Author Topic: Trump Voters.... why?  (Read 212728 times)

Kris

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #900 on: October 14, 2016, 04:43:26 PM »
Can we all agree that:
1) Trump bragged about sexually assaulting women
2) He is now being accused of what he bragged about by many women
3) Anything Clinton is being accused of (which she never bragged about doing) is just peanuts compared to that?

The dude has grabbed half of the women in Manhattan by the pussy.

It's ironic that while your bullet points seem sort of reasonable, you then end with a blatantly hyperbolic statement that pretty much throws out any reasonableness on your first three points.

Although it occurs to me that if Howard Stern had asked Donald Trump on his show whether he thought he'd grabbed half the women in Manhattan five years ago, before he'd decided to run for president, my guess is his answer would have been an emphatic yes.

Jack

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #901 on: October 14, 2016, 05:05:34 PM »
Invasion of Texas by the black opps
HPV vaccine for girls promotes sex by CDC
Obama founded ISIS
Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster
Planned Parenthood selling baby parts
Obama faked the capture of Bin Laden

. . .

These are just a few examples of the mainstream GOP bat-shit-crazy ideas they have hoisted on the flag and marched with around the town square.  No wonder the knuckle draggers have adopted Trump as the standard bearer of debasement.

Sorry, I just don't believe you that these are "mainstream" Republican beliefs.  If they are, then I don't know any mainstream Republicans but know lots of non-mainstream Republicans.

On one hand, I agree: it's inconceivable that those could be "mainstream" beliefs. On the other hand, Trump repeated at least half of those claims and "mainstream" Republicans elected him as their nominee, so I'm increasingly concerned that it might only be inconceivable in the Princess Bride sense of the word.

Northwestie

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #902 on: October 14, 2016, 05:08:14 PM »
Invasion of Texas by the black opps
HPV vaccine for girls promotes sex by CDC
Obama founded ISIS
Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster
Planned Parenthood selling baby parts
Obama faked the capture of Bin Laden

. .
These are just a few examples of the mainstream GOP bat-shit-crazy ideas they have hoisted on the flag and marched with around the town square.  No wonder the knuckle draggers have adopted Trump as the standard bearer of debasement.

Sorry, I just don't believe you that these are "mainstream" Republican beliefs.  If they are, then I don't know any mainstream Republicans but know lots of non-mainstream Republicans.

How about sitting representatives or Senators - or Governors??

Invasion of Texas by the black opps -- Rick Perry and Ted Cruz in reaction to scheduled Army exercises in Texas
HPV vaccine for girls promotes sex by CDC  - Michelle Bachman
Obama founded ISIS - Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin
Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster - Reince Priebus - GOP chairman, recently quoted
Planned Parenthood selling baby parts -  many, many GOP members in reaction to debunked/doctored tapes
Obama faked the capture of Bin Laden - Steve Dolcy and Andrew Napolitano on numerous Fox News broadcasts.

This is not just on the bottom-of-the barrel sites like Breitbart. Infowars, and such - but mainstream elected officials and of course - the official GOP news site - FOX.

So it's not a stretch to nominate a no nothing blowhard who is developing more of his own dog whistle narrative - disgusting.

Trump also accused Clinton of meeting “in secret with international banks to plot the destruction of U.S. sovereignty in order to enrich these global financial powers, her special interest friends and her donors.”

Yea - why not just come out and say Jews when you mean it - oh, I guess enough of a hint for the red meat crowd but veiled enough for the mainstream.  The Anti-Defamation League already called him on it.



DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #903 on: October 14, 2016, 06:05:24 PM »
So you're position is that Hillary Clinton legitimately took $1,000 and turned it into $100k in less than a year, and then decided, that she would pass on that measly return and go do something else.  That makes sense.  It's pretty clear Hillary Clinton doesn't care about money (that's why she only charges hundreds of thousands of dollars for speeches when she's worth tens of millions), so why would she care about 10,000%+ annual returns.

In 1978 a friend of Hilllary's, convinced her to trade in the commodities futures market, and that's how she made a lot of money from that one time trade. In the late 70's there was a lot of money made (and lost) in commodities, gold, bonds, and real estate. People didn't really buy stock index funds back then, and in fact stocks seemed like pretty bad investments at this time. What Hillary did to buy an interest in cattle futures was not at all illegal. But the volatility of commodity futures was stressful for her so the Clintons didn't invest in those markets further.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/us/politics/hillary-clinton-money.html

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #904 on: October 14, 2016, 06:07:53 PM »

Jrr85

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #905 on: October 14, 2016, 07:49:24 PM »
So you're position is that Hillary Clinton legitimately took $1,000 and turned it into $100k in less than a year, and then decided, that she would pass on that measly return and go do something else.  That makes sense.  It's pretty clear Hillary Clinton doesn't care about money (that's why she only charges hundreds of thousands of dollars for speeches when she's worth tens of millions), so why would she care about 10,000%+ annual returns.

In 1978 a friend of Hilllary's, convinced her to trade in the commodities futures market, and that's how she made a lot of money from that one time trade. In the late 70's there was a lot of money made (and lost) in commodities, gold, bonds, and real estate. People didn't really buy stock index funds back then, and in fact stocks seemed like pretty bad investments at this time. What Hillary did to buy an interest in cattle futures was not at all illegal. But the volatility of commodity futures was stressful for her so the Clintons didn't invest in those markets further.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/us/politics/hillary-clinton-money.html

It wasn't one trade. And I'm thinking there probably weren't a lot of people making 10,000 percent returns then. Just going out on a limb there.

mtnrider

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #906 on: October 15, 2016, 11:37:15 AM »
http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/10/why-people-fall-for-charismatic-leaders/503906/

TL;DR: 1) a sense of powerlessness, 2) entrenched fear, 3) charismatic rhetoric.






LeRainDrop

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #907 on: October 15, 2016, 04:28:51 PM »
Does anyone have thoughts they'd like to share on how they think the stock market will perform after the US presidential election is over?  I generally have nothing to care about the timing of the market, but in this unusual case, I do.  I began a somewhat-planned-somewhat-unplanned sabbatical earlier this year and will probably need to start selling some of my Vanguard funds later this year to cover my ongoing expenses.  It's a bummer to see the market down lately right as I'm heading into a selling period.

sol

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #908 on: October 15, 2016, 04:30:47 PM »
Despite the fact that we're statistically overdue for a market correction, I think the election will be good for stock values.  Markets don't like uncertainty, so I think that having all of the election nonsense behind us will help calm things down.

