Author Topic: Twitter  (Read 97726 times)

Metalcat

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #350 on: December 17, 2022, 05:52:53 AM »
There is no 4D chess or rationale. He is addicted to the service.

This is the most insightful comment in this thread.  Some users think Twitter is the entire universe.  They can interact with great thinkers and captains of industry.  Some users just follow along.  And most people don't care at all. 

Musk is in the first group.  He thinks it is really important and wants to run the Entire Universe.  But it isn't really that important and the best features can be easily replicated on other platforms.  Or better yet, skipped.

It certainly looks that way, like this is all just a hissy fit gone wrong.

I just maintain enough willingness to say that I don't really know what the fuck is going on, because, well I don't, and anything is possible.

Metalcat

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #351 on: December 17, 2022, 07:17:16 AM »
Here is an article trying very, very, very hard to profile Musk's current moves as somehow mysteriously brilliant and somehow connecting his Twitter obsession with his mission to get people to Mars.

The article just leaves me scratching my head more.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-63871980

FINate

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #352 on: December 17, 2022, 08:29:31 AM »
Here is an article trying very, very, very hard to profile Musk's current moves as somehow mysteriously brilliant and somehow connecting his Twitter obsession with his mission to get people to Mars.

The article just leaves me scratching my head more.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-63871980

Why does the media engage in this type of mythmaking. The 80 hour work weeks, sleeping in the office, extreme hardcore programming, conflating wealth and intellect. It's just celebrity worship.

His goal to colonize mars is rooted in white European colonialism. A belief that we have the right, perhaps even a calling, to spread our version of what it means to be human. Musk isn't talking about bringing an agrarian society to mars (which is how most humans have lived for most of human history). No, he wants to bring his vision of a neolibertarian tech utopia to mars, which is contributing to making Earth uninhabitable. It's not good enough to ruin one planet, we must ruin others! And then this gets painted as altruistic, such that sacrificing your family and personal life on the alter of Elon's ego is for the good of humanity, when he's the one getting rich. /rant

Metalcat

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #353 on: December 17, 2022, 08:35:33 AM »
Here is an article trying very, very, very hard to profile Musk's current moves as somehow mysteriously brilliant and somehow connecting his Twitter obsession with his mission to get people to Mars.

The article just leaves me scratching my head more.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-63871980

Why does the media engage in this type of mythmaking. The 80 hour work weeks, sleeping in the office, extreme hardcore programming, conflating wealth and intellect. It's just celebrity worship.

His goal to colonize mars is rooted in white European colonialism. A belief that we have the right, perhaps even a calling, to spread our version of what it means to be human. Musk isn't talking about bringing an agrarian society to mars (which is how most humans have lived for most of human history). No, he wants to bring his vision of a neolibertarian tech utopia to mars, which is contributing to making Earth uninhabitable. It's not good enough to ruin one planet, we must ruin others! And then this gets painted as altruistic, such that sacrificing your family and personal life on the alter of Elon's ego is for the good of humanity, when he's the one getting rich. /rant

Yeah, I read it thinking "and this is what you wrote trying to make him look good?"

BlueMR2

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #354 on: December 17, 2022, 01:25:54 PM »
His goal to colonize mars is rooted in white European colonialism. A belief that we have the right, perhaps even a calling, to spread our version of what it means to be human. Musk isn't talking about bringing an agrarian society to mars (which is how most humans have lived for most of human history). No, he wants to bring his vision of a neolibertarian tech utopia to mars, which is contributing to making Earth uninhabitable. It's not good enough to ruin one planet, we must ruin others! And then this gets painted as altruistic, such that sacrificing your family and personal life on the alter of Elon's ego is for the good of humanity, when he's the one getting rich. /rant

I'm OK with that really.  This planet has a finite lifespan ahead of it even if we do care for it.  If we burn it up earlier in the process than it would have on its own while we're becoming an interstellar species allowing us to find newer worlds, that's fine. 

maizefolk

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #355 on: December 17, 2022, 02:25:22 PM »
Global warming, mass pandemics, social media brain rot and all, I will still take living for short life in the world, society and civilization of today over living in any of agrarian societies that humans lived in for a few tens of thousand years (if that), or any of the hunter gather societies that humans lived in for hundreds of thousands of years before that.

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #356 on: December 17, 2022, 03:21:34 PM »
Why does the media engage in this type of mythmaking. The 80 hour work weeks, sleeping in the office, extreme hardcore programming, conflating wealth and intellect. It's just celebrity worship.

