Author Topic: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?  (Read 1641 times)

Adam Zapple

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Is anyone slightly concerned about the current state of "Journalism" in the U.S.?  While I get that many in this community tend to lean to the left, politically, do you see the danger in one party controlling a vast majority of the information most Americans see on a daily basis?  Is there anywhere we can find quality, unbiased journalism anymore?

Khaetra

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2018, 07:02:04 AM »
You can find it, if you turn off "Fox News".  But seriously, these are indeed strange times we live in and also a potentially dangerous one for journalists.  We have a "President" who bashes almost every news outlet except for one, will not give interviews except to one outlet and calls all but one or two 'fake news'.  I get my news from a variety of sources, both print and TV and I think it's very important to be an informed citizen.  I also watch non-mainstream news (France24, Al-Jazeera English, etc.) to find out what is going on world-wide, not just in the US bubble.

Mustache ride

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2018, 07:08:23 AM »
You can find it, if you turn off "Fox News".  But seriously, these are indeed strange times we live in and also a potentially dangerous one for journalists.  We have a "President" who bashes almost every news outlet except for one, will not give interviews except to one outlet and calls all but one or two 'fake news'.  I get my news from a variety of sources, both print and TV and I think it's very important to be an informed citizen.  I also watch non-mainstream news (France24, Al-Jazeera English, etc.) to find out what is going on world-wide, not just in the US bubble.

The issue IMO is that real journalism no longer exists. It has nothing to do with the current president, which is what you seem to be implying. There is always going to be a bias of some sort in reporting, but the credibility and lack of professionalism in reporting now-a-days is despicable.

COEE

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2018, 07:09:19 AM »
My suggestion is to turn off the TV entirely.  Subscribe to your local newspaper for current events that actually matter to you.

the_fixer

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2018, 07:34:35 AM »
Yes it has become too political with each outlet leaning either to the left or right and as far as I can tell not one outlet that is a good mix and reporting factual non biased information.

I actually think it is dividing our country and making people more extreme politically and causing a divide that keeps getting larger and more extreme.

It really frustrates me because I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and can see them getting more extreme and angry and the more they watch their choice of news outlet they more it builds.

I sometimes wish people would just tune out a bit and think for themselves.



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BuildingFrugalHabits

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2018, 07:51:42 AM »
Suggest moving this thread to "Off Topic"

Here's a good chart that maps out media bias:
http://www.allgeneralizationsarefalse.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/media-bias-chart_3.0_Hi-Res.jpg

Personally, I don't watch any of the TV news stations. I do use AP/Reuters, NPR, BBC as well as the Wall Street Journal and find them to be well researched, reliable sources.  For politics, Politico, The Hill and The Economist are also good.  Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 08:03:52 AM by BuildingFrugalHabits »

Adam Zapple

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2018, 08:03:06 AM »
My suggestion is to turn off the TV entirely.  Subscribe to your local newspaper for current events that actually matter to you.

I do not watch any television news.  I refuse to support it in any way.  Their agenda is to divide people, incite violence, show only the most negative aspects of society, twist the truth to a predetermined narrative, deceive through omission...I could go on and on.  The only half-way decent news program is the CBS Sunday morning news, which I will watch a couple times a year.  I think MSNBC and Fox have a handful of decent journalists but I am rarely in the mood to sift through the rest of the garbage to find their work. 

My local newspapers are so far left leaning that I can't bear to read them (I would feel the same if they were far-right), not to mention they are often totally inaccurate in their reporting.

You can find it, if you turn off "Fox News".  But seriously, these are indeed strange times we live in and also a potentially dangerous one for journalists.  We have a "President" who bashes almost every news outlet except for one, will not give interviews except to one outlet and calls all but one or two 'fake news'.  I get my news from a variety of sources, both print and TV and I think it's very important to be an informed citizen.  I also watch non-mainstream news (France24, Al-Jazeera English, etc.) to find out what is going on world-wide, not just in the US bubble.

I agree with @Mustache ride regarding most "journalists" today.  I have no intention of starting a Trump vs. Hillary/Obama thread.  I try to remain objective and can see that neither the current administration nor most of our media outlets have much interest in being truthful, just pushing their own agendas.  I don't believe mainstream media outlets should have political agendas at all.  I agree that it is important to be an informed citizen...sometimes I just don't want to work so hard to find unbiased reporting. 

DreamFIRE

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2018, 08:15:26 AM »
The only half-way decent news program is the CBS Sunday morning news,

I watch parts of that, but I wouldn't even call it "news" for the most part.  They do cover news briefly at the beginning.

Khaetra

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2018, 08:18:36 AM »
My point wasn't to start a political firestorm, but to point out the dangers of relying on only one or two sources for news.  Some of the folks I volunteer/work with do this and take their choice of news as gospel.  As I stated earlier, I get my news from a variety of sources and form my own opinions, as one should.

COEE

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2018, 08:24:05 AM »
My local newspapers are so far left leaning that I can't bear to read them (I would feel the same if they were far-right), not to mention they are often totally inaccurate in their reporting.

I guess my local paper is really good... note that my local paper is for town of about 100k in a metro area of 2.8M+... maybe that gives some perspective to what I'm thinking for my suggestion.  I'm NOT suggesting the big Metro paper.  The paper I get does have some metro/state/US news which I usually throw in the recycle pretty quickly.

NorthernBlitz

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2018, 09:21:20 AM »
Suggest moving this thread to "Off Topic"

Here's a good chart that maps out media bias:
http://www.allgeneralizationsarefalse.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/media-bias-chart_3.0_Hi-Res.jpg

Personally, I don't watch any of the TV news stations. I do use AP/Reuters, NPR, BBC as well as the Wall Street Journal and find them to be well researched, reliable sources.  For politics, Politico, The Hill and The Economist are also good.  Hope this helps.

I think that the problem goes beyond political bias (which I think is also a big deal).

I think that the format of TV news is the big problem. It's all 5-10 minute segments that don't allow for more than people shouting at each other hoping for a great one liner that turns into a viral video.

I much prefer podcasts to TV news because the longer form content allows for more intelligent discussion.

sixwings

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2018, 10:43:52 AM »
Media is being shaped by a lot of different sources and it's creating a lot of problems.

1. People don't have the attention span to watch a news segment or research an issue resulting in basically click bait media (catchy titles and no substance), they rely on clicks and no one wants to read an article or watch a segment on international trade which leads to #2...
2. News is basically reality TV at this point. People just want to see what dumb thing came out of Trumps mouth and not analyze the substance of the issues
3. with the rise of things like twitter and the ease of editing video clips, no one wants to say something that can easily be taken out of context. Everything but a sentence gets edited out and it becomes viral when the sentence isn't representative of the statement as a whole. Congress/senate hate this and are giving fewer interviews that aren't pre-scripted to avoid this, when that happens everything continues to get dumbed down to just 30 second sound bites and no substance

The lack of substance in the discourse and politics is really worrying and a huge problem. IMO the 2 biggest problems with the country is the corruption in gov't after SC rulings like Citizens United, and that 2 factions of the country hate each other deeply and (particularly the right) are apparently allergic to discussing the substance of issues. I dont see any way out of it.

EnjoyIt

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2018, 10:56:49 AM »
Is anyone slightly concerned about the current state of "Journalism" in the U.S.?  While I get that many in this community tend to lean to the left, politically, do you see the danger in one party controlling a vast majority of the information most Americans see on a daily basis?  Is there anywhere we can find quality, unbiased journalism anymore?

I think it is a huge problem.  It has divided this country in half and each half seas the world with completely different eyes because of it.  Getting political news these days requires research.  It requires reading multiple sources where the real story is somewhere in the middle.  Frankly I don't have time for it these days.

DaMa

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2018, 11:23:42 AM »
When the ACA was being built, I found that all the news programs were saying things that were just wrong.  I found myself saying again and again that health insurance doesn't work that way.  I kept waiting for some good in-depth reporting on Dateline or 60 Minutes or the NY Times.  If that kind of reporting happened, I didn't see it.  That was a real eye-opener to how bad the "news" had become.  I'm sure others who are experts in their fields have the same experience. 