Kris

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #909 on: October 15, 2016, 04:32:52 PM »
Does anyone have thoughts they'd like to share on how they think the stock market will perform after the US presidential election is over?  I generally have nothing to care about the timing of the market, but in this unusual case, I do.  I began a somewhat-planned-somewhat-unplanned sabbatical earlier this year and will probably need to start selling some of my Vanguard funds later this year to cover my ongoing expenses.  It's a bummer to see the market down lately right as I'm heading into a selling period.

I think the immediate reaction will be:

If Clinton wins: stock market surges.

If Trump wins: stock market plummets.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #910 on: October 15, 2016, 04:53:44 PM »
Does anyone have thoughts they'd like to share on how they think the stock market will perform after the US presidential election is over?  I generally have nothing to care about the timing of the market, but in this unusual case, I do.  I began a somewhat-planned-somewhat-unplanned sabbatical earlier this year and will probably need to start selling some of my Vanguard funds later this year to cover my ongoing expenses.  It's a bummer to see the market down lately right as I'm heading into a selling period.

I think the immediate reaction will be:

If Clinton wins: stock market surges.

If Trump wins: stock market plummets.

I think that's the general consensus, though I'm not sure a Clinton administration will have lasting effects one way or the other compared to other external factors.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #911 on: October 15, 2016, 04:56:00 PM »
Thanks, sol and Kris.  I tend to think you're right.  And that's what I'm hoping for!  (I foresee a Clinton victory.)

Metric Mouse

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #912 on: October 15, 2016, 04:56:46 PM »
Does anyone have thoughts they'd like to share on how they think the stock market will perform after the US presidential election is over?  I generally have nothing to care about the timing of the market, but in this unusual case, I do.  I began a somewhat-planned-somewhat-unplanned sabbatical earlier this year and will probably need to start selling some of my Vanguard funds later this year to cover my ongoing expenses.  It's a bummer to see the market down lately right as I'm heading into a selling period.

I think the immediate reaction will be:

If Clinton wins: stock market surges.

If Trump wins: stock market plummets.

I think that's the general consensus, though I'm not sure a Clinton administration will have lasting effects one way or the other compared to other external factors.

And much like Brexit, I feel that even if stocks dump for Trump, the effects will be short-lived. I'd keep some dry powder ready for November (which I do anyway every year), on thoughts that things will tumble in certain sectors no matter who gets the crown.  Exciting times!

thd7t

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #913 on: October 15, 2016, 06:17:00 PM »
I figure that the likely Clinton victory is/will be priced into the market.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #914 on: October 15, 2016, 06:46:35 PM »
Whether the Federal Reserve will raise interest rates in December will also have an effect on the stock market.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #915 on: October 15, 2016, 08:44:03 PM »
Whether the Federal Reserve will raise interest rates in December will also have an effect on the stock market.
Surely not!
The fed will only raise if the data demands it and the efficient market, having access to the same data, will already  have priced in the raise.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #916 on: October 16, 2016, 06:08:21 AM »
Whether the Federal Reserve will raise interest rates in December will also have an effect on the stock market.
Surely not!
The fed will only raise if the data demands it and the efficient market, having access to the same data, will already  have priced in the raise.

Yeah, but there's been some pretty irrational action around Fed meetings recently. Long-term, I agree, but short-term markets are a different animal.

daverobev

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #917 on: October 16, 2016, 11:42:29 AM »
And much like Brexit, I feel that even if stocks dump for Trump, the effects will be short-lived. I'd keep some dry powder ready for November (which I do anyway every year), on thoughts that things will tumble in certain sectors no matter who gets the crown.  Exciting times!

Yeah, have you seen how far in the shitter the pound is? FTSE 100 is up, but only because it's full of multinational companies that derive their profit from elsewhere. It's up, oh, 10%. The pound is down ~ 15%.

I earn in pounds (and spend in Canadian dollars), so it's... painful.

Lagom

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #918 on: October 16, 2016, 11:47:46 AM »
Now Giuliani is on the election stealing conspiracy train, full force. I would be laughing if I weren't so scared at the implications of enough people believing this nonsense.

sol

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #919 on: October 16, 2016, 02:34:16 PM »
Now Giuliani is on the election stealing conspiracy train, full force.

At least they're consistent.  When Trump said he sexually assaults women and then a bunch of women come forward to say "Yep, reality is just like it was reported to be" the Trump supporters claim both the reporting and the reality were fixed.  When the polls say Trump is losing by 11% nationwide, and then the voters come forward on Nov 8th to say "Yep, reality is just like it was reported to be" the Trump supports are already preparing to say both the reporting and the reality were fixed.

But what better outcome could there be, really?  Trump's whole campaign has been built on the premise that if you say something outrageous with enough conviction, you can MAKE it true.  Eventually, reality has to bring him back down to earth.  I just think it's sad that he's successfully postponed that inevitable reckoning all the way to election day.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #920 on: October 16, 2016, 03:22:17 PM »
Now Giuliani is on the election stealing conspiracy train, full force. I would be laughing if I weren't so scared at the implications of enough people believing this nonsense.
Most people outside the US believe it's all a conspiracy and the entire country is faked on a sound stage in Hollywood

Mark331

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #921 on: October 16, 2016, 09:48:16 PM »
Let's just recap what we've seen thus far:

