using tick repellent after exposure?

[uniwelder]

I'm wondering how effective tick repellent (DEET, picaridin, eucalyptus, permethrin) is if applied after already being out in tall grass/brush.  I couldn't find any good information about this.

The issue came up because I went outside the house for a few minutes yesterday, walked through some brush, noticed a couple of ticks crawling on me and picked them off.  With fear of Lyme disease, my wife looked me over and for good measure I sprayed repellent on my arms, legs, and neck.  The thinking is that they're probably still looking for a place to bite after only a few minutes, so they'd probably drop off.

Does this seem reasonable?  If its effective, how long after the fact can repellent be applied?  I guess once they've bitten, they might not care about repellent at that point.

[Morning Glory]

I haven't found any repellant to be effective for ticks. I called triage once because my husband had a bullseye rash, and they told me he would have a fever if it was Lyme's. I was also told that the tick had to be on for quite some time to cause Lyme's, so if you pull them off a few hours after they bite you will probably be fine (this was from my ob when my dog had Lyme's and I was pregnant and had several tick bites from the same trip). I've had pets bring in ticks and transfer them to the kids too. I check my kids daily during tick season. My son had one in his ear once.

My cousin had Lyme's and never realized she had a tick bite, so it took her a long time to get diagnosed and she was really sick.

[uniwelder]

The general guideline I've heard of to contract Lyme disease is that it needs to be attached for about 24 hours.  During the initial period, the tick is sucking your blood, and then after its filled, it regurgitates some back into your system, which is when disease spreads.

I've found sprays to be effective, as far as I know.  When I do actually apply it, I've never noticed ticks attach to me.  I have found them crawling and then pull them off, but I'd optimistically hope they'd have dropped off at some point anyway.

Sorry about your cousin.  There's a vaccine in trials now, so hopefully will become available.  From what I understood, the old vaccine Lymerix that was pulled was effective.  I'd very much like to get one--- Lyme disease is very prevalent in my area.

[draco44]

A lot will depend on the particular product your are using, and what active ingredient it contains. Read the instructions for the specific product and follow them. This sounds elementary, but it really matters.

For example, one thing that stood out to me in your post is that you mention applying the product to your skin directly. If you are using a DEET- or picardin-based product that may help, but if you are using a permethrin-based tick repellent spray product, this could be basically useless because the permethrin products are typically designed to be sprayed on your clothing, not your skin, and will break down quickly if applied to skin (think like 15 minutes) and then not do anything. If, however, you spray the same product over your shoes/socks and lower portion of your pant legs, you might be over 70x less likely to be bitten by a tick (https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/permethrin-protect-from-ticks/). Ticks most often get on you from ground or grass-level and crawl up your body, rather than falling on to you and working their way down, so protecting your feet and legs by wearing long pants tucked into socks is a solid strategy, whether or not you add a chemical repellent on top.

For the Sawyer line of tick-repellent products, for example, the company notes "The warning labels on the cans or bottles are often misunderstood. Your skin metabolizes, or breaks down, Permethrin within fifteen minutes of contact with skin. Therefore, it is of no value to you as a personal protection insect repellent when applied to the skin. In addition, the EPA precautionary statement, “Do Not Apply to Skin” indicates that Permethrin is ineffective when applied to skin; therefore, do not apply to skin." Again, read the directions for your particular product.

Also, the same product might offer differing levels of protection for different target pests. I'm seen claims, for example, for certain DEET products that they might help repel mosquitoes for as long as 12 hours, but ticks for only 8 hours.

Once you've been bitten by a tick, applying additional repellent won't help you against that particular tick. If anything, you might do harm by introducing the repellent product into a wound and irritating your skin. You'll need to pull the tick off using tweezers. Try to keep the tick whole as you pull it off rather than crushing it, then save the tick in a small plastic sandwich bag so you can show it later to a doctor or entomologist. Different species of tick can be vectors of different diseases, so showing a professional the tick that bit you can help a professional assess what risks you might have been exposed to.