Now, I'll watch 10-20 minutes of local news to get the headlines and weather.  If it's something important to me, I'll research online, reading multiple sources.  I think most people just watch what they normally watch and believe whatever they're told.  Learning and thinking for themselves is a thing of the past. 

Tass

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2018, 12:17:10 PM »
The Wall Street Journal and The Economist are both quality, central-right leaning papers, as long as you read the actual news and not the opinion pages. (That's true of opinion pages generally, not just of those specific papers.)

I'm going to need a little more evidence for "one party controlling a vast majority of the information most Americans see on a daily basis" before I get worried about it. Good journalism is absolutely still out there if you put a bit of effort into finding it.

dang1

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2018, 05:19:24 PM »
I think, pretty good actually. Internet has enabled so many more folks have an outlet. Just try to think about what they're putting out there, and discern BS vs real

Kris

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2018, 06:10:53 PM »
I think, pretty good actually. Internet has enabled so many more folks have an outlet. Just try to think about what they're putting out there, and discern BS vs real

Lol. Simple. Easy. Just “do your own research.” Which has given us:

Flat earthers
Anti-vaxxers
Pizza-Gaters
Birthers
Obama-is-a-secret-Muslim-ers
We’ve-never-been-to-the-moon-ers
GMOs are killing us-ers
911 was an inside job-ers

Etc.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 07:34:29 PM by Kris »
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

tyort1

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2018, 07:25:42 PM »
I still read The Economist and The Atlantic.  I read (and watch) zero news otherwise.  Why?  It's a complete and utter waste of time.  I cannot change anything that is on the news, and conversely, nothing on the news will change my life in any way.  That time is better spent cooking or spending time with my family or reading actual novels and actual history books. 

Net result, I'm happier, better fed, have a longer term view of the world and am more cultured, generally.

I'm not saying the news is bad or evil, just (for me) unnecessary.  Literally a waste of time. 
Frugalite in training.

EnjoyIt

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2018, 07:56:00 PM »
I still read The Economist and The Atlantic.  I read (and watch) zero news otherwise.  Why?  It's a complete and utter waste of time.  I cannot change anything that is on the news, and conversely, nothing on the news will change my life in any way.  That time is better spent cooking or spending time with my family or reading actual novels and actual history books. 

Net result, I'm happier, better fed, have a longer term view of the world and am more cultured, generally.

I'm not saying the news is bad or evil, just (for me) unnecessary.  Literally a waste of time.

Life is definitely better when you don't watch CNN or FOX.

Tass

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2018, 07:59:57 PM »
Life is definitely better when you don't watch CNN or FOX.

Is CNN really that bad? Honest question because I don't watch it. I initially wrote off the attacks on it because I didn't trust the people doing the attacking but the chorus of this opinion seems to be rising.

EnjoyIt

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2018, 08:12:56 PM »
Life is definitely better when you don't watch CNN or FOX.

Is CNN really that bad? Honest question because I don't watch it. I initially wrote off the attacks on it because I didn't trust the people doing the attacking but the chorus of this opinion seems to be rising.

Personally I think it is just as bad as FOX just the other side of the coin.  Very divisive and opinionated. They selectively provide specific information which skews the news to their political agenda.  Just like FOX is awesome to the mindless conservative, CNN is awesome to the mindless liberal. 

Kris

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2018, 08:15:42 PM »
Life is definitely better when you don't watch CNN or FOX.

Is CNN really that bad? Honest question because I don't watch it. I initially wrote off the attacks on it because I didn't trust the people doing the attacking but the chorus of this opinion seems to be rising.

Personally I think it is just as bad as FOX just the other side of the coin.  Very divisive and opinionated. They selectively provide specific information which skews the news to their political agenda.  Just like FOX is awesome to the mindless conservative, CNN is awesome to the mindless liberal.

I find CNN quite worthless in many ways. And yet, let’s keep some perspective, here.

http://www.allgeneralizationsarefalse.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/media-bias-chart_3.0_Hi-Res.jpg

Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Tass

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2018, 08:18:11 PM »
I mean, I disagree with some of the placements on that chart, but indeed, I thought CNN was closeish to center.

Dabnasty

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2018, 08:30:21 PM »
Life is definitely better when you don't watch CNN or FOX.

Is CNN really that bad? Honest question because I don't watch it. I initially wrote off the attacks on it because I didn't trust the people doing the attacking but the chorus of this opinion seems to be rising.

I have very little viewing to go on but I would argue not as bad as fox in the sense of bias or some of the crazy news shows like Hannity, but just as bad in the mindlessness.

In some cases I'd rather read an article from Fox than watch the same story on CNN because there's an off chance of getting something of substance. On a related note, does CNN say "BREAKING NEWS" every other time they come back from commercials? I think they've killed any meaning that term once had.

Khaetra

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2018, 04:36:42 AM »
Life is definitely better when you don't watch CNN or FOX.

Is CNN really that bad? Honest question because I don't watch it. I initially wrote off the attacks on it because I didn't trust the people doing the attacking but the chorus of this opinion seems to be rising.

From my perspective, no, but then I don't watch it 24/7 (I don't keep news on 24/7 either, just to make that point clear).

Adam Zapple

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2018, 04:46:44 AM »
The Wall Street Journal and The Economist are both quality, central-right leaning papers, as long as you read the actual news and not the opinion pages. (That's true of opinion pages generally, not just of those specific papers.)

I'm going to need a little more evidence for "one party controlling a vast majority of the information most Americans see on a daily basis" before I get worried about it. Good journalism is absolutely still out there if you put a bit of effort into finding it.

Well its not like I can find unbiased articles as evidence of of political bias in the news media but to me, it is obvious.  As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it.  NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN, MSNBC, Yahoo News, Washington Post, Huffington Post, the Guardian...whether television, print or internet publications, all are quite left leaning in their reporting (some blatantly so).  This doesn't take into account all the "Pop-News" click-baity news outlets which I can't even name but there are tons of them that are constantly churning out articles that scew left.  Every entertainer is forced into the cult of progressive thought and will openly support only democratic candidates.  If one dares to "come out" as a conservative their career is over leaving only a handful of 80's and 90's sitcom stars who can no longer find work.  Every single late night talk-show bashes republicans and pushes progressive agendas.  Could you imagine someone standing up at any award show and speaking about traditional family values, self-reliance, strong borders, cutting government programs etc?  They might be killed on the spot as all of the stars hurl their promotional items at them.

There's a reason FOX news is so popular.  It is the ONLY easily accessible news outlet reporting from a conservative standpoint and is absolutely vilified for doing so.  I wouldn't consider the economist or WSJ mainstream publications but that's only because I don't know a single person in real life who actually reads either of them.  They may be more popular than I realize.

Khaetra

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2018, 07:02:44 AM »

Well its not like I can find unbiased articles as evidence of of political bias in the news media but to me, it is obvious.  As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it.  NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN, MSNBC, Yahoo News, Washington Post, Huffington Post, the Guardian...whether television, print or internet publications, all are quite left leaning in their reporting (some blatantly so).  This doesn't take into account all the "Pop-News" click-baity news outlets which I can't even name but there are tons of them that are constantly churning out articles that scew left.  Every entertainer is forced into the cult of progressive thought and will openly support only democratic candidates.  If one dares to "come out" as a conservative their career is over leaving only a handful of 80's and 90's sitcom stars who can no longer find work.  Every single late night talk-show bashes republicans and pushes progressive agendas.  Could you imagine someone standing up at any award show and speaking about traditional family values, self-reliance, strong borders, cutting government programs etc?  They might be killed on the spot as all of the stars hurl their promotional items at them.

There's a reason FOX news is so popular.  It is the ONLY easily accessible news outlet reporting from a conservative standpoint and is absolutely vilified for doing so.  I wouldn't consider the economist or WSJ mainstream publications but that's only because I don't know a single person in real life who actually reads either of them.  They may be more popular than I realize.