1. He called Mexicans rapists and demonstrated other racial hatred/insensitivity.
2. He has repeatedly made bigoted statements that shows he views women as nothing more than pieces of meat (even his own daughter, which is creepy as hell).
3. He wants to deport 11 million hard-working Mexicans and spend hundreds of billions on a meaningless wall (oh... sorry.... forgot Mexicans will pay for it).
4. He wants to violate Constitutional rights by rounding up and deporting Muslims.
5. He wants to isolate the US in the world economy.
6. He wants to tear down relationships with democratic allies.
7. He conjures up hate/fear/divisiveness to get votes.
8. He has very thin skin and lashes out at any opposition with immense anger, showing a temperament that is unqualified to lead a fast food restaurant, let alone the United States.
9. He constantly says stupid shit (or punts) in regards to domestic/foreign issues that proves he has no idea on the issues he should have an idea on.
10. He brings the least steady hand to a position that absolutely requires a steady hand (with financial markets and the rest of the world watching).
11. He brings on a VP who is one of the staunchest opponents of LBGT/women's rights in government, and even supports conversion therapy.
12. There are some huge red flags with his/Manafort's connection to Russia/Putin, which is a legitimate national security threat (even if you think he was 'joking' when he committed treason this week).
13. He has taken advantage of contractors, lenders, others by stiffing them in business deals and declaring bankruptcy 6 times.
14. The Trump U. scam and other corrupt business dealings.
15. He's made fun of those with disabilities.
16. He is the 1st presidential nominee that won't share his tax returns (what is he hiding there?).
17. He's on his 3rd wife.
18. He has repeatedly flipped on his positions (sometimes within the same conversation/debate).
19. He provides no ideas, plans, solutions to any of the issues he rails against outside of deporting people, building walls, and isolating the country.
20. Huge ego, puts his interests in front of the interests of all others.
21. Has banned/intimidated/threatened free press from events.
22. He has encouraged violence to protestors at his events.
23. He has zero legitimate foreign/domestic policy experience.
24. He is arguably the least qualified Presidential candidate in history.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff....

I have a genuine interest in understanding why/how any Mustachians could convince themselves to vote for this person.
I mean... let's just be honest here - this is an anonymous forum... Is it all about tax rates for the wealthy above all other principles for you to justify this? Do you legitimately harbor hatred towards certain races/females/others and has Trump struck a chord with you? Do you value train-wreck entertainment as more important than all the harm he could cause to your country? What is it exactly that would make you set aside all the negatives that he brings to the table and be inspired to vote for him?
Its really as simple as this. It boils down to the who ever is the most pro 2nd amendment, and that happens to be Trump. If you lose the 2nd amendment, you lose everything else. Its really that simple. So my vote is with Trump.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #922 on: October 16, 2016, 10:19:22 PM »
Its really as simple as this. It boils down to the who ever is the most pro 2nd amendment, and that happens to be Trump. If you lose the 2nd amendment, you lose everything else. Its really that simple. So my vote is with Trump.
Is that the one allowing women to vote - I thought they were against that?

bacchi

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #923 on: October 16, 2016, 11:04:07 PM »
Its really as simple as this. It boils down to the who ever is the most pro 2nd amendment, and that happens to be Trump. If you lose the 2nd amendment, you lose everything else. Its really that simple. So my vote is with Trump.

Since Obama's executive order from 6/25/2012 already made gun ownership illegal, there's nothing to fear about a Clinton Presidency.

deadlymonkey

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #924 on: October 17, 2016, 07:00:13 AM »
Let's just recap what we've seen thus far:

1. He called Mexicans rapists and demonstrated other racial hatred/insensitivity.
2. He has repeatedly made bigoted statements that shows he views women as nothing more than pieces of meat (even his own daughter, which is creepy as hell).
3. He wants to deport 11 million hard-working Mexicans and spend hundreds of billions on a meaningless wall (oh... sorry.... forgot Mexicans will pay for it).
4. He wants to violate Constitutional rights by rounding up and deporting Muslims.
5. He wants to isolate the US in the world economy.
6. He wants to tear down relationships with democratic allies.
7. He conjures up hate/fear/divisiveness to get votes.
8. He has very thin skin and lashes out at any opposition with immense anger, showing a temperament that is unqualified to lead a fast food restaurant, let alone the United States.
9. He constantly says stupid shit (or punts) in regards to domestic/foreign issues that proves he has no idea on the issues he should have an idea on.
10. He brings the least steady hand to a position that absolutely requires a steady hand (with financial markets and the rest of the world watching).
11. He brings on a VP who is one of the staunchest opponents of LBGT/women's rights in government, and even supports conversion therapy.
12. There are some huge red flags with his/Manafort's connection to Russia/Putin, which is a legitimate national security threat (even if you think he was 'joking' when he committed treason this week).
13. He has taken advantage of contractors, lenders, others by stiffing them in business deals and declaring bankruptcy 6 times.
14. The Trump U. scam and other corrupt business dealings.
15. He's made fun of those with disabilities.
16. He is the 1st presidential nominee that won't share his tax returns (what is he hiding there?).
17. He's on his 3rd wife.
18. He has repeatedly flipped on his positions (sometimes within the same conversation/debate).
19. He provides no ideas, plans, solutions to any of the issues he rails against outside of deporting people, building walls, and isolating the country.
20. Huge ego, puts his interests in front of the interests of all others.
21. Has banned/intimidated/threatened free press from events.
22. He has encouraged violence to protestors at his events.
23. He has zero legitimate foreign/domestic policy experience.
24. He is arguably the least qualified Presidential candidate in history.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff....

I have a genuine interest in understanding why/how any Mustachians could convince themselves to vote for this person.
I mean... let's just be honest here - this is an anonymous forum... Is it all about tax rates for the wealthy above all other principles for you to justify this? Do you legitimately harbor hatred towards certain races/females/others and has Trump struck a chord with you? Do you value train-wreck entertainment as more important than all the harm he could cause to your country? What is it exactly that would make you set aside all the negatives that he brings to the table and be inspired to vote for him?
Its really as simple as this. It boils down to the who ever is the most pro 2nd amendment, and that happens to be Trump. If you lose the 2nd amendment, you lose everything else. Its really that simple. So my vote is with Trump.

Not sure if this is troll post.  Do you have any familiarity with the constitution or government?  Do you get all your news from Fox?  A president cannot get rid of the second amendment.  To do that, the legislature would need 2/3rds support.  Good luck getting that even with a super majority of democrats.  THEN, 3/4 of the states need to agree.  Good luck finding some deep red states to agree to that. 

The supreme court cannot overturn the 2nd amendment.  They rule on the constitutionality of laws, the 2nd amendment is in the constitution, ergo it is law.  They can interpret it differently than you, like making it so not all weapons can be privately owned, but they can't get rid of it.

Scandium

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #925 on: October 17, 2016, 07:53:50 AM »
Now Giuliani is on the election stealing conspiracy train, full force.
I just think it's sad that he's successfully postponed that inevitable reckoning all the way to election day.

