Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 370167 times)

gaja

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1500 on: January 28, 2017, 11:31:10 AM »
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/google-recalls-staff-to-us-after-trump-immigration-order/article33818090/

We are generally  quite fond of tax payers in Northern Europe, so if google and Facebook need a new place to locate their employees with "wrong" backgrounds, I'm sure we can reach a solution that benefits both sides: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/google-recalls-staff-to-us-after-trump-immigration-order/article33818090/
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packlawyer04

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1501 on: January 28, 2017, 11:40:15 AM »
Implications so far look really good. Get some of these regulations rolled back and maybe we can see GDP growth above 3%. something we have not seen for 8 years.  Jobs are returning and companies are investing in the United States again.
Jobs have been returning for eight years and our unemployment is near all-time lows, and essentially none of that has been due to the current, 7 day old administration. Giving up many of these regulations will give us negligable short-term gains but long-term problems. Of course DJT could torpedo everything with a few ego-driven trade wars.  Nice trolling


You are right. The economy is booming.  Can't believe Trump won with such an exploding economy since Clinton promised more of the same policies as the last 8 years. People just must be crazy and not realize how good they have it.

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1502 on: January 28, 2017, 11:40:39 AM »
Nooo,  come to Canada.    Help us rebuild our tech base.   
Public  health care and a Liberal government await you!
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GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1503 on: January 28, 2017, 12:14:43 PM »
Nooo,  come to Canada.    Help us rebuild our tech base.   
Public  health care and a Liberal government await you!

No.  We really should build a wall to prevent that.  Remember:

When America sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
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packlawyer04

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1504 on: January 28, 2017, 12:17:09 PM »
Nooo,  come to Canada.    Help us rebuild our tech base.   
Public  health care and a Liberal government await you!

No.  We really should build a wall to prevent that.  Remember:

When America sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

I don't think you guys will need to worry.

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1505 on: January 28, 2017, 12:44:54 PM »
Nooo,  come to Canada.    Help us rebuild our tech base.   
Public  health care and a Liberal government await you!

No.  We really should build a wall to prevent that.  Remember:

When America sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

I don't think you guys will need to worry.

Working at a Canadian research institution I can't help but notice the number of extremely bright, well educated and driven people from the countries DJT has restricted that have populated our department over the last few years.  Several of them have been debating whether they should apply for jobs in the US once they get their graduate degrees.  I'm fairly certain this will turn many of them off.

Such a damn shame, and such a loss for the US.  On the plus side, good for Canada!
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MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1506 on: January 28, 2017, 12:49:24 PM »
Implications so far look really good. Get some of these regulations rolled back and maybe we can see GDP growth above 3%. something we have not seen for 8 years.  Jobs are returning and companies are investing in the United States again.
Jobs have been returning for eight years and our unemployment is near all-time lows, and essentially none of that has been due to the current, 7 day old administration. Giving up many of these regulations will give us negligable short-term gains but long-term problems. Of course DJT could torpedo everything with a few ego-driven trade wars.  Nice trolling


You are right. The economy is booming.  Can't believe Trump won with such an exploding economy since Clinton promised more of the same policies as the last 8 years. People just must be crazy and not realize how good they have it.

Trump won because of the electoral college not because he was more popular. Clinton garnered nearly 3 million more votes and nearly 400,000 more than Obama. 

packlawyer04

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1507 on: January 28, 2017, 12:53:04 PM »
Implications so far look really good. Get some of these regulations rolled back and maybe we can see GDP growth above 3%. something we have not seen for 8 years.  Jobs are returning and companies are investing in the United States again.
Jobs have been returning for eight years and our unemployment is near all-time lows, and essentially none of that has been due to the current, 7 day old administration. Giving up many of these regulations will give us negligable short-term gains but long-term problems. Of course DJT could torpedo everything with a few ego-driven trade wars.  Nice trolling


You are right. The economy is booming.  Can't believe Trump won with such an exploding economy since Clinton promised more of the same policies as the last 8 years. People just must be crazy and not realize how good they have it.

Trump won because of the electoral college not because he was more popular. Clinton garnered nearly 3 million more votes and nearly 400,000 more than Obama.

I know, it was awesome how they were able to switch the election from a popular vote to the electoral college at the last minute. Clinton never saw it coming.

