Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 497959 times)

bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2650 on: March 09, 2017, 02:57:15 PM »
From the President who won the biggest electoral win since Reagan, and also won the popular vote, and also has evidence that Obama wiretapped his phones but won't give anyone said evidence, we now have his EPA head claiming that the primary cause of global warming is definitely not CO2. He found 3 scientists and 19 oil and gas executives to back him up.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/scott-pruitt-global-warming-human/index.html

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2651 on: March 09, 2017, 03:28:21 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/donald-trump-compromise-poll/index.html

New effect of Trump presidency: more people are talking politics regularly with friends and family. And 70% of those polled wish that Democrats would compromise with the Trump administration to pass bills (aligning with similar numbers of respondents hoping for bi-partisan support of legislation. )

It's worth noting that more people surveyed indicated that they want Trump to compromise than wanting Democrats to compromise.

Rounding one number up, the other down, and changing "they'd like President Donald Trump to attempt to reach bipartisan compromise on bills" to a generic "hoping for bi-partisan support of legislation" is misleading at best.
The numbers are well within the margin of error. One can't accurately say that "More people" want one option or the other; one can say that the overwhelming majority of wish for compromise and not party-line obstruction of the POTUS. Which is what I found intersting considering many of his current proposals.

bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2652 on: March 09, 2017, 03:45:54 PM »
The numbers are well within the margin of error. One can't accurately say that "More people" want one option or the other; one can say that the overwhelming majority of wish for compromise and not party-line obstruction of the POTUS. Which is what I found intersting considering many of his current proposals.

Wrong. The overwhelming majority wish for compromise and for Trump to make bipartisan deals with the Democrats.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2653 on: March 09, 2017, 03:56:26 PM »
The numbers are well within the margin of error. One can't accurately say that "More people" want one option or the other; one can say that the overwhelming majority of wish for compromise and not party-line obstruction of the POTUS. Which is what I found intersting considering many of his current proposals.

Wrong. The overwhelming majority wish for compromise and for Trump to make bipartisan deals with the Democrats.


Yes; for Democrats to compromise with Trump, and for  "Trump to attempt to reach bipartisan compromise on bills he tries to get through Congress."

bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2654 on: March 09, 2017, 04:00:48 PM »
The numbers are well within the margin of error. One can't accurately say that "More people" want one option or the other; one can say that the overwhelming majority of wish for compromise and not party-line obstruction of the POTUS. Which is what I found intersting considering many of his current proposals.

Wrong. The overwhelming majority wish for compromise and for Trump to make bipartisan deals with the Democrats.


Yes; for Democrats to compromise with Trump, and for  "Trump to attempt to reach bipartisan compromise on bills he tries to get through Congress."

Exactly. Now why didn't you write that in the first place?

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2655 on: March 09, 2017, 04:05:14 PM »
The numbers are well within the margin of error. One can't accurately say that "More people" want one option or the other; one can say that the overwhelming majority of wish for compromise and not party-line obstruction of the POTUS. Which is what I found intersting considering many of his current proposals.

Wrong. The overwhelming majority wish for compromise and for Trump to make bipartisan deals with the Democrats.


Yes; for Democrats to compromise with Trump, and for  "Trump to attempt to reach bipartisan compromise on bills he tries to get through Congress."

Exactly. Now why didn't you write that in the first place?

So, where is the room to compromise on things like:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/861 
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/899

Meeting in the middle on this is still beyond the pale.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2656 on: March 09, 2017, 04:05:51 PM »
They are substantially the same thing. I'm sorry if you didnt like the wording of "bi partisan support of legislation" versus " reach bipartisan compromise on bills he tries to get through Congress."

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2657 on: March 09, 2017, 04:11:44 PM »
Short term we are seeing a stronger US dollar. Medium term if we get a border adjustment tax and infrastructure spending we will see an even stronger dollar.

Long term it may or may not be a mess (immigration, tax cuts, nepotism, oligarchy, etc).

I'm taking my dollars and buying stocks, Euros, and Pounds. Since I eventually want to relocate to Europe it may actually work out for me.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2658 on: March 09, 2017, 04:11:49 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/donald-trump-compromise-poll/index.html

New effect of Trump presidency: more people are talking politics regularly with friends and family. And 70% of those polled wish that Democrats would compromise with the Trump administration to pass bills (aligning with similar numbers of respondents hoping for bi-partisan support of legislation. )

Funny that you failed to mention that poll says that more people want trunp to compromise with democrats than want democrats to compromise with trump.  Your post suggests you do not think that these are the same thing.

