What are your dog restrictions?

[MKinVA]

He is not for you....get out of this relationship for all the reasons people have stated. This will become a bigger and bigger issue after you move in together.  If he can't handle the messiness of a dog, how does he deal with kids? This may well be telling you something about him. Listen to your gut.

[Shor]

*virtual hugs*
Sometimes just getting through life involves compromises.

I can't say that I understand separating the dog while everyone eats, unless she's being very wild / beggy for scraps. When we had a dog he was very nosey for table food, but we eventually trained him out of it (although to date, several dinners have gone missing from the countertop under his watch!).

I hope everyone can adjust well to the new boundaries

[sunnyca]

*virtual hugs*
Sometimes just getting through life involves compromises.

I can't say that I understand separating the dog while everyone eats, unless she's being very wild / beggy for scraps. When we had a dog he was very nosey for table food, but we eventually trained him out of it (although to date, several dinners have gone missing from the countertop under his watch!).

I hope everyone can adjust well to the new boundaries

Thanks Shor!  You've met my dog, so you know that overall, she's a pretty good girl.  We can only hope everyone will adjust well...

[Megma]

Good luck!

If you are worried he will keep pushing back, make sure to keep a housing option open for yourself should you need to rehome yourself and your dog! I hope it works out for you.

[JLee]

Update: we discussed this issue, and I expressed my concerns about his attitude towards my dog.  The compromise I made was that the dog would stay out of the kitchen and bedrooms, but have free rein elsewhere.  And if he wasn't going to be happy living with me under those circumstances, then, well...

We made a further compromise that the dog would be in the backyard during mealtimes, which I didn't have a problem with.  And that was that.

I'm really concerned that this issue will continue to come up, and that he'll keep trying to push the boundaries on the dog.  I feel that if he decides to be in a relationship with me, he should be able to accept my relationship with my dog.  Otherwise, he should be in a relationship with someone without a dog.

So frustrating.

How well trained is the dog? I noticed the 'outside during mealtimes' part and that question immediately came to mind. I am not remotely a dog person, but my SO's dog is so well trained that I have become rather attached to him. He doesn't try to steal food, he doesn't beg...basically, he's not annoying.

[former player]

I wasn't sure whether the "outside at mealtimes" thing meant dog meals or family meals?

If the former, is your dog a messy eater?  Or your SO doesn't like the smell of dog food?  If the latter, I would try training the dog to go to its basket during family mealtimes: if you can get this done before you move in I can't think of any rational problem it doesn't solve.

[sunnyca]

I wasn't sure whether the "outside at mealtimes" thing meant dog meals or family meals?

If the former, is your dog a messy eater?  Or your SO doesn't like the smell of dog food?  If the latter, I would try training the dog to go to its basket during family mealtimes: if you can get this done before you move in I can't think of any rational problem it doesn't solve.

Outside at mealtimes meant both eating outside and during people mealtimes. She's actually very well trained and doesn't beg at all, but with a 3 and 5 year old around, food gets dropped, and she does like to eat the scraps that fall to the floor.  It bothers him to see the dog snarf scraps that hit the ground.  Which to me is a little weird, but having the dog hang out in the yard during mealtimes (or in another room, in rainy weather) is an acceptable compromise for me. 

[Megma]

I wasn't sure whether the "outside at mealtimes" thing meant dog meals or family meals?

If the former, is your dog a messy eater?  Or your SO doesn't like the smell of dog food?  If the latter, I would try training the dog to go to its basket during family mealtimes: if you can get this done before you move in I can't think of any rational problem it doesn't solve.

Outside at mealtimes meant both eating outside and during people mealtimes. She's actually very well trained and doesn't beg at all, but with a 3 and 5 year old around, food gets dropped, and she does like to eat the scraps that fall to the floor.  It bothers him to see the dog snarf scraps that hit the ground.  Which to me is a little weird, but having the dog hang out in the yard during mealtimes (or in another room, in rainy weather) is an acceptable compromise for me.

Haha! Floor clean up is one of the reasons we like having a dog! It's like pre-mopping. To each their own I guess 😀

[Freedom2016]

I wasn't sure whether the "outside at mealtimes" thing meant dog meals or family meals?

