Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 101007 times)

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1000 on: February 13, 2020, 10:47:05 AM »
Sure does...

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1001 on: February 13, 2020, 11:00:13 AM »
Wouldn't this "cult" feel be a biproduct of the polarization of society, though? Or am I over-thinking it?

Norioch

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1002 on: February 13, 2020, 11:42:48 AM »
Calling this a result of "polarization" is meant to subtly suggest that both sides are equally to blame. They aren't. You don't need to immediately assume that Democrats must somehow be equally to blame whenever Republicans do terrible things. When Republicans do terrible things, blame Republicans.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1003 on: February 13, 2020, 12:00:25 PM »
Calling this a result of "polarization" is meant to subtly suggest that both sides are equally to blame. They aren't. You don't need to immediately assume that Democrats must somehow be equally to blame whenever Republicans do terrible things. When Republicans do terrible things, blame Republicans.
+1.
What strikes me is how little room there is for disagreement among the current GOP, while the Democrats are often referred to as “divided” or in “disarray” or even “at war amongst one another”

For all practical purposes the GOP is the party of Trump, and its news when even one member of the party disagrees.  Democrats have yet to decide whether to be progressive or moderates, socialists or consensus-builders.  There’s no “cult-iike” rhetoric among Dems because there is no supreme leader and no agreement on how far left the party should go.  About the only consensus is that Trump has to go, but even on that issue there’s been a big gulf between whether he should have been impeached, or censured, or persecuted (now or when out of office), and who is best equipped to defeat him at the balllot box.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1004 on: February 13, 2020, 12:09:43 PM »
Calling this a result of "polarization" is meant to subtly suggest that both sides are equally to blame. They aren't. You don't need to immediately assume that Democrats must somehow be equally to blame whenever Republicans do terrible things. When Republicans do terrible things, blame Republicans.
+1.
What strikes me is how little room there is for disagreement among the current GOP, while the Democrats are often referred to as “divided” or in “disarray” or even “at war amongst one another”

For all practical purposes the GOP is the party of Trump, and its news when even one member of the party disagrees.  Democrats have yet to decide whether to be progressive or moderates, socialists or consensus-builders.  There’s no “cult-iike” rhetoric among Dems because there is no supreme leader and no agreement on how far left the party should go.  About the only consensus is that Trump has to go, but even on that issue there’s been a big gulf between whether he should have been impeached, or censured, or persecuted (now or when out of office), and who is best equipped to defeat him at the balllot box.

We've learned that a sitting president is above the law, so any prosecution will have to happen after (assuming) he leaves office.

PathtoFIRE

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1005 on: February 13, 2020, 12:16:38 PM »
Calling this a result of "polarization" is meant to subtly suggest that both sides are equally to blame. They aren't. You don't need to immediately assume that Democrats must somehow be equally to blame whenever Republicans do terrible things. When Republicans do terrible things, blame Republicans.

Polarization is real, when we mean that given one characteristic of a person, you are able to reasonably and correctly infer a whole additional set of traits, beliefs, and political stances. This holds for both left/right, or progressive/conservative. But the problem right now that we've been dealing with for the past few years is that one side of these divides is polarizing around a less democratic, more theocratic, and increasingly a more brazenly corrupt pole. It doesn't have to be this way, there could be polarization around a whole host of issues, but with neither side resorting to the very worrisome trends on the "right" that we've seen in a number of countries.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1006 on: February 13, 2020, 12:23:19 PM »
Calling this a result of "polarization" is meant to subtly suggest that both sides are equally to blame. They aren't. You don't need to immediately assume that Democrats must somehow be equally to blame whenever Republicans do terrible things. When Republicans do terrible things, blame Republicans.
+1.
What strikes me is how little room there is for disagreement among the current GOP, while the Democrats are often referred to as “divided” or in “disarray” or even “at war amongst one another”

For all practical purposes the GOP is the party of Trump, and its news when even one member of the party disagrees.  Democrats have yet to decide whether to be progressive or moderates, socialists or consensus-builders.  There’s no “cult-iike” rhetoric among Dems because there is no supreme leader and no agreement on how far left the party should go.  About the only consensus is that Trump has to go, but even on that issue there’s been a big gulf between whether he should have been impeached, or censured, or persecuted (now or when out of office), and who is best equipped to defeat him at the balllot box.

We've learned that a sitting president is above the law, so any prosecution will have to happen after (assuming) he leaves office.