You also cited "more people are talking" as if it was a good thing, despite the article highlighting that most people find this increased discussion stressful and are actively trying to find ways to cut back.

I swear MM, it's like every time you post you are deliberately trying to twist the truth.  At first i thought you were just a die hard partisan hack with a distorted world view, but now I'm leaning towards mischievous troll who is actively trying to degrade the forums by clouding our honest discussions with deliberately false information.
What the hell are you trolling about? I posted a link to a cnn poll; I made no value judgements on political discourse.  If you colored that part of my post, that is your own bias, and a clear reaction to differing views from your own which you seem to imagine is some sort of attack on the forum.

If you think CNN polls are false news, then please argue that; most rational people feel they are a legitimate news source, if not perfectly bias free. As such, I  doubt many people would agree with your assertion this is "false information."
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 04:17:58 PM by Metric Mouse »

bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2659 on: March 09, 2017, 04:14:26 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/donald-trump-compromise-poll/index.html

New effect of Trump presidency: more people are talking politics regularly with friends and family. And 73% of those polled wish that Trump would get bipartisan support to pass bills (aligning with similar numbers of respondents hoping for compromise with new legislation.)

bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2660 on: March 09, 2017, 04:17:24 PM »
Yes; for Democrats to compromise with Trump, and for  "Trump to attempt to reach bipartisan compromise on bills he tries to get through Congress."

Exactly. Now why didn't you write that in the first place?

So, where is the room to compromise on things like:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/861 
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/899

Meeting in the middle on this is still beyond the pale.

Well, the poll stated that 69% wanted the Democrats to try to compromise with the President. Obviously, that won't happen a lot, especially in extreme cases.

That said, there are always crazy bills filed each session. It's time to worry when the committee takes them seriously.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2661 on: March 09, 2017, 04:17:34 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/08/politics/border-crossings-huge-drop-trump-tough-talk/index.html

Cnn reports that illegal southwest border crossings fell 40% last month, a steep drop compared to seasonal averages that normally see a 10% - 20% uptick in illegal crossing numbers.

bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2662 on: March 09, 2017, 04:19:24 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/08/politics/border-crossings-huge-drop-trump-tough-talk/index.html

Cnn reports that illegal southwest border crossings fell 40% last month, a steep drop compared to seasonal averages that normally see a 10% - 20% uptick in illegal crossing numbers.

Does this mean an actual, physical, wall isn't needed?

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2663 on: March 09, 2017, 04:29:17 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/08/politics/border-crossings-huge-drop-trump-tough-talk/index.html

Cnn reports that illegal southwest border crossings fell 40% last month, a steep drop compared to seasonal averages that normally see a 10% - 20% uptick in illegal crossing numbers.

Does this mean an actual, physical, wall isn't needed?
Sigh.... nothing less trollish or more substantive to add than this? The need for a wall was not addressed in this article nor by the report from the CBP office the article references.

bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2664 on: March 09, 2017, 04:33:39 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/08/politics/border-crossings-huge-drop-trump-tough-talk/index.html

Cnn reports that illegal southwest border crossings fell 40% last month, a steep drop compared to seasonal averages that normally see a 10% - 20% uptick in illegal crossing numbers.

Does this mean an actual, physical, wall isn't needed?
Sigh.... nothing less trollish or more substantive to add than this? The need for a wall was not addressed in this article nor by the report from the CBP office the article references.

Dude, relax. It was a joke.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2665 on: March 09, 2017, 04:51:30 PM »
Quote
Dude, relax. It was a joke.
That's like, your opinion man.

Glenstache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2666 on: March 09, 2017, 05:00:39 PM »
Quote
Dude, relax. It was a joke.
That's like, your opinion man.


Cressida

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2667 on: March 09, 2017, 05:57:34 PM »
I'm fascinated by all the bloggers and talking heads who notice that many Republicans have been critical of the AHCA, and then draw the conclusion that the AHCA won't pass. People: does your memory not stretch back less than a year ago, when you all said exactly the same thing about Trump being elected? I mean, getting Trump wrong was somewhat defensible. But after that result, I can't understand why anyone now thinks the Republicans won't fall in line on this.

