Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 583754 times)

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6200 on: February 28, 2019, 11:38:53 AM »
Yes, Pres. Trump goes golfing more than Obama if you count days.

But it's about the same when you go by strokes.

LennStar

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6201 on: February 28, 2019, 11:40:18 AM »
That's not really why I brought it up.  I'm fine with presidents golfing, or bowling or clearing brush or whatever it is they like to do as time allows.
My post was to point out the hypocrisy of Trump having been so critical of Obama's golfing, only to do so and more when he took office. My objection is the double-standard, not the golfing.

I think I do not have to fear rebuttals when i say that, when it comes to double-standards, Trump is GREATEST president of all times!!

And back to topic...
52-47 The #Senate CONFIRMED Andrew Wheeler to be Administrator of the EPA.

A coal lobbyist leads the environment protection. That's Trump's politics in a nutshell.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6202 on: February 28, 2019, 11:40:55 AM »
Yes, Pres. Trump goes golfing more than Obama if you count days.

But it's about the same when you go by strokes.
I'd love to see them square up on the court though.  Taxpayers are allowed to ask for requests, right?

Dabnasty

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6203 on: February 28, 2019, 11:44:18 AM »
Yes, Pres. Trump goes golfing more than Obama if you count days.

But it's about the same when you go by strokes.
I'd love to see them square up on the court though.  Taxpayers are allowed to ask for requests, right?
Trump won't play basketball, that would use up too much of his precious batteries.

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6204 on: February 28, 2019, 11:56:18 AM »
Yes, Pres. Trump goes golfing more than Obama if you count days.

But it's about the same when you go by strokes.
I'd love to see them square up on the court though.  Taxpayers are allowed to ask for requests, right?
Trump won't play basketball, that would use up too much of his precious batteries.

Don't forget about the bone spurs

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6205 on: February 28, 2019, 12:00:46 PM »
That's not really why I brought it up.  I'm fine with presidents golfing, or bowling or clearing brush or whatever it is they like to do as time allows.
My post was to point out the hypocrisy of Trump having been so critical of Obama's golfing, only to do so and more when he took office. My objection is the double-standard, not the golfing.

I think I do not have to fear rebuttals when i say that, when it comes to double-standards, Trump is GREATEST president of all times!!

And back to topic...
52-47 The #Senate CONFIRMED Andrew Wheeler to be Administrator of the EPA.

A coal lobbyist leads the environment protection. That's Trump's politics in a nutshell.

That's a bit like putting Bill Cosby in charge of sexual assault investigations.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6206 on: February 28, 2019, 01:27:19 PM »
You mean like putting Kris Kobach in charge of voter fraud investigations?

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6207 on: February 28, 2019, 01:32:04 PM »
Or Donald Trump in charge of military decisions involving Russia?



Wait . . .

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6208 on: February 28, 2019, 02:05:47 PM »
Can Trump be charged with being a draft dodger?

sherr

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6209 on: February 28, 2019, 02:24:23 PM »
Can Trump be charged with being a draft dodger?

No, President Carter pardoned all draft dodgers on his first day in office. Plus the statute of limitations on draft-dodging is when you turn 31.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 02:27:08 PM by sherr »

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6210 on: February 28, 2019, 02:56:19 PM »
Can Trump be charged with being a draft dodger?

No, President Carter pardoned all draft dodgers on his first day in office. Plus the statute of limitations on draft-dodging is when you turn 31.

I didn't realize that. One more thing he gets away with.

sequoia

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6211 on: February 28, 2019, 03:37:32 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-begins-one-one-kim-jong-un-tempering-expectations-n977466

HANOI, Vietnam ó No deal.

President Donald Trump and North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un abruptly broke off their nuclear summit here Thursday, canceling a planned signing ceremony.

"Sometimes you have to walk and I think that was one of these times," Trump said at a press conference that was moved forward by almost two hours after the talks collapsed.

-----------

Whoa... interesting... I thought he likes to get cozy with dictators of the world lmao

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6212 on: February 28, 2019, 03:45:33 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-begins-one-one-kim-jong-un-tempering-expectations-n977466

HANOI, Vietnam ó No deal.

President Donald Trump and North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un abruptly broke off their nuclear summit here Thursday, canceling a planned signing ceremony.