Except that’s far from established. Currently there are multiple court cases from several different AGs arguing essentially the opposite.  It’s certainly the WH’s official line that a sitting president cannot be burdened with legal challenges while in office.  Several such arguments have been rejected by sitting district court judges, and will likely wind up before SCOTUS, though whether it’s before the election is an open question.

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1007 on: February 13, 2020, 02:18:06 PM »
Calling this a result of "polarization" is meant to subtly suggest that both sides are equally to blame. They aren't. You don't need to immediately assume that Democrats must somehow be equally to blame whenever Republicans do terrible things. When Republicans do terrible things, blame Republicans.
+1.
What strikes me is how little room there is for disagreement among the current GOP, while the Democrats are often referred to as “divided” or in “disarray” or even “at war amongst one another”

For all practical purposes the GOP is the party of Trump, and its news when even one member of the party disagrees.  Democrats have yet to decide whether to be progressive or moderates, socialists or consensus-builders.  There’s no “cult-iike” rhetoric among Dems because there is no supreme leader and no agreement on how far left the party should go.  About the only consensus is that Trump has to go, but even on that issue there’s been a big gulf between whether he should have been impeached, or censured, or persecuted (now or when out of office), and who is best equipped to defeat him at the balllot box.

We've learned that a sitting president is above the law, so any prosecution will have to happen after (assuming) he leaves office.

Except that’s far from established. Currently there are multiple court cases from several different AGs arguing essentially the opposite.  It’s certainly the WH’s official line that a sitting president cannot be burdened with legal challenges while in office.  Several such arguments have been rejected by sitting district court judges, and will likely wind up before SCOTUS, though whether it’s before the election is an open question.
I'm not sure they care...:
So William Barr is just openly violating court orders now. Nothing about this is okay.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1008 on: February 13, 2020, 02:30:48 PM »
Well Trump has taken another $3.8B in congressional appropriated funds and diverted them to his border wall project. The one he said Mexico would pay for.   Looks like the army and national guard won’t get a bunch of vehicles, and a few less f35 fighter jets and Ospreys.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1009 on: February 13, 2020, 02:56:13 PM »
Well Trump has taken another $3.8B in congressional appropriated funds and diverted them to his border wall project. The one he said Mexico would pay for.   Looks like the army and national guard won’t get a bunch of vehicles, and a few less f35 fighter jets and Ospreys.

It's not like anyone will try to stop him. He gets to do whatever the hell he wants with no personal consequences, and we get to pay for it. Don't forget, this diversion is on top of the destruction of sacred native burial grounds, and the Tohono O'odham Nation was not consulted: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51449739

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1010 on: February 13, 2020, 03:30:13 PM »
Well Trump has taken another $3.8B in congressional appropriated funds and diverted them to his border wall project. The one he said Mexico would pay for.   Looks like the army and national guard won’t get a bunch of vehicles, and a few less f35 fighter jets and Ospreys.

It's not like anyone will try to stop him. He gets to do whatever the hell he wants with no personal consequences, and we get to pay for it. Don't forget, this diversion is on top of the destruction of sacred native burial grounds, and the Tohono O'odham Nation was not consulted: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51449739
I suppose I’m most perturbed by the complete lack of environmental review or considerations given to these über-fast tracked projects. Too many examples of how horrible large infrastructures projects wind up when we ignore the surrounding ecosystems. They’ve already discovered that several dozen miles of new barriers will need flood gates installed after the fact and at significant cost... and in direct contradiction to the very essence of a wall (I.e. a barrier to passage).

I fear we will spend far more in the decade to come fixing the damn wall and all the problems it will cause than on building the wall itself... and in the end it will not have a measurable effect on stemming the flow of drugs, contraband or people across the boarder.

js82

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1011 on: February 13, 2020, 04:27:31 PM »
Calling this a result of "polarization" is meant to subtly suggest that both sides are equally to blame. They aren't. You don't need to immediately assume that Democrats must somehow be equally to blame whenever Republicans do terrible things. When Republicans do terrible things, blame Republicans.
+1.
What strikes me is how little room there is for disagreement among the current GOP, while the Democrats are often referred to as “divided” or in “disarray” or even “at war amongst one another”

For all practical purposes the GOP is the party of Trump, and its news when even one member of the party disagrees.  Democrats have yet to decide whether to be progressive or moderates, socialists or consensus-builders.  There’s no “cult-iike” rhetoric among Dems because there is no supreme leader and no agreement on how far left the party should go.  About the only consensus is that Trump has to go, but even on that issue there’s been a big gulf between whether he should have been impeached, or censured, or persecuted (now or when out of office), and who is best equipped to defeat him at the balllot box.

