Author Topic: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket  (Read 1025 times)

Samuel

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Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« on: December 12, 2018, 09:42:01 AM »
Interesting article in Politico this morning, floating the idea of a Biden/Romney (or other "principled conservative") 3rd party run for the White House, limited to one term, and dedicated to addressing the "ticking time bomb" issues that the current hyper partisan government seems incapable of making any progress on.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/12/11/biden-2020-running-mate-romney-222861

As a center left guy who hates Trump but also sees huge electoral danger (at least for near term Presidential elections) in the leftward lurch of the Democratic side this idea sparks my interest. Although, admittedly, I may just be enthralled by the very West Wingy grand statesmanship of it all.


Is this as crazy as it sounds, or could there be something there?

Boofinator

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2018, 10:13:47 AM »
This is absolutely crazy. No way to rile up the tribal elements which are key to winning elections.

I'd say I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but this third party ticket would undoubtedly siphon off voters from the more pragmatic candidate, and hence cementing the status quo.

Samuel

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2018, 10:43:54 AM »
This is absolutely crazy. No way to rile up the tribal elements which are key to winning elections.

I'd say I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but this third party ticket would undoubtedly siphon off voters from the more pragmatic candidate, and hence cementing the status quo.

Ordinarily I'd completely agree with you (and the last thing I want is to split the left in a way that reelects Trump), but I thought the article laid out a credible case as to why the current situation is unusual enough that there could be a viable path. Hence my curiosity.

Did you read the article? It actually addressed most of my knee jerk reasons to discount the idea out of hand. Not sold by any means, but seems worth exploring.

AccidentalMiser

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2018, 10:47:58 AM »
Is this as crazy as it sounds, or could there be something there?

Yes on both counts, although I wouldnít vote for this ticket unless the order was flipped.

Highly likely I wonít be voting for president in 2020 just like I didnít in 2016.

Norioch

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2018, 10:52:36 AM »
This is a ridiculous idea. Biden is pretty far down on my list of Democrats I'd like to see get the nomination in 2020 (though I'd still vote for him over any Republican in a heartbeat) and him having Romney as his VP doesn't sweeten the deal. If this ticket was offered instead of a straight Democratic ticket then I'd be pissed that the Democratic offering was so paltry. If this ticket was offered in addition to a Warren/Sanders ticket then they would just split the Democratic vote and ensure a Republican victory. And I'm pretty sure neither Biden or Romney would have any political desire to pair up this way anyway. There's no upside.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 10:55:54 AM by Norioch »

Cassie

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2018, 10:53:22 AM »
Itís a interesting idea. I would vote for them.

GuitarStv

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2018, 10:53:32 AM »
Is this as crazy as it sounds, or could there be something there?

Yes on both counts, although I wouldnít vote for this ticket unless the order was flipped.

Highly likely I wonít be voting for president in 2020 just like I didnít in 2016.

You should at least throw your vote away on a third party candidate most closely aligned with your personal views.  Not voting at all is an abdication of responsibility.

Boofinator

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2018, 11:15:04 AM »
This is absolutely crazy. No way to rile up the tribal elements which are key to winning elections.

I'd say I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but this third party ticket would undoubtedly siphon off voters from the more pragmatic candidate, and hence cementing the status quo.

Ordinarily I'd completely agree with you (and the last thing I want is to split the left in a way that reelects Trump), but I thought the article laid out a credible case as to why the current situation is unusual enough that there could be a viable path. Hence my curiosity.

Did you read the article? It actually addressed most of my knee jerk reasons to discount the idea out of hand. Not sold by any means, but seems worth exploring.

I hadn't read the article. Now after reading it, my pondered reaction matches my knee-jerk reaction. The article doesn't give much of a reason except to say Biden is popular. So was Roosevelt in 1912. And that a split electoral college can move the election to the Democratic house. How often has that happened? (It's easy to split the popular vote, much more difficult to do so to the electoral college.)

What little historical knowledge I have about third-party elections, the winner tends to be the one that can most unify the base. Any fracturing of the base tends to end badly: I'm thinking 1860, 1912, and 1992. A (close) exception might be 1948, where the democratic party survived the southern fracture.

I agree McCain should have gone with Lieberman over Palin (he would have probably received my vote). The difference though was that McCain was a major party nominee.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2018, 11:39:51 AM »
Ooh, that's tough... 
With the number of times Pence has voted in the Senate, I wouldn't want to vote Romney into that position.

But it sure as hell is better than what we have.