We have a president who calls all but Fox News 'fake news'.  We also have 'conservative' media outlets who spread A LOT of false stories, which could turn deadly (Alex Jones and 'PizzaGate' anyone?).  Yesterday we had Fox break away from the cave rescue to go to "Breaking News!" and talk about a Hillary non-story for an hour (JFC they can't let her go, can they?).  The president only watches Fox News and complains when he goes somewhere where it's not offered.  He retweets almost all of their talking points and has offered their opinions as facts.  Is that not dangerous?

Adam Zapple

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2018, 08:34:39 AM »

Well its not like I can find unbiased articles as evidence of of political bias in the news media but to me, it is obvious.  As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it.  NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN, MSNBC, Yahoo News, Washington Post, Huffington Post, the Guardian...whether television, print or internet publications, all are quite left leaning in their reporting (some blatantly so).  This doesn't take into account all the "Pop-News" click-baity news outlets which I can't even name but there are tons of them that are constantly churning out articles that scew left.  Every entertainer is forced into the cult of progressive thought and will openly support only democratic candidates.  If one dares to "come out" as a conservative their career is over leaving only a handful of 80's and 90's sitcom stars who can no longer find work.  Every single late night talk-show bashes republicans and pushes progressive agendas.  Could you imagine someone standing up at any award show and speaking about traditional family values, self-reliance, strong borders, cutting government programs etc?  They might be killed on the spot as all of the stars hurl their promotional items at them.

There's a reason FOX news is so popular.  It is the ONLY easily accessible news outlet reporting from a conservative standpoint and is absolutely vilified for doing so.  I wouldn't consider the economist or WSJ mainstream publications but that's only because I don't know a single person in real life who actually reads either of them.  They may be more popular than I realize.

We have a president who calls all but Fox News 'fake news'.  We also have 'conservative' media outlets who spread A LOT of false stories, which could turn deadly (Alex Jones and 'PizzaGate' anyone?).  Yesterday we had Fox break away from the cave rescue to go to "Breaking News!" and talk about a Hillary non-story for an hour (JFC they can't let her go, can they?).  The president only watches Fox News and complains when he goes somewhere where it's not offered.  He retweets almost all of their talking points and has offered their opinions as facts.  Is that not dangerous?

I think you are mistaking me for someone who wants to argue politics or pick a side and start yelling.  I have not defended the president or Fox news.  There is an entire thread dedicated to arguing about the Trump presidency.

Kris

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2018, 09:07:54 AM »

Well its not like I can find unbiased articles as evidence of of political bias in the news media but to me, it is obvious.  As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it.  NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN, MSNBC, Yahoo News, Washington Post, Huffington Post, the Guardian...whether television, print or internet publications, all are quite left leaning in their reporting (some blatantly so).  This doesn't take into account all the "Pop-News" click-baity news outlets which I can't even name but there are tons of them that are constantly churning out articles that scew left.  Every entertainer is forced into the cult of progressive thought and will openly support only democratic candidates.  If one dares to "come out" as a conservative their career is over leaving only a handful of 80's and 90's sitcom stars who can no longer find work.  Every single late night talk-show bashes republicans and pushes progressive agendas.  Could you imagine someone standing up at any award show and speaking about traditional family values, self-reliance, strong borders, cutting government programs etc?  They might be killed on the spot as all of the stars hurl their promotional items at them.

There's a reason FOX news is so popular.  It is the ONLY easily accessible news outlet reporting from a conservative standpoint and is absolutely vilified for doing so.  I wouldn't consider the economist or WSJ mainstream publications but that's only because I don't know a single person in real life who actually reads either of them.  They may be more popular than I realize.

We have a president who calls all but Fox News 'fake news'.  We also have 'conservative' media outlets who spread A LOT of false stories, which could turn deadly (Alex Jones and 'PizzaGate' anyone?).  Yesterday we had Fox break away from the cave rescue to go to "Breaking News!" and talk about a Hillary non-story for an hour (JFC they can't let her go, can they?).  The president only watches Fox News and complains when he goes somewhere where it's not offered.  He retweets almost all of their talking points and has offered their opinions as facts.  Is that not dangerous?

I think you are mistaking me for someone who wants to argue politics or pick a side and start yelling.  I have not defended the president or Fox news.  There is an entire thread dedicated to arguing about the Trump presidency.

The fact is, though, that when one talks about Fox News, it is nearly impossible to avoid talking politics, as the network was created to advance a conservative agenda. Rupert Murdoch chose former U.S. Republican Party political strategist and NBC executive Roger Ailes to start Fox News Channel. And there was a reason for that, of course. You can read all about that here.

http://gawker.com/5814150/roger-ailes-secret-nixon-era-blueprint-for-fox-news

Fox is not a news channel. It is a mouthpiece for the Republican Party. So, to say you don't want to talk about politics while talking about Fox makes no sense.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Raymond Reddington

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2018, 09:22:25 AM »
The biggest problem is the growing extremism of the media - how opinions are given equal consideration as facts, and how every story is seen as advancing a cause.

Of course, the "causes" are things that most of us don't really care about.

I don't think illegal immigrants should enjoy benefits afforded to citizens when you have military veterans struggling with PTSD and depression, and 9/11 first responders can't even get guaranteed benefits for life after destroying their own health to assist in the wreckage.

But on the other hand, I think the healthcare system is completely broken, that the rich should pay more in taxes, that capital gains should be treated as ordinary income, that options should not be allowed as executive compensation (though shares of a company stock, which have a fair value on the date they are paid, are legit). And corporations are not, nor will ever be people, nor does money equate to speech.

I also think there is entirely too much government waste and bloat, and the government spends way too much time arguing about and regulating people's lifestyles.

Of course, these are all things you won't read about or see in a complete position on the news. Because it's all about sensationalist partisan crap.
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GuitarStv

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2018, 09:27:38 AM »
There has always been some degree of political slant to news.  News is written and reported by people, people have viewpoints, these viewpoints will make their way into reports to some degree.  News quality as a whole has been radically damaged by the modern internet era though.

Newspapers can't compete with free online sites.  Most of them have gone out of business.  Free online sites make money by attracting viewers, and they tend to do this with sensationalism rather than quality journalism.  Sensationalism is after all far cheaper than research, hard work, and paying a journalist for all that.  TV news has always leaned this way, as the format requires short stories that don't dig deep into an issue.

In order to function, democracy requires an informed electorate.  It is dependent upon journalists to alert and warn the public to real threats and issues, so that they can decide how they want to vote.  At the same time, we've been steadily dismantling the best sources of journalism over the past 20 years.

The polarization of people, the ability of a person to live in an echo chamber of news that only confirms his/her own bias, advertising and disinformation masquerading as news, large corporate organizations who control media going towards big segments of the population and use news as propaganda . . . these problems are new.  They are significant, and taken together they are a serious problem.  By actively attacking most news stations, constantly lying to the public, and specifically aligning himself with hyper-partisan Fox news, Trump is hastening some of this problem - but he's certainly not the sole cause or the originator.  Unfortunately, I don't see a good way out of this mess.
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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2018, 09:48:18 AM »
The biggest problem is the growing extremism of the media - how opinions are given equal consideration as facts, and how every story is seen as advancing a cause.

Of course, the "causes" are things that most of us don't really care about.

I don't think illegal immigrants should enjoy benefits afforded to citizens when you have military veterans struggling with PTSD and depression, and 9/11 first responders can't even get guaranteed benefits for life after destroying their own health to assist in the wreckage.

But on the other hand, I think the healthcare system is completely broken, that the rich should pay more in taxes, that capital gains should be treated as ordinary income, that options should not be allowed as executive compensation (though shares of a company stock, which have a fair value on the date they are paid, are legit). And corporations are not, nor will ever be people, nor does money equate to speech.

I also think there is entirely too much government waste and bloat, and the government spends way too much time arguing about and regulating people's lifestyles.

