Trump 2.0

[LennStar]

Can somebody explain to me in simple terms how super high China tariffs and high overall tariffs benefit rich people/Trump/Trump's backers. Never trumper here, so I'm not supporting him at all, and I do think tariffs will hurt our economy. I'm just not understanding who they benefit that Trump is getting push from.

I don't personally buy the just overall general sentiment that "they're deliberately trying to tank the economy because rich people benefit when the economy tanks" narrative, but maybe I'm naive. Maybe I also just don't understand the consequences of tariffs, but I just don't understand who wins with this.

ETA: I believe "they" don't care about tanking the economy, but is it really a feature not a bug?

Yes, you are naive. ;)

But first of all we must be aware that "they" are not a homungous group with all the same goals. But certain people who make their money with speculation, love a good tank in economy.
I mean production may go down 5%, but stock prices? 20%? 30%?
Now leverage that and boy, you are in for a 100% profit year!
And then when the upcycle start, you buy cheap with that money you just made and enjoy the rebound.

That is one group.
Then there are people like Musk who absolutely hate any regulation or resistance like from unions. Nothing like a good economic crisis with high unemployment rates to get rid of those things. It also helps to lower wage costs. More efficiency!

And then there are the "politicals". An economic downturn is always a time of political shifts and redistribution of power.
On the economic side of that, people who are too busy to find something to eat have no time or will protesting against a new factory, even if they know the factory will kill their children.

An economic rapture is the perfect time to grab what you can get. I do not say that there is a large group who sit's down in their bunkers and plans all that together. It's mostly individuals or small groups with their own interest who profit mightily from such events and such, if the opportunity arises, push in that direction. Without a big master plan. Invisible hand and so. 

And if a few thousand plebs die, who cares? There are so many of them! Survival of the fittest, baby!
After all, it would be best if only Alpha Males would be in the government https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-trump-harris-high-status-males-4chan-b2606617.html

[PeteD01]

This opinion piece sums it up pretty well and I agree with the conclusion.

None of the conventional explanations for Trump’s victory stand up to scrutiny
Ben Davis
This election has blown a hole in the worldviews of both leftists and centrists. The pandemic may be a more important factor
Sat 9 Nov 2024

The way to win back power for a solidaristic and humanist politics is to rebuild working-class democratic institutions. In 2020, Sanders asked the question: “Are you willing to fight for someone you don’t know?” This is the question we must ask over and over again and the work we must do is making sure the answer becomes yes.

It will be hard: the right knows that their kryptonite is organization and community, which is why they plan to launch relentless attacks on leftwing organizations and unions. We will need new forms of organization in an era of hyper-online and state repression. We must be nimble and resilient. But it is the only path forward. The first goal? Answer the United Auto Workers’ call that unions across the country align their contracts for 1 May 2028, maximizing the collective leverage of the working class and giving workers across the country a shared goal and collective solidarity.

In the meantime, we must rebuild organizations and unions, for a mass movement for solidaristic politics, for talking to your neighbors and co-workers, for fighting for someone you don’t know and for democracy itself. The story of 2024 was Americans voting for someone they know is a threat to democracy and for millions of people who are not like them because they were left worse off than they were four years before.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/09/trump-victory-explanation-scrutiny

[MustacheAndaHalf]

Most companies seemed to avoid taking a position, either because their leadership thinks a trump presidency will be better for business, or because they are afraid of backlash, or maybe because no one knows what he will actually do.

True, but many companies started initiatives that progressives like and conservatives don't: DEI.  A few conservative activists have been threatening and suing companies with DEI polices as a form of discrimination.  Given the Supreme Court ruling against affirmative action at Harvard, the companies prefer to quietly drop anything controversial.

Can somebody explain to me in simple terms how super high China tariffs and high overall tariffs benefit rich people/Trump/Trump's backers. Never trumper here, so I'm not supporting him at all, and I do think tariffs will hurt our economy. I'm just not understanding who they benefit that Trump is getting push from.

When Trump was last in office, he created tariffs against China - and Biden kept them.  One benefit could be popularity, since Americans like the anti-China tariffs.

I think Trump is confused about what happens after he hits China with 60% tariffs.  He thinks U.S. manufacturing will take over from China.  Some supporters might expect new manufacturing jobs in the U.S. as a result.