Plus, a bunch of KKK moved to Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania,  Florida and Wisconsin between 2012 and 2016.  Because surely people who elected a black president wouldn't vote for racist Trump.  Damn republicans.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 12:59:23 PM by packlawyer04 »

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1508 on: January 28, 2017, 01:18:49 PM »

I know, it was awesome how they were able to switch the election from a popular vote to the electoral college at the last minute. Clinton never saw it coming.

Plus, a bunch of KKK moved to Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania,  Florida and Wisconsin between 2012 and 2016.  Because surely people who elected a black president wouldn't vote for racist Trump.  Damn republicans.

Besides spouting non-sense, what exactly is your point?
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packlawyer04

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1509 on: January 28, 2017, 02:03:25 PM »

I know, it was awesome how they were able to switch the election from a popular vote to the electoral college at the last minute. Clinton never saw it coming.

Plus, a bunch of KKK moved to Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania,  Florida and Wisconsin between 2012 and 2016.  Because surely people who elected a black president wouldn't vote for racist Trump.  Damn republicans.

Besides spouting non-sense, what exactly is your point?

I have spouted no nonsense. My point is that I expect to see major growth in the economy and a GDP back up in the 3 range, something Obama (the first president ever) could not do.  We are going to have a pro-business environment now.

At the rate democrats are going, Union money might be heading to republican campaigns for the next cycle.  Democrats are in a very precarious spot right now.  Do they keep moving further left or actually try to help what use to be their core base, average, blue collar, middle-class Americans.  But to do so, they will have to work with Trump who is already one step ahead of them. They will be damned if they do, damned if they don't.  Do they vote against legislation designed to open more factories in the U.S. or vote with Trump's plans.  My guess is democrats make the same mistake and continue to spout off about refugees and immigration while ignoring working class America.

Going to be a long 4 years for some of you, especially after the midterms. Democrats are defending tons of seats in the senate.  Not looking good for them.  They were expected to lose seats even before Trump won the election. Plus democrats never turn out for midterms.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/306210-10-senate-seats-that-could-flip-in-2018

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/senate-democrats-2018-midterms-231516

« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 02:14:28 PM by packlawyer04 »

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1510 on: January 28, 2017, 02:30:27 PM »
I have spouted no nonsense.
ah, but much of what you've said has stretches the truth to put it mildly.
as examples:
"maybe we can see GDP growth above 3%. something we have not seen for 8 years"
Real GDP growth was under 3% for W. Bush Sr., Nixon, Ford and Truman.  Post WWII average has been 2.9%So - misleading to say "we have not seen for 8 years"
"democrats never turn out for midterms."
Demonstrably false. In general turnout is lower for midterms, but the pattern is that the party not holding the white house turns out in greater numbers.  THis occurred in 2014 and 2010 for the republicans, as well as 2006 and 2002 for the democrats.
"Clinton promised more of the same policies as the last 8 years"
apparently you weren't paying attention to her platform.

I do agree with what you said about people "not realizing how good they ahve it". While many like to complain about wages being 'stagnant' it is equally true that they are also as high as they have ever been. What has happened is that people feel poorer than before, and that's in no small part because of rising expectations.
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FIRE me

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1511 on: January 28, 2017, 04:28:35 PM »
They will use eminent domain.

I bet not.

We just don't DO eminent domain anymore.  To modern sensibilities, that's considered government overreach and theft of personal property, and it's the most unAmerican thing imaginable.  You might as well eat a bald eagle.

They can't put the border somewhere else. If they build the wall, they will use eminent domain. As for sensibilities, are you kidding? We are talking about Donald J Trump.

The Keystone pipeline is already making extensive use of eminent domain in Texas.
 
http://keystone.steamingmules.com/maps/keystone-xl-eminent-domain-map/
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MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1512 on: January 28, 2017, 05:38:31 PM »
Implications so far look really good. Get some of these regulations rolled back and maybe we can see GDP growth above 3%. something we have not seen for 8 years.  Jobs are returning and companies are investing in the United States again.
Jobs have been returning for eight years and our unemployment is near all-time lows, and essentially none of that has been due to the current, 7 day old administration. Giving up many of these regulations will give us negligable short-term gains but long-term problems. Of course DJT could torpedo everything with a few ego-driven trade wars.  Nice trolling


You are right. The economy is booming.  Can't believe Trump won with such an exploding economy since Clinton promised more of the same policies as the last 8 years. People just must be crazy and not realize how good they have it.

