Author Topic: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...  (Read 583785 times)

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6150 on: February 20, 2019, 09:15:13 AM »
I have my mental list of people who complained about the Clinton/Uranium One deal, and I'll be waiting for those people to express outrage about this transfer of technology to Saudi Arabia.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6151 on: February 20, 2019, 09:26:38 AM »
I have my mental list of people who complained about the Clinton/Uranium One deal, and I'll be waiting for those people to express outrage about this transfer of technology to Saudi Arabia.
God I a has somehow forgotten about the whole Uranium One non-scandal.
Kind of like how Trumpeters brushed of Ivanka's use of a private email server after calling HRC a 'traitor' for doing something eerily similar.


sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6152 on: February 20, 2019, 09:52:49 AM »
Reading the news about Trump's senior staffers trying to personally profit by illegally selling nuclear secrets to the middle east, while terrible, doesn't even raise my eyebrows anymore.  It's like OF COURSE they did.  Is anyone really surprised by this?

ysette9

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6153 on: February 20, 2019, 10:04:10 AM »
Reading the news about Trump's senior staffers trying to personally profit by illegally selling nuclear secrets to the middle east, while terrible, doesn't even raise my eyebrows anymore.  It's like OF COURSE they did.  Is anyone really surprised by this?
Right. My Shock-o-meter has been in the red for so long it isn’t registering anymore.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6154 on: February 20, 2019, 10:17:15 AM »
Reading the news about Trump's senior staffers trying to personally profit by illegally selling nuclear secrets to the middle east, while terrible, doesn't even raise my eyebrows anymore.  It's like OF COURSE they did.  Is anyone really surprised by this?
Surprised?  Sadly no... but I'm left wondering if more people in Trump's orbit won't wind up with criminal convictions because of it.  Thomas Barrack would be a new one, and Kushner's been a point of focus since day 1. Flynn's gone from respected 3-star general to likely incarcerated inmate in two short years.

A better question to me is: what competent person would still want to be in Trump's orbit?  Few leave stronger than when they entered, and the legal peril seems considerable. 

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6155 on: February 20, 2019, 11:24:08 AM »
what competent person would still want to be in Trump's orbit?  Few leave stronger than when they entered, and the legal peril seems considerable.

You're looking at it backwards.  It's not that competent people enter trumpworld and are exposed to legal peril, it's that criminals seek out trumpworld for the really big scores. 

Paul Manafort didn't go to work for the Russians after becoming trump's campaign chair, he was appointed to be trump's campaign chair because he was working for the Russians.  Michael Flynn didn't betray his country because he joined team trump, he joined team trump in order to betray his country.  Cohen isn't a super shady lawyer because he worked for trump, trump hired him years ago because he was always a super shady lawyer.  Konstantin Kilimnik and the Russian GRU officers were always enemies of America, long before they came to work with trump.  Roger Stone has always prided himself on playing fast and loose with the rules in order to win political battles, and he literally told trump to run for president years before he was indicted for working with the GRU and wikileaks on trump's behalf.  Sam Patten, Richard Pinedo, George Papadopoulos,  Alex van der Zwaan, Rick Gates, these people have all pled guilty to various crimes linking trump's campaign to Russia by exploiting existing contacts with Russia.  It's not like they were squeaky clean patriots before trump came along and put them all on his payroll, somehow corrupting them.

In fact, the best example of someone who blindly and stupidly entered into Trump's orbit without any pre-existing criminal or Russian background that we know of might be Mike Pence.  He's totally embraced all of this business, but doesn't appear to have been hired because he was working with the Russians.  He was hired to win over the votes of evangelicals, and has only coincidentally gotten himself wrapped up in the criminal charges, it seems.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 12:12:50 PM by sol »

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6156 on: February 20, 2019, 12:08:56 PM »
I predicted for a while that Rick Perry was going to come out of this thing looking really good.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6157 on: February 20, 2019, 12:59:25 PM »
And the Future of a Full Trump presidency includes a lot of pollution:

Scientist says some pollution is good for you — a disputed claim Trump’s EPA has embraced
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-secret-science-20190219-story.html

