Author Topic: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?  (Read 4572 times)

lavender_

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Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« on: October 26, 2016, 07:33:05 PM »
I have what I consider to be two fairly opposite passions: traveling, and living frugally. FIRE is extremely appealing to me, and very much in line with my frugal upbringing. On the other hand, traveling extensively before life gets more complicated is also a top priority. Are these desires compatible?

Some background: my husband and I are 24. We absolutely love to travel. My internet surfing is divided pretty evenly between MMM and sites like Nomadic Matt, Be My Travel Muse, etc. and the ideologies are pretty opposite. The travel sites all tend to convey the same general message: "You CAN afford to travel! The only thing holding you back is you! Let go of your reservations, take the chance, you won't regret it! The experiences will be worth every penny!" They tend to refer to reasons not to travel as "excuses," and congratulate those who take the plunge, quit their jobs, and venture out to backpack around the world. Financial advice on these sites tends to revolve around how to find the best airfare deals, how to stretch your dollar while abroad, and, at times, tips on jobs you can take while traveling to sustain your travel lifestyle. As I read all this, as wonderful and liberating as it sounds, I can't help but wonder: what happens when you come back? None of these sites ever seem to address this (at least none that I've seen). The authors of the blogs, of course, sustain themselves with their blogs. I think I'd be naive to assume I could support myself the same way. My husband and I feel inclined to travel while we're young, before we eventually settle in our hometown and have kids. The best option for us seems to be to do some kind of work while abroad (he's a programmer whose job allows him to work from anywhere, which is perfect, and I could probably pick up some freelancing gig). That wouldn't exactly be a backpacking lifestyle, as we would be taking the workday with us, but the alternative is watching our savings shrink with no income to replenish it and starting over from scratch in a year or two. That's tough to swallow, no matter how fulfilling the experiences would be.

Do any of you feel a similar tension between the desire to travel and the desire for FIRE? Anyone able to strike the balance and manage both? Would love to hear how others have handled it.

limeandpepper

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2016, 09:50:44 PM »
Hi, welcome to the forum!

I think everyone has their own path in terms of striking a balance in scenarios such as this.

In my case, my partner and I worked and saved up for several years, and during this time we would go for shorter travel trips of 3 to 4 weeks every now and then. After we felt comfortable with how much we had in savings, I quit my job and we travelled for about 5 months. This was a couple years ago, we're hoping to do something like this again, maybe in another couple years! I have an eclectic resume and for the most part, will take whatever job I can get as long as I don't feel it to be soul-destroying - I did not work at all while we were away. My partner has been a freelancer in his field for many years, he had to finish up a bit of work during our trip, but most of the time he was free, and preferred it that way. Upon our return, I found something else to do, and he just continued freelancing.

Dicey

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2016, 11:51:53 PM »
I felt it acutely when I was single and saving for FIRE.  I traveled frequently, but not for long periods of time. Now, I'm FIRE, but my MIL has Alzheimer's, so we moved her in with us after my FIL died. DH is still working,  because, defined benefit pension in five years, and he'd go nuts at home all day with no possibility of travel.

My vote is you travel early and often, because you never know what life has in store. If I hadn't traveled in the past, I'd really resent my MIL. As it is, I hope my turn to travel will come again in due time. But I won't be any younger then, will I? Go.

expatartist

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2016, 03:25:51 AM »
Everyone has different set points when it comes to these topics. Many travel bloggers start to sound the same after a while. One who might resonate more with you is "Hobo Nora" of http://www.theprofessionalhobo.com/

She writes about financially sustainable long term travel. She worked in the financial industry for a number of years instead of going to university,  saved a bunch, invested it, and let it grow while she works as a freelance writer for various travel and lifestyle publications.

Aussiegirl

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2016, 05:59:12 AM »
I felt it acutely when I was single and saving for FIRE.  I traveled frequently, but not for long periods of time. Now, I'm FIRE, but my MIL has Alzheimer's, so we moved her in with us after my FIL died. DH is still working,  because, defined benefit pension in five years, and he'd go nuts at home all day with no possibility of travel.

