The ongoing problem of Nazis in America, past and present

[Fru-Gal]

We thought Nazis were thoroughly trounced after WWII, discredited and relegated to fringe supremacy groups.

However, with two angry Sieg Heil salutes at the presidential inauguration, Elon Musk brought Nazis back into the forefront of the world’s attention.

He said the following on Rogan’s podcast last week:

[says DOGE did not fire ATCs, blames DEI for lack of personnel]

ELON MUSK: Yes. A lot of really qualified air traffic controllers were pushed out because of DEI stuff. To be blunt, a bunch of really good, talented, old white guys were pushed out. It’s not cool. And so we have a talent shortage in air traffic control because of DEI and not hiring people on merit.

[Denies being a Nazi many times throughout the podcast. Much later in the podcast, explains what’s truly bad about Nazis]

ELON MUSK: I mean, what’s relevant about Nazis is, are you invading Poland? And if you’re not, maybe you’re not. You have to be committing genocide and starting wars. What is actually bad about Nazis? It wasn’t their fashion sense or their mannerisms. It was the war and genocide—that’s the bad part. Not their mannerisms and their dress code.

Note, the DEI claim is a lie — FAA requires ATCs to retire at 56. So that’s what happened to the “old white guys”. He could have talked about problems with that policy instead of dog whistling.

[Fru-Gal]

More on the history of Nazis in USA:

Operation Paperclip gave asylum to Nazi rocket scientist Werner von Braun, father of the US space program.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

The Hidden Nazi: The Untold Story of America's Deal with the Devil is a 2019 book about Kammler, von Braun’s boss.

He’s the worst Nazi war criminal you’ve never heard of

Sidekick to SS Chief Heinrich Himmler and supervisor of Nazi rocket scientist Wernher von Braun, General Hans Kammler was responsible for the construction of Hitler’s slave labor sites and concentration camps. He personally altered the design of Auschwitz to increase crowding, ensuring that epidemic diseases would complement the work of the gas chambers.

Why has the world forgotten this monster? Kammler was declared dead after the war. But the aide who testified to Kammler’s supposed “suicide” never produced the general’s dog tags or any other proof of death.

Dean Reuter, Colm Lowery, and Keith Chester have spent decades on the trail of the elusive Kammler, uncovering documents unseen since the 1940s and visiting the purported site of Kammler’s death, now in the Czech Republic.

Their astonishing discovery: US government documents prove that Hans Kammler was in American custody for months after the war—well after his officially declared suicide.

And what happened to him after that? Kammler was kept out of public view, never indicted or tried, but to what end? Did he cooperate with Nuremberg prosecutors investigating Nazi war crimes? Was he protected so the United States could benefit from his intimate knowledge of the Nazi rocket program and Germany’s secret weapons?

[Fru-Gal]

More on Nazis in the current administration: Peter Thiel, Elon Musk’s and JD Vance’s handler, has strong Nazi influence in his German/South African upbringing.

https://www.democracynow.org/2025/2/10/elon_musk_doge_south_africa_apartheid

Who are the PayPal mafia, and how are they linked to apartheid-era South Africa?

CHRIS McGREAL: Well, they’re a group of men who were at the top, the founding of PayPal, all of whom, in some way or other, grew up in South Africa as children. You’ve got Musk himself, who was born in South Africa and lived there, went to high school there ’til he was 18, and then moves to Canada.

You’ve got Peter Thiel, who was a co-founder with Musk of PayPal. Thiel was born in Germany but brought to South Africa as a young child. His father was a mining engineer, lived in Johannesburg and then moved to South West Africa, which was then a South African colony, is now Namibia. And he went to school in Swakopmund, which was notorious as probably the last place on the planet where people still openly greeted each other with “Heil Hitler” and celebrated Hitler’s birthday. He went to a German school there before moving to the United States when he was 10 or 11.

