Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 365740 times)

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1750 on: February 06, 2017, 06:16:18 PM »
What reports from Lockheed? This seems to pretty clearly show this all started before the election:

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/03/trumps-claims-of-saving-millions-on-f-35-fighter-untrue-says-armed-services-committee-dem.html

Not super comprehensive, but then neither are Trump's claims of any of the things he's taking credit for.
I guess I was just going off what Marillyn Hewson, Lockheed CEO has tweeted and said in statements since meeting with Donald Trump in December.  I wouldn't base much off what Trump claims, but if the other party backs it up, there may be some truth.

Quote
“I’ve heard his message loud and clear about reducing the cost of the F-35,” Hewson said in a statement. “I gave him my personal commitment to drive the cost down aggressively.”

Quote
Lockheed Martin credited President Donald Trump for helping to "accelerate negotiations" and "drive down the price" of what is already the most expensive weapons program in history.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 06:23:39 PM by Metric Mouse »
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1751 on: February 06, 2017, 06:18:21 PM »

I read through most of the article and I could see someone like Bannon taking us in both good and bad directions. He is obviously intelligent and very historically aware, though I wouldn't confuse that with being correct about all his assertions.

I'm not getting the "very historically aware" vibe from him.  All his ideas seem to spring from some sort of idealisation of his parents' generation and from a USA point of view.  That's a dangerously limited set of information on which to try to remake the world - if he knew more, he would do less.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1752 on: February 06, 2017, 06:18:43 PM »
Trump reads at a 4th grade level so that is why he signs EOs and doesn't know what is in them.


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sol

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1753 on: February 06, 2017, 06:40:31 PM »
(possibly religiously guided) should be the tools we use to define morals and social constructs. Some good Judeo-christian values are certainly a strong part of current Western culture

I feel compelled to point out that "good Judeo-Christian values" have been with us a lot longer than either Judaism or Christianity.  Don't make the mistake of believing that humanity was immoral before the Old Testament came along.

Advocating for those values does not in any way require the participation of any religion.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 07:22:07 PM by sol »
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Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1754 on: February 06, 2017, 06:44:58 PM »
Sydneystache - the rest of us don't want any part of a Trumpian war either. :( God, I really hope it doesn't come to that.
Please ignore acroy's sad view of international relations. The rest of us aren't thinking of our allies and friends as merely pawns on a giant world chessboard, because that's a pathetic way to view the rest of humanity. Most of us are decent people, I promise. Apologize loudly on our behalf to anyone who will listen. Most of us voted against the Trumpsterfire. We're trying to limit the damage as much as we can!

No need to apologise over your numpties. Glad acroy is not working for your State Department and berating his/her Australian equivalent as irrelevant. We are living in the age of #trumpdiplomacy after all.

What was amazing was our main newspaper printed all these apologies from Yanks on behalf of your prez the day after. John McCain's gesture was lovely - I have read a lot of pro-Trumpies decrying him but you know what, McCain knew what happened in Vietnam (Trump couldn't serve because of ---) and he knew our history. So McCain is a lightning rod for Aussies who still believe there are sane American politicians with foreign policy interest.

I'm sure the diplomatic lines are working overnight here but the has damage been done. Australia is thinking post-Trump. Bye bye pax americana.

As our former PM Rudd said, our alliance is ugly enough to overcome this snafu but what a big snafu. According to insiders, Turnbull's phone call was to gauge how unhinged Trump is...and clearly he totally is. That and he is Putin's Manchurian candidate.

The big problem for the US here is China is loving this chaos and they're the ones who are going to win the region over with soft power. It is hard to defend America with Trump in power.

Trump's attack on the fourth estate is resonating with China with its bigger propaganda piece. So yes, it's now president-sanctioned to shut the media with fake news. On the bright side, the UK House of Commons today don't want Trumpie speaking.

Anyway, best of luck y'all and we just wonder how the world will survive the next 4 years!

Has there been any mounting internal pressure on the government from citizens of Australia to allow these refugees asylum into the country? It sucks that America won't take them, I wonder if the story has ramped up any efforts to stop the AUS gov. from holding these people prisoner?
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1755 on: February 06, 2017, 06:51:48 PM »
Sydneystache - the rest of us don't want any part of a Trumpian war either. :( God, I really hope it doesn't come to that.
Please ignore acroy's sad view of international relations. The rest of us aren't thinking of our allies and friends as merely pawns on a giant world chessboard, because that's a pathetic way to view the rest of humanity. Most of us are decent people, I promise. Apologize loudly on our behalf to anyone who will listen. Most of us voted against the Trumpsterfire. We're trying to limit the damage as much as we can!

No need to apologise over your numpties. Glad acroy is not working for your State Department and berating his/her Australian equivalent as irrelevant. We are living in the age of #trumpdiplomacy after all.

What was amazing was our main newspaper printed all these apologies from Yanks on behalf of your prez the day after. John McCain's gesture was lovely - I have read a lot of pro-Trumpies decrying him but you know what, McCain knew what happened in Vietnam (Trump couldn't serve because of ---) and he knew our history. So McCain is a lightning rod for Aussies who still believe there are sane American politicians with foreign policy interest.

I'm sure the diplomatic lines are working overnight here but the has damage been done. Australia is thinking post-Trump. Bye bye pax americana.

As our former PM Rudd said, our alliance is ugly enough to overcome this snafu but what a big snafu. According to insiders, Turnbull's phone call was to gauge how unhinged Trump is...and clearly he totally is. That and he is Putin's Manchurian candidate.

The big problem for the US here is China is loving this chaos and they're the ones who are going to win the region over with soft power. It is hard to defend America with Trump in power.

Trump's attack on the fourth estate is resonating with China with its bigger propaganda piece. So yes, it's now president-sanctioned to shut the media with fake news. On the bright side, the UK House of Commons today don't want Trumpie speaking.

Anyway, best of luck y'all and we just wonder how the world will survive the next 4 years!

Has there been any mounting internal pressure on the government from citizens of Australia to allow these refugees asylum into the country? It sucks that America won't take them, I wonder if the story has ramped up any efforts to stop the AUS gov. from holding these people prisoner?


