Author Topic: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.  (Read 10393 times)

nereo

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OP's note: 
It's probably fair to say that I've been consumed by this year's presidential election.
Simply having both candidates disliked by the majority of the electorate is interesting.
Recently I've been pondering how each candidate's lives might change if they lose in November, and to me the changes for Trump seem far greater than for Clinton, and I believe there's a great likelihood that there could be a domino-effect on Trump should he lose on the largest of stages.

This is simply a thought exercise. Feel free to give your own alternative prediction(s).


The big idea: Donald Trump’s brand is built on the idea of luxury and exclusivity, and he’s made the bulk of his money by selling goods and services at a steep markup while leveraging his debt. Assuming he fails to win the presidency in November his ability to continue to follow this pattern will be severely compromised. While it may be a stretch to assume his businesses will fail, his brand may never reap the profit margins it did before, costing him untold millions annually.

How this could happen

Trump has been a polarizing figure in politics to put it mildly. Curiously, the reported billionaire has exploited populist appeal and his core support comes from white, blue collar workers. Registered republicans with advanced degrees are among the least likely of his voters to be avid supporters (they are party voters, not Trump voters), and Trump has record levels of opposition with registered democrats.

The political fallout.
As Trump himself would say, “Nobody likes a loser.” Republicans in particular hate the idea of losing to a candidate they have spent decades on opposing and delegitimizing.  Party identify runs very deep in the US, but few Republicans associate Trump with Republicanism. The hard core conservatives will be quick to turn their back on Trump.  They’ll say, “the reason we lost is because we again failed to nominate a true conservative” and “republicans win when it comes down to a discussion on values and ideals”. Most long-term politicians will close their doors because “you couldn’t even beat Hillary.  HILLARY!!” Republican mega-donors are far too practical: they only back individuals that have a shot at winning.  The working professionals that make up a good chunk of the Republican electorate will go back to blaming Clinton for every ailment in our country and blaming Clinton (and Obama) for it.  Trump’s chances (and even desire) of being a US senator in NY are practically nil, so his political career is over.

After the election and its aftermath, who’s left supporting Trump?
Here’s where the rubber meets the road.  The people who will continue to support Trump will be his most passionate supporters now.  These are mostly blue-collar, white, rural or exurban individuals. Problem: his businesses cater to the affluent suburban and urban individual who can afford an $850 night hotel room or a $400 round of golf.  Many of them (those that are Democrats and the true Republican conservatives) will be so turned off by his presidential bid that they’ll avoid anything named Trump.  Others might not care, but they won’t pay a premium to stay at Trump’s new hotel in DC when there’s a Westin or Fairmont nearby for considerably less.  The ones that are left supporting him are individuals that aren’t Trump’s target audience. Contractors are run by people, and they’ve all heard the accusations of him stiffing contractors and may be more cautious when doing business with the Trump Organization. And since many of the long term politicians have turned their backs on him (see above) district attorneys are going to be more open about pursuing complaints against his businesses. I believe we're already seeing that with NY ordering the Trump Foundation to cease raising money and undergo an audit.

The bottom line
The Trump brand will lose it's luster. It will no longer have the competitive edge that it once had and it may even become a liability. Businesses will be less willing to pay Trump a large percentage of their profits simply to stick his name on the label. To be fair, DJT (the man) will most likely be just fine; Fox will most likely offer him a few million to be a commentator (allowing him to stroke his own ego in the process by saying "i told you so!" and claiming everything would have been peaches and roses if he were in power). Some network will almost certainly offer him a show, though probably not for the $213MM that NBC awarded him for The Apprentice. However, the Trump Organization and his own personal wealth will never again approach what they were (how much that actually was we can only guess) before he announced his presidential bid.

Of course I could be completely wrong. Maybe the increased media exposure will mean that his businesses will do even better and he'll reap massive financial rewards. What do you think?

pbkmaine

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2016, 08:38:41 AM »
I think he will start a new network with Roger Ailes and the Breitbart people. What's more, it could be very successful. Yuge.

nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2016, 08:47:10 AM »
I think he will start a new network with Roger Ailes and the Breitbart people. What's more, it could be very successful. Yuge.

Possibly.  One thing my scenario didn't account for was Trump's ability to re-invent himself.  He started out in real-estate, seeking to remake the NYC skyline.  Then he dabbled in gambling casinos for a decade before he decided to sell his name as an actual brand, licensing it out.  Then he became a reality-TV star.

There's certainly the opportunity that he could create something new... like you said he could partner with Ailes and tap into alt-Right and their money streams.  Who knows...

