Author Topic: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!  (Read 11724 times)

Jack

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I was reading Syonyk's blog and ran across this post about Tesla's hostility towards owner repairs. This is wholly unethical and evil. (It also ought to be illegal. If it doesn't violate the Clean Air Act as it relates to ODBII and the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act -- and maybe other parts of the Uniform Commerical code -- then at least it comes damned close. Otherwise, we really need some laws against it!) I used to think Teslas were cool but expensive, but now I would refuse to "own" one (in scare quotes because ownership is effectively impossible) even if somebody gave one to me for free!

I even used to think Tesla as a company was good about "IP" issues due to this, but apparently they're nothing more than fucking hypocrites. Shame on you, Elon Musk.



Even worse, this is only an example of a larger issue: ownership is being attacked on many fronts, from cars to smartphones to video game consoles to light bulbs -- anything with a computer chip in it. Patent and copyright holders are doing their damnedest to turn us all into the digital equivalent of serfs. This bullshit has to stop!

SuperSecretName

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2016, 01:07:24 PM »
sweet melt brah

Yaeger

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2016, 01:11:30 PM »
Typical, I think it's reprehensible that you think we need more laws to control their 'bad' behavior.

Vote with your dollars, don't buy their product. /shrug

Jack

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2016, 01:25:57 PM »
Typical, I think it's reprehensible that you think we need more laws to control their 'bad' behavior.

Words have meanings. If "owning" something no longer means actually having complete control over it, then the concept of private property is destroyed and all Hell breaks loose. I would figure a libertarian would understand that better than most.

Daley

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2016, 01:45:12 PM »
Words have meanings. If "owning" something no longer means actually having complete control over it, then the concept of private property is destroyed and all Hell breaks loose. I would figure a libertarian would understand that better than most.

You're quite right, but you'll find most people just don't give a crap... especially the ones who shout the loudest about "freedom". Even here. Especially here.

Unfortunately, voting with your wallet is ethically wise, but the tide is against us because we're financially outnumbered. It's fighting a losing battle, and greater regulation is unfortunately inescapable and necessary to slow this entropy because selfishness always finds loopholes to exploit... but it'll never solve the root problem. It only delays the inevitable.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 01:50:23 PM by I.P. Daley »

ketchup

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2016, 01:55:32 PM »
Wow, that's depressing.

If in 20 years, I can't buy a beat up 2013 Model S and poke around with it without getting locked out, that's just silly.

It's a cool piece of technology, but if they don't loosen up (at least with old stuff as it ages), then I won't be as interested as I thought down the line.

I've never brought a car to a dealer for service once in my life and have no intentions of changes that.  So much of the appeal of an EV is low maintenance and simple mechanics.  With expensive proprietary arbitrary bullshit, that completely breaks.

Alright, now who wants to develop an open source EV with me?

I'm a red panda

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2016, 01:58:48 PM »
Typical, I think it's reprehensible that you think we need more laws to control their 'bad' behavior.

Words have meanings. If "owning" something no longer means actually having complete control over it, then the concept of private property is destroyed and all Hell breaks loose. I would figure a libertarian would understand that better than most.

This seems to be the way a lot of things are going.  Video games, music, movies, books.  No one owns property anymore, just a license to it.

RWD

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2016, 02:10:34 PM »
Alright, now who wants to develop an open source EV with me?
Looks like there's already a project:
https://www.osvehicle.com/

mrpercentage

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2016, 05:03:48 PM »
You read one blog and judged the car. Okay. I remember years ago when I had a short stint selling new Fords a lady came in with a Porche and traded it in for an edge because she could no longer afford the maintenance on the Porche. She did this by adding 8,000 on the principle of the Ford to dig herself out of the Porche. It was a Cheyanne I think. A supercharged SUV. I test drove the crap out of it around corners and on the freeway. Not as fun as the Z06 Vet a guy traded in for a GT500 Mustang. What can I say I was in Scottsdale. Still not as fun as the lifted F250 diesel that they had me drive over all the curbs and park up on the sidewalk after running over a bush--- she did make him buy it $700 a month for 7 years. I made $2000. I really didnt like selling cars though. I just like driving them

Yaeger

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2016, 05:50:56 PM »
Typical, I think it's reprehensible that you think we need more laws to control their 'bad' behavior.

Words have meanings. If "owning" something no longer means actually having complete control over it, then the concept of private property is destroyed and all Hell breaks loose. I would figure a libertarian would understand that better than most.

I'd only be upset if they tried to hide this information or deceive you during the purchase, Libertarians support informed consumer decisions. Private property is any property owned by non-government entities, including companies. If they want to sell you the car, but retain certain rights like Service Center only repairs, they're well within their rights to make that a condition of the sale. Besides, I don't think the Tesla police will come knocking down my door if you start tinkering with it.