This isn't really a Trumpian phenomenon, nor is it particularly new.

Democrats are a collection of numerous groups with interests that often overlap, but seldom align perfectly.  The result is a looser coalition, with some subgroups within that coalition holding divergent views on specific issues.  When you have significant constituencies of groups as diverse as African Americans, Hispanic Americans, college students/recent grads of all races, and Socially/Ecologically conscious white suburbanites you're bound to have multiple policy areas where your coalition isn't marching in lockstep.

This is less true of the Republican party, which on a macro level is dominated by two factions - the libertarian-esque faction, and the (white) religious conservative faction.  In practice, the libertarian-leaning Republicans have pretty consistently demonstrated that they are willing to look the other way when it comes to distinctly non-libertarian policies on social issues, in return for tax cuts, deregulation, and strong support of gun ownership.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1012 on: February 13, 2020, 04:39:43 PM »
After Trump’s Attacks on Justice Dept., Barr Says He Will Not ‘Be Bullied’

I’m reminded of a meme from a couple of years ago: “'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.”

Norioch

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1013 on: February 13, 2020, 04:42:23 PM »
Barr says he will not "be bullied" immediately after very publicly being bullied.

Talk is cheap. If you actually want to stand up to Trump then do it through actions.

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1014 on: February 13, 2020, 05:27:24 PM »
After Trump’s Attacks on Justice Dept., Barr Says He Will Not ‘Be Bullied’

I’m reminded of a meme from a couple of years ago: “'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.”

Cognitive dissonance in action.   Excellent.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1015 on: February 13, 2020, 05:32:22 PM »

Calling this a result of "polarization" is meant to subtly suggest that both sides are equally to blame. They aren't. You don't need to immediately assume that Democrats must somehow be equally to blame whenever Republicans do terrible things. When Republicans do terrible things, blame Republicans.

You need to read this book:

https://www.bookdepository.com/Mistakes-Were-Made--but-Not-by-Me-/9781780662657

It has a wonderful section where it talks about how when a generous welfare plan is shown labelled as having a Republican authour to a Republican, they support it, and when a welfare-restricting plan is shown labelled as having a Democrat authour to a Democrat, they support it. Likewise when Israelis are shown a peace plan actually written by an Israeli, but presented as having a Palestinian authour, they aggressively reject it.


From an outsider's perspective, neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are reasonable. And I'm sure if you knew anything about Australian politics, you wouldn't find our parties and their supporters reasonable, either. Of course, the primary bias is that we are decent and reasonable, unlike those guys.

Our tendency to assemble ourselves in "teams" strongly harms our objectivity. We can't remove these biases, but we can become more aware of them. Read the book.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 05:34:43 PM by Kyle Schuant »

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1016 on: February 13, 2020, 05:37:35 PM »
False equivalencies are still false Kyle.  Which Democratic president equivalent to Trump's level of corruption has been elected in recent history?

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1017 on: February 13, 2020, 05:42:19 PM »
After Trump’s Attacks on Justice Dept., Barr Says He Will Not ‘Be Bullied’

I’m reminded of a meme from a couple of years ago: “'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.”

Cognitive dissonance in action.   Excellent.

What's the over/under for how many weeks Barr has left?

Norioch

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1018 on: February 13, 2020, 05:47:45 PM »
Regardless of what he says, in actions Barr is all in on protecting Trump, and both he and Trump know it. So he's not going anywhere. If Barr ever actually took material action counter to Trump's will, then Trump would fire him just like he did Jeff Sessions, but that's not going to happen.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1019 on: February 13, 2020, 07:59:23 PM »
After Trump’s Attacks on Justice Dept., Barr Says He Will Not ‘Be Bullied’

I’m reminded of a meme from a couple of years ago: “'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.”

Cognitive dissonance in action.   Excellent.

What's the over/under for how many weeks Barr has left?

Trump won’t let that NY Times headline slide. Barr might be fired via Twitter tomorrow.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1020 on: February 13, 2020, 11:28:39 PM »
False equivalencies are still false Kyle.  Which Democratic president equivalent to Trump's level of corruption has been elected in recent history?
Or Republican?

He's uniquely corrupt, no doubt. But I'm thinking of Democrats and Republicans generally. After all, the powers of the US President are relatively limited. There's Congress, the courts, the states and counties and so on. No US President can do whatever the hell they want - I mean, Obama wanted a relatively simple thing: "close Guantanamo Bay prison and send the people back home," and couldn't manage it in eight years.