Jeremy E.

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2016, 08:51:26 AM »
Even if Trump wins, I think his businesses do worse. Prior to this, I'm sure many democrats didn't know how unethical Trump was and gave business to him. Now regardless of whether or not he wins, I'm guessing many of those democrats will never do business with a Trump company again.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2016, 09:34:08 AM »
Here in rather more multi-cultural Vancouver the new $Bn trump tower has had the "TRUMP" name covered over - although since they have wrapped each individual giant letter in it's own tarp it is still pretty obvious.
There is a motion to the city to demand the name not be allowed (it's not clear they have the power) and a grass roots campaign to refer to it as the Erikson tower (after the architect)

A bigger problem might be trying to get rich immigrant buyers to pay a premium for an apartment there.


nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2016, 10:11:11 AM »
Here in rather more multi-cultural Vancouver the new $Bn trump tower has had the "TRUMP" name covered over - although since they have wrapped each individual giant letter in it's own tarp it is still pretty obvious.
There is a motion to the city to demand the name not be allowed (it's not clear they have the power) and a grass roots campaign to refer to it as the Erikson tower (after the architect)

A bigger problem might be trying to get rich immigrant buyers to pay a premium for an apartment there.

Due to the new laws restricting foreign ownership?  Or for some other reason...?

thd7t

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2016, 11:14:56 AM »
I think he will start a new network with Roger Ailes and the Breitbart people. What's more, it could be very successful. Yuge.
I'm sure Ailes has a non-compete with Fox.

tonysemail

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2016, 11:37:31 AM »
agreed with the premise, except that Donald is too old to be held responsible for future business failure (sorry for the ageism!).
I think the reins get turned over to his kids.
The fork in the road is whether they co-operate to fix and stabilize the brand.
Or whether they squabble and fight over a diminishing pie... accelerating the collapse.

http://therealdeal.com/issues_articles/next-in-line/

"One thing is certain, whoever takes the helm will have to navigate a public relations crisis. Following his controversial comments about Mexican immigrants, Trump has lost a string of business deals with top companies including NBC Universal, Univision and Macy’s. In December, the Dubai-based Landmark Group announced that it would remove Trump-branded products from 180 stores across the Middle East after Trump declared that as president he would temporarily block the entrance of Muslims into the U.S."

Scandium

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2016, 11:38:38 AM »
Nope. All PR = good PR.
Fox has sucked for decades, being only slightly less openly racist that Trump. And it's the most successful TV network. I predict TrumpTV will make bazillios. This will be seen as the best advertising/launch tour in history.

And are you saying that gambling addicts and people who overpay for disgustingly gaudy hotels would have a moral issue with Trump the man? haha.

TrMama

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2016, 11:54:44 AM »
Here in rather more multi-cultural Vancouver the new $Bn trump tower has had the "TRUMP" name covered over - although since they have wrapped each individual giant letter in it's own tarp it is still pretty obvious.
There is a motion to the city to demand the name not be allowed (it's not clear they have the power) and a grass roots campaign to refer to it as the Erikson tower (after the architect)

A bigger problem might be trying to get rich immigrant buyers to pay a premium for an apartment there.

Due to the new laws restricting foreign ownership?  Or for some other reason...?

Because it's becoming more and more clear that the Vancouver market has peaked. The decline is being helped along by the new foreign buyer tax imposed on properties in the Vancouver core, the crackdown on non-residents claiming their Canadian properties as primary residences (to avoid capital gains tax) and general political agitation aimed at cooling the market. AKA, none of these have anything to do with Trump.

Though renaming that tower to anything other than "Trump" will certainly improve their chances of selling the units in it. I've yet to speak to any Canadian who isn't completely horrified by the possibility of Trump becoming president.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2016, 12:48:19 PM »

A bigger problem might be trying to get rich immigrant buyers to pay a premium for an apartment there.

Due to the new laws restricting foreign ownership?  Or for some other reason...?
Due to it being slightly tricky to tell Muslims that it's worth paying more for the prestige of having the Trump name.
A bit like the sales pitch for the new Hitler Synagogue

golden1

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2016, 12:58:36 PM »
He will make more money than he ever has before, whether he loses or wins.  His supporters aren't the just poor white demographic that most people think they are.  Here in MA, most of the houses that have Trump signs are the nicer ones in my neighborhood.  They are the sales guys, or the finance guys, still doing fairly well financially, but culturally alienated (try being conservative in MA).  He is their hero.  Trust me, there is plenty of money to be made off of his supporters.  If he loses, Trump media will launch by mid 2017.  All the people supporting him will get jobs as pundits. 


