Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"

[StarBright]

For those of you still practicing social distancing, masking, testing, etc., how long do you propose continuing to live that way? Scientists tell us that Covid-19 is here to stay. It's not going away, ever. So, are you planning on social distancing for the rest of your lives? Really?

I'm an old lady, and I avoided crowds in flu season long before Covid came along. I plan to carry on with my life and mask indoors for the rest of my life. Really.

I'm perfectly content to take a Covid test as needed. I'd be happy if I had influenza tests in my cupboard, too.

My life *is* normal.

I've been getting annual flu shots for years.  Being retired means avoiding crowded stores is easy, been doing that for years as well.  Plus I find curb-side pickupfor groceries is more efficient than in-store shopping, so I will continue to do it as well.

When the nasal spray vaccines come out I will be in line as soon as I am eligible.

And to bring it all back to mustachianism :) - I don't know about you, but I find I spend way less when I do curbside pick up. Unlike shopping instore I can check my totals before I check out and I often find myself removing a few things. It has kept my groceries at about $100 a week for a family of 4 for the last several years.

[RetiredAt63]

For those of you still practicing social distancing, masking, testing, etc., how long do you propose continuing to live that way? Scientists tell us that Covid-19 is here to stay. It's not going away, ever. So, are you planning on social distancing for the rest of your lives? Really?

I'm an old lady, and I avoided crowds in flu season long before Covid came along. I plan to carry on with my life and mask indoors for the rest of my life. Really.

I'm perfectly content to take a Covid test as needed. I'd be happy if I had influenza tests in my cupboard, too.

My life *is* normal.

I've been getting annual flu shots for years.  Being retired means avoiding crowded stores is easy, been doing that for years as well.  Plus I find curb-side pickupfor groceries is more efficient than in-store shopping, so I will continue to do it as well.

When the nasal spray vaccines come out I will be in line as soon as I am eligible.

And to bring it all back to mustachianism :) - I don't know about you, but I find I spend way less when I do curbside pick up. Unlike shopping instore I can check my totals before I check out and I often find myself removing a few things. It has kept my groceries at about $100 a week for a family of 4 for the last several years.

I'm actually the opposite!    ;-)

I start my list, and as I think of things I add them.  It takes 2-3 days to finalise the list.  But that means I don't get home and think of 3 things I meant to get and forgot about.  Plus I can tweak as necessary.

I know there is an eating down the pantry thread in throw down the gauntlet but after being sick for 3 weeks twice this fall/winter, I really like having enough groceries to see me through  a few weeks.  Plus so far it has been a mild winter, but I am fully prepared to hole up here for a week of bad weather if necessary.

[farmecologist]

I'm seeing a lot of posts about young kids here.  And you know, I never really thought too hard about that because our kids are "grown" ( in college now ).  Our son had to do his first year of college from home though...which wasn't optimal.  However, he did well and is thriving now that he is on campus ( he is a Junior this year ).  Our daughter graduated college during covid and then worked a year...and is now in grad school.   She is doing great as well.  If anything, the bonds she made with her small group of friends she lived with during the pandemic are very strong..and they will likely be lifelong friends.

One takeway for me is that it would have been really, really, tough getting through this with young kids...especially young kids that are developing emotionally, etc...  Thanks for the discussion!


 

[BeanCounter]

I'm seeing a lot of posts about young kids here.  And you know, I never really thought too hard about that because our kids are "grown" ( in college now ).  Our son had to do his first year of college from home though...which wasn't optimal.  However, he did well and is thriving now that he is on campus ( he is a Junior this year ).  Our daughter graduated college during covid and then worked a year...and is now in grad school.   She is doing great as well.  If anything, the bonds she made with her small group of friends she lived with during the pandemic are very strong..and they will likely be lifelong friends.

One takeway for me is that it would have been really, really, tough getting through this with young kids...especially young kids that are developing emotionally, etc...  Thanks for the discussion!

Thank you for acknowledging how hard this pandemic has been on parents. It’s made for some really difficult decisions and the fatigue from all of that is real!

[Captain FIRE]

I'm seeing a lot of posts about young kids here.  And you know, I never really thought too hard about that because our kids are "grown" ( in college now ).  Our son had to do his first year of college from home though...which wasn't optimal.  However, he did well and is thriving now that he is on campus ( he is a Junior this year ).  Our daughter graduated college during covid and then worked a year...and is now in grad school.   She is doing great as well.  If anything, the bonds she made with her small group of friends she lived with during the pandemic are very strong..and they will likely be lifelong friends.

One takeway for me is that it would have been really, really, tough getting through this with young kids...especially young kids that are developing emotionally, etc...  Thanks for the discussion!

Thank you for acknowledging how hard this pandemic has been on parents. It’s made for some really difficult decisions and the fatigue from all of that is real!

Yes, agreed.  Even here, it's frustrating how little people recognize the challenges of kids.  For example this post was extremely triggering for me:

Personally, I think the whole social distancing thing has been REALLY bad for our country and for humans in general. Wearing masks and isolating ourselves was totally necessary at the beginning of the pandemic, up until effective vaccines were developed and distributed to everyone who wanted them, by around the summer of 2021.

Yes, summer of 2021 adults and older kids could get vaccines, but my oldest wasn't eligible to be vaccinated until the end of winter 2022 when he turned 5, and my daughter wasn't fully vaccinated until the end of October as the under 5 vaccine didn't come out until the end of the summer. Moreover, as an under 2, she didn't even have the option of masking up to protect herself at places like daycare because it's unsafe and therefore prohibited. (An oft suggested solution by those advocating for "personal responsibility".) People are advocating for policy changes based off their experience, and completely don't even register how things have been for our youngest and most vulnerable. I didn't respond to Shane's comment immediately because I was so frustrated I was not able to put together a rationale post.

