Author Topic: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?  (Read 385947 times)

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1400 on: January 25, 2017, 09:06:49 PM »
On the bright side, the market is up. :)
have to take good with the terrible, i guess.

Poundwise

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1401 on: January 25, 2017, 09:28:21 PM »
Not even through his first week as the leader of the free world, a Nation that once was a shining beacon of hope, and our President is being trolled on Twitter by the former Mexican president.  Let's hope Trump can hold his thumbs back for a day or two, although the opposition to all of his 'progress' is really starting to pile on at this point.  Environmentalists, fact checking media, big city mayors, Seth Meyers...

Don't forget the Dutch. Bless them. I'll never mock Edam cheese again.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 09:34:12 PM by Poundwise »

ysette9

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1402 on: January 25, 2017, 09:30:40 PM »
That was such a good video. A family friend sent us a link to a Finnish parody of him that aired recently as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Ymr9E7u1Y&feature=youtu.be

GuitarStv

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1403 on: January 26, 2017, 05:16:19 AM »
Also, he wants to reopen/expand black site CIA torture prisons:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-poised-to-lift-ban-on-cia-%E2%80%98black-site%E2%80%99-prisons/ar-AAmenXv?li=BBnb7Kz

Interested to see how those who cited Guantanamo as a strike against Obama (even though that one is demonstrably not on him) respond to this one.

Obama attempted to close Guantanamo and failed.  Although much of the failure was due to the republican held congress, I suppose that he does shoulder some responsibility for that.  Trump though, has indicated that his top people are telling him that torture works and that's why it's necessary . . . so, we have (yet more) evidence that his top people don't know what they're talking about.


"(Torture) is a poor technique that yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say what he thinks the interrogator wants to hear." - US Army FM 34-52 on Intelligence Interrogation

“(Torture is) not an effective means of obtaining accurate information or gaining detainee cooperation.”   and
“I personally remain firm in my belief that enhanced interrogation techniques are not an appropriate method obtain intelligence and that their use impairs our ability to continue to play a leadership role in the world.”
- CIA Director John Brennan

http://www.cgu.edu/pdffiles/sbos/costanzo_effects_of_interrogation.pdf

http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1196&context=ilj

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0022343313520023

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233006674_Erroneous_Assumptions_Popular_Belief_in_the_Effectiveness_of_Torture_Interrogation

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/an_fbi_interrogator_on_the_effectiveness_of_torture/

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/tortureandrendition/p/is_torture_just.htm

http://www.livescience.com/9209-study-torture-techniques-unethical-ineffective.html

etc. etc. etc.

deadlymonkey

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1404 on: January 26, 2017, 05:47:36 AM »
I think his "top people" who told him it works is some talking head on Fox.  Most if not all of the major IC heads and military leaders have publically said it does not work and they would resign rather than order it.

teen persuasion

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1405 on: January 26, 2017, 05:58:55 AM »
Also, he wants to reopen/expand black site CIA torture prisons:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-poised-to-lift-ban-on-cia-%E2%80%98black-site%E2%80%99-prisons/ar-AAmenXv?li=BBnb7Kz

Interested to see how those who cited Guantanamo as a strike against Obama (even though that one is demonstrably not on him) respond to this one.

Obama attempted to close Guantanamo and failed.  Although much of the failure was due to the republican held congress, I suppose that he does shoulder some responsibility for that.  Trump though, has indicated that his top people are telling him that torture works and that's why it's necessary . . . so, we have (yet more) evidence that his top people don't know what they're talking about.


"(Torture) is a poor technique that yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say what he thinks the interrogator wants to hear." - US Army FM 34-52 on Intelligence Interrogation

“(Torture is) not an effective means of obtaining accurate information or gaining detainee cooperation.”   and
“I personally remain firm in my belief that enhanced interrogation techniques are not an appropriate method obtain intelligence and that their use impairs our ability to continue to play a leadership role in the world.”
- CIA Director John Brennan

http://www.cgu.edu/pdffiles/sbos/costanzo_effects_of_interrogation.pdf

http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1196&context=ilj

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0022343313520023

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233006674_Erroneous_Assumptions_Popular_Belief_in_the_Effectiveness_of_Torture_Interrogation

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/an_fbi_interrogator_on_the_effectiveness_of_torture/

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/tortureandrendition/p/is_torture_just.htm

http://www.livescience.com/9209-study-torture-techniques-unethical-ineffective.html

etc. etc. etc.