"Sometimes you have to walk and I think that was one of these times," Trump said at a press conference that was moved forward by almost two hours after the talks collapsed.

-----------

Whoa... interesting... I thought he likes to get cozy with dictators of the world lmao

Well... he does... I have no idea why he walked away. I honestly thought he would cave to Kim without getting anything in return.

On the other hand, he did basically give Kim a shrug and a free pass on torturing and murdering American citizen Otto Warmbier. Hell, even famous GOP toady Rick Santorum is outraged.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/826392/rick-santorum-furious-over-trumps-reprehensible-otto-warmbier-comments

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6213 on: February 28, 2019, 03:47:38 PM »
"Sometimes you have to walk and I think that was one of these times," Trump said at a press conference....
One can only hope that he is trying that phrase out for other situations - like maybe his presidency.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 03:51:47 PM by Glenstache »

better late

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6214 on: February 28, 2019, 03:50:57 PM »
Gotta say this moment in this presidency is making me nervous.

scottish

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6215 on: February 28, 2019, 03:57:18 PM »
Not to worry.   Trump has fulfilled Kim's dream of having the US prez come and beg him for concessions after flying for 15 hours.   So the norks will not bomb you out of existence.

ysette9

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6216 on: February 28, 2019, 04:35:37 PM »
My husband is currently in China for business and the press there is reporting that talks as a failure for Trump. He asked me about how it is being reported in the US because he was curious whether that was just the Chinese perspective.

I had to disappoint him because I am limiting my news intake for better quality of life, but at least there is this thread for carefully curated news summaries. :)

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6217 on: February 28, 2019, 04:49:13 PM »
Well... he does... I have no idea why he walked away. I honestly thought he would cave to Kim without getting anything in return.

That's exactly what he did, just by showing up.

What North Korea wants more than anything else is to be taken seriously.  They want the prestige of being a global player, and just sitting down face to face with the US President gives them the one thing they most crave, respectability.  They pursued nuclear weapons so that they could join the grown-up table, and Trump laid them a lovely adult place setting next to his. 

Other nations currently under difficult economic sanctions for human rights abuses will see this and learn the lesson.  You think Iran will give up their nuclear ambitions after seeing how perfectly it worked out for North Korea?  The US has been ignoring the Kims for generations precisely because even having that face to face conversation legitimizes their dictatorship as a legitimate government and a nuclear power on the global stage.  Whatever agreement they come to (or don't) is entirely secondary.  Kim wins just by getting Trump to show up.

Trump gets played wherever he goes.  He must be actively ignoring his diplomatic corps the same way he ignores his intelligence community, because he looks like a dummy every time he goes abroad.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6218 on: February 28, 2019, 04:54:27 PM »
Well... he does... I have no idea why he walked away. I honestly thought he would cave to Kim without getting anything in return.

That's exactly what he did, just by showing up.

What North Korea wants more than anything else is to be taken seriously.  They want the prestige of being a global player, and just sitting down face to face with the US President gives them the one thing they most crave, respectability.  They pursued nuclear weapons so that they could join the grown-up table, and Trump laid them a lovely adult place setting next to his. 

Other nations currently under difficult economic sanctions for human rights abuses will see this and learn the lesson.  You think Iran will give up their nuclear ambitions after seeing how perfectly it worked out for North Korea?  The US has been ignoring the Kims for generations precisely because even having that face to face conversation legitimizes their dictatorship as a legitimate government and a nuclear power on the global stage.  Whatever agreement they come to (or don't) is entirely secondary.  Kim wins just by getting Trump to show up.

Trump gets played wherever he goes.  He must be actively ignoring his diplomatic corps the same way he ignores his intelligence community, because he looks like a dummy every time he goes abroad.

Yes, true, Kim got Trump to travel fifteen hours, just to give him legitimacy.

I honestly canít believe Trump supporters donít see how fucking pathetic this all is.

sequoia

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6219 on: February 28, 2019, 06:40:38 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-begins-one-one-kim-jong-un-tempering-expectations-n977466

HANOI, Vietnam ó No deal.

President Donald Trump and North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un abruptly broke off their nuclear summit here Thursday, canceling a planned signing ceremony.

"Sometimes you have to walk and I think that was one of these times," Trump said at a press conference that was moved forward by almost two hours after the talks collapsed.