Chris22

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 12:08:57 PM »
I like Biden, and would cross the aisle to vote for him, but he'll be ~78 in 2020.  Sorry, that's just too old.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 12:12:01 PM »
I like Biden, and would cross the aisle to vote for him, but he'll be ~78 in 2020.  Sorry, that's just too old.

So wouldn't it just be a vote for Romney then?

Chris22

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 12:13:27 PM »
I like Biden, and would cross the aisle to vote for him, but he'll be ~78 in 2020.  Sorry, that's just too old.

So wouldn't it just be a vote for Romney then?

Which kills the cross-party thing, makes it less appealing to the left.  Who are the prominent,  moderate +/- 50y/o Dems?

PDXTabs

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2018, 12:16:11 PM »
I'd say I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but this third party ticket would undoubtedly siphon off voters from the more pragmatic candidate, and hence cementing the status quo.

As someone that leans very left, I'd say that it sounds very pragmatic to have a ticket smack dab in the center with tons of name recognition.

nessness

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2018, 12:43:11 PM »
Nah. I think what the recent congressional election taught is that we need candidates who will energize young people, and a 78-year-old moderate white man who's been in politics for decades won't do that. I also think his handling of the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearing, plus his general creepiness with women, would be significant problems in the #metoo era.

And I think there are too many Republicans who would never vote for someone with a D attached to their name, and vice versa, for a cross-party ticket to work.

Snake P. Jenga

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 12:49:54 PM »
A unity ticket? With Mr. 49%? On a bid specifically designed to splinter the Democratic and Republican bases? This person is trolling us.

This ticket would ensure Trump is reelected.

Trump has a strong base within the Republican party. How many Republicans are going to vote for Obama's VP at the top of the ticket? They would primarily draw independents and centrist Democrats.

One of the reasons Democrats did so well in the midterms is because of high support among independents. This ticket would destroy that advantage.

And instead of Democrats having a unified front against Trump, this would cause the in-fighting to end all in-fighting.

Quote
Biden-led bipartisan ticket would pledge to serve a Cincinnatus-like single term and address all of the U.S.ís ticking time bombs like Social Security, Medicare, health care reform, climate change, money in politics, immigration, gerrymandering and infrastructure investment in four years.

OH IS THAT ALL? Just swoop in, with a split Congress and split executive branch, and solve allll of America's problems in 4 years? And then NOT RUN AGAIN?

Suuure.

Quote
Other Democratic candidates with more ambition than ability to win a general election against Donald Trump will inexorably and gleefully erode his standing by rehashing the Anita Hill hearings, pushing him to the left on domestic policy and endlessly reminding voters of his support for the Gulf War.

Oh yes, let's wait until the general election and let both Trump AND the Democrats slam Biden on these things AND remind voters of Romney's bs.

Progressives would attack them for being too centrist. Establishment Dems would attack them for threatening party unity. Moderate Republicans would attack Biden for everything Obama ever did and want Romney at the top of the ticket. And Trump's base will attack them for some fanciful conspiracy theory about eating human babies or something.

FIRE@50

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2018, 12:58:39 PM »
I support adding more age restrictions to the Constitution, so I couldn't support that ticket.

Car Jack

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2018, 01:00:37 PM »
Who would the Democratic nominee be?

Romney certainly would the the subject of endless memes.
- Creator of Obamacare (we have Romneycare in Massachusetts)
- Sacrificial lamb GOP candidate against Ted Kennedy for Senate (yah, like that would work)
- Comes out of nowhere and essentially pushes acting Governor Jane Swift (GOP) into the Charles and takes over.  (although Jane Swift was the biggest loser ever known to man)

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2018, 01:10:32 PM »
Quote from: Chris22 link=topic=100215.msg2228119#msg2228119
Which kills the cross-party thing, makes it less appealing to the left.  Who are the prominent,  moderate +/- 50y/o Dems?
Right now, that would be O'Rourke and maybe Harris. O'Rourke also has the interesting advantage of being able to do almost as poorly as Clinton in the Electoral College and still win so long as he carries his home state.
https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/3633/Who-will-win-the-2020-Democratic-presidential-nomination
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 01:12:12 PM by YttriumNitrate »

PathtoFIRE

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2018, 01:22:13 PM »
Just going to point out this is written by someone on the board for the Biden Institute.