You’ve got David Sacks, who was born in Cape Town. He was big in PayPal and is now Trump’s AI and crypto czar. He moved to Tennessee as a relatively young child but grew up in the white South African diaspora there.

And you’ve got Roelof Botha, who is the son of Pik Botha — sorry, the grandson of Pik Botha, the last foreign minister of apartheid South Africa. He was the acceptable face of apartheid. You will remember, he used to run around the United States trying to put a gloss on how they were reforming things and that everything was getting better, which apparently it wasn’t.

But, so, you see those four key people at the top of PayPal, and they all have this very intimate connection to South Africa.

[Fru-Gal]

While it’s fair to believe that children of Nazi and/or apartheid-raised parents have rejected such beliefs, it’s useful to contrast their denials and actions with another Republican politician whose father was a Nazi: Arnold Schwarzenegger.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arnold-schwarzenegger-video-antisemitism-hate-loser-nazi-father/

"I don't know the road that has brought you here, but I've seen enough people throw away their futures for hateful beliefs," he said in the video. "So I want to speak with you before you find your regrets at the end of that path."

Schwarzenegger pointed to his father, Gustav Schwarzenegger, who, he has said in the past was a Nazi soldier and part of the siege of Leningrad in World War II that famously lasted nearly 900 days. His father, he said, was one of the "broken men" after the war who were "riddled with guilt."

[NorCal]

While it’s fair to believe that children of Nazi and/or apartheid-raised parents have rejected such beliefs, it’s useful to contrast their denials and actions with another Republican politician whose father was a Nazi: Arnold Schwarzenegger.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arnold-schwarzenegger-video-antisemitism-hate-loser-nazi-father/

"I don't know the road that has brought you here, but I've seen enough people throw away their futures for hateful beliefs," he said in the video. "So I want to speak with you before you find your regrets at the end of that path."

Schwarzenegger pointed to his father, Gustav Schwarzenegger, who, he has said in the past was a Nazi soldier and part of the siege of Leningrad in World War II that famously lasted nearly 900 days. His father, he said, was one of the "broken men" after the war who were "riddled with guilt."

I've always respected Schwarzenegger.  It was easy to be a Republican in California when he was the type of Republican we were voting for. 

[Fru-Gal]

While it’s fair to believe that children of Nazi and/or apartheid-raised parents have rejected such beliefs, it’s useful to contrast their denials and actions with another Republican politician whose father was a Nazi: Arnold Schwarzenegger.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arnold-schwarzenegger-video-antisemitism-hate-loser-nazi-father/

"I don't know the road that has brought you here, but I've seen enough people throw away their futures for hateful beliefs," he said in the video. "So I want to speak with you before you find your regrets at the end of that path."

Schwarzenegger pointed to his father, Gustav Schwarzenegger, who, he has said in the past was a Nazi soldier and part of the siege of Leningrad in World War II that famously lasted nearly 900 days. His father, he said, was one of the "broken men" after the war who were "riddled with guilt."

I've always respected Schwarzenegger.  It was easy to be a Republican in California when he was the type of Republican we were voting for.

Yeah, and Elon really is “throwing away his future” with his impulsivity and trolling.

[twinstudy]

Not really sure why Elon is peddling his beliefs but the groundswell in support for fascism comes from all the men out there feeling insecure about their shitty lives. They always look for someone to blame and Trump foments that.

[MustacheAndaHalf]

We thought Nazis were thoroughly trounced after WWII, discredited and relegated to fringe supremacy groups.

However, with two angry Sieg Heil salutes at the presidential inauguration, Elon Musk brought Nazis back into the forefront of the world’s attention.

He said the following on Rogan’s podcast last week:
...

Musk denies that he made a Nazi salute:

[12:10]
Musk: "It's deliberate propaganda.  They know it was obviously not meant in a negative way.  I literally said "my heart goes out to you" and it was very positive.  The entire speech was very positive.  I was being very enthusiastic about the future in space."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSOxPJD-VNo&t=730s

Note, the DEI claim is a lie — FAA requires ATCs to retire at 56. So that’s what happened to the “old white guys”. He could have talked about problems with that policy instead of dog whistling.