Right now, there's COVID in my daughter's classroom. She's still in a 15 mo - 2 yr 9 mo cohort, and daycare in it's infinite wisdom decided that the under 2 (who can't mask) can come to daycare after an exposure without testing until day 6. So last week there was a case, and this week there's another case due to this asinine approach. A kid can't can't mask after exposure? Test daily or they can't come until the infectious period is over. The student testing positive may not have been patient zero, so *at the very least* require an immediate test and a test day 6. (When she was under 2, we were required to keep her out, so we've been through this pain.) The school was shut down this week due too many staff sick with COVID & the stomach bug, but I doubt they'll realize they could have easily avoided it with a few modest precautions.

[StashingAway]

I'm seeing a lot of posts about young kids here.  And you know, I never really thought too hard about that because our kids are "grown" ( in college now ).  Our son had to do his first year of college from home though...which wasn't optimal.  However, he did well and is thriving now that he is on campus ( he is a Junior this year ).  Our daughter graduated college during covid and then worked a year...and is now in grad school.   She is doing great as well.  If anything, the bonds she made with her small group of friends she lived with during the pandemic are very strong..and they will likely be lifelong friends.

One takeway for me is that it would have been really, really, tough getting through this with young kids...especially young kids that are developing emotionally, etc...  Thanks for the discussion!

Thank you for acknowledging how hard this pandemic has been on parents. It’s made for some really difficult decisions and the fatigue from all of that is real!

We had our first born November before the pandemic started. In many ways we were lucky because by the time she started daycare there were established routines rather than the chaos that schools went through in 2020. And while there were many, many people in worse situations than us, it hit our family very hard psychologically. My wife and I's relationship is still recovering, as we had an incredibly fussy baby (acid reflux, think worse than collic from 2 months to 8 months). We would have benefitted greatly from being able to take her in public more, having meetups with other parents, being able to socialize ourselves... there isn't much that we could have done differently other than having a better social circle before the pandemic started, but we had just moved to a new state so that was difficult to do.

We didn't lose our jobs and we still have a house over our head, but it really highlighted in a personal way how we need social engagement and that there is a difficult to measure cost of isolation when comparing to the lives saved. My heart goes out to those who must continue to be wary of any social interaction due to being immuno compromised or just general fear/panic.

[SotI]

Seems business-wise, we are back to normal. Our execs expect us to be physically back in the office half of the week at minimum. And business travel and large scale events are happening at increasing rates. I don't think I had Covid yet, but then DH and I tend to naturally avoid crowds. Ofc it may have passed us asymptomatically.

Just got back from a large scale1.5 weeks super-spreader corporate get-together. A very few ppl were masked up (me neither, though I tested daily, negative). If I didn't pick anything up there, I guess it's really "back to normal" here.

Mind you, I have done my best to boost my immune-system and to minimize the attachment points for SARS-Cov-2 keeping my vit D and Zinc levels up and my weight down to ideal level, working on optimizing my metabolic health, for whatever that will be worth this year.

[GuitarStv]

Mind you, I have done my best to boost my immune-system and to minimize the attachment points for SARS-Cov-2 keeping my vit D and Zinc levels up and my weight down to ideal level, working on optimizing my metabolic health, for whatever that will be worth this year.

Doing all that amounted to nothing of benefit for us, but best of luck to you.  :P

[RetiredAt63]

Mind you, I have done my best to boost my immune-system and to minimize the attachment points for SARS-Cov-2 keeping my vit D and Zinc levels up and my weight down to ideal level, working on optimizing my metabolic health, for whatever that will be worth this year.

Doing all that amounted to nothing of benefit for us, but best of luck to you.  :P

Well if he stays truly healthy (not just asymptomatic) he won't be passing it on.

But I can't help remembering the Freedum Rally in Ottawa last February - the participants looked healthy but they were a bunch of anti-vax protesters.  Our waste-water Covid levels went up every weekend while it was happening, so it was pretty obvious there were Covid-positive people coming into Ottawa for the weekends.

[wenchsenior]

Mind you, I have done my best to boost my immune-system and to minimize the attachment points for SARS-Cov-2 keeping my vit D and Zinc levels up and my weight down to ideal level, working on optimizing my metabolic health, for whatever that will be worth this year.

Doing all that amounted to nothing of benefit for us, but best of luck to you.  :P

Heh.

Same.

Should have stopped eating well/working out years ago...instead of continuing to do it like a sucka. #sarcasm

[ATtiny85]

Mind you, I have done my best to boost my immune-system and to minimize the attachment points for SARS-Cov-2 keeping my vit D and Zinc levels up and my weight down to ideal level, working on optimizing my metabolic health, for whatever that will be worth this year.

Wait, what? You took accountability for something in your control that benefits you and you worked to improve your risk profile? That won’t be well received here, but I appreciate it.

[wenchsenior]

Mind you, I have done my best to boost my immune-system and to minimize the attachment points for SARS-Cov-2 keeping my vit D and Zinc levels up and my weight down to ideal level, working on optimizing my metabolic health, for whatever that will be worth this year.

Wait, what? You took accountability for something in your control that benefits you and you worked to improve your risk profile? That won’t be well received here, but I appreciate it.

