Trump outrage of the day

[JLee]

and when given the chance they won't compromise or participate in bipartisanship! It's almost like they are complete hypocrites acting in bad faith

Ah yes, that time when Democrats tried to establish a bipartisan commission into the Jan 6 capitol invasion and the Republicans were like "no not unless you do these things" and Democrats were like "ok sure we'll do these things" and Republicans went all surprised-pikachu and wouldn't do it anyway?

[Just Joe]

It's funny, isn't it, how the GOP ramrods through whatever the fuck they want when they hold a majority -- refuse to confirm SCOTUS for a Democrat president, and then slam through a nomination while an election is literally in progress -- but as soon as they lose the majority they start crying about "compromise" and "bipartisanship."

Worthless hypocrites.

You're exactly right. I'd feel compelled to let out my inner sailor if I wanted to full express my frustration with the conservatives these days. ;)

[nereo]

and when given the chance they won't compromise or participate in bipartisanship! It's almost like they are complete hypocrites acting in bad faith

Ah yes, that time when Democrats tried to establish a bipartisan commission into the Jan 6 capitol invasion and the Republicans were like "no not unless you do these things" and Democrats were like "ok sure we'll do these things" and Republicans went all surprised-pikachu and wouldn't do it anyway?

The GOP-led legislature spent 2 years investigating the attack on Benghazi where four US citizens died.  They had 33 congressional hearings and 4 public hearings, including 8 hours of public testimony under oath by HRC. Key among the legitimate findings was that both the State and Defense departments failed to incorporate intelligence of the threat and were slow to respond once it was underway.

Then they want to "move on" from the Jan 6th insurrection which resulted in 5 deaths for the sake of "healing" after two public hearings two months after the incident where no cabinet-level member of the executive branches testified.  Again, key findings on the attack have been that the relevant departments failed to incorporate intelligence of the threat in advance and were slow to respond once it was underway.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

I spotted some in the wild.  We are having an audit done at work, and the auditor is in the chem lab and chatting with one of the senior level people in the company.  They are ranting on and on about Trump, and how it was a witch hunt that started before he ever even took office, "they never even gave him a chance to implement his policies".  And they are going on about supporting the blue, and "all lives matter" and recounting stories in the media about protestors gathering and throwing soup cans.  "If you don't want to be shot by the cops then just listen to what the cops say, simple". 

Dead, innocent, minority victims of police brutality:



Not directly a Trump outrage, but I'm not making a new thread just for this, and I feel like I need to vent because it's so enraging to hear these idiots ranting.  It's like fox news but IRL.

Even in the reddest of red meat country, Fox news is eating itself these days - https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Project-Veritas-releases-video-of-Fox-26-reporter-16250476.php?sid=5b0232752ddf9c12eaecfd55&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=news_a&utm_campaign=HC_MorningReport

"FOX 26 adheres to the highest editorial standards of accuracy and impartiality," according to the statement. "This incident involves nothing more than a disgruntled former employee seeking publicity by promoting a false narrative produced through selective editing and misrepresentation."
...
Fortunately there was an expose by Project Veritas (Project Veritas is a right-wing group known for publishing undercover "sting" videos meant to expose what they say is bias among mainstream news media and left-leaning groups. The group is highly controversial and has been permanently suspended from Twitter for its practices. )...

My head is literally spinning from all of the conflicting BS going on in Texas as it melts down...

[OtherJen]

Texas keeps threatening to secede. Is it wrong of me to wish that they would just get on with it already? Give everyone who actually wants to live in the USA a grace period and relocation assistance if needed, and let the rest of them attempt to govern themselves. They can set up their libertarian theocracy and manage their own hurricane recoveries, border security, and utility grids. Oh wait, they're already doing the latter.

[wenchsenior]

Texas keeps threatening to secede. Is it wrong of me to wish that they would just get on with it already? Give everyone who actually wants to live in the USA a grace period and relocation assistance if needed, and let the rest of them attempt to govern themselves. They can set up their libertarian theocracy and manage their own hurricane recoveries, border security, and utility grids. Oh wait, they're already doing the latter.

My husband and I keep hoping they'll do it, even though it would disrupt our lives and force us to move before we are ready. 

[Cool Friend]

Texas keeps threatening to secede. Is it wrong of me to wish that they would just get on with it already? Give everyone who actually wants to live in the USA a grace period and relocation assistance if needed, and let the rest of them attempt to govern themselves. They can set up their libertarian theocracy and manage their own hurricane recoveries, border security, and utility grids. Oh wait, they're already doing the latter.

They've been routinely making this threat since they became a state, which, by the way, they agreed to because they couldn't hack it on their own as a sovereign republic. If they ever made good on it, they'd come crawling back like an 8-year-old who runs away from home.

[partgypsy]

I’ve seen Biden speak in person twice, once largely unscripted. He does better than I could. People underestimate how difficult speaking in public and while being recorded and scrutinized is.

To me Trump just sounds less enthusiastic than he did while President or at a candidate in 2016. But he still talks non stop for an hour +, which is also not an easy thing to do,

Biden is also compensating for a significant stutter. People always forget that he’s been battling a speech pathology for nearly 8 decades.

The hallmark of cognitive decline is always comparing one individual to their younger self.  As you said, Biden has struggled with stuttering.  He’s also infamous for going off-topic, rambling, and occasionally saying something a bit bone-headed.  His ‘speaking gaffs’ were a major topic in 2008.  Now suddenly they are “evidence of cognitive decline”. Malarkey! If anything Biden’s 2020 campaign was remarkably void of major gaffs, and he remains in good control of his stutter. He still goes off-script all the time, but that’s just who he is.

FWIW To me Trump sounds about the same as he did 10-20 years ago as well.

You can also tell though that they were limiting the number of appearances that he was making. There was a long stint of time where the only campaigning he was doing were scripted videos out of his house in Delaware. He's not completely gone mentally obviously, but he's not as sharp, and he's a bit slower.

That's not to say he's not doing well for his age or that he's unfit. I'm just saying that based on his current status, he's obviously using up his last years to be there. The presidency is draining enough for a 40 year old; a 78 year old though? I don't know any 78 year old that could keep going that hard and that long and actually perform their job in a meaningful way. So 82, yeah, even the healthiest 82 year olds I know are the ones that put a lot of energy and attention towards their health and don't work that kind of job. Even Bernie, as sharp as he is, I don't think he would've been able to do a 2024 run either.

