Millennials

[mm1970]

I have a quick Admin Assistant story.

I started helping out a company with accounting and they had a receptionist. They wanted her to take on more office-related responsibilities so they hired me to spend some time training her to use Quickbooks. We basically added one task per week for her to learn, and it didn't take long for her to be competently performing AP/AR/bookkeeping/light payroll. She even decided to go take a couple of seminars/classes at the local community college on her own dime.

She was paid $9 an hour. But with her new skills, she could easily be making $12/hr elsewhere. If that next job emphasized Quickbooks skills, she could easily upgrade again within 6 months to a $15/hr job.

But her current employer didn't want to give her a raise. Her boss felt entitled to her new skills because they had paid (not a whole lot - I probably billed less than $500) to train her. In fact, when she asked for a raise to reflect her new responsibilities, he decided to back away from training her to learn more skills, so that her progress would be hampered.

Here was a competent, driven, quick-learner - the unicorn of random receptionists - and instead of recognizing that and utilizing it, this employer chose to do the opposite.

So why shouldn't she leave? By staying, she not only forgoes immediate income, but she forgoes experience that would lead to additional income in the near future. And so what if she job-hops a couple of times to get from $9 to $15 an hour in a year or two? That extra $6 per hour makes a heck of difference to someone's life.

Her boss took the position that she "owed" them. He refused to give her a reference. I told her to put me in her resume instead. I don't believe in indentured servitude.

Yup. I once watched as an extremely dedicated low level employee was denied a promotion/raise. This girl put in 150% effort all the time…she was so obliging, so dedicated, so detail oriented, and she was doing all manner of higher level tasks that were put on her because she was a superstar. After a year or two, she worked up the nerve to bring up the possibility of a small promotion/raise (which was totally appropriate) and she was shot down. Literally all this girl was asking for was to be given an appropriate title in line with what she was doing. So after that disappointment and hurt, she naturally scaled back her investment to be more in line with a great employee, but she no longer went out of her way to bend over backwards. Management made it clear that they didn’t really value her as much as they said they did. The managers were so confused and disappointed at her change in behavior…how dare she not continue to give 150% after they shot her down!? They started even saying things like they were having “problems” with her because they were so accustomed to just treating her like a doormat.

Seriously my old workplace was so toxic they could make a satire out of it.

Oh lordy you could have just described my work place, and me, and a bunch of other people here.

[StacheyStache]

I have a quick Admin Assistant story.

I started helping out a company with accounting and they had a receptionist. They wanted her to take on more office-related responsibilities so they hired me to spend some time training her to use Quickbooks. We basically added one task per week for her to learn, and it didn't take long for her to be competently performing AP/AR/bookkeeping/light payroll. She even decided to go take a couple of seminars/classes at the local community college on her own dime.

She was paid $9 an hour. But with her new skills, she could easily be making $12/hr elsewhere. If that next job emphasized Quickbooks skills, she could easily upgrade again within 6 months to a $15/hr job.

But her current employer didn't want to give her a raise. Her boss felt entitled to her new skills because they had paid (not a whole lot - I probably billed less than $500) to train her. In fact, when she asked for a raise to reflect her new responsibilities, he decided to back away from training her to learn more skills, so that her progress would be hampered.

Here was a competent, driven, quick-learner - the unicorn of random receptionists - and instead of recognizing that and utilizing it, this employer chose to do the opposite.

So why shouldn't she leave? By staying, she not only forgoes immediate income, but she forgoes experience that would lead to additional income in the near future. And so what if she job-hops a couple of times to get from $9 to $15 an hour in a year or two? That extra $6 per hour makes a heck of difference to someone's life.

Her boss took the position that she "owed" them. He refused to give her a reference. I told her to put me in her resume instead. I don't believe in indentured servitude.

Yup. I once watched as an extremely dedicated low level employee was denied a promotion/raise. This girl put in 150% effort all the time…she was so obliging, so dedicated, so detail oriented, and she was doing all manner of higher level tasks that were put on her because she was a superstar. After a year or two, she worked up the nerve to bring up the possibility of a small promotion/raise (which was totally appropriate) and she was shot down. Literally all this girl was asking for was to be given an appropriate title in line with what she was doing. So after that disappointment and hurt, she naturally scaled back her investment to be more in line with a great employee, but she no longer went out of her way to bend over backwards. Management made it clear that they didn’t really value her as much as they said they did. The managers were so confused and disappointed at her change in behavior…how dare she not continue to give 150% after they shot her down!? They started even saying things like they were having “problems” with her because they were so accustomed to just treating her like a doormat.