Bolding added by me.

Last night on the national news they played a clip from David Muir's interview with Trump where David asked about this issue.  Trump claimed his people said torture worked.  Then in real time David asked another reporter what he thought of this clip - "Simply FASCINATING, because those same people have told me that they don't want torture, it doesn't work".

Just because Trump claims someone told him something doesn't make it true.  I've decided that, at least as far as truth goes, Trump is a five year old.  When asked for the truth, 5 year olds tell you what they wish was the truth.  Actual truth is a slippery concept at that age.

MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1406 on: January 26, 2017, 06:03:10 AM »
Also, he wants to reopen/expand black site CIA torture prisons:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-poised-to-lift-ban-on-cia-%E2%80%98black-site%E2%80%99-prisons/ar-AAmenXv?li=BBnb7Kz

Interested to see how those who cited Guantanamo as a strike against Obama (even though that one is demonstrably not on him) respond to this one.

 so, we have (yet more) evidence that his top people don't know what they're talking about.


To be fair they are probably just relying in alternative truths. You know those non-truth truths?

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1407 on: January 26, 2017, 06:20:22 AM »
Looks like Trump is kinda leaving Georgia and Florida swinging in the wake of these tornadoes.

http://www.salon.com/2017/01/25/im-begging-fema-for-boots-on-the-ground-donald-trump-leaves-gop-leaders-begging-for-aid-after-deadly-storms-in-the-south/

In other news, a conservative opposition group led by Evan McMullin is rising:

https://standuprepublic.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGk3Q2znF5g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18i6uS536c

EDIT: Seriously, Mnuchin too?!

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/25/1625143/-Trump-s-Voter-Fraud-Tiffany-Trump-Bannon-Mnuchin-all-Registered-to-Vote-in-Two-States?detail=facebook

Good lord, people. The irony is pretty freaking rich here. Too bad Trump voters will just excuse this, like they excuse everything else.
Umm... the studies show voter fraud is a non issue, despite what Trump would have you believe. Though I'm sure Trump haters will ignore these studies.

I'm apt to write off the two-state registration as a non-issue. First, there are bigger problems. Second, there's no indication any of them voted twice (or even attempted to). Third, I wouldn't even know how to cancel old voter registration after moving to a new state, and I'm sure most people don't even think about it in the first place. We should really have an automated system that can just transfer the record to the new state, showing that this unique voter went from state A to state B, and is duly registered in their new place. You could even do it under the auspices of preventing fraud, while making it easier to vote. Everyone wins. Too bad it would cost 0.0002% of the federal budget or whatever.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1408 on: January 26, 2017, 06:27:34 AM »
Looks like Trump is kinda leaving Georgia and Florida swinging in the wake of these tornadoes.

http://www.salon.com/2017/01/25/im-begging-fema-for-boots-on-the-ground-donald-trump-leaves-gop-leaders-begging-for-aid-after-deadly-storms-in-the-south/

In other news, a conservative opposition group led by Evan McMullin is rising:

https://standuprepublic.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGk3Q2znF5g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P18i6uS536c

EDIT: Seriously, Mnuchin too?!

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/25/1625143/-Trump-s-Voter-Fraud-Tiffany-Trump-Bannon-Mnuchin-all-Registered-to-Vote-in-Two-States?detail=facebook

Good lord, people. The irony is pretty freaking rich here. Too bad Trump voters will just excuse this, like they excuse everything else.
Umm... the studies show voter fraud is a non issue, despite what Trump would have you believe. Though I'm sure Trump haters will ignore these studies.