Johnez

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2018, 02:19:52 PM »
Romney/Biden is better. There are tons of Republicans who held their nose and voted Trump, this ticket would give them a way out, both for a republican AND against Trump. The Mormonism might be problematic tho... Kinda sad really.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2018, 02:37:10 PM »
I'd vote for Biden in a heartbeat. And I've already voted for Romney once, before 2016 turned me into a Democrat for good. So yeah, I'd probably vote for this ticket. But I'm not sure it'd have the wide-scale popularity that the author thinks. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think that I am. Most people who vote seem pretty damn entrenched it their own party.

Snake P. Jenga

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2018, 03:20:43 PM »
Romney/Biden is better. There are tons of Republicans who held their nose and voted Trump, this ticket would give them a way out, both for a republican AND against Trump. The Mormonism might be problematic tho... Kinda sad really.

Trump has a high approval rating among Republicans. It's around 90% right now. Let's say it drops to 80 by 2020. Of the remaining 20%, half still vote for Trump because lesser evil, and half vote Romney/Biden. That's 10% of Republicans.

Assume a generous 50% of independents vote for them, and 5% of Democrats.

This still loses HARD.

Johnez

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2018, 05:31:06 PM »
I was probably thinking about the primaries and the Never Trump movement.

I'd like to see a Ross Perot type candidate come up. It seems 2020 might be a good opportunity for third party. Too bad Elon Musk isn't American born. :-/

carolina822

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2018, 06:53:04 PM »
Romney is old and he lost. He needs to shut up and go away. And Biden is just old. So yeah, shut up and go away too because nobody wants to hear what old men have to say about anything.

What's that, you mean it's only old women like Clinton and Pelosi that are supposed to retire to their knitting circle?

GuitarStv

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2018, 07:28:34 AM »
I was probably thinking about the primaries and the Never Trump movement.

I'd like to see a Ross Perot type candidate come up. It seems 2020 might be a good opportunity for third party. Too bad Elon Musk isn't American born. :-/

That shouldn't be a problem.  Obama was a secret Kenyan Muslim and he got elected.  (And then the man who steadfastly told us all that Obama was a secret Kenyan Muslim in defiance of all evidence got elected too.  :P  )

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2018, 09:08:26 AM »
I'm sure I am one of the few Republicans here but more to the Center so would love to see a Democratic/Republican ticket BUT not the two names mentioned because I agree with those we need some younger energized peeps in the WH. Also as I see already happening on this thread there would just be a fight of Wanting the Dem or the Republican as the President. I think it be awesome but bet we have another civil war before that happens. I'm ready for a good strong third party candidate.

Dee18

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2018, 01:00:48 PM »
No third party has won the presidency since George Washington.  I think a third party candidate would guarantee Trumpís re-election.  Also, Biden is 76 and Romney is 71. The oldest president previously elected was was Reagan at 73, our Alzheimerís president.   

MDfive21

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2018, 01:08:00 PM »
a true Unity Party ticket would be Donald Trump / Bernie Sanders.  i actually joked with my coworkers about that when the DNC fucking of Bernie became news.  i don't normally bet, but i would bet money that Trump/Sanders would slaughter any opposition.

The problem with any of these tickets is that the VP is only as powerful as the Pres allows him to be.  so on one extreme, you can have a Dick Cheney running the show from his undisclosed location, or a glorified dinner host on the other.  mostly it's somewhere in between, but VP is not a visibly or constitutionally powerful position.  so how do you convince someone to ditch his/her party and be the 2nd dog?  you'd only get 2nd dogs when you really need 2 Alpha dogs to make the combined ticket work.

Dabnasty

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2018, 02:31:53 PM »
a true Unity Party ticket would be Donald Trump / Bernie Sanders.  i actually joked with my coworkers about that when the DNC fucking of Bernie became news.  i don't normally bet, but i would bet money that Trump/Sanders would slaughter any opposition.

The problem with any of these tickets is that the VP is only as powerful as the Pres allows him to be.  so on one extreme, you can have a Dick Cheney running the show from his undisclosed location, or a glorified dinner host on the other.  mostly it's somewhere in between, but VP is not a visibly or constitutionally powerful position.  so how do you convince someone to ditch his/her party and be the 2nd dog?  you'd only get 2nd dogs when you really need 2 Alpha dogs to make the combined ticket work.

https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/289591-no-bernie-supporters-you-werent-cheated

If there was more to this idea that the DNC cheated Sanders please fill me in, but the fact that members of the DNC preferred Hillary was a non-issue. Bernie supporters who got riled up by this played right into Trump's hands, he wanted a fractured democratic party.

Also seems relevant:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/02/bernie-sanders-defends-hillary-clinton-recording

To stay on topic a Hillary/Bernie ticket would probably have won too.