My vote is you travel early and often, because you never know what life has in store. If I hadn't traveled in the past, I'd really resent my MIL. As it is, I hope my turn to travel will come again in due time. But I won't be any younger then, will I? Go.

+1 for this.   Likewise, I traveled prior to FIRE but not for long periods, and not for "weekends away" etc.   I went overseas once a year for 3-4 weeks, different spot each year, and traveled frugally in comparison to my income.    If I traveled, I made it worth while.     I fully support FIRE, and FIRED myself just a couple of months ago, but I don't regret doing the travel on the way even if it delayed my FIRE date.   I have so many great memories, and no regrets.   What I would have regretted was not seeing all the great things I've seen, having the experiences I've had, if for whatever reason I couldn't do it now. 


lavender_

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2016, 06:58:56 PM »
Thank you all for your advice and for sharing your experiences. My biggest worry, more than the prospect of delaying FIRE by traveling, is regretting not traveling - as a few of you mention. But it'd certainly be preferable for these not to be mutually exclusive.

limeandpepper, you mentioned waiting to travel until you were comfortable with what you had in savings. Can I ask what your threshold was for feeling comfortable? If that's too prying a question, I'll reframe it and say that my husband and I have about $33k in savings and another $3,500 in a mutual fund. We have no debt. Is this a reasonable amount to feel comfortable on? If the goal is to travel (cheaply) for a year or two, most likely working a bit, and to not start from nothing upon our return home. I realize this is something of a loaded question as everyone's lifestyle is different, but I appreciate any perspectives.

Oh, and thank you for the welcome - I've been a reader for so many years that I don't feel new, but I suppose this is my first real appearance. :)

Metric Mouse

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2016, 07:16:02 PM »
Posting to follow.

Also, this thread discusses doing mini retirements along the way, instead of doing a large retirement at the end. May be pertinent, as you mentioned that your jobs are fairly flexible.

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/early-retirement-vs-serial-mini-retirements/msg1137262/#msg1137262

kiwigirls

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2016, 07:34:36 PM »
I am another vote for going sooner rather than later.  Why not save hard for say, the next 6 months or a year whilst planning an epic trip? You can be hardcore frugal because you have a tangible goal and aim to save enough in this time to sustain your travel.  Then you don't have to touch your current nest egg.   Another option is to look into the option of working holiday visas - they are available to under 30's to many countries so you can live for a year, do some work and some travel?  I had two years in London and used it as a base to earn money and visit different places.  As others have said you don't know what life has in store for you or how the world will change.  Its 20 years on since my time in London and I am very glad I travelled when I was young because I went to places you couldn't go to now such as Syria,  & Jordan.  And also the way you travel is different (back then it was budget vans, cheap group travel and tents) whereas now I like a little more luxury (air bnb, train..)

Dicey

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2016, 08:20:05 PM »
... If that's too prying a question, I'll reframe it and say that my husband and I have about $33k in savings and another $3,500 in a mutual fund. We have no debt. Is this a reasonable amount to feel comfortable on? If the goal is to travel (cheaply) for a year or two, most likely working a bit, and to not start from nothing upon our return home...
Okay, this leads to more questions:
What kind of savings is this 33k + 3.5k in?
Have you begun funding any retirement accounts yet?
Do you have any other debt?

Next:
Where do you want to go?
For how long?
How much do you think that will cost?
Have you looked into any work/travel programs in the places you'd like to go?
How long are you willing to wait?

I'm not trying to discourage you in any way, just trying to formulate a more helpful answer.

DecD

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2016, 08:35:10 PM »
Travel was a high priority for me when I was in my 20s.  And I didn't want to take a 2-week trip, I wanted to live elsewhere and experience life in another place.  This may not be what you're looking for but here's what I did.