Yes, of course. No one I have talked to at all supports the deal. See #bringthemhome

Legacy of previous admins that decided to have all these offshore detention centres instead of processing them on Australian soil. If Trump honours the deal, the reffos would probably be sent to Gitmo.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1756 on: February 06, 2017, 07:04:51 PM »
I guess I was just going off what Marillyn Hewson, Lockheed CEO has tweeted and said in statements since meeting with Donald Trump in December.  I wouldn't base much off what Trump claims, but if the other party backs it up, there may be some truth.

Quote
“I’ve heard his message loud and clear about reducing the cost of the F-35,” Hewson said in a statement. “I gave him my personal commitment to drive the cost down aggressively.”

Quote
Lockheed Martin credited President Donald Trump for helping to "accelerate negotiations" and "drive down the price" of what is already the most expensive weapons program in history.

So the best we can surmise, even if we assume Hewson wasn't trying to suck up to someone who can send truckloads of money his way and take him at his exact words, is that Trump "accelerated" a process that was already happening. Color me unimpressed.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 07:58:29 PM by Lagom »

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1757 on: February 06, 2017, 07:27:47 PM »
Yes, of course. No one I have talked to at all supports the deal. See #bringthemhome

Legacy of previous admins that decided to have all these offshore detention centres instead of processing them on Australian soil. If Trump honours the deal, the reffos would probably be sent to Gitmo.
After reading the few reports out from Nauru that have slipped passed the government censors, I'm not sure Gitmo would be a significant downgrade.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1758 on: February 06, 2017, 07:39:18 PM »
I guess I was just going off what Marillyn Hewson, Lockheed CEO has tweeted and said in statements since meeting with Donald Trump in December.  I wouldn't base much off what Trump claims, but if the other party backs it up, there may be some truth.

Quote
“I’ve heard his message loud and clear about reducing the cost of the F-35,” Hewson said in a statement. “I gave him my personal commitment to drive the cost down aggressively.”

Quote
Lockheed Martin credited President Donald Trump for helping to "accelerate negotiations" and "drive down the price" of what is already the most expensive weapons program in history.

So the best we can surmise, even if we assume Hewson wasn't trying to suck up to someone who can send truckloads of money is way and take him at his exact words, is that Trump "accelerated" a process that was already happening. Color me unimpressed.
Meh. Some people are never happy. I try to take the good with the bad.


Speaking of more bad from internationl news for Trump: Pakistan arrests terrorist leaders, blames the USA and Trump. Hafiz Saeed arrested, the mastermind of the infamous 2008 Mumbai attacksPakistan blames the Trump administration for its actions.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1759 on: February 06, 2017, 08:17:09 PM »
I'm continuing my read of the Bannon article...
On Putin, Bannon points out correctly that Putin is a kleptocrat, but he admires his strategy of using nationalism and traditionalism to build his base (and we have seen that Bannon and Trump successfully used these in their playbook.)
While admitting that Putin is an imperial expansionist, Bannon feels that dealing with the Islamic caliphate is most important.

In the end, he says he believes we should take "a very, very, very aggressive stance against radical Islam," and that we are  already "in a war of immense proportions" for the survival of church and civilization. 

----

Okay. Very interesting. 
 The main questions I have are, if Bannon hates crony capitalists so much, why on earth is he so cozy with Trump and the GOP?  Also, does he propose to save us from the Islamic state by somehow triggering a global war?

It feels like he proposes fighting the enemy by assuming the properties of the enemy... government in bed with capitalists are the enemy, so... become the government, become the capitalist? Become nationalists with strong boundaries like Russia?
Fight ISIS, the religious would-be state, by becoming a religious state?

I still have an issue with his starting premise that Judeo-Christianity is the secret weapon that will save us from the caliphate. Well, yes, in that we might fight, win, and avoid being overrun by Muslims. But it doesn't do us much good if we become like Daesh in cruelty, intolerance, aggression, etc. does it?

Christ is love, acroy.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1760 on: February 06, 2017, 08:20:46 PM »
Furthermore, RangerOne had a very good analysis, in my POV:
Quote
Judeo-christian faiths are currently held in higher regard in Western nations because of their ability to peacefully coexists with secularism and other faiths not in spite of it. This gets at the very core of the separation of church and state, and that a nation can be based on a foundation not rooted in a single faith that is forced upon its people. To strongly believe otherwise is simply not very American.

Secularism, science, education, social freedom and capitalism are our greatest tools to help bring Muslims into the fold and moderate their religion into what judeo-christian faiths have become over millennia. Our only good choice is to continue to moderate their religion and remove the evil elements that are still practiced. The alternative is a bloody war to attempt to eradicate the faith.



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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1761 on: February 06, 2017, 08:22:15 PM »
I'm continuing my read of the Bannon article...
On Putin, Bannon points out correctly that Putin is a kleptocrat, but he admires his strategy of using nationalism and traditionalism to build his base (and we have seen that Bannon and Trump successfully used these in their playbook.)
While admitting that Putin is an imperial expansionist, Bannon feels that dealing with the Islamic caliphate is most important.

In the end, he says he believes we should take "a very, very, very aggressive stance against radical Islam," and that we are  already "in a war of immense proportions" for the survival of church and civilization. 

----

Okay. Very interesting. 
 The main questions I have are, if Bannon hates crony capitalists so much, why on earth is he so cozy with Trump and the GOP?  Also, does he propose to save us from the Islamic state by somehow triggering a global war?

It feels like he proposes fighting the enemy by assuming the properties of the enemy... government in bed with capitalists are the enemy, so... become the government, become the capitalist? Become nationalists with strong boundaries like Russia?
Fight ISIS, the religious would-be state, by becoming a religious state?

I still have an issue with his starting premise that Judeo-Christianity is the secret weapon that will save us from the caliphate. Well, yes, in that we might fight, win, and avoid being overrun by Muslims. But it doesn't do us much good if we become like Daesh in cruelty, intolerance, aggression, etc. does it?

Christ is love, acroy.

I have found trying to understand and follow Bannon's mental processes leaves me a little off-balance and sick to my stomach. I admire the effort and composure you are putting into this.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1762 on: February 06, 2017, 08:46:24 PM »
Well, I have never wanted to look closely at him before, but since he seems to be the power behind the throne, we have to steel ourselves and look into the abyss (to mix metaphors madly.)

