Instead of delving into your fantasy role play, I'll just reiterate that consent is paramount.

But let's bring this back to Trump. Your little scenario seems to imply that you don't need consent because you have an established relationship with your girlfriend. Trump said he "just kisses" women that he doesn't have an established relationship with. What gives?

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3085 on: April 21, 2017, 09:18:12 AM »
This is fascinating, and a somewhat horrifying view into the perils of ingroup identity and how powerful it is.  It is astonishing that people can hear the same conversation and take completely different things out of it so that they stay within the peer group that they identify with.  When someone really buys into a person, they are able to discount any information that may be troubling. 

Quote
Did anyone watch the tape, and think it was anything but Trump buffooning around, blowing smoke up the young guy's ass? C'mon.

That is one interpretation.  It isn't the interpretation I have.  When I heard him say it, my thoughts were that he was trying to impress Billy Bush by talking about how women were throwing himself at him, and how he could get away with a certain type of behavior because he was a wealthy celebrity.  That whole conversation curdled my stomach because it was plainly obvious that to him, women are decorations, status symbols to be flaunted so that other men would see how awesome he is for attracting a woman who looks like that.  It disgusted me.   I am a sexual assault survivor, and this is the type of thinking that allows men to take advantage of women.  He also implied that consent is irrelevant when one is rich and powerful and BRAGGED about it.  Honestly, everytime I see his face, those words run through my head.  He is a loathsome gargoyle, and I really have a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of someone who listened to that tape and still checked the box next to his name.  Especially if they have wives and daughters. 

Serious question:  Picture Barack Obama saying the EXACT SAME words.  If you can honestly tell me that you would interpret what he said in the same way, I think you are lying.  You give Trump the benefit of the doubt because your ego requires it. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 09:22:06 AM by golden1 »

Dabnasty

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3086 on: April 21, 2017, 09:26:45 AM »

FrugalToque

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3087 on: April 21, 2017, 09:36:20 AM »
Quote
Did anyone watch the tape, and think it was anything but Trump buffooning around, blowing smoke up the young guy's ass? C'mon.

That is one interpretation.  It isn't the interpretation I have.  When I heard him say it, my thoughts were that he was trying to impress Billy Bush by talking about how women were throwing himself at him, and how he could get away with a certain type of behavior because he was a wealthy celebrity.

I would amend this in only one way:  He was trying to impress Billy Bush with how much his power let him get away with.  There was not any suggestion on his part that women threw themselves at him, just that they couldn't throw themselves out of the way fast enough and that was too bad for them.

Toque.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3088 on: April 21, 2017, 09:50:40 AM »
Let's not forget that the behavior extends to underage girls, as well.
Quote
His position as the pageant's owner entitled him to that kind of access, Trump explained, seemingly aware that what he was doing made the women uncomfortable. "You know, no men are anywhere. And I'm allowed to go in because I'm the owner of the pageant. And therefore I'm inspecting it... Is everyone OK? You know, they're standing there with no clothes. And you see these incredible-looking women. And so I sort of get away with things like that," he said.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/timeline-of-trumps-creepiness-while-he-owned-miss-universe-w444634


CheapScholar

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3089 on: April 21, 2017, 09:50:46 AM »
You guys still on the Billy Bush tape?

I'm so proud of my President.  The impact of this presidency will be American jobs, manufacturing, infrastructure, and a strong economy.*  For too long we've been taken advantage of.

American exceptionalism is not a thing of the past.  We have a President who is going to make us Great Again.  And if anyone laughs when they read this, ask yourself:  did you laugh and say Trump would never (1) run (2) file his papers (3) win the nomination and (4) beat Hillary?

The guy does what he says.  I'm SO proud to be an American. 

* We are also going to knock the shit out of our enemies.  Plenty more Mother Of All Bombs will be dropped during the next 8 years.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3090 on: April 21, 2017, 09:57:13 AM »
You guys still on the Billy Bush tape?

I'm so proud of my President.  The impact of this presidency will be American jobs, manufacturing, infrastructure, and a strong economy.*  For too long we've been taken advantage of.

American exceptionalism is not a thing of the past.  We have a President who is going to make us Great Again.  And if anyone laughs when they read this, ask yourself:  did you laugh and say Trump would never (1) run (2) file his papers (3) win the nomination and (4) beat Hillary?

The guy does what he says.
I'm SO proud to be an American. 

* We are also going to knock the shit out of our enemies.  Plenty more Mother Of All Bombs will be dropped during the next 8 years.

Kind of. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/04/13/us/politics/trump-policy-reversals-quotes.html?_r=0

The things he is following through on, like defunding the EPA and science funding more generally will have a generational negative impact. His lack of acumen on world affairs would be amusing if it didn't actually affect people in our country and abroad.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3091 on: April 21, 2017, 11:15:04 AM »
One more point on the Billy Bush tape that hasn't been made in this thread yet: Trump was talking in the context of women who were at work, in roles subordinate or subsidiary to Trump's.  He wasn't talking about using his money as an attractor, he was talking about using his "star power", his position of power over them.  That makes it an abuse of power as well as sexual assault.