There are more than two countries in the world (citation needed?).  When China gets hit with tariffs, other countries can take over manufacturing (Mexico, Vietnam, Bangladesh).  The jobs will flow out of China to other countries - but very few will come back to the U.S.  Trump also plans worldwide tariffs of 10-20%, which is why I say "very few" jobs (not none).  And there's the risk of a trade war, when the rest of the world hits the U.S. with 10-20% tariffs.  Lots of unintended consequences will follow, in my opinion.

[Fru-Gal]

People like Bernie Sanders, who have done more harm to workers rights over the last decade by using their platform to spread this bullshit, need to go die quietly in a hole somewhere.

Right?

Also, Bernie loves to kick a woman when she’s down.*




*Of course women politicians must be challenged as much as anyone. It’s just a noticeable pattern with ol’ Bernie. Real team player there. Oh well at least he’s not Tulsi Gabbard.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

As a non-American all I can do is hope the US doesn't follow the usual path of authoritarians.

1.  Seize power, through an election or otherwise.  Make sure you have lots of military types strutting around.  MAGA or whatever.  Use the power to suppress 'enemies of the state', whoever draws that lucky straw.

2.  Restructure the economy to favour 'who is closest to the powerful' rather than 'who has a good busines, product or idea'.  This is the most common pattern - see Russia, China, most other countries that aren't subject to democratic accountability.

Could this match non-authoritarian governments as well?  Like Ronald Reagan being elected (1), and then making cuts to the highest tax rates (2).

4.  Need to distract them and have a 'short successful war'.  Pick a likely soft target and start the propaganda.  Anyone who opposes obviously hates their country and is an enemy of the state.  'Those damn Canadian socialists hate America, and in a totally unrelated issue have lots of oil and farmland'

5. Invade whatever country.  You have the most powerful military in the history of the world, be a shame not to use it to make the great leader feel strong.  Much suffering ensues.

After the U.S. invaded several countries (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq) it remained a democracy.  Are you basing all of this on Russia?  Because there have been numerous dictatorships that didn't require foreign wars to remain dictatorships.

[PeteD01]

New song from Tennessee Brando. Enjoy:

Here's y'all a new tune I wrote called "Cheaper Eggs"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWu0v8ktUxg

[OurTown]

I just went back and read my posts from November 2016.  LOL.  I agree with myself.

[dividendman]

Trying to stay positive... here are some Trump policies I actually like (assuming he actually pushes for them):

1. Deporting illegal aliens (and hopefully, now that he will be President, not scuttling another immigration bill... he can get the win then)
2. Less involvement in foreign wars, generally anti-war/intervention
3. Smaller federal government (hahaha... this won't happen), eliminating federal programs, dept of education, federal workers

... that's about it.

Does anyone else here agree with any of Trumps policies?

Is there any chance Trump's huge ego will allow for stuff to get passed that could actually help? Making social security and medicare solvent? An immigration bill? That would be nice...

Trump has no actual convictions, so I think there is a greater chance something can get done.

[ChpBstrd]

Can somebody explain to me in simple terms how super high China tariffs and high overall tariffs benefit rich people/Trump/Trump's backers. Never trumper here, so I'm not supporting him at all, and I do think tariffs will hurt our economy. I'm just not understanding who they benefit that Trump is getting push from.

I think the goal is to eventually replace at least some of the hated income tax with a consumption tax, which is what tariffs are.

Who benefits? Probably people for whom income greatly exceeds consumption, such as people with high earnings, and domestic monopolists. Who loses? People who spend (or will spend) most of their paycheck, merchants, and businesses that cannot pass on the higher costs of their imported inputs. The play will be to justify an income tax cut bill as being revenue neutral because the revenue will be made up for with tariff income, and demand destruction won't occur because the prices paid by consumers won't change.

The currency implications are unclear. As any economist will tell you, tariffs will increase prices proportionally and will show up in inflation metrics. Currencies with higher inflation tend to lose value compared to currencies with low inflation. This effect is usually offset by the higher interest rates that occur in currencies with high inflation. Trump's plan to make the Fed less independent might be a bid to keep the Fed from raising rates after the tariffs are implemented and inflation goes up. The idea is to hold rates steady through this one-time price adjustment.