Trump won because of the electoral college not because he was more popular. Clinton garnered nearly 3 million more votes and nearly 400,000 more than Obama.

I know, it was awesome how they were able to switch the election from a popular vote to the electoral college at the last minute. Clinton never saw it coming.

Plus, a bunch of KKK moved to Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania,  Florida and Wisconsin between 2012 and 2016.  Because surely people who elected a black president wouldn't vote for racist Trump.  Damn republicans.

Ahhh, I got suckered in by the troll.

sol

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1513 on: January 28, 2017, 05:42:50 PM »
Ahhh, I got suckered in by the troll.

Don't feel bad, there's a lot of that going around.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1514 on: January 28, 2017, 05:52:00 PM »
Widespread depression and debilitating angst? This is all so hard to watch. Aside from being evil and callous and harmful to so many people and our national interest, Trump's policies are just so incredibly stupid. My boyfriend and I have decided not to have kids, and are saving like crazy so we can flee the country as quickly as possible (yay EU and South American citizenships!). Even when Trump leaves, his supporters will still be here...which makes me pretty uncomfortable.

To be fair, his supporters have always been here. The population of the country didn't magically change overnight in early November. Trump has just given voice to a minority that has not had their voices heard for the better part of a decade.  It's a slow march, but progress is still happening. It's just not always a straight line in the direction that some people think it should go. Such is the process of checks and balances.
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dragoncar

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1515 on: January 29, 2017, 12:32:08 AM »
Ahhh, I got suckered in by the troll.

Don't feel bad, there's a lot of that going around.

My favorite part was when Obama was the first president

aspiringnomad

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1516 on: January 29, 2017, 09:38:26 AM »
Widespread depression and debilitating angst? This is all so hard to watch. Aside from being evil and callous and harmful to so many people and our national interest, Trump's policies are just so incredibly stupid. My boyfriend and I have decided not to have kids, and are saving like crazy so we can flee the country as quickly as possible (yay EU and South American citizenships!). Even when Trump leaves, his supporters will still be here...which makes me pretty uncomfortable.

Same situation here. It's saddens me, but we'd rather be someplace where people care about other people and facts.

GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1517 on: January 29, 2017, 10:01:46 AM »
Nooo,  come to Canada.    Help us rebuild our tech base.   
Public  health care and a Liberal government await you!

No.  We really should build a wall to prevent that.  Remember:

When America sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

I don't think you guys will need to worry.

Since when has need ever entered a debate about building a wall?  It's all about feelings, racism and alternative facts.
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ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1518 on: January 29, 2017, 11:01:11 AM »
Well, I wasn't looking forward to his presidency, but so far it's worse than I expected. Not just bad policy, but invompetently administered bad policy.

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1519 on: January 29, 2017, 11:13:07 AM »
Since when has need ever entered a debate about building a wall?  It's all about feelings, racism and alternative facts.

I wonder if/when DJT will start talking about the need for a glorious new wall along the US/Canada border. 
It's been a sad, sad week for many.
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EverCurious

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1520 on: January 29, 2017, 11:30:09 AM »
I'm truly terrified, but I have nowhere I think my husband and I can go. We don't exactly have STEM jobs so moving to Canada seems like a dream.

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nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1521 on: January 29, 2017, 11:41:12 AM »
As part of my quest to understand what values the GOP stands for today, I was reading over it's most recent platform.
Lots jumped out at me, but there's this in particular (emphasis added):