-----------

Whoa... interesting... I thought he likes to get cozy with dictators of the world lmao

Well... he does... I have no idea why he walked away. I honestly thought he would cave to Kim without getting anything in return.

On the other hand, he did basically give Kim a shrug and a free pass on torturing and murdering American citizen Otto Warmbier. Hell, even famous GOP toady Rick Santorum is outraged.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/826392/rick-santorum-furious-over-trumps-reprehensible-otto-warmbier-comments

Yep the 180 turn is pretty amazing to see... First how he was agreeing with Putin, now with Kim... I really wonder if these people has something over him... like peeing tape or something...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/28/politics/donald-trump-otto-warmbier-kim-jong-un/index.html

"You are powerful witnesses to a menace that threatens our world, and your strength inspires us all," Trump said, addressing Warmbier's parents, during his 2018 State of the Union address. "Tonight, we pledge to honor Otto's memory with American resolve." He added in that same speech: "We need only look at the depraved character of the North Korean regime to understand the nature of the nuclear threat it could pose to America and our allies."

Fast forward to Thursday in Hanoi, when, at a summit with North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un, Trump said this of Warmbier and North Korea: "He tells me that he didn't know about it and I will take him at his word." Trump added that Kim "felt badly about it. He felt very badly."
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 06:42:56 PM by sequoia »

ysette9

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6220 on: February 28, 2019, 09:56:25 PM »
Perhaps he is just an idiot with the attention span of a gold fish. Perhaps we ascribe too much intent to a man who is more or less fumbling around in the dark?

SpeedReader

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6221 on: February 28, 2019, 11:31:28 PM »
In the Cohen hearing yesterday a Republican congressman actually said, "Liar, liar, pants on fire." A congressman.  In his official capacity.

I'm just embarrassed for America. 

Dabnasty

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6222 on: March 01, 2019, 06:34:09 AM »
In the Cohen hearing yesterday a Republican congressman actually said, "Liar, liar, pants on fire." A congressman.  In his official capacity.

I'm just embarrassed for America.

Not only that, He made a big sign with a picture of Cohen, flames in the background, and the phrase in all caps. Then he awkwardly referenced the sign when accusing Mr. Cohen. It was painful to watch.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 06:36:34 AM by Dabnasty »

caracarn

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6223 on: March 01, 2019, 08:16:13 AM »
OMG.  I avoid the news for a reason, so I miss these types of things and my life is often the better for it.  Once in a while it is worth a laugh to see how President Stupid has made us look stupid.  Now he's infected others with his brand of stupid.  Please make it stop.

sequoia

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6224 on: March 01, 2019, 08:26:38 AM »
OMG.  I avoid the news for a reason, so I miss these types of things and my life is often the better for it.  Once in a while it is worth a laugh to see how President Stupid has made us look stupid.  Now he's infected others with his brand of stupid.  Please make it stop.

Come voting time, we will see how many people who want this stupidity to continue for 4 more years of mess vs people who want it to stop. Sadly, we may have to endure another 4 more years...

wenchsenior

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6225 on: March 01, 2019, 08:28:15 AM »
So...the entire GOP thinks nothing Cohen says can be trusted b/c he's a proven liar. 

But Trump is a proven liar, and they all seemingly believe most of what he says.

Also, Cohen said he had personally seen no evidence of several things that Trump's been suspected or accused of: direct colllusion with the Russians, fathering a kid out of wedlock, hitting Melania Trump, etc. 

Something tells me the GOP will be trumpeting those particular statements as totally trustworthy.

The GOP is a fucking joke right now.

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6226 on: March 01, 2019, 08:58:12 AM »
I don't get the Republican strategy here.

If Cohen is such a horrible crook who could never be trusted . . . what does that say about the quality of judgement of the man who put total faith and trust in him for more than a decade?  Did everyone just forget this part?

FIPurpose

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6227 on: March 01, 2019, 09:10:53 AM »
I don't get the Republican strategy here.

If Cohen is such a horrible crook who could never be trusted . . . what does that say about the quality of judgement of the man who put total faith and trust in him for more than a decade?  Did everyone just forget this part?