But the thing they might not be able to hold steady is the value of the USD compared to other currencies. I.e. In that scenario why should investors hold USD if they are not being paid a positive real rate of return in interest? An international devaluation combined with tariffs could cause an even greater price increases for things not made in the US. Plus there would be higher margins (costs to consumer) for things made in the US by a domestic monopoly or duopoly that no longer faces foreign competition.

[dandarc]

Yup. Consumption taxes are inherently regressive in nature.

[LennStar]

But the thing they might not be able to hold steady is the value of the USD compared to other currencies. I.e. In that scenario why should investors hold USD if they are not being paid a positive real rate of return in interest?

I think you greatly underestimate the importance of the petrodollar and the effect that the US-dollar is the de facto world reserve currency. Without that the exchange rate to the dollar would have been a lot worse for a long time.

btw. remember Saddam Hussein? The dictator that had been in power for decades and was suddenly hunted for having non-existant WMD?
Half a year earlier he publicly announced to try to replace the dollar with the Euro in oil business. Of course that is a total coincidence, as is that nobody tried that again. Everybody saying anything else is a crazy conspiracy theorist.

[bacchi]

Trying to stay positive... here are some Trump policies I actually like (assuming he actually pushes for them):

1. Deporting illegal aliens (and hopefully, now that he will be President, not scuttling another immigration bill... he can get the win then)

I'm not sure why people want to get rid of illegals so much. They pick the fruit we eat, provide care for kids, clean the hotel rooms we sleep in, and blow the leaves around for almost everyone in the neighborhood.

If we had a sensible temporary worker plan, it could work. Neither party has truly given time for that, post-Reagan, and I don't think that's what Stephen Miller(1) has in mind.

Will those jobs be taken by citizens? As Georgia discovered, US citizens don't want to pick fruit for 12 hours/day in the sun. Are there Americans hankering to pick strawberries for $2.20/flat?




(1) "I would be happy if not a single refugee foot ever again touched American soil." (Narrator: Stephen Miller's family came to the US, as poor refugees, in the early 1900s.)

[Kris]

Trying to stay positive... here are some Trump policies I actually like (assuming he actually pushes for them):

1. Deporting illegal aliens (and hopefully, now that he will be President, not scuttling another immigration bill... he can get the win then)

I'm not sure why people want to get rid of illegals so much. They pick the fruit we eat, provide care for kids, clean the hotel rooms we sleep in, and blow the leaves around for almost everyone in the neighborhood.

If we had a sensible temporary worker plan, it could work. Neither party has truly given time for that, post-Reagan, and I don't think that's what Stephen Miller(1) has in mind.

Will those jobs be taken by citizens? As Georgia discovered, US citizens don't want to pick fruit for 12 hours/day in the sun. Are there Americans hankering to pick strawberries for $2.20/flat?




(1) "I would be happy if not a single refugee foot ever again touched American soil." (Narrator: Stephen Miller's family came to the US, as poor refugees, in the early 1900s.)

This. If we were really serious about getting rid of illegal immigrants, we would crack down on the people who employ them first. If they couldn’t get jobs, they wouldn’t come.

Unlike the actual refugees. Who are literally escaping serious risk of violence or even death in their home countries. I cannot abide Trump’s stance on refugees.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/12/11/trump-administrations-final-insult-and-injury-refugees

[reeshau]

Trying to stay positive... here are some Trump policies I actually like (assuming he actually pushes for them):

1. Deporting illegal aliens (and hopefully, now that he will be President, not scuttling another immigration bill... he can get the win then)

I'm not sure why people want to get rid of illegals so much. They pick the fruit we eat, provide care for kids, clean the hotel rooms we sleep in, and blow the leaves around for almost everyone in the neighborhood.

If we had a sensible temporary worker plan, it could work. Neither party has truly given time for that, post-Reagan, and I don't think that's what Stephen Miller(1) has in mind.

Will those jobs be taken by citizens? As Georgia discovered, US citizens don't want to pick fruit for 12 hours/day in the sun. Are there Americans hankering to pick strawberries for $2.20/flat?




(1) "I would be happy if not a single refugee foot ever again touched American soil." (Narrator: Stephen Miller's family came to the US, as poor refugees, in the early 1900s.)