If the former, is your dog a messy eater?  Or your SO doesn't like the smell of dog food?  If the latter, I would try training the dog to go to its basket during family mealtimes: if you can get this done before you move in I can't think of any rational problem it doesn't solve.

Outside at mealtimes meant both eating outside and during people mealtimes. She's actually very well trained and doesn't beg at all, but with a 3 and 5 year old around, food gets dropped, and she does like to eat the scraps that fall to the floor.  It bothers him to see the dog snarf scraps that hit the ground.  Which to me is a little weird, but having the dog hang out in the yard during mealtimes (or in another room, in rainy weather) is an acceptable compromise for me.

What?!? Three times a day I have to clean up all the food that my 3-yr old and 1-yr old drop on the floor. And three times a day I wish we had a dog to clean it up for me.

[cheddarpie]

Oh, man. I am sorry. This is a tough issue but I have to echo everyone else here ... I would not compromise the love I have for my dog or his well-being, nor would I be willing to compromise on having dogs as part of the family in the future. It's true, dogs are gross (and I agree, not nearly as gross as cats, who seem to pee wherever they damn well please), but if you are a dog person then you know that and you know the joys and loves far outweigh the farts and furs.

All that said, my SO is not as much of a dog person as I am, and we've compromised by having pup sleep on the floor in his own bed instead of on ours. Pup doesn't go to SO's house, which is carpeted, but that also means I don't sleep there either. I make an effort to spend time there so that we're not only at my place (we're only a few blocks away, so that makes it easier), but when it's time to go to bed I go home. SO has come to love my dog almost as much as I do and is becoming more of a dog person in general, so these things do evolve, but not to the extreme you are describing.

Good luck and hang in there!
*hugs and heartbreak* :/

[I'm a red panda]

You can also train a dog to not pick up dropped food.

When we drop food our dog usually sits nicely and stares at us "that's for me, right?" until we tell her she can have it.   

We let her be in the kitchen/dining room normally, but when people are over, we tell her to stay out of the kitchen/dining room and she does.

We have too much cold weather to make her eat outside, but we do have her eat in the mudroom. I know some people who feed their dogs in the kitchen, but I didn't want to be tripping on bowls.  The mudroom door is always open so she has access to water.

[GuitarStv]

It's too bad your SO has older children.  With babies having a dog in the house is really good . . . the extra exposure to bacteria helps reduce chances of asthma and enrich the symbiotic bacteria in their guts.  I'm not convinced that cleanliness is really a great argument against pet ownership when the dirt and bacteria are helpful.  :P

[wingnut]

What happens 1, 3, 5... years from now? Will you, your dog, and your cats be overwhelmed by the certain to increase responsibilities surrounding your new "family"? Will you be able to easily extract yourself from the arrangement if it becomes untenable? Will you ever be able to get another dog? Cat?

If you believe your needs will be well met moving forward then go for it. If you're not, then what's wrong with the status quo?

[RetiredAt63]

Sorry, this got long.

Border collies are smart, if they had opposable thumbs we would all be in trouble.  Definitely smart enough to learn to leave food that falls to the floor alone.  Mine does, and she is a breed that lives for food.  And in 2 years, when the kids are not dropping food on the floor, will the dog still be in exile for meals?  Dogs are social/pack animals, they like to do things together, especially eating.  For your dog, together means with you.

If you are having to make all these adjustments for a well-behaved 5 year old dog, Cassie is right, this is probably your last dog.  Your SO does not sound like someone who will be able to cope with either house-training and otherwise training a puppy, or adjusting to an older foster dog who is having to adjust to the household.  In fact, if he doesn't like having a dog around at 5, wait until the dog is old and having health issues.  There will be complaints.  I've seen families where the kids and one parent loved the dog, and the other parent didn't - there were definitely issues in those families. And that was when the dog came into a family (parents and children), not when the dog was part of the ingredients of a blended family.

