Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 842506 times)

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7850 on: July 16, 2019, 07:14:34 AM »
Not a profile in courage.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/07/15/republicans-trump-quiet-minority-congresswomen-leave/?fbclid=IwAR3HJ4LhbTFFBeZaORoWzZ4AE-2MsVLTlaQUm29hhdYk46f9TiXCDtVLGls&utm_term=.1e8d68fd35e4

Why would the party of racism speak out against something they fervently believe in?  Donald Trump is the embodiment of the Republican ideal:  An old, rich, white guy doing whatever the fuck he wants . . . using his money, power, and connections to avoid all legal repercussions.

I think they should replace the elephant with Trump's hairpiece and call it a day.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7851 on: July 16, 2019, 07:43:33 AM »
Not a profile in courage.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/07/15/republicans-trump-quiet-minority-congresswomen-leave/?fbclid=IwAR3HJ4LhbTFFBeZaORoWzZ4AE-2MsVLTlaQUm29hhdYk46f9TiXCDtVLGls&utm_term=.1e8d68fd35e4

Why would the party of racism speak out against something they fervently believe in?  Donald Trump is the embodiment of the Republican ideal:  An old, rich, white guy doing whatever the fuck he wants . . . using his money, power, and connections to avoid all legal repercussions.

I think they should replace the elephant with Trump's hairpiece and call it a day.

Quite true.

Trump says racist things because his supporters are largely bigots. If they didnít like it, he would stop.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/15/trump-twitter-aoc-racist-rant-congress?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1563261428

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7852 on: July 16, 2019, 07:51:18 AM »
ďIt doesnít concern me because many people agree with me.  A lot of people love it, by the way.Ē - Trump on his overtly racist comments

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7853 on: July 16, 2019, 07:54:00 AM »
I listened to Ben Shapiro (for those who don't know, he's built a talk radio brand as a Conservative Jew) last night to try to get a conservative take on this.

He acknowledged that Trump's comments were dumb, but then spent forty minutes attacking Ilhan Omar. His position seemed to be that Trump shouldn't have said this about the other three Congresswomen, but it was fine to say it about her.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7854 on: July 16, 2019, 07:58:55 AM »
I listened to Ben Shapiro (for those who don't know, he's built a talk radio brand as a Conservative Jew) last night to try to get a conservative take on this.

He acknowledged that Trump's comments were dumb, but then spent forty minutes attacking Ilhan Omar. His position seemed to be that Trump shouldn't have said this about the other three Congresswomen, but it was fine to say it about her.

A conservative Jew attacking a Muslim?  That's dog bites man levels of newsworthiness.  :P

partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7855 on: July 16, 2019, 08:03:40 AM »
I have to say, while he sucks at being the executive in chief and a leader and role model, he is a consummate POLITICIAN. He is almost a perfect politician which is basically like being the perfect conman, who both steals from you and you feel good about it or at least don't realize you got robbed. He knows how to yank people's chains to distract and divide, so he comes out on top. It's not great for our country, but it is working out splendid for him and his special interests.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 09:30:41 AM by partgypsy »

runbikerun

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7856 on: July 16, 2019, 08:06:41 AM »
I listened to Ben Shapiro (for those who don't know, he's built a talk radio brand as a Conservative Jew) last night to try to get a conservative take on this.

He acknowledged that Trump's comments were dumb, but then spent forty minutes attacking Ilhan Omar. His position seemed to be that Trump shouldn't have said this about the other three Congresswomen, but it was fine to say it about her.

It's hilarious that Shapiro gets taken remotely seriously. He's the intellectual equivalent of a WWE wrestler: he's very good at looking smart and thoughtful, but in an actual formal clash he's got absolutely no basis for optimism.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7857 on: July 16, 2019, 09:14:38 AM »
The overarching theme that's come out of a lot of conservative takes on Omar is a conflating of Israel's interests with US interests.

I was raised by a Jewish mother who pressured me to be very pro-Israel.

I am now a practicing Christian, but I can see how the Trump Presidency has basically cemented Natanyahu's power in Israel. As long as Likud controls Israel, I do not see a path to a 2-state solution.

But what I don't understand is why Republicans are so obsessed with Israel. How isn't there more diversity with regard to this one diplomatic relationship. How is a movement that began with obsession over the over-reach of our Federal Government somehow treating this relationship as such a high priority?