It's not going to make groceries cheaper, that's for sure.  Quite the opposite.

[PeteD01]

Trying to stay positive... here are some Trump policies I actually like (assuming he actually pushes for them):

1. Deporting illegal aliens (and hopefully, now that he will be President, not scuttling another immigration bill... he can get the win then)

I'm not sure why people want to get rid of illegals so much. They pick the fruit we eat, provide care for kids, clean the hotel rooms we sleep in, and blow the leaves around for almost everyone in the neighborhood.

If we had a sensible temporary worker plan, it could work. Neither party has truly given time for that, post-Reagan, and I don't think that's what Stephen Miller(1) has in mind.

Will those jobs be taken by citizens? As Georgia discovered, US citizens don't want to pick fruit for 12 hours/day in the sun. Are there Americans hankering to pick strawberries for $2.20/flat?




(1) "I would be happy if not a single refugee foot ever again touched American soil." (Narrator: Stephen Miller's family came to the US, as poor refugees, in the early 1900s.)

It's not going to make groceries cheaper, that's for sure.  Quite the opposite.

But there are all kinds of ways already in place to keep produce cheap in the US!

Given the likely delays in processing millions, some might think it be a good idea to put all those idle people to work while they are waiting in the concentration camps to be processed - think about it, useful work being performed in fresh air, no more boredom in the camp, and they actually pay their way and some.

Given that there are millions of illegals working the fields right now, the most effective way to deal with the situation, short of expulsion, would be to confine them while being productive.

The most cost effective way to deal with all this would probably be to confine the to-be-deported in some kind of bucolic plantation-like setting run by private prison corporations.

The bonus is that the criminal justice system is always ready to creatively redefine what constitutes an offense that merits incarceration - so replenishment of the forced labor pool shouldn't be that difficult even if the illegal immigrants stop coming.

Of course, that would require the creation of a permanent impoverished underclass that would serve two purpose: 1. provide a pool of cheap/free work 2. keep everyone, who is not part of the ruling elite, in a state of fear and insecurity.

[bacchi]

Given that some people aligned with the President-elect think that the current economy is in poor shape, is it possible that it could actually go into a recession and those same people perceive that the economy is in great shape ("They tell me it's the best economy ever.")?

In other words, if deportations and tariffs and fucking with the fed bring back inflation and increase unemployment and the market tumbles, could the perception of the economy continue to be topsy-turvy for the MAGA crowd?

It'd be a fascinating 1984 moment of mass psychosis.

[SuperNintendo Chalmers]

Given that some people aligned with the President-elect think that the current economy is in poor shape, is it possible that it could actually go into a recession and those same people perceive that the economy is in great shape ("They tell me it's the best economy ever.")?

In other words, if deportations and tariffs and fucking with the fed bring back inflation and increase unemployment and the market tumbles, could the perception of the economy continue to be topsy-turvy for the MAGA crowd?

It'd be a fascinating 1984 moment of mass psychosis.

I definitely believe this would be the case.  Plus, whether he does nothing and the economy stays the same, or he keeps some of his promises and inflation spikes, it's the Deep State/Congressional Dems that are [not making things better/making things worse].  You're welcome, I'll be on the 10th tee. 

[bacchi]

Given that some people aligned with the President-elect think that the current economy is in poor shape, is it possible that it could actually go into a recession and those same people perceive that the economy is in great shape ("They tell me it's the best economy ever.")?

In other words, if deportations and tariffs and fucking with the fed bring back inflation and increase unemployment and the market tumbles, could the perception of the economy continue to be topsy-turvy for the MAGA crowd?

It'd be a fascinating 1984 moment of mass psychosis.

I definitely believe this would be the case.  Plus, whether he does nothing and the economy stays the same, or he keeps some of his promises and inflation spikes, it's the Deep State/Congressional Dems that are [not making things better/making things worse].  You're welcome, I'll be on the 10th tee.

Hmm, yeah. If his plan fails, Trump would be faced with a choice:

1) Claim that the economy is going gangbusters and hope that the grift continues. There are still some who sincerely believe that 2020 was stolen, after all (as ChpBstrd noted, the 2024 steal went away quickly once he was winning).