Does anyone know any 85 year old that could navigate modern politics? It's just... too old no matter how healthy you are. Now if it's Trump v Biden again, no doubt, I'll take the old guy, but I hope Biden will step aside. Or at least run then, wink wink, step down a year or 2 in.

I'd say that Trump has also gotten noticeably worse over his presidency. What he said back in 2016 seemed pointed, well-messaged, and somewhat thought-out. I thought back in 2016, there was a good chance that Trump wasn't a buffoon, but a rather savvy politician. But his speeches now? I don't know. It's like he's such a narcissist, that 2020 broke his brain. His ego couldn't handle the lose, and it traumatized him sending him into a mental spiral.

I personally think my dad could have. He passed away unexpectedly this past year at 88, but he was still extremely sharp, was still working part-time for extra income (bookkeeping and payroll) and when on vacation walked for miles a day. His memory, able to speak on his feet, and politics and history was his hobbies. He is an outlier.  But I'm thinking most people who are campaigning for president are outliers. That said, Biden already said he was not going to seek a 2nd term. He also stated he was going to assemble a strong team, and essentially delegate. My dad felt that for example Carter sabotaged himself by not delegating and micromanaging decisions, which is just not effective at that level, rather you need to have your overall policy mapped out and have others execute it. Though he disagreed with what Reagan ultimately did during his presidency, Reagan was arguably more effective in carrying out his policy positions.

[nereo]

.

Does anyone know any 85 year old that could navigate modern politics? It's just... too old no matter how healthy you are. Now if it's Trump v Biden again, no doubt, I'll take the old guy, but I hope Biden will step aside. Or at least run then, wink wink, step down a year or 2 in.

Well if you are asking about octogenarians in high policial office, there’s a wealth to choose from.   Silvio Berlusconi’s up there as head of state of a developed nation, and the pope turns 85 later this year (the previous two popes were also in their mid 80s before they left). There’s a dozen or so octogenarians in the US Congress right now, and another dozen plus over the last hundred years.  Queen Elizabeth is in her 90s, though it would be fair to say she is more a figurehead with a much lighter schedule.

Are they outliers?  OF course.  But so are presidents in general.

[scottish]

Texas keeps threatening to secede. Is it wrong of me to wish that they would just get on with it already? Give everyone who actually wants to live in the USA a grace period and relocation assistance if needed, and let the rest of them attempt to govern themselves. They can set up their libertarian theocracy and manage their own hurricane recoveries, border security, and utility grids. Oh wait, they're already doing the latter.

They've been routinely making this threat since they became a state, which, by the way, they agreed to because they couldn't hack it on their own as a sovereign republic. If they ever made good on it, they'd come crawling back like an 8-year-old who runs away from home.

Interesting.   The province of Alberta - Canada's version of Texas, only cold with mountains and fewer guns - grumbles about seceding from Canada on a regular basis.

It would be an obvious bad move.   Their is no way to ship Alberta's product - oil and natural gas - to market without going through Canada or the United States.   Alberta's economy is poorly diversified (see oil/gas again).    The population - at a bit over 4 million - is too small to compete with the other G7 countries.    And finally the Canadian constitution has no provision for the secession of provinces.

The secession is termed "Wexit"!    A term some British Columbians regard with amusement as they view Alberta as a central province.

The Wexiteer's biggest complaint?    As the province with the highest per capita income in the country, they get smaller transfer payments back from the federal government than any other province on a per capita basis.

[OtherJen]

.

Does anyone know any 85 year old that could navigate modern politics? It's just... too old no matter how healthy you are. Now if it's Trump v Biden again, no doubt, I'll take the old guy, but I hope Biden will step aside. Or at least run then, wink wink, step down a year or 2 in.

Well if you are asking about octogenarians in high policial office, there’s a wealth to choose from.   Silvio Berlusconi’s up there as head of state of a developed nation, and the pope turns 85 later this year (the previous two popes were also in their mid 80s before they left). There’s a dozen or so octogenarians in the US Congress right now, and another dozen plus over the last hundred years.  Queen Elizabeth is in her 90s, though it would be fair to say she is more a figurehead with a much lighter schedule.

Are they outliers?  OF course.  But so are presidents in general.

I have friends who are 83 and 90. They're both sharp as tacks, certainly enough to handle politics: the 83-year-old is a local activist whose current focus is police oversight, and the 90-year-old is the treasurer on the same nonprofit board that I belong to. But I don't think either of them would want the hassle.

[Tyler durden]

.

Does anyone know any 85 year old that could navigate modern politics? It's just... too old no matter how healthy you are. Now if it's Trump v Biden again, no doubt, I'll take the old guy, but I hope Biden will step aside. Or at least run then, wink wink, step down a year or 2 in.

Well if you are asking about octogenarians in high policial office, there’s a wealth to choose from.   Silvio Berlusconi’s up there as head of state of a developed nation, and the pope turns 85 later this year (the previous two popes were also in their mid 80s before they left). There’s a dozen or so octogenarians in the US Congress right now, and another dozen plus over the last hundred years.  Queen Elizabeth is in her 90s, though it would be fair to say she is more a figurehead with a much lighter schedule.

Are they outliers?  OF course.  But so are presidents in general.

I have friends who are 83 and 90. They're both sharp as tacks, certainly enough to handle politics: the 83-year-old is a local activist whose current focus is police oversight, and the 90-year-old is the treasurer on the same nonprofit board that I belong to. But I don't think either of them would want the hassle.

Sadly age seems an obvious factor for Biden. His aides have to protect him from reporters questions.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9695039/amp/Ive-never-seen-president-protected-aides-CNNs-Jeff-Zeleny-slams-Biden-handlers.html


'I have never seen a president, covering the last four of them, who was so protected by his aides in terms of often not wanting him to answer some questions.'

[JLee]

.

Does anyone know any 85 year old that could navigate modern politics? It's just... too old no matter how healthy you are. Now if it's Trump v Biden again, no doubt, I'll take the old guy, but I hope Biden will step aside. Or at least run then, wink wink, step down a year or 2 in.