Of course, these are all things you won't read about or see in a complete position on the news. Because it's all about sensationalist partisan crap.

And there are few people who would argue against any of your reasonable points.  If there is nothing to argue about then it is no longer newsworthy.  You need two talking heads to take opposing sides.


Well its not like I can find unbiased articles as evidence of of political bias in the news media but to me, it is obvious.  As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it.  NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN, MSNBC, Yahoo News, Washington Post, Huffington Post, the Guardian...whether television, print or internet publications, all are quite left leaning in their reporting (some blatantly so).  This doesn't take into account all the "Pop-News" click-baity news outlets which I can't even name but there are tons of them that are constantly churning out articles that scew left.  Every entertainer is forced into the cult of progressive thought and will openly support only democratic candidates.  If one dares to "come out" as a conservative their career is over leaving only a handful of 80's and 90's sitcom stars who can no longer find work.  Every single late night talk-show bashes republicans and pushes progressive agendas.  Could you imagine someone standing up at any award show and speaking about traditional family values, self-reliance, strong borders, cutting government programs etc?  They might be killed on the spot as all of the stars hurl their promotional items at them.

There's a reason FOX news is so popular.  It is the ONLY easily accessible news outlet reporting from a conservative standpoint and is absolutely vilified for doing so.  I wouldn't consider the economist or WSJ mainstream publications but that's only because I don't know a single person in real life who actually reads either of them.  They may be more popular than I realize.

We have a president who calls all but Fox News 'fake news'.  We also have 'conservative' media outlets who spread A LOT of false stories, which could turn deadly (Alex Jones and 'PizzaGate' anyone?).  Yesterday we had Fox break away from the cave rescue to go to "Breaking News!" and talk about a Hillary non-story for an hour (JFC they can't let her go, can they?).  The president only watches Fox News and complains when he goes somewhere where it's not offered.  He retweets almost all of their talking points and has offered their opinions as facts.  Is that not dangerous?

I think you are mistaking me for someone who wants to argue politics or pick a side and start yelling.  I have not defended the president or Fox news.  There is an entire thread dedicated to arguing about the Trump presidency.

The fact is, though, that when one talks about Fox News, it is nearly impossible to avoid talking politics, as the network was created to advance a conservative agenda. Rupert Murdoch chose former U.S. Republican Party political strategist and NBC executive Roger Ailes to start Fox News Channel. And there was a reason for that, of course. You can read all about that here.

http://gawker.com/5814150/roger-ailes-secret-nixon-era-blueprint-for-fox-news

Fox is not a news channel. It is a mouthpiece for the Republican Party. So, to say you don't want to talk about politics while talking about Fox makes no sense.
 

I don't think any objective person should take Fox news or MSNBC as actual "news."  If you are watching these channels you are looking to hear people to reinforce your own political beliefs.  Perhaps even bringing up Fox at all was a mistake.  I just don't want the conversation to derail into a "Trump sucks" vs. "Trump is great" argument.  Trump stabs himself in the foot when he (rightfully) complains about certain segments of the media who cherry pick facts and present them in a way that makes him look bad, then the next day (wrongfully) calls something "fake news" that is easily verifiable and 100% true.  He is not a skilled liar like most politicians. 

My problem is with media outlets pretending to be unbiased while simultaneously pushing a political agenda.

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2018, 09:55:09 AM »
I watch ABC's news at night before Jeopardy and I haven't seen (or noticed) any bias.  When I have tuned into the other's (NBC and CBS) I haven't noticed any bias there either.  I don't watch the other news programs they offer so I can't say either way if there's a bias or not on those.  I do however watch (and love!) Last Week Tonight, so there's that :).

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2018, 10:09:27 AM »
And there are few people who would argue against any of your reasonable points.  If there is nothing to argue about then it is no longer newsworthy.  You need two talking heads to take opposing sides.

Of course there are. There will always be conflicting viewpoints. But by leaning so far left or right (depending on which media outfit we are talking about), or towards unimportant "human interest" stories that distract from the real issues, everything becomes lost to an echo chamber of ideological purity whereby any sense of reason is lost to hyperbole, and by the end, little exists to resemble anything resembling a rational position - yet it is bandied about as the "party line" and the pom pom waving Democrats and Republicans support the rather ridiculous outcome of their party/media groupthink against their own best interests. What isn't lost to that becomes lost to an overwhelming sense of fatigue from the news cycle, such that escape is welcome, and thus the popularity of human interest stories and the like, which are really not newsworthy, but are designed to make people feel good momentarily.

This is why I don't watch TV news. I try to think of any internet news I read in the context of, this is going to happen regardless, how can I make my own life better by acting on this information?

Additionally, the whole concept of media talking heads "debating" on TV (rather than actual politicians) is foolish because candidate debates last far longer and really get into the issues, whereas TV personality debates or op-ed pieces are typically built around straw man arguments and attempts to characterize the opposition as ridiculously as possible to further one's own agenda. Which is of course, made easier, when both sides have their share of loony ideological purity crazyhat theories going around. And the TV segments are never long enough to actually get into the meat and potatoes of the issue, or allow the formation of complex opinions - the idea being you're either "with me" or "against me" - which is not the way that a society can solve its problems.

The way grown men and women are wrestling over control of Congress and the Supreme Court like children fighting over a toy is by far the most problematic of these symptoms, as our government has basically ceased to function for the people, but the wider symptom is the fact that as a nation we have lost much of our manners and civility towards each other on the basis of fake news and hyperbole, and many people voluntary self-identify with a caricature of their own political and economic views solely to comply with their party's ideological purity test, despite it not being in their best interest to do so. People now immediately judge others by their political views, don't step outside their box, and don't generate productive dialogue that calls people (including themselves) to question their own long held beliefs in a way that is not offputting. And yet, if you go outside, you can still have a BBQ, enjoy beautiful scenery that we haven't managed to totally destroy yet, mail someone a letter or talk to them through the Internet, see some of the most creative people on the planet on Youtube distributing entertainment product for free that is better than what is mass consumed for profit, and even just go meet up with someone and have a delicious cold beer you've never had before somewhere nearby thanks to the craft beer movement. And it boggles my mind that most people would rather make politics that intrinsic to their being that they wouldn't want to do any of those things with someone on the other side of the political fence as them, and would rather surround themselves in a positive feedback loop echo chamber regarding a bunch of things that they have literally no control over.

Some of the nicest people I know are Trump supporters. Some of the most naive are Bernie and Hillary supporters. Yet, none of that changes the fact that I still think Trump is exploiting populist sentiment for his own gain, and while he occasionally does get something right, he is doing irreparable damage to the country in the process, particularly through his Supreme Court picks.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 10:23:08 AM by Raymond Reddington »
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JLee

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2018, 10:44:15 AM »
You can find it, if you turn off "Fox News".  But seriously, these are indeed strange times we live in and also a potentially dangerous one for journalists.  We have a "President" who bashes almost every news outlet except for one, will not give interviews except to one outlet and calls all but one or two 'fake news'.  I get my news from a variety of sources, both print and TV and I think it's very important to be an informed citizen.  I also watch non-mainstream news (France24, Al-Jazeera English, etc.) to find out what is going on world-wide, not just in the US bubble.

The issue IMO is that real journalism no longer exists. It has nothing to do with the current president, which is what you seem to be implying. There is always going to be a bias of some sort in reporting, but the credibility and lack of professionalism in reporting now-a-days is despicable.

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pecunia

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2018, 10:46:30 AM »
Not sure if this has been pointed out.

I used to be a part time cameraman for a small TV station.  What was most important?  Selling "spots."  That is selling advertisements.

TV news exists to fill the time between "spots" and to just keep you interested enough that you won't shut the thing off.

TV news has also degraded.  They have found that it is cheaper to have a group of people sitting around discussing a topic rather than sending reporters out to get "real" news.  I'm sure it has been pointed out that what is reported is selected to not give any of the sponsors any difficulties.

