Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 823870 times)

RetiredAt63

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7200 on: May 31, 2019, 07:23:59 AM »
I remember when conservatives were in favor of Free TradeTM.

Oh, memories.  Reagan and Mulroney singing When Irish Eyes are smiling.  NAFTA.  Conservatives both.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7201 on: May 31, 2019, 07:32:30 AM »
The tariffs on Mexican products will only increase Mexico's use of tariffs against US farmers of corn. It should hurt the farmers that voted for Trump.
A deal to provide $16 Billion of farm aid for those affected by tariffs may not be effective or timely.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7202 on: May 31, 2019, 07:33:30 AM »
But--in truth--the backlash unleashed by NAFTA is the force that brought us Trump (via Pat Buchanan).

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7203 on: May 31, 2019, 07:36:16 AM »
But--in truth--the backlash unleashed by NAFTA is the force that brought us Trump (via Pat Buchanan).

So a rejection of fiscally conservative ideals brought in a socially conservative leader?

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7204 on: May 31, 2019, 07:52:14 AM »
But--in truth--the backlash unleashed by NAFTA is the force that brought us Trump (via Pat Buchanan).

I get that NAFTA was signed under a democratic president (Clinton), but it was conceived by a Republican president (Bush Sr.) and passed with the approval of 34 (of 43) GOP senators and 132 (of 176) GOP House members.  In both chambers GOP support was greater than Dem support despite being in the minorityNAFTA was solidly a GOP held agreement. . It was the Democrats that threatened not to pass NAFTA.

I realize that perception is not reality, but it still blows my mind that somehow NAFTA can be used by the current crop of Republicans as 'evidence' of bad Democratic policies. 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 07:55:39 AM by nereo »

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7205 on: May 31, 2019, 08:25:10 AM »
Part of NAFTA was the routing of the labor unions.

In other news, I was relieved when Stephen Moore's (Co-author of Trumponomics) nomination to the Fed was sunk, but this Judy Shelton person isn't making me feel much better. Wrote a book about how great the gold standard was in the early 2000's. (Spoiler: it is NOT great)

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7206 on: May 31, 2019, 08:47:57 AM »
So a rejection of fiscally conservative ideals brought in a socially conservative leader?

To be fair, Mr. "Grab 'em by the pussy" is only a social conservative when talking about what other people should do with their lives.

Personally, he's a thrice-divorced atheist draft dodger who not only fucks around on all of his wives, but rawdogs porn stars while doing it.  He's not exactly a paragon of civic duty and traditional family values.  I know that his policies look extremely socially conservative but that's mostly a put-on to convince bigots to vote for him. 

Unfortunately, you don't have to actually believe in bigoted things to enact bigoted opinions.  Trump is like the worse possible combination in this case, privately doing all of the worst things from one end of the spectrum while publicly doing all of the worst things from the other end.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7207 on: May 31, 2019, 08:52:00 AM »
So a rejection of fiscally conservative ideals brought in a socially conservative leader?

To be fair, Mr. "Grab 'em by the pussy" is only a social conservative when talking about what other people should do with their lives.

Personally, he's a thrice-divorced atheist draft dodger who not only fucks around on all of his wives, but rawdogs porn stars while doing it.  He's not exactly a paragon of civic duty and traditional family values.  I know that his policies look extremely socially conservative but that's mostly a put-on to convince bigots to vote for him.

In my experience, this is not unusual for social conservatives.  I suspect it's part of why none of them have any concerns supporting him.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7208 on: May 31, 2019, 09:06:40 AM »
Part of NAFTA was the routing of the labor unions.
Isn't this also a strongly held GOP ideal?  For decades Dems have wanted strong labor unions to enrich their workers, while the GOP has argued that labor unions place unrealistic burdens on companies and lower productivity and competitiveness.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7209 on: May 31, 2019, 09:13:34 AM »
So a rejection of fiscally conservative ideals brought in a socially conservative leader?

To be fair, Mr. "Grab 'em by the pussy" is only a social conservative when talking about what other people should do with their lives.