Well if you are asking about octogenarians in high policial office, there’s a wealth to choose from.   Silvio Berlusconi’s up there as head of state of a developed nation, and the pope turns 85 later this year (the previous two popes were also in their mid 80s before they left). There’s a dozen or so octogenarians in the US Congress right now, and another dozen plus over the last hundred years.  Queen Elizabeth is in her 90s, though it would be fair to say she is more a figurehead with a much lighter schedule.

Are they outliers?  OF course.  But so are presidents in general.

I have friends who are 83 and 90. They're both sharp as tacks, certainly enough to handle politics: the 83-year-old is a local activist whose current focus is police oversight, and the 90-year-old is the treasurer on the same nonprofit board that I belong to. But I don't think either of them would want the hassle.

Sadly age seems an obvious factor for Biden. His aides have to protect him from reporters questions.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9695039/amp/Ive-never-seen-president-protected-aides-CNNs-Jeff-Zeleny-slams-Biden-handlers.html


'I have never seen a president, covering the last four of them, who was so protected by his aides in terms of often not wanting him to answer some questions.'

Is he also including the response “that’s a nasty question” as not wanting to answer questions, or exclusively aide behavior?

[nereo]

Sadly age seems an obvious factor for Biden. His aides have to protect him from reporters questions.

What some see as protection and old age, others (including myself) see as discipline.  I think it’s fair to say that the Trump presidency was defined by Trump’s frequent off-scripted remarks. Even when holding a press-conference to discuss one thing Trump would often diverge into a completely different topic, sometimes changing the position of the executive branch in the process.  It wasn’t uncommon for there to be opposing statements from Trump, his chief of staff and the VP all in the same week.

Biden is the antithesis of that - and I believe this is a very deliberate approach. He’s acting like the traditional head of state, which means crafting a position behind closed doors, staying on message in front of cameras and not taking the bait with reporters and deferring questions to the people who’s job it is to answer such things (WH Press Sec, Chief of Staff, etc). He’s learned (partially through decades of his own infamous gaffs) that often there’s little to be gained and a great deal of risk to unscripted responses on camera. One could even say Trump suffered greatly because he so often said things off-the-cuff which were not received positively - had Trump acted more ‘Presidential’(in the traditional viewpoint) he’d probably have outraged fewer moderates and he’d most likely still be President.

That also explains Biden’s entire campaign. Where some saw an old man “hiding in his basement” (note: that was Trump’s attack line), I saw one of the most disciplined campaigns in recent memory.  Whereas Trump had HRC scrambling around to respond to every wackadoodle thing he said and thereby allowed him to drive the narrative, Biden resisted that urge. He was the only candidate who didn’t take the bait (including all of Trumps GOP challengers). As a result Trump’s attacks fell rather flat, Biden was able to frame the campaign around Trump’s Covid response, and Biden got the most total votes from any president ever.

[Tyler durden]

Sadly age seems an obvious factor for Biden. His aides have to protect him from reporters questions.

What some see as protection and old age, others (including myself) see as discipline.  I think it’s fair to say that the Trump presidency was defined by Trump’s frequent off-scripted remarks. Even when holding a press-conference to discuss one thing Trump would often diverge into a completely different topic, sometimes changing the position of the executive branch in the process.  It wasn’t uncommon for there to be opposing statements from Trump, his chief of staff and the VP all in the same week.

Biden is the antithesis of that - and I believe this is a very deliberate approach. He’s acting like the traditional head of state, which means crafting a position behind closed doors, staying on message in front of cameras and not taking the bait with reporters and deferring questions to the people who’s job it is to answer such things (WH Press Sec, Chief of Staff, etc). He’s learned (partially through decades of his own infamous gaffs) that often there’s little to be gained and a great deal of risk to unscripted responses on camera. One could even say Trump suffered greatly because he so often said things off-the-cuff which were not received positively - had Trump acted more ‘Presidential’(in the traditional viewpoint) he’d probably have outraged fewer moderates and he’d most likely still be President.

That also explains Biden’s entire campaign. Where some saw an old man “hiding in his basement” (note: that was Trump’s attack line), I saw one of the most disciplined campaigns in recent memory.  Whereas Trump had HRC scrambling around to respond to every wackadoodle thing he said and thereby allowed him to drive the narrative, Biden resisted that urge. He was the only candidate who didn’t take the bait (including all of Trumps GOP challengers). As a result Trump’s attacks fell rather flat, Biden was able to frame the campaign around Trump’s Covid response, and Biden got the most total votes from any president ever.

It definitely fits a pattern for him that’s true. Same reason I suppose he doesn’t do press conferences. He’s done just the one I think. Your view is a charitable one and I hope your right. Listening to him talk sounds like listening to someone who just got kicked in the head by a horse. Regardless of my politics having a president of sound mind is preferable

Certainly true about trump. He stepped in shit almost every time he spoke but his talking with reporters felt normal. Same with Obama talking to reporters. And  Listening to Obama explain his positions or thoughts felt comfortable and reassuring. I don’t remember far back as Bush.

I’ve diverted to much off topic from what this thread is about. Continue the 2 minutes of hate Oceania.

[former player]

Sadly age seems an obvious factor for Biden. His aides have to protect him from reporters questions.

What some see as protection and old age, others (including myself) see as discipline.  I think it’s fair to say that the Trump presidency was defined by Trump’s frequent off-scripted remarks. Even when holding a press-conference to discuss one thing Trump would often diverge into a completely different topic, sometimes changing the position of the executive branch in the process.  It wasn’t uncommon for there to be opposing statements from Trump, his chief of staff and the VP all in the same week.

Biden is the antithesis of that - and I believe this is a very deliberate approach. He’s acting like the traditional head of state, which means crafting a position behind closed doors, staying on message in front of cameras and not taking the bait with reporters and deferring questions to the people who’s job it is to answer such things (WH Press Sec, Chief of Staff, etc). He’s learned (partially through decades of his own infamous gaffs) that often there’s little to be gained and a great deal of risk to unscripted responses on camera. One could even say Trump suffered greatly because he so often said things off-the-cuff which were not received positively - had Trump acted more ‘Presidential’(in the traditional viewpoint) he’d probably have outraged fewer moderates and he’d most likely still be President.