I have further developed my thought below:
I still have an issue with his starting premise that Judeo-Christianity is the secret weapon that will save us from the caliphate. Well, yes, in that we might fight, win, and avoid being overrun by Muslims. But it doesn't do us much good if we become like Daesh in cruelty, intolerance, aggression, etc. does it?
Perhaps Judeo-Christianity is the secret weapon after all. But not in the way Bannon thinks.  Perhaps tolerance and understanding, as the children of the love that is preached in churches-- could conquer radical Islam in a generation.

Northern Ireland, after all, saw peace in our generation after decades of terrorism and guerilla warfare; an all-out war is not needed to tear everything down.


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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1763 on: February 06, 2017, 08:54:19 PM »
Well, I have never wanted to look closely at him before, but since he seems to be the power behind the throne, we have to steel ourselves and look into the abyss (to mix metaphors madly.)

I have further developed my thought below:
I still have an issue with his starting premise that Judeo-Christianity is the secret weapon that will save us from the caliphate. Well, yes, in that we might fight, win, and avoid being overrun by Muslims. But it doesn't do us much good if we become like Daesh in cruelty, intolerance, aggression, etc. does it?
Perhaps Judeo-Christianity is the secret weapon after all. But not in the way Bannon thinks.  Perhaps tolerance and understanding, as the children of the love that is preached in churches-- could conquer radical Islam in a generation.

Northern Ireland, after all, saw peace in our generation after decades of terrorism and guerilla warfare; an all-out war is not needed to tear everything down.

I posted this in another thread. Glenn Back would agree with you (and I with him in this instance). Worth a read for those who haven't seen it:

http://www.glennbeck.com/2017/02/02/both-the-uc-berkeley-anarchists-and-milo-yiannopoulos-are-despicable-but-i-stand-with-one/

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1764 on: February 06, 2017, 09:02:21 PM »
Meh. Some people are never happy. I try to take the good with the bad.

I'm perfectly happy with my life and think your philosophy is a fine one in general, but it will take a lot more than a pretty inconsequential "victory" that was going to happen with our without Trump for me to see this one random rounding error of a dent in our spending to be a silver lining.

My own hope for finding good in the bad is that Trump's pathological obsession with being adored eventually leads him to reject the deeply unsettling influence of Bannon (@acroy him being smart in no way reassures anyone) and actually listen to the majority of Americans.

I suppose some of the regulations he wants to end are bad ones, but others (re: net neutrality) are fundamentally important so its hard to take that good with the overwhelmingly worse bad either.

But hey, we're only in week 3...

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1765 on: February 06, 2017, 09:21:11 PM »
Furthermore, RangerOne had a very good analysis, in my POV:

I agree it's an outstanding analysis, but it's from about 2004 and we haven't done shit in that direction since then.

The national security apparatus spent approximately a billion dollars on trying to understand the root causes of 9/11 and then formulate a long term action plan to deal with those causes.  Their suggestion was exactly what RangerOne suggested, but none of that analysis was ever put into practice.  Quite the contrary, we have only continued to assist the radicalization of Islam over time.  Trump and Bannon are just the icing on that cake.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1766 on: February 06, 2017, 10:29:26 PM »
I'm glad he stopped TPP and hope he reforms NAFTA, since the invention of the internet, the ability of companies to outsource has make NAFTA a poor deal. Support and customer service jobs vanished. The USA is a net importer on Agriculture now since 2010. For the first time in our history, we buy more food than we make. Like just about every other civilized nation, we should use tarrifs on trade. I feel we have moral obligation to do so. our failure to do so has led to the subjugation and servitude of peoples globally, increased global emissions, and the loss of manufacturing and agriculture in America.  We owe it to a world to impose a tarrif on all nations imports to the USA that do not share our values. nations, that have no environmental law, no worker safety, no minimum wage or an artificially low one, no patent laws protection.  Imposing should tarriffs would have the affect of promoting those values, globally raising the bar, and your bring some manufacturing that is borderline profitable in the USA today back. Such as heavy industry and other items that are expensive to ship from china,and perishable items, such as agriculture. The USA cannot compete with third world manufacturing without tarriffs, except in jobs that can be heavily automated.

I couldn't believe your statement regarding the US being a net importer of agriculture; turns out, neither would the USDA:
https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/foreign-agricultural-trade-of-the-united-states-fatus/us-agricultural-trade-data-update/interactive-chart-us-monthly-agricultural-trade/

NAFTA's impact on net US employment levels is small (between zero and 850K net jobs lost), see for example:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/07/bernie-s/sanders-overshoots-nafta-job-losses/

TPP would have addressed some of the deficiencies you cited regarding consistency in IP regulation and environmental/labor standards. And from a geopolitical perspective, a successful ratification of TPP would have counterbalanced China's ascendancy through an increase in the US's soft-power by having established trade policy in their backyard; the presumption is if China takes the lead in setting the tone for multi-lateral trade deals in east Asia, the outcome will be worse for the US than the alternative of TPP.

Finally, the tariffs required to bring back the sort of manufacturing being romanticized in the current political environment would be so onerous as to cause a variety of currently extant global supply chains to collapse. Manufacturing in the US is increasingly automated and increasingly a high-skill activity. Why low-skill back-breaking or mind-addling assembly work as seen in China is fetishized as some ideal to strive for is hard to understand. The US has been successful by looking forward at what's next rather than looking backwards while choking back nostalgic tears.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1767 on: February 06, 2017, 11:02:57 PM »
According to the NYTimes article, Trump is pissed at Bannon over the EOs, especially the NSC one; this article might be falling into the trap of engaging in speculative Trumplinology but is nonetheless interesting in the power dynamics potentially at play:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/05/us/politics/trump-white-house-aides-strategy.html

Regarding Bannon, while it might be unwarranted to misunderestimate his intelligence simply because he always appears as if he just woke up from a drunken nap on top of a sidewalk grate, I am reminded of what Deep Throat said of Nixon's men during Watergate -- "...the truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand".