Personally, he's a thrice-divorced atheist draft dodger who not only fucks around on all of his wives, but rawdogs porn stars while doing it.  He's not exactly a paragon of civic duty and traditional family values.  I know that his policies look extremely socially conservative but that's mostly a put-on to convince bigots to vote for him. 

Unfortunately, you don't have to actually believe in bigoted things to enact bigoted opinions.  Trump is like the worse possible combination in this case, privately doing all of the worst things from one end of the spectrum while publicly doing all of the worst things from the other end.

Perhaps Trump doesn't live his own life by the values that Evangelical Christians maintain are important. But if Roe is struck down, it pretty much guarantees that a group of people will think he was the best President ever for decades to come.

Before you dismiss this narrative, consider the role that LBJ (whom we've accepted was racist personally) played in signing the Civil Rights Bills.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7210 on: May 31, 2019, 10:12:25 AM »
So a rejection of fiscally conservative ideals brought in a socially conservative leader?

To be fair, Mr. "Grab 'em by the pussy" is only a social conservative when talking about what other people should do with their lives.

Personally, he's a thrice-divorced atheist draft dodger who not only fucks around on all of his wives, but rawdogs porn stars while doing it.  He's not exactly a paragon of civic duty and traditional family values.  I know that his policies look extremely socially conservative but that's mostly a put-on to convince bigots to vote for him. 

Unfortunately, you don't have to actually believe in bigoted things to enact bigoted opinions.  Trump is like the worse possible combination in this case, privately doing all of the worst things from one end of the spectrum while publicly doing all of the worst things from the other end.

Perhaps Trump doesn't live his own life by the values that Evangelical Christians maintain are important. But if Roe is struck down, it pretty much guarantees that a group of people will think he was the best President ever for decades to come.


100% agree.

Which brings us back to the perennial question of why those people care so much more about a fertilized egg and donít give one single shit about actual already born people.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7211 on: May 31, 2019, 11:16:04 AM »

Perhaps Trump doesn't live his own life by the values that Evangelical Christians maintain are important. But if Roe is struck down, it pretty much guarantees that a group of people will think he was the best President ever for decades to come.


Here's the problem though - while I have no doubt that a subset of the population will applaud Trump should Roe v Wade be reversed, these people are in the minority.  By all accounts 2/3rds of Americans want at least limited availability to abortions.  Making abortion illegal under all circumstances is an unpopular opinion even among registered Republicans, and particularly unpopular among people under the age of 50.

So... like with Trade and Tariffs and Foreign Policy Trump is going against decades of his own party's platform in order to satisfy the most vocal minorities within the party, and quite possibly at the expense of future Republicans.


GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7212 on: May 31, 2019, 11:27:31 AM »
 . . . and yet . . . there's no push back of any kind from the Republican party.  Trump enjoys their full support in everything he does.  Which makes me not believe those popularity polls.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7213 on: May 31, 2019, 11:29:56 AM »

Perhaps Trump doesn't live his own life by the values that Evangelical Christians maintain are important. But if Roe is struck down, it pretty much guarantees that a group of people will think he was the best President ever for decades to come.


Here's the problem though - while I have no doubt that a subset of the population will applaud Trump should Roe v Wade be reversed, these people are in the minority.  By all accounts 2/3rds of Americans want at least limited availability to abortions.  Making abortion illegal under all circumstances is an unpopular opinion even among registered Republicans, and particularly unpopular among people under the age of 50.

So... like with Trade and Tariffs and Foreign Policy Trump is going against decades of his own party's platform in order to satisfy the most vocal minorities within the party, and quite possibly at the expense of future Republicans.