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7858 on: July 16, 2019, 09:15:13 AM »
I listened to Ben Shapiro (for those who don't know, he's built a talk radio brand as a Conservative Jew) last night to try to get a conservative take on this.

He acknowledged that Trump's comments were dumb, but then spent forty minutes attacking Ilhan Omar. His position seemed to be that Trump shouldn't have said this about the other three Congresswomen, but it was fine to say it about her.

It's hilarious that Shapiro gets taken remotely seriously. He's the intellectual equivalent of a WWE wrestler: he's very good at looking smart and thoughtful, but in an actual formal clash he's got absolutely no basis for optimism.

He gots glasses, though. So he must be smart.

Hey, it worked for Rick Perry...

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7859 on: July 16, 2019, 09:47:57 AM »
The overarching theme that's come out of a lot of conservative takes on Omar is a conflating of Israel's interests with US interests.

I was raised by a Jewish mother who pressured me to be very pro-Israel.

I am now a practicing Christian, but I can see how the Trump Presidency has basically cemented Natanyahu's power in Israel. As long as Likud controls Israel, I do not see a path to a 2-state solution.

But what I don't understand is why Republicans are so obsessed with Israel. How isn't there more diversity with regard to this one diplomatic relationship. How is a movement that began with obsession over the over-reach of our Federal Government somehow treating this relationship as such a high priority?

Because the number one stance of the Republican party is whatever the opposite of what Democrats want. That, and independent thought no longer seems welcome in conservative media.

I honestly still don't understand the offense taken at Omar's statements. To me they seemed to attack American politicians more than Israel, and to call them anti-sematic is even more of a stretch. Criticizing a government isn't the same as criticizing a religion.

It's possible I don't understand the context but that whole situation was odd to me.

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7860 on: July 16, 2019, 10:27:10 AM »
The overarching theme that's come out of a lot of conservative takes on Omar is a conflating of Israel's interests with US interests.

I was raised by a Jewish mother who pressured me to be very pro-Israel.

I am now a practicing Christian, but I can see how the Trump Presidency has basically cemented Natanyahu's power in Israel. As long as Likud controls Israel, I do not see a path to a 2-state solution.

But what I don't understand is why Republicans are so obsessed with Israel. How isn't there more diversity with regard to this one diplomatic relationship. How is a movement that began with obsession over the over-reach of our Federal Government somehow treating this relationship as such a high priority?

Because the number one stance of the Republican party is whatever the opposite of what Democrats want. That, and independent thought no longer seems welcome in conservative media.

I honestly still don't understand the offense taken at Omar's statements. To me they seemed to attack American politicians more than Israel, and to call them anti-sematic is even more of a stretch. Criticizing a government isn't the same as criticizing a religion.

It's possible I don't understand the context but that whole situation was odd to me.

It's becoming more and more apparent as time goes by -- the #1 priority of many Republicans seems to be 'own the libs' no matter what that actually means.

partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7861 on: July 16, 2019, 10:36:03 AM »
The overarching theme that's come out of a lot of conservative takes on Omar is a conflating of Israel's interests with US interests.

I was raised by a Jewish mother who pressured me to be very pro-Israel.

I am now a practicing Christian, but I can see how the Trump Presidency has basically cemented Natanyahu's power in Israel. As long as Likud controls Israel, I do not see a path to a 2-state solution.

But what I don't understand is why Republicans are so obsessed with Israel. How isn't there more diversity with regard to this one diplomatic relationship. How is a movement that began with obsession over the over-reach of our Federal Government somehow treating this relationship as such a high priority?

Because the number one stance of the Republican party is whatever the opposite of what Democrats want. That, and independent thought no longer seems welcome in conservative media.

I honestly still don't understand the offense taken at Omar's statements. To me they seemed to attack American politicians more than Israel, and to call them anti-sematic is even more of a stretch. Criticizing a government isn't the same as criticizing a religion.

It's possible I don't understand the context but that whole situation was odd to me.

It's becoming more and more apparent as time goes by -- the #1 priority of many Republicans seems to be 'own the libs' no matter what that actually means.