Quote

We reaffirm the Constitution’s fundamental principles: limited government, separation of powers, individual liberty, and the rule of law. We denounce bigotry, racism, anti-Semitism, ethnic prejudice, and religious intolerance. Therefore, we oppose discrimination based on race, sex, religion, creed, disability, or national origin and support statutes to end such discrimination. As the Party of Abraham Lincoln, we must continue to foster solutions to America’s difficult challenges when it comes to race relations today.
...
Administrative Law
Article I of the Constitution directs that “All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States....” For more than a century, however, Congress has delegated increasing amounts of legislative authority to executive departments, agencies, and commissions, laying the foundation for today’s vast administrative state. Unelected bureaucrats in the executive branch now write countless rules with the force of law and arbitrarily punish individuals who disobey those rules. The Constitution makes clear that these powers were granted to Congress by the people and must therefore remain solely with the people’s elected representatives. We call on Congress to begin reclaiming its constitutional powers from the bureaucratic state by requiring that major new federal regulations be approved by Congress before they can take effect, such as through the Regulation Freedom Amendment. We further affirm that courts should interpret laws as written by Congress rather than allowing executive agencies to rewrite those laws to suit administration priorities.
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MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1522 on: January 29, 2017, 11:44:38 AM »
Since when has need ever entered a debate about building a wall?  It's all about feelings, racism and alternative facts.

I wonder if/when DJT will start talking about the need for a glorious new wall along the US/Canada border. 
It's been a sad, sad week for many.

Perhaps Trump could pitch in right around the Niagara Falls region.

gaja

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1523 on: January 29, 2017, 02:19:32 PM »
Since when has need ever entered a debate about building a wall?  It's all about feelings, racism and alternative facts.

I wonder if/when DJT will start talking about the need for a glorious new wall along the US/Canada border. 
It's been a sad, sad week for many.

We have some crazy people in our Parliament too, who have become inspired by Trump and want a wall. So far it has resulted in a 250 meter long fence along the Russian border, that had to be torn down before it was finished because it was 1 cm too close to the "Peace zone". How anyone can think it is a good idea to provoke Russia, I don't know.

They have also been talking in capital letters about closing the border (against Sweden and Finland). But we have some experience from border smuggling from WW2, and while a lot of people escaped through the forests, most used the coast line. With all the islands and islets, and long parts of the border being fjords, you can easily swim across in several places. With a boat, you will be able to hide 99% of the time.

I did some simple calculations, and considering the difficult conditions along the border, and Norwegian labor laws (very strict regulations of the length of the work days, work weeks, and break time), we would need about 300 million people to enforce a closing of the border. In addition, the Sami people have UN protected rights to follow their reindeer herds across the border, and our fishermen would need to cross the coastal border control every day to get out to the fishing fields.

And then we have Spitsbergen, Jan Mayen, and Queen Maud's land (~1/6 of Antarctica). This "closed border" idea will be very expensive. On the positive side, we will get rid of the unemployment.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1524 on: January 29, 2017, 04:58:31 PM »
I'm truly terrified, but I have nowhere I think my husband and I can go. We don't exactly have STEM jobs so moving to Canada seems like a dream.

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Unreasonable immigration requirements hurt everyone.
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Merlion

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1525 on: January 29, 2017, 11:41:55 PM »
I'm truly terrified, but I have nowhere I think my husband and I can go. We don't exactly have STEM jobs so moving to Canada seems like a dream.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Not sure of your backgrounds and ages, but if you haven't done so do check out the immigration points calculators for countries like Canada.

The order from this weekend has made 2 things clear to me: 1. Things can change suddenly overnight on the whim of one person, even when you're out of the country on vacation - destroying your life. 2. Even green card holders are not safe. My wife is a green card holder from China. She's not impacted by by this order now, but who knows what could happen (Say, conflict in South China Sea leading to a similar ban and maybe registry for Chinese citizens? Far-fetched, I would hope, but not unimaginable like it had been before 46% of American voters decided Trump was what we needed).

We are seriously talking about beginning the immigration process to Canada even though it would really mess up our finances since job opportunities for both of us are much better in NYC, where we are now. A job hunt could be difficult, but ultimately we'd be fine, and our total points for immigration even without a job offer should be around the minimum required for Canada.

When we moved back to the US last year, we thought it would be a semi-permanent move. Now? The writing looks to be on the wall, and we don't want to still be here when stuff really hits the fan...
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 07:34:49 AM by Merlion »

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1526 on: January 30, 2017, 05:49:29 AM »
Speaking of stuff hitting the fan, this piece in Medium is worth a read.

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.iiwh1udux
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1527 on: January 30, 2017, 07:54:35 AM »
I'm truly terrified, but I have nowhere I think my husband and I can go. We don't exactly have STEM jobs so moving to Canada seems like a dream.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Not sure of your backgrounds and ages, but if you haven't done so do check out the immigration points calculators for countries like Canada.