Terrible health plan, here we come.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2668 on: March 09, 2017, 06:04:15 PM »
Quote
Dude, relax. It was a joke.
That's like, your opinion man.

:D much better than mine.

JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2669 on: March 09, 2017, 09:09:26 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/08/politics/border-crossings-huge-drop-trump-tough-talk/index.html

Cnn reports that illegal southwest border crossings fell 40% last month, a steep drop compared to seasonal averages that normally see a 10% - 20% uptick in illegal crossing numbers.

Does this mean an actual, physical, wall isn't needed?

The article specifies that those numbers were people "presenting at the border," not illegal crossings outside of designated areas (which would be awfully difficult to track).

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2670 on: March 10, 2017, 02:16:14 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/08/politics/border-crossings-huge-drop-trump-tough-talk/index.html

Cnn reports that illegal southwest border crossings fell 40% last month, a steep drop compared to seasonal averages that normally see a 10% - 20% uptick in illegal crossing numbers.

Does this mean an actual, physical, wall isn't needed?

The article specifies that those numbers were people "presenting at the border," not illegal crossings outside of designated areas (which would be awfully difficult to track).
Yes, apprehensions at the border are down. This could mean that more people are sneaking in other ways, or the CBP is getting lazy and allowing more people through or that fewer people are crossing (very specifically families and unescorted children, according to the article.) Take your pick of reasons, but the drastic drop, far outside of seasonal norms over the last 17 years, and changes in demographics of the illegal immigrants who are caught suggest the last option much more strongly than the others.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2671 on: March 11, 2017, 05:17:58 AM »
One of the realistic impacts of a Trump Presidency is apparently that you appoint a foreign agent as National Security Adviser.  Either knowingly (which must be treasonous) or unknowingly (which demonstates staggering incompetence).

How much longer before both Trump and Pence are ushered out of the White House and into prison?

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2672 on: March 11, 2017, 05:20:12 AM »
One of the realistic impacts of a Trump Presidency is apparently that you appoint a foreign agent as National Security Adviser.  Either knowingly (which must be treasonous) or unknowingly (which demonstates staggering incompetence).

How much longer before both Trump and Pence are ushered out of the White House and into prison?
Does that mean Ryan becomes president?

former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2673 on: March 11, 2017, 06:12:19 AM »
One of the realistic impacts of a Trump Presidency is apparently that you appoint a foreign agent as National Security Adviser.  Either knowingly (which must be treasonous) or unknowingly (which demonstates staggering incompetence).

How much longer before both Trump and Pence are ushered out of the White House and into prison?
Does that mean Ryan becomes president?
I'm not sure how, if at all, the USA's much-vaunted constitution is going to come into play here.  Trump has just sacked 46 Federal prosecutors without having replacements even nominated to take their places.  Including sacking the chief New York prosecutor whose jurisdiction includes the Trump organisation, despite having previously specifically asked him to stay on.

In any other country (Russia, Turkey) I would say all this looked like the start of a coup.  I'm no longer certain that a coup is not happening in the USA.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2674 on: March 11, 2017, 06:50:06 AM »
One of the realistic impacts of a Trump Presidency is apparently that you appoint a foreign agent as National Security Adviser.  Either knowingly (which must be treasonous) or unknowingly (which demonstates staggering incompetence).

How much longer before both Trump and Pence are ushered out of the White House and into prison?
Does that mean Ryan becomes president?
I'm not sure how, if at all, the USA's much-vaunted constitution is going to come into play here.  Trump has just sacked 46 Federal prosecutors without having replacements even nominated to take their places.  Including sacking the chief New York prosecutor whose jurisdiction includes the Trump organisation, despite having previously specifically asked him to stay on.

In any other country (Russia, Turkey) I would say all this looked like the start of a coup.  I'm no longer certain that a coup is not happening in the USA.
You did read that this is a common occurance; most of these positions are replaced with every new administration.  This is not really a shocking development, and to informed persons, hardly any more of sign of a coup (can the party that was voted into power even perform a coup?) Than when Obama or Bush or Clinton replaced the same positions.