What a silly comment. Why would this not be well received here? There's plenty of us very invested in healthy diet and regular exercise here.

[Abe]

got COVID for the first time about 4 weeks ago, still slowly recovering. Mostly asthma exacerbations and fatigue. I also get this weird congestion in all my sinuses in the afternoons. It's been rough, even with vaccines + booster. Can't imagine what it'd be like for unvaccinated people with asthma.

[GuitarStv]

Mind you, I have done my best to boost my immune-system and to minimize the attachment points for SARS-Cov-2 keeping my vit D and Zinc levels up and my weight down to ideal level, working on optimizing my metabolic health, for whatever that will be worth this year.

Doing all that amounted to nothing of benefit for us, but best of luck to you.  :P

Heh.

Same.

Should have stopped eating well/working out years ago...instead of continuing to do it like a sucka. #sarcasm

We have always aimed to live a healthy life over here too - there are many clear benefits to doing so . . . I meant 'nothing of benefit' as far as avoiding catching and passing on covid.

[RetiredAt63]

Mind you, I have done my best to boost my immune-system and to minimize the attachment points for SARS-Cov-2 keeping my vit D and Zinc levels up and my weight down to ideal level, working on optimizing my metabolic health, for whatever that will be worth this year.

Doing all that amounted to nothing of benefit for us, but best of luck to you.  :P

Heh.

Same.

Should have stopped eating well/working out years ago...instead of continuing to do it like a sucka. #sarcasm

We have always aimed to live a healthy life over here too - there are many clear benefits to doing so . . . I meant 'nothing of benefit' as far as avoiding catching and passing on covid.

In a way the most dangerous people all through this pandemic have been those who have Covid with no symptoms - they don't feel sick, they don't test because they don't feel sick, and so they go out and about.  But they are still carriers.  Some will eventually show symptoms and quarantine, some will never have symptoms. 

But they are still carrying and spreading the virus.  This is why wearing a mask (preferably N95 but a good surgical mask is still helpful) helps.  Since these days most people are not wearing masks, those of us who are particularly vulnerable are stuck wearing a mask. 

Typhoid Mary was asymptomatic, and look how many people she gave typhoid to.

[PeteD01]

It continues to be a difficult situation with no good practical solution (not yet peer reviewed but provides a good outline of the issues at hand):

Shielding under endemic SARS-CoV-2 conditions is easier said than done: a model-based analysis

2023.01.22

This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.


In the absence of concerted public health actions to provide options for individuals looking to reduce their risk of infection, shielding as a personal responsibility is challenging to achieve. Public health organizations have advocated for oxymoronic “individual public health measures”, but these represent an inadequate solution to the ongoing COVID-19 public health crisis. Permitting the unrestrained spread of SARS-CoV-2 in the population will inflict a heavy burden of infection and long COVID on society as a whole, which will be challenging if not impossible for individuals to opt out of in the long run.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.22.23284884v1.full


And here is an old post in which I tried to summarize the situation when we were about to "transition into the endemic phase" of Covid - just to provide some context:

What we are seeing right now is actually the beginning of the transition from pandemia to endemicity.
Looking at endemicity from the point of view of tolerance of a certain amount of death and suffering on the part of the general population leads directly to the perception of the severity of the threat.
With the perception of of severity of the disease decreasing, measures of risk mitigation will meet less and less acceptance. This puts vulnerable people at increasing risk. We are currently at the cusp of having highly active therapeutics generally available and these medications allow us to quickly develop strategies to avert serious infections in the immunocompromised. We will likely be able to protect the immunocompromised from serious disease in the near future, removing this large number of patients from the high risk pool leaving it comprised almost exclusively of the unvaccinated.

Ironically, the general population is about to adopt a view of Covid similar to views common on the Covid denier/no-vax side from the very beginning of the pandemic.
I cannot stress enough that the decreasing perception of illness severity on the part of the general population is in lockstep with the acceptance of bad outcomes in an identifiable subgroup, i.e. Covid deniers and the unvaxxed, effectively marginalizing them in the pursuit of return to normality.
Politically and ethically, an administration cannot simply abandon efforts to reach the vulnerable subgroup, no matter how unsympathetic the members of the group are and how ready the general population is to leave them to their own devices. Of course, extremist and populist goverments would not have a problem with that because such governments are always on the lookout for subgroups to ostracize and hurt.

And that is why I hold two apparently contradictory positions:

1. getting the vaccine is a personal choice but not getting it may require acceptance of some inconveniences in daily life

2. vaccine mandates are necessary while knowing that universal compliance is impossible to achieve.

I am certain that the current administration knows perfectly well that the bogging down of mandates in the legal system was unavoidable and that they were actually to be expected. It is also very clear that the federal mandates are achieving what could reasonably be expected to be achieved by simply starting the debate about "mandates". It is a simple case of advancing your goals just by having a debate without any expectation to win the debate.
The debate about mandates has been going on for many weeks and will keep going and here is an incomplete list of what the "mandates" are accomplishing.


The introduction of federal workforce vaccine requirements and the ongoing debate about vaccine "mandates":

1) is giving cover to employers to introduce their own requirements and inconveniences

2) is giving cover to unvaxxed individuals who may be under social pressures to not getting vaccinated or who have spouted antivaxx sentiments before and now have an excuse to get vaccinated while saving face
 
3) is leading to vaccinations in countless people who do not have strong opinions about vaccinations, i.e. fence sitters and procrastinators etc, and have not received them for a variety of reasons but needed a nudge

4) will be giving cover to the government against any accusations that they did not do everything in their power to reach high risk populations, and this is independent of the extent to which the courts and state legislatures allow the efforts to proceed.