I took a junior year abroad in college.  You guys are past that, but it was great.  Lived in England for a year, joined the university hiking club, and spent every Sunday climbing mountains in Wales or the Lake District.  During the easter and summer holidays, went to Europe, stayed in hostels for 3 weeks at a time, saw a ton.

Then a year later, I was done with college but had a semester of scholarship left over due to my study abroad year, so spent it on a summer program studying WWII history in Normandy.  Spent every weekend in a different part of France. Then went back to the US to get a masters degree.

After my masters, I wasn't done.  Found another masters program at an American university with a satellite campus in France.  Spent a year getting most of a second masters in engineering, fully funded (when you're an engineering student in 2001, you can do stuff like that.)  I spent my entire stipend, traveling every weekend, but I started that year with $6K in my bank account, and ended it with $6K in my bank account.

I have never regretted it.

I started a full-time engineering job after the year-long boondoggle in France, so the real cost of that year was a year of lost pay, retirement, benefits, seniority, etc.  And worth EVERY penny.  I'm so incredibly glad that I did that.  At this point, I've seen most of Western Europe and have experienced life (albeit as a student) in two foreign countries.  I've now got a job, kids, a house, etc, that makes such a thing much harder....though if it were a priority I could still make it happen.  Maybe one day?

All I can say is I don't miss the money/savings/etc that I'd now have if I'd gotten my full-time job a year earlier.  But I'm also glad I did it in a break-even kind of way- I didn't go into debt for the experience.

Goldielocks

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2016, 08:47:24 PM »
You can definitely do this..

1)  Travel 10 years, earning just enough to get your travel bug well fed.  (option - a job that included a lot of travel)

2) Then save like mad fiends for 15 years, while having kid(s).   Target savings rate is 50%.

3)  Retire early, pick up work for cash for travel as you like.

The trick is deliberately planning to have no debts and a bit saved before you start saving mode, and during saving mode, to find accommodation / jobs / etc.  that makes it possible to have kids and save 50% at the same time.  This is easier when you plan for it in advance of the kids actually happening.

limeandpepper

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2016, 12:23:21 AM »
limeandpepper, you mentioned waiting to travel until you were comfortable with what you had in savings. Can I ask what your threshold was for feeling comfortable? If that's too prying a question, I'll reframe it and say that my husband and I have about $33k in savings and another $3,500 in a mutual fund. We have no debt. Is this a reasonable amount to feel comfortable on? If the goal is to travel (cheaply) for a year or two, most likely working a bit, and to not start from nothing upon our return home. I realize this is something of a loaded question as everyone's lifestyle is different, but I appreciate any perspectives.

For my circumstances, I felt like I needed a fair amount to feel comfortable. While I was in my then-job, I had thought about leaving for other jobs before, and sent out applications and had the occasional interview, but never got anything. So that really hit my confidence about my ability to get another job ever again. Add to that, after our trip, we were also going to settle down in another city/state, adding to the uncertainty. Also, though we ended up travelling for only 5 months, the idea at the time was to do it indefinitely, so it could have been like a couple of years, and I wanted to budget for that. As an aside, we had an amazing time and totally could have kept on going for way longer than 5 months - but we made the "mistake" of booking an irresistibly cheap flight to the city we were going to settle down in, we figured it could be a mid-trip stop, but we got comfortable, plus the Australian dollar was falling at the time, and we thought maybe it was time to get back to work, so we didn't fly off again. :p

So anyway, taking all that into account... I had over $100k by the time I left. But as I said, I had massive job insecurity.

Would you be able to quite easily find a job upon your return? If finding a job is typically quite easy for you, you won't need as much. If you'll be working while you're travelling, you won't need as much, either.

What I would suggest is:

- Work out how much it would cost for the trip you're planning to do.
- Save at least that much.
- Save enough on top of that to tide you over the possibility of being unemployed for a while upon your return. "Enough" will vary from person to person, but I would go with at least 6 months of living expenses.