His goal to colonize mars is rooted in white European colonialism. A belief that we have the right, perhaps even a calling, to spread our version of what it means to be human. Musk isn't talking about bringing an agrarian society to mars (which is how most humans have lived for most of human history). No, he wants to bring his vision of a neolibertarian tech utopia to mars, which is contributing to making Earth uninhabitable. It's not good enough to ruin one planet, we must ruin others! And then this gets painted as altruistic, such that sacrificing your family and personal life on the alter of Elon's ego is for the good of humanity, when he's the one getting rich. /rant

Great post.  Workplace efficiency studies have shown that productivity tends to go down after 40 hours a week and actually becomes negative after 60 hours.  Cal Newport is a CS university professor who has published a large number of academic papers, author of several books and magazine articles, has a blog and and podcast.  He makes a point to stop work at 5:00 every day and doesn't work weekends.   Stephen King writes six pages a day, which takes him about 2-4 hours.  Google and NASA encourage their employees to nap at work.  Point is, as a knowledge worker if you are working 80 hours a week you are doing it wrong.   Maybe you have to in a pinch, but as a method it is counter productive.  It is the wrong way to work. 

Mars is a terrible place for humans to live.  Our hearts, muscles and bones won't be stressed properly due to the low gravity.  We won't be exposed to the right microflora.  The solar spectrum will be wrong.   You can never feel the wind on your face or go skiiing.  How does having animals work?  Diet in general?  Humans on Mars will never eat a homegrown tomato.  The more you think about it, the more it sounds like would suck.   Go visit if you like for sure.  But a permanent colony?  Stupid, stupid, idea.


Paul der Krake

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #357 on: December 17, 2022, 03:36:50 PM »
Exploration (of which space is just the natural next step) is some of the coolest shit we do as a species. I'm more than okay with sending gentrifiers even if it displaces some Martian rocks in the process.

GuitarStv

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #358 on: December 17, 2022, 06:52:53 PM »
Exploration (of which space is just the natural next step) is some of the coolest shit we do as a species.

We're do seem to be hardwired to believe this.  Because we habitually destroy and destabilize the environment around us, without exploration and constant moving from place to place we would have died in piles of our own filth long ago as a species.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #359 on: December 17, 2022, 07:07:16 PM »
His goal to colonize mars is rooted in white European colonialism. A belief that we have the right, perhaps even a calling, to spread our version of what it means to be human. Musk isn't talking about bringing an agrarian society to mars (which is how most humans have lived for most of human history). No, he wants to bring his vision of a neolibertarian tech utopia to mars, which is contributing to making Earth uninhabitable. It's not good enough to ruin one planet, we must ruin others! And then this gets painted as altruistic, such that sacrificing your family and personal life on the alter of Elon's ego is for the good of humanity, when he's the one getting rich. /rant

I'm OK with that really.  This planet has a finite lifespan ahead of it even if we do care for it.  If we burn it up earlier in the process than it would have on its own while we're becoming an interstellar species allowing us to find newer worlds, that's fine.

I'm not so sure about life on Earth ever being doomed. The planet is only becoming less hospitable to human life to the extent we've engaged in a fossil-fuel burning and toxin production spree for a cosmically brief period of time - a handful of human generations.

If that activity stopped for whatever reason, the air, oceans, and surface layer of land would become cleaner over the following centuries. The toxins we released would become a layer of ocean sediment, the methane and other pollutants in our atmosphere would degrade faster than they are added, rainforests would grow back, etc.

All the above will start to happen just as soon as humans figure out less-toxic ways to use electricity, transport themselves, and make things. When new technologies become more economical than old ones, adoption happens within a generation. We're already living on the cusp of this transition (see recent news about fusion, and all the early electric cars driving around). Right now, the ecological damage is happening at a faster pace than Earth's speed of recovery in various ways, but that pace of damage could be much different in 50 or 100 years.

In terms of the sun's eventual red giant stage, I find it hard to believe that a post human intelligent species won't have figured out how to nudge Earth's orbit by a few fraction of a degree per year and swing it closer to Pluto's orbit. Life on Earth has 5 billion years to prepare for this eventual move - a longer time to go than the current age of the Earth. An asteroid, for example, could be swung ahead of Earth's orbit by ion thrusters or solar sails to pull earth a little faster in its orbit, just to visualize a solution using the technologies in use during in our primitive era. Such methods could keep Earth within the habitable zone as the habitable zone expands.

Of course, by then we'll they'll have lots of interesting places to set up camp, like the now-habitable moons of Saturn and Neptune, or Pluto. The red-giant phase of the Sun is the epoch when we can imagine a solar system with multiple inhabited planets and moons, occupied by different intelligent species that have evolved separately for millions of years, with the original habitable-zone planets having been moved to new orbits long ago by ancestor species.

partgypsy

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #360 on: December 18, 2022, 12:33:32 PM »
Exploration (of which space is just the natural next step) is some of the coolest shit we do as a species.

We're do seem to be hardwired to believe this.  Because we habitually destroy and destabilize the environment around us, without exploration and constant moving from place to place we would have died in piles of our own filth long ago as a species.

bingo. Pre agrarian societies many places across the globe we practiced some form of slash and burn agriculture. We could do that because groups of people were mobile, could move to yet another piece of land and let the burned land lay fallow until it regained some productivity. The Masai move their herds, as their herds eat all the grass, to the point it can't sustain the herd, and the herd is moved to new land. That area then eventually grows trees, which attracts elephants who then eat the trees. The new treeless area then can grow grass again.