Now about number 4. The administration is under pressure to demonstrate that it did everything possible to mitigate the pandemic impact on vulnerable and disadvantaged populations and everything possible is, in a liberal democracy, what is allowed under the law and the constitution and the courts are the place where the limits of executive power are established. I would be the first to accuse the government of abandonment if they did not test the limits in the federal court system. Obviously, after all efforts regarding mandates have been exhausted and nothing more can be done, the stage is set for abandonment of the remaining vaccine resistant populations to their own devices and alignment with the general public sentiment which is trending strongly towards perception of Covid as not much worse than the flu; which happens to be close to the truth for fully immunized people.
Luckily, the majority of the unvaxxed appear to ingest anything whatsoever once they feel sick, giving the administration another opening in trying to contain the catastrophe among the unvaxxed with the new antiviral drugs.

Now about the apparently decreased severity of Covid caused by Omicron. This discussion is marked by confusion and it might be time to clarify a few things.
In a certain sense this discussion is about the virulence of the coronavirus as manifested in its different variants. The problem here is that virulence is not a straightforward concept and, without a bit of background knowledge, the public discourse fails to make sense.

First we have to acknowledge that there are different meanings of the term
virulence depending on who uses the term (or a synonymous term) under which circumstances and with which intent. The reason why virulence is not a straightforward concept is because in its original meaning the virulence of a pathogen is simply a measure of the ability of a pathogen to cause disease or death. In a contolled laboratory environment in which virulence ist measured by the effect of a pathogen on a standardized host organism and the change of those effects in response to alterations of pathogen. If a particular feature of a pathogen results in a differential effect on virulence based on the absence or presence of said feature (for example absence or presence of a capsule in some bacteriae renders them either harmless or  dangerous), the feature is then called a virulence factor.
In the laboratory with a standardized host organism, virulence thus appears solely determined by the pathogen. This is untrue in the real world where cases of infection are drawn from non-standardized populations and where the definition of virulence, number of cases / number of disease and death, reasserts itself as showing the virulence in the real world is just as dependent on the population from which the cases are drawn as on the pathogen itself.

The closest the public discourse comes to the scientific meaning of virulence is this:

1. the effect of a new variant on severity and frequency of severe disese and death in the unvaccinated population. This is the closest to the lab setting as the unvaxxed population is somewhat standardized because it has never encountered the pathogen. Unfortunately, at this point there is no good way to remove the never infected from the other unvaccinated in the equation, making it very difficult to arrive at an accurate estimate. The presence of some previously infected will cause underestimation of virulence to an unknown degree. This is why there is such a delay in determining if Omicron is less dangerous than other variants - the error lies in the same direction and on top of it, everybodey wants to hear that it is less dangerous.


The second way the term virulence, or equivalent, is used I would call apparent virulence, and this apparent virulence is of great importance for policy decisions:

2. Apparent virulence is simply the number of all cases in a geographic area divided by the number of cases of severe disease and death. Apparent virulence is the most important measure going into health care resource management assessments.
Apparent virulence is a measure of the impact of the pathogen on health care resources in a particular area and depends not only on the actual virulence (1., above) of the pathogen but also on the immune status of the population.
Apparent virulence therefore does not tell us much about the pathogen when the immune status of the population is not well known, but is of immense practical value for medical resource management.


The third meaning in which the term virulence or equivalent is used I would call perceived virulence:

3. Perceived virulence is the most politically charged and arguably the most important sense in which comparative disease severity of the Omicron variant is discussed. Perceived virulence (or threat perception) is what was manipulated from day one of the pandemic by political actors and is still the focus of political activity.
Covid denial, for example, is just the extreme to which downplaying disease severity (virulence) can be pushed. The extent to which the perceived virulence of the coronavirus has been successfully lowered by political actors and their multiplicators (mostly on the right) in susceptible populations can be seen in the surprise many unvaxxed Covid victims show when they get really sick and end up dying from a disease they were convinced to be largely a hoax.
Perceived virulence is now decreasing rapidly among the vaccinated as the conviction that those who are still unvaxxed cannot be reached (which is technically certainly untrue but practically likely true). The administration is actively working on all levels to support that notion and faces no resistance whatsoever as downplaying Covid is what the unvaxxed are doing all day long and the rest of the population is ready to join the unvaxxed in that stance.
Unfortunately, for the unvaxxed, the Omicron variant so far appears to be less virulent than Delta but of similar virulence as the original virus. Two years ago, the world shut down for a virus with that virulence but today we call it a mild form. This cannot be explained by anything but the lowered perceived virulence and actual apparent virulence in the vaccinated population. In other words, the unvaccinated are on their own and we can be assured that everything possibe up to "mandates" was done to help them.
Of course, this is not good news for health care resources stretched to the limit and it is not the end of what the current administration has on their plate.
The fact that majority opinion is aligning with opinions on the unvaxxed side now also means that the issues with downplaying the pandemic on the basis of ones own risk for a bad outcome are now appearing everywhere. And that is because perceived virulence is ultimately an assessment of ones own risk of a bad outcome  plus a common good consideration that is now excluding the still unvaxxed.
The readiness of the general public to leave the unvaxxed in the dust and the capability of societies to tolerate mass casualties should not be underestimated. Just think how easily we tolerate tens of thousands of traffic deaths and injuries per year for te sake of transportation. We would never tolerate a death toll like that if microwave ovens were zapping us on a regular basis in exchange for some hot beferage. But a couple of hundred thousand deaths a year from Covid in the hinterlands in exchange for return to normality while not being in much danger oneself would be tolerated quite well - especially as the unvaxxed are willing to collaborate in their own deception. As long as the stakes are appropriate, an enormous number of deaths and much misery will be tolerated.
A decrease of perceived virulence of a pathogen in the general population is also the best marker for te transitioning of a pandemic to the endemic state as it is an attitude adjustment based on a risk benefit assessment. I find it fascinating to observe this in real time.