Johnez

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2018, 10:58:49 AM »
I watch ABC's news at night before Jeopardy and I haven't seen (or noticed) any bias.  When I have tuned into the other's (NBC and CBS) I haven't noticed any bias there either.  I don't watch the other news programs they offer so I can't say either way if there's a bias or not on those.  I do however watch (and love!) Last Week Tonight, so there's that :).

That's becaus you're watching actual news.

I think the real problem is there is so much to consume. It's like the difference between today and 1950 in the restaurant imdustry, today the McDonalds and KFCs of the media world are dumping their product all over the internet and new ways to get fat are popping up  faster than ever. Back in the pre-internet days media was what, 3 TV stations and your local paper? Now we get to troll through the internet and have the power of complete strangers helping us find the latest thing that interests us or lines up with our views (Facebook, Reddit, forums, etc). I remember there was a time I could finish the paper and be able to stop and think about what's going on in the world, and then move on. Now we get to scroll through endlessly, and the "news" a lot of places churn out is actually packaged news. Instead of actual news reporting, it's talking *about* the news.

tyort1

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2018, 11:08:21 AM »
I watch ABC's news at night before Jeopardy and I haven't seen (or noticed) any bias.  When I have tuned into the other's (NBC and CBS) I haven't noticed any bias there either.  I don't watch the other news programs they offer so I can't say either way if there's a bias or not on those.  I do however watch (and love!) Last Week Tonight, so there's that :).

That's becaus you're watching actual news.

I think the real problem is there is so much to consume. It's like the difference between today and 1950 in the restaurant imdustry, today the McDonalds and KFCs of the media world are dumping their product all over the internet and new ways to get fat are popping up  faster than ever. Back in the pre-internet days media was what, 3 TV stations and your local paper? Now we get to troll through the internet and have the power of complete strangers helping us find the latest thing that interests us or lines up with our views (Facebook, Reddit, forums, etc). I remember there was a time I could finish the paper and be able to stop and think about what's going on in the world, and then move on. Now we get to scroll through endlessly, and the "news" a lot of places churn out is actually packaged news. Instead of actual news reporting, it's talking *about* the news.

Yes, exactly right.  Which is why I stopped trying to "keep up" (as I indicated in my first post in this thread).  I like the Atlantic (left leaning) and the Economist (right leaning) because they are one of the few places where you get real, in depth, actual reporting.  And consuming it on a monthly basis is a hell of a lot more manageable than trying to watch daily news. 

IME, the best way to avoid extremism and us-vs-them-ism is to simply avoid watching daily news at all.  I have friends and family on both the left and the right, and they are all riled up, all the time.  I seem to be the only one that's not angry or outraged on a daily/weekly basis.  I'm also the only one that doesn't listen to TV news or talk radio.  That shit is poison and is best avoided completely. 
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FIRE@50

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2018, 11:10:21 AM »
I haven't paid for TV in well over 6 years, so I rarely see what is on cable news. However, over the air, for free, PBS gives me access to PBS NewsHour (USA), DemocracyNow (USA), NHK (Japan) news, BBC World News America (England), and DW News (German). I'm actually pretty happy with the media that I have access to.

As for the CBS Sunday Morning News that some have mentioned, I used to watch all the time and mostly liked it. I don't know why, but it took me a while to figure out that it was all just people plugging a book/play/movie/etc. I got tired of it and stopped watching.

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2018, 11:32:52 AM »
Well its not like I can find unbiased articles as evidence of of political bias in the news media but to me, it is obvious.  As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it.  NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN, MSNBC, Yahoo News, Washington Post, Huffington Post, the Guardian...whether television, print or internet publications, all are quite left leaning in their reporting (some blatantly so).

First off, I would question the sentiment "As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it." The center is going to look left-leaning from the right; similarly, the same center will look right-leaning from the left. The trick about human brains is the stuff that seems unbiased to each of us is going to be the stuff that best matches our personal biases. "It seems obvious to me" isn't solid evidence. There are plenty of studies about media bias that show a nice sprinkling of sources near the center, with some trending left or right. Fox is usually represented much farther from center than anything else generally considered mainstream.

You've listed a weird mixture of things that are genuinely center afaik (NBC, ABC, CBS) and things that are known to be left-leaning (NYT, MSNBC, WaPo, HuffPo). I'm not saying left-leaning publications don't exist, but rather that they aren't 100% of the media as you seem to believe. In fact, the two pubs I listed (WSJ and Economist) I would consider to be higher tier than MSNBC, WaPo, or HuffPo; they would be at the top with NYT as high quality but not perfectly centrist.

I wouldn't consider the economist or WSJ mainstream publications but that's only because I don't know a single person in real life who actually reads either of them.  They may be more popular than I realize.

It sounds like your problem isn't with the media but rather with the news and/or social circle you choose for yourself.

This doesn't take into account all the "Pop-News" click-baity news outlets which I can't even name but there are tons of them that are constantly churning out articles that scew left.

There's plenty of trash clickbait on both sides. All of it is harmful.

Every entertainer is forced into the cult of progressive thought and will openly support only democratic candidates.  If one dares to "come out" as a conservative their career is over leaving only a handful of 80's and 90's sitcom stars who can no longer find work.  Every single late night talk-show bashes republicans and pushes progressive agendas.  Could you imagine someone standing up at any award show and speaking about traditional family values, self-reliance, strong borders, cutting government programs etc?  They might be killed on the spot as all of the stars hurl their promotional items at them.

I'm not going to deny that Hollywood trends left, but entertainers having opinions is hardly the same thing as the media being universally slanted. There are a lot of reasons for that - entertainers are usually in big cities, which trend left; entertainment has a high concentration of LGBT people, whose rights were more quickly embraced by the left than the right; etc. If you're really upset about this I'm sure there's an interesting discussion to be had, but it's not the same discussion as about media bias.

Overall I think reading the news is better for you than watching it, and there are several reliable conservative print outlets. I'm sorry that you don't want to recognize them, but they exist. The sensationalism of the news is a real problem that GuitarStv discussed, but it's a problem media of all partisan slants is facing. And the best way to counter it, as an individual, is to seek out quality journalism and support it.

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2018, 11:47:46 AM »

As for the CBS Sunday Morning News that some have mentioned, I used to watch all the time and mostly liked it. I don't know why, but it took me a while to figure out that it was all just people plugging a book/play/movie/etc. I got tired of it and stopped watching.

I hate this. It's all over the morning shows, the Spanish ones too. Sucks because the morning shows are a lot less of a bummer than the evening news, which seem to be a parade of drunk driver wrecks, murder, fires, and other tragedy....

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2018, 02:33:58 PM »
Over the years I've seen a few articles written by local journalists about my industry or sometimes my organization, and they've always been inaccurate or incomplete, not telling the whole story, counterpoints, details, etc.  Sometimes it may have been to stir controversy, drama, get clicks, or to weave a storyline of their choosing.  I've learned to read news stories, especially negative or critique pieces, with a critical eye and understanding that there's likely a counterpoint, extra detail or explanation that hasn't been shared.

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2018, 02:41:52 PM »
Over the years I've seen a few articles written by local journalists about my industry or sometimes my organization, and they've always been inaccurate or incomplete, not telling the whole story, counterpoints, details, etc.  Sometimes it may have been to stir controversy, drama, get clicks, or to weave a storyline of their choosing.  I've learned to read news stories, especially negative or critique pieces, with a critical eye and understanding that there's likely a counterpoint, extra detail or explanation that hasn't been shared.

Same about my field. They all write these "articles" with the stuck up tone of a know it all, yet the most basic facts of what actually transpired are missing or wrong. Even articles that make an effort to understand my field, take exhaustive measures to explain things correctly, culminate with an oversimplified suggested solution that lacks any real practical application (or is limited in scope) because they ignore the very same real world considerations they painstakingly detailed earlier in the article, clearly just to enhance their qualifications to oversimplify later.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 02:47:52 PM by Raymond Reddington »
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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2018, 03:35:45 PM »
Well its not like I can find unbiased articles as evidence of of political bias in the news media but to me, it is obvious.  As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it.  NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN, MSNBC, Yahoo News, Washington Post, Huffington Post, the Guardian...whether television, print or internet publications, all are quite left leaning in their reporting (some blatantly so).