Libertarians don't really care what two private parties voluntarily agree to.

deadlymonkey

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2016, 08:12:32 AM »
When you buy a Tesla, you are essentially buying the software that makes it work.  Read the EULA, the government has already ruled many times that a company can essentially "rent" you software that you paid for and you have no legal rights to that in perpetuity.  If Tesla (10 years from now) determined that the current models were outdated and no longer wanted to support them, they could legally brick the cars via software and would be within their legal rights.

Jack

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2016, 08:19:52 AM »
I'd only be upset if they tried to hide this information or deceive you during the purchase, Libertarians support informed consumer decisions.

Tesla HAS done that, you dumbass! Go look on Tesla's website and try to find this information (for example, find where they disclose the fact that the ODBII port doesn't work). Also, what would you call restricting access to the service manual only to people in Massachusetts? By any reasonable standard, that is a perfect example of hiding that information from everyone else.

And you know why the repair manuals are available in Massachusetts? It's because their state government passed a law requiring it. That's right, government was required in order to force producers to make the information available, so that informed consumer decisions were possible. In that way, government helps create the free market. Without regulation, it would not exist. Put that in your Libertarian pipe and smoke it!

Besides, I don't think the Tesla police will come knocking down my door if you start tinkering with it.

What they'll do is remotely shut off your car so it doesn't work anymore. To fix that, you'd have to break the computer's encryption (which, if it was competently implemented, would be literally impossible) or rip out the whole computer and start over from scratch.

[MOD EDIT: Forum Rule #1.] 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 09:48:18 AM by arebelspy »

deadlymonkey

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2016, 08:25:28 AM »
I'd only be upset if they tried to hide this information or deceive you during the purchase, Libertarians support informed consumer decisions.

Tesla HAS done that, you dumbass! Go look on Tesla's website and try to find this information (for example, find where they disclose the fact that the ODBII port doesn't work). Also, what would you call restricting access to the service manual only to people in Massachusetts? By any reasonable standard, that is a perfect example of hiding that information from everyone else.

And you know why the repair manuals are available in Massachusetts? It's because their state government passed a law requiring it. That's right, government was required in order to force producers to make the information available, so that informed consumer decisions were possible. In that way, government helps create the free market. Without regulation, it would not exist. Put that in your Libertarian pipe and smoke it!

Besides, I don't think the Tesla police will come knocking down my door if you start tinkering with it.

What they'll do is remotely shut off your car so it doesn't work anymore. To fix that, you'd have to break the computer's encryption (which, if it was competently implemented, would be literally impossible) or rip out the whole computer and start over from scratch.

Just wanted to add, attempting to bypass the computer's encryption system and restart a car that has been disabled by Tesla is a violation for the DMCA and levies heavy fines/prison.  I would not attempt.

bobechs

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2016, 08:42:52 AM »
General Motors, in a scrappy start-up throw-the-rule-book-out-the-window kinda move, 'sold' its first mass-produced electric car, the unlamented EV-1, strictly on the basis of a lease without purchase option.  When it decided the leases were up it took them all back and crushed 'em.

As you might imagine, this created a lot of hate and discontent at the time.  But somehow GM got through it and even remained high enough in government and consumer esteem to be rescued by the cosmic-sized bailout of the giant economic crash of 2008.

I realize this is all ancient history, about as interesting to the modern tech-forward software-centric inhabitant of these forums as a play by play with color commentary of the Cuban Missile Crisis (spoiler: there was no nuclear war).

So, what has it got to do with Tesla?  I'll bet the big brains over there have heard, maybe even remember, the EV-1 quasi-fiasco, recognized that straight-up isn't good enough when dealing with customers and have as best they can wired around the damage before it happens.

My editorial comment is that when GM emerges from the framed  story as a relative paragon of corporate honesty in customer relations, it's a  fairly dark goddamed story.

Jack

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2016, 09:00:16 AM »
When you buy a Tesla, you are essentially buying the software that makes it work.  Read the EULA, the government has already ruled many times that a company can essentially "rent" you software that you paid for and you have no legal rights to that in perpetuity.  If Tesla (10 years from now) determined that the current models were outdated and no longer wanted to support them, they could legally brick the cars via software and would be within their legal rights.

Just wanted to add, attempting to bypass the computer's encryption system and restart a car that has been disabled by Tesla is a violation for the DMCA and levies heavy fines/prison.  I would not attempt.

Yep.

I'll be interested to read Yaeger's take on this issue. If he's ideologically consistent, we would actually agree on the solution (for once). I look forward to finding out whether that's the case, or whether he'll fuck it up and reveal himself to be a gigantic hypocrite.

[MOD EDIT: Forum Rule #1.] 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 09:48:45 AM by arebelspy »

arebelspy

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Re: Teslas are the worst goddamn piece of shit cars in the world!
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2016, 09:49:58 AM »
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