That also explains Biden’s entire campaign. Where some saw an old man “hiding in his basement” (note: that was Trump’s attack line), I saw one of the most disciplined campaigns in recent memory.  Whereas Trump had HRC scrambling around to respond to every wackadoodle thing he said and thereby allowed him to drive the narrative, Biden resisted that urge. He was the only candidate who didn’t take the bait (including all of Trumps GOP challengers). As a result Trump’s attacks fell rather flat, Biden was able to frame the campaign around Trump’s Covid response, and Biden got the most total votes from any president ever.

It definitely fits a pattern for him that’s true. Same reason I suppose he doesn’t do press conferences. He’s done just the one I think. Your view is a charitable one and I hope your right. Listening to him talk sounds like listening to someone who just got kicked in the head by a horse. Regardless of my politics having a president of sound mind is preferable

Certainly true about trump. He stepped in shit almost every time he spoke but his talking with reporters felt normal. Same with Obama talking to reporters. And  Listening to Obama explain his positions or thoughts felt comfortable and reassuring. I don’t remember far back as Bush.

I’ve diverted to much off topic from what this thread is about. Continue the 2 minutes of hate Oceania.

I think you should start judging Biden by what he does, not by how you think he looks and sounds.  If his actions in government are lawful, logical and aimed at fufilling his agenda then my presumption would be that he is of sound mind and running a government that is of sound mind.

[JLee]

Sadly age seems an obvious factor for Biden. His aides have to protect him from reporters questions.

What some see as protection and old age, others (including myself) see as discipline.  I think it’s fair to say that the Trump presidency was defined by Trump’s frequent off-scripted remarks. Even when holding a press-conference to discuss one thing Trump would often diverge into a completely different topic, sometimes changing the position of the executive branch in the process.  It wasn’t uncommon for there to be opposing statements from Trump, his chief of staff and the VP all in the same week.

Biden is the antithesis of that - and I believe this is a very deliberate approach. He’s acting like the traditional head of state, which means crafting a position behind closed doors, staying on message in front of cameras and not taking the bait with reporters and deferring questions to the people who’s job it is to answer such things (WH Press Sec, Chief of Staff, etc). He’s learned (partially through decades of his own infamous gaffs) that often there’s little to be gained and a great deal of risk to unscripted responses on camera. One could even say Trump suffered greatly because he so often said things off-the-cuff which were not received positively - had Trump acted more ‘Presidential’(in the traditional viewpoint) he’d probably have outraged fewer moderates and he’d most likely still be President.

That also explains Biden’s entire campaign. Where some saw an old man “hiding in his basement” (note: that was Trump’s attack line), I saw one of the most disciplined campaigns in recent memory.  Whereas Trump had HRC scrambling around to respond to every wackadoodle thing he said and thereby allowed him to drive the narrative, Biden resisted that urge. He was the only candidate who didn’t take the bait (including all of Trumps GOP challengers). As a result Trump’s attacks fell rather flat, Biden was able to frame the campaign around Trump’s Covid response, and Biden got the most total votes from any president ever.

It definitely fits a pattern for him that’s true. Same reason I suppose he doesn’t do press conferences. He’s done just the one I think. Your view is a charitable one and I hope your right. Listening to him talk sounds like listening to someone who just got kicked in the head by a horse. Regardless of my politics having a president of sound mind is preferable

Certainly true about trump. He stepped in shit almost every time he spoke but his talking with reporters felt normal. Same with Obama talking to reporters. And  Listening to Obama explain his positions or thoughts felt comfortable and reassuring. I don’t remember far back as Bush.

I’ve diverted to much off topic from what this thread is about. Continue the 2 minutes of hate Oceania.

I don't think that's an accurate assessment.

[OtherJen]

Sadly age seems an obvious factor for Biden. His aides have to protect him from reporters questions.

What some see as protection and old age, others (including myself) see as discipline.  I think it’s fair to say that the Trump presidency was defined by Trump’s frequent off-scripted remarks. Even when holding a press-conference to discuss one thing Trump would often diverge into a completely different topic, sometimes changing the position of the executive branch in the process.  It wasn’t uncommon for there to be opposing statements from Trump, his chief of staff and the VP all in the same week.

Biden is the antithesis of that - and I believe this is a very deliberate approach. He’s acting like the traditional head of state, which means crafting a position behind closed doors, staying on message in front of cameras and not taking the bait with reporters and deferring questions to the people who’s job it is to answer such things (WH Press Sec, Chief of Staff, etc). He’s learned (partially through decades of his own infamous gaffs) that often there’s little to be gained and a great deal of risk to unscripted responses on camera. One could even say Trump suffered greatly because he so often said things off-the-cuff which were not received positively - had Trump acted more ‘Presidential’(in the traditional viewpoint) he’d probably have outraged fewer moderates and he’d most likely still be President.

That also explains Biden’s entire campaign. Where some saw an old man “hiding in his basement” (note: that was Trump’s attack line), I saw one of the most disciplined campaigns in recent memory.  Whereas Trump had HRC scrambling around to respond to every wackadoodle thing he said and thereby allowed him to drive the narrative, Biden resisted that urge. He was the only candidate who didn’t take the bait (including all of Trumps GOP challengers). As a result Trump’s attacks fell rather flat, Biden was able to frame the campaign around Trump’s Covid response, and Biden got the most total votes from any president ever.

It definitely fits a pattern for him that’s true. Same reason I suppose he doesn’t do press conferences. He’s done just the one I think. Your view is a charitable one and I hope your right. Listening to him talk sounds like listening to someone who just got kicked in the head by a horse. Regardless of my politics having a president of sound mind is preferable

Certainly true about trump. He stepped in shit almost every time he spoke but his talking with reporters felt normal. Same with Obama talking to reporters. And  Listening to Obama explain his positions or thoughts felt comfortable and reassuring. I don’t remember far back as Bush.

I’ve diverted to much off topic from what this thread is about. Continue the 2 minutes of hate Oceania.

I don't think that's an accurate assessment.

Thank you for reminding us just how awful Trump was in front of and to the press. I'd gotten very used to not seeing/hearing his incredibly disrespectful and entirely misinformed exchanges with reporters.

[GuitarStv]

.