It really takes a certain special 2nd grade level of understanding, to see everything as winners and losers versus looking at the big picture. That these Republican strategies are  going to harm a lot of people on both sides of the aisle. I suspect they will only get it when water comes out of the tap brown, there are no more forests to look at, and the stock market tanks.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7862 on: July 16, 2019, 10:44:23 AM »
The overarching theme that's come out of a lot of conservative takes on Omar is a conflating of Israel's interests with US interests.

I was raised by a Jewish mother who pressured me to be very pro-Israel.

I am now a practicing Christian, but I can see how the Trump Presidency has basically cemented Natanyahu's power in Israel. As long as Likud controls Israel, I do not see a path to a 2-state solution.

But what I don't understand is why Republicans are so obsessed with Israel. How isn't there more diversity with regard to this one diplomatic relationship. How is a movement that began with obsession over the over-reach of our Federal Government somehow treating this relationship as such a high priority?

Because the number one stance of the Republican party is whatever the opposite of what Democrats want. That, and independent thought no longer seems welcome in conservative media.

I honestly still don't understand the offense taken at Omar's statements. To me they seemed to attack American politicians more than Israel, and to call them anti-sematic is even more of a stretch. Criticizing a government isn't the same as criticizing a religion.

It's possible I don't understand the context but that whole situation was odd to me.

It's becoming more and more apparent as time goes by -- the #1 priority of many Republicans seems to be 'own the libs' no matter what that actually means.

It really takes a certain special 2nd grade level of understanding, to see everything as winners and losers versus looking at the big picture. That these Republican strategies are  going to harm a lot of people on both sides of the aisle. I suspect they will only get it when water comes out of the tap brown, there are no more forests to look at, and the stock market tanks.

Quote
I suspect they will only get it when water comes out of the tap brown, there are no more forests to look at, and the stock market tanks.

Unfortunately this seems more likely...and they'll find a way to blame Obama/AOC.

arebelspy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7863 on: July 16, 2019, 01:07:02 PM »


It really takes a certain special 2nd grade level of understanding, to see everything as winners and losers versus looking at the big picture. That these Republican strategies are  going to harm a lot of people on both sides of the aisle. I suspect they will only get it when water comes out of the tap brown, there are no more forests to look at, and the stock market tanks.

Oh come on, that's not true...

They won't care at all about the first two.
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GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7864 on: July 16, 2019, 01:17:37 PM »
Brown is the colour of freedom water, and only hippie communists like trees.

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7865 on: July 16, 2019, 01:19:53 PM »
Brown is the colour of freedom water, and only hippie communists like trees.

And it's (insert current most relevant Democratic politician)'s fault that the market is down.

Psychstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7866 on: July 16, 2019, 03:15:17 PM »
The overarching theme that's come out of a lot of conservative takes on Omar is a conflating of Israel's interests with US interests.

I was raised by a Jewish mother who pressured me to be very pro-Israel.

I am now a practicing Christian, but I can see how the Trump Presidency has basically cemented Natanyahu's power in Israel. As long as Likud controls Israel, I do not see a path to a 2-state solution.

But what I don't understand is why Republicans are so obsessed with Israel. How isn't there more diversity with regard to this one diplomatic relationship. How is a movement that began with obsession over the over-reach of our Federal Government somehow treating this relationship as such a high priority?

I don't recall who or where, but someone on this forum posted a link to a story that talked about how for Radical Christian Extremists, the return to Isreal of the Jews is a step along the path of the return of the lord and the rapture, which they are rooting for (because F all the nonbelievers, they want to be raptured). It was incredibly disturbing but, living in Texas my whole life and having family from rural Texas, not surprising.

OtherJen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7867 on: July 16, 2019, 03:29:28 PM »
The overarching theme that's come out of a lot of conservative takes on Omar is a conflating of Israel's interests with US interests.

I was raised by a Jewish mother who pressured me to be very pro-Israel.

I am now a practicing Christian, but I can see how the Trump Presidency has basically cemented Natanyahu's power in Israel. As long as Likud controls Israel, I do not see a path to a 2-state solution.

But what I don't understand is why Republicans are so obsessed with Israel. How isn't there more diversity with regard to this one diplomatic relationship. How is a movement that began with obsession over the over-reach of our Federal Government somehow treating this relationship as such a high priority?

