Author Topic: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?  (Read 8592 times)

dougules

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2016, 11:33:00 AM »
What does happen if Trump refuses to concede, even if he loses by a convincing margin, and his supporters get violent?  I think that most of the population would not stand for it, but even a few percent in open revolt could still wreak havoc. 

If I go overseas in the next 4 years, I'll tell people I'm Canadian, just so I don't have to answer the inevitable questions about "Why did you elect that idiot, Trump/Clinton?"  This worked pretty well for me when Bush, Jr, was in office.

Wow dude you are spineless and an embarrassment. Why can't you step up and own who you are and where you are from? I was abroad during the Bush Jr years as well and proudly stated I am American, answering any and all questions asked of me. I even had a doctor say through a translator "Tell him we don't like americans". Who cares? Own who you are and don't be such a jellyfish.

Seems a bit of an ad hominem way to put that.  But most people in the world make a distinction between citizens of a country vs their political leadership.  Who is leading the country may not in any way be reflective of you.  Most people in the US aren't as clear on the distinction, probably because we haven't had direct experience with an autocrat in a couple centuries.  (Insert rants about current politicians being dictators here) 

dycker1978

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2016, 11:34:48 AM »
What does happen if Trump refuses to concede, even if he loses by a convincing margin, and his supporters get violent?  I think that most of the population would not stand for it, but even a few percent in open revolt could still wreak havoc. 

The issue is that he is polling 40% ish.  So if there is a rebellion on that magnitude, it is a serious issue.

Northwestie

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2016, 12:02:39 PM »
But, how many of those folks are going to storm the Bastille?  My guess is that not many - there will be some bluster.  Most of his supporters are white old guys anyway who probably don't want to break a hip.

But, more importantly, I find is sad that this type of rhetoric is being tossed around by a major party candidate. 

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2016, 01:18:08 PM »
Why don't they share with you that the polls they are conducting that show Hillary in the lead are do to the population they poll being primarily Democrat which is not representative of our country? 

Because what you are saying has no basis in objective reality.  Here is how the pollsters determine who is a Independent or not: They ask and people self-report.

Now, all pollsters have house effective which means they tend to order a number higher or lower than the true value.  But the reputable polls themselves track each other pretty closely.  They all move about the same amount in the same directions.   That's why poll aggregators like fivethirtyeight, Drew Linzer, Princeton Election consortium, etc. predicted the 2012 election very accurately, in some cases completely accurately, down to the last electoral vote.   The simply look at lots of polls, and the errors within each poll tend to cancel each other out. 

Interestingly, in 2012 we were hearing the exact same complaints as you are making.  Romney was having huge rallies, polls not counting independents, the polls must skewed, etc.  But when the election results were counted, the polls provided an eerie level of accuracy.  With that caveat that most polls under-counted support for Obama.

Here we are just four years later, and people are claiming the exact same things that were wrong last time.    I'll go ahead and step out on a limb:  I'll say that Clinton will win the election by 339 electoral votes, to Trump's 199 EV, plus or minus 15.  Plus I'll say that the Democrats will win the Senate (50 seats or more).   

And a general comment:  The news media should try to be objective, as much as anyone can be.  That is their obligation to the public.  But deciding not to report non-sense is being objective. 


BlueHouse

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2016, 01:46:55 PM »
"The Media" has no obligation to be objective.  Each outlet brings its own slant to stories.  Everyone knows this. 
Cry baby candidates need to toughen up.

This is the part that gets me.  The man stands up and repeatedly brags about his millions of dollars and what a winner he is, and then has the gall to talk about people being "unfair" or "mean" to him. 

This guy never learned about Noblesse Oblige. He just wants to take and take and take. 

ETA:  Forgot to mention -- he has bad breath!

Sibley

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2016, 12:30:46 PM »
My sister apparently refuses point blank to discuss politics with my parents. After the phone call I had with my mom last night, I think I'm going to join my sister. The worst part is that my mom truly doesn't see how intolerant she's being, and in fact accuses my sister and I of being closed minded. You'd think that my sister dating a Muslim whose family emigrated to the US would help (and mom likes him!), but not seeing it.

The sheer amount of ignorance, fear, prejudice, hate, and intolerance that I've seen openly displayed by ordinary people worries me far more than anything else. No candidate, politician, judge, or government as a whole will ever be perfect. But a great deal can be counterbalanced and flat out changed by the general populace that is educated, tolerant, and willing to accept different people.

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2016, 01:03:03 PM »
If Trump doesn't concede it will have zero practical effects.  He's not an incumbent and has no actual power.  There's zero risk that he will receive military backing, and there are no current political appointees of his who might have enough loyalty to him to postpone or refuse to credential election results.  If this was an election for his second term then maybe this wouldn't be a nonsense item, but that's not the situation.