Now Trump's in the White House, is anyone taking bets against him abusing his power there too?  Financially, to benefit him and his family, if nothing else.
Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

ncornilsen

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3092 on: April 21, 2017, 11:43:15 AM »
Quote
He hasn't been criminally charged, so it's impossible for him to have been found guilty OR INNOCENT.

Wrap your head around that one.

Shrodengers groper?


« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 12:01:04 PM by ncornilsen »

Dabnasty

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3093 on: April 21, 2017, 12:00:21 PM »
One more point on the Billy Bush tape that hasn't been made in this thread yet: Trump was talking in the context of women who were at work, in roles subordinate or subsidiary to Trump's.  He wasn't talking about using his money as an attractor, he was talking about using his "star power", his position of power over them.  That makes it an abuse of power as well as sexual assault.

Now Trump's in the White House, is anyone taking bets against him abusing his power there too?  Financially, to benefit him and his family, if nothing else.

AND if somehow you still don't believe that tape is enough proof, how about the article posted by Glenstache above? Trump explained on the Howard Stern Show:

"His position as the pageant's owner entitled him to that kind of access, Trump explained, seemingly aware that what he was doing made the women uncomfortable. "You know, no men are anywhere. And I'm allowed to go in because I'm the owner of the pageant. And therefore I'm inspecting it... Is everyone OK? You know, they're standing there with no clothes. And you see these incredible-looking women. And so I sort of get away with things like that," he said."

Yes. Trump said. I get away with [sexual harassment].

Fish Sweet

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3094 on: April 21, 2017, 12:01:16 PM »
One more point on the Billy Bush tape that hasn't been made in this thread yet: Trump was talking in the context of women who were at work, in roles subordinate or subsidiary to Trump's.  He wasn't talking about using his money as an attractor, he was talking about using his "star power", his position of power over them.  That makes it an abuse of power as well as sexual assault.

Now Trump's in the White House, is anyone taking bets against him abusing his power there too?  Financially, to benefit him and his family, if nothing else.

I mean, no bets need to be taken.  He's already had white house endorsements of his daughter's business, despite the fact that it is SUPER DUPER ILLEGAL.

Honestly, I can't believe anyone can ignore or "get off" the Billy Bush tape.  Maybe some people are unaware, but "grabbing women by the pussy" is sexual assault.  So either our president has ENGAGED IN AND BRAGS ABOUT sexually assaulting women, or thinks that LYING AND BRAGGING about sexual assault is something to be proud of.

And people voted for him.

Hilariously enough (""""hilariously""""), at my alma mater there was in fact a man who went around for a week or two assaulting women by grabbing them by the crotch as they walked by.  To literally nobody's surprise, he was arrested, charged, and hopefully was put behind bars for some period of time as a result.  Of course, he wasn't white and he wasn't rich, so maybe that's the difference between ye standard olde pussy grabber and President Pussy Grabber here.

Lis

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3095 on: April 21, 2017, 02:54:18 PM »
Hilariously enough (""""hilariously""""), at my alma mater there was in fact a man who went around for a week or two assaulting women by grabbing them by the crotch as they walked by.  To literally nobody's surprise, he was arrested, charged, and hopefully was put behind bars for some period of time as a result.  Of course, he wasn't white and he wasn't rich, so maybe that's the difference between ye standard olde pussy grabber and President Pussy Grabber here.

Ding ding ding.

And just because it hasn't been explicitly said yet - the absence of no does not mean yes.

Let me repeat that one more time.
THE ABSENCE OF NO DOES NOT MEAN YES

Sure, you and a regular partner can have a super secret handshake that means "yes sex now please," but just get the fucking yes.

There was a male politician in CT recently who pinched a woman in his office on the crotch - literally grabbed her pussy - and said that he was thrilled Trump was president because he didn't have to be politically correct anymore. She called the police, and he said it was just a joke that got blown out of proportion. (If I remember I'll try to find the article later - "pussy grabbing" is not really something I want to search on my work computer.) Here's the thing - when you're in a position of power and people are doing bad things in your name, or because they believe you think it's okay, the appropriate thing to do is condemn them.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3096 on: April 21, 2017, 02:55:22 PM »
One more point on the Billy Bush tape that hasn't been made in this thread yet: Trump was talking in the context of women who were at work, in roles subordinate or subsidiary to Trump's.  He wasn't talking about using his money as an attractor, he was talking about using his "star power", his position of power over them.  That makes it an abuse of power as well as sexual assault.

Now Trump's in the White House, is anyone taking bets against him abusing his power there too?  Financially, to benefit him and his family, if nothing else.

I really just want to know how many interns he's fucked so far
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

swick

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #3097 on: April 21, 2017, 05:54:10 PM »
Mod Note: After many reports, much moderation, and discussion by the Mods, we feel this thread has run it's course and continues to do more damage to out community.