There are many moving parts but the general direction appears clearer by the day. It is obvious that we are moving toward a situation where a susceptible population that is disadvantaged for social reasons suffers the brunt of a disease transitioning to the endemic phase for the rest of the population. The fact that the behavior of this risk group does not make them sympathetic should not distract from the duty of government and other entities to find ways to mitigate the effects of the disease. Some interventions will also help decompress the health care systems such as large scale programs for preemptive antiviral treatments etc. as well as travelling health care resources to absorb local spikes and need to be vigorously pursued. I personally find it encouraging that the unvaxxed appear to be ready to swallow anything as soon as they get a sore throat - so the antiviral strategies have a chance to work.

All that said, another variant can change things but at this point I consider it likely that Omicron will result in a different immunologic situation on a society level than before, thus heralding a new phase in the coronavirus saga.

I posted the above about four weeks ago and things have been moving rapidly.

There was a White House meeting with the state governors where there was broad bipartisan agreement to "move away from the pandemic mindset", to paraphrase the general mood at the meeting. The president did still emphasize that there is a lot more work to be done to deal with regional hot spots etc. - but that is his job to say that.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/31/politics/governors-pandemic-biden/index.html


Anecdotally, I have been informed that tertiary care centers in at least one of the largest metropolitan regions have begun to perform major elective surgeries which require reservations of ICU beds. These beds are not available for transfers of Covid patients from other facilities.
I have also been informed that Covid patients in refractory respiratory failure are now routinely declared not to be candidates for ECMO (In my opinion, this policy change was overdue as only very few benefit from ECMO support). The restriction of ECMO to more appropriate candidates will decrease overall suffering and will absolutely decrease the number of transfers in, thus relieving some of the burden. These things do not happen unless there is broad political and public support in favor of them.
And as this is the USA, there certainly is great tolerance for restricted access to medical care to identifiable subgroups in society, particularly among conservatives. Ironically, this time the affected tend to be conservative rural residents who are facing the greatest health crisis in modern times all the while access to advanced medical care is becoming more difficult for them.   


And finally, here is an article from The Atlantic explaining in more detail how to look at and think about "endemicity".

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/02/endemicity-means-nothing/621423/


Of course, the big question is when one should stop mask wearing and other precautions.
For me, the answer is that I will continue wearing a mask and will not change any other precautions I routinely take until protocols and antivirals are available to treat the immunocompromised and other high risk individuals preemptively upon exposure or early in the course of the disease.

[accolay]

I can't sleep and here I am. Must be them 5G signals.

To answer the OP question:
My new normal involves wearing a mask when I'm out, when shopping, through airports, at a number of concerts. Besides wearing at work, I'm actually wearing the mask now a days because I'm wary of catching something else, not covid. I haven't been sick since before covid. My immune system has a debt to pay, but I really like not being sick.

For the rest of society, there is no getting back. We will live in the new normal with the certain percentage of people that covid showed had no fucking chill. Who needs social contract when it's the apocalypse, amirite?

[Daley]

Who needs social contract when it's the apocalypse, amirite?

You know, the wife and I had a theory on that at one point. We'd suspected that the doomsday preppers were both super scared and super disappointed in finally having their day in the sun, so to speak, after years of hoarding and stockpiling... and a world shaking virus comes along, and no amount of bullets or dehydrated beef stroganoff or violence to beat back the hoards coming for you was gonna save your ass and preserve your life. Instead, the weapons of effectiveness were ordinary masks and compassion. The two things that their stockpiles were critically short of. The impudent rage of finding out how you spent years and countless dollars preparing for something only to have all that stuff be pointless had to go somewhere, though... and here we are.

[nereo]

Who needs social contract when it's the apocalypse, amirite?

You know, the wife and I had a theory on that at one point. We'd suspected that the doomsday preppers were both super scared and super disappointed in finally having their day in the sun, so to speak, after years of hoarding and stockpiling... and a world shaking virus comes along, and no amount of bullets or dehydrated beef stroganoff or violence to beat back the hoards coming for you was gonna save your ass and preserve your life. Instead, the weapons of effectiveness were ordinary masks and compassion. The two things that their stockpiles were critically short of. The impudent rage of finding out how you spent years and countless dollars preparing for something only to have all that stuff be pointless had to go somewhere, though... and here we are.

So glad you posted this thought...
A former roommate of mine had started down the prepper rabbit-hole, and had made friends with some serious hard-core, off-the-grid types. Over backyard cookouts they were constantly talking about how the latest geopolitical event could be THE ONE and then seemed genuinely irked when society didn't collapse. I have "home-steading tendencies" myself, but I draw the line at actively rooting for societal collapse (particularly the hope seems based on wanting to be 'right' and become some sort of king-among-the-damned).  I listened to their bitter disappointment when the economy quickly rallied after 2008 (all the while hearing "but all this imaginary money is going to utterly destroy the financial system as we know it!!") and then again when the turmoil around DJT *didn't* ultimately cause some sort of vaguely defined armageddon.