Yeah... but as far as I can tell, the Republicans who think abortion should be legal under some circumstances aren't militant about it... they don't really care that much. Like, the ones I've talked to are like, "Oh, yes, I definitely think there should be an exception for rape and incest, but..." *trail off, shrug* "I mean, it is still a baby..." *looks uncomfortable, changes the subject to how the democrats all want to tax us to death or something*

Like, they really don't give a shit. Making a girl who's been raped by her father carry a fetus to term makes them sort of uncomfortable, but... they are still pretty okay with just ignoring the implications for the actual, born girl who will have to suffer through this. They minimize it, or they say, "Oh, that's not very many of the cases" or something -- anything -- that will let them change the subject.

They don't give a shit about the actual already-born women. They are actually less comfortable with the idea of being on the same side as a filthy liberal than they are with the idea of forcing a woman to carry a fertilized egg to term no matter what the consequences are to her. Trump and the GOP know this. So they push for an end to Roe, knowing it will whip the whackadoodle far-right fringe into a cheering, whooping frenzy, and hoping this formula that is working for them so far keeps working.

Which it probably will. Because even though under the GOP, the US will go back to the closet coat hanger abortion era, at least transgender Muslim Mexicans wonít overthrow the government and impose sharia law and universal health care.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 11:36:48 AM by Kris »

ysette9

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7214 on: May 31, 2019, 12:23:05 PM »
I still canít wrap my head around the idea that it would be possible for the US to take such an enormous step backwards into the dark ages. Seriously? It is like contemplating reversing course on slavery or child labor laws or something. How can any sane adult born in the past hundred years possibly think the basic human right to bodily autonomy is up for consideration? Iím appalled.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7215 on: May 31, 2019, 12:35:47 PM »
(snip)
They don't give a shit about the actual already-born women. They are actually less comfortable with the idea of being on the same side as a filthy liberal than they are with the idea of forcing a woman to carry a fertilized egg to term no matter what the consequences are to her. Trump and the GOP know this. So they push for an end to Roe, knowing it will whip the whackadoodle far-right fringe into a cheering, whooping frenzy, and hoping this formula that is working for them so far keeps working.
(snip)

This pretty much sums up the thought process of Republicans I know, a deep sense of satisfaction when libs go bonkers.  They couldn't be bothered to waste a brain cell puzzling out if the thing driving liberals crazy is actually something they want or support.  It would be unfathomable for something that drives a lib crazy to be bad policy for everybody.  The world is vanishingly simple as that, black and white.  That and Trump is incredibly good at making them feel like they are winning, it is obvious that they are finally winning, and that everyone else misunderstands them and are taking advantage of them, but they will emerge victorious.  It's just around the corner folks! 

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7216 on: May 31, 2019, 12:37:22 PM »
. . . and yet . . . there's no push back of any kind from the Republican party.  Trump enjoys their full support in everything he does.  Which makes me not believe those popularity polls.

My thinking on this issue was affected a bit by this David French piece: https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/alabama-and-georgia-are-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-against-roe-good-2/

While he doesn't necessarily express the following explicitly, I came away from reading the piece thinking:

  • When Roe v. Wade is struck down, indeed many states will make abortion hard to obtain. But there will also be states--New York, Illinois, and the predictable coastal ones--that immediately act to make it safe and available.
  • There are a group of Conservatives who don't like Roe, but will accept states using legislative process to determine the availability of abortion
  • Finally, a bunch of conservatives are supporting Trump--distasteful as he is--because they want to get this down; once Roe is gone, they will be able to support other conservative candidates and movements without the tarnish to their characters caused by backing Trump

RetiredAt63

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #7217 on: May 31, 2019, 01:55:28 PM »
    once Roe is gone, they will be able to support other conservative candidates and movements without the tarnish to their characters caused by backing Trump[/li]
    [/list]

    I guess they don't care about his foreign policy?  He is having all sorts of effects on international trade, and alienating all of the US's traditional allies.

    partgypsy

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7218 on: May 31, 2019, 02:07:18 PM »
    . . . and yet . . . there's no push back of any kind from the Republican party.  Trump enjoys their full support in everything he does.  Which makes me not believe those popularity polls.