I'm apt to write off the two-state registration as a non-issue. First, there are bigger problems. Second, there's no indication any of them voted twice (or even attempted to). Third, I wouldn't even know how to cancel old voter registration after moving to a new state, and I'm sure most people don't even think about it in the first place. We should really have an automated system that can just transfer the record to the new state, showing that this unique voter went from state A to state B, and is duly registered in their new place. You could even do it under the auspices of preventing fraud, while making it easier to vote. Everyone wins. Too bad it would cost 0.0002% of the federal budget or whatever.

Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1409 on: January 26, 2017, 06:28:45 AM »
Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.

I guess it's just frustrating to see people on the left take that bait.

former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1410 on: January 26, 2017, 06:49:12 AM »
Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.

I guess it's just frustrating to see people on the left take that bait.
What bait?  And what left?

All we have here is someone correctly pointing out yet another indication that Trump is bat shit crazy, in this case about the fact that he got less of the popular vote than Hilary.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1411 on: January 26, 2017, 06:50:47 AM »
Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.

I guess it's just frustrating to see people on the left take that bait.
What bait?  And what left?

All we have here is someone correctly pointing out yet another indication that Trump is bat shit crazy, in this case about the fact that he got less of the popular vote than Hilary.

There were a bunch of articles going around shouting about how Bannon, et al are fraudsters. Mostly pearl clutching.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1412 on: January 26, 2017, 08:00:31 AM »
Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.

I guess it's just frustrating to see people on the left take that bait.
What bait?  And what left?

All we have here is someone correctly pointing out yet another indication that Trump is bat shit crazy, in this case about the fact that he got less of the popular vote than Hilary.
No. It's detractors making a logically fallacy in their attacks on their opponent. That's the bait; and people are falling for it left, right and center. There's so much to counter Trump on that seeing people distracted by things like voter registration of his family and inauguration crowd sizes is frustrating to those in the country that would like to see discussion and progress on actual issues.

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1413 on: January 26, 2017, 08:03:34 AM »
People need to stop hedging their bets and flat out say "Trump, you are lying and wrong".

former player

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1414 on: January 26, 2017, 08:10:02 AM »
Of course two-state registration is a non-issue. But that is precisely what Trump brought up as "evidence" of voter fraud. It's literally the only thing he has said about how one could know it was there. So, this is why I said it was an irony that two of his staffers and his daughter are registered in two states. As are probably most prople who vote and then move states and vote again.

I guess it's just frustrating to see people on the left take that bait.
What bait?  And what left?

All we have here is someone correctly pointing out yet another indication that Trump is bat shit crazy, in this case about the fact that he got less of the popular vote than Hilary.
No. It's detractors making a logically fallacy in their attacks on their opponent. That's the bait; and people are falling for it left, right and center. There's so much to counter Trump on that seeing people distracted by things like voter registration of his family and inauguration crowd sizes is frustrating to those in the country that would like to see discussion and progress on actual issues.
I thought that Trump was saying that there were 3 million illegal votes for Hillary, and one of the ways that he could prove this was by the number of double registrations?  So pointing out that double registrations are common even among his closest followers (who presumably voted for him, lawfully, once) nicely points out the absurdity of Trump's position.

And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1415 on: January 26, 2017, 08:43:47 AM »
And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

Except it's noise, and distracting from substantive policy discussions, and legitimate criticisms of cabinet appointments. I'd rather see opponents ignore the claims of voter fraud and whatever other nonsense he throws up, and focus on some of the more core issues.

If and when they actually start investigating (doubtful), then criticize the investigation, methods, etc. Right now he's just running his mouth and trying to keep his base amped up.

JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1416 on: January 26, 2017, 08:45:37 AM »
And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

Except it's noise, and distracting from substantive policy discussions, and legitimate criticisms of cabinet appointments. I'd rather see opponents ignore the claims of voter fraud and whatever other nonsense he throws up, and focus on some of the more core issues.

If and when they actually start investigating (doubtful), then criticize the investigation, methods, etc. Right now he's just running his mouth and trying to keep his base amped up.