I don't recall who or where, but someone on this forum posted a link to a story that talked about how for Radical Christian Extremists, the return to Isreal of the Jews is a step along the path of the return of the lord and the rapture, which they are rooting for (because F all the nonbelievers, they want to be raptured). It was incredibly disturbing but, living in Texas my whole life and having family from rural Texas, not surprising.

My father spouted off fundamentalist Christian beliefs for several years of my childhood/adolescence (Jack van Impe and his ilk were regular viewing in our house). This accurately describes the belief regarding Israel.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7868 on: July 16, 2019, 03:32:18 PM »
The overarching theme that's come out of a lot of conservative takes on Omar is a conflating of Israel's interests with US interests.

I was raised by a Jewish mother who pressured me to be very pro-Israel.

I am now a practicing Christian, but I can see how the Trump Presidency has basically cemented Natanyahu's power in Israel. As long as Likud controls Israel, I do not see a path to a 2-state solution.

But what I don't understand is why Republicans are so obsessed with Israel. How isn't there more diversity with regard to this one diplomatic relationship. How is a movement that began with obsession over the over-reach of our Federal Government somehow treating this relationship as such a high priority?

I don't recall who or where, but someone on this forum posted a link to a story that talked about how for Radical Christian Extremists, the return to Isreal of the Jews is a step along the path of the return of the lord and the rapture, which they are rooting for (because F all the nonbelievers, they want to be raptured). It was incredibly disturbing but, living in Texas my whole life and having family from rural Texas, not surprising.

Yep. Dominionism. I might have posted that article. Not sure which one was posted, but it might have been this one.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-10-24/why-american-evangelicals-are-huge-base-support-israel

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7869 on: July 16, 2019, 03:35:01 PM »
The overarching theme that's come out of a lot of conservative takes on Omar is a conflating of Israel's interests with US interests.

I was raised by a Jewish mother who pressured me to be very pro-Israel.

I am now a practicing Christian, but I can see how the Trump Presidency has basically cemented Natanyahu's power in Israel. As long as Likud controls Israel, I do not see a path to a 2-state solution.

But what I don't understand is why Republicans are so obsessed with Israel. How isn't there more diversity with regard to this one diplomatic relationship. How is a movement that began with obsession over the over-reach of our Federal Government somehow treating this relationship as such a high priority?

I don't recall who or where, but someone on this forum posted a link to a story that talked about how for Radical Christian Extremists, the return to Isreal of the Jews is a step along the path of the return of the lord and the rapture, which they are rooting for (because F all the nonbelievers, they want to be raptured). It was incredibly disturbing but, living in Texas my whole life and having family from rural Texas, not surprising.

My father spouted off fundamentalist Christian beliefs for several years of my childhood/adolescence (Jack van Impe and his ilk were regular viewing in our house). This accurately describes the belief regarding Israel.

I grew up in a fundamentalist but very anti-premillennialism. It seems to me that even younger Christians don't really buy into "the rapture" that come from a premillennial background. Chalk this up to being another thing that politicians, especially the GOP only represent old, white Christians.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7870 on: July 16, 2019, 06:08:10 PM »
If you are wondering, like I have been, what those BLATANTLY racist tweets about the four Democratic congresswomen was designed to distract people from...

Here's the lawsuit against Trump and Epstein that one of the Jane Does dropped shortly before the election because she was receiving death threats.

https://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/jeffrey-epstein-lawsuit-docs-signed.pdf?fbclid=IwAR147lslsFw1rx2SIHs24ET1CbO7FBLIz7_yxCiyf1ynus6ehv1tZq1cHUw
This is so profoundly disturbing I donít see how the media is covering anything but.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7871 on: July 16, 2019, 06:13:40 PM »
If you are wondering, like I have been, what those BLATANTLY racist tweets about the four Democratic congresswomen was designed to distract people from...

Here's the lawsuit against Trump and Epstein that one of the Jane Does dropped shortly before the election because she was receiving death threats.

https://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/jeffrey-epstein-lawsuit-docs-signed.pdf?fbclid=IwAR147lslsFw1rx2SIHs24ET1CbO7FBLIz7_yxCiyf1ynus6ehv1tZq1cHUw
This is so profoundly disturbing I donít see how the media is covering anything but.

Itís crazy, isnít it? The MSM spends all its time chasing after anything that will get it more clicks.