Seriously my old workplace was so toxic they could make a satire out of it.

Oh lordy you could have just described my work place, and me, and a bunch of other people here.

This exact scenario happened to me.  At my old job I was a level 1 employee for two years when most level 1 employees were promoted after the first year.  Only problem was per 'policy' I had to wait for someone else in level 2 to leave or be promoted to get my promotion, no amount of hard work or accomplishments could get it for me.  I was easily outworking level 2 and level 3 employees and was assigned work at those levels regularly in addition to my level 1 tasks.  I asked for a raise/promotion to level 2 after the first year and was denied because there were no openings at level 2 anywhere in my county or the surrounding counties and upper management wasn't willing to go to bat for me (my direct boss had been lobbying for a long time but it wasn't up to her).  Why would she?  Right now she had a competent employee performing high level tasks at an entry-level salary.  It was clear she intended to ride that out for as long as possible.

Year 2 I go to the table with a printout of all my work and accomplishments ready to fight again for the promotion, but we never even made it that far.  I see on my evaluation form they're evaluating me as a level 2.  I'm confused and ask them if this means I got the promotion and raise.  "Oh no!" upper management says with a laugh "You still have to wait until there's a Level 2 opening!  But there's obviously no point in evaluating you as a Level 1 anymore so we're going to evaluate you as a Level 2."  "...but my official job title will still say I'm a Level 1?"  "Yep."  "And I'll still be paid like a Level 1?"  "Yep!"  I was told that they'd done this before to other Level 1s for years and I was the first one "smart enough to figure it out" (aka actually read my evaluation sheet). 

I found a new job and gave notice less than a month later.  They claimed they had no idea why.

[iris lily]

I'm a millennial and the thing I laugh about the most is when we are considered the "participation trophy" generation or when someone makes the comment about our generation saying "that's what happens when you give everyone a prize".  We did not make those rules! I am sure some complained about not getting a prize or winning, but then, IMO, it's on the parents to use that as a teaching moment rather than changing things so everyone is a "winner".

yep, no doubt about it.  Gen-Xers ruined their kids. 

Disclaimer - I was never involved in activities where everyone got the same prize for participating regardless of the results. Where I grew up you were rewarded on your performance whether it be academics, sports, music contests, 4-H.

Here's my disclaimer:  I have a drawer at work where I keep First Place and "participant" ribbons.  Every once in a while I give a First place ribbon out to someone who did something really cool that makes my life easier (I'm not their boss).  Sometimes I give "Participant" Ribbons out to someone who really fucked something up.  They know that's about the worst thing that can happen, but they hang it up and wear it like the badge of shame it is.  (all meant in jest and only done in a joking manner).

The ribbon thing is funny.

[Ralph2]

Something my organization has run into over the past few years with young new hires is the unrealistic expectation that recognition, promotions and success should be immediate. Not something that takes a significant amount of time, commitment and work, and occasionally involves frustrating setbacks.  In just the past two years alone we've been through 6 administrative assistants in two positions; their average employment time: 6 months. Every single one of them came in with the attitude that they were the be-all-end-all star employee deserving of a fast track to a better position.

This issue is systemic in how the job market works. Millenials understand how it works and have less employer loyalty. Given the following two options which would you pick?

• Work for XYZ Corp for 10 years and eventually get a promotion/decent raise
• Work for XYZ Corp for 3 years and then get a promotion/raise by applying to ABC Corp

Millenials see employers consistently cutting benefits and people and don't have loyalty and are also smart enough to realize that once you have a relatively small amount of experience, you actually are marketable elsewhere (normally considerably more than in your current company).

Employers delude themselves by acting as if their employees are all too entitled, when often that delusion doesn't match the reality that their previous employees actually did and easily can find a better job elsewhere, whether in position or pay.

Not only millennials are looking at it that way, many others do as well.

As in the US many OZ factory jobs are being offshored & the service jobs touted as taking up the slack are being offshored as well.
And the employers wonder why there is no employee loyalty when most of the basic jobs left are part time, casual or labour hire sublets.