That's what I thought the whole time:

So the GOP Reps buys into the premise that the president is a liar and a cheat, but it doesn't matter as long as you can impugn the testimony of his employees as also being a liar? Of course liars and cheats surround themselves with other liars and cheats.

It'd be like the head of crime org getting off because all the people who testified against him used to be a part of a crime org. Well duh.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6228 on: March 01, 2019, 09:27:00 AM »
I don't get the Republican strategy here.

If Cohen is such a horrible crook who could never be trusted . . . what does that say about the quality of judgement of the man who put total faith and trust in him for more than a decade?  Did everyone just forget this part?

Well... Trump supporters are good at cognitive dissonance. And they know that. So, trying to make a logically consistent argument is kind of a waste of time for them, especially when head-spinning hypocrisy works so much better with their base.

partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6229 on: March 01, 2019, 09:33:40 AM »
In the Cohen hearing yesterday a Republican congressman actually said, "Liar, liar, pants on fire." A congressman.  In his official capacity.

I'm just embarrassed for America.

OMG. Next we will hear a Republican congressman say during the testimony "those who smelt it, dealt it".  or, "I'm rubber, you're glue; whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you"
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 10:14:40 AM by partgypsy »

Roadrunner53

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6230 on: March 01, 2019, 09:37:42 AM »
I don't think history will look kindly on the GOP and their allegiance to this President.

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6231 on: March 01, 2019, 10:24:04 AM »
I don't get the Republican strategy here.

If Cohen is such a horrible crook who could never be trusted . . . what does that say about the quality of judgement of the man who put total faith and trust in him for more than a decade?  Did everyone just forget this part?

That's what I thought the whole time:

So the GOP Reps buys into the premise that the president is a liar and a cheat, but it doesn't matter as long as you can impugn the testimony of his employees as also being a liar? Of course liars and cheats surround themselves with other liars and cheats.

It'd be like the head of crime org getting off because all the people who testified against him used to be a part of a crime org. Well duh.

I was thinking the same thing. Especially during the part where they were grilling Cohen about why he would continue to work for such a horrible person. Um yeah, if Cohen is so horrible why would Trump keep him on as his "fixer" for over a decade?!? Idiocy ensues.

rocketpj

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6232 on: March 01, 2019, 10:38:15 AM »
Cohen:

"Given my experience working for Mr. Trump, I fear that if he loses the election in 2020, there will never be a peaceful transition of power."

ncornilsen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6233 on: March 01, 2019, 12:02:23 PM »
I don't get the Republican strategy here.

If Cohen is such a horrible crook who could never be trusted . . . what does that say about the quality of judgement of the man who put total faith and trust in him for more than a decade?  Did everyone just forget this part?

I don't know that Cohen is particularly untrustworthy, but you can make the case that he is a man with huge legal problems who's only currency to bargain with is what dirt he can provide on Trump. I think that, without specific corroborating evidence, his statements should remain suspect.

The republicans COULD have gone with that approach and remained out of cognitive dissonance land, but "LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE" fits on a large sign so much more nicely, I guess.


Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6234 on: March 01, 2019, 12:11:26 PM »
I don't get the Republican strategy here.

If Cohen is such a horrible crook who could never be trusted . . . what does that say about the quality of judgement of the man who put total faith and trust in him for more than a decade?  Did everyone just forget this part?

I don't know that Cohen is particularly untrustworthy, but you can make the case that he is a man with huge legal problems who's only currency to bargain with is what dirt he can provide on Trump. I think that, without specific corroborating evidence, his statements should remain suspect.


The republicans COULD have gone with that approach and remained out of cognitive dissonance land, but "LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE" fits on a large sign so much more nicely, I guess.

True, except: His short prison term of three years depends upon his full cooperation. If he is found to have lied under oath, that term will increase substantially.

At this point, I'd say he has very, very good reasons to tell the truth.

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6235 on: March 01, 2019, 12:20:35 PM »
I don't get the Republican strategy here.

If Cohen is such a horrible crook who could never be trusted . . . what does that say about the quality of judgement of the man who put total faith and trust in him for more than a decade?  Did everyone just forget this part?

I don't know that Cohen is particularly untrustworthy, but you can make the case that he is a man with huge legal problems who's only currency to bargain with is what dirt he can provide on Trump. I think that, without specific corroborating evidence, his statements should remain suspect.