Add to this - in the face of these new restrictions by DJT's executive order, Canada has upped its affirmation of taking in refugees.  From PM Trudeau:To those fleeing persecution, terror & war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength #WelcomeToCanada

If you have reason to believe you will be persecuted in the US you might want to contact CIC - STEM fields or not.
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oldtoyota

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1528 on: January 30, 2017, 07:59:54 AM »
Will Canada take American refugees?

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1529 on: January 30, 2017, 08:03:44 AM »
Another facet of what is so alarming about Trump is not so much that he is crashing through all of the delicate foreign relations that previous administrations have tended to over decades, bringing us to Pax Americana and some of the best times this Superpower has ever known, but that he has insulated himself inside of his bubble.  He has to be right and now only listens to the people that agree with his world view.

People like Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway:

Quote
Appearing on "Squawk Box," Conway said President Donald Trump needs to tweet to get the real information out. "This total misinformation and what I would say information 'underload' about the facts and figures ... are astonishing."

Trump tweeted this morning:

"Only 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning. Big problems at airports were caused by Delta computer outage,.....

"protesters and the tears of Senator Schumer. Secretary Kelly said that all is going well with very few problems. MAKE AMERICA SAFE AGAIN!

"There is nothing nice about searching for terrorists before they can enter our country. This was a big part of my campaign. Study the world!

"If the ban were announced with a one week notice, the "bad" would rush into our country during that week. A lot of bad "dudes" out there!"

And let's not overlook Trump kicking opposing, experienced viewpoints out of his National Security Coucil so that Steve Bannon can whisper in Trump's ear:
Quote
It started with the doom-hued inauguration homily to “American carnage” in United States cities co-written by Mr. Bannon, followed a few days later by his “shut up” message to the news media. The week culminated with a blizzard of executive orders, mostly hatched by Mr. Bannon’s team and the White House policy adviser, Stephen Miller, aimed at disorienting the “enemy,” fulfilling campaign promises and distracting attention from Mr. Trump’s less than flawless debut.

But the defining moment for Mr. Bannon came Saturday night in the form of an executive order giving the rumpled right-wing agitator a full seat on the “principals committee” of the National Security Council — while downgrading the roles of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the director of national intelligence, who will now attend only when the council is considering issues in their direct areas of responsibilities. It is a startling elevation of a political adviser, to a status alongside the secretaries of state and defense, and over the president’s top military and intelligence advisers.

Fortunately Jared Kushner, Trump's son-on-law, is also in there to help tend to the interests of the Trump empire. 

I wonder if Trump realizes that he is already lowering the quality of life for all Americans (some more than others)?  Nah, he seems so detached from reality that all it takes is a handfull of people telling him he is doing a good job and that America will eventually thrive once he goes 'just a little further' and creates 'just a little more pain'....
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nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1530 on: January 30, 2017, 08:09:35 AM »
Will Canada take American refugees?
Like many countries, Canada makes distinctions between refugees and 'ordinary' immigrants. If you fear persecution within your own country, you can apply for refugee status.  Otherwise, Canada has a points system for evaluating potential immigrants.  Having an in-demand job, being young, and having money all help your score.  Having a job offer (or acceptance letter from a Canadian university) is one of the best ways of gaining a temporary permit.
If you are older, deeply in debt and don't have a college education you will find it far harder.
Once you have a temporary permit (be in a student permit or temporary work permit) you can begin the process of applying for permanent residency. Once you have permanent residency you can apply for full citizenship.
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madgeylou

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1533 on: January 30, 2017, 08:13:27 AM »


Freedom2016

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1535 on: January 30, 2017, 08:24:17 AM »
Read this. Good summation.


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.tml9ikepu

Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?

What can any of us do except stand by and watch this unfold? It really feels like protests, phone calls, petitions, donations to ACLU, etc. aren't going to be enough.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1536 on: January 30, 2017, 08:28:18 AM »
Read this. Good summation.


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.tml9ikepu

Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?

What can any of us do except stand by and watch this unfold? It really feels like protests, phone calls, petitions, donations to ACLU, etc. aren't going to be enough.

