Author Topic: United States of Russia?  (Read 207526 times)

GuitarStv

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1050 on: November 30, 2017, 12:48:26 PM »
What would the USA look like the GOP and their supporters got everything they wanted? Feudal Europe? A dictatorship?

Russia.  The USA would look a lot more like Russia, if the GOP got everything they wanted.  A corrupt oligarchy where power and wealth are concentrated among the political allies of the defacto emperor-for-life.  Democracy treated as a farce, a public tool subverted by state corruption.  Murder of political adversaries routinely carried out in public.  Warlike expansion undertaken in the name of patriotism.  Most of the nation too deeply impoverished to care about anything but survival, while the favored political elite become the wealthiest individuals in the planet.  Bears everywhere.

The republican turnaround on Russia is like in those romantic comedies where two people hate each other to ridiculous levels, but then discover that they're really the same inside and end up super happy together.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1051 on: November 30, 2017, 12:51:04 PM »
What would the USA look like the GOP and their supporters got everything they wanted? Feudal Europe? A dictatorship?

Russia.  The USA would look a lot more like Russia, if the GOP got everything they wanted.  A corrupt oligarchy where power and wealth are concentrated among the political allies of the defacto emperor-for-life.  Democracy treated as a farce, a public tool subverted by state corruption.  Murder of political adversaries routinely carried out in public.  Warlike expansion undertaken in the name of patriotism.  Most of the nation too deeply impoverished to care about anything but survival, while the favored political elite become the wealthiest individuals in the planet.  Bears everywhere.
+1
(adding) .... state controlled media as the only individuals given access, and their reports thoroughly pre-vetted.  High-profile federal positions given to sycophants who lack any experience in the agencies they are now tasked to run. Unquestioning fealty towards the military. Critics slandered with impunity. ...

Paul der Krake

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1052 on: November 30, 2017, 02:22:07 PM »
I can get behind more bears.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1053 on: November 30, 2017, 02:45:09 PM »
I can get behind more bears.
You know where there are lots of bears but not all that other stuff Sol listed?  Canada.

Glenstache

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1054 on: November 30, 2017, 02:57:00 PM »
I can get behind more bears.
You know where there are lots of bears but not all that other stuff Sol listed?  Canada.
This page will provide much useful information for the more-bears scenario.
https://www.bearmageddonnews.com/

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1055 on: November 30, 2017, 04:03:31 PM »
I can get behind more bears.
You know where there are lots of bears but not all that other stuff Sol listed?  Canada.
This page will provide much useful information for the more-bears scenario.
https://www.bearmageddonnews.com/

Well that was a corner of the internet I had not ventured into yet...

hoping2retire35

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1056 on: December 01, 2017, 06:33:34 AM »
reminds me of
http://www.exoticmeatmarkets.com/

Hey, you don't even have to travel to get your lion meat; can't beat that price.

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1057 on: December 01, 2017, 07:41:14 AM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/flynn-charged-lying-fbi-plea-hearing-set-u-142319424.html

Flynn is being charged with lying to the FBI.  Plea hearing set at 10:30 am.

He's flipped.  This is a small-fries charge, which leads one to wonder what he's avoiding in exchange for cooperating with Mueller.  Very few bigger fish than Flynn...Don Jr., Kushner, and POTUS is about it.

Come on Trumpies, come tell us how this is nothing.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1058 on: December 01, 2017, 07:53:48 AM »
The speed at which this investigation is happening is incredible.  Four people charged already, and the council was appointed just 6 months ago.  Median investigation length is 2 years.  Watergate dragged on for four years before any charges were filed (and then continued to for several years after that).


Wonder what Flynn's plea will be...

Kris

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1059 on: December 01, 2017, 07:56:31 AM »
The speed at which this investigation is happening is incredible.  Four people charged already, and the council was appointed just 6 months ago.  Median investigation length is 2 years.  Watergate dragged on for four years before any charges were filed (and then continued to for several years after that).


Wonder what Flynn's plea will be...

I read he will plead guilty. So, he's cooperating. In exchange for not being charged on something larger, is my guess.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1060 on: December 01, 2017, 08:03:32 AM »

I read he will plead guilty. So, he's cooperating. In exchange for not being charged on something larger, is my guess.

Could be that, or he could know the case against him is air-tight and he'll take a plea in exchange for reduced sentencing.  Could be either...

What irritates me now is that he is and in all likelihood will continue to earn a cushy military pension.  The military is loathe to ever strip away an officer's pension, even if they are convicted in civilian court. 