And yet, when there is an actual story out there... an important one... they just kind of drop the ball.

LennStar

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7872 on: July 17, 2019, 12:18:35 AM »
If you are wondering, like I have been, what those BLATANTLY racist tweets about the four Democratic congresswomen was designed to distract people from...

Here's the lawsuit against Trump and Epstein that one of the Jane Does dropped shortly before the election because she was receiving death threats.

https://radaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/jeffrey-epstein-lawsuit-docs-signed.pdf?fbclid=IwAR147lslsFw1rx2SIHs24ET1CbO7FBLIz7_yxCiyf1ynus6ehv1tZq1cHUw
This is so profoundly disturbing I donít see how the media is covering anything but.

It's all FAKE NEWS!!

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7873 on: July 17, 2019, 06:53:05 AM »
So I managed to get some alone time and checked twitter last night: saw the headline about John Paul Stevens' passing, and my first thought was, "Is Trump going to get a third Supreme Court appointment?

But instead I dove into the fever stew of ultra-liberal podcasts, and I have to say that I've become a lot more cynical as a result.

  • It's pretty clear that George Conway is taking such strident anti-Trump positions so that he will be able to reconcile and absolve his wife when Trump loses, and she'll have an array of post-Trump employment opportunities (she's doing fine as long as Trump remains POTUS)
  • The Mueller report was terrible for Trump, but Barr basically put up enough fog that conservative media could tug their base away from having to grapple with its content in any meaningful way
  • Thomas Jefferson's rules about speaking on the House floor are dumb.
  • Trump's so obviously defective that we will certainly win in 2020, and finally institute our Socialist paradise in which all student loans are forgiven.
  • Israel and Saudi Arabia < Iran

former player

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7874 on: July 17, 2019, 06:56:50 AM »

  • It's pretty clear that George Conway is taking such strident anti-Trump positions so that he will be able to reconcile and absolve his wife when Trump loses, and she'll have an array of post-Trump employment opportunities (she's doing fine as long as Trump remains POTUS)
Kellyanne Conway is now on record as asking for a reporter to tell her his ethnicity as part of her White House defence of Trump's racist tweets.  If there is any justice in the world her career is over.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7875 on: July 17, 2019, 07:11:00 AM »

  • It's pretty clear that George Conway is taking such strident anti-Trump positions so that he will be able to reconcile and absolve his wife when Trump loses, and she'll have an array of post-Trump employment opportunities (she's doing fine as long as Trump remains POTUS)
Kellyanne Conway is now on record as asking for a reporter to tell her his ethnicity as part of her White House defence of Trump's racist tweets.  If there is any justice in the world her career is over.

With the name recognition she has from Conservative media, KC could run for office in many places, or get a job for any of several news networks, tomorrow.

As long as Trump is President, she won't have to. And the things she does prolong the Trump Presidency.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7876 on: July 17, 2019, 07:30:06 AM »

  • It's pretty clear that George Conway is taking such strident anti-Trump positions so that he will be able to reconcile and absolve his wife when Trump loses, and she'll have an array of post-Trump employment opportunities (she's doing fine as long as Trump remains POTUS)
Kellyanne Conway is now on record as asking for a reporter to tell her his ethnicity as part of her White House defence of Trump's racist tweets.  If there is any justice in the world her career is over.

I think given who is the current occupant of the WH, we have already seen there is no justice of this kind.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7877 on: July 17, 2019, 07:55:41 AM »
Kudos to Hurd (the only black Republican house member) for calling out Trump's racism.

FIPurpose

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7878 on: July 17, 2019, 08:12:52 AM »
So I managed to get some alone time and checked twitter last night: saw the headline about John Paul Stevens' passing, and my first thought was, "Is Trump going to get a third Supreme Court appointment?

But instead I dove into the fever stew of ultra-liberal podcasts, and I have to say that I've become a lot more cynical as a result.