[FINate]

Something my organization has run into over the past few years with young new hires is the unrealistic expectation that recognition, promotions and success should be immediate. Not something that takes a significant amount of time, commitment and work, and occasionally involves frustrating setbacks.  In just the past two years alone we've been through 6 administrative assistants in two positions; their average employment time: 6 months. Every single one of them came in with the attitude that they were the be-all-end-all star employee deserving of a fast track to a better position.

This issue is systemic in how the job market works. Millenials understand how it works and have less employer loyalty. Given the following two options which would you pick?

• Work for XYZ Corp for 10 years and eventually get a promotion/decent raise
• Work for XYZ Corp for 3 years and then get a promotion/raise by applying to ABC Corp

Millenials see employers consistently cutting benefits and people and don't have loyalty and are also smart enough to realize that once you have a relatively small amount of experience, you actually are marketable elsewhere (normally considerably more than in your current company).

Employers delude themselves by acting as if their employees are all too entitled, when often that delusion doesn't match the reality that their previous employees actually did and easily can find a better job elsewhere, whether in position or pay.

Not only millennials are looking at it that way, many others do as well.

As in the US many OZ factory jobs are being offshored & the service jobs touted as taking up the slack are being offshored as well.
And the employers wonder why there is no employee loyalty when most of the basic jobs left are part time, casual or labour hire sublets.

I'm a Gen-Xer. I don't know any peers in my cohort who ever believed in employer/employee loyalty. Our expectation was always 'employment at will' where either party could separate for any reason. We knew we could be laid off at anytime (and many did), and anyone could jump to a better opportunity at anytime (and many did). This was 20 years ago.

There is no such thing as employer/employee loyalty unless you have a legally binding employment contract. If you aren't getting promoted or paid what you think you're worth, time to interview elsewhere. If you get a better offer, jump ship. If not, well maybe you're not as great as you think you are. Expecting loyalty from your employer, perhaps even assuming it, is like being in an abusive relationship. You're much better off treating it purely as a business transaction and not taking it personally.

[Rimu05]

To be honest, the term millennial means absolute shit.

The same attributes given to millennials have appeared through out history just with different technology.

For instance, in the case of entitlement. Do people forget once upon a time we had nobility/aristocrats/kings and queens many of who did nothing to warrant their wealth? Then their children were entitled to inherit positions just based on birth. 

People sat for hours just to be painted. let's not make it seem like the selfie somehow made millennials more vain.

At one point, it was the fashion to wear a heavy wig, paint your face a deathly white and have atrociously pink cheeks. Oh and a stomach cutting corset.

I only attended high school and college in America so the participation prize is not something I've heard of. Growing up in Kenya and South Africa, your grades are publicized. In Kenya, your high school SATs are public too. Yeah, you apply for High school, you don't just get in. You apply for college too so really the best Higschool tend to have an advantage on that front so from the time you are in sixth grade, you devote the next three years to pretty much the High school SAT. Also unlike the U.S, you are tested in about six or seven subjects. You better remember everything you learned.

The funny thing is my parent's generation tell us how entitled we are just cause we didn't have to walk 10KM to school. Our generation got the bus. My grandparents told my parents how entitled they were because they didn't have to farm and weren't alive during the colonial years. I look at my aunt's kids and I'm like gosh, kids this days lack independence because for us boarding school was the norm. On and on it goes, the thing people don't realize here is the cultural and technological changes. The bus meant, no walking to school.

Not to mention, I am constantly frowning at my aunts and their big houses with garages full of clutter. They aren't millennials. However, everyone in my aunt's neighborhood is around that generation. We're talking large houses with garages and almost every drive way has an SUV. Garages are open often revealing people's clutter and I wonder how people live like that. Me, the 24 year old millennial.

I am not sure we are more wasteful than the previous generations because statistics show, that the older generations aren't saving enough. Also, isn't most debt carried by the generation before millennials?

[TightFistedScot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeAtNduPFmI

This is a relevant talk by Simon Sinek about Millennials in the workplace, the culture of instant gratification, and social media/smart phones.