golden1

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2016, 01:00:47 PM »
BTW, he hasn't done real estate as his primary business for awhile.  Frontline covered this in their recent election special.  His primary business is his brand.  Someone else builds the buildings, he just puts his name on them.  The smartest thing he ever did was hold on to his name after the bankruptcy. 

nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2016, 01:45:36 PM »
BTW, he hasn't done real estate as his primary business for awhile.  Frontline covered this in their recent election special.  His primary business is his brand.  Someone else builds the buildings, he just puts his name on them.  The smartest thing he ever did was hold on to his name after the bankruptcy.

yes, as stated in response #2.
I see you point that he could wind up even more wealthy than before... that there's enough supporters out there to fuel anything he does in the future.I just don't see most of those supporters sticking around - a unifying theme seems to be hatred of HRC (see chants of "Lock-her-up!") and the desire to support an anti-establishment candidate. My hypothesis is that, should he lose, his support will dry up and shift to someone else.
A key weakness with branding is that you need people to pay a premium for the brand - if that brand loses its halo so does the profit margin.

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2016, 03:53:22 PM »
He's already hurting because of it.  Something like 63-70% of the country won't be his customer ever again.  His financial disclosures show a staggering diversity of assets and money streams, so I don't think he'll ever be poor, he's attained that level of wealth where you'd need to engage in a vast criminal conspiracy that gets your accounts/assets frozen or seized to lose it all.

I think long term he probably has reduced the potential future wealth he could have achieved, but he'll still be able to sell books and manage his finances just as "wisely" as he always has.  His name is just another asset, he may have spent it foolishly (even if he wins, it is unlikely his brand recovers) but he has a lot of other assets.

His kids and their kids would all have to be asshats to end up broke, but it could happen.

nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2016, 04:28:34 PM »
...
His kids and their kids would all have to be asshats to end up broke, but it could happen.
I've thought about this... Trump has 5 kids and 8 grandkids (with the possibility of more).  Assuming his assets are split equally between them, they'd each get 20% after whatever estate taxes are paid and the creditors get their share. Will they end up broke?  like you said they'd ahve to be asshats for that to happen, but it's speculate how $1BB net worth could become a few million for each grandchildren once it gets subdivided, taxed and used to live an oppulant lifestyle.  Of course it could go the other way... that money could generate more money. 

Glenstache

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2016, 06:54:37 PM »
The fraud conviction that seems likely out of the Trump U case (which will start soon after the election, and in which Trump will take the stand) is probably more likely to tarnish his luster. He will prbably either take the fifth a lot, admit to being an unabashed shill, or be held in contempt of court. 

nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2016, 07:40:39 PM »
The fraud conviction that seems likely out of the Trump U case (which will start soon after the election, and in which Trump will take the stand) is probably more likely to tarnish his luster. He will prbably either take the fifth a lot, admit to being an unabashed shill, or be held in contempt of court.

Based on his previous deposition, I"m guessing it will be a combination of him saying "I cannot recall" and taking the 5th.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/284716-trump-doesnt-recall-claim-of-having-worlds-greatest-memory

nobodyspecial

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2016, 08:31:33 PM »
The fraud conviction that seems likely out of the Trump U case (which will start soon after the election, and in which Trump will take the stand) is probably more likely to tarnish his luster. He will prbably either take the fifth a lot, admit to being an unabashed shill, or be held in contempt of court.
Or claiming that everything bad was done without his knowledge and his honest name has been dragged through the mud by unscrupulous crooks and there is no paperwork proving that he knew anything ever.
You don't get to be rich in real estate without having some very good lawyers and accountants

nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2016, 05:42:40 AM »
The fraud conviction that seems likely out of the Trump U case (which will start soon after the election, and in which Trump will take the stand) is probably more likely to tarnish his luster. He will prbably either take the fifth a lot, admit to being an unabashed shill, or be held in contempt of court.
Or claiming that everything bad was done without his knowledge and his honest name has been dragged through the mud by unscrupulous crooks and there is no paperwork proving that he knew anything ever.
You don't get to be rich in real estate without having some very good lawyers and accountants
...and you don't get major real estate projects done in NYC without lots of dealing with the labor-union bosses, the mafia, the scores of small neighborhood groups.
I'm skeptical that any legal charges will stick to Trump - he's been pretty slippery in the past (with lots of good lawyers around him, as you said). More likely he'll settle the ones he can't win and force other people who can't afford an expensive trial to drop out. He's frequently bragged to complaintifs that "It'll cost you more to fight me than you'll get in court".