Of course it was handled with all the trademark delicacy of a bull on bath salts marching through a glass factory, but the actual removal of these people is not unprecedented in anyway.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2675 on: March 11, 2017, 07:17:01 AM »
You did read that this is a common occurance; most of these positions are replaced with every new administration.  This is not really a shocking development, and to informed persons, hardly any more of sign of a coup (can the party that was voted into power even perform a coup?) Than when Obama or Bush or Clinton replaced the same positions.

Of course it was handled with all the trademark delicacy of a bull on bath salts marching through a glass factory, but the actual removal of these people is not unprecedented in anyway.
It's the way it was handled that's the problem.  If I were suspicious (and frankly I'm suspicious of everything being done in the White House at the moment) I would say that the instant sacking of so many, without replacements nominated, was to cover the otherwise inexplicable sacking of the New York prosecutor who just a couple of months ago was personally asked to stay on by Trump and Sessions.  Why would Trump be afraid of a judicial investigation into his activities?  Why wouldn't he, with what is going on?  Now he can put his own placeman in the role and stop there being a judicial investigation into the Trump organisation and the Trump campaign.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2676 on: March 11, 2017, 07:26:30 AM »
Meh. I try to avoid suspicions of machinations when simple incompetence will explain.

I don't know much about Preet Bharara; what exactly would Trump stand to gain by sacking him in a "covered" manner as opposed to publicly? Seems since Trump kept the acting deputy attorney general and the man below him, so the leadership is still there more or less.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2677 on: March 11, 2017, 07:30:36 AM »
Meh. I try to avoid suspicions of machinations when simple incompetence will explain.

I don't know much about Preet Bharara; what exactly would Trump stand to gain by sacking him in a "covered" manner as opposed to publicly? Seems since Trump kept the acting deputy attorney general and the man below him, so the leadership is still there more or less.
The problem Trump is trying to cover up is his complete 180 in such a short period of time.  And whoever is appointed to the position, the people in the jobs underneath them will either have to obey orders or resign/be sacked, right?

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2678 on: March 11, 2017, 07:37:33 AM »
Meh. I try to avoid suspicions of machinations when simple incompetence will explain.

I don't know much about Preet Bharara; what exactly would Trump stand to gain by sacking him in a "covered" manner as opposed to publicly? Seems since Trump kept the acting deputy attorney general and the man below him, so the leadership is still there more or less.
The problem Trump is trying to cover up is his complete 180 in such a short period of time.  And whoever is appointed to the position, the people in the jobs underneath them will either have to obey orders or resign/be sacked, right?
Yeah, that's kinda how the government works at that level, I guess. Seems to have been the expectations in every other administration of the past few decades.

Just so I  understand, you are suggesting that Trump decided to sack Bharara, after allegedly telling Bharara that he wouldn't, and to cover it up, and for no other reason, he sacked a few dozen other people in the same department, merely to disguise the fact that he fired Bhahara?

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2679 on: March 11, 2017, 07:41:20 AM »
Meh. I try to avoid suspicions of machinations when simple incompetence will explain.

I don't know much about Preet Bharara; what exactly would Trump stand to gain by sacking him in a "covered" manner as opposed to publicly? Seems since Trump kept the acting deputy attorney general and the man below him, so the leadership is still there more or less.
The problem Trump is trying to cover up is his complete 180 in such a short period of time.  And whoever is appointed to the position, the people in the jobs underneath them will either have to obey orders or resign/be sacked, right?
Yeah, that's kinda how the government works at that level, I guess. Seems to have been the expectations in every other administration of the past few decades.

Just so I  understand, you are suggesting that Trump decided to sack Bharara, after allegedly telling Bharara that he wouldn't, and to cover it up, and for no other reason, he sacked a few dozen other people in the same department, merely to disguise the fact that he fired Bhahara?
Yes.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2680 on: March 11, 2017, 07:53:22 AM »
Meh. I try to avoid suspicions of machinations when simple incompetence will explain.

I don't know much about Preet Bharara; what exactly would Trump stand to gain by sacking him in a "covered" manner as opposed to publicly? Seems since Trump kept the acting deputy attorney general and the man below him, so the leadership is still there more or less.
The problem Trump is trying to cover up is his complete 180 in such a short period of time.  And whoever is appointed to the position, the people in the jobs underneath them will either have to obey orders or resign/be sacked, right?
Yeah, that's kinda how the government works at that level, I guess. Seems to have been the expectations in every other administration of the past few decades.