Pages 1 - 7 of my journal (in my signature) has a lot of discussion about my trip preparation (all in the Asian region), if you're interested in seeing how I went about getting ready to leave my job, vacating my rental apartment, getting vaccinations, planning itineraries, booking flights, etc. (plus there is also a Nepal jaunt thrown in there somewhere). Pages 7 - 10 is when the trip happened. Everything after that is just life after the trip. I had trouble settling down at first, but all fine now!

Villanelle

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2016, 12:50:40 AM »
My husband is in the military, but we pushed hard for him to be stationed in Europe mostly so that we could ease some of this conflict.  Of course every penny we spent on travel was still a penny not going toward FIRE, but we were able to travel so much and so (relatively cheaply) that it felt well worth it to us. We live in Germany for 34 months and traveled to 32 countries and probably 50+ cities around Europe.  So we traveled *a lot*.  Soe of these were longer trips; I think we had a few 12 day excursions--and most were 3-4 day weekends.  You can see a heck of a lot in 3-4 days when it's only a 1-2 hour flight.  We were somewhat budget conscious, but not  incredibly so.  (VRBO or cheap hotels, rather than hostels, for example.)  We don't actually track our spending carefully, like so many here do, but it's very possible we spent $20k+ during those 3 years.  I don't regret a single dollar of that, and in fact I look back and wish we'd pushed ourselves a bit more, since we ended up not seeing as much of the local and semi-local area as I'd have liked.  We always put that off because we could do it any time and Prague and Iceland and Morocco and Scotland were calling us. 

Anyway, all of this is to say that we found working overseas so be a wonderful way to get in a lot of travel (and to make it to even a Saturday exploring our local area was really a cultural and travel experience).  It sounds like remote work is an option for you, which gives you many of the same benefits, but I also feel like there's something about living longer term in another place that enriches you in a way very similar to travel, but one that you can't get when you are just visiting, even if "visiting" is 6-8 weeks.

We now live in Japan (for the second time) and while we don't get to travel much thanks to DH's demanding (auto-correct change that to demeaning, but thankfully it's not that bad!) job here, when a Saturday includes a trip to Tokyo and during the week I get paid ~$40/hr to sit and chat with lovely Japanese people, I'm not complaining!  And I still have at least some of that same feeling I get when traveling, because in many ways, I still am. A weekend in Hakone, a Sunday in Harajuku, A 3 day weekend skiing in Nagano--even those these things are local to me, I feel them in the same place of my heart that I did a trip to Vienna or Portugal.  And living in a place you get to know your neighbors and their customs and how they sort their trash and what the bureaucracy involved in getting internet set up looks like, and that's pretty enlightening, too.  Maybe those aren't the aspects of travel that appeal to you, but if they are, consider trying to find a job with a foreign company, if that's an option.  As a side benefit they may also pay for relocation expenses, which is one less plane ticket you have to purchase!  It's a very different approach than taking a mini-retirement with little or no work, but we found it to be a great compromise between taking time off from investing and moving toward FIRE, and getting to do some of the travel we'd been dreaming about for years and had assumed would need to wait until full and permanent FIRE was reached.  I'm a worrier, and I don't think I could have enjoyed myself nearly as much is I was viewing every day away as a postponement of our FIRE goals, and every dollar spent as a step close to the edge. 

expatartist

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2016, 03:20:27 AM »
Like previous posters, I encourage you to work overseas if that's something you're interested in. It's a more in depth experience than traveling through a region, and short jaunts from home base are great for weekends and holidays.

There are many ways to go about it. For example, in general order from least to most lucrative:

* Working holiday visa (mostly need to be under 30) for 'casual work' but if done strategically can be helpful to your career
* Teaching English. Salaries variable worldwide but it's generally considered something to do for a couple years max full time  (or great casual work for retirees / trailing spouses). Anywhere good will require an EFL cert of some sort. Some will pay airfare to and from home country and housing,  but salaries are on the low end compared to other options below
* International School overseas hire. Requires teaching certification (if in a teaching role) and generally 2+ years post-cert experience. Standard perks are housing allowance, tickets to and from home country (usually on an annual basis), laptops,  etc.
* Local corporate hire. relevant qualifications required. No expat perks.
* Corporate transfer. May sometimes be combined with "doing your time at megacorp" for quick advancement mid-career. By far the best option financially. Often expectations are commesurately high. Can take years of waiting depending on where you want to go.