  • It's pretty clear that George Conway is taking such strident anti-Trump positions so that he will be able to reconcile and absolve his wife when Trump loses, and she'll have an array of post-Trump employment opportunities (she's doing fine as long as Trump remains POTUS)
  • The Mueller report was terrible for Trump, but Barr basically put up enough fog that conservative media could tug their base away from having to grapple with its content in any meaningful way
  • Thomas Jefferson's rules about speaking on the House floor are dumb.
  • Trump's so obviously defective that we will certainly win in 2020, and finally institute our Socialist paradise in which all student loans are forgiven.
  • Israel and Saudi Arabia < Iran

Stevens retired during Obama. Kagan took his spot.

rantk81

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7879 on: July 17, 2019, 08:54:10 AM »

  • It's pretty clear that George Conway is taking such strident anti-Trump positions so that he will be able to reconcile and absolve his wife when Trump loses, and she'll have an array of post-Trump employment opportunities (she's doing fine as long as Trump remains POTUS)
Kellyanne Conway is now on record as asking for a reporter to tell her his ethnicity as part of her White House defence of Trump's racist tweets.  If there is any justice in the world her career is over.

The problem is much larger than that clip of KC.  The problem is that a lot of the Trump supports are energized and supportive of instances like this (e.g. "yeah, take that you liberal biased media!")


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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7880 on: July 17, 2019, 08:56:06 AM »
Kudos to Hurd (the only black Republican house member) for calling out Trump's racism.

It's up to 4 Republicans now (including Hurd) who broke rank and signed the resolution condemning Trump's racist remarks. Yep, it appears the rest support or simply don't care about Trump's racism. Ohhh Republicans, how far has thy party fallen.   

Aelias

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7881 on: July 17, 2019, 09:34:35 AM »

Trump's so obviously defective that we will certainly win in 2020, and finally institute our Socialist paradise in which all student loans are forgiven.


::shudder::  NO ONE should be that confident that Trump will be perceived as "obviously defective" or that his defeat is inevitable, especially this early in the primaries.  Those people have clearly had way too much blue Kool-Aid and are not to be trusted.

FIPurpose

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7882 on: July 17, 2019, 09:47:50 AM »
Kudos to Hurd (the only black Republican house member) for calling out Trump's racism.

It's up to 4 Republicans now (including Hurd) who broke rank and signed the resolution condemning Trump's racist remarks. Yep, it appears the rest support or simply don't care about Trump's racism. Ohhh Republicans, how far has thy party fallen.

Here's the really stupid part, Pelosi, Chuck, and Biden think that the GOP would actually be interested in compromise after Trump. GOP has proven that they'll whine and complain about everything even if it is a compromised bill. Dems need to get their heads out of their butts and start getting some political pressure on the GOP to move bills. McConnell will almost surely be an obstructionist Senate leader for the next 4 years Trump or not.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7883 on: July 17, 2019, 11:17:50 AM »
and finally institute our Socialist paradise in which all student loans are forgiven.

It just goes to show how far right the US is if you think this is Socialist Paradise.

For all of known human history (until the modern days) loan forgiveness was a fairly standard, sometimes even intervall-standardized occurence. And I am not only talking about people too young to afford anything.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7884 on: July 17, 2019, 01:05:58 PM »
and finally institute our Socialist paradise in which all student loans are forgiven.

It just goes to show how far right the US is if you think this is Socialist Paradise.

For all of known human history (until the modern days) loan forgiveness was a fairly standard, sometimes even intervall-standardized occurence. And I am not only talking about people too young to afford anything.

Addressing student loans specifically, in the US we've had a decades-long slide of reduced direct funding from both federal and state governments.  This has unsurprisingly coincided with tuition hikes that have outplaced inflation. People have written about this ad nauseum here and elsewhere.

One way to view this is that we've shifted much of the cost of higher education from government to the individual. If we were to start massive loan forgiveness program it would basically shift things back towards more funding for higher education, albeit by reimbursing the individual student retroactively rather than support the university directly.

FWIW I'm not supporting the complete elimination of college debt.  I'd much rather see general funding restored, and a broader backstop for individuals that do take out loans.  As is, our current direction is focused on rewarding the top programs through competitive grants and the wealthy who can already afford sizable tuition bills.  By following this model we are doing a disservice to everyone else.

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7885 on: July 17, 2019, 01:16:47 PM »
and finally institute our Socialist paradise in which all student loans are forgiven.

It just goes to show how far right the US is if you think this is Socialist Paradise.

For all of known human history (until the modern days) loan forgiveness was a fairly standard, sometimes even intervall-standardized occurence. And I am not only talking about people too young to afford anything.