Have a look at the politicalcompass.org website some time. Most Americans hate to admit it, but most political discourse occurs within a relatively narrow frame - the same's true for any country. That's why it's so bitter. Protestants and Catholics hate each-other far more than either hates Moslems or Jews, Sunni and Shi'ia hate each-other more than either hates communists, and so on. The differences between the parties are relatively minor, which is what makes it so bitter - with so many similarities, they have to scream hysterically about their few differences.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1021 on: February 14, 2020, 07:05:18 AM »
Trump just gave an interview to Geraldo in which he talked whether it was a mistake or not to send Rudy to Ukraine. Why just last year he stated he never sent Rudy to Ukraine. Whoops! You know you lie a lot when you can't remember the lies you told. It doesn't matter. Senate Republicans already sent him a message that it's perfectly fine. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1022 on: February 14, 2020, 07:09:00 AM »
False equivalencies are still false Kyle.  Which Democratic president equivalent to Trump's level of corruption has been elected in recent history?
Or Republican?

He might well be uniquely terrible as a president, but Donald Trump has the full and complete support of the Republican party and Republican voters on every move he makes.  Pretending that he is not implementing the will of the people who elected him and continue to support him is dishonest.




Have a look at the politicalcompass.org website some time. Most Americans hate to admit it, but most political discourse occurs within a relatively narrow frame - the same's true for any country. That's why it's so bitter. Protestants and Catholics hate each-other far more than either hates Moslems or Jews, Sunni and Shi'ia hate each-other more than either hates communists, and so on. The differences between the parties are relatively minor, which is what makes it so bitter - with so many similarities, they have to scream hysterically about their few differences.

Again, I'm not sure the facts agree with your hypothesis here.

It sure seems that Christians in the US hate Muslims more than each other.  How many travel bans have been proposed for countries where particular Christian sects are the majority?

There do exist some similarities between the Democratic and Republican parties.  There's a lot of corporate involvement in both parties, most people involved in leadership are very rich.  It's flat out wrong to say that the differences are 'relatively minor' though.  The differences in both policy and approach of both are quite significant.  Differences in environmental policy, approach to gay rights, immigration, employment rules, gun law, democratic process, health care, welfare, prison/policing, foreign relations, etc. are all very different.  These are not tiny issues to be brushed away.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1023 on: February 14, 2020, 08:11:22 AM »
False equivalencies are still false Kyle.  Which Democratic president equivalent to Trump's level of corruption has been elected in recent history?
Or Republican?

He might well be uniquely terrible as a president, but Donald Trump has the full and complete support of the Republican party and Republican voters on every move he makes.  Pretending that he is not implementing the will of the people who elected him and continue to support him is dishonest.

I wonder if it isn’t clear to many people outside the USA that 1. Trump is the embodiment of the modern Republican Party and has the party’s complete and unwavering support. He could burn the Constitution and Declaration of Independence live on Fox News and declare himself supreme leader, and the GOP would likely either remain silent or start fawning. 2. This has been the goal of the GOP for at least my 42-year lifetime, and honestly, probably since the 1960 presidential election. Trump is merely the culmination of a long strategy to win public approval for the far-right based on an appeal to morality and personal responsibility, after which any lip service to those principles could be abandoned to maintain power.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1024 on: February 14, 2020, 08:31:29 AM »
False equivalencies are still false Kyle.  Which Democratic president equivalent to Trump's level of corruption has been elected in recent history?
Or Republican?

He might well be uniquely terrible as a president, but Donald Trump has the full and complete support of the Republican party and Republican voters on every move he makes.  Pretending that he is not implementing the will of the people who elected him and continue to support him is dishonest.




Have a look at the politicalcompass.org website some time. Most Americans hate to admit it, but most political discourse occurs within a relatively narrow frame - the same's true for any country. That's why it's so bitter. Protestants and Catholics hate each-other far more than either hates Moslems or Jews, Sunni and Shi'ia hate each-other more than either hates communists, and so on. The differences between the parties are relatively minor, which is what makes it so bitter - with so many similarities, they have to scream hysterically about their few differences.

Again, I'm not sure the facts agree with your hypothesis here.

It sure seems that Christians in the US hate Muslims more than each other.  How many travel bans have been proposed for countries where particular Christian sects are the majority?

There do exist some similarities between the Democratic and Republican parties.  There's a lot of corporate involvement in both parties, most people involved in leadership are very rich.  It's flat out wrong to say that the differences are 'relatively minor' though.  The differences in both policy and approach of both are quite significant.  Differences in environmental policy, approach to gay rights, immigration, employment rules, gun law, democratic process, health care, welfare, prison/policing, foreign relations, etc. are all very different.  These are not tiny issues to be brushed away.