SnackDog

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2016, 03:47:17 AM »
I was a penniless student at large University with a generous travel allowance for students doing field work or going to conferences.  I traveled extensively between ages 22 and 29 and sort of got it out of my system. Then reality set in and I got a job (with plenty of pampered international travel but lots of "work" involved).  I consider my 20s my retirement.  Now, I'm happy to work until it's no longer fun.  As we age, the travel equation rebalances away from excitement (people everywhere are the same; the wonders of the world never quite look like the brochure) toward the discomfort of flights, queues, etc.  The grass is really no greener and you can have experiences as exciting, new and different within driving distance of home if you know where/how to look.  The earth is wonderful everywhere, whether it is the Ross Sea or the Hudson River.

I would encourage you to set aside your savings goals and travel for up to a year.  Do it on the cheap.  Just get a bus ticket to Mexico City.  Two Dutch friends of mine who have solid jobs took six months off and circumnavigated Latin America, mostly by bus.  They got a huge bang for their buck.  Another young couple I know bicycled the length of Vietnam - it was amazing and documented in a blog; afterward they divorced which shocked many.

Get out there!

boarder42

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2016, 04:21:50 AM »
I'd strongly disagree with snack dogs experience. Everyone is unique and lumping everyone into your travel experience isn't really fair analysis. My grand parents traveled til they were physically and mentally unable to my parents are still traveling up to 6 months a year. My wife and I travel over 40 days now mainly limited by time off from work.

arebelspy

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2016, 04:31:46 AM »
Travel can be done cheaply.

It shouldn't derail FIRE goals.

From my "Hit FI" thread (link is in the first post of the thread in my sig):
Quote
We also enjoy travel, so we've done plenty of that along the way, including such lavish trips as (all of the below are separate trips):
- Over 2 months backpacking through Europe
- A week in Barbados
- A week in Loreto Bay, Mexico
- Many trips to Southern California to see my in-laws (at least 4x per year, approximately 20-25 trips) and Seattle to see my family (at least once or twice per year, approximately 8-10 trips)
- A week cruise out of Miami to St. Lucia, St. Kitts, and St. Maarten
- A week in Athens, Greece (separate from Europe backpacking trip)
- A week in NYC/CT
- 3-4 days in Boston
- Trip to WA peninsula to go to the beach/rain forest
- I also individually (without the wife) did quite a bit of traveling for a hobby (Texas several times, New Jersey, Philly, Chicago a few times, Indianapolis, etc. - probably another 11 individual weekend trips to cities in the U.S. for just myself)

Most (all?) of those were done quite frugally, with deals, special promotions, whatever. 

That was posted in April 2013.  There were more trips between then and when we ER'd in June 2015, so that's not a complete list of our travels while working.  And, of course, we're full time travelers/nomads now, without a home base, just our possessions on our backs.

Learn to do travel cheap, and do one big trip a year (big not in terms of cost, but length.. at least a week, maybe two--basically not just a weekend jaunt), maybe two, and then littler small trips.  Until you FIRE, and travel all the time.  :)

That's the ideal scenario if you're FIREing pretty young, say 30 or 35, IMO.

If your FIRE is way far out, I'd first look at how to push it in.  If you can't, I'd consider doing sabbaticals along the way and such to travel, but otherwise I think travel can be worked in without something more drastic like that.