Bannon's comments on Islam are a mixed bag. On the one hand, it's hard to argue in the short- to medium-run that Islamic extremism, which kills fewer people in the US each year than anal beads (I assume), is the existential threat he depicts it to be. However, even an Economist magazine-carrying internationalist at-heart like myself recognizes that there are differences between cultures and that moreover, those differences can be judged on their merits. There is a good part of the Muslim world (though it pays to decouple the religion itself from the various cultures it is embedded within) that is illiberal, anti-reason, is deeply dysfunctional in its institutions, inferior in its morality, and is hostile towards the West.

While the US and (it seems to a much lesser extent) Europe has some capacity to gradually absorb immigrants from dysfunctional civilizations, there is a breaking point at which assimilation fails. The US is extraordinarily good at assimilation, so this argument might play out better in Europe (e.g. Identitarians).

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1768 on: February 06, 2017, 11:28:26 PM »
New Zealand has repeatedly offered to take some of the refugees detained by Australia on Nauru and Manus Island but the Aussies said no.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/307428/pm-stands-by-offer-to-take-150-asylum-seekers

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1769 on: February 06, 2017, 11:41:14 PM »
New Zealand has repeatedly offered to take some of the refugees detained by Australia on Nauru and Manus Island but the Aussies said no.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/307428/pm-stands-by-offer-to-take-150-asylum-seekers

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1770 on: February 06, 2017, 11:44:48 PM »
Quote
TPP would have addressed some of the deficiencies you cited regarding consistency in IP regulation and environmental/labor standards. And from a geopolitical perspective, a successful ratification of TPP would have counterbalanced China's ascendancy through an increase in the US's soft-power by having established trade policy in their backyard; the presumption is if China takes the lead in setting the tone for multi-lateral trade deals in east Asia, the outcome will be worse for the US than the alternative of TPP.

Already in the works - Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Comprehensive_Economic_Partnership

Also, China's Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank to counter the World Bank
https://www.aiib.org/en/index.html

Quote
Finally, the tariffs required to bring back the sort of manufacturing being romanticized in the current political environment would be so onerous as to cause a variety of currently extant global supply chains to collapse. Manufacturing in the US is increasingly automated and increasingly a high-skill activity. Why low-skill back-breaking or mind-addling assembly work as seen in China is fetishized as some ideal to strive for is hard to understand. The US has been successful by looking forward at what's next rather than looking backwards while choking back nostalgic tears.

America is strong in its technology industry - you lead the world in it. Sad that so much xenophobia/romanticism directed at manufacturing industry - we lost ours too but we'd swap your Silicon Valley for any of our sectors any time...(except for the tax evasion bit)

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1771 on: February 06, 2017, 11:53:10 PM »
New Zealand has repeatedly offered to take some of the refugees detained by Australia on Nauru and Manus Island but the Aussies said no.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/307428/pm-stands-by-offer-to-take-150-asylum-seekers
Sad. :( Such an easy request to say yes to.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1772 on: February 07, 2017, 04:48:09 AM »
over 22million  Americans work for the government. That is more than 10% of working age Americans.

Where did you get this horribly wrong number from?

In truth, there are about 2.8 million civilian federal employees, and about 1.5 million people in the US military.  This number has been essentially flat for decades, even as the size and scope of the government has grown tremendously.  Government now does more per federal employee than at any time in history.

Maybe you're also counting state and county and city employees?  Plus irrigation districts, home owner's associations, fire department retirees unions, part time librarians, and everyone who has ever received unemployment?  I just can't fathom how else you turn 2.79 million civil servants into 22 million people without deliberately trying to distort the truth.

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES9000000001

I got that horribly wrong number from the BLS website. You were right, I was off a bit, it is not 22 million, it is 22,276,000
The title for the chart is All employees, thousands, government, seasonally adjusted
It doesn't say anything about unemployment, but as you said, I assume it does include state and local government and military.
When I said 20% waste, manpower is only part of that, I am not implying we could cut 4 million jobs. I meant 20% of dollars.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1773 on: February 07, 2017, 04:56:26 AM »
Quote
It sounds like he wants to leave gay marriage alone, that's a start.
Two words scare me right now;  Mike Pense

Quote
I don't mind the wall.
I think the wall is entirely symbolic, and functionally worthless.  We are going to spend tens of billions building a symbol that won't curb immigration or drug-running.  It doesn't help that I think the symbol itself is an incredibly bad.


Agreed, on those two points and many of your others. Then again, most of the jobs created by the TARP stimulus were equally functionally worthless, ( saw this first hand) so I guess you could call it another stimulus.

We have done a decent job stopping  terror attacks on the US from foreign attackers, its foreign inspired domestic attacks that we have not done a good job with.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1774 on: February 07, 2017, 05:47:35 AM »
I guess I was just going off what Marillyn Hewson, Lockheed CEO has tweeted and said in statements since meeting with Donald Trump in December.  I wouldn't base much off what Trump claims, but if the other party backs it up, there may be some truth.

Quote
“I’ve heard his message loud and clear about reducing the cost of the F-35,” Hewson said in a statement. “I gave him my personal commitment to drive the cost down aggressively.”

Quote
Lockheed Martin credited President Donald Trump for helping to "accelerate negotiations" and "drive down the price" of what is already the most expensive weapons program in history.

So the best we can surmise, even if we assume Hewson wasn't trying to suck up to someone who can send truckloads of money his way and take him at his exact words, is that Trump "accelerated" a process that was already happening. Color me unimpressed.

Pretty much this. Trump is well known for responding to people who suck up to them, and getting into twitter fights anytime someone criticizes him.
If I were a CEO who depended on military contracts I'd probably have said the same things to get my money. 
Think of the alternative - had he put out a statement saying "while our meeting with DJT was productive, we'd like to correct the record and say that these cost-cutting measures were already being implamented before DJT took office" - um, no.  He would have yanked the rug out so fast, then blamed all the fallout on Obama, and only after 6 months would he have come back to the same deal and claimed "amazing cost-savings, I was right!!"
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1775 on: February 07, 2017, 06:04:10 AM »
I've been reading through the articles and synopses posted about Bannon, and my conclusion is that his approach is as much of the problem as his end goals.

Running a diverse country is not the same as running a company. In business the primary goal is to defeat your competitors, and it seems DJT is continuing that stategy.  Problem is, the competitors here tend to be minorities and trading partners.