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1061 on: December 01, 2017, 08:06:53 AM »
How ironic and hypocritical is this now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-VieLZAM04

(for the click-adverse: Michael Flynn leading the chant to "Lock her up" a few months before he was reportedly meeting with the Russians)

hoping2retire35

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1062 on: December 01, 2017, 08:09:32 AM »

I read he will plead guilty. So, he's cooperating. In exchange for not being charged on something larger, is my guess.

Could be that, or he could know the case against him is air-tight and he'll take a plea in exchange for reduced sentencing.  Could be either...

What irritates me now is that he is and in all likelihood will continue to earn a cushy military pension.  The military is loathe to ever strip away an officer's pension, even if they are convicted in civilian court.
Curious, why should someone lose a pension for being convicted of a crime? He is not being sued.

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1063 on: December 01, 2017, 08:16:56 AM »

I read he will plead guilty. So, he's cooperating. In exchange for not being charged on something larger, is my guess.

Could be that, or he could know the case against him is air-tight and he'll take a plea in exchange for reduced sentencing.  Could be either...

What irritates me now is that he is and in all likelihood will continue to earn a cushy military pension.  The military is loathe to ever strip away an officer's pension, even if they are convicted in civilian court.
Curious, why should someone lose a pension for being convicted of a crime? He is not being sued.
IMHO, committing a federal crime which carries the penalty incarceration should also nullify one's military pension. It's a principle thing. Military benefits are paid for through our tax dollars.  It seems particularly apt in this case because Flynn was actively being paid by foreign powers and then lying about it to the FBI.

GuitarStv

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1064 on: December 01, 2017, 08:17:27 AM »

I read he will plead guilty. So, he's cooperating. In exchange for not being charged on something larger, is my guess.

Could be that, or he could know the case against him is air-tight and he'll take a plea in exchange for reduced sentencing.  Could be either...

What irritates me now is that he is and in all likelihood will continue to earn a cushy military pension.  The military is loathe to ever strip away an officer's pension, even if they are convicted in civilian court.
Curious, why should someone lose a pension for being convicted of a crime? He is not being sued.


Quote
CAN A VETERAN RECEIVE RETIRED MILITARY PAY WHILE IN PRISON?

Generally, yes. Being convicted of a crime almost never jeopardizes a federal pension – the rare exception to this rule are charges relating to criminal disloyalty to the United States: espionage, treason, sabotage, etc.
- https://www.military.com/benefits/veteran-benefits/incarcerated-veterans.html

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1065 on: December 01, 2017, 08:24:08 AM »
...it's a pretty long leap to treason from where we currently stand.

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1066 on: December 01, 2017, 08:29:47 AM »
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-has-now-urged-seven-officials-help-end-russia-probes-728072

Trump has urged at least seven officials to end Russia investigation(s).

Yeah, he's totally acting like an innocent person.  /s

GuitarStv

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1067 on: December 01, 2017, 08:31:35 AM »
...it's a pretty long leap to treason from where we currently stand.

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than 5 years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000.00; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States" - 18 US Code 2381

I guess it comes down to how you view things.

- Is Russia an enemy?
- Did Flynn's off the record conversation with the Russian ambassador where he said that he would help end/relax Obama's sanctions against them constitute aid and comfort?

If the answer is yes to both of the above, then it seems to be pretty clear cut.

Dabnasty

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1068 on: December 01, 2017, 08:42:47 AM »
...it's a pretty long leap to treason from where we currently stand.

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than 5 years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000.00; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States" - 18 US Code 2381

I guess it comes down to how you view things.

- Is Russia an enemy?
- Did Flynn's off the record conversation with the Russian ambassador where he said that he would help end/relax Obama's sanctions against them constitute aid and comfort?

If the answer is yes to both of the above, then it seems to be pretty clear cut.
Enemies are only entities that we are at war with. So no, Russia is not an enemy.

ETA: Could there be other "criminal disloyalty"? Perhaps, but treason seems pretty unlikely.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 08:44:50 AM by Dabnasty »

GuitarStv

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1069 on: December 01, 2017, 08:51:56 AM »
...it's a pretty long leap to treason from where we currently stand.

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than 5 years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000.00; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States" - 18 US Code 2381

I guess it comes down to how you view things.

- Is Russia an enemy?
- Did Flynn's off the record conversation with the Russian ambassador where he said that he would help end/relax Obama's sanctions against them constitute aid and comfort?

If the answer is yes to both of the above, then it seems to be pretty clear cut.
Enemies are only entities that we are at war with. So no, Russia is not an enemy.