Act. You have to act. And you have to get your friends and family to act, as well. Work on your circle of influence. Do not back down. Don't get complacent. Don't let those episodes of (insert binge-watched show) call to you and keep you on the couch instead of going to a rally.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Freedom2016

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1537 on: January 30, 2017, 08:44:58 AM »
Read this. Good summation.


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.tml9ikepu

Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?

What can any of us do except stand by and watch this unfold? It really feels like protests, phone calls, petitions, donations to ACLU, etc. aren't going to be enough.

Act. You have to act. And you have to get your friends and family to act, as well. Work on your circle of influence. Do not back down. Don't get complacent. Don't let those episodes of (insert binge-watched show) call to you and keep you on the couch instead of going to a rally.

I am doing those things--and will keep at it-- but it feels like it won't be enough. :(

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1538 on: January 30, 2017, 08:45:33 AM »
Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?

What can any of us do except stand by and watch this unfold? It really feels like protests, phone calls, petitions, donations to ACLU, etc. aren't going to be enough.

My SO and I have been talking about this extensively.  Executive actions aside, changes aren't going to be immediate. The Framers made sure that enactment of new laws took time (particualrly through the Senate) exactly because they didn't want a single President (and by procedurals the majority party) to have unfettered rule.

One thing I think is very important is to keep contacting your Congressional representatives.  If they are GOP even better. The best immediate resistance to the executive branch is the legislature. If those folks feel their re-election is in danger in 22 months they'll (eventually) find their balls and start standing up.

If your representative isn't actively speaking out, give money to the opposing candidate(s). If he/she does speak out, support them (they are going to need it)

This goes for your state governor too. State governors and state governments are responsible for handling voter registration and voting procedures.

Stay active, stay outraged. One of the factors that got us here is that too few people payed any attention, and too few people actually voted. This may be the hardest thing to do for the American public, and at the heart of DJT's strategy is most likely the bet that the country won't be able to stay tuned for very long.

Participate in voter registration drives NOW. DJT (and to a lesser extent the GOP) is already making noise about tightening up voter laws.
<60% of voting-age citizens turned out in November, and the number of registered voters has been in decline for decades. But most accounts if >60% of eligible voters turned out on election day this result would not have happened.

In two years DJT's powers will either be curtailed or expanded.  In four years we'll either have a new president or a re-affirmation of everything he has done and will do between then and now.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 08:48:21 AM by nereo »
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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1539 on: January 30, 2017, 08:48:44 AM »
Read this. Good summation.


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.tml9ikepu

Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?

What can any of us do except stand by and watch this unfold? It really feels like protests, phone calls, petitions, donations to ACLU, etc. aren't going to be enough.

Act. You have to act. And you have to get your friends and family to act, as well. Work on your circle of influence. Do not back down. Don't get complacent. Don't let those episodes of (insert binge-watched show) call to you and keep you on the couch instead of going to a rally.

The only thing that will stop Trump is the law, by which I mean administrative, civil and criminal cases brought before the courts to enforce the rule of law and the upholding of the constitution.  The constitution itself is not enough, it needs to be enforced by people bringing cases before the courts and the judges upholding them.

Of course, that only works for what Trump is doing inside the USA.  Outside it, Putin is already on the move in the Ukraine and 10 people are dead - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38794679

God help us all.
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radram

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1540 on: January 30, 2017, 09:35:59 AM »

Okay, can someone talk me out of my rising panic?


How about this?

If our country can allow itself to be turned into something it does not want to be, then maybe we are not as great as everybody thinks. There will be many changes. Many of them I will disagree with. I believe changes that "the people" disagree with will not stand once subjected to our system of checks and balances. Our nation is so much stronger than 1 man that tries to divide succeeds in dividing capitalizes on what divide us. (I just decided to edit immediately)

I am firmly against the Muslim ban in any form. I believe it can do nothing other than enrage a fringe group and make them stronger, as well as bring the US down a few pegs in the international community. Quite frankly, we could use that anyway (the later, not the former).

Does that make you feel any better? Honestly, no sarcasm intended.

Freedom2016

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1541 on: January 30, 2017, 10:48:39 AM »
I'm in a fairly reliably liberal state so it feels a bit like protesting and contacting my reps is shouting in the wind. (Yes, I know it's good to call reps anyway, at least to thank them.) Lately I've been wondering if we should move back to the midwest, where I grew up, to feel like I have a chance to break up the more extreme "red" ideologies there. But my stomach turns at the thought; I don't actually WANT to, and I doubt DH would go for it.