I think Kyle is hinting at a process by which people are mistrustful of others who are almost exactly like them, but not quite.

Ex. my sister--who is orthodox Jewish--voted for George W. Bush in 2000 because Liebermann apparently believes it's okay to turn on electricity on the Sabbath.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1025 on: February 14, 2020, 08:31:49 AM »
It's not like anyone will try to stop him. He gets to do whatever the hell he wants with no personal consequences, and we get to pay for it. Don't forget, this diversion is on top of the destruction of sacred native burial grounds, and the Tohono O'odham Nation was not consulted: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51449739

This event in Trump-istic Fox-News style:

Quote
USA: Immigrants blow up historical religious side for ideological reasons

The national monument, also place of one of only 686 UNESCO biosphere reserves, has been a treasure trove for biologists and archaeologists. But now 10.000 year old bones are flying through the air in pieces.

Why? You may ask. The reason is simple: The human rights violating group known as Customs and Border Protection, lead by an immigrant named Trump, thought that their selfish, ideoligical reasons are far more important than nature or the heritage of native people.

To erect a simple wall of all things (a proposed quasi-religious building they have been worshipping for years, even fantasizing that someone else would pay for it), they blew up an important religious area, similar to the infamous doings of the Taliban twenty years ago, when those blew up the Bamian Buddhas.

Reliable sources on-site have stated that all pleas to refrain from the soulless destruction have been completely ignored, as were the laws that were enacted to protect sites such as this.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1026 on: February 14, 2020, 10:02:38 AM »
It's not like anyone will try to stop him. He gets to do whatever the hell he wants with no personal consequences, and we get to pay for it. Don't forget, this diversion is on top of the destruction of sacred native burial grounds, and the Tohono O'odham Nation was not consulted: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51449739

This event in Trump-istic Fox-News style:

Quote
USA: Immigrants blow up historical religious side for ideological reasons

The national monument, also place of one of only 686 UNESCO biosphere reserves, has been a treasure trove for biologists and archaeologists. But now 10.000 year old bones are flying through the air in pieces.

Why? You may ask. The reason is simple: The human rights violating group known as Customs and Border Protection, lead by an immigrant named Trump, thought that their selfish, ideoligical reasons are far more important than nature or the heritage of native people.

To erect a simple wall of all things (a proposed quasi-religious building they have been worshipping for years, even fantasizing that someone else would pay for it), they blew up an important religious area, similar to the infamous doings of the Taliban twenty years ago, when those blew up the Bamian Buddhas.

Reliable sources on-site have stated that all pleas to refrain from the soulless destruction have been completely ignored, as were the laws that were enacted to protect sites such as this.

As much as I detest what Trump is doing, this style of reporting is filled with inaccuracies and unhelpful hyperbole.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1027 on: February 14, 2020, 12:04:43 PM »
False equivalencies are still false Kyle.  Which Democratic president equivalent to Trump's level of corruption has been elected in recent history?

Haven't you heard? Obama...

I listened to a anti-Obama fellow recently. Obama was the worst president the country ever had he said. The recession and all that were Obama's fault. He talked about the wars and Obama's drone bombings - apparently "forgetful" that it was the previous president that sent the troops to Iraq and Afghanistan.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1028 on: February 14, 2020, 12:09:01 PM »
False equivalencies are still false Kyle.  Which Democratic president equivalent to Trump's level of corruption has been elected in recent history?

Haven't you heard? Obama...

I listened to a anti-Obama fellow recently. Obama was the worst president the country ever had he said. The recession and all that were Obama's fault. He talked about the wars and Obama's drone bombings - apparently "forgetful" that it was the previous president that sent the troops to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Obama's drone strikes were pretty terrible, and are certainly something that you can/should complain about.  I was talking about the kind of blatant corruption/nepotism that has been on display since Trump took office though . . . which is really unprecedented.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1029 on: February 14, 2020, 12:28:43 PM »
The cognitive dissonance required is astounding to me.