BlueHouse

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2016, 06:25:59 AM »
 
Quote
Many of them (those that are Democrats and the true Republican conservatives) will be so turned off by his presidential bid that they’ll avoid anything named Trump. 
I think you underestimate the levels of hypocrisy in people who are able and willing to pay huge amounts of money for something with little tangible value.

nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2016, 07:49:44 AM »
Quote
Many of them (those that are Democrats and the true Republican conservatives) will be so turned off by his presidential bid that they’ll avoid anything named Trump. 
I think you underestimate the levels of hypocrisy in people who are able and willing to pay huge amounts of money for something with little tangible value.

Quite possible.  The question remains, though - will they pay more for something (a hotel room, glass of wine, etc) just because it has Trump on the label?  or will that brand-recognition disappear?

oldtoyota

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2016, 07:35:31 AM »
I think he will start a new network with Roger Ailes and the Breitbart people. What's more, it could be very successful. Yuge.

Possibly.  One thing my scenario didn't account for was Trump's ability to re-invent himself.  He started out in real-estate, seeking to remake the NYC skyline.  Then he dabbled in gambling casinos for a decade before he decided to sell his name as an actual brand, licensing it out.  Then he became a reality-TV star.

There's certainly the opportunity that he could create something new... like you said he could partner with Ailes and tap into alt-Right and their money streams.  Who knows...

Eventually, he will die. I'm curious about what happens after that. I figure he has about another 5-10 years to continue damaging the world. Then, maybe, his kids take over.

However, I find it hard to believe that his kids truly like him. Being raised by a narcissist is not easy and I'm sure Ivanka can't love comments from her dad about her looks and body and "blood coming from wherever," etc.

On the other hand--and contradicting my surprise that his kids can like him--he might have the upper hand with his kids as they seem to save his mementos (ie, Tiffany saving items her dad wrote when it's usually the parent who saves the kid's stuff) and focus on him as opposed to the other way around.

I know I don't have the inside scoop on any of this and recognize some of this is conjecture, but I do feel strongly that at least three of his kids have had a taste of power and will want to continue--especially Ivanka who is DT's favorite and comes off as the smartest of the four older ones.






TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2016, 11:36:08 AM »
Quote
Many of them (those that are Democrats and the true Republican conservatives) will be so turned off by his presidential bid that they’ll avoid anything named Trump. 
I think you underestimate the levels of hypocrisy in people who are able and willing to pay huge amounts of money for something with little tangible value.

Quite possible.  The question remains, though - will they pay more for something (a hotel room, glass of wine, etc) just because it has Trump on the label?  or will that brand-recognition disappear?

Right now they aren't willing to.  I don't see why that would change going forward.

http://fortune.com/2016/08/01/donald-trump-hotels-sales/

From the article: "Trump hotel bookings have plummeted nearly 60% for the first half of 2016..."

also:

“We did, in fact, find that there was a Trump premium prior to his campaign and that it vanished in the first five months of 2016.”

He's turned it around before.  I remember him being a total joke of a useless loser real estate con-man in the 90's and then it's like he was everywhere with reality tv crap.  Now he's running for president.  Nothing makes sense with him so I guess anything is possible.

nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2016, 12:36:27 PM »

Quite possible.  The question remains, though - will they pay more for something (a hotel room, glass of wine, etc) just because it has Trump on the label?  or will that brand-recognition disappear?
Right now they aren't willing to.  I don't see why that would change going forward.

http://fortune.com/2016/08/01/donald-trump-hotels-sales/

From the article: "Trump hotel bookings have plummeted nearly 60% for the first half of 2016..."

Interesting if this is actually the case - unfortuantely the metric seems far from a perfect one. I think a better one will be comparing actual booking prices over time and compared to similar establishments.

scottish

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2016, 10:22:58 AM »
M. Trump is basically a con-man.    He says things in such a passionate manner that people believe him.    He will continue do this after the presidential election whether he wins or loses.   This is my favourite article describing trumpism:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/at-the-core-of-trumps-campaign-is-promise-of-collusion-but-its-all-a-scam/article32294250/


aspiringnomad

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2016, 04:06:22 PM »
For what it's worth, Mark Cuban agrees:

https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/784610064116150273


nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2016, 07:39:06 PM »
For what it's worth, Mark Cuban agrees:

https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/784610064116150273
"Madoff has a better rep than Trump"? Ouch.