The republicans COULD have gone with that approach and remained out of cognitive dissonance land, but "LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE" fits on a large sign so much more nicely, I guess.

True, except: His short prison term of three years depends upon his full cooperation. If he is found to have lied under oath, that term will increase substantially.

At this point, I'd say he has very, very good reasons to tell the truth.

The other simple truth related to some of the points above, is that if you are looking for first hand witnesses in a criminal enterprise, they are not going to be squeaky clean persons with impeccable records. That is just not how it works. I think that it is appropriate to be skeptical of Cohen. However, he has enough information to be able to provide starting points for investigations. Maybe the president can't/won't be indicted, but if there is fraud or other illicit activity conducted by the Trump organization, then at least the SDNY has an obligation to look into that. I think the most interesting part of the story was the testimony relating to Trump's dishonest statements to banks while attempting to get loans. That element should not be partisan.

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6236 on: March 01, 2019, 12:44:56 PM »
I don't get the Republican strategy here.

If Cohen is such a horrible crook who could never be trusted . . . what does that say about the quality of judgement of the man who put total faith and trust in him for more than a decade?  Did everyone just forget this part?

I don't know that Cohen is particularly untrustworthy, but you can make the case that he is a man with huge legal problems who's only currency to bargain with is what dirt he can provide on Trump. I think that, without specific corroborating evidence, his statements should remain suspect.


The republicans COULD have gone with that approach and remained out of cognitive dissonance land, but "LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE" fits on a large sign so much more nicely, I guess.

True, except: His short prison term of three years depends upon his full cooperation. If he is found to have lied under oath, that term will increase substantially.

At this point, I'd say he has very, very good reasons to tell the truth.

+1 There is no upside for him lying (ie. reduced prison sentence). But there is huge downside.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6237 on: March 01, 2019, 12:47:52 PM »
Maybe the president can't/won't be indicted, but if there is fraud or other illicit activity conducted by the Trump organization, then at least the SDNY has an obligation to look into that.

"If"?  What do you mean "if"?

We already know there is fraud and illicit activity.  Of like ten different types, most of which have already been prosecuted.  E.g. the Trump foundation was dissolved for tax fraud, trump university was sued out of existence for fraud, Trump paid hush money to a porn star, Trump lied on his tax returns, Trump defrauded banks to get loans, etc. etc. etc. 

The fact that entire Trump business empire is rife with fraud and illicit activity shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone at this point, which is why I found Cohen's testimony pretty uneventful.  Yea dude, we already know the guy's a crook.  The only question now is why nobody seems to care, why the republicans in congress are protecting him, and whether or not Americans are content to have a known criminal as their elected leader and symbol of their national virtues.

At this point, ten more criminal convictions by the SDNY or anyone else won't make any difference.  He's already been found guilty of tons of stuff, but he's still president until Congress decides to impeach him.  He could literally be found guilty of murder and still be president, because it just doesn't matter.  He's totally immune to all of it, until after he leaves office.  As long as republicans in the Senate still find it beneficial to keep him in office, it doesn't matter what crimes he commits.

Joshua

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6238 on: March 01, 2019, 12:55:36 PM »
Maybe the president can't/won't be indicted, but if there is fraud or other illicit activity conducted by the Trump organization, then at least the SDNY has an obligation to look into that.

"If"?  What do you mean "if"?

We already know there is fraud and illicit activity.  Of like ten different types, most of which have already been prosecuted.  E.g. the Trump foundation was dissolved for tax fraud, trump university was sued out of existence for fraud, Trump paid hush money to a porn star, Trump lied on his tax returns, Trump defrauded banks to get loans, etc. etc. etc. 

The fact that entire Trump business empire is rife with fraud and illicit activity shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone at this point, which is why I found Cohen's testimony pretty uneventful.  Yea dude, we already know the guy's a crook.  The only question now is why nobody seems to care, why the republicans in congress are protecting him, and whether or not Americans are content to have a known criminal as their elected leader and symbol of their national virtues.

At this point, ten more criminal convictions by the SDNY or anyone else won't make any difference.  He's already been found guilty of tons of stuff, but he's still president until Congress decides to impeach him.  He could literally be found guilty of murder and still be president, because it just doesn't matter.  He's totally immune to all of it, until after he leaves office.  As long as republicans in the Senate still find it beneficial to keep him in office, it doesn't matter what crimes he commits.