Addressing student loans specifically, in the US we've had a decades-long slide of reduced direct funding from both federal and state governments.  This has unsurprisingly coincided with tuition hikes that have outplaced inflation. People have written about this ad nauseum here and elsewhere.

One way to view this is that we've shifted much of the cost of higher education from government to the individual. If we were to start massive loan forgiveness program it would basically shift things back towards more funding for higher education, albeit by reimbursing the individual student retroactively rather than support the university directly.

FWIW I'm not supporting the complete elimination of college debt.  I'd much rather see general funding restored, and a broader backstop for individuals that do take out loans.  As is, our current direction is focused on rewarding the top programs through competitive grants and the wealthy who can already afford sizable tuition bills.  By following this model we are doing a disservice to everyone else.

I remember getting GI Bill increases each year of a couple hundred bucks. Meanwhile my tuition was increasing by the thousands. The last couple of years of college I had to supplement with loans.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7886 on: July 17, 2019, 01:57:28 PM »
Saw something on my Facebook feed someone posted. It made me laugh:
 
"If you were able to make life better for someone else, would you?
Do you wake up in the morning and hope to have a chance to share your blessings with someone else?
Do you believe we are all refining and moving forward throughout history to be kinder?
If so then congratulations on not being a trump supporter."
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 02:35:57 PM by partgypsy »

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7887 on: July 18, 2019, 08:52:27 AM »
So strange.

Some of the most generous people I know voted for Trump, and tried to convince me to vote for Trump.

Life is indeed a rich tapestry.

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Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7889 on: July 18, 2019, 09:06:09 AM »
So strange.

Some of the most generous people I know voted for Trump, and tried to convince me to vote for Trump.

Life is indeed a rich tapestry.

I find the conservatives I know are generous with people they know in real life and think of as "like them."

However, many of them say absolutely atrocious things and hold abhorrently non-generous opinions about people they can abstract to being somehow "not like" them.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7890 on: July 18, 2019, 09:09:17 AM »
So strange.

Some of the most generous people I know voted for Trump, and tried to convince me to vote for Trump.

Life is indeed a rich tapestry.

There are some (including my FIL) who's perception of each party is so deeply rooted that it clouds their views on what they are actually advocating now.  Whenever it comes up, my FIL talks glowingly of the GOP as the "party of fiscal constraint" and "the party that created environmental protection (i.e. the EPA)" and the "free trade party".  Counterintuitively, the ballooning deficit and the gutting of environmental protection, the ongoing trade wars do not lessen his belief that the GOP are the defenders of these causes.  He even (and often) mentions how it was the GOP who first nominated a woman to be VP, and the GOP who first had a black SOS - therefore they are rightfully the party of women and minorities, despite the most white executive branch and legislative representation in a quarter century.

Identity politics is a very powerful force.  I don't quite understand it.


partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7891 on: July 18, 2019, 09:32:51 AM »
So strange.

Some of the most generous people I know voted for Trump, and tried to convince me to vote for Trump.

Life is indeed a rich tapestry.

There are some (including my FIL) who's perception of each party is so deeply rooted that it clouds their views on what they are actually advocating now.  Whenever it comes up, my FIL talks glowingly of the GOP as the "party of fiscal constraint" and "the party that created environmental protection (i.e. the EPA)" and the "free trade party".  Counterintuitively, the ballooning deficit and the gutting of environmental protection, the ongoing trade wars do not lessen his belief that the GOP are the defenders of these causes.  He even (and often) mentions how it was the GOP who first nominated a woman to be VP, and the GOP who first had a black SOS - therefore they are rightfully the party of women and minorities, despite the most white executive branch and legislative representation in a quarter century.

Identity politics is a very powerful force.  I don't quite understand it.