2) Lay the blame for inflation and unemployment on someone/thing else like immigrants, after-effects of the Biden administration, the enemy within, China, etc.

[Radagast]

It's 1892 all over again!

[LennStar]

Trying to stay positive... here are some Trump policies I actually like (assuming he actually pushes for them):

1. Deporting illegal aliens (and hopefully, now that he will be President, not scuttling another immigration bill... he can get the win then)

I'm not sure why people want to get rid of illegals so much. They pick the fruit we eat, provide care for kids, clean the hotel rooms we sleep in, and blow the leaves around for almost everyone in the neighborhood.

Yeah. Just fresh from Germany: Since we got stricter rules, a care home for dementia patients has to close, 10 of their workers are getting deported.
But at least those refugees wo only came for the welfare... uh whatever!

[reeshau]

Trying to stay positive... here are some Trump policies I actually like (assuming he actually pushes for them):

1. Deporting illegal aliens (and hopefully, now that he will be President, not scuttling another immigration bill... he can get the win then)

I'm not sure why people want to get rid of illegals so much. They pick the fruit we eat, provide care for kids, clean the hotel rooms we sleep in, and blow the leaves around for almost everyone in the neighborhood.

Yeah. Just fresh from Germany: Since we got stricter rules, a care home for dementia patients has to close, 10 of their workers are getting deported.
But at least those refugees wo only came for the welfare... uh whatever!

Yeah, funny how they can take jobs and only take welfare, at the same time.  In the US, they are also blamed for driving up the price of housing!  So, those agriculture jobs must have really had a pay boost.  But, I bet the comute from those gated suburban subdivisions is killer, out into the fields...

Just a list of grievances, all pointed to a boogeyman.  Put together, they always sound ridiculous.

[LaineyAZ]

It's not just agricultural and hotel workers - don't forget that about one-third of all U.S. Nobel prize winners have been immigrants.  We continue to benefit by attracting some of the smartest people in the world.

And most of them don't enter by trekking through the desert - about half of illegal immigrants initially entered the country legally and then overstayed their visa.  I know several very smart immigrants who came as college students, got hired by a U.S. company and eventually got their citizenship.  It took many years but in their lifetime they have also become adjunct professors, all very much a net positive for our country.

Instead of managing this process intelligently, we have stupidly made immigration a scapegoat.

Now with climate change we need to figure this out quickly because the number of desperate people in the global south is only going to continue to rise. 

[LennStar]

I know several very smart immigrants who came as college students, got hired by a U.S. company and eventually got their citizenship.  It took many years but in their lifetime they have also become adjunct professors, all very much a net positive for our country.

Instead of managing this process intelligently, we have stupidly made immigration a scapegoat.

See, those damn immigrants are the cause for the liberal Democrats bias at university! Those shithole people are rotting the brains of our best and turn them away from patriotism! It's always the immigrants, I tell you!!!

That was sarcasm, in case you didn't get it.

Yeah, funny how they can take jobs and only take welfare, at the same time.

I call it the Schrodinger's refugee. He is able to both take away your job and live off welfare without lifting a finger at the same rage-time!

[AJDZee]

The US is Canada's biggest trading partner (and Canada is the US's biggest trading partner - neat, I never knew that!).  Trump has previously unilaterally decided to impose trade restrictions and tariffs on things seemingly at random.  Project 2025 is a plan to significantly increase tariffs - so I fully expect significant damage to both the Canadian and US economies when these come into effect.  I also expect this to lead to a recession here in Canada.  The damage to world wide trade could be pretty far reaching too, and doesn't make me feel happy about being really, really close to ER.

At risk of sounding like i have a tin foil hat on, I have a few predictions of my own. and yes I agree, in my opinion this will mean a significant recession for Canada (bigger than we are already set to have).

Here's a fun one I'll add... I also predict Putin will start annexing some of Canada's islands in the artic. New trade routes are set to start opening up as artic ice melts away, and Trump has already told Putin 'do whatever you want'. A Trump-led US isn't coming to Canada's aid given we haven't hit our NATO military spending targets in...ever...?