So far he is OK with the cats?  Once there is less dog presence, he may start to think that some of the issues he thought were dog issues are also cat issues.  I loved all my cats dearly, but now that I am cat-less (age takes us all, including my cats) I sure don't miss the kitty litter tracked several feet, or cleaning the litter box, or finding the wet icky hairballs in the morning.  My cat could throw up discretely, whereas the rare time the dog does it can be heard all through the house, including at 3AM.  A pain, but at least I know I have something to clean up now, instead of finding surprises later.

From over here, this sounds like a potential room-mate situation for incompatible room-mates.  Unless there are overwhelming reasons to move in together (and I am having a super hard time thinking of any), your relationship may be better if you are two households.  After all, the food your dog is scarfing off the floor is coming from his messy unhygienic kids.  Three and five year olds should not be adding to the dog's diet that much.  One year olds, sure, but not three.  How come they are such sloppy eaters?  And when they are sick, will he get up and wash the sheets and remake the beds and all those other icky aspects of childcare, or will he expect you to?  Or when they hurl on the nice wood floors, or get hurt and bleed all over the sofa or car, what then?  (Sorry, my parenting memories just surfaced, nothing there any parent has not had to deal with).

I guess all my biases are showing - I am definitely a "love me, like my pets" kind of person.  I like having the dog on the bed (in winter, we are both happier that she sleeps in the bathroom on a cold tile floor in summer, her choice), I like hearing her quietly breathe as she lies on the floor behind me right now.

[RetiredAt63]

I feel like I killed the thread  ;-(  no-one has posted for three days.

Sunnyca - any decision yet?  Given that tomorrow is the big romance day?  All the dog lovers here are hoping things work out for your dog  ;-)

[LeRainDrop]

I guess all my biases are showing - I am definitely a "love me, like my pets" kind of person.  I like having the dog on the bed (in winter, we are both happier that she sleeps in the bathroom on a cold tile floor in summer, her choice), I like hearing her quietly breathe as she lies on the floor behind me right now.

Another vote for "love me, like my pets."  I'm afraid that if you stay living with your SO, this will be your last dog, and he will continue to pressure you for more and more restrictions on this one.  You say that you live in a condo now, with your dog having pretty much free reign of your home.  I think that moving to a place where there are so many more restrictions your dog, especially where he must be separated from you, will be difficult.  I feel badly to hear that your dog will get relegated to eating outside only, when he's used to being indoors so much.

Introducing reasonable boundaries on your pets is okay, and can have benefits, but I think that, fundamentally, you and your SO have very different attitudes towards the dog.  I'm afraid that I agree with you, OP, in your feelings about this latest compromise:

I'm really concerned that this issue will continue to come up, and that he'll keep trying to push the boundaries on the dog.  I feel that if he decides to be in a relationship with me, he should be able to accept my relationship with my dog.  Otherwise, he should be in a relationship with someone without a dog.

[sunnyca]

The decision is to hold off on moving in together for now, while making a few compromises in the meantime at his place and mine. If those work out, then things should hopefully work out well in the long-term. The compromises are:

-having the dog not sleep in the bedroom. She's still allowed in the bedroom and on the bed at any other time, just not at bedtime since some of the noises she makes can be a bit disruptive to sleep. I'm used to it and can sleep through it, but I can accept that not everyone can. 
-having the dog not sit or lay down underneath or right by the table during people mealtimes.  She doesn't beg for food, but I haven't trained her not to go for food that drops on the ground. I'm working on it, but in the meantime, this compromise seems to work.

Those are pretty much it. I did agree that should we move in together in the future, that I'd be ok with keeping her away from the bedrooms/kitchen and away from the table during people mealtimes. I feel like those are already pretty big concessions on my part.  We had a pretty serious discussion about this earlier in which I basically did say that these were the only concessions I'd make, and if he wasn't ok with them, that the relationship wasn't going to work regardless.  He agreed to the compromises. So we'll see how things go. 

Oddly enough, he really likes the cats and considers then to be really clean, as pets go. Go figure.

[the_fella]

You most certainly are not being unreasonable. I am a major dog lover, too. It would be a dealbreaker for me if my imaginary SO didn't like/want dogs. My dog is my son. He sleeps in my bed (he probably sees it as I sleep in his bed) and can go anywhere in the apartment. When I'm on the toilet, he frequently comes in and sits down or lies down in front of or near me.