But if you aren't gonna FIRE til 45, looking at how to move that to 35 is the first thing to do, IMO.  Travel can be a huge benefit to that, post-FIRE, due to being able to do it so cheaply, you can save up a good chunk of your ER stache, then go live on a super low WR for the first few years while traveling to let the stache build up on its own (and in the meantime supplement with side gigs if you so desire--if you can travel on like 20k/yr, and travel hack 5k of that, and earn the other 15k through simple online side gigs or something, the stache can sit untouched and grow to your final number).
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
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Bicycle_B

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2016, 07:06:24 AM »
Look up the term "travel hacking" that Arebelspy mentioned.  You can do a lot of trips for a fraction (maybe 25%) of what typical people pay, just by learning thrifty techniques.  Then the trade-off is more about finding the time, you don't have to divert much money from your investing plans.  At least if you keep working somehow.

TheTravelChica is an example of someone who kept working while focusing her life on travel.  She is a trainer in computer skills but established an independent practice so she could be flexible in following her travel bug (though she did several years of full time work at a company before she was able to do that).  IMHO how you do the work thing depends on your skills and profession, to the extent you have them.  Usually if you look, there's a way to keep a hand in both worlds.  I suggest devising plans that include viable frequent or consistent work as well as travel. 

Search tip:  this site has many travel examples and I think some travel hacking threads but it's hard to search.  Recommended search technique is Google, for example search term "site: mrmoneymustache.com travel hacking".  The "site: " component focuses Google on just the specific website mentioned, but of course there are other sites about travel hacking too.

For additional perspective, Jim Collins' remarks on travel and money are terrific.  He started travel at your age if not sooner, combined work and travel and family, was responsible and became wealthy. 
http://jlcollinsnh.com/2012/01/27/travels-with-esperando-un-camino/
http://jlcollinsnh.com/

One last thought:  Consider a 50% rule as your family work/travel standard.  Namely, you can do ANY TRAVEL PLAN YOU WANT as long as you can show that, including your travel, you are saving at least 50% of post-tax income overall.  Start from the day you became debt free; if your plan involves mini-retirements (leaving a job for a time), include fair provision for renewed job searching; save money, plan travel, do travel.  As much as you want as soon as you can.  Because 17 years of saving 50% will make you financially independent (see 4% rule).

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need-for-retirement/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 07:28:04 AM by Bicycle_B »

Metric Mouse

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2016, 11:11:24 PM »
I'd strongly disagree with snack dogs experience. Everyone is unique and lumping everyone into your travel experience isn't really fair analysis. My grand parents traveled til they were physically and mentally unable to my parents are still traveling up to 6 months a year. My wife and I travel over 40 days now mainly limited by time off from work.

I see snackdog's point - did your grandparents travel in the same way a broke twenty-year old would?  At some point one's priorities can shift from just travelling as cheaply as possible to as many places as possible.

lavender_

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2016, 06:48:06 PM »
Okay, this leads to more questions:
What kind of savings is this 33k + 3.5k in?
Have you begun funding any retirement accounts yet?
Do you have any other debt?

Next:
Where do you want to go?
For how long?
How much do you think that will cost?
Have you looked into any work/travel programs in the places you'd like to go?
How long are you willing to wait?

I'm not trying to discourage you in any way, just trying to formulate a more helpful answer.

Our savings is just in a regular savings account with my bank, earning an embarrassingly low interest rate. The mutual fund is through Vanguard - VBINX. We have no debt and, as of yet, no retirement accounts.

As far as where we want to go, Latin America is what we have in mind. I've traveled that area quite a bit already, and was thrilled/relieved to find that my now-husband also fell in love with it when we spent 10 days in Mexico in May 2015. Heading back to Mexico is the top priority right now. Iceland is a close second, but for cost reasons, we're willing to put that one off a bit.

How long: we're thinking 1-2 years, and we would like to go in late January/early February of next year. This sounds soon, but we've had this vague plan in our minds for a year and a half now. When we went to Mexico last year, it cost $700 total per person, including airfare. $330 was the cost of the round trip flight, and the other $370 covered literally everything else - activities, transportation, lodging, meals,  etc. for 10 days, and this was all when we were in a "vacation" mindset that had us indulging more than we normally would at home. So, while I'm not sure how much a longer trip would cost (as the circumstances would likely be different), it's safe to say that it would be cheaper than it is where we currently live.