The point it, it may BE engrained in us to be searching for new land because of probabably hundreds of thousands of years of similar practices. The problem is, there are too many people to allow anything other than industrial farming (which has it's own limitations, we are running into). And Mars is not earth.

Don't get me wrong. I grew up reading science fiction, and find all those stories very compelling. But I guess I don't feel like we deserve to start colonizing other areas, or sacrifice the earth for plans to travel to other stars, unless we are able to solve our current environmental problems here on earth. That's everything from deforestation, degradation of the soil, dropping of water table, accumulation of plastics throughout the chain of life from largest to microbe-level, and of course climate change. It may require a radical re-thinking of what it means to be human, and of human society. That is a far more radical, and interesting goal, than shooting yet another rocket into space, or even scraping some kind of habitation at a staggering cost (resources, time, energy) of a small group of humans on Mars ala biosphere 3.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #361 on: December 18, 2022, 01:03:23 PM »
Basically we have been doing slash and burn or its longer term equivalent since we started farming.  The fertile crescent isn't any more.  Jared Diamond discusses this a lot in his books.  But basically we can maintain stable farming until our numbers grow too large and we expand into areas that are not able to support our activities - we cut trees and over-graze animals and the topsoil erodes and boom.

So of course now our planetary numbers are too large and we have no new frontiers, except space.  But our neighbouring planets are inhospitable and it will take a long long time to colonize planets elsewhere.  And SF is full of stories about that - and really the biology is a challenge.  Getting a colony there is the least of it, our bodies expect a certain gravity and day/night cycle.  We have no idea what would happen to a colony if it turns out that it throws our reproductive cycles off.  And since we don't have mass uterine replicators we are dependent on our own bodies to cooperate.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #362 on: December 18, 2022, 01:38:21 PM »
Exploration (of which space is just the natural next step) is some of the coolest shit we do as a species.

We're do seem to be hardwired to believe this.  Because we habitually destroy and destabilize the environment around us, without exploration and constant moving from place to place we would have died in piles of our own filth long ago as a species.

bingo. Pre agrarian societies many places across the globe we practiced some form of slash and burn agriculture. We could do that because groups of people were mobile, could move to yet another piece of land and let the burned land lay fallow until it regained some productivity. The Masai move their herds, as their herds eat all the grass, to the point it can't sustain the herd, and the herd is moved to new land. That area then eventually grows trees, which attracts elephants who then eat the trees. The new treeless area then can grow grass again.

The point it, it may BE engrained in us to be searching for new land because of probabably hundreds of thousands of years of similar practices. The problem is, there are too many people to allow anything other than industrial farming (which has it's own limitations, we are running into). And Mars is not earth.

Don't get me wrong. I grew up reading science fiction, and find all those stories very compelling. But I guess I don't feel like we deserve to start colonizing other areas, or sacrifice the earth for plans to travel to other stars, unless we are able to solve our current environmental problems here on earth. That's everything from deforestation, degradation of the soil, dropping of water table, accumulation of plastics throughout the chain of life from largest to microbe-level, and of course climate change. It may require a radical re-thinking of what it means to be human, and of human society. That is a far more radical, and interesting goal, than shooting yet another rocket into space, or even scraping some kind of habitation at a staggering cost (resources, time, energy) of a small group of humans on Mars ala biosphere 3.

Maybe people who are interested in living on a red asteroid at the temperature of liquid nitrogen with no air and deadly levels of cosmic radiation are less interested in the opportunity, and more interested in a fantasy of getting away from other people, or one's obligations to other people.

Yet Earth already offers plenty of options to "colonize" harsh places and rarely ever see other people (e.g. Alaska, the Yukon, and Siberia are largely unsettled, and have air!). Few of the would-be Mars colonists are taking advantage of these opportunities. Their interest in living in frozen, deadly isolation is purely fantasy. It's being used to create a fantasy community here on earth.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #363 on: December 18, 2022, 04:37:38 PM »
Shoot, they don’t even want to live in our many beautiful rural areas because there’s no Chipotle or Costco or whatever consumption-centric thing they crave.

less4success

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #364 on: December 18, 2022, 04:50:22 PM »
Supposedly Elon posted a poll asking whether or not he should step down. I'm so sick of hearing about Elon Musk, but I'll admit I'm curious about the result (as far as I can tell, you can't view the vote tally unless you have a Twitter account).