I had my last dog for 10 years. When he died, I became suicidal. I honestly didn't want to live in a world without him. I still miss him very much.

[RetiredAt63]

Somewhere there is a (funny) list of things you tell your dog.  One is that there is no second exit from the bathroom, and that you cannot leave the house if they are outside the bathroom door not giving direct surveillance.

Which means there are a lot of dogs who think we definitely need supervision in the bathroom.  Mine makes sure I survive taking a shower.  She isn't much for baths or rain.

When I'm on the toilet, he frequently comes in and sits down or lies down in front of or near me.

[RetiredAt63]

This sounds doable.  Not snatching food on the floor is good dining room manners.  Now how is his training of the food droppers going?  Adult dogs are = 2 year old children.  His are 3 and 5, so more capable.

Seriously, any dog should be trained to the "leave it" command - very useful on walks (dogs go for the ickiest things) but also in the house (i.e. "leave it" for chocolate or onions or garlic, or the Thanksgiving turkey that slid off the platter).

Dog sleeping noises -  is she dreaming and making funny noises?  Or breathing funny (something to discuss with your vet, maybe)?  Given how men (often) manage to sleep through children's noises that wake up their wives, I am sure he can adjust easily.  ;-)

I hope your SO doesn't snore.  Snoring is very disruptive to the other person's sleep (i.e. you) and can cause long-term hearing loss.  Really bad snoring can be bad for everyone in nearby rooms as well, I have been a guest at homes where the snoring could be heard clearly in other rooms.  I know someone who borrowed a decibel meter to find out how bad her husband's snoring was.  It was bad, the reading persuaded him to go see an ENT specialist.

Yes, some of the above is serious and some is in jest.  Serious about the chocolate and garlic and onions (and grapes).  And semi-serious pointing out that he may be bringing behaviours that need coping with as well.  I trust he acknowledges that?

The decision is to hold off on moving in together for now, while making a few compromises in the meantime at his place and mine. If those work out, then things should hopefully work out well in the long-term. The compromises are:

-having the dog not sleep in the bedroom. She's still allowed in the bedroom and on the bed at any other time, just not at bedtime since some of the noises she makes can be a bit disruptive to sleep. I'm used to it and can sleep through it, but I can accept that not everyone can. 
-having the dog not sit or lay down underneath or right by the table during people mealtimes.  She doesn't beg for food, but I haven't trained her not to go for food that drops on the ground. I'm working on it, but in the meantime, this compromise seems to work.

Those are pretty much it. I did agree that should we move in together in the future, that I'd be ok with keeping her away from the bedrooms/kitchen and away from the table during people mealtimes. I feel like those are already pretty big concessions on my part.  We had a pretty serious discussion about this earlier in which I basically did say that these were the only concessions I'd make, and if he wasn't ok with them, that the relationship wasn't going to work regardless.  He agreed to the compromises. So we'll see how things go. 

Oddly enough, he really likes the cats and considers then to be really clean, as pets go. Go figure.

[Cassie]

I hope that it works out and doesn't require more compromises. Even old dogs can learn new tricks:)) I inherited my son's big old dog and he always let him sleep with him. We don't because I am allergic to him so don't want him in our bed. I bought him a big bed and put it next to ours. It took about a week before he quit jumping in our bed.  My son never let him lay under the table while we ate-I don't mind so I let him do it. The point is that he will learn what you want and if he is still spending a lot of time with the family it should be okay.  If your SO gets increasingly demanding then that will be another issue. Plus you are putting up with his kids and they are more trouble than pets.

[sunnyca]

I thought I'd give everyone here an update on the situation. 

It's over.  He got upset with me one day, and wanted me to leave his place.  When I tried to talk to him and calm him down, he got more upset, and started kicking my dog (who was just standing there), to encourage me to leave.  What makes it worse is that he didn't even apologize, since in his view, he did nothing wrong since "he didn't kick her that hard."  When I asked him how he would feel if I kicked his kids, he responded by saying, "that's completely different.  One's a crime, and the other isn't."

Sigh.

[onlykelsey]

That is unbelievably awful. 

Also they are both crimes everywhere I've lived... I think he's right that kicking children is WORSE, but they are both inappropriate and illegal.