As an example, imagine there was a policy that would do little for the US in the short term but would substantially help Mexico. DJT would rail against it as being a 'horrible deal - the US gets nothing!  Mexico gets everything! BAD' ... yet globally and long term these are the sorts of policies we should consider.

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former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1776 on: February 07, 2017, 06:18:41 AM »
I am fucking fuming at that fucking liar Trump right now.

Here's what he said:  "And all across Europe you've seen what happened, in Paris and Nice.  All over Europe it's happening.  It's gotten to a point where it's not even being reported.  And in many cases the very, very dishonest press doesn't want to report it.  They have their reasons, you understand that."

Who the fuck is that meant to be a message to?  People in Europe?  We have pluralistic, free press, of all political persuasions and none, which reports freely and fairly - here is the BBC summary of the White House list of "European" attacks (most of which were not in Europe) and how the BBC reported them-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38890090

So Trump here is gaslighting Americans.  There isn't enough "real" terror in the world for him, so he has to invent some that Americans are not being told about, for "reasons", so he can defeat it and keep them safe.  Fucking Trump has read 1984 and taken it as his fucking manual for being President.

Please, how long is it going to be before you can impeach this fucker?

Edited to add: I guess what Trump might also be trying to do is to get the media to provide excessive coverage of terrorist events in order to prove that they are not underreporting?  Which would have a similar effect in ramping up Bannon's "clash of civilisations" narrative.  Yeah, fuck that.

Further edited to add: the grieving mother of one of the victims in the attack in Queensland Australia in August 2016, one of the attacks listed by the White House as being a "terror" attack, has stated that it was not a terror attack and must not be used as an excuse to persecute innocent people.

Fucking Trump, fucking White House.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-38893253
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 07:50:49 AM by former player »
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acroy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1777 on: February 07, 2017, 06:25:38 AM »
I hope he puts stop to the Ethanol scam. But he hasn't said much about it so I doubt it.
It's coming. We're in week 3. Give it a little time. Even MSM is catching on.
http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/nicolas-loris/finally-america-may-be-catching-ethanol-racket

Senate killed off the ridiculous coal ban
http://www.jurist.org/paperchase/2017/02/senate-ends-obama-coal-mining-rule.php
So much winning I can barely stand it.
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GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1778 on: February 07, 2017, 06:33:17 AM »
over 22million  Americans work for the government. That is more than 10% of working age Americans.

Where did you get this horribly wrong number from?

In truth, there are about 2.8 million civilian federal employees, and about 1.5 million people in the US military.  This number has been essentially flat for decades, even as the size and scope of the government has grown tremendously.  Government now does more per federal employee than at any time in history.

Maybe you're also counting state and county and city employees?  Plus irrigation districts, home owner's associations, fire department retirees unions, part time librarians, and everyone who has ever received unemployment?  I just can't fathom how else you turn 2.79 million civil servants into 22 million people without deliberately trying to distort the truth.

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES9000000001

I got that horribly wrong number from the BLS website. You were right, I was off a bit, it is not 22 million, it is 22,276,000
The title for the chart is All employees, thousands, government, seasonally adjusted
It doesn't say anything about unemployment, but as you said, I assume it does include state and local government and military.
When I said 20% waste, manpower is only part of that, I am not implying we could cut 4 million jobs. I meant 20% of dollars.

The number you're showing does include federal government employees, state and local employees, city officials, teachers/educators, the military, librarians, the post office, etc.  That makes it rather misleading.

There are 2.136 million Federal government employees as of 2014, with a projected loss of more than 200,000 jobs by 2024.  https://data.bls.gov/projections/nationalMatrix?queryParams=999100&ioType=i

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1779 on: February 07, 2017, 06:33:49 AM »
I am fucking fuming at that fucking liar Trump right now.

Here's what he said:  "And all across Europe you've seen what happened, in Paris and Nice.  All over Europe it's happening.  It's gotten to a point where it's not even being reported.  And in many cases the very, very dishonest press doesn't want to report it.  They have their reasons, you understand that."

...
There isn't enough "real" terror in the world for him, so he has to invent some that Americans are not being told about, for "reasons", so he can defeat it and keep them safe. 

I share your frustration Former Player

Once again DJT seems to be dredging up things that never happened in an effort to get his base to play along, and to keep the whole country fearful of a phantom threat.  He did it in the primaries when he stated that "I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering. It never happened (fact-checked here).  Then he doubled-down on this assertion and (shock!) some people now swear they remember this from happening.  Memory is a funny and meldable thing.
He's also claimed that "I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally"(also debunked)

This list goes on. 

His latest is sinister claim that there are lots more Muslim terrorist attacks we need to protect against, but we don't know about them because they aren't being reported. Again, false.
The best way of getting more power is ofr the populace to be mortally afraid.  That's what happened with the patriot act following 9/11, not to mention during WWII and WWI (and most every other major war).  I'm guessing that in DJT's mind all he needs to do is convince people their greatest threat to life is terrorism and he can accomplish everything he wants to (complete Muslim ban, a 'beautiful wall', some targeted wars againt "very bad people"... 

The best counter I think is to not be afraid.  The average person is safer now than at any time in our history.  The EU certainly has helped with that (all of its problems aside)
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1780 on: February 07, 2017, 06:35:08 AM »

It's coming. We're in week 3. Give it a little time. Even MSM is catching on.
http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/nicolas-loris/finally-america-may-be-catching-ethanol-racket

Senate killed off the ridiculous coal ban
http://www.jurist.org/paperchase/2017/02/senate-ends-obama-coal-mining-rule.php
So much winning I can barely stand it.

I can't tell if that was intended to be serious or sarcastic Acroy.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1781 on: February 07, 2017, 06:43:32 AM »
I think people so upset by Trump read, listen to, and watch too much news, get over it.  Do you really think your life is going to be affected much by this guy?   How did the last several presidents positively or negatively impact your life?   I always have hopes for positive change, but the way the DC bureaucrats (Repub or Dem) have things so jammed up, major changes of any type rarely happen.

One thing I do have an interest in and will predict:
Firearms and and ammunition sales will level out or decrease now that there isn't much fear of a gun grab, and ammo that has been hard to get will be more readily available, hopefully cheaper too.