[GuitarStv]

The US is Canada's biggest trading partner (and Canada is the US's biggest trading partner - neat, I never knew that!).  Trump has previously unilaterally decided to impose trade restrictions and tariffs on things seemingly at random.  Project 2025 is a plan to significantly increase tariffs - so I fully expect significant damage to both the Canadian and US economies when these come into effect.  I also expect this to lead to a recession here in Canada.  The damage to world wide trade could be pretty far reaching too, and doesn't make me feel happy about being really, really close to ER.

At risk of sounding like i have a tin foil hat on, I have a few predictions of my own. and yes I agree, in my opinion this will mean a significant recession for Canada (bigger than we are already set to have).

Here's a fun one I'll add... I also predict Putin will start annexing some of Canada's islands in the artic. New trade routes are set to start opening up as artic ice melts away, and Trump has already told Putin 'do whatever you want'. A Trump-led US isn't coming to Canada's aid given we haven't hit our NATO military spending targets in...ever...?

I don't think Russia is likely to do that.  That would put them in violation of NATO's agreement and immediately they would be at war with all NATO countries.  Even if Trump fails to hold up the US side of things, there is likely to be a lot of support from the other member countries (especially the ones closer to Russia who would stand to lose a lot via incursions if NATO collapsed).

[sixwings]

Trying to stay positive... here are some Trump policies I actually like (assuming he actually pushes for them):

1. Deporting illegal aliens (and hopefully, now that he will be President, not scuttling another immigration bill... he can get the win then)

I'm not sure why people want to get rid of illegals so much. They pick the fruit we eat, provide care for kids, clean the hotel rooms we sleep in, and blow the leaves around for almost everyone in the neighborhood.

If we had a sensible temporary worker plan, it could work. Neither party has truly given time for that, post-Reagan, and I don't think that's what Stephen Miller(1) has in mind.

Will those jobs be taken by citizens? As Georgia discovered, US citizens don't want to pick fruit for 12 hours/day in the sun. Are there Americans hankering to pick strawberries for $2.20/flat?




(1) "I would be happy if not a single refugee foot ever again touched American soil." (Narrator: Stephen Miller's family came to the US, as poor refugees, in the early 1900s.)

Whaaaaaaa? You don’t think the wages for a machinist in Michigan will rise if a farmer in Georgia wants to pay minimum wage for someone to pick peaches???? That’s crazy talk.

Realistically though the mass deportations are a joke and won’t happen. What is more likely to happen is trump will spend billions and deport like 10 people, who would have been deported anyway, and then brag about it. And morons will eat that shit up and a trump aligned contractor will walk away with a lot of money.

[GuitarStv]

Trying to stay positive... here are some Trump policies I actually like (assuming he actually pushes for them):

1. Deporting illegal aliens (and hopefully, now that he will be President, not scuttling another immigration bill... he can get the win then)

I'm not sure why people want to get rid of illegals so much. They pick the fruit we eat, provide care for kids, clean the hotel rooms we sleep in, and blow the leaves around for almost everyone in the neighborhood.

If we had a sensible temporary worker plan, it could work. Neither party has truly given time for that, post-Reagan, and I don't think that's what Stephen Miller(1) has in mind.

Will those jobs be taken by citizens? As Georgia discovered, US citizens don't want to pick fruit for 12 hours/day in the sun. Are there Americans hankering to pick strawberries for $2.20/flat?




(1) "I would be happy if not a single refugee foot ever again touched American soil." (Narrator: Stephen Miller's family came to the US, as poor refugees, in the early 1900s.)

Whaaaaaaa? You don’t think the wages for a machinist in Michigan will rise if a farmer in Georgia wants to pay minimum wage for someone to pick peaches???? That’s crazy talk.

Realistically though the mass deportations are a joke and won’t happen. What is more likely to happen is trump will spend billions and deport like 10 people, who would have been deported anyway, and then brag about it. And morons will eat that shit up and a trump aligned contractor will walk away with a lot of money.

The first Trump presidency separated the parents and children of 5,400 families at the border with no plan or system to reunite them.  Many have still not been reunited.  I don't know if Trump will follow through on his plan of mass deportations, but I do know that he'll do his best to ruin the lives of many thousands of people.  Again.

[Glenstache]

Never underestimate the awful shit humanity will do in the name of ideology.