What policy discussions? I've seen a string of executive orders...not so much discussion.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1417 on: January 26, 2017, 08:53:21 AM »
And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

Except it's noise, and distracting from substantive policy discussions, and legitimate criticisms of cabinet appointments. I'd rather see opponents ignore the claims of voter fraud and whatever other nonsense he throws up, and focus on some of the more core issues.

If and when they actually start investigating (doubtful), then criticize the investigation, methods, etc. Right now he's just running his mouth and trying to keep his base amped up.

What policy discussions? I've seen a string of executive orders...not so much discussion.

That's my point. We need to be having actual discussions. Cabinet confirmations need to be discussions. We need to discuss the new legislation Congress is introducing.

We aren't. We're talking about imaginary voter fraud and Melania's dress.

Ottawa

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1418 on: January 26, 2017, 09:01:41 AM »
Could it be that Trump is exercising 'Outrage Dilution'?

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156399716951/outrage-dilution

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1419 on: January 26, 2017, 09:01:46 AM »
And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

Except it's noise, and distracting from substantive policy discussions, and legitimate criticisms of cabinet appointments. I'd rather see opponents ignore the claims of voter fraud and whatever other nonsense he throws up, and focus on some of the more core issues.

If and when they actually start investigating (doubtful), then criticize the investigation, methods, etc. Right now he's just running his mouth and trying to keep his base amped up.

What policy discussions? I've seen a string of executive orders...not so much discussion.

That's my point. We need to be having actual discussions. Cabinet confirmations need to be discussions. We need to discuss the new legislation Congress is introducing.

We aren't. We're talking about imaginary voter fraud and Melania's dress.

Since I'm the one you were originally policing here...

I can send you the log of the phone calls I've made in the past few weeks to my congresspeople about the cabinet nominees and legislation the Republicans are proposing to Congress.

Can I also talk about how batshit crazy Trump is now?

Rimu05

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1420 on: January 26, 2017, 09:06:32 AM »
I was willing to give Trump a chance and thought he wouldn't follow up on campaign promises but now he's talking about the wall yet again and I'm losing respect here that I never had.

The wall is such a stupid idea I can't believe it is still up for discussion. The wall thing is so embarrassing on just about every front. I can understand wanting to keep illegal immigration down, but a wall? Is there going to be a night's watch patrolling around that wall.

Metric Mouse

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1421 on: January 26, 2017, 09:11:59 AM »
Could it be that Trump is exercising 'Outrage Dilution'?

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156399716951/outrage-dilution
Likely. And it's working, in my opinon. Dat guy got trolling skills.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1422 on: January 26, 2017, 09:13:43 AM »
Could it be that Trump is exercising 'Outrage Dilution'?

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156399716951/outrage-dilution
Likely. And it's working, in my opinon. Dat guy got trolling skills.

I really don't think so. The guy is way too unhinged to be that skilled. He's just nuts, and can't help himself.

Not to say the effect isn't the same.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1423 on: January 26, 2017, 09:19:26 AM »
Since I'm the one you were originally policing here...

I can send you the log of the phone calls I've made in the past few weeks to my congresspeople about the cabinet nominees and legislation the Republicans are proposing to Congress.

Can I also talk about how batshit crazy Trump is now?

I'm not trying to be the thought police. I'm just expressing frustration that nonsense gets more media and public attention than substance.

JLee

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1424 on: January 26, 2017, 09:24:17 AM »
And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

Except it's noise, and distracting from substantive policy discussions, and legitimate criticisms of cabinet appointments. I'd rather see opponents ignore the claims of voter fraud and whatever other nonsense he throws up, and focus on some of the more core issues.

If and when they actually start investigating (doubtful), then criticize the investigation, methods, etc. Right now he's just running his mouth and trying to keep his base amped up.

What policy discussions? I've seen a string of executive orders...not so much discussion.

That's my point. We need to be having actual discussions. Cabinet confirmations need to be discussions. We need to discuss the new legislation Congress is introducing.

We aren't. We're talking about imaginary voter fraud and Melania's dress.

Trump is talking about imaginary voter fraud.  My social circle is far more concerned with the assault on science and communication from other government agencies.