"FAA embroiled in lawsuit alleging it turned away 1,000 applicants based on race — that contributed to staffing woes"
https://www.aol.com/faa-embroiled-lawsuit-alleging-turned-145209229.html

[FrugalToque]

Musk denies that he made a Nazi salute:

[12:10]
Musk: "It's deliberate propaganda.  They know it was obviously not meant in a negative way.  I literally said "my heart goes out to you" and it was very positive.  The entire speech was very positive.  I was being very enthusiastic about the future in space."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSOxPJD-VNo&t=730s

My issue with this denial is
a) he was raised in apartheid South Africa and knows very well what racism is, how it works etc.
b) he attended Queen's University in Ontario, Canada, well known for its history of anti-racism and anti-sexism
c) he attended the University of Pennsylvania
d) he was accepted at Stanford but apparently never went.


And, with all that education and awareness, he had no idea what he was doing with salute?


But that's not even the main thing.


What does he do afterwards? He goes after "DEI" which means getting rid of every programme which gave non-white, non-men equal footing in applying for jobs, while he's pretending that DEI means "reverse discrimination". He works for Trump, a clear racist since red-lining and the Central Park Five.  They fire the sole woman and sole black man on the Joint Chiefs.


So whether you think the salute was a salute or you believe his nonsense excuse, the actions he took afterwards clearly tell you where his mind is.


Toque.

[DoubleDown]

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And to add to that list, let's not forget just before giving his "salute," Musk openly embracing and endorsing the far-right wing AfD party in Germany, which is barely veiled as a neo-nazi party.

I find this related video to be hilarious:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5H4ZaEve3I

[DoubleDown]

Not to continue too much with my "Trump is the final Antichrist" rant, but the emergence of the USA as a "fourth Roman Reich" (Nazi Germany, of course, being the self-declared Third Roman Reich), is viewed as a key part of prophetic fulfillment by those espousing the belief that Trump is the Antichrist. The US was founded upon Roman ideals, architecture, symbolism, form of government, etc. Hitler is viewed as the "seventh king (horn)", following Julius Caesar and other tyrants through history, and Trump is the 8th and final king (the "little horn" that came from the seven). Coincidentally (or not), a "little horn" is known in the Bible as a small trumpet, or "trump!"

So, the Antichrist arising out of the USA, with all its immense power and ties to Roman history, makes sense if you believe in this stuff. As someone who was a very patriotic American and believed strongly in this country, it's difficult to see what we've become. That's true even if you don't believe the religious angle.

[GuitarStv]

We thought Nazis were thoroughly trounced after WWII, discredited and relegated to fringe supremacy groups.

However, with two angry Sieg Heil salutes at the presidential inauguration, Elon Musk brought Nazis back into the forefront of the world’s attention.

He said the following on Rogan’s podcast last week:
...

Musk denies that he made a Nazi salute:

[12:10]
Musk: "It's deliberate propaganda.  They know it was obviously not meant in a negative way.  I literally said "my heart goes out to you" and it was very positive.  The entire speech was very positive.  I was being very enthusiastic about the future in space."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSOxPJD-VNo&t=730s

Yeah, gaslighting continues to be strong with the Republican party.  That claim doesn't match up with reality at all.  Here's Musk in context where he made a clear Nazi salute twice is starting around 1:10 or so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crr7j0udrc4&ab_channel=NBCChicago
Also, the speech wasn't about space, it was about buying a win in the presidential election.  Musk didn't talk about space at all before the Nazi salute.  A little afterwards he has two throwaway lines about space, one saying that he's going to take DOGE to Mars and one saying that he'll plant the US flag on Mars.