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #365 on: December 18, 2022, 05:36:46 PM »
Supposedly Elon posted a poll asking whether or not he should step down. I'm so sick of hearing about Elon Musk, but I'll admit I'm curious about the result (as far as I can tell, you can't view the vote tally unless you have a Twitter account).

https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/elon-musk-conducts-poll-on-whether-he-should-step-down-as-twitters-ceo/

nick663

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #366 on: December 18, 2022, 05:43:40 PM »
Supposedly Elon posted a poll asking whether or not he should step down. I'm so sick of hearing about Elon Musk, but I'll admit I'm curious about the result (as far as I can tell, you can't view the vote tally unless you have a Twitter account).
"Yes" is currently leading 57.9 to 42.1

roomtempmayo

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #367 on: December 18, 2022, 08:16:07 PM »
Supposedly Elon posted a poll asking whether or not he should step down. I'm so sick of hearing about Elon Musk, but I'll admit I'm curious about the result (as far as I can tell, you can't view the vote tally unless you have a Twitter account).
"Yes" is currently leading 57.9 to 42.1

Vox Populi, Vox Dei.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2022, 08:17:47 PM by caleb »

GuitarStv

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #368 on: December 18, 2022, 09:32:08 PM »
Supposedly Elon posted a poll asking whether or not he should step down. I'm so sick of hearing about Elon Musk, but I'll admit I'm curious about the result (as far as I can tell, you can't view the vote tally unless you have a Twitter account).
"Yes" is currently leading 57.9 to 42.1

Vox Populi, Vox Dei.

I suspect that this is about as important to Elon as free speech was.  Which is to say, it's important when it gets him what he wants, and is immediately thrown out the window when it's inconvenient.

LennStar

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #369 on: December 18, 2022, 11:32:21 PM »
Supposedly Elon posted a poll asking whether or not he should step down. I'm so sick of hearing about Elon Musk, but I'll admit I'm curious about the result (as far as I can tell, you can't view the vote tally unless you have a Twitter account).
"Yes" is currently leading 57.9 to 42.1

Vox Populi, Vox Dei.
12+ million votes, not bad. There are countries with less voters at a national election.

Also Twitter no longer shows the device which was used to tweet. Somebody mocked Elon that he used Twitter for iPhone.
Aaaannd... "accounts that exist solely for the promotion of other social media" (e.g. by having facebook or Mastodon in their name) will be suspended. That boychild!

sonofsven

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #370 on: December 19, 2022, 07:41:35 AM »
I feel like someday we'll find out Elon is really sad because someone stole his favorite sled when he was a child.

RWD

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #371 on: December 19, 2022, 07:49:19 AM »
Poll results:

ChpBstrd

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #372 on: December 19, 2022, 08:55:28 AM »
Does that mean attempting to re-hire all the managers he fired, or going back to twitter being a publically traded company?

Since these seem like impossibilities, I suspect he relocates Twitter to Texas, hires all new management, and leaves it as an unmoderated cesspool like Telegraph or Parlor.

roomtempmayo

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #373 on: December 19, 2022, 10:10:48 AM »
Since these seem like impossibilities, I suspect he relocates Twitter to Texas, hires all new management, and leaves it as an unmoderated cesspool like Telegraph or Parlor.

I wonder how long journalists will stay on Twitter.  Plenty are clutching their free-speech-pearls right now, but many have used it to develop a personal platform largely independent of their employers/outlets.  They're not going to give that up unless Twitter becomes totally untenable, or their audience leaves.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #374 on: December 19, 2022, 11:44:53 AM »
Since these seem like impossibilities, I suspect he relocates Twitter to Texas, hires all new management, and leaves it as an unmoderated cesspool like Telegraph or Parlor.

I wonder how long journalists will stay on Twitter.  Plenty are clutching their free-speech-pearls right now, but many have used it to develop a personal platform largely independent of their employers/outlets.  They're not going to give that up unless Twitter becomes totally untenable, or their audience leaves.

So much of "the  news" is a repetition of what influential people said on Twitter. This is a much easier way to create content than, say, digging through files to spot corruption, or interviewing people to talk about false criminal convictions. It seems like both (a) there are very few real journalists anymore, and (b) journalists have no other way to create content economically enough to be paid for by clickbait wages other than to just report what people said on Twitter.

roomtempmayo

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #375 on: December 19, 2022, 12:02:38 PM »
Since these seem like impossibilities, I suspect he relocates Twitter to Texas, hires all new management, and leaves it as an unmoderated cesspool like Telegraph or Parlor.

I wonder how long journalists will stay on Twitter.  Plenty are clutching their free-speech-pearls right now, but many have used it to develop a personal platform largely independent of their employers/outlets.  They're not going to give that up unless Twitter becomes totally untenable, or their audience leaves.

So much of "the  news" is a repetition of what influential people said on Twitter. This is a much easier way to create content than, say, digging through files to spot corruption, or interviewing people to talk about false criminal convictions. It seems like both (a) there are very few real journalists anymore, and (b) journalists have no other way to create content economically enough to be paid for by clickbait wages other than to just report what people said on Twitter.

Yes, and even the best-resourced papers don't even seem ashamed of it anymore.  Plenty of "analysis" (that vague growing category between reporting and editorializing) is transparently motivated by Twitter conversations in both the NYT and WSJ.