Allegations of this magnitude literally apply to many other politicians including Hilary Clinton and others on both sides of the isle. But they are never prosecuted either.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6239 on: March 01, 2019, 01:04:00 PM »
Maybe the president can't/won't be indicted, but if there is fraud or other illicit activity conducted by the Trump organization, then at least the SDNY has an obligation to look into that.

"If"?  What do you mean "if"?

We already know there is fraud and illicit activity.  Of like ten different types, most of which have already been prosecuted.  E.g. the Trump foundation was dissolved for tax fraud, trump university was sued out of existence for fraud, Trump paid hush money to a porn star, Trump lied on his tax returns, Trump defrauded banks to get loans, etc. etc. etc. 

The fact that entire Trump business empire is rife with fraud and illicit activity shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone at this point, which is why I found Cohen's testimony pretty uneventful.  Yea dude, we already know the guy's a crook.  The only question now is why nobody seems to care, why the republicans in congress are protecting him, and whether or not Americans are content to have a known criminal as their elected leader and symbol of their national virtues.

At this point, ten more criminal convictions by the SDNY or anyone else won't make any difference.  He's already been found guilty of tons of stuff, but he's still president until Congress decides to impeach him.  He could literally be found guilty of murder and still be president, because it just doesn't matter.  He's totally immune to all of it, until after he leaves office.  As long as republicans in the Senate still find it beneficial to keep him in office, it doesn't matter what crimes he commits.
DJT may be immune for the time being, but the rest of the Trump administration isn't. Sounds like the CFO will probably be having some awkward conversations following Cohen's public testimony. Yes, the public sphere of opinion is probably not changed by it. As a political stunt it probably just increased divisiveness between the bases. I'm not sure how the middle ground sees it, and that probably depends mostly on if a) they even are tuned in enough to care, and b) where they get their news/information/propaganda.

The meat is really the stuff that wasn't the political bloviating (looking at you Mr. Meadows). The specific questions on valuation and bank submittals isn't unexpected and new, but it is under oath and public.

So yes, Trump's base may allow DJT to get away with murder, or making a mess of foreign affairs. That does not mean that the SDNY will give the Trump org a pass when they have an obvious path to go down. Much more of this has likely been uncovered by Mueller and they are savvy enough to understand that the timing of when those aspects (ie, those beyond their mandate) are handed off may influence Mueller's investigations. I expect that we will likely see multiple lines of legal action concurrently, and not too far after the release of the Mueller report, which may or may not see the light of day.

On the Mueller report: TPM made an interesting point that the GOP has set up a bit of a Catch 22 scenario. DOJ policy is to not indict a sitting president. There is also policy not to release incriminating information about people that have not been indicted. Ergo, no possibility of indictment for the foreseeable future means that the elements of the Mueller report related to DJT may not be released.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6240 on: March 01, 2019, 01:05:27 PM »
Allegations of this magnitude literally apply to many other politicians including Hilary Clinton and others on both sides of the isle. But they are never prosecuted either.

I'm not talking about allegations, I'm talking about convictions.  Yes, Trump made allegations against the Clinton Foundation, but it turns out the Clinton Foundation books are squeaky clean and the Trump foundation was a giant scam, and was investigated, prosecuted, and ultimately dissolved because of it.  What other politician has finances so shady they can't even show us their tax returns?

What other major party-leading politician has been sued for fraud and lost multiple times?  What other major party politician deliberately concealed porn star hush money payments in order to violate campaign finance laws?  These are not allegations, these are some of the things Trump has already been found guilty of, or is currently being investigated or prosecuted for.

There's no whataboutism that applies here.  No other politician in recent history is even close to Trump, on the corruption and fraud scale.  Not even Nixon, and I don't say that lightly.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6241 on: March 01, 2019, 01:06:27 PM »
Maybe the president can't/won't be indicted, but if there is fraud or other illicit activity conducted by the Trump organization, then at least the SDNY has an obligation to look into that.

"If"?  What do you mean "if"?