BlueHouse

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2016, 12:03:28 PM »
Quote
Many of them (those that are Democrats and the true Republican conservatives) will be so turned off by his presidential bid that they’ll avoid anything named Trump. 
I think you underestimate the levels of hypocrisy in people who are able and willing to pay huge amounts of money for something with little tangible value.

Quite possible.  The question remains, though - will they pay more for something (a hotel room, glass of wine, etc) just because it has Trump on the label?  or will that brand-recognition disappear?
It's not the name brand really, it's the level of perceived exclusivity that drives people to pay crazy money for things.  Yes, there are many people in this area that would love to stay in his hotel because of the opulence and luxury and because they can say they've done something that so few of their acquaintances have done.  They want that edge and that unique experience that others haven't yet had.  And they want to be the first so that when someone else says they've done it, they can say "oh, yes, I've been there and done that."
Evidence:  Multiple restaurants around here have started charging fixed price of $250 or more for the "experience".  These restaurants have lines out the door every day of the week and have for months.  Now another restaurant is doing the same thing with absoutely no track record.  And yes, the price and exclusivity seems to increase demand!

back to the Trump Brand and hypocrisy:  I visit Trump National probably once a month or more as a guest and I pay nothing.  It's hard to pass that up just because it has his name on it.  If you live on the golf course and are already a member, you can't boycott unless you're also willing to lose the value of your membership (memberships are resold for a portion of what you paid to join...as long as there is a market there) so I don't anticipate my relatives boycotting on principle anytime soon. 

nobodyspecial

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2016, 12:17:04 PM »
And the value of that name can fall very quickly.
Michael Jackson branded childcare centers might have exclusivity - but I doubt they attract much of a premium

bobechs

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2016, 03:12:49 PM »
Trump branded guns.

Trump branded ammunition.

'Nuff sed...


Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2016, 03:35:18 PM »
I think you are missing the fact that quite a few rich people say the same kind of racist, misogynist things that Trump does when they are among their own.   I am talking about the people who buy their kid a 2nd Ferrari when he totals the first one in the courtyard of Brown University.

Kind of like Thomas Jefferson's buddies probably were saying "I'd hit that" for their own slave girls too.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2016, 04:14:00 PM »
I think you are missing the fact that quite a few rich people say the same kind of racist, misogynist things that Trump does when they are among their own.   I am talking about the people who buy their kid a 2nd Ferrari when he totals the first one in the courtyard of Brown University.
They aren't the market for Trump casinos or Hotels.

It's not the Kardasians - it's the people who watch the Kardasians. The Lexus customers not the Lamborghini.
ie. upper middle class with new money and no taste, and (at least in this city) a lot of those are Chinese, Indian or Black - very few of them are Nascar watching NRA members.
 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 04:15:35 PM by nobodyspecial »

dividendman

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2016, 05:32:38 PM »
Even if Trump wins, I think his businesses do worse. Prior to this, I'm sure many democrats didn't know how unethical Trump was and gave business to him. Now regardless of whether or not he wins, I'm guessing many of those democrats will never do business with a Trump company again.

Prior to this, democrats KNEW how unethical Hillary was...and they STILL support her. Heck, they supported Bill while knowing he was a sexual predator accused of sexual abuses by more than a dozen women.

All of these heinous acts are OK...as long as they are done by the right people. If not, well, you see what the "unbiased" left wing media has been doing to Trump for almost 2 years now. Good luck to you if you run for office against a liberal Democrat.

Note that being accused of something is very different to being caught on tape bragging about it.

nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2016, 02:03:24 PM »
An op-ed from the Washington Post's conservative politics writer Jennifer Rubin seems relevant to this thread:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/10/10/the-irony-of-ironies-trump-destroys-the-brand/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-b%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.45241893ec72

an excerpt:
Quote from: Jennifer Rubin
Not only will Trump lose the 2016 election, but also his "brand” — such as it is now — is that of a creepy old man, a bigot, a misogynist...

Think about this. Who would want a “degree” from Trump University? Who thinks he will seem classy and sophisticated staying in a Trump hotel? What developer is going to want to put Trump’s name on his building?

Sure, there will be the less-educated, poor white men who admire Trump and maybe buy his books (when they come out in paperback), but these are not his core customers, his hotel guests, his business partners or his bankers. If doing business with Trump now earns you a slew of awful publicity (e.g. women boycotting, Hispanics picketing), why would you do business with the country’s most infamous sleazebag? His name has long been associated with crass excess and garish taste, a poor man’s version of how the rich live. Now his name is synonymous with gross lechery.