 A researcher who has suggested that exposure to toxic chemicals can be good for humans is helping to shape Environmental Protection Agency policies.
In early 2018, a deputy assistant administrator in the EPA, Clint Woods, reached out to a Massachusetts toxicologist best known for pushing a public health standard suggesting that low levels of toxic chemicals and radiation are good for people.
“I wanted to check to see if you might have some time in the next couple of days for a quick call to discuss a couple items …,” Woods wrote to Ed Calabrese.
Less than two weeks later, Calabrese’s suggestions on how the EPA should assess toxic chemicals and radiation were introduced, nearly word for word, in the U.S. government’s official journal, the Federal Register.
“This is a major big time victory,” Calabrese wrote in an email to Steve Milloy, a former coal and tobacco lobbyist who runs a website, junkscience.com, that seeks to discredit mainstream climate science.
“Yes. It is YUGE!” wrote Milloy, in response.
It was a glorious moment for Calabrese, who had been snubbed for decades by mainstream public health scientists because of his controversial research and theories.
It also signified the major shift the EPA has taken under the Trump administration. More than any before it, this White House has actively sought out advice from industry lobbyists and the scientists they commission in setting pollution rules.
Denouncing the Obama-era EPA as an agency beholden to environmental extremists, the administration has not only dismissed mainstream science but embraced widely discredited alternatives that critics say are not consistent with the agency’s focus on improving public and environmental health.
Calabrese’s role illustrates a different side of this shift: the potential removal of longstanding public health practices and the incorporation of industry-backed and disputed science into federal environmental policy.
Calabrese spent decades advancing his ideas, facing skepticism and criticism from peers in the toxicology community while winning funding from companies whose bottom lines conformed with his views.
He says most of the pushback he receives comes from left-of-center toxicologists who see him as “the devil incarnate” for accepting industry funding and challenging their ideology. He maintains his science is solid and will be vindicated in time.
“These environmental regulatory people are very closed-minded,” he said. They won’t reconsider their standards, and see that some of the agents they call harmful “actually can induce adaptive responses,” Calabrese said.
This view — that pollution and radiation can be beneficial — has many experts worried. The fact that such a position may become EPA policy, they say, portends a future in which corporate desires outweigh public and environmental health.
“Industry has been pushing for this for a long time,” said David Michaels, former assistant secretary of labor for the Occupational Safety and Health Administration who’s a professor of environmental and occupational health at George Washington University. “Not just the chemical industry, but the radiation and tobacco industries too.”
If the EPA ultimately adopts Calabrese’s proposed new regulations, researchers say it could change decades of standards and guidelines on clean air, water and toxic waste. It could also fundamentally alter the way the government assesses new chemicals and pesticides entering the marketplace.
“This is industry’s holy grail,” said Michaels.



partgypsy

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6158 on: February 20, 2019, 01:01:38 PM »
I predicted for a while that Rick Perry was going to come out of this thing looking really good.

blessed are the ignorant.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6159 on: February 20, 2019, 01:03:53 PM »
what competent person would still want to be in Trump's orbit?  Few leave stronger than when they entered, and the legal peril seems considerable.

You're looking at it backwards.  It's not that competent people enter trumpworld and are exposed to legal peril, it's that criminals seek out trumpworld for the really big scores. 

Yes, all good examples of unethical cockroaches drawn to Trump in hopes of a big score. But that's not everyone that's gotten tarnished.  Think about Jim Mattis, HR McMaster, John Kelly, Sessions, Tillerson and others.  That's not to say that Tillerson or Sessions are people I agreed with pre-Trump, but both left secure jobs to be humiliated by Trump and have their professional reputation tarnished.  The first three (Mattis, McMaster & Kelly) were all supremely respected in military circles, but now are more associated with this dumpster fire than their 3+ decades in uniform.  Granted I believe all three took the job because they believed in serving their country, but .. well.. Trump doesn't.  THeir replacements don't have the defense of not knowing what it would really be like.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6160 on: February 20, 2019, 06:43:54 PM »
So... is every member of the Democrats putting their hand up to run for President? Could they not, like, discuss among themselves and put a few people up? I'm not seeing how having dozens of candidates could help.

I mean, they'll lose anyway. I'm just wondering how they think this approach helps them.

FIPurpose

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6161 on: February 20, 2019, 07:10:11 PM »
So... is every member of the Democrats putting their hand up to run for President? Could they not, like, discuss among themselves and put a few people up? I'm not seeing how having dozens of candidates could help.

I mean, they'll lose anyway. I'm just wondering how they think this approach helps them.