Hillary Clinton was cleared of mishandling classified information on a private server
The DOJ dropped probe of Andrew McCabe
Turns out Barack Obama was in fact born in Hawai'i.
James Comey is not sitting in jail
Robert Mueller's "witch hunt" led to 34 indictments, including guilty pleas or verdicts of 7 US citizens
The Pentagon, and not Mexico, are paying to build a wall along our southern border, slowly
Rudy Guiliani was, in fact, in Ukraine at Trump's orders
Trump did know Lev Parnas rather well
Kim Jung Un keeps progressing North Korea's missile program along
Iran is closer than ever to developing nuclear weapons
...etc

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1030 on: February 14, 2020, 12:45:32 PM »
Culturally conservatives shifted over to the idea that nothing government can do is good anyway, so it's totally fine to put unqualified people like Rick Perry in charge of parts of it (like Dep of Energy) because none of it matters.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1031 on: February 14, 2020, 12:56:00 PM »
Culturally conservatives shifted over to the idea that nothing government can do is good anyway, so it's totally fine to put unqualified people like Rick Perry in charge of parts of it (like Dep of Energy) because none of it matters.

Rick Perry is one of the most qualified people that Trump has placed in a position of authority.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1032 on: February 14, 2020, 01:02:24 PM »
Culturally conservatives shifted over to the idea that nothing government can do is good anyway, so it's totally fine to put unqualified people like Rick Perry in charge of parts of it (like Dep of Energy) because none of it matters.

Rick Perry is one of the most qualified people that Trump has placed in a position of authority.
I agree ... and yet four years ago I never would have thought Perry would become my “favorite” cabinet member. Perry at least has executive experience leading an large, energy-producing state.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1033 on: February 14, 2020, 01:04:05 PM »
Culturally conservatives shifted over to the idea that nothing government can do is good anyway, so it's totally fine to put unqualified people like Rick Perry in charge of parts of it (like Dep of Energy) because none of it matters.

Rick Perry is one of the most qualified people that Trump has placed in a position of authority.
I agree ... and yet four years ago I never would have thought Perry would become my “favorite” cabinet member. Perry at least has executive experience leading an large, energy-producing state.

Yep. Rick “Oops” Perry, the guy that made George W. Bush look smart.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1034 on: February 14, 2020, 01:05:29 PM »
In the land of the blind . . .

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1035 on: February 14, 2020, 01:09:20 PM »
Culturally conservatives shifted over to the idea that nothing government can do is good anyway, so it's totally fine to put unqualified people like Rick Perry in charge of parts of it (like Dep of Energy) because none of it matters.

Rick Perry is one of the most qualified people that Trump has placed in a position of authority.
I agree ... and yet four years ago I never would have thought Perry would become my “favorite” cabinet member. Perry at least has executive experience leading an large, energy-producing state.

Yep. Rick “Oops” Perry, the guy that made George W. Bush look smart.

Meh.  I’m willing to forgive Perry’s brain fart. I’ve stood in front of 100+ undergrads and forgotten what an entire chapter of my dissertation was on - being in front of a bunch of people does weird things to ones brain
I was less than enthusiastic that Perry took the opinion that all government is bad and therefore any and all cuts were by default positive change.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1036 on: February 14, 2020, 01:32:09 PM »
Culturally conservatives shifted over to the idea that nothing government can do is good anyway, so it's totally fine to put unqualified people like Rick Perry in charge of parts of it (like Dep of Energy) because none of it matters.

Rick Perry is one of the most qualified people that Trump has placed in a position of authority.
I agree ... and yet four years ago I never would have thought Perry would become my “favorite” cabinet member. Perry at least has executive experience leading an large, energy-producing state.

Yep. Rick “Oops” Perry, the guy that made George W. Bush look smart.

Meh.  I’m willing to forgive Perry’s brain fart. I’ve stood in front of 100+ undergrads and forgotten what an entire chapter of my dissertation was on - being in front of a bunch of people does weird things to ones brain
I was less than enthusiastic that Perry took the opinion that all government is bad and therefore any and all cuts were by default positive change.

To me his brain fart wasn’t really the issue in itself. It’s that he was making this big statement about “three departments he would cut as soon as he got into office” — so, something his campaign was clearly planning to make one of his major sound bytes — and he couldn’t remember all three.

So, not just some random bit of info he blanked on. And his forgetting, to me, also indicated what BS the whole thing was in the first place. Because if it was legit, he would have remembered the concepts behind why these were the three agencies that just had to go.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1037 on: February 14, 2020, 01:39:56 PM »
I would have been fine with Perry switching jobs with his boss at any point in the past three years.

His hometown Texas paper was pretty condemning of him, though: https://www.statesman.com/news/20191203/report-rick-perry-was-involved-in-ukraine-rsquoschemersquo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1038 on: February 14, 2020, 02:08:00 PM »
I sincerely hope that no one expresses surprise by this: Emboldened, Trump defends right to interfere in criminal cases

Quote
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday said he has “the legal right” to interfere in criminal cases, capping a tumultuous week that raised questions about whether he is eroding the independence of the U.S. legal system.