Does anyone know any 85 year old that could navigate modern politics? It's just... too old no matter how healthy you are. Now if it's Trump v Biden again, no doubt, I'll take the old guy, but I hope Biden will step aside. Or at least run then, wink wink, step down a year or 2 in.

Well if you are asking about octogenarians in high policial office, there’s a wealth to choose from.   Silvio Berlusconi’s up there as head of state of a developed nation, and the pope turns 85 later this year (the previous two popes were also in their mid 80s before they left). There’s a dozen or so octogenarians in the US Congress right now, and another dozen plus over the last hundred years.  Queen Elizabeth is in her 90s, though it would be fair to say she is more a figurehead with a much lighter schedule.

Are they outliers?  OF course.  But so are presidents in general.

Not sure I'd pick Berlusconi as an example of a competent head of state.  The guy couldn't be more corrupt.

[Tyler durden]

Sadly age seems an obvious factor for Biden. His aides have to protect him from reporters questions.

What some see as protection and old age, others (including myself) see as discipline.  I think it’s fair to say that the Trump presidency was defined by Trump’s frequent off-scripted remarks. Even when holding a press-conference to discuss one thing Trump would often diverge into a completely different topic, sometimes changing the position of the executive branch in the process.  It wasn’t uncommon for there to be opposing statements from Trump, his chief of staff and the VP all in the same week.

Biden is the antithesis of that - and I believe this is a very deliberate approach. He’s acting like the traditional head of state, which means crafting a position behind closed doors, staying on message in front of cameras and not taking the bait with reporters and deferring questions to the people who’s job it is to answer such things (WH Press Sec, Chief of Staff, etc). He’s learned (partially through decades of his own infamous gaffs) that often there’s little to be gained and a great deal of risk to unscripted responses on camera. One could even say Trump suffered greatly because he so often said things off-the-cuff which were not received positively - had Trump acted more ‘Presidential’(in the traditional viewpoint) he’d probably have outraged fewer moderates and he’d most likely still be President.

That also explains Biden’s entire campaign. Where some saw an old man “hiding in his basement” (note: that was Trump’s attack line), I saw one of the most disciplined campaigns in recent memory.  Whereas Trump had HRC scrambling around to respond to every wackadoodle thing he said and thereby allowed him to drive the narrative, Biden resisted that urge. He was the only candidate who didn’t take the bait (including all of Trumps GOP challengers). As a result Trump’s attacks fell rather flat, Biden was able to frame the campaign around Trump’s Covid response, and Biden got the most total votes from any president ever.

It definitely fits a pattern for him that’s true. Same reason I suppose he doesn’t do press conferences. He’s done just the one I think. Your view is a charitable one and I hope your right. Listening to him talk sounds like listening to someone who just got kicked in the head by a horse. Regardless of my politics having a president of sound mind is preferable

Certainly true about trump. He stepped in shit almost every time he spoke but his talking with reporters felt normal. Same with Obama talking to reporters. And  Listening to Obama explain his positions or thoughts felt comfortable and reassuring. I don’t remember far back as Bush.

I’ve diverted to much off topic from what this thread is about. Continue the 2 minutes of hate Oceania.

I don't think that's an accurate assessment.

I see shades of the former guy in this. when Biden does finally talk to a reporter and gets a question other than what ice cream flavor did you choose,

https://nypost.com/2021/05/27/press-slammed-for-asking-biden-questions-about-his-ice-cream/

he flies off the handle and tells her shes in the wrong business. Sounds misogynistic to me.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3096594/biden-snaps-cnn-kaitlan-collins-putin/

I'll keep my Biden criticism for that other thread not this one. Resume 2 minutes of hate.

[JLee]

Sadly age seems an obvious factor for Biden. His aides have to protect him from reporters questions.

What some see as protection and old age, others (including myself) see as discipline.  I think it’s fair to say that the Trump presidency was defined by Trump’s frequent off-scripted remarks. Even when holding a press-conference to discuss one thing Trump would often diverge into a completely different topic, sometimes changing the position of the executive branch in the process.  It wasn’t uncommon for there to be opposing statements from Trump, his chief of staff and the VP all in the same week.

Biden is the antithesis of that - and I believe this is a very deliberate approach. He’s acting like the traditional head of state, which means crafting a position behind closed doors, staying on message in front of cameras and not taking the bait with reporters and deferring questions to the people who’s job it is to answer such things (WH Press Sec, Chief of Staff, etc). He’s learned (partially through decades of his own infamous gaffs) that often there’s little to be gained and a great deal of risk to unscripted responses on camera. One could even say Trump suffered greatly because he so often said things off-the-cuff which were not received positively - had Trump acted more ‘Presidential’(in the traditional viewpoint) he’d probably have outraged fewer moderates and he’d most likely still be President.

That also explains Biden’s entire campaign. Where some saw an old man “hiding in his basement” (note: that was Trump’s attack line), I saw one of the most disciplined campaigns in recent memory.  Whereas Trump had HRC scrambling around to respond to every wackadoodle thing he said and thereby allowed him to drive the narrative, Biden resisted that urge. He was the only candidate who didn’t take the bait (including all of Trumps GOP challengers). As a result Trump’s attacks fell rather flat, Biden was able to frame the campaign around Trump’s Covid response, and Biden got the most total votes from any president ever.

It definitely fits a pattern for him that’s true. Same reason I suppose he doesn’t do press conferences. He’s done just the one I think. Your view is a charitable one and I hope your right. Listening to him talk sounds like listening to someone who just got kicked in the head by a horse. Regardless of my politics having a president of sound mind is preferable

Certainly true about trump. He stepped in shit almost every time he spoke but his talking with reporters felt normal. Same with Obama talking to reporters. And  Listening to Obama explain his positions or thoughts felt comfortable and reassuring. I don’t remember far back as Bush.

I’ve diverted to much off topic from what this thread is about. Continue the 2 minutes of hate Oceania.

I don't think that's an accurate assessment.

I see shades of the former guy in this. when Biden does finally talk to a reporter and gets a question other than what ice cream flavor did you choose,

https://nypost.com/2021/05/27/press-slammed-for-asking-biden-questions-about-his-ice-cream/

he flies off the handle and tells her shes in the wrong business. Sounds misogynistic to me.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3096594/biden-snaps-cnn-kaitlan-collins-putin/

I'll keep my Biden criticism for that other thread not this one. Resume 2 minutes of hate.