Radram thanks for trying but that doesn't exactly warm the cockles of my heart. :\ For awhile I've felt that the US isn't as "great" as everybody thinks, going strictly by numbers like maternal health, life expectancy, gini coefficient, education metrics, etc.

former player, I have a friend who used to work for DHS who on Sunday reactivated his license to practice law in light of the EO. I do believe the law is what we have to rely on...which makes me wish I was a lawyer. And makes me terribly concerned that the white house page has removed links and information about the Judicial Branch. It's almost as though they (Bannon) know that the law is the thing that could bring them down, and they don't want to remind people about its existence. Barf.
 


seattlecyclone

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1542 on: January 30, 2017, 12:12:15 PM »
Now I know we live in bizzaro-world...
The Koch Bros are the organized resistance against Trump and his policies.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/koch-network-poised-for-new-role--as-the-conservative-resistance-to-trump/2017/01/30/7750ef02-e67c-11e6-bf6f-301b6b443624_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_kochnetwork-635a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a93f2401180e

The enemy of my enemy is my friend?

I don't find this all that surprising, honestly. The Kochs seem to really, truly believe in libertarianism. Fascism is basically the opposite.
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nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1543 on: January 30, 2017, 12:50:15 PM »
Now I know we live in bizzaro-world...
The Koch Bros are the organized resistance against Trump and his policies.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/koch-network-poised-for-new-role--as-the-conservative-resistance-to-trump/2017/01/30/7750ef02-e67c-11e6-bf6f-301b6b443624_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_kochnetwork-635a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a93f2401180e

The enemy of my enemy is my friend?

I don't find this all that surprising, honestly. The Kochs seem to really, truly believe in libertarianism. Fascism is basically the opposite.

In a way I'm not surprised that the Kochs have maintained their positions. Argue for or against it, they've been very steadfast to their ideals for the last couple decades.

Its more surprising to me that so many GOPers are finding themselves on the wrong end of that large stick. The Kochs committment to increase spending on 2018 races to $350-400MM adds a new dimension. Presumably they will support conservative candidates who challenge those who've dropped in line with the Trumpian world view of tarrifs, trade-wars and military posturing, but will they support a moderate democrat over a Trumpian?
I'm certain it will boil down to a their assessment of who the 'better' choice is for each individual race.  In that regard they are extremely pragmatic.
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MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1544 on: January 30, 2017, 01:37:31 PM »

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1545 on: January 30, 2017, 01:45:55 PM »
Trump is smashing records and getting shit done!!

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/825781634330980352/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ouch...

So is it weird that a Republican president is the one that makes me really feel like I may actually need to buy a rifle to protect my neighbors from an overly opressive government? I've never felt so tinfoily before, and am generally pretty positive, but if relocation camps are next on the list...
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bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1546 on: January 30, 2017, 01:51:48 PM »
Trump is smashing records and getting shit done!!

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/825781634330980352/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ouch...

So is it weird that a Republican president is the one that makes me really feel like I may actually need to buy a rifle to protect my neighbors from an overly opressive government? I've never felt so tinfoily before, and am generally pretty positive, but if relocation camps are next on the list...

Where is that line between being tinfoily and truly being scared of an oppressive government?

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1547 on: January 30, 2017, 01:59:23 PM »
Trump is smashing records and getting shit done!!

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/825781634330980352/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ouch...

So is it weird that a Republican president is the one that makes me really feel like I may actually need to buy a rifle to protect my neighbors from an overly opressive government? I've never felt so tinfoily before, and am generally pretty positive, but if relocation camps are next on the list...

Where is that line between being tinfoily and truly being scared of an oppressive government?
Tinfoily - you lock your doors, set up VPNs, take your name off your mailbox and never use grocery-store discount cards

Truly scared - stockpile bullets, build a bunker and learn how to filter your own pee.
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acroy

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1548 on: January 30, 2017, 02:12:23 PM »
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345
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OurTown

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1549 on: January 30, 2017, 02:22:26 PM »
Apparently a real affect of DT presidency is liberals buying guns
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345

Dude, you laugh, but I'm considering it.