[dividendman]

Here is another youtube video about how the older generation thinks it's the best and don't want change :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7qQ6_RV4VQ

[FINate]

Every generation makes a mess of things - it's human nature to be self-centered, short-sighted, etc. So of course older generations made plenty of mistakes. Some are now a little wiser, others continue making the same errors. They are getting into their golden and twilight years and many are still paying for decisions they made many years ago. They've already lived most of their life whereas millennials are still in the early phases and have the opportunity to make changes that will have a large impact on their future.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because other generations made mistakes doesn't mean millennials are exempt from input. I was a 'slacker' in the 90's and I had to be knocked around a bit before outgrowing that phase (to be clear, I have many issues to continue working on). I hate to think of how things would've turned out for me if I discarded that criticism as simply unfair or generational nit-picking.

[beel]

"Well opinions are like assholes, everybody has one" - Dirty Harry (The Deadpool 1988)

I was born in Jan '82 and I am always called a "Millennial".  I don't know what the hell a millennial really is, but I just like to consider myself a simple person.  If millennials are so lazy and entitled it is only a matter of time before that becomes self correcting.  I take my cues from my own generation and the ones before by trying to make the best of everything.  It really doesn't matter to me what happens, everything will change with time as no one entity is at the helm controlling destiny.  My wife of 10 years was born in '86 and she certainly is no entitled, selfie, smart phone upgrade addict who expects everything from the world.  In fact quite the opposite!  I was talking to my neighbor about something similar to this a while back, he was born in '48.  He basically told me "Son, I lived through the 60's, everything goes in cycles".  I think he is spot on, whatever this current generation is will not be the same 25 years from now.  That is probably a good thing, but I guess we will see.  Oh yeah another great quote!

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man..." 

can you guess?

[Quidnon?]

"Well opinions are like assholes, everybody has one" - Dirty Harry (The Deadpool 1988)

I was born in Jan '82 and I am always called a "Millennial".  I don't really know what the hell a millennial really is, but I just like to consider myself a simple person. If millennials are so lazy and entitled it is only a matter of time before that becomes self correcting.

One way or another.

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man..." 

can you guess?

The Big Lewbowski?

[LeRainDrop]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeAtNduPFmI

This is a relevant talk by Simon Sinek about Millennials in the workplace, the culture of instant gratification, and social media/smart phones.

One of my friends actually posted this video to facebook this morning.  I thought it was interesting and actually made some great points about smartphones that are applicable to all living generations, not just millennials.

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man..." 

can you guess?

The Big Lewbowski?

Yup.  I hope that this gem of a movie has been passed down to millennials ;-)

[TightFistedScot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeAtNduPFmI

This is a relevant talk by Simon Sinek about Millennials in the workplace, the culture of instant gratification, and social media/smart phones.

One of my friends actually posted this video to facebook this morning.  I thought it was interesting and actually made some great points about smartphones that are applicable to all living generations, not just millennials.

Yeah it was shared by a number of my FB friends today as well. That's where I saw it.

Definitely applies to anyone with a social media/smart phone habit. I for one am absolutely addicted to the "likes" on instagram and facebook.

There's a great episode of the American version of the tv series "The Black Mirror" called Nosedive that is an eerie dystopian commentary on social media, technology, and rating social interactions through "likes". It's on netflix.

[LeRainDrop]

There's a great episode of the American version of the tv series "The Black Mirror" called Nosedive that is an eerie dystopian commentary on social media, technology, and rating social interactions through "likes". It's on netflix.

I feel like we're on the same wavelength.  I had added Black Mirror to my Netflix list early this afternoon.  Twilight Zone...

[Metric Mouse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeAtNduPFmI

This is a relevant talk by Simon Sinek about Millennials in the workplace, the culture of instant gratification, and social media/smart phones.

One of my friends actually posted this video to facebook this morning.  I thought it was interesting and actually made some great points about smartphones that are applicable to all living generations, not just millennials.

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man..." 

can you guess?

The Big Lewbowski?

Yup.  I hope that this gem of a movie has been passed down to millennials ;-)

Perhaps they wouldn't identify with the main character.

[boy_bye]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeAtNduPFmI

This is a relevant talk by Simon Sinek about Millennials in the workplace, the culture of instant gratification, and social media/smart phones.

One of my friends actually posted this video to facebook this morning.  I thought it was interesting and actually made some great points about smartphones that are applicable to all living generations, not just millennials.