Just so I  understand, you are suggesting that Trump decided to sack Bharara, after allegedly telling Bharara that he wouldn't, and to cover it up, and for no other reason, he sacked a few dozen other people in the same department, merely to disguise the fact that he fired Bhahara?
Yes.
Thank you for clarification.  This is an interesting theory.

vern

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2681 on: March 11, 2017, 03:29:16 PM »

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2682 on: March 12, 2017, 03:41:47 AM »
Yes, but none of them were the Preet Bharara
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 08:28:18 AM by Metric Mouse »

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2683 on: March 12, 2017, 08:20:04 AM »
Funny thing that I hadn't considered, I'm in China and typed in Donald Trump just to see what material would come up.  Here is the result

jim555

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2684 on: March 13, 2017, 12:55:42 AM »
Trump and email:
"His idea of efficiency is I would send him emails, his assistant would print it, he would write on it, and he would scan it," Cuban said. "He doesn't know how to use email."

LOL. 
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/12/mark-cuban-on-donald-trump-hes-the-zoolander-president.html

dividendman

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2685 on: March 15, 2017, 05:16:12 PM »
It looks like another two impacts of the Trump presidency are:

1) the number of unconstitutional executive actions he's going to take... travel ban #2 struck down
2) Dutch election populist guy did worse than expected... could it be that people are seeing Trump and don't want right-wing pseudo populists running their country?


NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2686 on: March 16, 2017, 06:25:23 AM »
It looks like another two impacts of the Trump presidency are:

1) the number of unconstitutional executive actions he's going to take... travel ban #2 struck down
2) Dutch election populist guy did worse than expected... could it be that people are seeing Trump and don't want right-wing pseudo populists running their country?

Travel Ban 2.0 has only been suspended pending formal litigation. It isn't a ruling on the constitutionality.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2687 on: March 16, 2017, 03:15:13 PM »
It looks like another two impacts of the Trump presidency are:

1) the number of unconstitutional executive actions he's going to take... travel ban #2 struck down
2) Dutch election populist guy did worse than expected... could it be that people are seeing Trump and don't want right-wing pseudo populists running their country?

About 2: it has something to do with seeing Trump and Brexit, sure. It also has something (if not more) to do with a certain Turkish president that is behaving quite rude lately, causing some upheaval because he wasn't allowed to do propaganda activities in the NL for his Turkish referendum. Which in turn gave the prime minister a chance to act to that, and thus gain some popularity for "standing up to Turkey" just days prior to the elections. Prime minister still lost votes, but not as many as was feared. Populist-guy won, but not as much as predicted. However it is (and was, even prior to this Turkey business) certain that the Populist (that is, Wilders) would and will not be part of the government, as none of the other parties is willing to work with him.
I did my best; I voted for the Greens. Who might be in government... we'll know in about 6 months :-P

acroy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2688 on: March 16, 2017, 04:17:01 PM »
The Onion could run this again as new news (with a few name changes)
http://www.theonion.com/article/nations-liberals-suffering-from-outrage-fatigue-1190

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2689 on: March 16, 2017, 04:34:53 PM »
The Onion could run this again as new news (with a few name changes)
http://www.theonion.com/article/nations-liberals-suffering-from-outrage-fatigue-1190

I like how conservatives focus on the outrage, rather than on the outrageous.

Glenstache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2690 on: March 16, 2017, 04:38:39 PM »
The Onion could run this again as new news (with a few name changes)
http://www.theonion.com/article/nations-liberals-suffering-from-outrage-fatigue-1190

I like how conservatives focus on the outrage, rather than on the outrageous.
I can't believe how few conservatives are outraged by most of what Trump is doing. He's no true conservative, and is clearly following through on Bannon's vision of deconstructing the administrative state.

RangerOne

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2691 on: March 16, 2017, 05:43:06 PM »
The Onion could run this again as new news (with a few name changes)
http://www.theonion.com/article/nations-liberals-suffering-from-outrage-fatigue-1190

I like how conservatives focus on the outrage, rather than on the outrageous.
I can't believe how few conservatives are outraged by most of what Trump is doing. He's no true conservative, and is clearly following through on Bannon's vision of deconstructing the administrative state.