Any fear mongering from the left that his failure to admit the possibility of defeat is exactly that.  Is it a retarded thing for him to say?  Yes.  Is there any risk it will lead to a non peaceful transition of power?  No.  In this election, power is transferring from an incumbent who is not in the election to an outsider.  That outsider will be determined by votes counted, and the margin of victory for HRC is going to be so high that while he may very well sue, it won't delay or even substantially slow down the agenda of HRC.

This is known, it's known by the people who asked him the question, it's known by the people pretending to be "terrified," the big show continues.

There's a whole philosophy among certain people that acknowledging in any way the possibility of defeat increases the chances of defeat.  Relentless optimism is even a mainstay of the MMM philosophy.

Like every other person who ever lost an election for President of the United States, Trump will cease to be relevant to anyone at around noon the day after the election.  His supporters will go back to their jobs and keep paying their taxes like the good citizens they are.  Don't let the narrative you've clung to of how bad they must be to be opposed to your absolute stain of a candidate confuse you about the actual people that they are.  The day after the election, a higher percentage of trump voters will be working to support the government than HRC voters, so everybody spending time worrying about this can shove it right up their butt.

FIPurpose

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2016, 01:17:54 PM »
If Trump doesn't concede it will have zero practical effects.  He's not an incumbent and has no actual power.  There's zero risk that he will receive military backing, and there are no current political appointees of his who might have enough loyalty to him to postpone or refuse to credential election results.  If this was an election for his second term then maybe this wouldn't be a nonsense item, but that's not the situation.

Any fear mongering from the left that his failure to admit the possibility of defeat is exactly that.  Is it a retarded thing for him to say?  Yes.  Is there any risk it will lead to a non peaceful transition of power?  No.  In this election, power is transferring from an incumbent who is not in the election to an outsider.  That outsider will be determined by votes counted, and the margin of victory for HRC is going to be so high that while he may very well sue, it won't delay or even substantially slow down the agenda of HRC.

This is known, it's known by the people who asked him the question, it's known by the people pretending to be "terrified," the big show continues.

There's a whole philosophy among certain people that acknowledging in any way the possibility of defeat increases the chances of defeat.  Relentless optimism is even a mainstay of the MMM philosophy.

Like every other person who ever lost an election for President of the United States, Trump will cease to be relevant to anyone at around noon the day after the election.  His supporters will go back to their jobs and keep paying their taxes like the good citizens they are.  Don't let the narrative you've clung to of how bad they must be to be opposed to your absolute stain of a candidate confuse you about the actual people that they are.  The day after the election, a higher percentage of trump voters will be working to support the government than HRC voters, so everybody spending time worrying about this can shove it right up their butt.

Was making sense up until the end.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2016, 01:26:11 PM »
If Trump doesn't concede it will have zero practical effects.  He's not an incumbent and has no actual power.  There's zero risk that he will receive military backing, and there are no current political appointees of his who might have enough loyalty to him to postpone or refuse to credential election results.  If this was an election for his second term then maybe this wouldn't be a nonsense item, but that's not the situation.

Any fear mongering from the left that his failure to admit the possibility of defeat is exactly that.  Is it a retarded thing for him to say?  Yes.  Is there any risk it will lead to a non peaceful transition of power?  No.  In this election, power is transferring from an incumbent who is not in the election to an outsider.  That outsider will be determined by votes counted, and the margin of victory for HRC is going to be so high that while he may very well sue, it won't delay or even substantially slow down the agenda of HRC.

This is known, it's known by the people who asked him the question, it's known by the people pretending to be "terrified," the big show continues.

There's a whole philosophy among certain people that acknowledging in any way the possibility of defeat increases the chances of defeat.  Relentless optimism is even a mainstay of the MMM philosophy.

Like every other person who ever lost an election for President of the United States, Trump will cease to be relevant to anyone at around noon the day after the election.  His supporters will go back to their jobs and keep paying their taxes like the good citizens they are.  Don't let the narrative you've clung to of how bad they must be to be opposed to your absolute stain of a candidate confuse you about the actual people that they are.  The day after the election, a higher percentage of trump voters will be working to support the government than HRC voters, so everybody spending time worrying about this can shove it right up their butt.

Was making sense up until the end.

I was scratching my head a bit too. I think the implication is that Democrats are all going to go out and get hammered on election night, then not show up for work the next day?