[reeshau]

60 Minutes recently had a piece on ICE deportations, highlighting the amount of work needed to do each one, following law enforcement standards: probable cause, location, safely engaging with them, etc.  They prioritize criminals (other than immigrant status) because that is how many people they have.

So, the scarier part, to me, is being a priority they will bring in others without proper training to do the increased job, be they law enforcement with no knowledge of immigration law, or military.  Those folks will make a lot of mistakes, on top of whatever their marching orders are.

The cost to do it will be tremendous.  The cost to clean up after it will dwarf that.

[MrGreen]

Dude these cabinet picks are something else. Matt Gaetz for Attorney General? Pete Hegseth for SecDef? Is our government going to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time?

[bacchi]

Dude these cabinet picks are something else. Matt Gaetz for Attorney General? Pete Hegseth for SecDef? Is our government going to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time?

He's obviously awarding loyalty but it could also be the classic "see, the government sucks (even though I made it suck)" play.

The real question is whether enough Americans will care.

[Kris]

Dude these cabinet picks are something else. Matt Gaetz for Attorney General? Pete Hegseth for SecDef? Is our government going to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time?

He's obviously awarding loyalty but it could also be the classic "see, the government sucks (even though I made it suck)" play.

The real question is whether enough Americans will care.

Not to mention that conservatives love “liberal tears,” so the more horrible and outlandish a candidate, the more they will love that it upsets sane people.

[sixwings]

i really, really doubt that Gaetz gets confirmed by even a republican senate. Thune is a pretty vanilla classic republican, I don't think he's mega MAGA

[waltworks]

My understanding is that there will be no confirmation hearings, just recess appointments (with Thune's cooperation).

-W

[sixwings]

My understanding is that there will be no confirmation hearings, just recess appointments (with Thune's cooperation).

-W

I’m not convinced Thune will play ball here, he’s not MAGA. As far as republican majority leaders Thune isn’t awful and senators have a much longer career than presidents and they have to look out for that career. Trump is assembling the most incompetent cabinet in modern history and republicans in the senate have a tough couple of election cycles coming up. They may not want Trump to burn them all down. But who knows, I thought Harris was going to comfortably win so my political punditry sucks a lot.

[Fru-Gal]

Goddammit, why did I have to look at the news. Gabbard as director of intelligence. At least a cursory look at headlines tells me I’m not the only one with concerns.

SERENITY NOW

[Fru-Gal]

I know… something that would reassure me would be comparisons to other times in US history where magnates controlled the government (I already know the Cold War, the spy stuff and the WWII stuff, I’m thinking earlier than that). Please help.

[LennStar]

So far everything seems consistent with the promise to destroy as much government as possible.

BURN BABY, BURN!!!

Maybe it was time and the system was too broken. A revolution from the top is something rare though, so it will be something for the history books. Hopefully not in the way our German revolution from the top went.

Funny that here it was the fact that there were too many parties, and in the US it's the fact that there were only 2.

[BC_Goldman]

One small bit of hope is that Scott didn't win the Senate vote. From what I've heard, he was the choice of Trump henchmen like Musk.

I didn't see all the details but Thune won on the second round so I'm not sure if Scott was out after the first round?

[sixwings]

One small bit of hope is that Scott didn't win the Senate vote. From what I've heard, he was the choice of Trump henchmen like Musk.

I didn't see all the details but Thune won on the second round so I'm not sure if Scott was out after the first round?

I heard McConnell kept it a secret vote for exactly this reason. It allowed senators to vote for Thune and not get attacked.

God help us when McConnell is the one holding back the tide of incompetence and stupidity. Like Gaetz is probably unlikely to get confirmed because Collins, Murkowski and McConnell are very unlikely to vote to confirm him.

Mitch McConnell, welcome to the resistance.

[ChpBstrd]

Dude these cabinet picks are something else. Matt Gaetz for Attorney General? Pete Hegseth for SecDef? Is our government going to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time?

He's obviously awarding loyalty but it could also be the classic "see, the government sucks (even though I made it suck)" play.

The real question is whether enough Americans will care.

Not to mention that conservatives love “liberal tears,” so the more horrible and outlandish a candidate, the more they will love that it upsets sane people.

I read an article where someone referred to it as "god-level trolling" and it made me think.