I recall that a few/10 years ago the Chicago Tribune laid off most of their photographers and gave their reporters iPhones to take pictures.  There was lots of talk of the death of photography because now any old reporter could take a good enough picture for the front page.  What we didn't realize was actually happening was few people were going to bother leaving their desks to report, much less take pictures.  The pictures were just a visual manifestation of the new third hand sedentary journalism.

maizefolk

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #376 on: December 19, 2022, 12:41:07 PM »
Yes, and even the best-resourced papers don't even seem ashamed of it anymore.  Plenty of "analysis" (that vague growing category between reporting and editorializing) is transparently motivated by Twitter conversations in both the NYT and WSJ.

I recall that a few/10 years ago the Chicago Tribune laid off most of their photographers and gave their reporters iPhones to take pictures.  There was lots of talk of the death of photography because now any old reporter could take a good enough picture for the front page.  What we didn't realize was actually happening was few people were going to bother leaving their desks to report, much less take pictures.  The pictures were just a visual manifestation of the new third hand sedentary journalism.

Agreed. Reporting has changed a LOT in the last decade, but slowly enough that I think most people haven't noticed it. Fewer, lower paid, and sadly in many cases less skilled/less well trained reporters.

I think it may also play a role in skewing reporting at the big national papers more towards partisian politics and away from all the other stuff happening in the world. Political stories tend to happen just in one or two major cities, which makes it easier to cover with fewer national/global reporters and they don't tend to require a lot of investigation or deep dives. One or both political parties will happen put our hypothetical reporter in touch with spokespeople for quotes and if they need more our hypothetical reporter can go back to the same sources again and again because they're always writing about the same issues.

When some significant and newsworthy event happens most places other than NYC or DC -- I'm thinking in particular things like natural disasters/big fires/etc -- the way some articles are written seems a bit weird/strange until you realize that in a surprising number of cases it is being written by a reporter somewhere else in the world who maybe watched a live streamed press conference, read a press release (if relavant) and searched for some people tweeting about the event but never actually talked to anyone personally to get new information to go into the article.

roomtempmayo

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #377 on: December 19, 2022, 01:32:09 PM »
When some significant and newsworthy event happens most places other than NYC or DC -- I'm thinking in particular things like natural disasters/big fires/etc -- the way some articles are written seems a bit weird/strange until you realize that in a surprising number of cases it is being written by a reporter somewhere else in the world who maybe watched a live streamed press conference, read a press release (if relavant) and searched for some people tweeting about the event but never actually talked to anyone personally to get new information to go into the article.

Yes, and the irony is that while social media promised to "give people a voice," it's empowered a class of blowhards at the expense of the average person on the street.  If news is really just social media aggregation and sifting, then what's the point of walking down the street while the flood waters recede talking to the people hauling out wet couches and carpets?  Those folks are much less present in the news of 2022 than they were in 2002.

roomtempmayo

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #378 on: December 19, 2022, 01:56:48 PM »
So much of "the  news" is a repetition of what influential people said on Twitter. This is a much easier way to create content than, say, digging through files to spot corruption, or interviewing people to talk about false criminal convictions. It seems like both (a) there are very few real journalists anymore, and (b) journalists have no other way to create content economically enough to be paid for by clickbait wages other than to just report what people said on Twitter.

Outside of the top handful of best-resourced papers, a whole lot of what passes for "investigative journalism" is really 23 year olds doing drive-by hit pieces of public figures and offices with evidence from searchable public records scaffolded onto existing narratives often gleaned from social media.

My wife is in the sort of work where there's a reporter assigned, at least in part, to write stories about what she and her colleagues are doing.  In her 12 years in her current role, there have been four or five reporters covering their beat.  She has never met a single one, or even seen one to her knowledge, in spite of the vast majority of her office's work being done in open settings during normal business hours.

What appears to happen is that a controversy pops up, and their reporter will go back through public records over the past 3, 5, 10 years with keyword searches.  Then whatever they turn up gets cobbled onto the existing narrative of controversy to show that some major problem exists.  Then they pull a quote from some friendly c-list source advancing their theory of a problem/corruption/conspiracy, don't interview the subjects of the story, and the "investigation" is all buttoned up and gets rolled out as a series over multiple Sundays.  My wife's office will then never hear the name of that reporter again. A year or two later some new grad gets assigned to their beat to do the same thing.

What's happening isn't the boring work of sitting outside committee meeting rooms, cultivating sources, figuring out the institutional quirks, or any of that antiquated reporting skill.  Instead, it's trying to dig up the most sensational dirt possible in the least amount of time in order to punch your ticket out of this regional city and onto the staff of a national publication before you turn 25.

The character of news has fundamentally changed in that it's not really contextualized observation, but decontextualized searching for evidence for existing narratives that will sell both the paper and yourself.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 02:02:43 PM by caleb »

ChpBstrd

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #379 on: December 19, 2022, 03:22:54 PM »
When some significant and newsworthy event happens most places other than NYC or DC -- I'm thinking in particular things like natural disasters/big fires/etc -- the way some articles are written seems a bit weird/strange until you realize that in a surprising number of cases it is being written by a reporter somewhere else in the world who maybe watched a live streamed press conference, read a press release (if relavant) and searched for some people tweeting about the event but never actually talked to anyone personally to get new information to go into the article.