Yeah, I see shades of the ocean in a pothole puddle too.

[Just Joe]

Texas keeps threatening to secede. Is it wrong of me to wish that they would just get on with it already? Give everyone who actually wants to live in the USA a grace period and relocation assistance if needed, and let the rest of them attempt to govern themselves. They can set up their libertarian theocracy and manage their own hurricane recoveries, border security, and utility grids. Oh wait, they're already doing the latter.

They've been routinely making this threat since they became a state, which, by the way, they agreed to because they couldn't hack it on their own as a sovereign republic. If they ever made good on it, they'd come crawling back like an 8-year-old who runs away from home.

Listened to this last night in the garage while I worked:

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/16/1006907140/forget-the-alamo-texas-history-bryan-burrough

[JLee]

Sadly age seems an obvious factor for Biden. His aides have to protect him from reporters questions.

What some see as protection and old age, others (including myself) see as discipline.  I think it’s fair to say that the Trump presidency was defined by Trump’s frequent off-scripted remarks. Even when holding a press-conference to discuss one thing Trump would often diverge into a completely different topic, sometimes changing the position of the executive branch in the process.  It wasn’t uncommon for there to be opposing statements from Trump, his chief of staff and the VP all in the same week.

Biden is the antithesis of that - and I believe this is a very deliberate approach. He’s acting like the traditional head of state, which means crafting a position behind closed doors, staying on message in front of cameras and not taking the bait with reporters and deferring questions to the people who’s job it is to answer such things (WH Press Sec, Chief of Staff, etc). He’s learned (partially through decades of his own infamous gaffs) that often there’s little to be gained and a great deal of risk to unscripted responses on camera. One could even say Trump suffered greatly because he so often said things off-the-cuff which were not received positively - had Trump acted more ‘Presidential’(in the traditional viewpoint) he’d probably have outraged fewer moderates and he’d most likely still be President.

That also explains Biden’s entire campaign. Where some saw an old man “hiding in his basement” (note: that was Trump’s attack line), I saw one of the most disciplined campaigns in recent memory.  Whereas Trump had HRC scrambling around to respond to every wackadoodle thing he said and thereby allowed him to drive the narrative, Biden resisted that urge. He was the only candidate who didn’t take the bait (including all of Trumps GOP challengers). As a result Trump’s attacks fell rather flat, Biden was able to frame the campaign around Trump’s Covid response, and Biden got the most total votes from any president ever.

It definitely fits a pattern for him that’s true. Same reason I suppose he doesn’t do press conferences. He’s done just the one I think. Your view is a charitable one and I hope your right. Listening to him talk sounds like listening to someone who just got kicked in the head by a horse. Regardless of my politics having a president of sound mind is preferable

Certainly true about trump. He stepped in shit almost every time he spoke but his talking with reporters felt normal. Same with Obama talking to reporters. And  Listening to Obama explain his positions or thoughts felt comfortable and reassuring. I don’t remember far back as Bush.

I’ve diverted to much off topic from what this thread is about. Continue the 2 minutes of hate Oceania.

I don't think that's an accurate assessment.

I see shades of the former guy in this. when Biden does finally talk to a reporter and gets a question other than what ice cream flavor did you choose,

https://nypost.com/2021/05/27/press-slammed-for-asking-biden-questions-about-his-ice-cream/

he flies off the handle and tells her shes in the wrong business. Sounds misogynistic to me.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3096594/biden-snaps-cnn-kaitlan-collins-putin/

I'll keep my Biden criticism for that other thread not this one. Resume 2 minutes of hate.

Definitely different.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/17/biden-putin-cnn-kaitlan-collins/

Soon after the exchange, Biden issued a mea culpa for his tone.

“I owe my last questioner an apology,” the president told reporters on the tarmac as he readied to board Air Force One on Wednesday afternoon. “I shouldn’t have been such a wise guy with the last answer I gave.”

[Glenstache]

NYPost, such a bastion of journalism!

[OzzieandHarriet]

Anyone who says Biden is mentally impaired is watching too much Fox.

[Glenstache]

This seems relevant to Trump's "Big Lie". Giuliani lost his NY law license because he knowingly lied about it being true.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/nyregion/giuliani-law-license-suspended-trump.html

A New York appellate court suspended Rudolph W. Giuliani’s law license on Thursday after a disciplinary panel found that he made “demonstrably false and misleading” statements about the 2020 election as Donald J. Trump’s personal attorney.

[talltexan]

Very few things give me more joy than seeing this discussion topic not appear in my "replies" listing on the MMM forum for days at a time. I did break with my usual discipline to click on and read this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/24/nightmare-scenario-book-excerpt/

[nereo]

Very few things give me more joy than seeing this discussion topic not appear in my "replies" listing on the MMM forum for days at a time. I did break with my usual discipline to click on and read this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/24/nightmare-scenario-book-excerpt/

Apparently his illness from Covid was far more severe than was revealed at the time (including publicly by Trump himself, who said contracting the virus was “a blessing from God” and told people “Don’t be afraid of it” and tweeted that he was “feeling good” when he was pretty much incapacitated.)

Another missed opportunity, particularly in light of his electoral defeat.  Could have saved counteless lives.

[brandon1827]

But then he would've "looked weak" to his base and made Fauci correct...we can't have that now can we

[GuitarStv]

If you find facts getting in the way of your positions, a reasonable person is forced to reconsider his/her positions.  But there's always the reality denial option.

[talltexan]

Why are nobodies like us talking about re-evaluating our positions when one bad fact suddenly arises, when there is a whole political movement--one that has captured the Courts as well as the legislatures of more than two dozen states--that has built itself around a man who is absolutely unbending to any criticism opposition from reality?

I cannot help but feel like we may have missed an opportunity.

[GuitarStv]

Why are nobodies like us talking about re-evaluating our positions when one bad fact suddenly arises, when there is a whole political movement--one that has captured the Courts as well as the legislatures of more than two dozen states--that has built itself around a man who is absolutely unbending to any criticism opposition from reality?

I cannot help but feel like we may have missed an opportunity.