FIRE Artist

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2016, 02:37:04 PM »
If Trump doesn't concede it will have zero practical effects.  He's not an incumbent and has no actual power.  There's zero risk that he will receive military backing, and there are no current political appointees of his who might have enough loyalty to him to postpone or refuse to credential election results.  If this was an election for his second term then maybe this wouldn't be a nonsense item, but that's not the situation.

Any fear mongering from the left that his failure to admit the possibility of defeat is exactly that.  Is it a retarded thing for him to say?  Yes.  Is there any risk it will lead to a non peaceful transition of power?  No.  In this election, power is transferring from an incumbent who is not in the election to an outsider.  That outsider will be determined by votes counted, and the margin of victory for HRC is going to be so high that while he may very well sue, it won't delay or even substantially slow down the agenda of HRC.

This is known, it's known by the people who asked him the question, it's known by the people pretending to be "terrified," the big show continues.

There's a whole philosophy among certain people that acknowledging in any way the possibility of defeat increases the chances of defeat.  Relentless optimism is even a mainstay of the MMM philosophy.

Like every other person who ever lost an election for President of the United States, Trump will cease to be relevant to anyone at around noon the day after the election.  His supporters will go back to their jobs and keep paying their taxes like the good citizens they are.  Don't let the narrative you've clung to of how bad they must be to be opposed to your absolute stain of a candidate confuse you about the actual people that they are.  The day after the election, a higher percentage of trump voters will be working to support the government than HRC voters, so everybody spending time worrying about this can shove it right up their butt.

Was making sense up until the end.

I was scratching my head a bit too. I think the implication is that Democrats are all going to go out and get hammered on election night, then not show up for work the next day?

I read it to mean that TOYM was implying that a higher percentage of Donald Trump's supporters have jobs and will be paying for all the Hillary supporters who draw social benefits.  I don't agree with this statement, but that is how I read it.  All along through, I was actually thinking most Trump supporters don't have jobs, and that is why they are available to attend his rallies in such large numbers.

FreeWheel

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2016, 09:14:09 PM »
Lawrence O'Donnell did a nice piece on why he believes there will be little violence and zero threat to our democracy after Donald is defeated.

http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2016/10/22/the-day-after-trumps-blackmail-threat-is-bogus/

It makes sense to me.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 09:16:15 PM by FreeWheel »

dividendman

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2016, 10:47:13 PM »
What does happen if Trump refuses to concede, even if he loses by a convincing margin, and his supporters get violent?  I think that most of the population would not stand for it, but even a few percent in open revolt could still wreak havoc. 

The issue is that he is polling 40% ish.  So if there is a rebellion on that magnitude, it is a serious issue.

It has happened before in the US. It didn't work out very well for the 40% that rebelled and this time they won't have any professional army.

Interestingly enough, the causes/issues of secession are pretty much what the extreme Trump supporters have today (reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War#Causes_of_secession
1) slavery Racism
2) Sectionalism
3) Protectionism
4) States' rights

Metric Mouse

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2016, 11:34:01 PM »
What does happen if Trump refuses to concede, even if he loses by a convincing margin, and his supporters get violent?  I think that most of the population would not stand for it, but even a few percent in open revolt could still wreak havoc. 

If I go overseas in the next 4 years, I'll tell people I'm Canadian, just so I don't have to answer the inevitable questions about "Why did you elect that idiot, Trump/Clinton?"  This worked pretty well for me when Bush, Jr, was in office.

Wow dude you are spineless and an embarrassment. Why can't you step up and own who you are and where you are from? I was abroad during the Bush Jr years as well and proudly stated I am American, answering any and all questions asked of me. I even had a doctor say through a translator "Tell him we don't like americans". Who cares? Own who you are and don't be such a jellyfish.

Seems a bit of an ad hominem way to put that.  But most people in the world make a distinction between citizens of a country vs their political leadership.  Who is leading the country may not in any way be reflective of you.  Most people in the US aren't as clear on the distinction, probably because we haven't had direct experience with an autocrat in a couple centuries.  (Insert rants about current politicians being dictators here)

Right? I don't see many people thinking everyone from Toronto is like Rob Ford or that everyone from New York is like Donald Trump.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2016, 11:37:55 PM »
Why don't they share with you that the polls they are conducting that show Hillary in the lead are do to the population they poll being primarily Democrat which is not representative of our country? 

Because what you are saying has no basis in objective reality.  Here is how the pollsters determine who is a Independent or not: They ask and people self-report.

Now, all pollsters have house effective which means they tend to order a number higher or lower than the true value.  But the reputable polls themselves track each other pretty closely.  They all move about the same amount in the same directions.   That's why poll aggregators like fivethirtyeight, Drew Linzer, Princeton Election consortium, etc. predicted the 2012 election very accurately, in some cases completely accurately, down to the last electoral vote.   The simply look at lots of polls, and the errors within each poll tend to cancel each other out. 