I wish. He's already primed his supporters with talk of how the election will be rigged, the media is biased and Hillary should be in jail. Thus her presidency will not be legitimate in their eyes. So it will be the Obama birther/secret muslim* nonsense all over again, except worse. Can't win the election legitimately with your loony-bin Palin, Trump, whatever candidate? Then why not spread nonsense about how the opponent shouldn't even be allowed to be president! You didn't even really loose when your opponent shouldn't have been allowed to play. Why fight on the facts of the issues when you can deny them any power at all?

I predict we can look forward to 4/8 years of whining from pretty mainstream republicans (i.e. fox news) not about Hillary policies, but how she shouldn't have been in power in the first place. This is a pretty serious attack on the cornerstone of democracy; peaceful transfer of power. If your opponent "stole" power, then should any means of stopping them (violence) really be off the table..?


*Even if he was a muslim this would of course in no way disqualify him from being president, but some people believe it does.

ooeei

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #926 on: October 17, 2016, 07:58:07 AM »
Can we all agree that:
1) Trump bragged about sexually assaulting women
2) He is now being accused of what he bragged about by many women
3) Anything Clinton is being accused of (which she never bragged about doing) is just peanuts compared to that?

The dude has grabbed half of the women in Manhattan by the pussy.

It's ironic that while your bullet points seem sort of reasonable, you then end with a blatantly hyperbolic statement that pretty much throws out any reasonableness on your first three points.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but come on, when Trump brags about it and then is accused of it, what are the odds it didn't happen?

Well if we're going based on the few posts above, he hasn't been convicted of anything, thus it didn't happen (or at least we should assume it didn't).  Innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not a trump supporter, but I don't think it's unreasonable that some women see a potential profit for claiming he did things to them, BASED on his comments.  A person half the country hates is accused of assaulting women years ago, all they have to do is be someone who met him (if that), and they can claim he assaulted them and half the country will believe them.  Maybe they get in on a class action lawsuit, maybe he pays them to shut up, maybe they don't want him elected, who knows. 

Not sure if this is troll post.  Do you have any familiarity with the constitution or government?  Do you get all your news from Fox?  A president cannot get rid of the second amendment.  To do that, the legislature would need 2/3rds support.  Good luck getting that even with a super majority of democrats.  THEN, 3/4 of the states need to agree.  Good luck finding some deep red states to agree to that. 

The supreme court cannot overturn the 2nd amendment.  They rule on the constitutionality of laws, the 2nd amendment is in the constitution, ergo it is law.  They can interpret it differently than you, like making it so not all weapons can be privately owned, but they can't get rid of it.

While you're right that they couldn't repeal it, they could certainly cripple it without nearly what you're describing.  Whole classes of guns were outlawed overnight in Massachusetts by their Attorney General earlier this year.  No congress, no vote, just one person interpreting something differently.  Interpretation, restriction, and taxation are all methods by which they can affect the 2nd Amendment (or any other amendment). 

It's virtually illegal in many states to carry a concealed weapon.  Technically it's legal, but they restrict licenses to the point it's functionally impossible for nearly everyone who isn't "connected" politically.  The federal government gets states to do what it wants through restricting funding all the time without having to pass laws.  "We're not saying it's illegal to allow ______, but if you do, we won't give you the $10,000,000 you've been asking for to fix your roads."

It would be much easier than you describe to do any of the things below:

1.  Interpret the 2nd amendment to not include modern weapons
2.  Require strict licensing on the basis that someone has the authority to approve/deny you based on their judgement (and not a set criteria).  This one has already been done in the places with concealed carry issues I mention above.
3.  Tax guns/ammo to the point that it's no longer an option for many people, and puts companies out of business.
4.  Allow manufacturers to be sued when their guns are used in crimes, even though they did nothing illegal.  Similar to allowing Ford or Budweiser to be sued when someone drives drunk.  This result is the same as the taxation one above as it will increase prices.  This one is fully supported by one of the two main candidates at the moment.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 08:00:06 AM by ooeei »

cliffhanger

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #927 on: October 17, 2016, 08:01:27 AM »
Its really as simple as this. It boils down to the who ever is the most pro 2nd amendment, and that happens to be Trump. If you lose the 2nd amendment, you lose everything else. Its really that simple. So my vote is with Trump.

Not sure if this is troll post.  Do you have any familiarity with the constitution or government?  Do you get all your news from Fox?  A president cannot get rid of the second amendment.  To do that, the legislature would need 2/3rds support.  Good luck getting that even with a super majority of democrats.  THEN, 3/4 of the states need to agree.  Good luck finding some deep red states to agree to that. 

The supreme court cannot overturn the 2nd amendment.  They rule on the constitutionality of laws, the 2nd amendment is in the constitution, ergo it is law.  They can interpret it differently than you, like making it so not all weapons can be privately owned, but they can't get rid of it.

I'm not agreeing with the claim that the 2nd amendment can be thrown out, but I also think your analysis isn't complete. There was a Supreme Court case several years back that determine that an individual's right to bear arms is protected by the 2nd amendment. I'd gather that most people would think this as obvious, but it just barely passed with a 5-4 vote. It's possible that another such case could come up and would pass differently with a stack SC. I'm not saying it'll happen, but it is possible.

You also mentioned different interpretation of the law which I agree with. We've see this with the NSA recently. Most people would say that surveillance by the NSA violates the 4th amendment, but the Supreme Court ruled otherwise.

ooeei

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #928 on: October 17, 2016, 08:14:43 AM »
Now Giuliani is on the election stealing conspiracy train, full force.
I just think it's sad that he's successfully postponed that inevitable reckoning all the way to election day.

I wish. He's already primed his supporters with talk of how the election will be rigged, the media is biased and Hillary should be in jail. Thus her presidency will not be legitimate in their eyes. So it will be the Obama birther/secret muslim* nonsense all over again, except worse. Can't win the election legitimately with your loony-bin Palin, Trump, whatever candidate? Then why not spread nonsense about how the opponent shouldn't even be allowed to be president! You didn't even really loose when your opponent shouldn't have been allowed to play. Why fight on the facts of the issues when you can deny them any power at all?