Some well versed conservatives are probably happy to go along with him still simply because he is mostly doing things they want. Putting forth a mandate to slash fed spending, returning more power to states. Cutting taxes in the ACA and in general. Doubling down against immigration, especially of unfavorable minorities. The budget is statement is basically through and through Republican. Cut every federal program and increase defense spending. Goes right in line with those who think the only major function of the fed should be defense. Leave the rest to the states...

Its reasonably clear from polling and just talking to an average person who doesn't think much about politics that people are so entrenched that they will view anything their chosen candidate does in a favorable light and discount all detractors.

I get that a lot of conservatives think we are crazy for putting too much stock in man made climate change, but I am curious what some more thoughtful conservatives think about the gutting of the EPA, and what they would thing about its complete elimination.

It seems from a cursory analysis that we already know what the US looks like with no EPA and it we ditch we will likely have to crawl back to a similar program in a few decades after a handful of states go all out and render their industrial regions unlivable and the while draining jobs from reasonably regulated states.

boy_bye

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2692 on: March 16, 2017, 06:11:32 PM »
It seems from a cursory analysis that we already know what the US looks like with no EPA and it we ditch we will likely have to crawl back to a similar program in a few decades after a handful of states go all out and render their industrial regions unlivable and the while draining jobs from reasonably regulated states.

That's what really gets me about all these changes -- it's *completely predictable* what will happen without regulatory agencies. We know what the consequences are -- that's why we created the agencies! And yet so many people and animals and ecosystems will suffer and die because of it. It's so fucking dumb.

sol

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2693 on: March 16, 2017, 07:12:31 PM »
And yet so many people and animals and ecosystems will suffer and die because of it. It's so fucking dumb.

Yes but think of the profits!

The republican party doesn't care about animals or ecosystems, just like it doesn't care about healthcare or poor people.  It only cares about corporate profits.

MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2694 on: March 17, 2017, 05:13:17 AM »
And yet so many people and animals and ecosystems will suffer and die because of it. It's so fucking dumb.

Yes but think of the profits!

The republican party doesn't care about animals or ecosystems, just like it doesn't care about healthcare or poor people.  It only cares about corporate profits.

And the free markets. You know to buy gas mask and all.

gaja

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2695 on: March 17, 2017, 05:39:19 AM »
And yet so many people and animals and ecosystems will suffer and die because of it. It's so fucking dumb.

Yes but think of the profits!

The republican party doesn't care about animals or ecosystems, just like it doesn't care about healthcare or poor people.  It only cares about corporate profits.
I thougth the invisible hand and free market was going to take care of all that? If we just get people to use their purchase power to choose to buy from corporations who treat the animals nicely, all the bad and greedy corporations will go bankrupt, and only the nice ones will remain. It is the governments regulations that are causing pollution, with all the paper forms,  and horrible regulations that prevent the corporations from choosing the really environmental friendly solutions. Like cars that run on H20, fusion reactors, etc.

/sarcasm

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2696 on: March 17, 2017, 07:59:33 AM »
And yet so many people and animals and ecosystems will suffer and die because of it. It's so fucking dumb.

Yes but think of the profits!

The republican party doesn't care about animals or ecosystems, just like it doesn't care about healthcare or poor people.  It only cares about corporate profits.

They used to have the facade of compassionate conservatism.  Now we have Mulvaney explaining how it is compassionate to cut Meals on Wheels.   

former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2697 on: March 17, 2017, 08:15:37 AM »
According to Spicer, apparently President Obama didn't want to ask any of his own 17 security agencies to spy on Trump so he asked the Brits to do it instead.

I'm trying to work out his channels for doing this.  Did he call up the British Ambassador in Washington to relay the request?  That would have been a breach of protocol: he should have asked the Secretary of State to make the call.  Or did Obama find out the telephone number for GCHQ (you can look it up on line) and call direct?  "Hello, President Obama of the USA here, can you wiretap Donald Trump in Trump Tower and send me the transcripts?"

No, I'm at a loss.

Inaya

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2698 on: March 17, 2017, 09:13:48 AM »
So the Trump administration is literally getting its "intelligence" from Fox and Breitbart now, while shunning actual intelligence. I can't even...

Just Joe

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #2699 on: March 17, 2017, 09:30:42 AM »
So what will Trump do in case of a very real emergency? He throws fictional allegations around left and right. What happens in a real crisis defined by real facts offered by intelligence agencies he rejects?