Interestingly, in 2012 we were hearing the exact same complaints as you are making.  Romney was having huge rallies, polls not counting independents, the polls must skewed, etc.  But when the election results were counted, the polls provided an eerie level of accuracy.  With that caveat that most polls under-counted support for Obama.

Here we are just four years later, and people are claiming the exact same things that were wrong last time.    I'll go ahead and step out on a limb:  I'll say that Clinton will win the election by 339 electoral votes, to Trump's 199 EV, plus or minus 15.  Plus I'll say that the Democrats will win the Senate (50 seats or more).   

And a general comment:  The news media should try to be objective, as much as anyone can be.  That is their obligation to the public.  But deciding not to report non-sense is being objective.

Offering any spread on the Senate?  I'm personally calling for the Senate to stay Red, and by a margin, though it may be smaller than it is today.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2016, 06:02:02 AM »
What does happen if Trump refuses to concede, even if he loses by a convincing margin, and his supporters get violent?  I think that most of the population would not stand for it, but even a few percent in open revolt could still wreak havoc. 

The issue is that he is polling 40% ish.  So if there is a rebellion on that magnitude, it is a serious issue.

It has happened before in the US. It didn't work out very well for the 40% that rebelled and this time they won't have any professional army.

Interestingly enough, the causes/issues of secession are pretty much what the extreme Trump supporters have today (reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War#Causes_of_secession
1) slavery Racism
2) Sectionalism
3) Protectionism
4) States' rights

I would argue it didn't turn out well for most of the people directly involved, regardless of which side. The loss of life in the Civil War was (and still is) astounding.

ender

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2016, 07:08:14 AM »
Why doesn't the mainstream media ask Hillary if she will accept election results?  Are they trying to convince the American people that she is going to win?

They don't ask her (again) because her answer is boring and to the point.

And it was already covered on national TV:


Quote
HOLT: One of you will not win this election. So my final question to you tonight, are you willing to accept the outcome as the will of the voters? Secretary Clinton?

CLINTON: Well, I support our democracy. And sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But I certainly will support the outcome of this election.

And I know Donald's trying very hard to plant doubts about it, but I hope the people out there understand: This election's really up to you. It's not about us so much as it is about you and your families and the kind of country and future you want. So I sure hope you will get out and vote as though your future depended on it, because I think it does.

HOLT: Mr. Trump, very quickly, same question. Will you accept the outcome as the will of the voters?

TRUMP: I want to make America great again. We are a nation that is seriously troubled. We're losing our jobs. People are pouring into our country.

The other day, we were deporting 800 people. And perhaps they passed the wrong button, they pressed the wrong button, or perhaps worse than that, it was corruption, but these people that we were going to deport for good reason ended up becoming citizens. Ended up becoming citizens. And it was 800. And now it turns out it might be 1,800, and they don't even know.

HOLT: Will you accept the outcome of the election?

TRUMP: Look, here's the story. I want to make America great again. I'm going to be able to do it. I don't believe Hillary will. The answer is, if she wins, I will absolutely support her.

Meanwhile, it took a repeated question to Trump to get his answer.

dougules

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Re: What if Trump steps down or won't concede?
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2016, 10:17:32 AM »
Quote
HOLT: One of you will not win this election. So my final question to you tonight, are you willing to accept the outcome as the will of the voters? Secretary Clinton?

CLINTON: Well, I support our democracy. And sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But I certainly will support the outcome of this election.

And I know Donald's trying very hard to plant doubts about it, but I hope the people out there understand: This election's really up to you. It's not about us so much as it is about you and your families and the kind of country and future you want. So I sure hope you will get out and vote as though your future depended on it, because I think it does.

HOLT: Mr. Trump, very quickly, same question. Will you accept the outcome as the will of the voters?

TRUMP: I want to make America great again. We are a nation that is seriously troubled. We're losing our jobs. People are pouring into our country.

The other day, we were deporting 800 people. And perhaps they passed the wrong button, they pressed the wrong button, or perhaps worse than that, it was corruption, but these people that we were going to deport for good reason ended up becoming citizens. Ended up becoming citizens. And it was 800. And now it turns out it might be 1,800, and they don't even know.

HOLT: Will you accept the outcome of the election?

TRUMP: Look, here's the story. I want to make America great again. I'm going to be able to do it. I don't believe Hillary will. The answer is, if she wins, I will absolutely support her.

Meanwhile, it took a repeated question to Trump to get his answer.

And Trump tries to paint himself as an anti-politician, but he can bob and weave around a question as well as any of them.