What if Trump understands that Democrats' response to his Cabinet of Clowns and Criminals will be more damaging to Democrats than it will be to him?

All the online panic, all the fundraising emails, the pundits shouting nonstop about how unreasonable everything is --- it's just exhausting and leads more and more people to disengage from politics altogether.

Trump understands that Democrats' online and media-based channels of interaction inherently create fatigue and burnout, while Republican forms of organizations (churches, militias, hunting clubs, families, physically meeting activist groups) are either immune to bad news or thrive on their separateness from the imaginary mainstream.

He's picking the absolute worst possible people to put in government as a purposeful way to goad Democrats into burning themselves out, and to disengage more and more people from politics. Democrats have historically been the most difficult people to get to vote, so the more disgusted he can make them feel, the more they will avoid the thing that disgusts them. Democrats will do that job for him. As the panic goes up, Democrats' motivation will go down.

[reeshau]

One small bit of hope is that Scott didn't win the Senate vote. From what I've heard, he was the choice of Trump henchmen like Musk.

I didn't see all the details but Thune won on the second round so I'm not sure if Scott was out after the first round?

I heard McConnell kept it a secret vote for exactly this reason. It allowed senators to vote for Thune and not get attacked.

God help us when McConnell is the one holding back the tide of incompetence and stupidity. Like Gaetz is probably unlikely to get confirmed because Collins, Murkowski and McConnell are very unlikely to vote to confirm him.

Mitch McConnell, welcome to the resistance.

I seriously think the Gaetz nomination could be quite useful in killing the idea of recess appointments.

[the_gastropod]

I seriously think the Gaetz nomination could be quite useful in killing the idea of recess appointments.

Incidentally, "recess appointment" is what Matt Gaetz calls a date.

[bacchi]

I seriously think the Gaetz nomination could be quite useful in killing the idea of recess appointments.

Incidentally, "recess appointment" is what Matt Gaetz calls a date.

Ba dum tss!

Ya think the House Republicans will release the Gaetz investigation files it was going to release this week before he quit?

[Sailor Sam]

I seriously think the Gaetz nomination could be quite useful in killing the idea of recess appointments.

Incidentally, "recess appointment" is what Matt Gaetz calls a date.

I thought about that for a second. Then I made a horrible bray-laugh sound. Then I looked around my empty hotel room to make sure no one saw me being inappropriate.

[Sandi_k]

I seriously think the Gaetz nomination could be quite useful in killing the idea of recess appointments.

Incidentally, "recess appointment" is what Matt Gaetz calls a date.

Ba dum tss!

Ya think the House Republicans will release the Gaetz investigation files it was going to release this week before he quit?

I am hoping someone leaks it.

Apparently he's "agreed" to go through Senate confirmation hearings. But that's probably because he knows that the recess appointment process is more likely.

Because House rules forbid releasing a negative report prior to the election, that means it was negative. The inquiry covered "sexual misconduct allegations along with claims that Mr. Gaetz misused state identification records, converted campaign funds to personal use, accepted impermissible gifts under House rules, and shared inappropriate images or videos on the House floor, among other transgressions."

So yeah - I am hoping it gets leaked. Where's Anonymous when you need them?

[reeshau]

I can imagine a comeuppance where Gaetz gets dropped somewhere in the confirmation process.  Then, having resigned, he has no platform.

But then, I imagine DeSantis re-appointing him to his old position...

[dandarc]

I can imagine a comeuppance where Gaetz gets dropped somewhere in the confirmation process.  Then, having resigned, he has no platform.

But then, I imagine DeSantis re-appointing him to his old position...

Suppose part B there depends on how long things take. Pretty thin house majority for R's, so I'd imagine for this to work whomever is appointed in Gaetz's place will have understood that they are to resign themselves if the elected rep becomes available again.

[wenchsenior]

MAGA base posting over on the reddit thread for conservatives is unhappy with the John Thune pick already.

[wenchsenior]

I seriously think the Gaetz nomination could be quite useful in killing the idea of recess appointments.

Incidentally, "recess appointment" is what Matt Gaetz calls a date.

I thought about that for a second. Then I made a horrible bray-laugh sound. Then I looked around my empty hotel room to make sure no one saw me being inappropriate.

Same, except in my living room.