Fighting reality is like holding back the sea by sticking your hand in the hole in the dyke.  You can get away with it for a while, but inevitably you will be overwhelmed by the unstoppable weight of the truth.

[bacchi]

Why are nobodies like us talking about re-evaluating our positions when one bad fact suddenly arises, when there is a whole political movement--one that has captured the Courts as well as the legislatures of more than two dozen states--that has built itself around a man who is absolutely unbending to any criticism opposition from reality?

I cannot help but feel like we may have missed an opportunity.

Fighting reality is like holding back the sea by sticking your hand in the hole in the dyke.  You can get away with it for a while, but inevitably you will be overwhelmed by the unstoppable weight of the truth.

Cue the Delta variant and the alt-right no-vaxxers.

[sui generis]

Why are nobodies like us talking about re-evaluating our positions when one bad fact suddenly arises, when there is a whole political movement--one that has captured the Courts as well as the legislatures of more than two dozen states--that has built itself around a man who is absolutely unbending to any criticism opposition from reality?

I cannot help but feel like we may have missed an opportunity.

Fighting reality is like holding back the sea by sticking your hand in the hole in the dyke.  You can get away with it for a while, but inevitably you will be overwhelmed by the unstoppable weight of the truth.

Honestly, I think the jury's still out on that. It makes for a nice proverb, but unless you are taking about really simple reality (like gravity or that the world is round), I do think you can make your own reality. It's the history of human experience to do so. You say the Tutsi are smarter then the Hutu in order to drive (or expand) a wedge, and it becomes a reality. You say the American Civil War was the War of Northern Aggression and you get the Lost Cause ideology, which is gospel truth to many over 150 years later. 

I think as long as you are able to keep up with the bad facts as they come, you may be able to outrun reality possibly indefinitely. And I think while it is distasteful and intellectually dishonest, we have to grapple with how effective it is. How well it works with human psychology. And find a way to use it back on them. Bringing a knife to gunfight doesn't seem to be working well. Even if it works in the end, will it have been worth it to (to torture the analogy) fight the battle that way and have all sides bleed out and suffer so grievously?

I'm with talltexan. We need to at least take a look at the opportunities we're missing, and the damage it's causing in doing so

[talltexan]

So much of reality is untestable or colored by meaning that I'm in the midst of my own personal epistemic crisis, frankly.

In a few years, I have little doubt that Trump will be seen as a figure comparable to Reagan by the conservatives because Roe will be gone. He doesn't need to impact the future elections at all for this, and I hope he won't.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Why are nobodies like us talking about re-evaluating our positions when one bad fact suddenly arises, when there is a whole political movement--one that has captured the Courts as well as the legislatures of more than two dozen states--that has built itself around a man who is absolutely unbending to any criticism opposition from reality?

I cannot help but feel like we may have missed an opportunity.

Fighting reality is like holding back the sea by sticking your hand in the hole in the dyke.  You can get away with it for a while, but inevitably you will be overwhelmed by the unstoppable weight of the truth.

Honestly, I think the jury's still out on that. It makes for a nice proverb, but unless you are taking about really simple reality (like gravity or that the world is round), I do think you can make your own reality. It's the history of human experience to do so. You say the Tutsi are smarter then the Hutu in order to drive (or expand) a wedge, and it becomes a reality. You say the American Civil War was the War of Northern Aggression and you get the Lost Cause ideology, which is gospel truth to many over 150 years later. 

I think as long as you are able to keep up with the bad facts as they come, you may be able to outrun reality possibly indefinitely. And I think while it is distasteful and intellectually dishonest, we have to grapple with how effective it is. How well it works with human psychology. And find a way to use it back on them. Bringing a knife to gunfight doesn't seem to be working well. Even if it works in the end, will it have been worth it to (to torture the analogy) fight the battle that way and have all sides bleed out and suffer so grievously?

I'm with talltexan. We need to at least take a look at the opportunities we're missing, and the damage it's causing in doing so

But that is one (of many) major reasons why I'll never muster much respect for Trump.  He may be impressive in his ability to hold a false narrative and bend reality to his liking, but he seems to have no prowess for when to expend the effort and when to confuse his opponents with maybe 'losing one' now and again.  Trump could really unbalance his opponents if he could master the art of winning easy points now and again - for example, actually looking humble once in a while.  Instead, he is 100% predictably narcissist and it opens him up to ridicule and being played.

Even his supporters are real people that have had to deal with real covid and the reality that he is actually not President right now, despite the lies constantly spewing from his mouth.  Sadly, this is all working out great for folks like Ted Cruz who can actually handle the superficial dance between lies and looking like he cares when necessary...  Trump will likely be too damaged by 2024 to mount a successful primary, but there are some scary replacements that are perfecting his playbook.

[Glenstache]

Why are nobodies like us talking about re-evaluating our positions when one bad fact suddenly arises, when there is a whole political movement--one that has captured the Courts as well as the legislatures of more than two dozen states--that has built itself around a man who is absolutely unbending to any criticism opposition from reality?

I cannot help but feel like we may have missed an opportunity.

Fighting reality is like holding back the sea by sticking your hand in the hole in the dyke.  You can get away with it for a while, but inevitably you will be overwhelmed by the unstoppable weight of the truth.

Kim Jong Un and Vladimir Putin would politely care to disagree.

He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

[nereo]

This seems relevant to Trump's "Big Lie". Giuliani lost his NY law license because he knowingly lied about it being true.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/nyregion/giuliani-law-license-suspended-trump.html

A New York appellate court suspended Rudolph W. Giuliani’s law license on Thursday after a disciplinary panel found that he made “demonstrably false and misleading” statements about the 2020 election as Donald J. Trump’s personal attorney.

I don’t think we’ve given this extraordinary outcome an appropriate amount of contemplation.

Rudy Giuliani was - not too long ago - thetop federal prosecutor in one of the biggest and most important cities - has been suspended from practicing law by the very city he formerly served.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

The fact that [nope] would have even made the claims in the first place makes me sure that his past legal career must have been a facade.

No lawyer with integrity would act as a mouthpiece for his client the way [nope] did.

The first thing we are taught in law school is that we are not mouthpieces for the client. It is unprofessional to advance your client's interests in any way outside of Court or negotiations. In old school jurisdictions like mine, even vouching for your client or asserting that your client's case is a sound one on the steps of Court is looked upon with distaste.