    My thinking on this issue was affected a bit by this David French piece: https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/alabama-and-georgia-are-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-against-roe-good-2/

    While he doesn't necessarily express the following explicitly, I came away from reading the piece thinking:

    • When Roe v. Wade is struck down, indeed many states will make abortion hard to obtain. But there will also be states--New York, Illinois, and the predictable coastal ones--that immediately act to make it safe and available.
    • There are a group of Conservatives who don't like Roe, but will accept states using legislative process to determine the availability of abortion
    • Finally, a bunch of conservatives are supporting Trump--distasteful as he is--because they want to get this down; once Roe is gone, they will be able to support other conservative candidates and movements without the tarnish to their characters caused by backing Trump

    Well if they think it's going to be settled this way I think you are wrong. for one the majority of women who have gotten used to having certain rights and freedoms in a first world country, are not going to be "down" living in what is essentially sharia law. 2nd conservative politicians who are weak in actually accomplishing anything of substance want to keep this issue around as long as possible because it is a great wedge issue, to pit people against each other and bring that base to the polls.   

    DavidAnnArbor

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7219 on: May 31, 2019, 05:02:37 PM »
    The tariffs on Mexican products will only increase Mexico's use of tariffs against US farmers of corn. It should hurt the farmers that voted for Trump.
    A deal to provide $16 Billion of farm aid for those affected by tariffs may not be effective or timely.

    I need to add that the Mexican tariffs will destroy the auto manufacturing supply chain.

    Kyle Schuant

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7220 on: May 31, 2019, 05:07:07 PM »
    I still canít wrap my head around the idea that it would be possible for the US to take such an enormous step backwards into the dark ages. Seriously? It is like contemplating reversing course on slavery or child labor laws or something. How can any sane adult born in the past hundred years possibly think the basic human right to bodily autonomy is up for consideration? Iím appalled.
    And the people who marched against the coup against Erdogan marched for democracy, which Erdogan is taking away.

    And people voted for Duterte, who has death squads.

    It is counterintuitive, but quite possible for people to freely vote to reduce their freedoms.

    frugalecon

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7221 on: May 31, 2019, 05:11:39 PM »
    The tariffs on Mexican products will only increase Mexico's use of tariffs against US farmers of corn. It should hurt the farmers that voted for Trump.
    A deal to provide $16 Billion of farm aid for those affected by tariffs may not be effective or timely.

    I need to add that the Mexican tariffs will destroy the auto manufacturing supply chain.

    If this causes a severe recession in Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, then that is fine by me.

    DavidAnnArbor

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7222 on: May 31, 2019, 05:14:21 PM »
    The tariffs on Mexican products will only increase Mexico's use of tariffs against US farmers of corn. It should hurt the farmers that voted for Trump.
    A deal to provide $16 Billion of farm aid for those affected by tariffs may not be effective or timely.

    I need to add that the Mexican tariffs will destroy the auto manufacturing supply chain.

    If this causes a severe recession in Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, then that is fine by me.

    It probably will. Thank goddess I'm FI.

    On another note, another day, another mass shooting, multiple people dead. We must cling to our guns and religion.

    Glenstache

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7223 on: May 31, 2019, 05:38:04 PM »
    On another note, another day, another mass shooting, multiple people dead. We must cling to our guns and religion.
    Fuck.

    nereo

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7224 on: May 31, 2019, 05:56:13 PM »

    On another note, another day, another mass shooting, multiple people dead. We must cling to our guns and religion.

    Virginia has some of the more permissive gun laws.  Concealed carry permits and open carry without a permit.  Vehicle carry. Fully automatic weapon permits. It's quite common to see people driving around with gun racks or shopping at big box stores with a pistol on their hip.
    When will this narrative that 'the solution to shootings is yet more guns' lose its luster?


    GuitarStv

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7225 on: May 31, 2019, 06:06:08 PM »

    On another note, another day, another mass shooting, multiple people dead. We must cling to our guns and religion.