I've heard nothing about Melania's dress. Not sure if that was a red herring or something that's actually happening.

robartsd

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1425 on: January 26, 2017, 09:28:01 AM »
That's my point. We need to be having actual discussions. Cabinet confirmations need to be discussions. We need to discuss the new legislation Congress is introducing.

We aren't. We're talking about imaginary voter fraud and Melania's dress.
On a talk radio program I heard yesterday, the host was discussing the possibility that the Trump administration was using a these dumb things as a strategy to distract from the actual policy making going on in the background.

On voter fraud, it is insanely easy to create a fake voter registration. People have successfully registered and obtained ballots in the name of their pets to demonstrate this. Of course the risks associated with being caught committing voter fraud far outweigh any possible benefit of being successful (unless you're an illegal alien that thinks your risk of deportation hinges on the election's outcome). I just checked my state's voter registration form online, it never asks if you are a citizen (it does ask for place of birth [select state or country], state driver's license/ID card number [or indicate you don't have one], and last four of SSN [or indicate that you don't have one]).  I could see aliens registering without realizing that they're committing voter fraud. Many aliens in my state have SSNs and file state income tax returns (I saw some of those returns when I worked for the tax board in 2000 - the tax board simply issues its own identification number to tax payers where multiple people file with the same SSN, some SSNs have dozens of individual taxpayers). I don't think this happens on the order of 3 million+ people, but it's very difficult for me to believe that there is no voter fraud happening.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1426 on: January 26, 2017, 09:31:15 AM »
I've heard nothing about Melania's dress. Not sure if that was a red herring or something that's actually happening.

Sadly, it is not a red herring.

farmecologist

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1427 on: January 26, 2017, 09:42:34 AM »
And it is Trump himself that is bringing up all these stupidities, like the numbers at the inauguration and the non-existent "voter fraud".  You should be directing your frustration at him, not the people who are rightly and properly pointing out that he is the problem here.

Except it's noise, and distracting from substantive policy discussions, and legitimate criticisms of cabinet appointments. I'd rather see opponents ignore the claims of voter fraud and whatever other nonsense he throws up, and focus on some of the more core issues.

If and when they actually start investigating (doubtful), then criticize the investigation, methods, etc. Right now he's just running his mouth and trying to keep his base amped up.

What policy discussions? I've seen a string of executive orders...not so much discussion.

That's my point. We need to be having actual discussions. Cabinet confirmations need to be discussions. We need to discuss the new legislation Congress is introducing.

We aren't. We're talking about imaginary voter fraud and Melania's dress.

Trump is talking about imaginary voter fraud.  My social circle is far more concerned with the assault on science and communication from other government agencies.

I've heard nothing about Melania's dress. Not sure if that was a red herring or something that's actually happening.


...and if Trump wants to talk about "voter fraud", we also need to talk about voter suppression ( gerrymandering, etc.. ).  I've never heard Trump mention that.





Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1428 on: January 26, 2017, 09:48:19 AM »
The ‘entire senior level’ of State Department management just resigned to avoid working for Trump.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/the-entire-senior-level-of-state-department-management-just-resigned-to-avoid-working-for-trump-report/

MasterStache

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1429 on: January 26, 2017, 10:13:40 AM »
I think voter fraud is largely a non-issue. I mean people talk about it because it's news and adds to the bat shit craziness of the orange monkey. But millions of folks didn't march because of voter fraud or a dress. He's uniting folks, just not in the way he intended.

deadlymonkey

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1430 on: January 26, 2017, 10:27:32 AM »
The ‘entire senior level’ of State Department management just resigned to avoid working for Trump.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/the-entire-senior-level-of-state-department-management-just-resigned-to-avoid-working-for-trump-report/

This is on Washington post too.  Why is this not all over the rest of the news stations!!

robartsd

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1431 on: January 26, 2017, 10:27:58 AM »
The ‘entire senior level’ of State Department management just resigned to avoid working for Trump.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/the-entire-senior-level-of-state-department-management-just-resigned-to-avoid-working-for-trump-report/
I totally understand resigning from the state department - who in their right mind would want to stick around for the job of smoothing things over in international relations every time something offensive shouts out of Trump's mouth?