I predict we can look forward to 4/8 years of whining from pretty mainstream republicans (i.e. fox news) not about Hillary policies, but how she shouldn't have been in power in the first place. This is a pretty serious attack on the cornerstone of democracy; peaceful transfer of power. If your opponent "stole" power, then should any means of stopping them (violence) really be off the table..?


*Even if he was a muslim this would of course in no way disqualify him from being president, but some people believe it does.

I mean, this kind of goes both ways doesn't it?  How many democrats were angry about the whole Florida recount thing back with George W and Al Gore?  How many jokes about him being incompetent due to how he pronounced "nuclear" were made?

I think we can look forward to whining from either losing side about the president not being qualified.

sol

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #929 on: October 17, 2016, 08:26:04 AM »
They can interpret it differently than you, like making it so not all weapons can be privately owned, but they can't get rid of it.

Even the most die-hard NRA redneck agrees that not all weapons can be privately owned.  This doesn't require any change of interpretation, everyone already agrees with this one. 

Unless you think convicted terrorists should be able to buy nukes at Walmart.  So far, I haven't found anyone who agrees with that statement.

Northwestie

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #930 on: October 17, 2016, 08:30:21 AM »
Unfortunately the CryBaby has taken the dialog to a new, low level.  He already is speaking and tweeting that the system is rigged - that if he loses it is due to the "vast conspiracy" of media bias and vote rigging.  How this occurs, especially in many swing states and districts led by republicans, appears to be no matter. 

He has debased civil dialog.  It now is ok to ridicule disabled people, women, minorities, immigrants, and even Gold Star families.  The chants of "build the wall", "lock her up", and "dump the cunt" at rallies -- all encouraged by him, is repulsive.

Al Gore was gracious and classy in conceding the election when he lost and asked for support of our newly elected president.  What chance do you think this will occur when the CryBaby loses badly this time around?

sol

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #931 on: October 17, 2016, 08:31:40 AM »
*Even if he was a muslim this would of course in no way disqualify him from being president, but some people believe it does.

I'd bet that the country will have an openly muslim president before it has an openly atheist president.  Islamophobia is rampant in American (see the rise of Donald Trump) but Americans still prefer other people who have crazy ideas about the supernatural to people who don't believe in the supernatural, even if the specific variety of magic they believe in isn't quite the same.

sol

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #932 on: October 17, 2016, 08:35:28 AM »
I don't think it's unreasonable that some women see a potential profit for claiming he did things to them

Wow, talk about victim-shaming.  That was unfortunate.

Generally speaking, people don't enjoy going on television to talk about being sexually assaulted.  Think of the woman closest to you who has been sexually assaulted, and then go ask her if she'd like to go on television to talk about it.  She'll have to include details of who and where and what happened, and then defend against accusations from people like you that she's lying about it to get attention.

deadlymonkey

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #933 on: October 17, 2016, 08:36:44 AM »
Its really as simple as this. It boils down to the who ever is the most pro 2nd amendment, and that happens to be Trump. If you lose the 2nd amendment, you lose everything else. Its really that simple. So my vote is with Trump.

Not sure if this is troll post.  Do you have any familiarity with the constitution or government?  Do you get all your news from Fox?  A president cannot get rid of the second amendment.  To do that, the legislature would need 2/3rds support.  Good luck getting that even with a super majority of democrats.  THEN, 3/4 of the states need to agree.  Good luck finding some deep red states to agree to that. 

The supreme court cannot overturn the 2nd amendment.  They rule on the constitutionality of laws, the 2nd amendment is in the constitution, ergo it is law.  They can interpret it differently than you, like making it so not all weapons can be privately owned, but they can't get rid of it.

I'm not agreeing with the claim that the 2nd amendment can be thrown out, but I also think your analysis isn't complete. There was a Supreme Court case several years back that determine that an individual's right to bear arms is protected by the 2nd amendment. I'd gather that most people would think this as obvious, but it just barely passed with a 5-4 vote. It's possible that another such case could come up and would pass differently with a stack SC. I'm not saying it'll happen, but it is possible.

You also mentioned different interpretation of the law which I agree with. We've see this with the NSA recently. Most people would say that surveillance by the NSA violates the 4th amendment, but the Supreme Court ruled otherwise.

I don't want to derail the thread since we had a gun control thread here somewhere.  The decision you mention was DC v Heller.  It was 5-4 because of some interesting decisions the court took that they had never taken before. 

The majority ruled that the 2nd amendment was tied to the notion of self defense (NRA argument), and therefore handguns (being the most popular weapon for self defense and the focus of the case) became legal in DC.  In the history of the court, this position had never before been taken, the 2nd amendment was always tied to a militia.  This decision severed that bond and opens the doors to a lot of other decisions based on circular reasoning.  "If I use a weapon for self defense, it becomes legal".  Most gun regulations were left intact in this decision, it just made it impossible to issue a blanket ban on handguns. 

Most of the other stuff you mentioned could still happen, but the legislative and legal hurdles to make it happen and stick are very very high.

ooeei

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #934 on: October 17, 2016, 08:43:11 AM »
They can interpret it differently than you, like making it so not all weapons can be privately owned, but they can't get rid of it.

Even the most die-hard NRA redneck agrees that not all weapons can be privately owned.  This doesn't require any change of interpretation, everyone already agrees with this one. 

Unless you think convicted terrorists should be able to buy nukes at Walmart.  So far, I haven't found anyone who agrees with that statement.

This seems to be a point to the "it doesn't take much to restrict things" side of the argument.  If restrictions have already been put in place without the constitution being changed, more restrictions can be put in place without the constitution being changed.

Unfortunately the CryBaby has taken the dialog to a new, low level.  He already is speaking and tweeting that the system is rigged - that if he loses it is due to the "vast conspiracy" of media bias and vote rigging.  How this occurs, especially in many swing states and districts led by republicans, appears to be no matter. 

He has debased civil dialog.  It now is ok to ridicule disabled people, women, minorities, immigrants, and even Gold Star families.  The chants of "build the wall", "lock her up", and "dump the cunt" at rallies -- all encouraged by him, is repulsive.

Al Gore was gracious and classy in conceding the election when he lost and asked for support of our newly elected president.  What chance do you think this will occur when the CryBaby loses badly this time around?