There was a ton of self-congratulatory chatter during the early months of the pandemic. But then people learned to live with supply chain disruptions and their prepper lives really were no different. And exactly as you said @Daley the most important assets were things they couldn't squirrel away in six-month supplies, but stuff like stepping back a few feet and working from the kitchen table instead of the office. At least this time having a homemade water filtration rig really didn't add any tangible benefits, but having a strong social network did.

[Kris]

Who needs social contract when it's the apocalypse, amirite?

You know, the wife and I had a theory on that at one point. We'd suspected that the doomsday preppers were both super scared and super disappointed in finally having their day in the sun, so to speak, after years of hoarding and stockpiling... and a world shaking virus comes along, and no amount of bullets or dehydrated beef stroganoff or violence to beat back the hoards coming for you was gonna save your ass and preserve your life. Instead, the weapons of effectiveness were ordinary masks and compassion. The two things that their stockpiles were critically short of. The impudent rage of finding out how you spent years and countless dollars preparing for something only to have all that stuff be pointless had to go somewhere, though... and here we are.

This makes sense. As does the reaction of needing to deny the effectiveness of those things (masks and lack of selfishness) AND call the people who use them "sheeple."

[RetiredAt63]

The thing is, we are a social species.  Historically people didn't pioneer by themselves, they did it as a group, because there is strength and support in a group.

So it makes sense that what helps get us through bad times is our social network.

[partgypsy]

Who needs social contract when it's the apocalypse, amirite?

You know, the wife and I had a theory on that at one point. We'd suspected that the doomsday preppers were both super scared and super disappointed in finally having their day in the sun, so to speak, after years of hoarding and stockpiling... and a world shaking virus comes along, and no amount of bullets or dehydrated beef stroganoff or violence to beat back the hoards coming for you was gonna save your ass and preserve your life. Instead, the weapons of effectiveness were ordinary masks and compassion. The two things that their stockpiles were critically short of. The impudent rage of finding out how you spent years and countless dollars preparing for something only to have all that stuff be pointless had to go somewhere, though... and here we are.

This makes sense. As does the reaction of needing to deny the effectiveness of those things (masks and lack of selfishness) AND call the people who use them "sheeple."

but- they had toliet paper..
What is funny my lil brother could have become one of those preppers. Hes always been interested in survivalist type stuff. And when the virus came out, other than the first 2 months, he had to go back to work. I don't think I have a photo but he create a face mask thing using kn95 masks he had for environmental exposures, added goggles, etc it looked like ridiculous overkill. Then again he was working in people's homes and also with construction workers who were notorious for not masking or distancing, and he didn't get it. Until this December, when all the mask mandates were over. He says in retrospect he wish he continued to wear the masks. Anyways my lil brother did have tp, and appropriate masks early on. Basically he would be a good person to be with during a zombie apocalypse.

[farmecologist]

Coworker just came down with Covid...Of course, this is only a few weeks after we decided to come into the office two days a week.   Sigh...

[Gronnie]

I just had strep throat. It was 10x worse than either time I had Covid.

[Kris]

I just had strep throat. It was 10x worse than either time I had Covid.

Yes. Strep throat is also a thing that can be bad.

[SunnyDays]

I just had strep throat. It was 10x worse than either time I had Covid.

Yes. Strep throat is also a thing that can be bad.

Apparently Strep A is making the rounds now.

I'm still wearing a mask, even though 99% of people here aren't.  At least, I've never gotten a rude look or comment because of it.

My 83 year old, unvaccinated aunt is now in hospital with Covid, and it's not looking good.  She's unvaccinated due to severe mobility issues that make going to a doctor really challenging; otherwise, she's pretty healthy.  Or was.

[economista]

My family just got covid for the first time. I've been back in the office for a year now and older child started preschool in September, so I'm surprised it took this long. Younger child was the only one in the family that didn't test positive for covid and there was no way we could isolate from her since she is 2. She got a scary rash and after weighing the pros and cons of taking her to urgent care while still symptomatic for covid myself I took her in the 2nd day when it spread. Turns out she has strep (actually scarlet fever since there is a rash), so it is a very good thing that I took her in. I have no idea how she got it, since none of us had left the house for a week!

[Freedomin5]

We don’t even test for COVID anymore here, unless you’re getting on a flight to China. It’s belong treated like any other cold or flu. But then again, here, most people head to the hospital for an IV drip at the first sign of fever, so I’m sure people will get the treatment they need if the symptoms are severe enough to warrant hospitalization.

[jinga nation]

I don't wear a mask, except when flying. The last thing I want is to get sick from COVID-19, flu, RSV, or some airborne miscreant, and ruin all or part of my vacation, or getting back to work on the return flight.
The pandemic made me realize I can't trust people, can't take their word, not even my family. Trust but verify. If cannot verify, protect yourself in a reasonable manner.
I don't get into crowd situations anymore. No more very close conversations, keep a couple of feet distance. So no need to wear a mask with behavior changes.
Plus I love the free 5G for life. Simply amazing. Wearing a tinfoil hat keeps the signals internal to prevent snooping and reading my FIRE-ing thoughts.

[sailinlight]

I don't wear a mask, except when flying. The last thing I want is to get sick from COVID-19, flu, RSV, or some airborne miscreant, and ruin all or part of my vacation, or getting back to work on the return flight.
The pandemic made me realize I can't trust people, can't take their word, not even my family. Trust but verify. If cannot verify, protect yourself in a reasonable manner.
I don't get into crowd situations anymore. No more very close conversations, keep a couple of feet distance. So no need to wear a mask with behavior changes.
Plus I love the free 5G for life. Simply amazing. Wearing a tinfoil hat keeps the signals internal to prevent snooping and reading my FIRE-ing thoughts.