ETA: Could there be other "criminal disloyalty"? Perhaps, but treason seems pretty unlikely.

Seems like that's kinda a loophole.  The last time the US officially declared war was 1941.  Helping the Taliban, Saddam's army, the VC, or North Korea then wouldn't have counted as treason.

Dabnasty

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1070 on: December 01, 2017, 09:00:12 AM »
...it's a pretty long leap to treason from where we currently stand.

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than 5 years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000.00; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States" - 18 US Code 2381

I guess it comes down to how you view things.

- Is Russia an enemy?
- Did Flynn's off the record conversation with the Russian ambassador where he said that he would help end/relax Obama's sanctions against them constitute aid and comfort?

If the answer is yes to both of the above, then it seems to be pretty clear cut.
Enemies are only entities that we are at war with. So no, Russia is not an enemy.

ETA: Could there be other "criminal disloyalty"? Perhaps, but treason seems pretty unlikely.

Seems like that's kinda a loophole.  The last time the US officially declared war was 1941.  Helping the Taliban, Saddam's army, the VC, or North Korea then wouldn't have counted as treason.
My understanding is that we can be "at war" with an entity such as the Taliban so yes, aiding the Taliban would have been treason. And if we're legally still at war with North Korea then yes, that would be treason as well.

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1071 on: December 01, 2017, 09:02:27 AM »
The speed at which this investigation is happening is incredible.  Four people charged already, and the council was appointed just 6 months ago.  Median investigation length is 2 years.  Watergate dragged on for four years before any charges were filed (and then continued to for several years after that).

I think this investigation is proceeding so rapidly because, as criminals go, this group seems pretty inept.  Lots of obvious federal crimes were right out in the open from the beginning, widely reported by the press, it's just the Trump so dramatically upset what's considered "normal" in DC that he seemed to think he could get away with breaking the law, too. 

He got away with pussy grabbing, so why not taking payments from foreign powers, or disclosing classified information, or laundering money for the Russian mob?  I mean he literally went on TV and asked the Russians to hack Hillary's email in order to sway the vote, how is that not collusion just because he did it publicly instead of privately?  Brazenness does not make things any less illegal.

GuitarStv

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1072 on: December 01, 2017, 09:09:21 AM »
...it's a pretty long leap to treason from where we currently stand.

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than 5 years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000.00; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States" - 18 US Code 2381

I guess it comes down to how you view things.

- Is Russia an enemy?
- Did Flynn's off the record conversation with the Russian ambassador where he said that he would help end/relax Obama's sanctions against them constitute aid and comfort?

If the answer is yes to both of the above, then it seems to be pretty clear cut.
Enemies are only entities that we are at war with. So no, Russia is not an enemy.

ETA: Could there be other "criminal disloyalty"? Perhaps, but treason seems pretty unlikely.

Seems like that's kinda a loophole.  The last time the US officially declared war was 1941.  Helping the Taliban, Saddam's army, the VC, or North Korea then wouldn't have counted as treason.
My understanding is that we can be "at war" with an entity such as the Taliban so yes, aiding the Taliban would have been treason. And if we're legally still at war with North Korea then yes, that would be treason as well.

The US did not declare war on the Taliban or North Korea
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States#Undeclared_wars

Wexler

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1073 on: December 01, 2017, 09:18:05 AM »
The speed at which this investigation is happening is incredible.  Four people charged already, and the council was appointed just 6 months ago.  Median investigation length is 2 years.  Watergate dragged on for four years before any charges were filed (and then continued to for several years after that).


Wonder what Flynn's plea will be...

I read he will plead guilty. So, he's cooperating. In exchange for not being charged on something larger, is my guess.

I'm guessing to protect his son from being charged.  His son is a real piece of work and should thank his lucky stars that his dad actually seems to care what happens to him.  I suspect Don Jr. would not get so lucky.

Kris

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1074 on: December 01, 2017, 09:19:47 AM »
The speed at which this investigation is happening is incredible.  Four people charged already, and the council was appointed just 6 months ago.  Median investigation length is 2 years.  Watergate dragged on for four years before any charges were filed (and then continued to for several years after that).


Wonder what Flynn's plea will be...

I read he will plead guilty. So, he's cooperating. In exchange for not being charged on something larger, is my guess.

I'm guessing to protect his son from being charged.  His son is a real piece of work and should thank his lucky stars that his dad actually seems to care what happens to him.  I suspect Don Jr. would not get so lucky.