We already know there is fraud and illicit activity.  Of like ten different types, most of which have already been prosecuted.  E.g. the Trump foundation was dissolved for tax fraud, trump university was sued out of existence for fraud, Trump paid hush money to a porn star, Trump lied on his tax returns, Trump defrauded banks to get loans, etc. etc. etc. 

The fact that entire Trump business empire is rife with fraud and illicit activity shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone at this point, which is why I found Cohen's testimony pretty uneventful.  Yea dude, we already know the guy's a crook.  The only question now is why nobody seems to care, why the republicans in congress are protecting him, and whether or not Americans are content to have a known criminal as their elected leader and symbol of their national virtues.

At this point, ten more criminal convictions by the SDNY or anyone else won't make any difference.  He's already been found guilty of tons of stuff, but he's still president until Congress decides to impeach him.  He could literally be found guilty of murder and still be president, because it just doesn't matter.  He's totally immune to all of it, until after he leaves office.  As long as republicans in the Senate still find it beneficial to keep him in office, it doesn't matter what crimes he commits.

Allegations of this magnitude literally apply to many other politicians including Hilary Clinton and others on both sides of the isle. But they are never prosecuted either.
Except for all of these people:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6242 on: March 01, 2019, 08:42:44 PM »
In the Cohen hearing yesterday a Republican congressman actually said, "Liar, liar, pants on fire." A congressman.  In his official capacity.

I'm just embarrassed for America.

Not only that, He made a big sign with a picture of Cohen, flames in the background, and the phrase in all caps. Then he awkwardly referenced the sign when accusing Mr. Cohen. It was painful to watch.


OMFG.  I heard it on the radio; I had no idea there was a SIGN! 

Johnez

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6243 on: March 01, 2019, 10:22:34 PM »
Can just imagine the staffers at the print store, "yeah uh, I need a 3 foot by 4 foot poster with this image, yeah for the congressman....pause....yes, we're serious, need it tomorrow."

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6244 on: March 02, 2019, 05:53:01 AM »
In the Cohen hearing yesterday a Republican congressman actually said, "Liar, liar, pants on fire." A congressman.  In his official capacity.

I'm just embarrassed for America.

Not only that, He made a big sign with a picture of Cohen, flames in the background, and the phrase in all caps. Then he awkwardly referenced the sign when accusing Mr. Cohen. It was painful to watch.


OMFG.  I heard it on the radio; I had no idea there was a SIGN!

+1 thank you for posting the sign!

I wonder what does this congressman trying to do with this sign? Does he not get an advice from his staff? "Umm sir... that is a very bad idea... it is going to make you look like a fool..." or maybe his staff was like "Yeah lets let him do that...lmao... oh Bill... while you getting that sign made, get some popcorn too..."
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 05:55:20 AM by sequoia »

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6245 on: March 02, 2019, 08:06:26 AM »
So let me add Republican politics up:

The president is great, even if what he does is the top 10 of most stupid things on earth.
A young woman having fun dancing is the end of the world.
A representative behaving like a 6 year old is great politics.


And people really wonder why the Aliens still have not landed on Earth? There is probably a sign on the star maps: Avoid! Here be idiots!

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6246 on: March 02, 2019, 08:19:50 AM »
Yes, Pres. Trump goes golfing more than Obama if you count days.

But it's about the same when you go by strokes.

I just now realized that this was not a serious comment, but rather an insult to Barrack Obama's skill at golfing.

An unfounded one, as if that matters. 

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6247 on: March 02, 2019, 08:37:33 AM »
Yes, Pres. Trump goes golfing more than Obama if you count days.

But it's about the same when you go by strokes.

I just now realized that this was not a serious comment, but rather an insult to Barrack Obama's skill at golfing.

An unfounded one, as if that matters.

Actually Obama is about a 13 handicap, which isnít too bad. Iím sure he could have improved this with his own golf course and deciding to golf over running the country.

Omy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6248 on: March 02, 2019, 09:21:39 AM »
My money would be on Obama in a golf match between the two...as long as somebody else was keeping score. Trump is known to forget to count all of his strokes.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6249 on: March 02, 2019, 09:26:43 AM »
My money would be on Obama in a golf match between the two...as long as somebody else was keeping score. Trump is known to forget to count all of his strokes.

Especially if they had to walk the course. Trump would pass out before the fifth hole.