Papa Mustache

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2016, 07:28:51 AM »
Apparently there is preliminary talk of Trump starting his own TV network(s).

https://www.marketplace.org/2016/06/17/economy/mid-day-update/mid-day-update

I heard it mentioned again in passing this morn on NPR.

deadlymonkey

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2016, 07:43:13 AM »
Apparently there is preliminary talk of Trump starting his own TV network(s).

https://www.marketplace.org/2016/06/17/economy/mid-day-update/mid-day-update

I heard it mentioned again in passing this morn on NPR.

This has been discussed pretty extensively.  Even before the presidential run, his "brand" was hurting.  His hotels are mostly doing poorly, his new DC hotel is already in trouble, most of his gold courses operate in the red.  Bringing out half the staff of breitbart to his campaign kind sealed the deal that he is going to parlay his supporters into money for a conservative "news" operation to the right of foxnews.  Made for the people that thing Fox is too liberal.  They have roger ailes now, breitbart and several other of the "Alt-right" or ultra-conservative group to set it up.  That will be the new cash cow for Trump.

nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2016, 07:46:34 AM »
Apparently there is preliminary talk of Trump starting his own TV network(s).

https://www.marketplace.org/2016/06/17/economy/mid-day-update/mid-day-update

I heard it mentioned again in passing this morn on NPR.

This has been mentioned in a number of outlets, and it seems like one way that DJT could 'monetize' his support.  Similar to the way that Fox news became financially successful by catering to the conservative right...

Questions remain whether he can be as successful doing this or whether he'll face stiff opposition from the likes of Fox, Breitbart, InfoWars, etc. 
These days there are news outlets for every political bend - perhaps DJT can divide, conquer and consolidate, or perhaps his will be just another angry voice in the noise of the web.

ooeei

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2016, 08:31:31 AM »
I think you're very much underestimating D. T.  He may be terrible, everyone's saying it, people everywhere tell me he's the worst, but the guy knows how to make money.  It's possible he won't make as much as before, but I'm not betting against him.  As someone said above, all publicity is good publicity. 

You're also overestimating people's morals when it comes to spending their money.  Foxconn in China was all over the news a couple years ago for working conditions so poor people jumped out of their buildings, yet Apple (their biggest customer) saw virtually no spending restrictions by their largely whole foods shopper type customer base.  Human rights are critically important to them, but come on, iphones and macs are great.

disclaimer:  I have an iphone and have shopped at whole foods.

deadlymonkey

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2016, 08:40:19 AM »
I think you're very much underestimating D. T.  He may be terrible, everyone's saying it, people everywhere tell me he's the worst, but the guy knows how to make money.  It's possible he won't make as much as before, but I'm not betting against him.  As someone said above, all publicity is good publicity. 

You're also overestimating people's morals when it comes to spending their money.  Foxconn in China was all over the news a couple years ago for working conditions so poor people jumped out of their buildings, yet Apple (their biggest customer) saw virtually no spending restrictions by their largely whole foods shopper type customer base.  Human rights are critically important to them, but come on, iphones and macs are great.

disclaimer:  I have an iphone and have shopped at whole foods.

No doubt he will make a lot of money with his new media empire.  I believe is a great marketer of himself, but not a great businessman.  If passive investment would have made him far richer than this "business dealings" then he can't call himself a businessman.

nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2016, 08:47:47 AM »
I think you're very much underestimating D. T.  He may be terrible, everyone's saying it, people everywhere tell me he's the worst, but the guy knows how to make money.  It's possible he won't make as much as before, but I'm not betting against him.  As someone said above, all publicity is good publicity. 

You're also overestimating people's morals when it comes to spending their money.  Foxconn in China was all over the news a couple years ago for working conditions so poor people jumped out of their buildings, yet Apple (their biggest customer) saw virtually no spending restrictions by their largely whole foods shopper type customer base.  Human rights are critically important to them, but come on, iphones and macs are great.

disclaimer:  I have an iphone and have shopped at whole foods.

I could be underestimating DJT; he's ccertainly shown himself adept at reinventing himself over the last several decades.
To counter the points you made above, to me the question isn't whether people consider morals when spending their money. Time and time again it's been shown that most US consumers will favor a lower price vs fair-labor practices.  However, to me the question isn't about whether people will continue to buy Trump branded merchandise.  It's about whether they will pay more for that label compared to similar products.  If not, Trump loses profit margins.

AS an example, think about how perceptions of brand and corresponding prices have changed in the auto-industry.  50 years ago the "big 3" commanded  a perception that their cars were the best.  Now that reputation has been tarnished and customers will pay a premium for Hondas over Fords because they perceive them to be better cars, even if statistically there's no substantial difference between the two labels.