dragoncar

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1432 on: January 26, 2017, 10:34:17 AM »
It honestly seems like if things continue at this current pace, Trump will effectively cripple the Federal Government within the year.  Regardless of whether you think that's a good thing, this is the first time I'm really worried about what the nation will look like in the medium term - there was always the hope that rational Republicans would be able to guide him away from the biggest mistakes.  Does anyone else have a serious case of "market uncertainty" now or am I reading too much in a bubble (I do try not to hang out in political echo chambers too long)

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1433 on: January 26, 2017, 10:42:14 AM »
What do people think about re-negotiation of NAFTA?

I see labor unions are for making changes.  Some are saying it could hurt national security if we push it too far.  So far I'm thinking it would be beneficial to update the agreement to make trade more balanced and update it for the 21st century.

My worry is that anytime you completel 'scrap' a deal, you run the risk of getting an even worse deal.  Trump is uber-confident that he's the best deal maker, but it's a legitimate concern.  Also an issue is that completely drafting a new deal will almost certainly take a couple of years, tens-of-thousands of staffers time and lots of uncertainty in teh meantime.

Personally, my spouse and I both benefit from NAFTA, since we have been able to study and work in Canada without the visas which would be necessary had we come from elsewhere.  So this interjects a lot of uncertainty into our lives. IMO it would be far better to start within the framework we already have and adjust it as necessary.  SCrapping and starting over is risky, time consuming and costly.

One of the biggest problems I see with NAFTA is that it doesn't mention lots of job categories that simply didn't exist when it was drafted in 1996 (?).  So that clearly needs to be addressed, as does more comprehensive rules on 'guest' and non-resident/temporary workers.

Unique User

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1434 on: January 26, 2017, 11:24:11 AM »
The ‘entire senior level’ of State Department management just resigned to avoid working for Trump.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/the-entire-senior-level-of-state-department-management-just-resigned-to-avoid-working-for-trump-report/

This is on Washington post too.  Why is this not all over the rest of the news stations!!

Reuters is reporting it slightly differently as if it's normal, but who knows what is normal anymore.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/at-least-two-senior-us-state-department-diplomats-leave-posts-officials/ar-AAmhqwj

Gin1984

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1435 on: January 26, 2017, 11:30:13 AM »
The ‘entire senior level’ of State Department management just resigned to avoid working for Trump.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/the-entire-senior-level-of-state-department-management-just-resigned-to-avoid-working-for-trump-report/

This is on Washington post too.  Why is this not all over the rest of the news stations!!

Reuters is reporting it slightly differently as if it's normal, but who knows what is normal anymore.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/at-least-two-senior-us-state-department-diplomats-leave-posts-officials/ar-AAmhqwj
Because it is four people, four important people but still.

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1436 on: January 26, 2017, 11:34:47 AM »
The ‘entire senior level’ of State Department management just resigned to avoid working for Trump.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/the-entire-senior-level-of-state-department-management-just-resigned-to-avoid-working-for-trump-report/

This is on Washington post too.  Why is this not all over the rest of the news stations!!

Reuters is reporting it slightly differently as if it's normal, but who knows what is normal anymore.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/at-least-two-senior-us-state-department-diplomats-leave-posts-officials/ar-AAmhqwj

That's odd, considering this quote:

“It’s the single biggest simultaneous departure of institutional memory that anyone can remember, and that’s incredibly difficult to replicate,” David Wade, who served as State Department chief of staff during John Kerry’s tenure as America’s top diplomat, tells the Post. “Department expertise in security, management, administrative and consular positions in particular are very difficult to replicate and particularly difficult to find in the private sector.”

ysette9

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1437 on: January 26, 2017, 11:54:38 AM »
This might provide context

Quote
Ambassador Richard Boucher, who served as State Department spokesman for Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, said that while there’s always a lot of turnover around the time a new administration takes office, traditionally senior officials work with the new team to see who should stay on in their roles and what other jobs might be available. But that’s not what happened this time.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/26/the-state-departments-entire-senior-management-team-just-resigned/?utm_term=.f75c20272f2f&wpisrc=nl_most-draw10&wpmm=1

Inaya

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1438 on: January 26, 2017, 12:28:50 PM »
Doesn't this ultimately just give Trump the ability to insert even more of His People into important positions?

