Was it always like this?

[TheOldestYoungMan]

I'm getting up there, not quite as young as I once was.

The 2008-2009 financial thing busted my financial cherry as far as the idea that things will always be great all the time and will always get better.  I still believe they will always get better, but I definitely understand that there are low points along the way.

I always did have a decent respect for certain kinds of companies, particularly ones that I felt I understood well.  So the exotic wall street firms, not so much, but the major banks, absolutely.  I was trying to think of the last 12 month stretch where I didn't see some huge screw up with a bank.  This Wells Fargo thing is a total shitshow, current and former employees now talking about how not opening fraudulent accounts got you punished, etc. etc.

Combined with the debacle that is HRC vs Drumpf.

I was just curious if any of you old timers had some perspective on this.  Time was I would talk to my grandfather about it and he would just shake his head and tell me a story of a virtually identical situation from 60 years ago.

I know there have been ridiculous elections in the past, this one does feel like it is setting a new standard though.  I know banks have screwed stuff up in the past.  I'm just curious if this is selection bias on my part (I only read what I seek out after all) or if there really is something wrong with the 50-80 year old crowd that they just decided to totally screw us all over.

[tonysemail]

speaking only of politics, it's been worse than this in the past.
think about how bad things had to be for civil war to break out.
the gridlock and government shutdown is different.
but parties being at each others' throats is nothing new.

[Johnez]

I'm only 30 here, and I'm wondering the same. It feels like nobody is held accountable for crimes or bad judgement anymore. Who would think our presidential candidate choices were between a serial fraudster and a serial liar? Which is worse, fake universities, bribes, charity fraud or setting up an elaborate private server to foil FOIA placing national security at risk and lying about everything else (Benghazi being sparked by a random video-ok!). Gore, Kerry, Bush, McCain, Romney, Obama- none of these guys disgust me as much as these two....

Wells Fargo "fixes" their systemic fraud by firing 5300 EMPLOYEES. Well ok, problem solved! LOL. CEO will take full responsibility of course....!

I feel like the election season is just useless noise. Nobody remembers or cares about Swiftboat, or Bush's National Guard record, Bain Capital, or other sparring points. Perhaps 4-8 years from now, nobody will care about TrumpU or private servers. I think this is a shame really. The two parties don't need to select quality candidates when they know we'll vote for a candidate no matter how deplorable.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

The two parties don't need to select quality candidates when they know we'll vote for a candidate no matter how deplorable.

I don't blame the Republican leadership for the nomination of Trump. That's all on the voters. I do hold them accountable for falling in line lockstep behind him, like a bunch of whipped, neutered puppies.

On the other hand, the Democratic party is completely at fault for the nomination of Hillary. I don't find her particularly disagreeable, and I will be voting for her, but it's pathetic how everyone just stepped aside like she was pre-ordained leader. I knew how her nomination would play out general elections, and it ain't pretty. I look forward to an actual competitive Democratic primary in 2020 or 2024, whichever the case may be.

Back to the OPs point, though: I agree that things just seem worse from a societal perspective than at any point in my life. Even if Trump is defeated, the movement that gave him his power shows no signs of dying. And half of the country will still hate Hillary's guts. I feel like if 9/11 happened today, it would devolve into a blame game shitstorm with everybody pointing fingers at the other side, rather than some sobering, unifying moment that causes us to put aside our differences (not that the temporary bipartisanship that green-lighted the Iraq war panned out so well in retrospect). I'm less optimistic about things now than I was even back in 2008-2010.  Probably just a sign of my youth, though. I don't doubt that things were every bit as turbulent in decades in the past. This election season has been incredibly depressing.

[Jack]

I don't blame the Republican leadership for the nomination of Trump. That's all on the voters. I do hold them accountable for falling in line lockstep behind him, like a bunch of whipped, neutered puppies.\

I absolutely blame the Republican leadership for being so completely delusional and out-of-touch that Trump was deemed acceptable in comparison.

I feel like if 9/11 happened today, it would devolve into a blame game shitstorm with everybody pointing fingers at the other side, rather than some sobering, unifying moment that causes us to put aside our differences (not that the temporary bipartisanship that green-lighted the Iraq war panned out so well in retrospect).

Holy shit, that's what you think 9/11 did?! That is not even slightly what happened. What really happened is that politicians "unified" to leverage our collective panic to advance their (shared) authoritarian agenda and take a huge dump on our civil liberties! In case you didn't notice, the terrorists won.

It's fucking shameful. A "blame game shitstorm" would have been preferable!

[marty998]

On the other hand, the Democratic party is completely at fault for the nomination of Hillary. I don't find her particularly disagreeable, and I will be voting for her, but it's pathetic how everyone just stepped aside like she was pre-ordained leader. I knew how her nomination would play out general elections, and it ain't pretty. I look forward to an actual competitive Democratic primary in 2020 or 2024, whichever the case may be.

How old is she now? 68? You think she'll run again in 2020 at her age? She'll be 76 by the time she leaves office in 2024 that being the case.

(No I'm not commenting on her stamina hehe!!! Just, old people generally pick up a lot of old people problems,)

:)

[ender]

What you are really asking is, "was it always so easy to share information with others?" and the answer to that is absolutely no, it wasn't.

Keep in mind better awareness of problems doesn't necessarily mean there are more problems. It's similar to the world statistically being a far safer place now than it has been - even though many people probably don't feel that way.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

On the other hand, the Democratic party is completely at fault for the nomination of Hillary. I don't find her particularly disagreeable, and I will be voting for her, but it's pathetic how everyone just stepped aside like she was pre-ordained leader. I knew how her nomination would play out general elections, and it ain't pretty. I look forward to an actual competitive Democratic primary in 2020 or 2024, whichever the case may be.