Time will tell.  AS others have said, I increasingly think Trump will shift his empire towards multi-media.  Maybe he'll be successful, though I have my doubts given how saturated the market already is an how hard it is for every major news outlet to bring in profits these days.

ooeei

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2016, 08:51:28 AM »
No doubt he will make a lot of money with his new media empire.  I believe is a great marketer of himself, but not a great businessman.  If passive investment would have made him far richer than this "business dealings" then he can't call himself a businessman.

The dude is a billionaire based on his businesses, I'd call that a businessman.  Yes, if he'd invested in a total stock fund he'd be richer, but nobody knew that at the time. 

If he'd lived in Japan, he would've probably beaten their stock market returns.  The US Stock market did great over his time, that doesn't mean he's bad at what he does. 

I think you're very much underestimating D. T.  He may be terrible, everyone's saying it, people everywhere tell me he's the worst, but the guy knows how to make money.  It's possible he won't make as much as before, but I'm not betting against him.  As someone said above, all publicity is good publicity. 

You're also overestimating people's morals when it comes to spending their money.  Foxconn in China was all over the news a couple years ago for working conditions so poor people jumped out of their buildings, yet Apple (their biggest customer) saw virtually no spending restrictions by their largely whole foods shopper type customer base.  Human rights are critically important to them, but come on, iphones and macs are great.

disclaimer:  I have an iphone and have shopped at whole foods.

I could be underestimating DJT; he's ccertainly shown himself adept at reinventing himself over the last several decades.
To counter the points you made above, to me the question isn't whether people consider morals when spending their money. Time and time again it's been shown that most US consumers will favor a lower price vs fair-labor practices.  However, to me the question isn't about whether people will continue to buy Trump branded merchandise.  It's about whether they will pay more for that label compared to similar products.  If not, Trump loses profit margins.

AS an example, think about how perceptions of brand and corresponding prices have changed in the auto-industry.  50 years ago the "big 3" commanded  a perception that their cars were the best.  Now that reputation has been tarnished and customers will pay a premium for Hondas over Fords because they perceive them to be better cars, even if statistically there's no substantial difference between the two labels.

Time will tell.  AS others have said, I increasingly think Trump will shift his empire towards multi-media.  Maybe he'll be successful, though I have my doubts given how saturated the market already is an how hard it is for every major news outlet to bring in profits these days.

That's a good point.  Time will tell I suppose. 

deadlymonkey

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2016, 08:53:16 AM »
I think you're very much underestimating D. T.  He may be terrible, everyone's saying it, people everywhere tell me he's the worst, but the guy knows how to make money.  It's possible he won't make as much as before, but I'm not betting against him.  As someone said above, all publicity is good publicity. 

You're also overestimating people's morals when it comes to spending their money.  Foxconn in China was all over the news a couple years ago for working conditions so poor people jumped out of their buildings, yet Apple (their biggest customer) saw virtually no spending restrictions by their largely whole foods shopper type customer base.  Human rights are critically important to them, but come on, iphones and macs are great.

disclaimer:  I have an iphone and have shopped at whole foods.

I could be underestimating DJT; he's ccertainly shown himself adept at reinventing himself over the last several decades.
To counter the points you made above, to me the question isn't whether people consider morals when spending their money. Time and time again it's been shown that most US consumers will favor a lower price vs fair-labor practices.  However, to me the question isn't about whether people will continue to buy Trump branded merchandise.  It's about whether they will pay more for that label compared to similar products.  If not, Trump loses profit margins.

AS an example, think about how perceptions of brand and corresponding prices have changed in the auto-industry.  50 years ago the "big 3" commanded  a perception that their cars were the best.  Now that reputation has been tarnished and customers will pay a premium for Hondas over Fords because they perceive them to be better cars, even if statistically there's no substantial difference between the two labels.

Time will tell.  AS others have said, I increasingly think Trump will shift his empire towards multi-media.  Maybe he'll be successful, though I have my doubts given how saturated the market already is an how hard it is for every major news outlet to bring in profits these days.

exhibit A is the new Trump Hotel in DC.  His bid required an average night stay of $850 to break even.  Currently there are beds available for under 500 a night while most other 5 star DC hotels are sold out.  That is not looking good.  High end spenders that stay at those hotels are avoiding his. 

libertarian4321

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2016, 06:11:29 PM »
Trump branded guns.

Trump branded ammunition.

'Nuff sed...

Someone should name a line of guns after Obama, he's been the best gun salesman in the history of the world, so far.