Now compare it to Musk actually making a 'My heart goes out to you' gesture to crowds during a different public appearance:
https://packaged-media.redd.it/fopfg10hgsee1/pb/m2-res_850p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1741284000&s=937017ee1785b407a54bc42a26e7da6e45c64b01

What was the difference between the two?  The crowd I guess.  He wasn't trying to impress Nazis in the non-controversial clip.

[dividendman]

Musk may well be a Nazi. Trump might be a racist... but they got more minority votes total and as a % than any Republican in recent history, and by a lot. So... even minorities like racist Nazis better than what the Republicans had before (Romney, Bush, etc.).

[bacchi]

Musk may well be a Nazi. Trump might be a racist... but they got more minority votes total and as a % than any Republican in recent history, and by a lot. So... even minorities like racist Nazis better than what the Republicans had before (Romney, Bush, etc.).

Or they believed him when he claimed that eggs would go down in price on "Day One!"

People look out for their wallets.

[bacchi]

We thought Nazis were thoroughly trounced after WWII, discredited and relegated to fringe supremacy groups.

However, with two angry Sieg Heil salutes at the presidential inauguration, Elon Musk brought Nazis back into the forefront of the world’s attention.

He said the following on Rogan’s podcast last week:
...

Musk denies that he made a Nazi salute:

[12:10]
Musk: "It's deliberate propaganda.  They know it was obviously not meant in a negative way.  I literally said "my heart goes out to you" and it was very positive.  The entire speech was very positive.  I was being very enthusiastic about the future in space."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSOxPJD-VNo&t=730s

Yeah, gaslighting continues to be strong with the Republican party.  That claim doesn't match up with reality at all.  Here's Musk in context where he made a clear Nazi salute twice is starting around 1:10 or so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crr7j0udrc4&ab_channel=NBCChicago
Also, the speech wasn't about space, it was about buying a win in the presidential election.  Musk didn't talk about space at all before the Nazi salute.  A little afterwards he has two throwaway lines about space, one saying that he's going to take DOGE to Mars and one saying that he'll plant the US flag on Mars.

Now compare it to Musk actually making a 'My heart goes out to you' gesture to crowds during a different public appearance:
https://packaged-media.redd.it/fopfg10hgsee1/pb/m2-res_850p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1741284000&s=937017ee1785b407a54bc42a26e7da6e45c64b01

What was the difference between the two?  The crowd I guess.  He wasn't trying to impress Nazis in the non-controversial clip.

Nick Fuentes, self identified Christian nationalist, on Musk's salute:

https://youtu.be/oSj1CU82hcI?t=16

Who am I to disagree with a Holocaust denier and Hitler fan on what is and isn't a Nazi salute?

[MustacheAndaHalf]

We thought Nazis were thoroughly trounced after WWII, discredited and relegated to fringe supremacy groups.

However, with two angry Sieg Heil salutes at the presidential inauguration, Elon Musk brought Nazis back into the forefront of the world’s attention.

He said the following on Rogan’s podcast last week:
...

Musk denies that he made a Nazi salute:

[12:10]
Musk: "It's deliberate propaganda.  They know it was obviously not meant in a negative way.  I literally said "my heart goes out to you" and it was very positive.  The entire speech was very positive.  I was being very enthusiastic about the future in space."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSOxPJD-VNo&t=730s

Yeah, gaslighting continues to be strong with the Republican party.  That claim doesn't match up with reality at all.  Here's Musk in context where he made a clear Nazi salute twice is starting around 1:10 or so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crr7j0udrc4&ab_channel=NBCChicago
Also, the speech wasn't about space, it was about buying a win in the presidential election.  Musk didn't talk about space at all before the Nazi salute.  A little afterwards he has two throwaway lines about space, one saying that he's going to take DOGE to Mars and one saying that he'll plant the US flag on Mars.

Now compare it to Musk actually making a 'My heart goes out to you' gesture to crowds during a different public appearance:
https://packaged-media.redd.it/fopfg10hgsee1/pb/m2-res_850p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1741284000&s=937017ee1785b407a54bc42a26e7da6e45c64b01

What was the difference between the two?  The crowd I guess.  He wasn't trying to impress Nazis in the non-controversial clip.