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1439 on: January 26, 2017, 12:33:06 PM »
Doesn't this ultimately just give Trump the ability to insert even more of His People into important positions?

That was gonna happen anyway. This way it happens without the benefit of the old guard helping the new make the transition. In the meantime, there is no one in those positions at all.

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1440 on: January 26, 2017, 12:37:13 PM »
Doesn't this ultimately just give Trump the ability to insert even more of His People into important positions?
I worry about this, but I also wonder how its going to play out.  If you hire someone who's clearly an outsider or idealouge, he/she won't have the respect of their department and it's very, very hard to get any real productivity out of your department.

This *could* be one method for destroying entire federal agencies; make them so ineffective that you can cut them piecemeal. A combination of "death by attrition + 1,000,000 tiny cuts."  The problem then becomes that these agencies have real functions, and if they become ineffective we lose those functions. We're not going to make deals that are "great for America" if our diplomats and embassies are ineffective and unsupported.

Poundwise

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1441 on: January 26, 2017, 12:48:07 PM »
I am also concerned because it seems to me that civil servants are the only ones now who stand between Trump and illegal behavior. They are the ones who can say "no" or blow the whistle if he steps over the line.

scottish

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1442 on: January 26, 2017, 01:00:32 PM »
Yep, Trump is trying very hard to establish his dominance over the US govt.    This is a typical step for a new executive to take in a company, no reason he wouldn't do it as head of the executive branch.

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1443 on: January 26, 2017, 01:49:04 PM »
News: The Mexican Border Wall will be paid for by a 20% tax on Mexican goods.

How is this not Americans paying for the wall?

bacchi

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1444 on: January 26, 2017, 02:01:55 PM »
News: The Mexican Border Wall will be paid for by a 20% tax on Mexican goods.

How is this not Americans paying for the wall?

Wow, this will not end well for the public or for Trump. He'll have to be damn good (and his supporters will have to be total suckers) to avoid being blamed for a trade war and the resulting economic recession.

waltworks

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1445 on: January 26, 2017, 02:55:48 PM »
Free market/free trade folks must be freaking out. Which I would assume would be a ton of traditional conservatives, since protectionist trade policies are usually seen as a liberal/pro-labor sort of thing.

I'm sort of baffled by the whole thing. Why not just enforce existing laws against hiring illegals better, or increase the penalties?

-W

sol

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1446 on: January 26, 2017, 03:00:47 PM »
Free market/free trade folks must be freaking out. Which I would assume would be a ton of traditional conservatives, since protectionist trade policies are usually seen as a liberal/pro-labor sort of thing.

I'm sort of baffled by the whole thing. Why not just enforce existing laws against hiring illegals better, or increase the penalties?

-W

And penalize businesses?  Never!

Kris

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1447 on: January 26, 2017, 03:23:58 PM »
Free market/free trade folks must be freaking out. Which I would assume would be a ton of traditional conservatives, since protectionist trade policies are usually seen as a liberal/pro-labor sort of thing.

I'm sort of baffled by the whole thing. Why not just enforce existing laws against hiring illegals better, or increase the penalties?

-W

Because he's obsessed with the damn wall. Trump doesn't have coherent policies. Just obsessions and vanity projects.

nereo

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1448 on: January 26, 2017, 03:25:24 PM »
Yes to avocados!
No to angry carrots!

dragoncar

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Re: What are the realistic impacts of a Trump presidency?
« Reply #1449 on: January 26, 2017, 04:43:32 PM »
His core followers need the wall.  They will bend over backwards rationalizing how somehow Mexico is paying for the wall, but if he outright renegs on that promise he could lose his fanatical base.

I think the wall is dumb, but it's hardly his most troubling goal.