The GOP had 17 contenders in 2016. There are about 10 now. Before the first debate in June, I'd expect to see 6 more join, and about 6 of them to drop out.  The Democrats will have to do something similar to GOP of splitting the debate between the front runners and the rest so that there will be two debates of about 6 people each.

I believe that history has shown that larger groups allow the eventual presidential candidate a greater amount of practice in heated debate and contention. This is a typical number of candidates, and is in line with past years. The primaries continuing to drive earlier and earlier probably will cause more people to dip their toe in the water early on.

accolay

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6162 on: February 20, 2019, 08:03:42 PM »
A more apropos example would be Timothy McVeigh citing his outrage over the Ruby Ridge incident as his motivation for the Oklahoma City bombing.

More better example?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/20/politics/coast-guard-mass-killing-hit-list/index.html

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6163 on: February 21, 2019, 05:52:35 AM »
So... is every member of the Democrats putting their hand up to run for President? Could they not, like, discuss among themselves and put a few people up? I'm not seeing how having dozens of candidates could help.

I mean, they'll lose anyway. I'm just wondering how they think this approach helps them.
Well, in our democracy anyone who is eligible can run for President, and anyone who wants to run under the Democratic party can so long as they meet the party's intentionally low bar. That's how Bernie Sanders has been allowed to run for the nominee despite not being a Democrat.  It's a feature, not a bug.

Having this many candidates is not at all uncommon.  While people like to cite the 17 GOP candidates that made it to the debates, there were in fact over 200 at the start of the 2016 primaries.  As FIPurpose noted, having a diverse field early on can be good for the candidates, as at this stage they are largely going around practicing their stump speeches in front of small groups and toning their message.  It also is a pretty decent way for the party to flesh out which issues have traction with voters.  In a world where DJT loves to attack any opponents from the bully pulpit and twitterverse having an open field gives all a form of cover.

Regardless of whether there are 4 or 24 viable candidates, the field will rapidly be narrowed to 1 or 2 by March 3rd, 2020, which is when most people will actually start paying attention.

Just Joe

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6164 on: February 21, 2019, 07:37:59 AM »
Large number of candidates also tells us how much money is being tossed into the election process. Its hard to run for office for free.

Personally I'd like to see folks put away their checkbooks and have some fact based discussions instead of Trump style flame wars in 29 cities a week.

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6165 on: February 21, 2019, 08:06:58 AM »
Large number of candidates also tells us how much money is being tossed into the election process. Its hard to run for office for free.

Personally I'd like to see folks put away their checkbooks and have some fact based discussions instead of Trump style flame wars in 29 cities a week.
I think it says more about the length of our election cycle than anything.  Much ado about nothing is made of initial fundraising totals, as a few million$ will go so far and the big donations won't start pouring in until 2020.

I hope challengers can spend more time on issues, but Trump has shown a penchant for race-baiting, trolling and insulting his opponents, and it is incredibly difficult not to take the bait. HRC released one of the most detailed policy documents from a candidate ever, but that race boiled down to angry chants and playground insults (on both sides).  The merits of her policies - good or bad - were barely discussed while her health, stamina, marriage and mental faculties were constantly analyzed.

Just Joe

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6166 on: February 22, 2019, 08:06:31 AM »
The merits of her policies - good or bad - were barely discussed while her health, stamina, marriage and mental faculties were constantly analyzed.

Wasn't that rich coming from Trump - the man of many affairs and marriages, questionable intellect, short work days and weekends at his resort on the taxpayer dollars... Kind of like the email server controversy. Hillary's crime was jail worthy we are frequently told while members of his team and his own family have made the same poor choices - but we aren't supposed to notice them.

Actually maybe we are supposed to notice them and see how they are seemingly immune from prosecution. "All Hail Emperor Trump!"

Anyhow, heard some of this show this morn: https://www.npr.org/2019/02/21/696593231/how-2-conspiracy-theorists-shaped-trumps-worldview-and-why-they-matter-to-muelle

Dabnasty

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6167 on: February 22, 2019, 08:59:50 AM »
The merits of her policies - good or bad - were barely discussed while her health, stamina, marriage and mental faculties were constantly analyzed.

Wasn't that rich coming from Trump - the man of many affairs and marriages, questionable intellect, short work days and weekends at his resort on the taxpayer dollars... Kind of like the email server controversy. Hillary's crime was jail worthy we are frequently told while members of his team and his own family have made the same poor choices - but we aren't supposed to notice them.