First off, I would question the sentiment "As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it." The center is going to look left-leaning from the right; similarly, the same center will look right-leaning from the left. The trick about human brains is the stuff that seems unbiased to each of us is going to be the stuff that best matches our personal biases. "It seems obvious to me" isn't solid evidence. There are plenty of studies about media bias that show a nice sprinkling of sources near the center, with some trending left or right. Fox is usually represented much farther from center than anything else generally considered mainstream.

You've listed a weird mixture of things that are genuinely center afaik (NBC, ABC, CBS) and things that are known to be left-leaning (NYT, MSNBC, WaPo, HuffPo). I'm not saying left-leaning publications don't exist, but rather that they aren't 100% of the media as you seem to believe. In fact, the two pubs I listed (WSJ and Economist) I would consider to be higher tier than MSNBC, WaPo, or HuffPo; they would be at the top with NYT as high quality but not perfectly centrist.

I wouldn't consider the economist or WSJ mainstream publications but that's only because I don't know a single person in real life who actually reads either of them.  They may be more popular than I realize.

It sounds like your problem isn't with the media but rather with the news and/or social circle you choose for yourself.

This doesn't take into account all the "Pop-News" click-baity news outlets which I can't even name but there are tons of them that are constantly churning out articles that scew left.

There's plenty of trash clickbait on both sides. All of it is harmful.

Every entertainer is forced into the cult of progressive thought and will openly support only democratic candidates.  If one dares to "come out" as a conservative their career is over leaving only a handful of 80's and 90's sitcom stars who can no longer find work.  Every single late night talk-show bashes republicans and pushes progressive agendas.  Could you imagine someone standing up at any award show and speaking about traditional family values, self-reliance, strong borders, cutting government programs etc?  They might be killed on the spot as all of the stars hurl their promotional items at them.

I'm not going to deny that Hollywood trends left, but entertainers having opinions is hardly the same thing as the media being universally slanted. There are a lot of reasons for that - entertainers are usually in big cities, which trend left; entertainment has a high concentration of LGBT people, whose rights were more quickly embraced by the left than the right; etc. If you're really upset about this I'm sure there's an interesting discussion to be had, but it's not the same discussion as about media bias.

Overall I think reading the news is better for you than watching it, and there are several reliable conservative print outlets. I'm sorry that you don't want to recognize them, but they exist. The sensationalism of the news is a real problem that GuitarStv discussed, but it's a problem media of all partisan slants is facing. And the best way to counter it, as an individual, is to seek out quality journalism and support it.

I tried to reply to this already, so sorry if I repeat myself.  It appears my original reply did not go through, which I'm glad of because it was pretty snarky.  When I originally read your reply it struck me as rude, which it really is not now that I read it again. 

You caught me hedging my argument and admitting that I may carry my own biases.  That being said, I do not believe that NBC, CBS, or ABC are genuinely "center" news outlets at all.  You can call this my opinion if you'd like, since I don't plan on spending the next few months of my life researching the topic to prove my point.  I would just say that just because they do not offer opinion pieces that scew to the left does not mean they are not left leaning.  What is omitted and included in the daily broadcasts can scew in one direction or the other, which I'm sure you already understand.  One thing that has occurred to me while reading these replies is that progressive ideas do tend to be more newsworthy than conservative ideas.  A bunch of people who march in the streets for change are far more interesting than a bunch of people who just want to go to church and leave things alone.  There is no news in leaving things alone.

The only place I read the economist is at the doctors office.  I work in a blue collar field.  None of my coworkers or friends read it.  I will not be seeking out economist reading reading friends.  I apologize.  I may subscribe though as I've been looking for more in-depth journalism lately.  I know hundreds of people and have had thousands of conversations with people from all walks of life.  Nobody has ever brought up any articles from the economist.  Most people talk about things they see on facebook, twitter or yahoo or they talk about other stuff like what they had for breakfast or sports or their kids.  This is real life for me and I don't think I'm an outlier.  I don't use facebook or twitter but if I read yahoo news right now I can guarantee any political pieces will be bashing trump, pushing some sort of agenda that most democrat politicians would get behind, praising the Obamas in some way, criticizing the Trump family in some way, collecting a bunch of twitter rants from celebrities regarding some political issue and calling it an article etc. 

tyort1

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2018, 04:02:21 PM »
Well its not like I can find unbiased articles as evidence of of political bias in the news media but to me, it is obvious.  As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it.  NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN, MSNBC, Yahoo News, Washington Post, Huffington Post, the Guardian...whether television, print or internet publications, all are quite left leaning in their reporting (some blatantly so).

First off, I would question the sentiment "As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it." The center is going to look left-leaning from the right; similarly, the same center will look right-leaning from the left. The trick about human brains is the stuff that seems unbiased to each of us is going to be the stuff that best matches our personal biases. "It seems obvious to me" isn't solid evidence. There are plenty of studies about media bias that show a nice sprinkling of sources near the center, with some trending left or right. Fox is usually represented much farther from center than anything else generally considered mainstream.

You've listed a weird mixture of things that are genuinely center afaik (NBC, ABC, CBS) and things that are known to be left-leaning (NYT, MSNBC, WaPo, HuffPo). I'm not saying left-leaning publications don't exist, but rather that they aren't 100% of the media as you seem to believe. In fact, the two pubs I listed (WSJ and Economist) I would consider to be higher tier than MSNBC, WaPo, or HuffPo; they would be at the top with NYT as high quality but not perfectly centrist.

I wouldn't consider the economist or WSJ mainstream publications but that's only because I don't know a single person in real life who actually reads either of them.  They may be more popular than I realize.

It sounds like your problem isn't with the media but rather with the news and/or social circle you choose for yourself.

This doesn't take into account all the "Pop-News" click-baity news outlets which I can't even name but there are tons of them that are constantly churning out articles that scew left.

There's plenty of trash clickbait on both sides. All of it is harmful.

Every entertainer is forced into the cult of progressive thought and will openly support only democratic candidates.  If one dares to "come out" as a conservative their career is over leaving only a handful of 80's and 90's sitcom stars who can no longer find work.  Every single late night talk-show bashes republicans and pushes progressive agendas.  Could you imagine someone standing up at any award show and speaking about traditional family values, self-reliance, strong borders, cutting government programs etc?  They might be killed on the spot as all of the stars hurl their promotional items at them.

I'm not going to deny that Hollywood trends left, but entertainers having opinions is hardly the same thing as the media being universally slanted. There are a lot of reasons for that - entertainers are usually in big cities, which trend left; entertainment has a high concentration of LGBT people, whose rights were more quickly embraced by the left than the right; etc. If you're really upset about this I'm sure there's an interesting discussion to be had, but it's not the same discussion as about media bias.

Overall I think reading the news is better for you than watching it, and there are several reliable conservative print outlets. I'm sorry that you don't want to recognize them, but they exist. The sensationalism of the news is a real problem that GuitarStv discussed, but it's a problem media of all partisan slants is facing. And the best way to counter it, as an individual, is to seek out quality journalism and support it.

I tried to reply to this already, so sorry if I repeat myself.  It appears my original reply did not go through, which I'm glad of because it was pretty snarky.  When I originally read your reply it struck me as rude, which it really is not now that I read it again. 

You caught me hedging my argument and admitting that I may carry my own biases.  That being said, I do not believe that NBC, CBS, or ABC are genuinely "center" news outlets at all.  You can call this my opinion if you'd like, since I don't plan on spending the next few months of my life researching the topic to prove my point.  I would just say that just because they do not offer opinion pieces that scew to the left does not mean they are not left leaning.  What is omitted and included in the daily broadcasts can scew in one direction or the other, which I'm sure you already understand.  One thing that has occurred to me while reading these replies is that progressive ideas do tend to be more newsworthy than conservative ideas.  A bunch of people who march in the streets for change are far more interesting than a bunch of people who just want to go to church and leave things alone.  There is no news in leaving things alone.