Your description is accurate - I think Elon Musk was recalling the remainder of his speech, where he talks about American astronauts planting the flag on Mars for the first time.  Here is the comments he made before and after his gesture/salute:


"This election really mattered.  And I just wanted to say 'thank you' for making it happen."
(gesture we're debating)
"My heart goes out to you."

Here was the Jewish Anti-Defamation League's comment:

This is a delicate moment. It’s a new day and yet so many are on edge. Our politics are inflamed, and social media only adds to the anxiety.

It seems that @elonmusk made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute, but again, we appreciate that people are on edge.

In this moment, all sides should give one another a bit of grace, perhaps even the benefit of the doubt, and take a breath. This is a new beginning. Let’s hope for healing and work toward unity in the months and years ahead.

https://x.com/ADL/status/1881474892022919403

Watching the video, Musk makes various awkward gestures.  I'm inclined to agree, although I understand those not giving Musk the benefit of the doubt (or "a bit of grace") won't.

[Fru-Gal]

Nazis are no longer *exclusively* anti-Jewish, that much is obvious. ADL defends a Nazi salute, Trump adviser Stephen Miller is a Jewish white supremacist/neo-Nazi. Trump's daughter and son-in-law are Jewish (and corrupt, but not apparently Nazis). Trump quotes and admires Hitler. Netanyahu and Israel are Trump's best buds while locked in a genocidal conflict with Palestine. Elon's comments on Rogan implying that we shouldn't reject Nazi culture, only Nazi actions, is reminiscent of a talk he gave to AfD where he implied that Nazis should be rehabilitated and move on from their past (while remaining Nazis).

[GuitarStv]

We thought Nazis were thoroughly trounced after WWII, discredited and relegated to fringe supremacy groups.

However, with two angry Sieg Heil salutes at the presidential inauguration, Elon Musk brought Nazis back into the forefront of the world’s attention.

He said the following on Rogan’s podcast last week:
...

Musk denies that he made a Nazi salute:

[12:10]
Musk: "It's deliberate propaganda.  They know it was obviously not meant in a negative way.  I literally said "my heart goes out to you" and it was very positive.  The entire speech was very positive.  I was being very enthusiastic about the future in space."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSOxPJD-VNo&t=730s

Yeah, gaslighting continues to be strong with the Republican party.  That claim doesn't match up with reality at all.  Here's Musk in context where he made a clear Nazi salute twice is starting around 1:10 or so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crr7j0udrc4&ab_channel=NBCChicago
Also, the speech wasn't about space, it was about buying a win in the presidential election.  Musk didn't talk about space at all before the Nazi salute.  A little afterwards he has two throwaway lines about space, one saying that he's going to take DOGE to Mars and one saying that he'll plant the US flag on Mars.

Now compare it to Musk actually making a 'My heart goes out to you' gesture to crowds during a different public appearance:
https://packaged-media.redd.it/fopfg10hgsee1/pb/m2-res_850p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1741284000&s=937017ee1785b407a54bc42a26e7da6e45c64b01

What was the difference between the two?  The crowd I guess.  He wasn't trying to impress Nazis in the non-controversial clip.

Your description is accurate - I think Elon Musk was recalling the remainder of his speech, where he talks about American astronauts planting the flag on Mars for the first time.  Here is the comments he made before and after his gesture/salute:


"This election really mattered.  And I just wanted to say 'thank you' for making it happen."
(gesture we're debating)
"My heart goes out to you."

Here was the Jewish Anti-Defamation League's comment:

This is a delicate moment. It’s a new day and yet so many are on edge. Our politics are inflamed, and social media only adds to the anxiety.

It seems that @elonmusk made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute, but again, we appreciate that people are on edge.