However, if Hillary gets elected, I suspect she will sell even more guns than Obama did.  NRA memberships will surge.

I was going to buy a new AR-15 later this year, but I should probably do it before the election, because if Hillary wins (at this point, I don't think even she can screw this one up) the price of guns and ammo is going to sky rocket.



nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2016, 07:38:36 PM »
Trump branded guns.

Trump branded ammunition.

'Nuff sed...

Someone should name a line of guns after Obama, he's been the best gun salesman in the history of the world, so far.

However, if Hillary gets elected, I suspect she will sell even more guns than Obama did.  NRA memberships will surge.

I was going to buy a new AR-15 later this year, but I should probably do it before the election, because if Hillary wins (at this point, I don't think even she can screw this one up) the price of guns and ammo is going to sky rocket.

Do people ever feel suckered by this?  "Obama is going to take your guns!"  Prices spike but the guns stayed.  Now "Clinton will take you guns!"  I'm wagering guns will be just as available, just maybe more expensive.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2016, 01:11:47 AM »
Trump branded guns.

Trump branded ammunition.

'Nuff sed...

Someone should name a line of guns after Obama, he's been the best gun salesman in the history of the world, so far.

However, if Hillary gets elected, I suspect she will sell even more guns than Obama did.  NRA memberships will surge.

I was going to buy a new AR-15 later this year, but I should probably do it before the election, because if Hillary wins (at this point, I don't think even she can screw this one up) the price of guns and ammo is going to sky rocket.

Do people ever feel suckered by this?  "Obama is going to take your guns!"  Prices spike but the guns stayed.  Now "Clinton will take you guns!"  I'm wagering guns will be just as available, just maybe more expensive.

Hillary and her regressive tax on guns. Making it unaffordable for low-income families to bear firearms.

On the plus side, if I didn't think that Hillary would flop on gun control and accomplish even less than the current administration, I might be inclined to purchase a few of those deadly black rifles for resale early next year.  Could be an easy profit.

nereo

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2016, 07:55:03 AM »

Do people ever feel suckered by this?  "Obama is going to take your guns!"  Prices spike but the guns stayed.  Now "Clinton will take you guns!"  I'm wagering guns will be just as available, just maybe more expensive.

Hillary and her regressive tax on guns. Making it unaffordable for low-income families to bear firearms.

On the plus side, if I didn't think that Hillary would flop on gun control and accomplish even less than the current administration, I might be inclined to purchase a few of those deadly black rifles for resale early next year.  Could be an easy profit.

Meh.  From what I've seen price (or really anything else) really isn't a barrier for gun ownership in this country.  Sure, high-end rifles cost a pretty penny, but your basic hand gun or even a rifle can be had for about what most people pay for 2-3 month of cell phone use.  Even low-income families can afford them.  It's ammo that gets expensive (over time), providing you actually practice.

deadlymonkey

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2016, 07:57:27 AM »
not to put too fine a point on it, but maybe low-income families would be better served spending their money on things more important to improving their lives than firearms.....

Kris

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2016, 08:03:18 AM »
Trump branded guns.

Trump branded ammunition.

'Nuff sed...

Someone should name a line of guns after Obama, he's been the best gun salesman in the history of the world, so far.

However, if Hillary gets elected, I suspect she will sell even more guns than Obama did.  NRA memberships will surge.

I was going to buy a new AR-15 later this year, but I should probably do it before the election, because if Hillary wins (at this point, I don't think even she can screw this one up) the price of guns and ammo is going to sky rocket.

Do people ever feel suckered by this?  "Obama is going to take your guns!"  Prices spike but the guns stayed.  Now "Clinton will take you guns!"  I'm wagering guns will be just as available, just maybe more expensive.

I was at a gun class last night, and the super-pro-NRA instructor was ranting about how all the crazy regulations to purchase a gun are overwhelming the NICS because of the huge spike in applications, as evidence that the regulations were completely absurd.

Uhhh.... No, I think that NICS is being overwhelmed because of the constant fear-mongering of the NRA that first Obama was gonna take our guns, but no wait, now Hillary is REALLY gonna take our guns!!!

Completely suckered.

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Re: Trump sacraficed untold millions, and all he got was this stupid hat.
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2016, 08:04:08 AM »


Do people ever feel suckered by this?  "Obama is going to take your guns!"  Prices spike but the guns stayed.  Now "Clinton will take you guns!"  I'm wagering guns will be just as available, just maybe more expensive.

I'm still waiting on Obama to come take our guns. I want them out of the house before the baby comes, and it's not like I can just put it on freecycle...