The only place I read the economist is at the doctors office.  I work in a blue collar field.  None of my coworkers or friends read it.  I will not be seeking out economist reading reading friends.  I apologize.  I may subscribe though as I've been looking for more in-depth journalism lately.  I know hundreds of people and have had thousands of conversations with people from all walks of life.  Nobody has ever brought up any articles from the economist.  Most people talk about things they see on facebook, twitter or yahoo or they talk about other stuff like what they had for breakfast or sports or their kids.  This is real life for me and I don't think I'm an outlier.  I don't use facebook or twitter but if I read yahoo news right now I can guarantee any political pieces will be bashing trump, pushing some sort of agenda that most democrat politicians would get behind, praising the Obamas in some way, criticizing the Trump family in some way, collecting a bunch of twitter rants from celebrities regarding some political issue and calling it an article etc.

What you are describing is bias.  Personal bias.  You're definitely on the right side of the political spectrum.  You'd be happier if more news was covered with a right leaning bias.  You think places like ABC, CBS, etc skew left.

On the other hand, I am on the left side of the political spectrum.  I'd be happier if there were more news covered from a liberal leaning bias.  To me, I think places like ABC, CBS, etc skew right.

See how that works? 

The things that are truly in the center, will seem like they are left leaning to a person on the right, and will seem like they are right leaning to a person on the left.  That's the exact dynamic in play here. 
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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2018, 04:15:10 PM »
What you are describing is bias.  Personal bias.  You're definitely on the right side of the political spectrum.  You'd be happier if more news was covered with a right leaning bias.  You think places like ABC, CBS, etc skew left.

On the other hand, I am on the left side of the political spectrum.  I'd be happier if there were more news covered from a liberal leaning bias.  To me, I think places like ABC, CBS, etc skew right.

See how that works? 

The things that are truly in the center, will seem like they are left leaning to a person on the right, and will seem like they are right leaning to a person on the left.  That's the exact dynamic in play here.

I slightly disagree, but on a technicality. Truly neutral news coverage will offer facts, rather than opinions, and present the relevant information in a way that the viewer can form their own opinions. The so called "experts" brought on to debate or hammer home a point is counterproductive IMO.

The fact that everything on either side is held to an ideological purity test is why no progress is being made on America's major issues. Because before the issue even leaves the party, the positions have been so radicalized as to be completely incompatible with the other side's equally radical idea. This prevents dialogue, and national unity. The last thing we agreed on in this country was "9/11 bad".

Neutral news coverage should have some conservative points, and some liberal points. Because the truth lies in the middle, in the balance. Unfortunately, where we need bigger government we have smaller government, and where we need smaller government, we have bigger government. So we got the whole moderate thing backwards, and now the extremists are running amok.
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Johnez

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2018, 04:25:00 PM »
We have Fox (the antenna station), CBS, ABC, NBC, etc. One thing I give credit for the regular local news is they mostly report the facts. When Melania went to the border town where the children were being separated from their parents, nothing about her jacket was mentioned. Now of course it was all over the internet which I found out later. There are tons of "micro-stories" that the left or right leaning media companies will drag out to elicit outrage, which the regular local news doesn't cover as much. Even if they DID mention it, it would be in a detached way of describing the issue-facts, not opinions. When it's about protests, it's who is protesting what and why, not who is right, and picking sides. I admire that. Now if only they'd get rid of celebrity news and just gave a simplified weather chart showing what's going on where instead of making a whole damn segment for it lol.

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2018, 04:28:05 PM »
Well its not like I can find unbiased articles as evidence of of political bias in the news media but to me, it is obvious.  As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it.  NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN, MSNBC, Yahoo News, Washington Post, Huffington Post, the Guardian...whether television, print or internet publications, all are quite left leaning in their reporting (some blatantly so).

First off, I would question the sentiment "As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it." The center is going to look left-leaning from the right; similarly, the same center will look right-leaning from the left. The trick about human brains is the stuff that seems unbiased to each of us is going to be the stuff that best matches our personal biases. "It seems obvious to me" isn't solid evidence. There are plenty of studies about media bias that show a nice sprinkling of sources near the center, with some trending left or right. Fox is usually represented much farther from center than anything else generally considered mainstream.

You've listed a weird mixture of things that are genuinely center afaik (NBC, ABC, CBS) and things that are known to be left-leaning (NYT, MSNBC, WaPo, HuffPo). I'm not saying left-leaning publications don't exist, but rather that they aren't 100% of the media as you seem to believe. In fact, the two pubs I listed (WSJ and Economist) I would consider to be higher tier than MSNBC, WaPo, or HuffPo; they would be at the top with NYT as high quality but not perfectly centrist.

I wouldn't consider the economist or WSJ mainstream publications but that's only because I don't know a single person in real life who actually reads either of them.  They may be more popular than I realize.

It sounds like your problem isn't with the media but rather with the news and/or social circle you choose for yourself.

This doesn't take into account all the "Pop-News" click-baity news outlets which I can't even name but there are tons of them that are constantly churning out articles that scew left.

There's plenty of trash clickbait on both sides. All of it is harmful.

Every entertainer is forced into the cult of progressive thought and will openly support only democratic candidates.  If one dares to "come out" as a conservative their career is over leaving only a handful of 80's and 90's sitcom stars who can no longer find work.  Every single late night talk-show bashes republicans and pushes progressive agendas.  Could you imagine someone standing up at any award show and speaking about traditional family values, self-reliance, strong borders, cutting government programs etc?  They might be killed on the spot as all of the stars hurl their promotional items at them.

I'm not going to deny that Hollywood trends left, but entertainers having opinions is hardly the same thing as the media being universally slanted. There are a lot of reasons for that - entertainers are usually in big cities, which trend left; entertainment has a high concentration of LGBT people, whose rights were more quickly embraced by the left than the right; etc. If you're really upset about this I'm sure there's an interesting discussion to be had, but it's not the same discussion as about media bias.

Overall I think reading the news is better for you than watching it, and there are several reliable conservative print outlets. I'm sorry that you don't want to recognize them, but they exist. The sensationalism of the news is a real problem that GuitarStv discussed, but it's a problem media of all partisan slants is facing. And the best way to counter it, as an individual, is to seek out quality journalism and support it.

I tried to reply to this already, so sorry if I repeat myself.  It appears my original reply did not go through, which I'm glad of because it was pretty snarky.  When I originally read your reply it struck me as rude, which it really is not now that I read it again. 

You caught me hedging my argument and admitting that I may carry my own biases.  That being said, I do not believe that NBC, CBS, or ABC are genuinely "center" news outlets at all.  You can call this my opinion if you'd like, since I don't plan on spending the next few months of my life researching the topic to prove my point.  I would just say that just because they do not offer opinion pieces that scew to the left does not mean they are not left leaning.  What is omitted and included in the daily broadcasts can scew in one direction or the other, which I'm sure you already understand.  One thing that has occurred to me while reading these replies is that progressive ideas do tend to be more newsworthy than conservative ideas.  A bunch of people who march in the streets for change are far more interesting than a bunch of people who just want to go to church and leave things alone.  There is no news in leaving things alone.

The only place I read the economist is at the doctors office.  I work in a blue collar field.  None of my coworkers or friends read it.  I will not be seeking out economist reading reading friends.  I apologize.  I may subscribe though as I've been looking for more in-depth journalism lately.  I know hundreds of people and have had thousands of conversations with people from all walks of life.  Nobody has ever brought up any articles from the economist.  Most people talk about things they see on facebook, twitter or yahoo or they talk about other stuff like what they had for breakfast or sports or their kids.  This is real life for me and I don't think I'm an outlier.  I don't use facebook or twitter but if I read yahoo news right now I can guarantee any political pieces will be bashing trump, pushing some sort of agenda that most democrat politicians would get behind, praising the Obamas in some way, criticizing the Trump family in some way, collecting a bunch of twitter rants from celebrities regarding some political issue and calling it an article etc.