Here's some links for further reading if you are so inclined:
https://nymag.com/strategist/article/effective-tick-repellents.html
https://magazine.medlineplus.gov/article/understanding-and-preventing-tick-bites
https://www.consumerreports.org/insect-repellent/how-to-use-permethrin-on-clothing-safely/
https://www.epa.gov/pesp/reducing-risk-tick-borne-diseases-through-smart-safe-and-sustainable-pest-control
http://npic.orst.edu/pest/tick/index.html
https://www.epa.gov/insect-repellents/find-repellent-right-you
https://www.cdc.gov/ticks/

[Roland of Gilead]

Ticks are insane this year.  I was out for about an hour in the woods but walking on a gravel road, actually checking my legs every few minutes even so, just to make sure nothing was crawling on me.  Got back to the car and STILL had a tick crawling on my neck.

Same thing happened again the next day, but in less than a 20 min visit to our pole barn.

I would think every single kid in our area has Lyme by now...

[draco44]

Just saw @uniwelder 's comment - Yes, you get exposed to diseases in the tick when when some of the fluids inside it backflow into you while it's biting you. That's why it's important to pull an attached tick off whole rather than squeezing or crushing it to kill the tick. The crushing can push more fluid from the tick into you.

[uniwelder]

@draco44 I just looked through most of those links, but still leaves me with the question of how to remove ticks that might be crawling on me, but not yet attached.  Everything seems to focus on prevention--- treated clothes, sprays, tucking pants into socks, visual check, etc.  Once a tick is noticed, the recommendation is to remove with tweezers.

Is there something that can be done for the ticks you can't find?  Assuming its early enough they haven't attached yet.  I saw mention that permethrin is used in lice shampoo, but no recommendation of using that to get rid of ticks, except for some random websites where individuals talk about using it themselves.

What is your area of study/work?  Entomologist? Something else tick related?  I didn't expect to get such an expansive answer back about repellents and ticks, but the people on the forums here are quite surprising.

[Morning Glory]

I have another month until tick season here lol. I'm no expert, I've just dealt with a lot of them.  I have never bothered to save the tick. I stopped bothering to go find the tweezers and just pull them off with my hand, unless they are in a hard-to-reach spot.  I do make sure to flush them down the toilet because I have seen them crawl back out of a drain before and a toilet tick just sounds gross.  One more reason to move back to town.

[FINate]

You're probably fine, but do a careful check of your body for ticks.

Treat your outdoor clothes/hats/shoes with permethrin. Once dry it's odorless and effective for ~6 weeks. Wear long sleeves and pants, then treat exposed skin with picaridin before going out which is typically good for 6-8 hrs. The combo of permethrin and picaridin works, I no longer have ticks on me after crawling around in the brush while hunting. And bonus, it repeals most other biting bugs. DEET also works, but I hate it.

[Roland of Gilead]

The problem with DEET is you really need to wash it off because it eats up the finish on a lot of materials.   I had put some on my arms and a hour or two later sat on our leather sofa, a bit sweaty.  The DEET ate the finish off of the leather, leaving a nice permanent arm mark on the sofa rest.

[draco44]

@draco44 I just looked through most of those links, but still leaves me with the question of how to remove ticks that might be crawling on me, but not yet attached.  Everything seems to focus on prevention--- treated clothes, sprays, tucking pants into socks, visual check, etc.  Once a tick is noticed, the recommendation is to remove with tweezers.

Is there something that can be done for the ticks you can't find?  Assuming its early enough they haven't attached yet.  I saw mention that permethrin is used in lice shampoo, but no recommendation of using that to get rid of ticks, except for some random websites where individuals talk about using it themselves.

What is your area of study/work?  Entomologist? Something else tick related?  I didn't expect to get such an expansive answer back about repellents and ticks, but the people on the forums here are quite surprising.

Hi OP: If a tick is crawling around on you but is not attached, there's two basic scenarios: either it just got there or it's already bitten you and is leaving. The first scenario is much more likely because the m.o. for full ticks is to detatch and let themselves just fall off their host. A tick that's had a blood meal will be engorged and look bigger and rounder than a hungry one.

If you find an unengorged tick crawling on you once you're inside, the standard advice is pick it up with tweezers or gloved hands and dispose of it either by flushing it down the toilet or wrapping it in a bit of tape and throwing the tick away. Outside if you don't want to dispose of the tick you can brush them off, but don't do it with bare hands. You want to avoid their mouthparts touching you at all.

To find ticks on you that you can't see, having someone else do a tick check on you is ideal. Taking a normal shower soon after coming inside helps too.

I don't like to advertise my job on forums, but I hope that if the length of my earlier answer was a surprise to you, it was a pleasant one.