    Virginia has some of the more permissive gun laws.  Concealed carry permits and open carry without a permit.  Vehicle carry. Fully automatic weapon permits. It's quite common to see people driving around with gun racks or shopping at big box stores with a pistol on their hip.
    When will this narrative that 'the solution to shootings is yet more guns' lose its luster?

    It's still legal to not own guns there though.  That's probably the problem.

    scottish

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7226 on: May 31, 2019, 08:18:00 PM »
    Especially in schools.  it should be illegal to go to school unarmed.    If all the students were armed, a shooter wouldn't have a chance.   He'd be full of lead as soon as his carbine came up.

    DavidAnnArbor

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7227 on: May 31, 2019, 08:27:27 PM »
    And now for the adult response / reaction to gun violence we have a column from Nicholas Kristof:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/06/opinion/how-to-reduce-shootings.html

    ysette9

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7228 on: May 31, 2019, 09:05:46 PM »
    And now for the adult response / reaction to gun violence we have a column from Nicholas Kristof:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/06/opinion/how-to-reduce-shootings.html
    Great article.

    nnls

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7229 on: May 31, 2019, 10:52:23 PM »
    And now for the adult response / reaction to gun violence we have a column from Nicholas Kristof:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/06/opinion/how-to-reduce-shootings.html
    Great article.

    I agree, some great points made

    EscapeVelocity2020

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7230 on: May 31, 2019, 11:21:39 PM »
    And now for the adult response / reaction to gun violence we have a column from Nicholas Kristof:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/06/opinion/how-to-reduce-shootings.html
    Great article.

    I agree, some great points made

    Indeed, something has to start steering society in the right direction back toward the balance we desire.

    Quote
    Gun enthusiasts often protest: Cars kill about as many people as guns, and we donít ban them! No, but automobiles are actually a model for the public health approach Iím suggesting.

    We donít ban cars, but we work hard to regulate them Ė and limit access to them Ė so as to reduce the death toll they cause. This has been spectacularly successful, reducing the death rate per 100 million miles driven by 95 percent since 1921.

    cerat0n1a

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7231 on: June 01, 2019, 06:24:21 AM »

    Maybe not the right place for this. But, I recently listened to Peter Attia's podcast interview with Matthew Walker on sleep.

    I think in North America we have a hero culture re: lack of sleep. Saying that they don't sleep (presumably because they aren't weak and need to work hard) is something that links both Trump and B.Clinton. But not sleeping isn't a badge of honor. It leads to bad decisions (a poor trait in the POTUS) and lots of bad health outcomes...particularly Alzheimer's.

    Margaret Thatcher used to make a big thing about only sleeping 4-5 hours per night, in exactly the same way. She clearly had some mental health problems before a prolong spell of dementia. Ronald Reagan had Alzheimer's too, of course.

    GuitarStv

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7232 on: June 01, 2019, 02:19:01 PM »
    And now for the adult response / reaction to gun violence we have a column from Nicholas Kristof:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/06/opinion/how-to-reduce-shootings.html
    Great article.

    I agree, some great points made

    Indeed, something has to start steering society in the right direction back toward the balance we desire.

    [[citation needed]]

    I've seen no evidence whatsoever that the majority of Americans want to live in a society where gun violence is not a problem.

    John Galt incarnate!

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7233 on: June 01, 2019, 03:39:01 PM »
    . . . and yet . . . there's no push back of any kind from the Republican party.  Trump enjoys their full support in everything he does.  Which makes me not believe those popularity polls.

    My thinking on this issue was affected a bit by this David French piece: https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/alabama-and-georgia-are-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-against-roe-good-2/

    While he doesn't necessarily express the following explicitly, I came away from reading the piece thinking:

    • When Roe v. Wade is struck down, indeed many states will make abortion hard to obtain. But there will also be states--New York, Illinois, and the predictable coastal ones--that immediately act to make it safe and available.
    • There are a group of Conservatives who don't like Roe, but will accept states using legislative process to determine the availability of abortion
    • Finally, a bunch of conservatives are supporting Trump--distasteful as he is--because they want to get this down; once Roe is gone, they will be able to support other conservative candidates and movements without the tarnish to their characters caused by backing Trump