MDfive21

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2018, 03:07:26 PM »
Adjust that to "perceived dnc f-ing" then. I didn't really dig into it but heard a lot of noise from Bernie people saying to vote Trump instead of Hilary

I 100% agree that Clinton Sanders would have beat Trump.

Comey didn't help matters either but it was a perfect play to link Hillary with emails and with disgraced Weiner in the minds of voters.  The cynical side of me wonders who paid him and how much for that hit...

GuitarStv

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2018, 07:09:21 AM »
Adjust that to "perceived dnc f-ing" then. I didn't really dig into it but heard a lot of noise from Bernie people saying to vote Trump instead of Hilary

Given that Trump stands in stark opposition to everything that Bernie believes in, I suspect that the 'noise' was probably not heard from 'Bernie people'.

MasterStache

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2018, 07:27:56 AM »
Adjust that to "perceived dnc f-ing" then. I didn't really dig into it but heard a lot of noise from Bernie people saying to vote Trump instead of Hilary

Given that Trump stands in stark opposition to everything that Bernie believes in, I suspect that the 'noise' was probably not heard from 'Bernie people'.

Agreed. I was a Bernie supporter. He was an "outsider" like Trump but on a completely different side of the Universe in terms of policy. Sanders actually seemed to you know, care about everyone, not just old rich white guys. 

MDfive21

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2018, 07:54:32 AM »
https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

12% seems significant enough to mention.

and weren't there bernie or bust people who were advocating voting against hillary?  https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/bernie-or-bust-clinton/488276/

i dunno.  this is going off topic so i'll stop. 

Gondolin

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2018, 08:46:18 AM »
Quote
Elon Musk isn't American born.

Ha. Elon would be only a slight improvement over Trump. As he wouldnít be an actual criminal. Beyond that...

GuitarStv

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2018, 08:47:25 AM »
https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

12% seems significant enough to mention.

and weren't there bernie or bust people who were advocating voting against hillary?  https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/bernie-or-bust-clinton/488276/

i dunno.  this is going off topic so i'll stop.

I suspect that these people were simply voting against the political establishment rather than interested in what Sanders (or Trump) really had to say.  That would explain the voting for people with polar opposite ideas and policies . . . it wasn't about the policy at all.

Chris22

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2018, 08:51:57 AM »
Adjust that to "perceived dnc f-ing" then. I didn't really dig into it but heard a lot of noise from Bernie people saying to vote Trump instead of Hilary

Given that Trump stands in stark opposition to everything that Bernie believes in, I suspect that the 'noise' was probably not heard from 'Bernie people'.

Agreed. I was a Bernie supporter. He was an "outsider" like Trump but on a completely different side of the Universe in terms of policy. Sanders actually seemed to you know, care about everyone, not just old rich white guys.

Say what you will about the likelihood of it happening, but Trump stood in front of a TON of blue collar workers and told them he'd bring them more jobs, better jobs, higher paying jobs.  And Trump addressed these people in a way they are receptive to (I will give you an opportunity to work to improve your life) unlike Bernie who promised to take care of people in a way many DON'T like (I'll take money from other people/the government and give you money and things). 

So if you want to argue Trump only seemed to care about old rich white guys, I think that's patently false.  If you want to say Trump fed blue collar workers a line of bullshit, yeah, that's fair, but remember his opponent either ignored them or openly disdained them. 

So I do see how on some levels, Bernie and Trump might both appeal to the same person.

J Boogie

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2018, 08:58:06 AM »
No third party has won the presidency since George Washington.  I think a third party candidate would guarantee Trumpís re-election.  Also, Biden is 76 and Romney is 71. The oldest president previously elected was was Reagan at 73, our Alzheimerís president.

Wow! Romney ages well. You could have said 58 and I would have believed it.

Trump was the oldest president when first elected. Reagan was elected at 73 for his second term. So if Trump gets reelected, he'll be the oldest president.

lemonlyman

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Re: Biden/Romney 3rd Party Unity Ticket
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2018, 08:59:21 AM »
Given that Trump stands in stark opposition to everything that Bernie believes in, I suspect that the 'noise' was probably not heard from 'Bernie people'.

Except Trade policy which is a big reason I didn't care for Sanders. Though I didn't care for him for many other policies as well. Trade policy was a huge deal in the Midwest in 2016. I think Sanders folk in Michigan and Ohio did listen.

With the current field, I would vote for this ticket. I'm not a pragmatic voter. I vote for who I think would do the best job. I voted Johnson in 2016.