...

Barr said on Thursday that Trump’s attacks made it “impossible” for him to do his job leading the Justice Department, telling ABC News in an interview: “It’s time to stop the tweeting.”

Trump “has never asked me to do anything in a criminal case,” Barr added.

The president responded on Friday morning. “This doesn’t mean that I do not have, as President, the legal right to do so, I do, but I have so far chosen not to!” he wrote on Twitter.

This is someone who expects that he will face no consequences, no matter what he says or does. Thanks, Senate Republicans. He certainly does seem to have learned his lesson.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1039 on: February 14, 2020, 02:15:47 PM »
^^^^ Yep.

He’s also authorizing mass raids in sanctuary cities this weekend.

Gotta keep his racist base happy. And enrage the libs at the same time. Win-win!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1040 on: February 14, 2020, 03:01:55 PM »


To me his brain fart wasn’t really the issue in itself. It’s that he was making this big statement about “three departments he would cut as soon as he got into office” — so, something his campaign was clearly planning to make one of his major sound bytes — and he couldn’t remember all three.

So, not just some random bit of info he blanked on. And his forgetting, to me, also indicated what BS the whole thing was in the first place. Because if it was legit, he would have remembered the concepts behind why these were the three agencies that just had to go.

Yup. Reminds me of an old joke about two people running for office - the Democrat promises he will expand government to solve all your problems.  The Republican rants that government is the source of everyone’s problems - and he wants your vote to send him there to prove it!


OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1041 on: February 14, 2020, 03:11:39 PM »
^^^^ Yep.

He’s also authorizing mass raids in sanctuary cities this weekend.

Gotta keep his racist base happy. And enrage the libs at the same time. Win-win!

Fuck. I hadn't heard about this yet.

Border Patrol Will Deploy Elite Tactical Agents to Sanctuary Cities

Quote
The specially trained officers are being sent to cities including Chicago and New York to boost the enforcement power of local ICE officers, according to two officials who are familiar with the secret operation. Additional agents are expected to be sent to San Francisco, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Houston, Boston, New Orleans, Detroit and Newark, N.J.

...

The deployment of the teams will run from February through May, according to an email sent to Customs and Border Protection personnel, which was read to The New York Times by one official familiar with the planning.

Among the agents being deployed to sanctuary cities are members of the elite tactical unit known as BORTAC, which acts essentially as the SWAT team of the Border Patrol. With additional gear such as stun grenades and enhanced Special Forces-type training, including sniper certification, the officers typically conduct high-risk operations targeting individuals who are known to be violent, many of them with extensive criminal records.

So now they're sending SWAT teams into minority-majority cities. Apparently a police-state is just fine and dandy with the right-wing as long as it isn't targeting white people.

Edit: Note that this period also overlaps neatly with the Census.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 03:46:28 PM by OtherJen »

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1042 on: February 15, 2020, 04:32:00 AM »
As much as I detest what Trump is doing, this style of reporting is filled with inaccuracies and unhelpful hyperbole.

Um... you did understand that this was the point of it? That is satire - unfortunately the "original" things aren't.

Quote
Culturally conservatives shifted over to the idea that nothing government can do is good anyway, so it's totally fine to put unqualified people like Rick Perry in charge of parts of it (like Dep of Energy) because none of it matters.
Not quite right. That line of thinking goes "Government can only do bad. So if you put an inept person there, he will do less bad."

Quote
Apparently a police-state is just fine and dandy with the right-wing as long as it isn't targeting white people.
Yes, and it DOES NOT NEED TO BE RIGHT WINGERS!!
Once you have gotten that thing running, most people will cover and be happy that it isn't them that are being targeted.
That is how Nazis started, (and this is how get a police state dictatorship.)
There is even a famous poem about is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Quote
    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—

         Because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1043 on: February 15, 2020, 05:29:34 AM »
^^^ Thanks. I've always liked that Niemoller poem. I've been horrified by the creeping rise of fascism for the last several years. I keep thinking that this or that event will finally wake people up, jolt those who voted for him, etc. I think I've finally accepted that for his ride-or-die cult supporters, the bigotry and cruelty is the point. It's a feature, not a bug. And they don't give a shit what happens to others, as long as it doesn't affect them directly and they can "own the libs."

I really didn't want to accept that. Like Anne Frank, I wanted to believe that deep down, people are actually good at heart. I wanted to believe that fighting for voter rights and education would make a difference. Maybe too many people actually aren't good and it doesn't make a damn bit of difference.

teen persuasion

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1044 on: February 15, 2020, 07:21:33 AM »
^^^^ Yep.