And if Trump wins, can I assume you'll be very gracious and respectful of the new commander in chief, President Crybaby as you'll call him?  Do you think the same of the entire democratic party? 

I don't think it's unreasonable that some women see a potential profit for claiming he did things to them

Wow, talk about victim-shaming.  That was unfortunate.

Generally speaking, people don't enjoy going on television to talk about being sexually assaulted.  Think of the woman closest to you who has been sexually assaulted, and then go ask her if she'd like to go on television to talk about it.  She'll have to include details of who and where and what happened, and then defend against accusations from people like you that she's lying about it to get attention.

It's not victim shaming to admit there is a clear benefit to someone going on and claiming a crime was committed against them.  I didn't say they're lying, but there is a clear motivation for someone to lie, so assuming he's guilty before he's proven so in a court of law is not fair.  The post I responded to basically said he's gotta be guilty because these women are coming forward now.

Of course legitimate victims don't enjoy talking about it.  Someone who's not a victim might not have an issue.  There's research that 4% of the people in society are sociopaths.  Assuming the spread is equal across genders, that's 6,280,000 women in the united states.  Is it really crazy to admit that it's possible a few of them saw some gain to be had by pretending something happened to them? That's assuming only a sociopath would do something terrible like that. Or should we throw out due process and crucify him before a trial?

I get that it sucks that women will be questioned on whether they're telling the truth about assault.  It's horrible.  But what is the alternative?  Assume every woman who reports being assaulted is telling the truth and the accused is a rapist?  There's not a right answer, because in either case if you're wrong someone's life is ruined.  Due process is a thing in our country, it's not perfect, but it's better than witch hunting.  I believe I saw there is new legislation on requirements for rape kits making them more accessible and easier to use, that's a step in the right direction.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 08:45:28 AM by ooeei »

deadlymonkey

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #935 on: October 17, 2016, 08:50:44 AM »
They can interpret it differently than you, like making it so not all weapons can be privately owned, but they can't get rid of it.

Even the most die-hard NRA redneck agrees that not all weapons can be privately owned.  This doesn't require any change of interpretation, everyone already agrees with this one. 

Unless you think convicted terrorists should be able to buy nukes at Walmart.  So far, I haven't found anyone who agrees with that statement.

This seems to be a point to the "it doesn't take much to restrict things" side of the argument.  If restrictions have already been put in place without the constitution being changed, more restrictions can be put in place without the constitution being changed.

Unfortunately the CryBaby has taken the dialog to a new, low level.  He already is speaking and tweeting that the system is rigged - that if he loses it is due to the "vast conspiracy" of media bias and vote rigging.  How this occurs, especially in many swing states and districts led by republicans, appears to be no matter. 

He has debased civil dialog.  It now is ok to ridicule disabled people, women, minorities, immigrants, and even Gold Star families.  The chants of "build the wall", "lock her up", and "dump the cunt" at rallies -- all encouraged by him, is repulsive.

Al Gore was gracious and classy in conceding the election when he lost and asked for support of our newly elected president.  What chance do you think this will occur when the CryBaby loses badly this time around?

And if Trump wins, can I assume you'll be very gracious and respectful of the new commander in chief, President Crybaby as you'll call him?  Do you think the same of the entire democratic party? 

I don't think it's unreasonable that some women see a potential profit for claiming he did things to them

Wow, talk about victim-shaming.  That was unfortunate.

Generally speaking, people don't enjoy going on television to talk about being sexually assaulted.  Think of the woman closest to you who has been sexually assaulted, and then go ask her if she'd like to go on television to talk about it.  She'll have to include details of who and where and what happened, and then defend against accusations from people like you that she's lying about it to get attention.

It's not victim shaming to admit there is a clear benefit to someone going on and claiming a crime was committed against them.  I didn't say they're lying, but there is a clear motivation for someone to lie, so assuming he's guilty before he's proven so in a court of law is not fair.  The post I responded to basically said he's gotta be guilty because these women are coming forward now.

Of course legitimate victims don't enjoy talking about it.  Someone who's not a victim might not have an issue.  There's research that 4% of the people in society are sociopaths.  Assuming the spread is equal across genders, that's 6,280,000 women in the united states.  Is it really crazy to admit that it's possible a few of them saw some gain to be had by pretending something happened to them? That's assuming only a sociopath would do something terrible like that. Or should we throw out due process and crucify him before a trial?

I get that it sucks that women will be questioned on whether they're telling the truth about assault.  It's horrible.  But what is the alternative?  Assume every woman who reports being assaulted is telling the truth and the accused is a rapist?  There's not a right answer, because in either case if you're wrong someone's life is ruined.  Due process is a thing in our country, it's not perfect, but it's better than witch hunting.  I believe I saw there is new legislation on requirements for rape kits making them more accessible and easier to use, that's a step in the right direction.

So even if there were 6 million+ sociopathic women in the country.  These accusers aren't random woman that claims Trump jumped out of the bushes at them.  They have verifiable, plausible stories where it is documented that they were alone with him at certain times when stuff happened.  The fact that there are multiple accounts all with detailed accounts lends credence.  Just like with cosby or with michael jackson.....one or two come forward and it is can be dismissed but when the numbers keep growing and the accusations are both specific and plausible, the build on each other.

Taken with his comments and demonstrated attitude towards woman, the totality of evidence weighs against him even though it is a he said she said case.  The accusation of rape against the 13 year old is more damning because there are 3rd party witnesses.

golden1

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #936 on: October 17, 2016, 08:54:05 AM »
Quote
He's already primed his supporters with talk of how the election will be rigged, the media is biased and Hillary should be in jail. Thus her presidency will not be legitimate in their eyes. So it will be the Obama birther/secret muslim* nonsense all over again, except worse. Can't win the election legitimately with your loony-bin Palin, Trump, whatever candidate? Then why not spread nonsense about how the opponent shouldn't even be allowed to be president! You didn't even really loose when your opponent shouldn't have been allowed to play. Why fight on the facts of the issues when you can deny them any power at all?

I wonder if the Republican establishment will use this as an excuse to not even recognize HRC's actions if she get's elected.  If they made the leap to not confirming a supreme court justice, then this is the next logical step, and Trump has just given them the rationale for not cooperating with her at all, even on a superficial level.