Hope you had a good party that you decided to post from your inebriated state!!!

[JoJo]

Been visiting family in the hospital this week in the midwest, I would say 1% of visitors and staff are wearing masks. 

[Zikoris]

With international travel (mostly) open to the unvaccinated again, I'd say we're completely back to normal now. I hardly see masks at all around Vancouver these days. I like that people seem to be better about respecting personal space than pre-pandemic, and that's the one thing I really hope sticks around long-term.

[Gronnie]

One thing I do like is that it seems that for the most part people stay home now when they are sick. I notice a helluva lot less coughing by obviously sick people in public.

[farmecologist]

One thing I do like is that it seems that for the most part people stay home now when they are sick. I notice a helluva lot less coughing by obviously sick people in public.

I have very few pet peeves...but sick people at work pisses me the heck off! Especially in office environments where people can easily work from home if they need to. 

Luckily, as you said, people seem to be a *little* bit more responsible about it now.

[GuitarStv]

One thing I do like is that it seems that for the most part people stay home now when they are sick. I notice a helluva lot less coughing by obviously sick people in public.

I have very few pet peeves...but sick people at work pisses me the heck off! Especially in office environments where people can easily work from home if they need to. 

Luckily, as you said, people seem to be a *little* bit more responsible about it now.

This peeve should be directed at the workplace though, not the individual.  If it's understood that sick people stay home, then they tend to do so.  If it's understood that you get your ass into the office regardless of sickness then they tend to do it.

I've worked in both types of places.  :P

[farmecologist]

One thing I do like is that it seems that for the most part people stay home now when they are sick. I notice a helluva lot less coughing by obviously sick people in public.

I have very few pet peeves...but sick people at work pisses me the heck off! Especially in office environments where people can easily work from home if they need to. 

Luckily, as you said, people seem to be a *little* bit more responsible about it now.

This peeve should be directed at the workplace though, not the individual.  If it's understood that sick people stay home, then they tend to do so.  If it's understood that you get your ass into the office regardless of sickness then they tend to do it.

I've worked in both types of places.  :P

Point taken.  However, in my place of work one can easily work from home...any day of the week.   And yes, it has been directed at the individual...haha.

Another thing that irks me to no end is companies that have PTO style time off.  In other words, you have to use PTO for ANY time off at all...sick days, holidays, vacation days, etc...  And PTO is rampant in medical instructions.   Uhh...seems like that encourages folks to come to work sick, doesn't it?   




 

[Cranky]

I just had strep throat. It was 10x worse than either time I had Covid.

Dd just had strep throat, too, and it included a nasty infected looking rash. Her doctor says that having Covid twice last year has depressed her immune system, even though both cases were fairly mild.

She has since had salmonella, influenza A, RSV, many colds, and now the strep.

Meanwhile, I continue living my life but wearing a mask, and I will sign up for another booster next week.

[startingsmall]

One thing I do like is that it seems that for the most part people stay home now when they are sick. I notice a helluva lot less coughing by obviously sick people in public.

I have very few pet peeves...but sick people at work pisses me the heck off! Especially in office environments where people can easily work from home if they need to. 

Luckily, as you said, people seem to be a *little* bit more responsible about it now.

This peeve should be directed at the workplace though, not the individual.  If it's understood that sick people stay home, then they tend to do so.  If it's understood that you get your ass into the office regardless of sickness then they tend to do it.

I've worked in both types of places.  :P

Agreed. I've had two separate experiences of trying to call into work with a fever of 101-102 F and been told (by two separate employers) that I was required to come in anyway and doing otherwise would result in disciplinary action. This is highly employer-dependent.

[Samuel]

With international travel (mostly) open to the unvaccinated again, I'd say we're completely back to normal now. I hardly see masks at all around Vancouver these days. I like that people seem to be better about respecting personal space than pre-pandemic, and that's the one thing I really hope sticks around long-term.

Seems like a pretty good marker for full normalcy to me. The US finally joins that club on May 11.

I just returned from my first international vacation post Covid and masks were very few and far between. It was actually a little odd returning to Seattle and seeing a higher percentage of people wearing masks in the grocery store than were wearing them in any of the airports, airplanes, trains, packed metro cars, or packed tapas bars I had just spent 11 days in. Apparently there are a lot of holdouts around here...

[By the River]

I went to Costco last night and they have removed all plexiglass screens around the registers.  It was somewhat interesting as I assumed the screens would always be there.

(I think costco's screens were noticeably absent due to the lack of all the candy/chips/magazines/junk that other stores pile around their register lines.)   

[HPstache]

The last mask requirement in my town was lifted by a small shop that hung on to masking requirements in their store... they even stopped wearing them.  It's officially back to normal.  I wonder what it was that cause them to change their minds after holding out so long?  Genuinely curious... was there something in the news that I missed?

[Michael in ABQ]

The last mask requirement in my town was lifted by a small shop that hung on to masking requirements in their store... they even stopped wearing them.  It's officially back to normal.  I wonder what it was that made them finally change their minds?

My wife and I recently visited Portland, OR and there was a small local bakery that still had a mask requirement. However, only from 7-10 AM. Apparently COVID is no longer infectious after 10 AM.