How old is she now? 68? You think she'll run again in 2020 at her age? She'll be 76 by the time she leaves office in 2024 that being the case.

(No I'm not commenting on her stamina hehe!!! Just, old people generally pick up a lot of old people problems,)

:)

If she wins the presidency, I expect her to be the Democratic nominee in 2020. If she loses, then no, she'll never run again.

[MasterStache]

I feel like if 9/11 happened today, it would devolve into a blame game shitstorm with everybody pointing fingers at the other side, rather than some sobering, unifying moment that causes us to put aside our differences (not that the temporary bipartisanship that green-lighted the Iraq war panned out so well in retrospect).

Holy shit, that's what you think 9/11 did?! That is not even slightly what happened. What really happened is that politicians "unified" to leverage our collective panic to advance their (shared) authoritarian agenda and take a huge dump on our civil liberties! In case you didn't notice, the terrorists won.

It's fucking shameful. A "blame game shitstorm" would have been preferable!

+1. And I'll be the first to admit I fell for it hook line and sinker. I was a young dumb warrior at the time though.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I feel like if 9/11 happened today, it would devolve into a blame game shitstorm with everybody pointing fingers at the other side, rather than some sobering, unifying moment that causes us to put aside our differences (not that the temporary bipartisanship that green-lighted the Iraq war panned out so well in retrospect).

Holy shit, that's what you think 9/11 did?! That is not even slightly what happened. What really happened is that politicians "unified" to leverage our collective panic to advance their (shared) authoritarian agenda and take a huge dump on our civil liberties! In case you didn't notice, the terrorists won.

It's fucking shameful. A "blame game shitstorm" would have been preferable!

+1. And I'll be the first to admit I fell for it hook line and sinker. I was a young dumb warrior at the time though.

[tonysemail]

here is an article which agrees that political polarization was bad in the distant past.
It argues that congress was highly polarized for most of history and it's only the recent era since WW2 that exhibited bi-partisanship.
Unfortunately, that seems to imply WW3 would be the remedy =/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/01/16/our-politics-may-be-polarized-but-thats-nothing-new/

"These data are another way of making the same point other scholars make about the high levels of polarization we have today—but it highlights more clearly the fact that today’s polarization is a return to the historic norm of polarization. From the Civil War to World War II, there was no meaningful overlap in Congress. Taking this view, we realize that it is the immediate post-WWII era that is really unusual."

[Curbside Prophet]

Wells Fargo is nothing, take a look at what JP Morgan has done over the last few years and the fines they've paid.  It dwarfs WF.

[tooqk4u22]

On the other hand, the Democratic party is completely at fault for the nomination of Hillary. I don't find her particularly disagreeable, and I will be voting for her, but it's pathetic how everyone just stepped aside like she was pre-ordained leader. I knew how her nomination would play out general elections, and it ain't pretty. I look forward to an actual competitive Democratic primary in 2020 or 2024, whichever the case may be.

How old is she now? 68? You think she'll run again in 2020 at her age? She'll be 76 by the time she leaves office in 2024 that being the case.

(No I'm not commenting on her stamina hehe!!! Just, old people generally pick up a lot of old people problems,)

:)

Yeah but Chelsea will be ready by 2024.

[Tom Bri]

In answer to the original question, things have been this bad, and fairly recently too. The 1980s had the Savings & Loan scandals, although I believe a few execs actually did get prosecuted in that one. The big change this time around is how the fed-gov bailed out most everyone at the top.

This sort of thing is cyclic. The young guys never remember the lessons of the past, and the older guys are strong-armed into a short-term outlook. If some are not too honest or civic-minded to begin with, they can rapidly rise in that environment.

[acroy]

OP, young you must be, or not read much history...
History may not repeat exactly, but it sure rhymes. We have new people committing the same old recycled crimes. The tune never changes....

[Rubic]

At the risk of deflating OP's pessimism, from Warren Buffett's recent
annual shareholder letter:

"American GDP per capita is now about $56,000. As I mentioned last year
that – in real terms – is a staggering six times the amount in 1930, the year
I was born, a leap far beyond the wildest dreams of my parents or their
contemporaries."
...
"All families in my upper middle-class neighborhood regularly enjoy a living
standard better than that achieved by John D. Rockefeller Sr. at the time of
my birth. His unparalleled fortune couldn’t buy what we now take for granted,
whether the field is – to name just a few – transportation, entertainment,
communication or medical services. Rockefeller certainly had power and
fame; he could not, however, live as well as my neighbors now do."


So much for the United States.  How about elsewhere in the world?

In 1990, more than 60% of people in East Asia were in extreme poverty.
Now only 3.5% are.

http://www.vox.com/world/2016/10/2/13123980/extreme-poverty-world-bank

In the entire recorded history of the world, we have never seen changes
of this magnitude.  The future's so bright I gotta wear shades.

[Metric Mouse]

OP, young you must be, or not read much history...
History may not repeat exactly, but it sure rhymes. We have new people committing the same old recycled crimes. The tune never changes....

Right? Same with people who think the world is getting worse, or that it's not better than it was.  Statistics and facts and history and almost all measuerable data say otherwise; thinking things are getting worse is... odd.

But it could be pointed out that often people who think the world is getting worse really mean it's getting worse for them.  Which may be true; people on the wrong side of history are probably pretty unhappy.