Yes, and the irony is that while social media promised to "give people a voice," it's empowered a class of blowhards at the expense of the average person on the street.  If news is really just social media aggregation and sifting, then what's the point of walking down the street while the flood waters recede talking to the people hauling out wet couches and carpets?  Those folks are much less present in the news of 2022 than they were in 2002.

Yes.

So much of "the  news" is a repetition of what influential people said on Twitter. This is a much easier way to create content than, say, digging through files to spot corruption, or interviewing people to talk about false criminal convictions. It seems like both (a) there are very few real journalists anymore, and (b) journalists have no other way to create content economically enough to be paid for by clickbait wages other than to just report what people said on Twitter.

Outside of the top handful of best-resourced papers, a whole lot of what passes for "investigative journalism" is really 23 year olds doing drive-by hit pieces of public figures and offices with evidence from searchable public records scaffolded onto existing narratives often gleaned from social media.

My wife is in the sort of work where there's a reporter assigned, at least in part, to write stories about what she and her colleagues are doing.  In her 12 years in her current role, there have been four or five reporters covering their beat.  She has never met a single one, or even seen one to her knowledge, in spite of the vast majority of her office's work being done in open settings during normal business hours.

What appears to happen is that a controversy pops up, and their reporter will go back through public records over the past 3, 5, 10 years with keyword searches.  Then whatever they turn up gets cobbled onto the existing narrative of controversy to show that some major problem exists.  Then they pull a quote from some friendly c-list source advancing their theory of a problem/corruption/conspiracy, don't interview the subjects of the story, and the "investigation" is all buttoned up and gets rolled out as a series over multiple Sundays.  My wife's office will then never hear the name of that reporter again. A year or two later some new grad gets assigned to their beat to do the same thing.

What's happening isn't the boring work of sitting outside committee meeting rooms, cultivating sources, figuring out the institutional quirks, or any of that antiquated reporting skill.  Instead, it's trying to dig up the most sensational dirt possible in the least amount of time in order to punch your ticket out of this regional city and onto the staff of a national publication before you turn 25.

The character of news has fundamentally changed in that it's not really contextualized observation, but decontextualized searching for evidence for existing narratives that will sell both the paper and yourself.

Yes. What we're living through is not all that different than what people are living through in Belarus, Hungrary, or Turkey. Our journalists have disappeared, and have been replaced with political sloganeering. Except, instead of an autocratic government jailing journalists, we have an clickbait-based system that makes it nearly impossible for a journalist to convince anyone to pay them for doing true investigations, going places and talking to real people, etc.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #380 on: December 19, 2022, 04:02:43 PM »
Same as it ever was. Remember William Randolph Hearst. And Joseph Pulitzer.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 04:10:49 PM by Fru-Gal »

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #381 on: December 19, 2022, 04:08:54 PM »
But I do think on balance the empowerment of citizen and open source journalism on social media (mainly Twitter I think?) has been a good thing.

Also good is that at this point Twitter is not the only game in town. Mastodon provides a method that anyone can use to create their own similar service and of course there are many others. Twitter itself was an incredibly addictive service (I was addicted) whose main purpose is to provide intellectual outrage porn. Being upset by the service means the service itself is working well as it captures your data. Granted, Twitter itself didn’t do a very good job of monetizing that data but that’s another story… it had unsavory investors before and it does now.

The “fun” part is the fact that we’re able to see somebody’s very flawed thought processes in real time and thus disabuse ourselves of the idea that that person is a stable genius.

maizefolk

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #382 on: December 19, 2022, 05:12:46 PM »
But I do think on balance the empowerment of citizen and open source journalism on social media (mainly Twitter I think?) has been a good thing.

I think is actually a bit beside the point. "Real" journalism wasn't mortally wounded by twitter. It was killed by craigslist (which demolished one of the biggest revenue streams of local and regional papers, classified ads) and google adwords (which substantially limited one of the biggest revenue streams of national papers).

Twitter is just one of engines that allows the low paid, less trained/skilled newspaper employees to fill the content gap that would otherwise exist with stuff like perspective pieces (the junk food of newspapers).

Consider that the US-based staff of the New York Times went on strike on December 8th, and the world basically didn't notice. It was that easy to replace what they were doing with stories from wire services, outsourced stories from non-union journalists working overseas, and half hearted stories written on the fly by management.

LennStar

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #383 on: December 20, 2022, 02:46:21 AM »
Ah, I am getting fat from the popcorn!

Guess the poll didn't work as intended, so Elon didn't talk about it for a while... until:

There is a saying in German... closest I guess is "2 have found each other".




ChpBstrd

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #384 on: December 20, 2022, 06:25:09 AM »
Ah, I am getting fat from the popcorn!