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man..." 

can you guess?

The Big Lewbowski?

Yup.  I hope that this gem of a movie has been passed down to millennials ;-)

Perhaps they wouldn't identify with the main character.

Not yet!

[iris lily]

I'm a Boomer and had never seen The Big Lebowski all the way through until Christmas Day this year. DH, me, and a friend watched the dvd. There are too many cultural referance in this film to not have seen it. It was, well, an experience, kinda funny. Glad that is under my belt.
 

[fdhs_runner]

2. Texting.  omg, just stop.  Because you know what, back when the telephone was invented I bet all the oldsters were whining about how lazy everyone is because back in their day, they wrote LETTERS.  "Gees!  It's like people need instant gratification these days, they just pick up the phone and talk to people instead of taking the time to sit down and think deep thoughts and elaborate and expound their feelings into an actual letter and send it in the mail and wait for the reply. "Pretty soon people won't even know how to read or write", they probably said.

Yep, and back before the telephone they also used telegraphs, which were basically texts sent via landline. The military had to rely on runners or signal flags, which weren't exactly wordy. Texting isn't exactly new, it just had a different name back then.

[Aelias]

One of my favorite quotes about those damned young people being all wussy and entitled:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

-FREAKING SOCRATES  http://www.bartleby.com/73/195.html

I swear to God, nothing new under the sun.

[FINate]

One of my favorite quotes about those damned young people being all wussy and entitled:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

-FREAKING SOCRATES  http://www.bartleby.com/73/195.html

I swear to God, nothing new under the sun.

Socrates also witnessed the decline and fall of ancient Athens and the end of its golden age. Sometimes old curmudgeons bitch about things not because it's new or unique, but precisely because it's happened before and they can guess where things are headed.

[TightFistedScot]

One of my favorite quotes about those damned young people being all wussy and entitled:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

-FREAKING SOCRATES  http://www.bartleby.com/73/195.html

I swear to God, nothing new under the sun.

I for one love chattering before company, gobbling dainties, and crossing my legs.

This is a great quote.

[Cowardly Toaster]

One of my favorite quotes about those damned young people being all wussy and entitled:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

-FREAKING SOCRATES  http://www.bartleby.com/73/195.html

I swear to God, nothing new under the sun.

Socrates also witnessed the decline and fall of ancient Athens and the end of its golden age. Sometimes old curmudgeons bitch about things not because it's new or unique, but precisely because it's happened before and they can guess where things are headed.

This

[Quidnon?]

One of my favorite quotes about those damned young people being all wussy and entitled:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

-FREAKING SOCRATES  http://www.bartleby.com/73/195.html

I swear to God, nothing new under the sun.

Socrates also witnessed the decline and fall of ancient Athens and the end of its golden age. Sometimes old curmudgeons bitch about things not because it's new or unique, but precisely because it's happened before and they can guess where things are headed.

This

While this is a cute rebuttal, I think some of you have misunderstood where the term "Millennial" comes from.  It was coined in the book, The Fourth Turning; a sociology book that proposes and examines the idea of the saeculum, that each generation has traits that affects the next generation, resulting in a predictable repeating cycle that repeats over the course of about 80 years.  It's a very enlightening read; I read it many years ago and recommend it highly.  It was published in 1997, and very accurately predicted many of the common traits of Millennials, as well as explain a lot of the why.

http://www.fourthturning.com/

[FINate]

One of my favorite quotes about those damned young people being all wussy and entitled:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

-FREAKING SOCRATES  http://www.bartleby.com/73/195.html

I swear to God, nothing new under the sun.

Socrates also witnessed the decline and fall of ancient Athens and the end of its golden age. Sometimes old curmudgeons bitch about things not because it's new or unique, but precisely because it's happened before and they can guess where things are headed.