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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1782 on: February 07, 2017, 07:08:00 AM »
One thing I do have an interest in and will predict:
Firearms and and ammunition sales will level out or decrease now that there isn't much fear of a gun grab, and ammo that has been hard to get will be more readily available, hopefully cheaper too.

Already happening:
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/317806-gun-sales-slow-following-trump-election

They'll go back if Trump is impeached.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1783 on: February 07, 2017, 07:11:01 AM »
Yes, let's support those coal miners by letting their owners pollute the water they drink.  That'll show em! 

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1784 on: February 07, 2017, 07:13:09 AM »
I think people so upset by Trump read, listen to, and watch too much news, get over it.  Do you really think your life is going to be affected much by this guy?   How did the last several presidents positively or negatively impact your life?   
Normally I'd be one to agree with you, but we are both seeing some immediate and negative impacts to our own lives. The complete shut-down of the EPA grants plus freezes in the federal hiring have directly and negatively impacted us.  I also have to collegues, both with families, that now feel they cannot travel to and from the country.

Ironically my greatest hope right now is that the bureaucracy will act as a buffer from some of the more extreme changes proposed.  So far DJT seems willing to run roughshot over it though.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1785 on: February 07, 2017, 07:16:24 AM »
I think people so upset by Trump read, listen to, and watch too much news, get over it.  Do you really think your life is going to be affected much by this guy?   How did the last several presidents positively or negatively impact your life?   I always have hopes for positive change, but the way the DC bureaucrats (Repub or Dem) have things so jammed up, major changes of any type rarely happen.

One thing I do have an interest in and will predict:
Firearms and and ammunition sales will level out or decrease now that there isn't much fear of a gun grab, and ammo that has been hard to get will be more readily available, hopefully cheaper too.
A leader who lies to his nation about non-existent threats has no good purpose or outcome in mind.  When that nation has the most powerful military on the planet and an excess of nuclear weapons, there is the potential for us all to be affected.  The scale of these lies and the potential adverse effects is unprecedented: Dubya lied about Iraq, but the effects at the time were mostly limited to Iraq itself - although I concede the subsequent spread.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1786 on: February 07, 2017, 07:38:04 AM »
It seems like every day is packed full of impacts of Trump being so incredibly outrageous.  The one I'm still trying to explain is his comment 'You think our country is so innoncent...'.  Holy crap, what a demeaning backward thing for a US President to even think, let alone go on the record with.

I literally wake up every morning dreading what Trump might do.  Even in this relative calm with the travel ban halted, I fear that Bannon is whispering in Trump's ear that the jihad is coming and refugees are pouring in.  I worry that, even when democracy and the will of the people reassert itself, when the checks and balances work, that Trump gets a little more crazy.
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JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1787 on: February 07, 2017, 08:28:49 AM »
I think people so upset by Trump read, listen to, and watch too much news, get over it.  Do you really think your life is going to be affected much by this guy?   How did the last several presidents positively or negatively impact your life?   I always have hopes for positive change, but the way the DC bureaucrats (Repub or Dem) have things so jammed up, major changes of any type rarely happen.

One thing I do have an interest in and will predict:
Firearms and and ammunition sales will level out or decrease now that there isn't much fear of a gun grab, and ammo that has been hard to get will be more readily available, hopefully cheaper too.

Me personally?  Not much. I'm a US-born non-Muslim straight white male.

That said, I'm not selfish enough to ignore the potential repercussions for everyone else.

acroy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1788 on: February 07, 2017, 08:37:04 AM »

It's coming. We're in week 3. Give it a little time. Even MSM is catching on.
http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/nicolas-loris/finally-america-may-be-catching-ethanol-racket

Senate killed off the ridiculous coal ban
http://www.jurist.org/paperchase/2017/02/senate-ends-obama-coal-mining-rule.php
So much winning I can barely stand it.

I can't tell if that was intended to be serious or sarcastic Acroy.

Dead serious.
Read up on the rule. Perhaps a source you trust: http://www.vox.com/2017/2/2/14488448/stream-protection-rule
Even Vox acknowledges the 1,700+pg rule (which is in addition to all the other thousands of pages of regulations) is "almost ludicrously complex".
It was one piece of the Establishment's War on Coal
http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/05/inside-war-on-coal-000002

Good riddance. Many more to follow.
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farmecologist

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1789 on: February 07, 2017, 08:47:16 AM »
I think people so upset by Trump read, listen to, and watch too much news, get over it.  Do you really think your life is going to be affected much by this guy?   How did the last several presidents positively or negatively impact your life?   I always have hopes for positive change, but the way the DC bureaucrats (Repub or Dem) have things so jammed up, major changes of any type rarely happen.


Fishindude - I've been thinking a lot about what you say recently. I'm starting to think that liberals are actually way more likely to be affected by the current administration, in part because liberals seem to be drawn to careers and vocations that are currently "threatened" (in short - liberals are drawn to civil service).

A few examples of how I and people I'm close with are being directly affected:
  • The small business I work for has already had a couple planned projects for 2017 put on hold due to uncertainty within Fed agencies and defense contractors. 
  • My local library presents an adult education series every year that is funded with a grant from the NEH. I was talking to the program director this weekend and she is afraid they will lose all their funding for it next year
  • I have two friends who work directly for the NEA as well as family, several friends and acquaintances who have received funding from the NEA - everything there is up in limbo right now.
  • Friends from a local interfaith community group who are skipping travel home to visit their families this summer due to the travel ban
  • One of my good friends from college is now an asylum attorney specializing in LBGTQ cases from predominantly muslim countries - her last two weeks have been insane.
  • Additionally I have friends that work for NPS, have grants funded by NIH, work in climate research, are profs at Berkeley (and a million other institutions - but the Pres only threatened to take away UCB's funding as of now), and who work for homeless (re HUD) outreach - All are unsure what their jobs will look like in the near future.
  • Our local JCC had to be evacuated from a bomb threat, and a Muslim family's home was defaced with hate graffiti.

Among my close friend group I would be shocked if there were people who did not feel their lives/livelihoods threatened by upset from the current admin.