Guess the poll didn't work as intended, so Elon didn't talk about it for a while... until:

There is a saying in German... closest I guess is "2 have found each other".

Evidence accumulates that spending time on social media makes one paranoid.

FireLane

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #385 on: December 21, 2022, 12:18:04 PM »
Twitter itself was an incredibly addictive service (I was addicted) whose main purpose is to provide intellectual outrage porn. Being upset by the service means the service itself is working well as it captures your data.

This is such a good way to describe Twitter. I stopped using it a while ago, before the Musk takeover, and I really noticed how much better I feel when I spend less time there (and on social media in general).

BlueMR2

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #386 on: December 22, 2022, 06:16:55 AM »
Twitter itself was an incredibly addictive service (I was addicted) whose main purpose is to provide intellectual outrage porn. Being upset by the service means the service itself is working well as it captures your data.

This is such a good way to describe Twitter. I stopped using it a while ago, before the Musk takeover, and I really noticed how much better I feel when I spend less time there (and on social media in general).

It's getting noticeably worse.  The reasonable people are continuing to disappear and the amount of extremist material (from both sides) that keeps popping up is crazy.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #387 on: December 22, 2022, 07:20:33 AM »
Twitter itself was an incredibly addictive service (I was addicted) whose main purpose is to provide intellectual outrage porn. Being upset by the service means the service itself is working well as it captures your data.

This is such a good way to describe Twitter. I stopped using it a while ago, before the Musk takeover, and I really noticed how much better I feel when I spend less time there (and on social media in general).

It's getting noticeably worse.  The reasonable people are continuing to disappear and the amount of extremist material (from both sides) that keeps popping up is crazy.

If it had no actual significance on people's perceptions, it would simply be a humorous diversion. Unfortunately, it reminds me of conspiracy theories, and as a coworker commented to me, I miss the good old days when conspiracy theories were harmless and fun to argue about like the moon landing.

NorCal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #388 on: December 30, 2022, 06:19:56 PM »
I don’t have a Twitter account.

Out of curiosity, is Musk still being a complete dickwad on Twitter?  Or has the world largely just stopped paying attention?

I hope it’s the later, as that means he’s losing his influence.  But I’m not going on Twitter to look.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #389 on: December 30, 2022, 06:33:45 PM »
Yes. I know this because I compulsively look for news about it on Reddit. (Not back on Twitter, so I’m winning 😆 ). To be fair there is a lot of speculative negative journalism about his situation (e.g., surmising that he had his first Tesla margin call) so you really can’t judge from that.

Example of dickwad behavior: Dmitry Medvedev posted a horrific thread predicting the fall of Europe, the “Fourth Reich”, civil war in the US, Musk as US president, the end of the Euro and US dollar, and ended it by wishing Anglo Saxon swine a Merry Xmas. To which Musk replied “epic thread!” A few hours later he backtracked and said the thread was ridiculous because it hadn’t considered AI and green energy.

So I looked up who this Medvedev guy was…. He was the president and prime minister of Russia and is current head of security.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #390 on: December 30, 2022, 06:36:29 PM »
The other classic Musk moment happened yesterday when he disconnected his Sacramento data center and service was spotty/down. He tweeted a day before that that he was unplugging servers, even ones marked “sensitive” and noticing no ill effect. So after the service goes down around the world, OF COURSE he tweets something like “Twitter should be much faster now. Rolled out significant back end changes.”

seattlecyclone

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #391 on: December 30, 2022, 07:20:01 PM »

Herbert Derp

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #392 on: December 31, 2022, 03:23:37 AM »
Example of dickwad behavior: Dmitry Medvedev posted a horrific thread predicting the fall of Europe, the “Fourth Reich”, civil war in the US, Musk as US president, the end of the Euro and US dollar, and ended it by wishing Anglo Saxon swine a Merry Xmas. To which Musk replied “epic thread!” A few hours later he backtracked and said the thread was ridiculous because it hadn’t considered AI and green energy.

So I looked up who this Medvedev guy was…. He was the president and prime minister of Russia and is current head of security.

Sorry, but this is such a good example of manufactured outrage. So Medvedev goes on Twitter and posts a ridiculous example of speculative fiction, prefaced with an explanation that he is competing with others to make the "wildest, and even the most absurd" predictions for the future. His "prediction" reads like the backstory to Cyberpunk 2077. Obviously, not intended to be taken seriously! Of course, since Medvedev is famous, it gets a lot of attention and Elon comments on how ridiculous the whole thing is, calling it "epic". A bunch of idiots get up in arms for no reason, and Elon pokes fun at their idiocy by making a non-sequitur joke that the predictions were obviously wrong because they don't account for "AI and clean energy". That entire Twitter thread was a joke!

The way I saw this exchange play out:
Quote
Medvedev: Seems like everyone wants to make the most wild and absurd predictions for the next year. Here's my try. In 2023, the Fourth Reich will send squadrons of flying pigs to bomb Britain and start World War 3! Poland will be repartitioned!