He’s also authorizing mass raids in sanctuary cities this weekend.

Gotta keep his racist base happy. And enrage the libs at the same time. Win-win!

Fuck. I hadn't heard about this yet.

Border Patrol Will Deploy Elite Tactical Agents to Sanctuary Cities

Quote
The specially trained officers are being sent to cities including Chicago and New York to boost the enforcement power of local ICE officers, according to two officials who are familiar with the secret operation. Additional agents are expected to be sent to San Francisco, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Houston, Boston, New Orleans, Detroit and Newark, N.J.

...

The deployment of the teams will run from February through May, according to an email sent to Customs and Border Protection personnel, which was read to The New York Times by one official familiar with the planning.

Among the agents being deployed to sanctuary cities are members of the elite tactical unit known as BORTAC, which acts essentially as the SWAT team of the Border Patrol. With additional gear such as stun grenades and enhanced Special Forces-type training, including sniper certification, the officers typically conduct high-risk operations targeting individuals who are known to be violent, many of them with extensive criminal records.

So now they're sending SWAT teams into minority-majority cities. Apparently a police-state is just fine and dandy with the right-wing as long as it isn't targeting white people.

Edit: Note that this period also overlaps neatly with the Census.
Ugh, hadn't even made that connection!

It's going to be hard enough to get an accurate count of EVERYONE in residence (for representation purposes), without this.  Way to skew the counts for opposition areas.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1045 on: February 15, 2020, 07:32:20 AM »
I'll just leave this here. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/13/opinions/problem-democratic-resistance-trump-golinkin/index.html

Quote
The Niemöller poem resurfaced this week, when prominent Resistance member Benjamin Wittes tweeted "First they came for Comey, and I said nothing." Anne Frank huddled in an attic, then died in a Nazi concentration camp. James Comey was fired from the FBI and is currently raking in millions from book sales and speeches.

Apparently to some people, those two situations are comparable.

Nobody is going to take a person's viewpoint seriously if they are hysterical about it and/or comparing a political issue to the effing Holocaust.

Cool Friend

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1046 on: February 15, 2020, 07:59:28 AM »
Yes, always remember: although fascism and ethnic cleansing have happened in the past, we should never recognize the patterns that gave rise to them, learn from what happened, or draw parallels to modern developments in an effort to avoid them happening again.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1047 on: February 15, 2020, 08:32:17 AM »
Yes, always remember: although fascism and ethnic cleansing have happened in the past, we should never recognize the patterns that gave rise to them, learn from what happened, or draw parallels to modern developments in an effort to avoid them happening again.

Very little of Trump being a political boob is in the same political galaxy as Hitler's consolidation of power from 1925 to 1933 (using Nazi Germany as the reference since that's what was brought up by 2-3 posters above).  It's not even remotely close, and to insinuate the two are close based on hyperbolic rhetoric is completely ahistorical, not "drawing parallels."

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1048 on: February 15, 2020, 09:06:01 AM »
Yes, always remember: although fascism and ethnic cleansing have happened in the past, we should never recognize the patterns that gave rise to them, learn from what happened, or draw parallels to modern developments in an effort to avoid them happening again.

Very little of Trump being a political boob is in the same political galaxy as Hitler's consolidation of power from 1925 to 1933 (using Nazi Germany as the reference since that's what was brought up by 2-3 posters above).  It's not even remotely close, and to insinuate the two are close based on hyperbolic rhetoric is completely ahistorical, not "drawing parallels."
A good brief synopsis:
https://alumni.berkeley.edu/california-magazine/just-in/2018-01-25/qa-daniel-ziblatt-trump-and-how-democracies-die
I would also reccomend:
https://www.amazon.com/Conservative-Democracy-Cambridge-Comparative-Politics/dp/0521172993



Cool Friend

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1049 on: February 15, 2020, 09:17:21 AM »
Yes, always remember: although fascism and ethnic cleansing have happened in the past, we should never recognize the patterns that gave rise to them, learn from what happened, or draw parallels to modern developments in an effort to avoid them happening again.

Very little of Trump being a political boob is in the same political galaxy as Hitler's consolidation of power from 1925 to 1933 (using Nazi Germany as the reference since that's what was brought up by 2-3 posters above).  It's not even remotely close, and to insinuate the two are close based on hyperbolic rhetoric is completely ahistorical, not "drawing parallels."

Please read a book.