I would absolutely be willing to look into working abroad options, as we much prefer staying in the same place for a while over steadily living out of a backpack. I suppose our ideal scenario would be to pick up and move every couple of months or so, but we wouldn't be opposed to a longer stint if the situation was right. I'm starting to look into that working holiday visa option several of you have suggested. That sounds ideal! Otherwise, I've worked freelance as a translator and editor in the past and could likely do so again. I've been at my current job for two years, and although I've gained a lot of great experience there, it's a dead end job. As my husband can work from anywhere, right now seems the best time for us to make this move. Reading through this thread, and reflecting on our own values, it's sounding like working while abroad may be essential in order to have the experiences we crave while not completely sacrificing our financial goals.

boarder42

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2016, 06:56:50 AM »
Okay, this leads to more questions:
What kind of savings is this 33k + 3.5k in?
Have you begun funding any retirement accounts yet?
Do you have any other debt?

Next:
Where do you want to go?
For how long?
How much do you think that will cost?
Have you looked into any work/travel programs in the places you'd like to go?
How long are you willing to wait?

I'm not trying to discourage you in any way, just trying to formulate a more helpful answer.

Our savings is just in a regular savings account with my bank, earning an embarrassingly low interest rate. The mutual fund is through Vanguard - VBINX. We have no debt and, as of yet, no retirement accounts.

As far as where we want to go, Latin America is what we have in mind. I've traveled that area quite a bit already, and was thrilled/relieved to find that my now-husband also fell in love with it when we spent 10 days in Mexico in May 2015. Heading back to Mexico is the top priority right now. Iceland is a close second, but for cost reasons, we're willing to put that one off a bit.

How long: we're thinking 1-2 years, and we would like to go in late January/early February of next year. This sounds soon, but we've had this vague plan in our minds for a year and a half now. When we went to Mexico last year, it cost $700 total per person, including airfare. $330 was the cost of the round trip flight, and the other $370 covered literally everything else - activities, transportation, lodging, meals,  etc. for 10 days, and this was all when we were in a "vacation" mindset that had us indulging more than we normally would at home. So, while I'm not sure how much a longer trip would cost (as the circumstances would likely be different), it's safe to say that it would be cheaper than it is where we currently live.

I would absolutely be willing to look into working abroad options, as we much prefer staying in the same place for a while over steadily living out of a backpack. I suppose our ideal scenario would be to pick up and move every couple of months or so, but we wouldn't be opposed to a longer stint if the situation was right. I'm starting to look into that working holiday visa option several of you have suggested. That sounds ideal! Otherwise, I've worked freelance as a translator and editor in the past and could likely do so again. I've been at my current job for two years, and although I've gained a lot of great experience there, it's a dead end job. As my husband can work from anywhere, right now seems the best time for us to make this move. Reading through this thread, and reflecting on our own values, it's sounding like working while abroad may be essential in order to have the experiences we crave while not completely sacrificing our financial goals.

i think you're currently focusing your energy in the wrong direction.  you have a lot of things to sort out with you plan to become FIRE.  figuring out how and where travel fits in is part of that but a majority of savings in a savings account and more in a really risk averse fund at vanguard is a really poor use of dollars you've saved.

ender

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2016, 07:25:22 AM »
Thank you all for your advice and for sharing your experiences. My biggest worry, more than the prospect of delaying FIRE by traveling, is regretting not traveling - as a few of you mention. But it'd certainly be preferable for these not to be mutually exclusive.

limeandpepper, you mentioned waiting to travel until you were comfortable with what you had in savings. Can I ask what your threshold was for feeling comfortable? If that's too prying a question, I'll reframe it and say that my husband and I have about $33k in savings and another $3,500 in a mutual fund. We have no debt. Is this a reasonable amount to feel comfortable on? If the goal is to travel (cheaply) for a year or two, most likely working a bit, and to not start from nothing upon our return home. I realize this is something of a loaded question as everyone's lifestyle is different, but I appreciate any perspectives.