Sounds like the same people who say "But Lincoln was a Republican!"

if you go far enough back, Democrats were as equally as racist, and there has been a lot of corrupt Democratic politicians (I'm from IL). What is odd it seems the majority of Republicans have fled from their roots of: fiscal conservation, claiming themselves as the more moral or ethical choice, as well as the "compassionate conservative" cloak. It seems a strange coalition of, nativism, religious extremism (trying to force their religious values on entire US aka abortion rights and women being 2nd class citizens in general), and powerful special interests (who really, except for some hot button issues have have literally dictated (written) Republican legislation so far).  Maybe it makes nativists and fundamentalists happy, but it is certainly not representative of what the majority of Americans want, which are reasonable wants (safety, health, affordability) and it is abdicating their role of being a good public servant of our nations resources (public lands including national parks and the trees and resources on national lands, public water, water and air quality, fisheries). Conservatives are actually quite "liberal" and wasteful of our natural resources, which belong to ALL of us, and selling them for pennies on the dollar to private interests. They are liberal and wasteful in their energy policies, both in terms of environmental impact, and also in our competitive ability to transition to more sustainable energy use, versus burning it up all now and then having us crash and burn later. Certainly not environmentally conservative in the sense of using emergency orders to allow use of bee killing pesticides, which has downstream effects on our food supply.
Big businesses have always had the power and monies to unduly influence our legislation. This was such a concern even at the time of the founders of this country they explicitly limited corporations power.

Our elected representatives are supposed to serve as a check, by doing what is in the best interest of their citizens. Republicans have seen to have completely forgotten this golden rule, and instead it has been just a big machine of getting in power and rubber stamping their special interests legislation. It's a cycle that has gotten completely out of hand. If they don't vote the way the special interests want, they will withdraw their funding, and the politician won't get re-elected.

Citizen's United ruling, really needs to be revisited. It both granted corporations personhood (which directly contradicts the limits imposed on corporations in the constitution and amendments) but also stated that unlimited spending was their method of "free speech".
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 11:49:14 AM by partgypsy »

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7892 on: July 18, 2019, 11:12:45 AM »
Anyone else notice today marks the two year anniversary of the start of this thread? I wonder if it's the longest running thread on these forums.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7893 on: July 18, 2019, 11:16:39 AM »
Anyone else notice today marks the two year anniversary of the start of this thread? I wonder if it's the longest running thread on these forums.

Amongst others, this one has been going for longer:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/top-is-in/?topicseen

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7894 on: July 18, 2019, 11:51:18 AM »
Anyone else notice today marks the two year anniversary of the start of this thread? I wonder if it's the longest running thread on these forums.

Amongst others, this one has been going for longer:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/top-is-in/?topicseen

I meant page wise. Sorry I wasn't very clear. But 90+ pages on that thread is pretty impressive.   

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7895 on: July 18, 2019, 12:31:08 PM »
So strange.

Some of the most generous people I know voted for Trump, and tried to convince me to vote for Trump.

Life is indeed a rich tapestry.

There are some (including my FIL) who's perception of each party is so deeply rooted that it clouds their views on what they are actually advocating now.  Whenever it comes up, my FIL talks glowingly of the GOP as the "party of fiscal constraint" and "the party that created environmental protection (i.e. the EPA)" and the "free trade party".  Counterintuitively, the ballooning deficit and the gutting of environmental protection, the ongoing trade wars do not lessen his belief that the GOP are the defenders of these causes.  He even (and often) mentions how it was the GOP who first nominated a woman to be VP, and the GOP who first had a black SOS - therefore they are rightfully the party of women and minorities, despite the most white executive branch and legislative representation in a quarter century.

Identity politics is a very powerful force.  I don't quite understand it.

Note: First major party nominee to be female was Geraldine Ferraro, 1984, who was a democrat. Surely that cannot be who your FIL has in mind?

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7896 on: July 18, 2019, 12:33:43 PM »
Note: Nikki Haley will be the first successful female VP nominee in 2024 (Pence will be taken off the ticket for Trump's third term)

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7897 on: July 18, 2019, 02:36:04 PM »
Note: Nikki Haley will be the first successful female VP nominee in 2024 (Pence will be taken off the ticket for Trump's third term)

We can have the same Prime Minister for ever*, but aren't your presidents limited to 2 terms?

Omy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7898 on: July 18, 2019, 02:58:56 PM »
Not after Trump signs the executive order...

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7899 on: July 18, 2019, 03:01:35 PM »
Note: Nikki Haley will be the first successful female VP nominee in 2024 (Pence will be taken off the ticket for Trump's third term)

We can have the same Prime Minister for ever*, but aren't your presidents limited to 2 terms?

I assume talltexan is being facetious. Trump won't run for a 3rd term. The man never wanted to be president in the first place. Heck, I honestly don't expect him to live another 6 years.