[Villanelle]

The last mask requirement in my town was lifted by a small shop that hung on to masking requirements in their store... they even stopped wearing them.  It's officially back to normal.  I wonder what it was that made them finally change their minds?

My wife and I recently visited Portland, OR and there was a small local bakery that still had a mask requirement. However, only from 7-10 AM. Apparently COVID is no longer infectious after 10 AM.

Or maybe that's when they are most crowded, or when they have an immuno-compromised worker. 

[Cranky]

The last mask requirement in my town was lifted by a small shop that hung on to masking requirements in their store... they even stopped wearing them.  It's officially back to normal.  I wonder what it was that made them finally change their minds?

My wife and I recently visited Portland, OR and there was a small local bakery that still had a mask requirement. However, only from 7-10 AM. Apparently COVID is no longer infectious after 10 AM.

Or maybe that's when they are most crowded, or when they have an immuno-compromised worker.

I see many more masks first thing in the morning and I assume that us old people shop early! I do see plenty of store employees still wearing them.

It was strange last month when the air was so bad and people wore masks outside and took them off indoors.

[HPstache]

The last mask requirement in my town was lifted by a small shop that hung on to masking requirements in their store... they even stopped wearing them.  It's officially back to normal.  I wonder what it was that made them finally change their minds?

My wife and I recently visited Portland, OR and there was a small local bakery that still had a mask requirement. However, only from 7-10 AM. Apparently COVID is no longer infectious after 10 AM.

Or maybe that's when they are most crowded, or when they have an immuno-compromised worker.

I considered that, it was what I assumed all along, but there is only two of them and they are both now mask-less.  My working theory is maybe they did have a health concern but both got Covid at some point and found out that it did not affect them in a concerning way.  It was very strange because I did not start going to this store until Covid so this was my first time seeing either of their faces.

[Villanelle]

The last mask requirement in my town was lifted by a small shop that hung on to masking requirements in their store... they even stopped wearing them.  It's officially back to normal.  I wonder what it was that made them finally change their minds?

My wife and I recently visited Portland, OR and there was a small local bakery that still had a mask requirement. However, only from 7-10 AM. Apparently COVID is no longer infectious after 10 AM.

Or maybe that's when they are most crowded, or when they have an immuno-compromised worker.

I considered that, it was what I assumed all along, but there is only two of them and they are both now mask-less.  My working theory is maybe they did have a health concern but both got Covid at some point and found out that it did not affect them in a concerning way.  It was very strange because I did not start going to this store until Covid so this was my first time seeing either of their faces.

I was referring to Michael's post about the store with masks from 7-10, and his glib comment that Covid doesn't spread after 10.

[HPstache]

The last mask requirement in my town was lifted by a small shop that hung on to masking requirements in their store... they even stopped wearing them.  It's officially back to normal.  I wonder what it was that made them finally change their minds?

My wife and I recently visited Portland, OR and there was a small local bakery that still had a mask requirement. However, only from 7-10 AM. Apparently COVID is no longer infectious after 10 AM.

Or maybe that's when they are most crowded, or when they have an immuno-compromised worker.

I considered that, it was what I assumed all along, but there is only two of them and they are both now mask-less.  My working theory is maybe they did have a health concern but both got Covid at some point and found out that it did not affect them in a concerning way.  It was very strange because I did not start going to this store until Covid so this was my first time seeing either of their faces.

I was referring to Michael's post about the store with masks from 7-10, and his glib comment that Covid doesn't spread after 10.

Oops my mistake, I assumed it was a response to me

[Kris]

The last mask requirement in my town was lifted by a small shop that hung on to masking requirements in their store... they even stopped wearing them.  It's officially back to normal.  I wonder what it was that made them finally change their minds?

My wife and I recently visited Portland, OR and there was a small local bakery that still had a mask requirement. However, only from 7-10 AM. Apparently COVID is no longer infectious after 10 AM.

Or maybe that's when they are most crowded, or when they have an immuno-compromised worker.

Exactly. There is a simple, reasonable answer to the requirement.

[seattlecyclone]

The last mask requirement in my town was lifted by a small shop that hung on to masking requirements in their store... they even stopped wearing them.  It's officially back to normal.  I wonder what it was that made them finally change their minds?

My wife and I recently visited Portland, OR and there was a small local bakery that still had a mask requirement. However, only from 7-10 AM. Apparently COVID is no longer infectious after 10 AM.

Or maybe that's when they are most crowded, or when they have an immuno-compromised worker.

Exactly. There is a simple, reasonable answer to the requirement.

Perhaps they've had enough customers express a desire for higher precautions around infectious disease that their business success relies on serving this population for part of the day. Fewer and fewer businesses are doing this that there could be a valuable niche there for the ones who still do.

To be honest I'm not at all prepared to encounter a business with a mask requirement anymore. Used to be I'd carry one around in my back pocket all the time just in case, but it's been months (perhaps a year?) since I've seen anything like that outside of medical settings.

The routine I've settled into is pretty much where I expected I would land much earlier in this thread. I'll wear a mask when I'm personally sick as a courtesy to others. I'll also wear one when I'm in an airplane or similarly crowded place for an extended time, and where I have no real need to carry on conversation with others. Pre-pandemic I'd often get colds when traveling, but I just took a trip where I was perfectly healthy after the outbound leg and two days after the return I also feel fine. Seems worth it to me! Outside of those relatively narrow circumstances I leave the mask at home and generally don't concern myself much about whether I might catch something.

[Cassie]

I haven’t seen anyone wearing a mask in more than a year. Last January the medical facility I went to had a mask mandate but gave you one.