[Roots&Wings]

Recently encountered a nest of nymph stage deer ticks on a camping trip - ended up with a dozen large bite welts and a round of doxycycline antibiotics. They were miniscule tan lumps that blended in really well and itch like hell in case anyone ever has the joy to encounter nymph stage ticks (I had no idea what they were). Anyway, now have the Sawyer's permethrin for future trips.

And the doctor said to do a thorough check of skin, put clothes in hot dryer for 15 mins before washing, dogs had tick baths and the house treated by pest company with permethrin.

[big_owl]

Man I had lymes disease for almost ten years before it was finally diagnosed and treated.  It sucked.  I'm very outdoorsy and am always in tick territory.  Luckily ticks are slow and nothing really happens fast with them.  Usually I detect them crawling on me but maybe because I'm a guy and have more leg hair it feels noticeable when they move.  I've found just doing a thorough check before the shower when I've been outside is adequate for me.  Especially around the underwear line and I also pay close attention around the edge of my hair on the back of my head.  If one gets in my back then I usually won't feel if move - no hair on my back luckily!

[Roots&Wings]

Detecting a nymph or larva stage tick crawling on you is much more difficult than a full grown tick:

[Fireball]

Recently encountered a nest of nymph stage deer ticks on a camping trip - ended up with a dozen large bite welts and a round of doxycycline antibiotics. They were miniscule tan lumps that blended in really well and itch like hell in case anyone ever has the joy to encounter nymph stage ticks (I had no idea what they were). Anyway, now have the Sawyer's permethrin for future trips.

And the doctor said to do a thorough check of skin, put clothes in hot dryer for 15 mins before washing, dogs had tick baths and the house treated by pest company with permethrin.

I used to trail run quite a bit and occasionally would get into a nest of what are called "seed ticks" (nymphs actually) locally.  Last one I ran through, I stopped counting at 175 bites on my legs.  Those jerks are ferocious.

[Roots&Wings]

@Fireball that sounds like hell! You really lucked out to not get sick. I think I read somewhere that nymph stage ticks are more likely to transmit disease (shorter attachment time), but can't find it now.

[scottish]

Recently encountered a nest of nymph stage deer ticks on a camping trip - ended up with a dozen large bite welts and a round of doxycycline antibiotics. They were miniscule tan lumps that blended in really well and itch like hell in case anyone ever has the joy to encounter nymph stage ticks (I had no idea what they were). Anyway, now have the Sawyer's permethrin for future trips.

And the doctor said to do a thorough check of skin, put clothes in hot dryer for 15 mins before washing, dogs had tick baths and the house treated by pest company with permethrin.

I used to trail run quite a bit and occasionally would get into a nest of what are called "seed ticks" (nymphs actually) locally.  Last one I ran through, I stopped counting at 175 bites on my legs.  Those jerks are ferocious.

I wound up doing the same thing - woke up in the morning in my tent and my pillow had these little tiny dots crawling all over it.   They were really tiny though, I could only see them on my leg (with a magnifying glass) when they bloated up.   I've always suspected they were larva, but I'm not sure.   Anyway, I updated for the prophylatic antibiotics dose after that one.

[Morning Glory]

Recently encountered a nest of nymph stage deer ticks on a camping trip - ended up with a dozen large bite welts and a round of doxycycline antibiotics. They were miniscule tan lumps that blended in really well and itch like hell in case anyone ever has the joy to encounter nymph stage ticks (I had no idea what they were). Anyway, now have the Sawyer's permethrin for future trips.

And the doctor said to do a thorough check of skin, put clothes in hot dryer for 15 mins before washing, dogs had tick baths and the house treated by pest company with permethrin.

I used to trail run quite a bit and occasionally would get into a nest of what are called "seed ticks" (nymphs actually) locally.  Last one I ran through, I stopped counting at 175 bites on my legs.  Those jerks are ferocious.

I wound up doing the same thing - woke up in the morning in my tent and my pillow had these little tiny dots crawling all over it.   They were really tiny though, I could only see them on my leg (with a magnifying glass) when they bloated up.   I've always suspected they were larva, but I'm not sure.   Anyway, I updated for the prophylatic antibiotics dose after that one.

Growing up, we put clear nail polish on those. It suffocates them and protects your skin when you scratch.
 
Around here they don't do prophylactic antibiotics, and they only test for lyme if you have a fever AND a bullseye rash. I called triage b/c my husband had the rash but they said he had to have a fever too.