    The founding principles of federalism and separation of powers command  judicial deference to every States' constitutional exercise of its  police power under the Tenth Amendment. As the future unfolds, and the Court rules against  challenges to increasingly burdensome anti-abortion  legislation, which it will do in some cases,   Roe's durability and longevity as a settled and reaffirmed precedent of the Supreme Court  will be unavailing to women who live in  States  that enact stringent anti-abortion statutes. If five justices  of the Supreme Court ever agree that Roe ought to be overruled they won't overrule it  because they don't have to: Judicial deference and federalism will operate to do it for them.
    « Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 03:43:02 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

    Tom Bri

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7234 on: June 02, 2019, 10:22:40 AM »
    I remember when conservatives were in favor of Free TradeTM.

    Trump isn't a conservative. If I had to pinpoint him, I'd say he's a right-populist. Possibly he really is, or more likely he searched out a handful of right-populist causes and jumped in front to lead the parade. So we get anti-immigration, anti-abortion, pro-guns, ridiculing the lefty news media and the more inane lefty politicos and so on.

    It amuses me to no end to see Democrats' heads pop when he treats them with the same tactics that they have always used to smear even the tamest of Republicans like Mitch Romney. Republicans are used to unjust ridicule but this is new for Democrats and it still has a lot of sting for many.

    John Galt incarnate!

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7235 on: June 02, 2019, 10:30:17 AM »
    I remember when conservatives were in favor of Free TradeTM.

    Trump isn't a conservative. If I had to pinpoint him, I'd say he's a right-populist. .

    The "drain the swamp" trope embraced by Trump stamps him as a reform populist.

    Sanders too is a reform populist.

    bacchi

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7236 on: June 02, 2019, 10:44:52 AM »
    It amuses me to no end to see Democrats' heads pop when he treats them with the same tactics that they have always used to smear even the tamest of Republicans like Mitch Romney. Republicans are used to unjust ridicule but this is new for Democrats and it still has a lot of sting for many.

    Only the fiercest of Trump supporters think Trump has as much decorum as Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, or Reagan.

    LennStar

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7237 on: June 02, 2019, 11:05:04 AM »
    I remember when conservatives were in favor of Free TradeTM.

    Trump isn't a conservative. If I had to pinpoint him, I'd say he's a right-populist. .

    The "drain the swamp" trope embraced by Trump stamps him as a reform populist.

    Sanders too is a reform populist.
    The difference is that Trump means "to put in my own house-grown frogs" when he says that. And you have at least grant him that, he has a hand for picking the worst possible person for a job.

    If there would be a "safe driving" ministry, he would find someone who had fathered a child by having sex while driving stoned and drunken, while holding the mobile in one hand and shooting a gun out of the window with the other hand.

    John Galt incarnate!

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7238 on: June 02, 2019, 11:29:26 AM »
    It amuses me to no end to see Democrats' heads pop when he treats them with the same tactics that they have always used to smear even the tamest of Republicans like Mitch Romney. Republicans are used to unjust ridicule but this is new for Democrats and it still has a lot of sting for many.

    Only the fiercest of Trump supporters think Trump has as much decorum as Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, or Reagan.

    Every candidate for president must observe a minimum standard of decorum.

    Trump failed to do so when, during a televised debate among Republican candidates, he said "blood coming out of her wherever" to, or of, a woman moderating the debate.



    « Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 11:32:22 AM by John Galt incarnate! »

    Roadrunner53

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7239 on: June 02, 2019, 11:42:46 AM »
    I don't get it when Trump has insulted every ethnic group, women, disabled and people feel he will win the 2020! He has done outrageous things, said outrageous things, done stupid things, lied about everything possible. He caters to dictators, disses John McCain, prisoner of war, spends a fortune flying back and forth to Mara Lago every weekend and he gets money when Secret Service spends nights at Mara Lago. He thumbs his nose at the emoluments laws, does not believe in climate change and won't work with scientists as other countries do.  Talks filthy talk about women and his wife brushes it off as 'boy talk' or 'locker room talk'. Pays off women to hide his infidelity and then has the balls to say he is the most transparent president ever. Hardy, har har...What about those tax returns Mr. Transparent.