[JLee]

I thought I'd give everyone here an update on the situation. 

It's over.  He got upset with me one day, and wanted me to leave his place.  When I tried to talk to him and calm him down, he got more upset, and started kicking my dog (who was just standing there), to encourage me to leave.  What makes it worse is that he didn't even apologize, since in his view, he did nothing wrong since "he didn't kick her that hard."  When I asked him how he would feel if I kicked his kids, he responded by saying, "that's completely different.  One's a crime, and the other isn't."

Sigh.

Oh wow. Yeah, it's time to GTFO!

[Cassie]

I am so sorry but glad you found out now before investing more time. Kicking an animal is horrible and a decent person would not do it.

[cheddarpie]

Oh my god. So awful. I am so sorry for you that you are in this situation but so proud of you for leaving. If he kicks a dog, he will kick you. My sister has been in an abusive relationship for 20 years and it only gets worse. There is no question this is the right decision -- you are smart and strong and deserve much better.

[Pigeon]

You dodged a bullet.  He sounds completely unstable.  One day he's kicking the dog, the next day it's you.

[sunnyca]

That is unbelievably awful. 

Also they are both crimes everywhere I've lived... I think he's right that kicking children is WORSE, but they are both inappropriate and illegal.

Oh, I agree that kicking children is worse.  I also think that people shouldn't do either.  But the part that I just can't wrap my head around is the fact that he doesn't even think kicking a defenseless animal is something worth apologizing for. 

[doggyfizzle]

sunnyca, you dodged a bullet.  I'd give up my wife before I give up my Aussie (and it almost came to that when she was a puppy).  It might suck now during the breakup, but it will be worth it when you meet someone who likes dogs as much as you do. 

[GuitarStv]

Fuck that guy.

[JLee]

That is unbelievably awful. 

Also they are both crimes everywhere I've lived... I think he's right that kicking children is WORSE, but they are both inappropriate and illegal.

Oh, I agree that kicking children is worse.  I also think that people shouldn't do either.  But the part that I just can't wrap my head around is the fact that he doesn't even think kicking a defenseless animal is something worth apologizing for.

Domestic abuse waiting to happen, IMO.  It's a sign of things to come, and behavior like that typically only escalates.

[LeRainDrop]

Oh my god, that is terrible behavior!  I'm very sorry to hear this.  Count your blessings that you have the strength to draw the line at this point and not let it get any worse.  People who would willingly harm an animal are sick and pose a substantial risk of escalating their abuse towards other people.  Yes, even kicking a non-attacking dog counts as animal abuse/cruelty.  I'm just going to leave this informational brochure here:  http://nationallinkcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/LinkSummaryBrochure3-panel.pdf

[MicroRN]

Yikes, I'm sorry that happened.  I'd wondered a couple times how everything had turned out. 

[pbkmaine]

People who hurt animals are very likely to escalate to hurting other people. I am very relieved that this man is out of your life and that you and your sweet dog are safe. Please, I beg you, do not go back.

[Squirrel away]

Fuck that guy.

+1. He sounds like a total c**t. It might be different in the UK, but I would have reported that incident to the police.

[former player]

Fuck that guy.

+1. He sounds like a total c**t. It might be different in the UK, but I would have reported that incident to the police.

Agreed, particularly as he has 50% custody of his kids.  Having a record of having been reported to the police for violence might help those kids if there are abuse problems in the future.

[RetiredAt63]

All the above, plus he did it *casually* in front of you - of course, to get you to leave his place.  Well it certainly worked, you have left his place - for good.  Good for you.

[AZDude]

Damn, I was reading through the thread and was about the defend the guy for what sounded like reasonable things to me(keeping dog off the bed, out of the kitchen, mostly outside during good weather), but kicking the dog to get at you? That is disturbing and wrong. Depending on how hard he kicked, maybe you should contact the police.

I'm sorry it came down to that, but there are plenty of non-assholes out there. You can find one.

[elaine amj]

I'm so very sorry to hear this update! That shows an awful lot about his character.