Now to be fair - my many members of my Midwestern (Hoosier) family feel very differently and as of right now their lives have only changed for the better (one of my uncles works at Carrier).  So I get where you are coming from for sure.  But please don't dismiss those of us who feel like our lives may be dramatically changed by some of this administration's plans.


It will be interesting to see how much this administration affects the U.S. travel industry.  Just did a quick search and it looks like there are many articles out there about it.  The theory is that the travel ban rhetoric,etc... may make foreigners statistically less likely to visit the U.S.. 

Personally, we may do a road trip to Yellowstone this year.  We also went 2 years ago and the place was absolutely overrun with foreign tourists.  Not complaining...but it was very noticeable from when we went the previous time (about 10 years ago).   It will be interesting to see if there are any differences this year.

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1790 on: February 07, 2017, 08:49:27 AM »

It's coming. We're in week 3. Give it a little time. Even MSM is catching on.
http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/nicolas-loris/finally-america-may-be-catching-ethanol-racket

Senate killed off the ridiculous coal ban
http://www.jurist.org/paperchase/2017/02/senate-ends-obama-coal-mining-rule.php
So much winning I can barely stand it.

I can't tell if that was intended to be serious or sarcastic Acroy.

Dead serious.
Read up on the rule. Perhaps a source you trust: http://www.vox.com/2017/2/2/14488448/stream-protection-rule
Even Vox acknowledges the 1,700+pg rule (which is in addition to all the other thousands of pages of regulations) is "almost ludicrously complex".
It was one piece of the Establishment's War on Coal
http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/05/inside-war-on-coal-000002

Good riddance. Many more to follow.
why on earth would you think that vox would be a source I would trust over others?
I wouldn't characterize myself as a bleeding-edge liberal.

As for the 'ludicrously complex' regulations surroudning coal, I think it's inherent in an implicit strategy to limit the amount of coal we mine.
I agree we could make this less complex overall, but then we run into the question about what the fair cost for coal should be; is it merely the cost of pulling it out of the ground, or do we incorporate the wide range of health risks to both humans and the planet that it creates?
Since carbon-taxes and cap-and-trade regulation have largely stalled, what would you propose?

If we are going to remove overly ornerous regulation (which I support doing) I believe we need to have some sensible regulations to replace it with. 
Striking down regulations and then saying "well, we'll come up with something better down the line as problems arise" is a really dumb strategy IMO.
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1791 on: February 07, 2017, 08:51:30 AM »
Heh, okay.  So you are okay with poisoning people if it puts a few more $$$ in some millionaires pocket.  Good to know. 

I am for anything that kills off coal quicker.  The more burdensome rules, the happier I am.  And before you say "What about the poor coal miners?", there are twice the number of people employed in solar as in all fossil fuels combined.  Let a dying industry die, retrain those folks or provide them assistance if they aren't able.  Supporting coal is dumb on a number of levels.  It's also a horrible job that kills people.  I don't care if it's part of their culture.  My ancestors were from West Virginia, and thankfully, my grandfather got out.  So now I get to work a cushy office job.  I'll take breathing clear air and drinking clean water over "culture" any day. 

http://fortune.com/2017/02/07/us-solar-jobs-2016/


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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1792 on: February 07, 2017, 08:53:24 AM »
I am fucking fuming at that fucking liar Trump right now.

Here's what he said:  "And all across Europe you've seen what happened, in Paris and Nice.  All over Europe it's happening.  It's gotten to a point where it's not even being reported.  And in many cases the very, very dishonest press doesn't want to report it.  They have their reasons, you understand that."


Among the attacks the Trump administration claims were not covered by the press are the Pulse nightclub and Brussels. Only in Crazy-As-Fuck-Alternative-Facts-Land did those attacks not completely overwhelm all forms of media when they occurred, wall-to-wall coverage, and of course it's completely verifiable. But facts don't matter. And also the Bowling Green Massacre was completely squelched by the press, the Holocaust never happened, the moon landing was faked, and jet contrails are from the CIA spraying mind-control drugs over everyone.

Meanwhile back in reality, people and the GOP Congress STILL support Trump somehow.
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golden1

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1793 on: February 07, 2017, 09:01:37 AM »
Quote
Meanwhile back in reality, people and the GOP Congress STILL support Trump somehow.

Of course they do.  Because his base hates liberals MORE than they care about pretty much anything else.  We are the threat and the enemy above all other threats.  Once you understand that, you understand his appeal.  His values and personality are anti-liberal at a basic level.  His ability to upset liberals is his best feature, even if it is at the expense of his supporters own standard of living.  This is why they will justify anything he does, because it gives them jollies to upset liberals and that is worth it to them. 

The congress just uses Trump's ability to rouse and distract his base in order to suck up wealth and demolish the safety net.  They made a deal with the devil and so far it's working out pretty well for them. 

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1794 on: February 07, 2017, 09:16:48 AM »
Heh, okay.  So you are okay with poisoning people if it puts a few more $$$ in some millionaires pocket.  Good to know. 

I am for anything that kills off coal quicker.  The more burdensome rules, the happier I am.  And before you say "What about the poor coal miners?", there are twice the number of people employed in solar as in all fossil fuels combined.  Let a dying industry die, retrain those folks or provide them assistance if they aren't able.  Supporting coal is dumb on a number of levels.  It's also a horrible job that kills people.  I don't care if it's part of their culture.  My ancestors were from West Virginia, and thankfully, my grandfather got out.  So now I get to work a cushy office job.  I'll take breathing clear air and drinking clean water over "culture" any day. 

This thinking is nuts.  We still get a huge percentage of our electricity in America from evil Coal and Nuke, and natural gas is gaining ground. 
Newsflash .....solar doesn't work after dark, and wind doesn't work when the wind doesn't blow.  There wouldn't even be much wind or solar power initiative in the US had the government not stepped in and highly subsidized (read took our money) to make it happen, because the clean power you want will not support itself unless you are willing to pay a bunch more for your normal monthly electric bill.  Even then, you will still need a percentage of nuke, coal or gas power to run things when the wind doesn't blow and sun doesn't shine.

Also think about what huge increases in electrical bills will do to business and industry.  It will either put them out of business or severely jack up the prices of all the things we consume and need everyday.  Or price a solar system that will provide enough power for your home, I did and the price tag was $70,000.  Would take near 25 years for me to break even, and in all likelihood the stuff wouldn't last that long to begin with.