We are not there to advocate for our client except in Court. The client otherwise takes care of himself or herself. [nope] turned himself from a litigator to an ad-man, and I'm delighted that he's paying the price.

[MOD NOTE: It seems pretty easy to avoid this sort of insult, whatever you think you meant.]

[nereo]

The fact that Rude-as-Joo would have even made the claims in the first place makes me sure that his past legal career must have been a facade.

No lawyer with integrity would act as a mouthpiece for his client the way Rude-as-Joo did.

The first thing we are taught in law school is that we are not mouthpieces for the client. It is unprofessional to advance your client's interests in any way outside of Court or negotiations. In old school jurisdictions like mine, even vouching for your client or asserting that your client's case is a sound one on the steps of Court is looked upon with distaste.

We are not there to advocate for our client except in Court. The client otherwise takes care of himself or herself. Rude-as-Joo turned himself from a litigator to an ad-man, and I'm delighted that he's paying the price.

Can we please refrain from childish name-calling that borders on anti-Semitic?  Thanks.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

Considering that Giuliani is Catholic, and the moniker is clearly a pun on his name, I think your post is downright silly. Don't insinuate that others are being anti-Semitic on a whim, and pull your flipping head into line, friendo.

[Dollar Slice]

Considering that Giuliani is Catholic, and the moniker is clearly a pun on his name, I think your post is downright silly. Don't insinuate that others are being anti-Semitic on a whim, and pull your flipping head into line, friendo.

I have no idea what "Rude-as-Joo" is supposed to mean if it's not a reference to "Jew," either, so... ? Maybe you're not as clever as you think you are. What is it supposed to mean? 

[OtherJen]

Considering that Giuliani is Catholic, and the moniker is clearly a pun on his name, I think your post is downright silly. Don't insinuate that others are being anti-Semitic on a whim, and pull your flipping head into line, friendo.

No, it doesn’t look like you’re calling him Jewish. It looks like you’re calling him as rude as “Joo.” Who or what is “Joo”? I know what it sounds like when I read it out loud, and it certainly sounds like an anti-Semitic slur.

[jambongris]

Considering that Giuliani is Catholic, and the moniker is clearly a pun on his name, I think your post is downright silly. Don't insinuate that others are being anti-Semitic on a whim, and pull your flipping head into line, friendo.

No, it doesn’t look like you’re calling him Jewish. It looks like you’re calling him as rude as “Joo.” Who or what is “Joo”? I know what it sounds like when I read it out loud, and it certainly sounds like an anti-Semitic slur.

A Google search seems to just bring up Eminem lyrics.

In third grade all I used to do
Was sniff glue through a tube and play rubix cube
Seventeen years later I'm as rude as Joo
Schemein' on the first chick with the hugest boobs

Still not sure what Bloop’s use of the term was meant to imply or what it means.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

I mean it as a shortening of his name from Rudolph to "Rude as", as in very rude. Joo is my way of spelling his last name in a shortened way, which is what Australians do a lot.

[MOD NOTE: The Internet is bigger than one country, I suppose.  So I suggest you stop using that phrase elsewhere.]

[Kris]

I mean it as a shortening of his name from Rudolph to "Rude as", as in very rude. Joo is my way of spelling his last name in a shortened way, which is what Australians do a lot.

I mean...it doesn’t really make any sense, though. At least to me, an American, “rude as” is a comparison. And if you’re saying “Joo” is just a shortening of his name (wouldn’t it be “Giu”?) then, the nickname means “rude as... himself”?

[jambongris]

I mean it as a shortening of his name from Rudolph to "Rude as", as in very rude. Joo is my way of spelling his last name in a shortened way, which is what Australians do a lot.

I mean...it doesn’t really make any sense, though. At least to me, an American, “rude as” is a comparison. And if you’re saying “Joo” is just a shortening of his name (wouldn’t it be “Giu”?) then, the nickname means “rude as... himself”?

The best jokes are the ones that you need to explain.

[Kris]

Considering that Giuliani is Catholic, and the moniker is clearly a pun on his name, I think your post is downright silly. Don't insinuate that others are being anti-Semitic on a whim, and pull your flipping head into line, friendo.

No, it doesn’t look like you’re calling him Jewish. It looks like you’re calling him as rude as “Joo.” Who or what is “Joo”? I know what it sounds like when I read it out loud, and it certainly sounds like an anti-Semitic slur.

A Google search seems to just bring up Eminem lyrics.

In third grade all I used to do
Was sniff glue through a tube and play rubix cube
Seventeen years later I'm as rude as Joo
Schemein' on the first chick with the hugest boobs

Still not sure what Bloop’s use of the term was meant to imply or what it means.

Urban Dictionary is giving me a lot of entries for a reference to a South Park reference to Jew:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=j-o-o

[OtherJen]

Considering that Giuliani is Catholic, and the moniker is clearly a pun on his name, I think your post is downright silly. Don't insinuate that others are being anti-Semitic on a whim, and pull your flipping head into line, friendo.

No, it doesn’t look like you’re calling him Jewish. It looks like you’re calling him as rude as “Joo.” Who or what is “Joo”? I know what it sounds like when I read it out loud, and it certainly sounds like an anti-Semitic slur.

A Google search seems to just bring up Eminem lyrics.

In third grade all I used to do
Was sniff glue through a tube and play rubix cube
Seventeen years later I'm as rude as Joo
Schemein' on the first chick with the hugest boobs

Still not sure what Bloop’s use of the term was meant to imply or what it means.

Urban Dictionary is giving me a lot of entries for a reference to a South Park reference to Jew:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=j-o-o

Google gives me entries for a South Korean singer and several other Korean celebrities/personalities.

[OtherJen]

I mean it as a shortening of his name from Rudolph to "Rude as", as in very rude. Joo is my way of spelling his last name in a shortened way, which is what Australians do a lot.

I mean...it doesn’t really make any sense, though. At least to me, an American, “rude as” is a comparison. And if you’re saying “Joo” is just a shortening of his name (wouldn’t it be “Giu”?) then, the nickname means “rude as... himself”?

The best jokes are the ones that you need to explain.

Right? It wasn't funny to start...now it's increasingly confusing.