I was originally going to say that compromise is normal in any relationship and that your dog can certainly learn to live with different restrictions, but that it would be important for him to wholeheartedly accept the dog and everything that comes with owning a dog. Sounds like that's DEFINITELY not the case with this guy no matter what lip service he paid to the "compromise".

[SeanMC]

I'm sorry to hear this happened.

It probably IS criminal/illegal, but I would weigh carefully whether to report this or go to the police (which some people here have suggested). My sense is that you are best with him out of your life. I'd actually be worried that if you did report him, something bad might "happen" to your dog as retaliation from someone who is unstable and remorseless about abusing animals.

[pbkmaine]

I'm sorry to hear this happened.

It probably IS criminal/illegal, but I would weigh carefully whether to report this or go to the police (which some people here have suggested). My sense is that you are best with him out of your life. I'd actually be worried that if you did report him, something bad might "happen" to your dog as retaliation from someone who is unstable and remorseless about abusing animals.

Agree.

[iris lily]

I am wondering how long you knew this guy, and what signs you saw to hint at future behavior. Consider that for your next Relationship.

Personally, I can't imagine myself with a 3and 5 year old taking on someone else and more responsibility, unless I saw the other person as Someone who would be shouldering the burden of hosehold and childcare. Small children that age consume all resources, they are exhausting, well te three year old anyway.

Kicking the dog, unbelievable.

[goldensam]

Fuck that guy.

This. Seriously fuck that guy.

[goldensam]

I was reading through the thread, prepared to reply that I've been very clear in the past when dating and even now with a live-in partner that if I am ever asked to choose between my dog and a man, I choose my dog every time. She has free run of the house and can sleep on whichever bed/couch/dog bed/whatever she wants.

But then I read your post saying he kicked your dog. I cannot imagine what I would do if someone kicked my dog but I guarantee I would need bail money.

[RetiredAt63]

Priorities - when I left Ex-DH I took the dog and cat. 

I was reading through the thread, prepared to reply that I've been very clear in the past when dating and even now with a live-in partner that if I am ever asked to choose between my dog and a man, I choose my dog every time. She has free run of the house and can sleep on whichever bed/couch/dog bed/whatever she wants.

[MKinVA]

I'm so sorry to hear this. You need to never see him again. He could be d angerous. If he calls, you tell him he is lucky you don't report him. 50% visitation with his kids? It would be zero if you told the police and got a protective order. Please don't think I or others are overreacting. I had a boyfriend who was very upset about my getting a dog. We didn't live together and I really didn't have any intention of the relationship going any further than dating. My getting the dog without him must have gotten through to him. He came over one day and took my dog out of the yard and took him to the park And Let Him Go. It took me hours to find my dog and bring him home safe. That ex boyfriend became a stalker and it took me a couple of years to completely get rid of him. Please protect yourself. Don't ever see him again.

[Mr Dorothy Dollar]

So you accept his family of dealing with an ex-wife for split custody and unhygienic young children that are allowed run of the house. Yet it is unreasonable for him to accept a dog with 8 years of life left getting run of the house and a cat? This guy has the my crap don't stink syndrome. I would run for the hills. I bet there are many more issues where his crap does not stink but your crap is unbearable.

[arebelspy]

Just read the whole thread.

When I saw the word "wanted to update" I didn't think it would be good, but it was so much worse than I thought.  At least he hadn't moved in yet.  That would have been even worse.

I'm sorry, sunnyca.

Ending a relationship is hard, even when there's a clear reason.  Especially a relationship that was close to the "moving in" status. 

I hope you are doing well.

[sunnyca]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

To be honest, I'm not doing that great. He was in a temper when he kicked my dog, and he's extremely sorry now.  And it's hard, because I do still love him, and his kids, and in a way, I do want to give him another chance. I know it's probably the wrong thing to do, and I'm afraid that he'll do something like that again, but... I don't know.

[arebelspy]

Relationships are complicated.  Emotions even more so.

I'm sure you'll get many people saying don't consider it, but if you do, my only thought would be that you should set clear boundaries/guidelines.

Make it clear the dog restrictions aren't happening (ever).  And push back that "move in" time.  Way back.  Until you see major progress on the anger issues.

Either way, good luck.  We're rooting for you!