This

While this is a cute rebuttal, I think some of you have misunderstood where the term "Millennial" comes from.  It was coined in the book, The Fourth Turning; a sociology book that proposes and examines the idea of the saeculum, that each generation has traits that affects the next generation, resulting in a predictable repeating cycle that repeats over the course of about 80 years.  It's a very enlightening read; I read it many years ago and recommend it highly.  It was published in 1997, and very accurately predicted many of the common traits of Millennials, as well as explain a lot of the why.

http://www.fourthturning.com/

Its cuteness doesn't detract from its validity :) I agree, history tends to repeat itself somewhat, which is a point made in my "rebuttal." Strauss and Howe may have coined the term, but that doesn't give them a monopoly on describing and analyzing the generation. Their hypothesis of generations is interesting and may to a degree model certain times in history, but count me in the camp that's skeptical of its specific predictive capabilities. For example: they predicted Millennials would be more civic-minded (more concerned about others) when in fact they test higher for narcissism than prior generations. This increase in 'attention-seeking behavior, power and dominance' and 'acute sense of self-entitlement and defensiveness' is at the core of a lot of what's being discussed on this thread.

I don't think anyone should feel ashamed of their generation. A generation is always a mixed bag of good and bad because it's the sum of so many individuals. When people point out problem areas in a groups it's a potential opportunity for self improvement. If it's not relevant to you, great, then don't worry about it. But getting defensive and/or discarding it out-of-hand as invalid is a lost opportunity.

[Quidnon?]

. For example: they predicted Millennials would be more civic-minded (more concerned about others) when in fact they test higher for narcissism than prior generations. This increase in 'attention-seeking behavior, power and dominance' and 'acute sense of self-entitlement and defensiveness' is at the core of a lot of what's being discussed on this thread.

In conjunction with that, they also predicted that they would have the highest degree of solidarity with their own generational peers, and therefore much less 'civic' concern for the elder generations.  In short, their civic-mindedness would be particular to their own generation, not society at large.  In my opinion, they nailed that one; and it isn't really contrary to the idea that Millennials are more narcissistic than other living generations.

[Cowardly Toaster]

I think the very emergence of distinct generations in the last 120 years is a really bad sign. It means that the world is changing much faster than we can adopt. Continuity between generations is very important as invaluable knowledge gets passed down.

[Quidnon?]

I think the very emergence of distinct generations in the last 120 years is a really bad sign. It means that the world is changing much faster than we can adopt. Continuity between generations is very important as invaluable knowledge gets passed down.

I suppose it might be, if that were actually a recent phenomenon.  But it's not.  The Fourth Turning documents such generational traits back to the 1600's, and theorizes that it's a feature of civilization since it's very inception.

[Cowardly Toaster]

I think the very emergence of distinct generations in the last 120 years is a really bad sign. It means that the world is changing much faster than we can adopt. Continuity between generations is very important as invaluable knowledge gets passed down.

I suppose it might be, if that were actually a recent phenomenon.  But it's not.  The Fourth Turning documents such generational traits back to the 1600's, and theorizes that it's a feature of civilization since it's very inception.

Some generation to generation changes probably have been happening for a good amount of time, especially in America. But you have to admit that the pace has picked up a lot. I'm late 20s, and there are kids born in the 2000s who don't remember a time before smartphones. Just one example, but in my short life I'm already seeing this stuff.

It's not that things like smartphones are bad necessarily, just that we have no mechanisms to deal with them.

[Quidnon?]

I think the very emergence of distinct generations in the last 120 years is a really bad sign. It means that the world is changing much faster than we can adopt. Continuity between generations is very important as invaluable knowledge gets passed down.

I suppose it might be, if that were actually a recent phenomenon.  But it's not.  The Fourth Turning documents such generational traits back to the 1600's, and theorizes that it's a feature of civilization since it's very inception.

Some generation to generation changes probably have been happening for a good amount of time, especially in America. But you have to admit that the pace has picked up a lot. I'm late 20s, and there are kids born in the 2000s who don't remember a time before smartphones. Just one example, but in my short life I'm already seeing this stuff.

It's not that things like smartphones are bad necessarily, just that we have no mechanisms to deal with them.

Ah, you mean the pace of technological innovation.  I understand now.  Time will tell, but all technology seems to come with downsides.

[Gondolin]

Socrates also witnessed the decline and fall of ancient Athens and the end of its golden age. Sometimes old curmudgeons bitch about things not because it's new or unique, but precisely because it's happened before and they can guess where things are headed.

So....b***hing Boomers are really mystic seers who are drawing deep historical parallels? Gimme a break, every generation complains that each successive generation is decadent, lazy, trashy, etc. Just because, occasionally and at random, their complaints line up with a societal convulsion does not mean they had any special foreknowledge.