Oh, and thank you for the welcome - I've been a reader for so many years that I don't feel new, but I suppose this is my first real appearance. :)

The biggest question is what your income and savings rates are.

I don't know if you and your spouse graduated at 21 with no debt and have combined for about $35k worth of savings in 3+ years or if that's all from January of this year.

Whether you can do travel/FIRE depends on a few things:

  • How expensive your travel actually costs to you (travel hacking, etc)
  • What your income/expenses are normally

Just this year I will accumulate about 250k points which I can use for traveling for around $500 ($0 if you include additional benefit I plan on receiving in 2017). That's an insane amount of travel for almost nothing - it's two round trip flights to Europe and Hawaii and it's only from normal spend on credit cards, towards their bonus periods. And I didn't even really optimize for miles, I'm optimizing for cash back.

Getting this many points is fairly trivial. The total "minimum spend" requirements will be around $11k, which we fairly naturally have done.

Cassie

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2016, 01:43:15 PM »
My son traveled a lot in his 20's and then in his 30's with his wife. They do it frugally. It did set them back financially but now in their early 40's they have been to a ton of places and are not sorry.  I had a family young so never traveled at all until my 40's and now at 62 we re traveling more because you don't know how much healthy time you have left.  Most people do travel differently and more expensively when older due to aches/pains/desire for comfort, etc.  It sounds like you have enough $ to travel frugally for 6 months-1 year without spending all your $.

lavender_

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2016, 03:50:23 PM »
I don't disagree with boarder42's point about our money being allocated poorly, although I don't regret choosing VBINX. I researched the options a great deal before choosing that one, and although the potential for gains is lower compared to some other options, I wasn't willing to take on any more risk. At the time, $3000 felt like such a large percentage of my total savings that I didn't feel comfortable taking much of a gamble with it. I agree that we likely ought to look into investing more now - but my reservation with that is being unsure whether we will need that money in the near-ish future for another purpose. If we were to not use it for traveling, we would probably use it for a down payment on a house, and ~$35k isn't so much that we could invest much and also do that (unless you consider the house itself the investment). Either way, in my mind, our money is already tied up in one way or another such that I would have no idea how much could be reasonably allocated elsewhere. Am I conceptualizing this all wrong? I'll admit that figuring out how much to invest has been something I've always been fuzzy on.

Basically, I'm considering investing as secondary to these other matters (i.e., use money for travel and/or house, invest whatever's left down the road when the situation is clearer), but perhaps that's the reverse of what we should be doing.

Goldielocks

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2016, 12:55:08 AM »
If you can put away twenty thousand now, for long term retirement, then travel, that would be ideal, because of the compounding and long time horizion...


boarder42

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2016, 06:45:16 AM »
you seem weary of the equities market ... have you read JLcollins stock series. 

and the power of compounding is very valuable. your money doubles every 10 years at 7% return.  and thats huge. 

http://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/


SilveradoBojangles

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Re: Travel and FIRE: Conflicting Goals?
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2016, 11:29:29 AM »
I don't regret the extensive travel I did in my 20s. I had amazing experiences, and made some of my best friends, and was able to do it in a way that actually furthered my career goals (via a lot of volunteering, working as a research assistant, and later as a grad student) and didn't accrue any debt. That period of life taught me how to be frugal, and how to be happy with less, which has been essential for implementing a massive savings strategy now that I am actually making money. And frankly, it's unlikely that I would have made a ton of money in my 20s without an advanced degree in my field (marine biology). So for me, traveling early was the right choice. Also, I will say that we've still been able to travel internationally at least 1 month a year (plus lots of domestic side trips to see friends and family) in the last few years because we have flexible work schedules. Our spending is higher because of this (36K a year in a HCOL area, instead of about 24K a year), but it is sooooo worth it in our opinion. And we are still on track to save over 50K this year, so I'm ok with it.