What you are describing is bias.  Personal bias.  You're definitely on the right side of the political spectrum.  You'd be happier if more news was covered with a right leaning bias.  You think places like ABC, CBS, etc skew left.

On the other hand, I am on the left side of the political spectrum.  I'd be happier if there were more news covered from a liberal leaning bias.  To me, I think places like ABC, CBS, etc skew right.

See how that works? 

The things that are truly in the center, will seem like they are left leaning to a person on the right, and will seem like they are right leaning to a person on the left.  That's the exact dynamic in play here.

I understand personal bias.  Do you?  Would you be surprised to know that Journalists that self-identify as democrats outnumber those who self-identify as republicans anywhere from 4 or 5-to-1, depending on which research you believe?  This is not my personal bias, just facts.

Raymond Reddington

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2018, 04:33:27 PM »
We have Fox (the antenna station), CBS, ABC, NBC, etc. One thing I give credit for the regular local news is they mostly report the facts. When Melania went to the border town where the children were being separated from their parents, nothing about her jacket was mentioned. Now of course it was all over the internet which I found out later. There are tons of "micro-stories" that the left or right leaning media companies will drag out to elicit outrage, which the regular local news doesn't cover as much. Even if they DID mention it, it would be in a detached way of describing the issue-facts, not opinions. When it's about protests, it's who is protesting what and why, not who is right, and picking sides. I admire that. Now if only they'd get rid of celebrity news and just gave a simplified weather chart showing what's going on where instead of making a whole damn segment for it lol.

Yes, that is the absolute worst. Since I live in the northern part of the country and we have a very varied climate, we get a whole 20 minute story every time snow is forecast with "the latest models" and all the news channels get out their yardsticks and whip it out to talk about whose doppler radar is more precise. Then another 10 minutes of human interest stories about people whose snowblowers broke, cars got stuck, etc. Then in the summer, we get a whole 20 minute story on how hot it is with such invaluable reminders as to wear sunset as they sensationalistically offer the 5 day forecast to answer the key question of "when will temperatures drop a little to offer some relief?" And celebrity news? Definitely the worst. One of the biggest reasons I stopped watching TV news at all.
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tyort1

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Re: What do you think of the current state of the media in the U.S.?
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2018, 04:37:27 PM »
Well its not like I can find unbiased articles as evidence of of political bias in the news media but to me, it is obvious.  As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it.  NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN, MSNBC, Yahoo News, Washington Post, Huffington Post, the Guardian...whether television, print or internet publications, all are quite left leaning in their reporting (some blatantly so).

First off, I would question the sentiment "As far as I can tell, I am not imagining it." The center is going to look left-leaning from the right; similarly, the same center will look right-leaning from the left. The trick about human brains is the stuff that seems unbiased to each of us is going to be the stuff that best matches our personal biases. "It seems obvious to me" isn't solid evidence. There are plenty of studies about media bias that show a nice sprinkling of sources near the center, with some trending left or right. Fox is usually represented much farther from center than anything else generally considered mainstream.

You've listed a weird mixture of things that are genuinely center afaik (NBC, ABC, CBS) and things that are known to be left-leaning (NYT, MSNBC, WaPo, HuffPo). I'm not saying left-leaning publications don't exist, but rather that they aren't 100% of the media as you seem to believe. In fact, the two pubs I listed (WSJ and Economist) I would consider to be higher tier than MSNBC, WaPo, or HuffPo; they would be at the top with NYT as high quality but not perfectly centrist.

I wouldn't consider the economist or WSJ mainstream publications but that's only because I don't know a single person in real life who actually reads either of them.  They may be more popular than I realize.

It sounds like your problem isn't with the media but rather with the news and/or social circle you choose for yourself.

This doesn't take into account all the "Pop-News" click-baity news outlets which I can't even name but there are tons of them that are constantly churning out articles that scew left.

There's plenty of trash clickbait on both sides. All of it is harmful.

Every entertainer is forced into the cult of progressive thought and will openly support only democratic candidates.  If one dares to "come out" as a conservative their career is over leaving only a handful of 80's and 90's sitcom stars who can no longer find work.  Every single late night talk-show bashes republicans and pushes progressive agendas.  Could you imagine someone standing up at any award show and speaking about traditional family values, self-reliance, strong borders, cutting government programs etc?  They might be killed on the spot as all of the stars hurl their promotional items at them.

I'm not going to deny that Hollywood trends left, but entertainers having opinions is hardly the same thing as the media being universally slanted. There are a lot of reasons for that - entertainers are usually in big cities, which trend left; entertainment has a high concentration of LGBT people, whose rights were more quickly embraced by the left than the right; etc. If you're really upset about this I'm sure there's an interesting discussion to be had, but it's not the same discussion as about media bias.

Overall I think reading the news is better for you than watching it, and there are several reliable conservative print outlets. I'm sorry that you don't want to recognize them, but they exist. The sensationalism of the news is a real problem that GuitarStv discussed, but it's a problem media of all partisan slants is facing. And the best way to counter it, as an individual, is to seek out quality journalism and support it.

I tried to reply to this already, so sorry if I repeat myself.  It appears my original reply did not go through, which I'm glad of because it was pretty snarky.  When I originally read your reply it struck me as rude, which it really is not now that I read it again. 

You caught me hedging my argument and admitting that I may carry my own biases.  That being said, I do not believe that NBC, CBS, or ABC are genuinely "center" news outlets at all.  You can call this my opinion if you'd like, since I don't plan on spending the next few months of my life researching the topic to prove my point.  I would just say that just because they do not offer opinion pieces that scew to the left does not mean they are not left leaning.  What is omitted and included in the daily broadcasts can scew in one direction or the other, which I'm sure you already understand.  One thing that has occurred to me while reading these replies is that progressive ideas do tend to be more newsworthy than conservative ideas.  A bunch of people who march in the streets for change are far more interesting than a bunch of people who just want to go to church and leave things alone.  There is no news in leaving things alone.

The only place I read the economist is at the doctors office.  I work in a blue collar field.  None of my coworkers or friends read it.  I will not be seeking out economist reading reading friends.  I apologize.  I may subscribe though as I've been looking for more in-depth journalism lately.  I know hundreds of people and have had thousands of conversations with people from all walks of life.  Nobody has ever brought up any articles from the economist.  Most people talk about things they see on facebook, twitter or yahoo or they talk about other stuff like what they had for breakfast or sports or their kids.  This is real life for me and I don't think I'm an outlier.  I don't use facebook or twitter but if I read yahoo news right now I can guarantee any political pieces will be bashing trump, pushing some sort of agenda that most democrat politicians would get behind, praising the Obamas in some way, criticizing the Trump family in some way, collecting a bunch of twitter rants from celebrities regarding some political issue and calling it an article etc.

What you are describing is bias.  Personal bias.  You're definitely on the right side of the political spectrum.  You'd be happier if more news was covered with a right leaning bias.  You think places like ABC, CBS, etc skew left.

On the other hand, I am on the left side of the political spectrum.  I'd be happier if there were more news covered from a liberal leaning bias.  To me, I think places like ABC, CBS, etc skew right.

See how that works? 

The things that are truly in the center, will seem like they are left leaning to a person on the right, and will seem like they are right leaning to a person on the left.  That's the exact dynamic in play here.

I understand personal bias.  Do you?  Would you be surprised to know that Journalists that self-identify as democrats outnumber those who self-identify as republicans anywhere from 4 or 5-to-1, depending on which research you believe?  This is not my personal bias, just facts.

Are you saying that CBS, ABC, etc don't appear to skew right, from my perspective? 

And if it's really, really bothersome how left-leaning these news shows are (from your perspective) here's a tip - don't watch them.  I don't watch them either.  Because everytime I do I think "Why are all the damn stories slanted to the right?".  Which aggravates me.  So I remove that aggravation by simply not watching them.  I don't start threads on message boards bemoaning the fact that the mainstream media doesn't align with my personal political views.
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