This man is going to try to take the entire system down whether we elect him or not.   

ooeei

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #937 on: October 17, 2016, 08:56:02 AM »
So even if there were 6 million+ sociopathic women in the country.  These accusers aren't random woman that claims Trump jumped out of the bushes at them.  They have verifiable, plausible stories where it is documented that they were alone with him at certain times when stuff happened.  The fact that there are multiple accounts all with detailed accounts lends credence.  Just like with cosby or with michael jackson.....one or two come forward and it is can be dismissed but when the numbers keep growing and the accusations are both specific and plausible, the build on each other.

Taken with his comments and demonstrated attitude towards woman, the totality of evidence weighs against him even though it is a he said she said case.  The accusation of rape against the 13 year old is more damning because there are 3rd party witnesses.

I'll agree that the evidence weighs against him.  To be honest I haven't seen too much about it, and have only heard/seen what people post on facebook or mention in person.  It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that someone would lie about it is all, there is motive there.  If I was a betting man, I'd bet he did it. He's also sleazy and a douche. Then again, I don't know him or any of those women, so I'm not in a position to make the call.

I suppose we'll have to wait on a court to figure out whether he's guilty or not. 

golden1

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #938 on: October 17, 2016, 08:58:39 AM »
If Trump were not who he described himself to be in that Access Hollywood tape, and if it was just one or two women claiming assault, I could see being skeptical.  People were skeptical of Bill Cosby being a rapist until many women came forward because his public persona was squeaky clean. 

The number of accusers is up to 9.  What are the chances that all 9 are lying?  Pretty low.  And combine that with the tape, astronomically low. 


MrMoogle

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #939 on: October 17, 2016, 09:19:26 AM »
3) Anything Clinton is being accused of (which she never bragged about doing) is just peanuts compared to that?

I doubt you'll ever get agreement on that one.  To some conservative voters for whom abortion is murder, Trump could rape a woman on live television and still be a more moral candidate than anyone who has voted to protect abortion access.  Evangelicals see a Holocaust unfolding every day, so a little sexuality assault here and there is small potatoes by comparison.  Even a convicted murderer would be preferable to them than a politician who supports abortion.
I've heard this argument multiple times recently.  Do you support someone who approves half a million to a million murders ever year?  Or someone who has likely sexually assaulted a dozen women over his lifetime? 

If that is how you see things, how would you vote?

Seppia

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #940 on: October 17, 2016, 09:54:08 AM »
Quote
He's already primed his supporters with talk of how the election will be rigged, the media is biased and Hillary should be in jail. Thus her presidency will not be legitimate in their eyes. So it will be the Obama birther/secret muslim* nonsense all over again, except worse. Can't win the election legitimately with your loony-bin Palin, Trump, whatever candidate? Then why not spread nonsense about how the opponent shouldn't even be allowed to be president! You didn't even really loose when your opponent shouldn't have been allowed to play. Why fight on the facts of the issues when you can deny them any power at all?

I wonder if the Republican establishment will use this as an excuse to not even recognize HRC's actions if she get's elected.  If they made the leap to not confirming a supreme court justice, then this is the next logical step, and Trump has just given them the rationale for not cooperating with her at all, even on a superficial level.

This man is going to try to take the entire system down whether we elect him or not.   


I sincerely hope you Americans are not making the same mistake the Brits made.

Everybody was sure the vote was going to go a certain way, everybody was stating it was obvious they were going to stay etc.
I think this motivated the "exit" supporters to ALL show up and vote, while many "stay" supporters could have thought "we've won anyways, I'll stay home and watch soccer".

All of the democrats have to show up at election, too many people are celebrating way too soon.

I am not as apocalyptic as some, because I have the highest respect for America's democracy and I'm sure there are many, many safety features that would prevent any president from doing something REALLY stupid, but with Bush Jr. we have already seen the kind of damage an idiot can do.

I think Trump is much, much worse than George W, as at least he showed up prepared for debates.

The first debate was an eye opener for me
Before, I actually thought Trump was a super smart guy capitalizing on people's dissatisfactions and the anger of those left behind, and that his gaffes and general incendiary language was all part of a very deeply thought about plan.

Then I was like "wait a minute, is he winging it? Against Hillary?!?!?"

How stupid do you have to be to show up against a cyborg like Clinton hoping to just wing it?
She has been relentlessly working for this for decades, and even her strongest opponents recognize she has a terminator-alike determination and drive.

That's the real scary part to me, even worse than the already super insanely scary Wink-Winks Trump continues to send the white supremacists' direction (seriously how is this not a bigger deal?)

There's no cure for stupid.



Northwestie

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #941 on: October 17, 2016, 09:55:38 AM »
Unfortunately the CryBaby has taken the dialog to a new, low level.  He already is speaking and tweeting that the system is rigged - that if he loses it is due to the "vast conspiracy" of media bias and vote rigging.  How this occurs, especially in many swing states and districts led by republicans, appears to be no matter. 

He has debased civil dialog.  It now is ok to ridicule disabled people, women, minorities, immigrants, and even Gold Star families.  The chants of "build the wall", "lock her up", and "dump the cunt" at rallies -- all encouraged by him, is repulsive.

Al Gore was gracious and classy in conceding the election when he lost and asked for support of our newly elected president.  What chance do you think this will occur when the CryBaby loses badly this time around?

And if Trump wins, can I assume you'll be very gracious and respectful of the new commander in chief, President Crybaby as you'll call him?  Do you think the same of the entire democratic party?

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The default for a presidential candidate is respect because of the weight of the position.  Romney and McCain - if you did not agree with their policy views, you could be assured they would carry themselves and present themselves around the world, with dignity, class, and integrity.


What are we to think when a candidate brags about grabbing women by the pussy - which in case you didn't realize is sexual assault.  The Crybaby had a platform on which to explain what policies he stood for and how these were better than those proposed by H.  Instead he has spent his time insulting and denigrating women, disabled people, and a slew of minorities - he has made crass behavior and vitriolic comments commonplace - as if this is an acceptable substitute for a fierce debate on issues.