Elon: Lol this is epic

Idiots: OMG how can you promote such an evil threatening post about flying pigs and Nazis, this is truly proof that you are evil

Elon: Well actually, the prediction is clearly inaccurate because the flying pigs don't account for the advent of sustainable energy

Idiots: The only flaw you found in Medvedev's horrifying threat to the world was a lack of sustainable energy? More proof that you are evil!!!

Elon: *laughing face emoji*

There are plenty of examples that you can point to where Elon wasn't being a good person (pedo guy? covid will be gone next month? my pronouns are prosecute Fauci?), but this isn't one of them. It just goes to show that in this age of the Internet, literally everything you say can and will be used against you. It reminds me of how the media was so eager to generate outrage for anything Trump did, even though some few of his policies were actually quite sensible, such as the decision to ban incoming flights from China at the beginning of Covid. But they even attempted to generate outrage over that, because it was Trump.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2022, 03:47:53 AM by Herbert Derp »

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #393 on: December 31, 2022, 09:23:33 AM »
Of course you’re right, when the head/right hand man of a nuclear state at war with its peaceful neighbor and threatening the rest of the world with nuclear retaliation makes an absurd statement like that we should just take it as a joke. /s

As for Musk I am still open to the possibility that he turns the ship around with Twitter. The ship that he himself steered into an iceberg.

SotI

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #394 on: December 31, 2022, 09:24:14 AM »
Example of dickwad behavior: Dmitry Medvedev posted a horrific thread predicting the fall of Europe, the “Fourth Reich”, civil war in the US, Musk as US president, the end of the Euro and US dollar, and ended it by wishing Anglo Saxon swine a Merry Xmas. To which Musk replied “epic thread!” A few hours later he backtracked and said the thread was ridiculous because it hadn’t considered AI and green energy.

So I looked up who this Medvedev guy was…. He was the president and prime minister of Russia and is current head of security.

Sorry, but this is such a good example of manufactured outrage. ... That entire Twitter thread was a joke!


Thanks for the synopsis. I am not on Twitter, but I occasionally check what Musk is posting and will gladly admit to finding him hilariously funny some times. I don't have any opinion of him as a person but he's got the sense of humour that was quite common in the "good old days" of early internet (talking the 90's type of trolling here). Seems that a lot of this type of irony and/or trolling is no longer understood or appreciated. Some of his comments still makes me laugh, though, when I get around to see what he's up to. So, yeah, I like his sense of humour, regardless what other foibles and bad sides he may or may not have.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #395 on: December 31, 2022, 09:28:23 AM »
I don’t mind his sense of humor and I do think he’s a victim of lazy media at this point. But like Trump it’s a symbiotic relationship that he himself created and benefits from.

But hey I’m reassured that people think these superrich guys joking while people die due to their actions is funny. Reminds me of something Neill Blomkamp would parody.

FINate

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #396 on: December 31, 2022, 10:04:55 AM »
There are plenty of examples that you can point to where Elon wasn't being a good person (pedo guy? covid will be gone next month? my pronouns are prosecute Fauci?), but this isn't one of them. It just goes to show that in this age of the Internet, literally everything you say can and will be used against you. It reminds me of how the media was so eager to generate outrage for anything Trump did, even though some few of his policies were actually quite sensible, such as the decision to ban incoming flights from China at the beginning of Covid. But they even attempted to generate outrage over that, because it was Trump.

If, like Trump, Musk has so damaged his reputation by saying stupid shit that people by default assume the worst, then he has far larger problems than simply mismanaging Twitter.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #397 on: December 31, 2022, 02:00:04 PM »
I don’t mind his sense of humor and I do think he’s a victim of lazy media at this point. But like Trump it’s a symbiotic relationship that he himself created and benefits from.

But hey I’m reassured that people think these superrich guys joking while people die due to their actions is funny. Reminds me of something Neill Blomkamp would parody.

^ YES.

We're at the point of first-world problems where people don't actually care about politics, and just want to be entertained. Or at least the 1% of social media users who create almost all the content do.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #398 on: January 02, 2023, 09:34:12 AM »
The test of Musk’s irreverent humor will be when he quips “You have tiny testicles” directly to Medvedev, roasts Xi Jinping with “you have a small brain”, and tells Mohammad bin Salman “my pronouns are ‘bone’ and ‘saw’”.

maizefolk

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Re: Twitter
« Reply #399 on: January 11, 2023, 02:00:26 AM »
It's interesting to see that Mastodon usage appears to be dropping (slowly) back down.

Quote
The number of active users on the Mastodon social network has dropped more than 30% since the peak and is continuing a slow decline, according to the latest data posted on its website. There were about 1.8 million active users in the first week of January, down from over 2.5 million in early December.

Are those 700,000 people going back to twitter? Are they kicking the habit entirely and spending more time talking to people face to face or walking outside? Was this a temporary surge of people who weren't ever that active on social media but got excited about making a statement by jumping from twitter to mastadon but now don't have the habit of posting much?