    Since he has pissed off almost everyone...WHO is voting for him?

    Anyone getting phone calls with the caller ID Trump Alert? I did and it is a recorded message that almost sounds like it is a real person, not a recording but is it BS and they want campaign funds. Needless to say I blocked it. However, as usual with robocalls another came thru with a different number. GRRRR!!! Normally I do not answer my phone due to robo's but I was curious with the Trump Alert. Should have known!


    John Galt incarnate!

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7240 on: June 02, 2019, 12:01:47 PM »


    Since he has pissed off almost everyone...WHO is voting for him?





    When I heard Trump's execrable  insult of the moderator I decided I could not vote for him.

    According to Vox, Trump said  ďthere has to be some form of punishmentĒ for women who choose to have an abortion.
    « Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 12:13:45 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

    jinga nation

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7241 on: June 02, 2019, 01:47:07 PM »
    And now for the adult response / reaction to gun violence we have a column from Nicholas Kristof:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/06/opinion/how-to-reduce-shootings.html

    Good article.

    The right-wing wackos will say the "public health approach" is an invasion of people's privacy or some crazy baloney. Facts don't matter to some people, it's (misguided) hearts over brains.

    Glenstache

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7242 on: June 02, 2019, 01:47:14 PM »
    I don't get it when Trump has insulted every ethnic group, women, disabled and people feel he will win the 2020! He has done outrageous things, said outrageous things, done stupid things, lied about everything possible. He caters to dictators, disses John McCain, prisoner of war, spends a fortune flying back and forth to Mara Lago every weekend and he gets money when Secret Service spends nights at Mara Lago. He thumbs his nose at the emoluments laws, does not believe in climate change and won't work with scientists as other countries do.  Talks filthy talk about women and his wife brushes it off as 'boy talk' or 'locker room talk'. Pays off women to hide his infidelity and then has the balls to say he is the most transparent president ever. Hardy, har har...What about those tax returns Mr. Transparent.

    Since he has pissed off almost everyone...WHO is voting for him?

    Anyone getting phone calls with the caller ID Trump Alert? I did and it is a recorded message that almost sounds like it is a real person, not a recording but is it BS and they want campaign funds. Needless to say I blocked it. However, as usual with robocalls another came thru with a different number. GRRRR!!! Normally I do not answer my phone due to robo's but I was curious with the Trump Alert. Should have known!
    I'm willing to bet that you have not been watching Fox news for the last 2 (or 20) years.

    Roadrunner53

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7243 on: June 02, 2019, 02:51:52 PM »
    I don't get it when Trump has insulted every ethnic group, women, disabled and people feel he will win the 2020! He has done outrageous things, said outrageous things, done stupid things, lied about everything possible. He caters to dictators, disses John McCain, prisoner of war, spends a fortune flying back and forth to Mara Lago every weekend and he gets money when Secret Service spends nights at Mara Lago. He thumbs his nose at the emoluments laws, does not believe in climate change and won't work with scientists as other countries do.  Talks filthy talk about women and his wife brushes it off as 'boy talk' or 'locker room talk'. Pays off women to hide his infidelity and then has the balls to say he is the most transparent president ever. Hardy, har har...What about those tax returns Mr. Transparent.

    Since he has pissed off almost everyone...WHO is voting for him?

    Anyone getting phone calls with the caller ID Trump Alert? I did and it is a recorded message that almost sounds like it is a real person, not a recording but is it BS and they want campaign funds. Needless to say I blocked it. However, as usual with robocalls another came thru with a different number. GRRRR!!! Normally I do not answer my phone due to robo's but I was curious with the Trump Alert. Should have known!
    I'm willing to bet that you have not been watching Fox news for the last 2 (or 20) years.

    No, do not watch fox news. Why do you say that?