Ha, yeah. As insular and nepotistic as DJT and his family is, he'd sell any damn one of them down the river if his own neck was on the line.

Dabnasty

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1075 on: December 01, 2017, 09:19:55 AM »
The US did not declare war on the Taliban or North Korea
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States#Undeclared_wars
Yes, so we can be at war without actually declaring war.

The real point here though is that the US does not consider Russia an enemy. There could always be exceptions that I'm unaware of but I think the qualifiers for treason were made specific to avoid it's use by politicians as a tool to undermine other politicians. If any political action that benefitted Russia could be considered treason, that would be a very broad definition.

This part doesn't really relate.

EDIT
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 09:25:17 AM by Dabnasty »

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1076 on: December 01, 2017, 09:21:33 AM »
As part of his plea bargain, Flynn will testify that then-candidate Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians.

Dabnasty

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1077 on: December 01, 2017, 09:27:07 AM »
As part of his plea bargain, Flynn will testify that then-candidate Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians.
Citation?

Glenstache

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1078 on: December 01, 2017, 09:30:18 AM »
As part of his plea bargain, Flynn will testify that then-candidate Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians.
It does also seem that Flynn has a wee bit of a credibility problem. I suspect that Mueller recognizes this and would require something more substantive than just Flynn's testimony.

Wexler

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1079 on: December 01, 2017, 09:39:07 AM »
After ManafortMonday and FlynnFriday, what else can we look forward to?  TrumpTuesday?  SoMuchWinningWednesday? SoninLawSunday?

DarkandStormy

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Glenstache

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1081 on: December 01, 2017, 09:58:12 AM »
After ManafortMonday and FlynnFriday, what else can we look forward to?  TrumpTuesday?  SoMuchWinningWednesday? SoninLawSunday?
Don't forget the ever-popular Schadenfreude Saturday.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1082 on: December 01, 2017, 10:18:56 AM »
After ManafortMonday and FlynnFriday, what else can we look forward to?  TrumpTuesday?  SoMuchWinningWednesday? SoninLawSunday?
Don't forget the ever-popular Schadenfreude Saturday.

DotardDecember?

nereo

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1083 on: December 01, 2017, 10:29:23 AM »
...it's a pretty long leap to treason from where we currently stand.

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than 5 years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000.00; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States" - 18 US Code 2381

I guess it comes down to how you view things....

my comment was meant to mean what is possible and likely to be prosecutable. Greed seems to be the underlying motive here, not undermining the US and/or supporting Russia.

Regardless, I find it frustrating that a high ranking officer gets to keep his/her military benefits during and after incarceration.  IMO "no federal convictions" shouldn't be too high a standard.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1084 on: December 01, 2017, 10:41:19 AM »
Do you think that Trump finds it even more annoying that during the transition Obama specifically warned him to not hire Flynn for anything? (Remember, Obama fired Flynn from DIA).

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1085 on: December 01, 2017, 10:43:28 AM »
Do you think that Trump finds it even more annoying that during the transition Obama specifically warned him to not hire Flynn for anything? (Remember, Obama fired Flynn from DIA).

No, I don't.  In fact I expect that Obama's warning was part the reason Flynn got the job.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1086 on: December 01, 2017, 10:44:12 AM »
I'm no legal expert so I don't know if this guy's reading of the situation is way off-base or not, but this analysis thread is a good read: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/936602442996813824

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1087 on: December 01, 2017, 10:52:14 AM »
Do you think that Trump finds it even more annoying that during the transition Obama specifically warned him to not hire Flynn for anything? (Remember, Obama fired Flynn from DIA).

No, I don't.  In fact I expect that Obama's warning was part the reason Flynn got the job.

i think in January 2017 that this is probably at least partially true... that Trump would willfully disregard advice from Obama just because. I also think that Trump is capable of convincing himself of pretty much anything, and will somehow twist it to be Obama's fault, or maybe Hillary's too.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1088 on: December 01, 2017, 10:56:52 AM »
I'm no legal expert so I don't know if this guy's reading of the situation is way off-base or not, but this analysis thread is a good read: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/936602442996813824

Quote
44/ (When I get a number of new readers—as today—people ask me to restate my bona fides: Harvard Law School, 2001; public defender for eight years in two jurisdictions; trained at Georgetown/Harvard as a criminal investigator; represented 2000+ defendants in cases up to homicide;

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/936626565210927105


turketron

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1089 on: December 01, 2017, 11:01:30 AM »
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/936626565210927105

Yeah I don't doubt his credentials, but it would be nice to hear a similar analysis from someone else to corroborate his conclusions.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1090 on: December 01, 2017, 11:03:44 AM »
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/936626565210927105

Yeah I don't doubt his credentials, but it would be nice to hear a similar analysis from someone else to corroborate his conclusions.