In this moment, all sides should give one another a bit of grace, perhaps even the benefit of the doubt, and take a breath. This is a new beginning. Let’s hope for healing and work toward unity in the months and years ahead.

https://x.com/ADL/status/1881474892022919403

Watching the video, Musk makes various awkward gestures.  I'm inclined to agree, although I understand those not giving Musk the benefit of the doubt (or "a bit of grace") won't.

Yeah, the Anti-Defamation League really bent itself over backwards to excuse Musk's behaviour.  Musk and Trump have both been very vocal supporters of Israel recently, and my suspicion is that this was related (an intended as a show of good will).


Also from the Anti-Defamation League:

Nazi Salute

The Nazi or Hitler salute debuted in Nazi Germany in the 1930s as a way to pay homage to Adolf Hitler. It consists of raising an outstretched right arm with the palm down. In Nazi Germany, it was often accompanied by chanting or shouting "Heil Hitler" or "Sieg Heil." Since World War II, neo-Nazis and other white supremacists have continued to use the salute, making it the most common white supremacist hand sign in the world.

- https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/hitler-salute-hand-sign


A couple days later:

Don’t say Hess to Nazi accusations!

Some people will Goebbels anything down!

Stop Gőring your enemies!

His pronouns would’ve been He/Himmler!

Bet you did nazi that coming

- https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1882406209187409976


That didn't go over as hilariously with the ADL as you would have thought, and the head of the ADL had to gently remind Musk that the Holocaust is not as funny as he thinks it was.

[twinstudy]

Musk may well be a Nazi. Trump might be a racist... but they got more minority votes total and as a % than any Republican in recent history, and by a lot. So... even minorities like racist Nazis better than what the Republicans had before (Romney, Bush, etc.).

Probably because if you tell someone who's struggling that his struggles are due to 'the other' and not due to his own failings (or bad government policy) then that person will eagerly snap up what you're selling.

[Fru-Gal]

Apparently an Israeli 12th grader (high school) student was just arrested and fined for doing a Nazi salute at Auschwitz.

Comments point out that had he been any other nationality, there would be an uproar. But because he’s Israeli, he was just “being edgy”.

[RetiredAt63]

Apparently an Israeli 12th grader (high school) student was just arrested and fined for doing a Nazi salute at Auschwitz.

Comments point out that had he been any other nationality, there would be an uproar. But because he’s Israeli, he was just “being edgy”.

So edgy is now spelled "asshole"?

I hope he gets major consequences when he gets home

It's as if my DD who lost 2 great grandparents to the Spanish flu turned antivaxxer (don't worry, she hasn't).  But much much worse.

[Fru-Gal]

I have been listening to an excellent podcast called Patterns Tell Stories and one of their ongoing themes is Nazis throughout our history of technology. This podcast is ostensibly about UFO disclosure ( with what I think is healthy skepticism) but gets into some wonderful detail around various US government cover ups and conspiracies. The connections between Nazi money and venture capital are also explored. It’s insane.

[blue_green_sparks]

I just saw a video where a guy wore a shirt with Nazi SS symbols to a punk concert in Vegas. Turned out to be a poor choice as he got knocked down and punched in the face. Went down like a bowling pin when shoved. I recall there was a group of skinhead punks that actually were neo-Nazis back in the 70's/80's, but I don't hear much about that anymore. Maybe this guy thought there would be a bunch of Nazis there or something, given the current political clown-show.

[GuitarStv]

I just saw a video where a guy wore a shirt with Nazi SS symbols to a punk concert in Vegas. Turned out to be a poor choice as he got knocked down and punched in the face. Went down like a bowling pin when shoved. I recall there was a group of skinhead punks that actually were neo-Nazis back in the 70's/80's, but I don't hear much about that anymore. Maybe this guy thought there would be a bunch of Nazis there or something, given the current political clown-show.

Yeah, he should have just gone straight to the source in Washington.

[Just Joe]

I can just hear him now - all these people are just picking on me for no reason at all... Prob all leftists!