He has not shown respect and does not deserves any in return.  He is a little man and will lose the election badly because of it.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 10:45:18 AM by Northwestie »

dividendman

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #942 on: October 17, 2016, 10:40:57 AM »
As for the legitimacy of the election, Trump has, as usual, his profit motive to de-legitimize the voting process. He's starting his own TV channel so his supporters will have their own fox-like echo chamber:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-tv-venture_us_5804d13fe4b0e8c198a8f3cb

I believe this was his plan all along (getting publicity out of the election process for personal financial gain), and that he didn't realize he could so easily, or so successfully, dupe the republican primary electorate and thought he would be out by now. But, since he's in, he's going all out on riling up his base instead of trying to win the election so he has views/consumers for his TV channel.

golden1

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #943 on: October 17, 2016, 11:02:12 AM »
Quote
I sincerely hope you Americans are not making the same mistake the Brits made.

Everybody was sure the vote was going to go a certain way, everybody was stating it was obvious they were going to stay etc.
I think this motivated the "exit" supporters to ALL show up and vote, while many "stay" supporters could have thought "we've won anyways, I'll stay home and watch soccer".

All of the democrats have to show up at election, too many people are celebrating way too soon.

I agree.  I think too many people think HRC has this in the bag, and I don't think it is as much of a done deal as her supporters would like to think.  I think that there is still too much volatility in the new cycle and that it will continue in the next three weeks.  Trump is going to double, triple, quadruple down on the crazy which is going to drive his minions to the polls.  HRC doesn't have that enthusiasm. 

However, with Brexit, the polls were much closer than this US election, with a few towards the end pointing to leave.  SO, hopefully, there is more headroom here.   

MrMoogle

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #944 on: October 17, 2016, 11:04:09 AM »
Quote
I sincerely hope you Americans are not making the same mistake the Brits made.

Everybody was sure the vote was going to go a certain way, everybody was stating it was obvious they were going to stay etc.
I think this motivated the "exit" supporters to ALL show up and vote, while many "stay" supporters could have thought "we've won anyways, I'll stay home and watch soccer".

All of the democrats have to show up at election, too many people are celebrating way too soon.

I agree.  I think too many people think HRC has this in the bag, and I don't think it is as much of a done deal as her supporters would like to think.  I think that there is still too much volatility in the new cycle and that it will continue in the next three weeks.  Trump is going to double, triple, quadruple down on the crazy which is going to drive his minions to the polls.  HRC doesn't have that enthusiasm. 

However, with Brexit, the polls were much closer than this US election, with a few towards the end pointing to leave.  SO, hopefully, there is more headroom here.   
I think Trump's crazy will drive HRC's support to the polls :)

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #945 on: October 17, 2016, 11:32:36 AM »
Wasn't the Brexit a single-issue ballot? We still have senators, congressman, local leaders, and referenda to consider, even if some people are unenthusiastic about their presidential nominees. I doubt that this will be a low-turnout election, as I also agree with MrMoogle that Trump is just as likely to drive his opponents to the polls as he is his supporters.

Gin1984

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #946 on: October 17, 2016, 11:43:14 AM »
Wasn't the Brexit a single-issue ballot? We still have senators, congressman, local leaders, and referenda to consider, even if some people are unenthusiastic about their presidential nominees. I doubt that this will be a low-turnout election, as I also agree with MrMoogle that Trump is just as likely to drive his opponents to the polls as he is his supporters.
The democrats have an issue bringing their supporters to the polls for those.  It is one reason the GOP normally wins during "midterm" elections.

Northwestie

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #947 on: October 17, 2016, 12:00:07 PM »
Wasn't the Brexit a single-issue ballot? We still have senators, congressman, local leaders, and referenda to consider, even if some people are unenthusiastic about their presidential nominees. I doubt that this will be a low-turnout election, as I also agree with MrMoogle that Trump is just as likely to drive his opponents to the polls as he is his supporters.
The democrats have an issue bringing their supporters to the polls for those.  It is one reason the GOP normally wins during "midterm" elections.

This is another fallacy of the Crybaby supporters - that the polls are wrong.  Sheesh, just look at all the people here at this rally!!

Landslide pending.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #948 on: October 17, 2016, 12:00:36 PM »
Wasn't the Brexit a single-issue ballot? We still have senators, congressman, local leaders, and referenda to consider, even if some people are unenthusiastic about their presidential nominees. I doubt that this will be a low-turnout election, as I also agree with MrMoogle that Trump is just as likely to drive his opponents to the polls as he is his supporters.
The democrats have an issue bringing their supporters to the polls for those.  It is one reason the GOP normally wins during "midterm" elections.

That's true to some extent, but the biggest reason that we have become accustomed to seeing big Republican wins during midterm elections is that we have had a sitting Democratic president for 4 of the last 6 midterms. 538 has a couple of good articles on this phenomenon.

Quote
To explain why the electorate has alternated between leaning Democratic in recent presidential years and Republican during midterms, Obama argued that Democratic-leaning constituents are less likely to vote in midterm years. There’s some truth to that. But it’s not the main force behind the recent swings, as FiveThirtyEight’s Harry Enten has shown. Think about the math: Each voter who sits out a midterm costs his party one vote, while each voter who switches parties adds a vote to the new party while taking one away from the old party. The more powerful engine for change is that voters are changing their minds — and for decades, they’ve leaned against the party holding the White House.

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Re: Trump Voters.... why?
« Reply #949 on: October 17, 2016, 01:04:18 PM »
I see little to no reason why this election would be low turnout. Presidential elections always draw out voters. Some people are saying they wont vote but I suspect most are simply tired of being shamed for their pick. The election is so chaotic and polarizing turn out should be well above the norm.

Any negative news about Trumps shiftiness as a person only feeds into the narrative that the media is so biased that they are making shit up to tear him down. Sure the media is biased for Hillary, but come on Trump spoon feeds the news bad press.

The fact the people seriously doubt that a rich entitled asshole like Trump didn't diddle countless women on the side while hanging out with jerk offs like Roger Ailes is stunning. The man who has a boat load of kids by 3 different super model wives. Yeah no way he has a pension for straying and going after attractive women.

The pattern of a domino effect of people coming out accusing Trump always happens this way when the accused are well known, liked and wealthy. Happened to Cosby and it happened to Roger the same way recently. These women gain nothing but scorn, shaming and death threats by coming out. Unless you chose to believe that the Clinton campaign has paid them all off. Which should be easy to prove one way or the other.