Considering it just happened three hours ago, I'd say wait for the "morning papers." They timed it perfectly for the weekend news cycle.

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1091 on: December 01, 2017, 11:07:47 AM »
I'm no legal expert so I don't know if this guy's reading of the situation is way off-base or not, but this analysis thread is a good read: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/936602442996813824

Excerpt from above:
"8/ What this indicates—beyond any serious doubt—is the following: Special Counsel Bob Mueller, the former Director of the FBI, believes Mike Flynn's testimony will *incriminate* the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, or both of these two men."

turketron

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1092 on: December 01, 2017, 11:11:57 AM »
Considering it just happened three hours ago, I'd say wait for the "morning papers." They timed it perfectly for the weekend news cycle.

Yeah, I'm just impatient :D

When the Manafort and Papadopalous indictments came out, Preet Bharara released a special episode of his podcast to go over the charges, I'm hoping he does something similar for this.

bacchi

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1093 on: December 01, 2017, 11:15:41 AM »
I'm no legal expert so I don't know if this guy's reading of the situation is way off-base or not, but this analysis thread is a good read: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/936602442996813824

Excerpt from above:
"8/ What this indicates—beyond any serious doubt—is the following: Special Counsel Bob Mueller, the former Director of the FBI, believes Mike Flynn's testimony will *incriminate* the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, or both of these two men."

It's Kushner. The whole "going in to talk about Flynn" meeting was more about getting Kushner to implicate himself. The main objective wasn't about Flynn, who had already flipped at that point.

Mueller is likely done with any plea deals. Kushner and Sessions are next.


Eta: Any of the Trumpees want to admit that there's a Russian problem yet? Or are you still holding out for that "nothingburger?"
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 11:17:47 AM by bacchi »

NoStacheOhio

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1094 on: December 01, 2017, 11:17:10 AM »
I'm no legal expert so I don't know if this guy's reading of the situation is way off-base or not, but this analysis thread is a good read: https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/936602442996813824

Excerpt from above:
"8/ What this indicates—beyond any serious doubt—is the following: Special Counsel Bob Mueller, the former Director of the FBI, believes Mike Flynn's testimony will *incriminate* the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, or both of these two men."

Downthread, he also strongly emphasized just how sweet of a deal Flynn is getting. Subtext being that he gave Mueller very significant information. It also doesn't rule out information against others in addition to Trump/Pence.

ETA: one of the big problems here is that it's kind of a shitshow all the way down the line of succession.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 11:20:57 AM by NoStacheOhio »

DarkandStormy

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1095 on: December 01, 2017, 11:31:20 AM »
Eta: Any of the Trumpees want to admit that there's a Russian problem yet? Or are you still holding out for that "nothingburger?"

#cult45 is awfully quiet today.

turketron

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1096 on: December 01, 2017, 11:34:50 AM »
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/936664246594793472

Quote
BREAKING NEWS: As predicted early on in this thread, it has now been revealed that Jared Kushner directly ordered Michael Flynn to engage in negotiations with the Russians during the last weeks of the Obama presidency (specifically, in December 2016).

sol

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1097 on: December 01, 2017, 11:43:53 AM »
It's Kushner.

It's always been Kushner.  Boy's going to jail, I think.  I predict Trump will burn him, and Jared will gladly take the fall for him.

Maybe two years behind bars, then a pardon right before the  next inauguration?

NoStacheOhio

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1098 on: December 01, 2017, 11:52:52 AM »
It's Kushner.

It's always been Kushner.  Boy's going to jail, I think.  I predict Trump will burn him, and Jared will gladly take the fall for him.

Maybe two years behind bars, then a pardon right before the  next inauguration?

Don't forget the NY Attorney General is also lurking in the shadows here.

bacchi

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Re: United States of Russia?
« Reply #1099 on: December 01, 2017, 11:53:50 AM »
It's Kushner.

It's always been Kushner.  Boy's going to jail, I think.  I predict Trump will burn him, and Jared will gladly take the fall for him.

Maybe two years behind bars, then a pardon right before the  next inauguration?

Next move is Trump's. He'll fire Mueller and than, as SethAbramson wrote, "all hell will break loose." Trump won't get a chance to pardon Kushner.