It's no different than claiming that the stock market is going to tank every day for 15 years and then calling yourself a guru when the next recession finally hits.

(As an unrelated aside, in the particular historical era in question, I would argue that the US is much closer to the Persians than the Athenians)

[RangerOne]

At least from my limited experience in the world of software most of the problems with individual advancement seems to be culture and communication. You need to be your own advocate if you want to move around or up to start. But on top of that you also need functional management.

Ultimately the decision to change your title, your pay or your responsibilities lies probably with a couple people 2 or 3 steps above your direct manager early in your career. If your direct manager and his manager aren't equally pushing the right buttons to get you where you want to be all the good work in the world will result in no movement and no big raises.

I suspect to a degree this has always been the case. Unless there is some magical time I am not aware of when everyone got promotions with big pay raises that deserved them. I know raises used to on average be larger for salary people, but it would probably be hard to show meaningful promotions were more common.

A manager who is looking out for the company's well being as a whole will realize that fostering the growth and mobility of good employees is best for everyone. A short sighted manager or management team will milk you in one position until you get bored and quit for a better opportunity. There are plenty of both floating around especially at the entry level middle management which is generally the testing ground to weed out good potential managers from weak ones.

If you are a high performer and your company is failing to offer you fair compensation or growth, that is the kiss of death and if they should know as well as the employee that you will likely start searching for other better employment. Which is their loss frankly.

I don't see anything particularly special about this generation of employees versus the last except timing. Many of us graduated college and tried to get jobs during the housing collapse. Which forced a lot of us to course correct careers since big companies were not hiring in 2007-2008. I know United Technologies whom I was interning for in 2007 was on a hiring freeze for most of its sub companies for at least 2 years around that time and was only taking on temps and contractors.

The lack of pensions in the private sector is probably also the other big change for the current Gen X and Millennial work force. My dad at 60 is probably the last round of middle class people who will have been able to work at a low level in a company for 30 years and walk away with 50%-60% of his salary for life. Most younger guys below him ended up seeing their pensions cut short as they moved away from that model.

[FINate]

Socrates also witnessed the decline and fall of ancient Athens and the end of its golden age. Sometimes old curmudgeons bitch about things not because it's new or unique, but precisely because it's happened before and they can guess where things are headed.

So....b***hing Boomers are really mystic seers who are drawing deep historical parallels? Gimme a break, every generation complains that each successive generation is decadent, lazy, trashy, etc. Just because, occasionally and at random, their complaints line up with a societal convulsion does not mean they had any special foreknowledge.

It's no different than claiming that the stock market is going to tank every day for 15 years and then calling yourself a guru when the next recession finally hits.

(As an unrelated aside, in the particular historical era in question, I would argue that the US is much closer to the Persians than the Athenians)

Pretty much every generation criticizes every other generation. Millennials, and certainly Gen-Xers, complain about Boomers all the time, and vice versa. "Everyone complains therefore your argument is invalid" is not sound reasoning. When boomers, especially those with hands-on experience managing Millennials claim they have entitlement issues, why dismiss it out of hand? Maybe they have a point? At least argue against it in substantive terms. Otherwise it just further confirms the sense that Millennials are overly defensive.

[ysette9]

When boomers, especially those with hands-on experience managing Millennials claim they have entitlement issues, why dismiss it out of hand? Maybe they have a point? At least argue against it in substantive terms. Otherwise it just further confirms the sense that Millennials are overly defensive.

Fair enough on the point about arguing on substantive terms. It is hard to get concrete trending data on whether a large and diverse set of people are demonstrating entitlement in the workforce. I can share my own personal experience, for what it is worth.

As a (old) Millennial who has been in management for 4 years and managed everyone from new college grads to people who have retired after a full career at my company, I do not see a sense of entitlement from the Millennial employees in my area, in my industry, at my company.  If I were to speak in generalities, what I do see is that Millennials are more driven to advance their career by actively seeking out mentors, taking with their managers about career development, going back to school, seeking out job rotations and stretch assignments and the like. The older workers I have managed are more likely to (though not universally) be comfortable in their position and not seek out any additional growth assignments. They are more generally, though again, not universally, likely to hold the opinion that you need to put in your time in order to advance.