Ever seen a reclaimed coal mine?   Yes, it's a dirty operation while they are mining, but once reclaimed, these are some of the nicest, best hunting and fishing properties in my state and neighboring states, I spend a lot of time on these properties every year.   What's going to happen when all of these windmills start wearing out in 20 years?

I'm all for clean and green, but solutions need to be cost effective and reasonable.





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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1795 on: February 07, 2017, 09:18:42 AM »
Heh, okay.  So you are okay with poisoning people if it puts a few more $$$ in some millionaires pocket.  Good to know. 

I am for anything that kills off coal quicker.  The more burdensome rules, the happier I am.  And before you say "What about the poor coal miners?", there are twice the number of people employed in solar as in all fossil fuels combined.  Let a dying industry die, retrain those folks or provide them assistance if they aren't able.  Supporting coal is dumb on a number of levels.  It's also a horrible job that kills people.  I don't care if it's part of their culture.  My ancestors were from West Virginia, and thankfully, my grandfather got out.  So now I get to work a cushy office job.  I'll take breathing clear air and drinking clean water over "culture" any day. 

http://fortune.com/2017/02/07/us-solar-jobs-2016/

Another recent bit of news is that 'Wind Turbine Technician' is the USA's 'fastest growing occupation'.  Regardless of what this administration does, wind and solar will only continue to grow...


StarBright

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1796 on: February 07, 2017, 09:18:56 AM »

It will be interesting to see how much this administration affects the U.S. travel industry.  Just did a quick search and it looks like there are many articles out there about it.  The theory is that the travel ban rhetoric,etc... may make foreigners statistically less likely to visit the U.S.. 

Personally, we may do a road trip to Yellowstone this year.  We also went 2 years ago and the place was absolutely overrun with foreign tourists.  Not complaining...but it was very noticeable from when we went the previous time (about 10 years ago).   It will be interesting to see if there are any differences this year.

NPR did a piece about travel just this morning! One of the things they brought up (in addition to foreign tourists not coming to the US) was American travel abroad being cancelled because people are angry at the US and american's are worried about retaliation. They talked to travel agencies whose business was (anecdotally ) falling off rather quickly because no one wants to come in or go out right now.

waltworks

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1797 on: February 07, 2017, 09:26:05 AM »
Cheap natural gas (fracking) killed coal, not "burdensome regulations". That trend will continue, the natural gas reserves available now for development in the US are just insane.

So, Acroy, if your goal is to sell lots of coal to China, you might get your wish. I have mixed feelings about that. If you want to see US coal plants staying in business/being built... sorry. Not going to happen in our lifetimes.

-W

JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1798 on: February 07, 2017, 09:31:55 AM »
Heh, okay.  So you are okay with poisoning people if it puts a few more $$$ in some millionaires pocket.  Good to know. 

I am for anything that kills off coal quicker.  The more burdensome rules, the happier I am.  And before you say "What about the poor coal miners?", there are twice the number of people employed in solar as in all fossil fuels combined.  Let a dying industry die, retrain those folks or provide them assistance if they aren't able.  Supporting coal is dumb on a number of levels.  It's also a horrible job that kills people.  I don't care if it's part of their culture.  My ancestors were from West Virginia, and thankfully, my grandfather got out.  So now I get to work a cushy office job.  I'll take breathing clear air and drinking clean water over "culture" any day. 

This thinking is nuts.  We still get a huge percentage of our electricity in America from evil Coal and Nuke, and natural gas is gaining ground. 
Newsflash .....solar doesn't work after dark, and wind doesn't work when the wind doesn't blow.  There wouldn't even be much wind or solar power initiative in the US had the government not stepped in and highly subsidized (read took our money) to make it happen, because the clean power you want will not support itself unless you are willing to pay a bunch more for your normal monthly electric bill.  Even then, you will still need a percentage of nuke, coal or gas power to run things when the wind doesn't blow and sun doesn't shine.

Also think about what huge increases in electrical bills will do to business and industry.  It will either put them out of business or severely jack up the prices of all the things we consume and need everyday.  Or price a solar system that will provide enough power for your home, I did and the price tag was $70,000.  Would take near 25 years for me to break even, and in all likelihood the stuff wouldn't last that long to begin with.

Ever seen a reclaimed coal mine?   Yes, it's a dirty operation while they are mining, but once reclaimed, these are some of the nicest, best hunting and fishing properties in my state and neighboring states, I spend a lot of time on these properties every year.   What's going to happen when all of these windmills start wearing out in 20 years?

I'm all for clean and green, but solutions need to be cost effective and reasonable.

Your post is lacking in facts and is rife with speculative gibberish.

Solar power has decreased in cost dramatically and will only continue to do so as technology improves.   This is an interesting graph showing how each state gets its power. Note that coal is primarily used in flyover states and coastal areas are almost exclusively on other types:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/power-plants/
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 10:11:25 AM by JLee »

gaja

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1799 on: February 07, 2017, 09:32:02 AM »


It will be interesting to see how much this administration affects the U.S. travel industry.  Just did a quick search and it looks like there are many articles out there about it.  The theory is that the travel ban rhetoric,etc... may make foreigners statistically less likely to visit the U.S.. 

Personally, we may do a road trip to Yellowstone this year.  We also went 2 years ago and the place was absolutely overrun with foreign tourists.  Not complaining...but it was very noticeable from when we went the previous time (about 10 years ago).   It will be interesting to see if there are any differences this year.

We are among those who are considering not going on vacation to the US this year. I hear a lot of people saying the same thing, both IRL and in Norwegian social media. But we are a small nation, not a large part of the statistics. What should worry you more, is that there is a lot of outcry in the academic environments about larger conventions that often are placed in the US. Some, like the psycologists association, have asked their members to boycott already planned conferences. The medical association are considering doing the same. But many more are working to have the next international meetings and conferences located in countries where their colleagues won't be denied access. It is simply becoming too inconvenient to arrange things in a country where you can't know what the rules will be next week.
Travelling to 71° Northern Latitude in an electric car: http://travelelectric.blogspot.no/