    Glenstache

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7244 on: June 02, 2019, 03:17:30 PM »
    I don't get it when Trump has insulted every ethnic group, women, disabled and people feel he will win the 2020! He has done outrageous things, said outrageous things, done stupid things, lied about everything possible. He caters to dictators, disses John McCain, prisoner of war, spends a fortune flying back and forth to Mara Lago every weekend and he gets money when Secret Service spends nights at Mara Lago. He thumbs his nose at the emoluments laws, does not believe in climate change and won't work with scientists as other countries do.  Talks filthy talk about women and his wife brushes it off as 'boy talk' or 'locker room talk'. Pays off women to hide his infidelity and then has the balls to say he is the most transparent president ever. Hardy, har har...What about those tax returns Mr. Transparent.

    Since he has pissed off almost everyone...WHO is voting for him?

    Anyone getting phone calls with the caller ID Trump Alert? I did and it is a recorded message that almost sounds like it is a real person, not a recording but is it BS and they want campaign funds. Needless to say I blocked it. However, as usual with robocalls another came thru with a different number. GRRRR!!! Normally I do not answer my phone due to robo's but I was curious with the Trump Alert. Should have known!
    I'm willing to bet that you have not been watching Fox news for the last 2 (or 20) years.

    No, do not watch fox news. Why do you say that?
    Watching Fox News, or reading their "news" webpage is like stepping into a completely different universe. All of the things discussed above are given only the most cursory acknowledgement. If that is your main media diet, and don't really care what is going on outside of your immediate daily grind, then Trump may be perceived as a bit unconventional, but doing the job and making the requisite appearances. So yeah, I can see a lot of the country not really caring about all of those things that drive many on this thread (left/right/center inclusive) bonkers.

    Kyle Schuant

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    scottish

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7246 on: June 02, 2019, 03:52:34 PM »
    Speaking about the future, is the orange one starting a war with Iran?    The timing is good to distract from his economic failures prior to the 2020 election...

    Fox news says:  "Trump says war will mean 'official end of Iran,' warns 'never threaten the United States again'"

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-war-iran-never-threaten-united-states

    I sincerely hope that American servicemen and women do not lose their lives in combat with Iran as part of a pre-election ploy.

    partgypsy

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7247 on: June 02, 2019, 08:36:50 PM »
    I have a friend from Russia. And me and another friend we're talking and she says she can't believe all the support Trump has (39,40%). And my Russian friend says, it is not unbelievable at all, it is very believable, he has his own ministry of propaganda. We look at her confused. And says Fox news. If you watch Fox news, you will soon think that Trump is doing a great job. And alot of people watch fox news and nothing else. She also mentioned since Trump can't actively suppress the press, he is doing the next best thing by pumping it full of misinformation so legitimate media is being buried in B's and so people just give up on the idea of actually being informed and tune out. She seems cynical, but it chillingly sounds close to home.
    « Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 09:03:52 PM by partgypsy »

    Tom Bri

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7248 on: June 02, 2019, 08:55:32 PM »
    It amuses me to no end to see Democrats' heads pop when he treats them with the same tactics that they have always used to smear even the tamest of Republicans like Mitch Romney. Republicans are used to unjust ridicule but this is new for Democrats and it still has a lot of sting for many.

    Only the fiercest of Trump supporters think Trump has as much decorum as Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, or Reagan.

    Decorum is certainly not a Trump strength!

    John Galt incarnate!

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    Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
    « Reply #7249 on: June 02, 2019, 09:03:48 PM »



    The difference is that Trump means "to put in my own house-grown frogs" when he says that. And you have at least grant him that, he has a hand for picking the worst possible person for a job.

    If there would be a "safe driving" ministry, he would find someone who had fathered a child by having sex while driving stoned and drunken, while holding the mobile in one hand and shooting a gun out of the window with the other hand.

    I just showed my friend your post. He burst out laughing when he read "house-grown frogs."
    « Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 09:06:29 PM by John Galt incarnate! »