Actually maybe we are supposed to notice them and see how they are seemingly immune from prosecution. "All Hail Emperor Trump!"

Anyhow, heard some of this show this morn: https://www.npr.org/2019/02/21/696593231/how-2-conspiracy-theorists-shaped-trumps-worldview-and-why-they-matter-to-muelle

That was an interesting interview. It's hard to say anything is surprising anymore, but the way individuals tied to Trump keep popping up as you track the stories backwards is pretty wild. Joe Arpaio went to Kenya with Jerome Corsi to find evidence that Obama was born there. Really?

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6168 on: February 22, 2019, 09:09:10 AM »
Whenever I learn more about the lives of people like Roger Stone I'm always left wondering how they can live with themselves.  There doesn't seem to be any shred of morality in him. The only guiding principles of men like him seem to be 'destroy your opponents using any means available' and 'sucker whoever you can for your own enrichment".

At no point do they seem concerned about whether they should do something, whether their mark deserves such treatment or if there's any truth to it. Stone's proudly described himself as a 'dirty trickster' and I get the feeling he'd burn everything around him to the ground if it meant he'd be the richest man among a valley of the destitute.

caracarn

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6169 on: February 22, 2019, 09:35:17 AM »
Whenever I learn more about the lives of people like Roger Stone I'm always left wondering how they can live with themselves.  There doesn't seem to be any shred of morality in him. The only guiding principles of men like him seem to be 'destroy your opponents using any means available' and 'sucker whoever you can for your own enrichment".

At no point do they seem concerned about whether they should do something, whether their mark deserves such treatment or if there's any truth to it. Stone's proudly described himself as a 'dirty trickster' and I get the feeling he'd burn everything around him to the ground if it meant he'd be the richest man among a valley of the destitute.
Read Martha Stout "The Sociopath Next Door".  1 in 25 people is like this.  What than means is we all know many of them.

LennStar

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6170 on: February 23, 2019, 01:39:29 AM »
Reading the news about Trump's senior staffers trying to personally profit by illegally selling nuclear secrets to the middle east, while terrible, doesn't even raise my eyebrows anymore.  It's like OF COURSE they did.  Is anyone really surprised by this?
That is one big part of the real problem. Things that would have created an outrage are only a shrug now. Everyone has only so much time and energy to react to things, and normal people already use up most of this for other stuff. It's the trolling strategy working.

Because if you can't have a discussion, you can't hear and judge facts. You can only believe what someone(tm) tells you in a few words, and it this is a scapegoat, you will be happy. And you will act on it, even if you find out it's wrong, because if you do not continue to act on this, you have been totally stupid all the time, and most people cannot bear that thought. (Psychological) Sunken cost fallacy.

And this is how democracy crushes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

btw. Back before the election I didn't want to write about Trump. It looked too stupid. Maybe I was the stupid there... but that is what I wrote after his election, and I fully mean it today, too.
https://steemit.com/politics/@LennStar/to-the-us-people-those-who-don-t-learn-from-history
« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 01:50:21 AM by LennStar »

Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6171 on: February 24, 2019, 11:58:08 PM »
Munted lnk, Lenn.

LennStar

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6172 on: February 25, 2019, 03:45:41 AM »
Munted lnk, Lenn.
??? I don't understand that phrase at all.

Oh, I guess you mean my last link is broken.
Just copy+paste it into the browser, I guess the forum does not like the  @ in a link.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6173 on: February 25, 2019, 04:53:14 PM »
Oh, another "Trump is Hitler" article.


No, he's not. He's his own flavour of awful. As Graeber said, he's a classic corporatist.

Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6174 on: February 25, 2019, 05:01:38 PM »
Oh, another "Trump is Hitler" article.


No, he's not. He's his own flavour of awful. As Graeber said, he's a classic corporatist.

Well. With a generous dash of mob flunkie, and a soupcon of Russian shill.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6175 on: February 25, 2019, 05:20:32 PM »
Well, when it costs you a billion dollars to make a serious run at the Presidency, you are going to get organised crime involved directly or indirectly, that's inevitable.

I don't really see how pulling out of the INF treaty and similar things make them Russian shills. But of course, I am not practiced at the convoluted conspiracy theory reasoning Americans are so fond of, where evidence of malpractice is evidence of it, and absence of evidence is Just What They Would Do To Trick Us. I'm old enough to remember that when the Soviet Union collapsed there were Americans saying it might all be a trick.

Obama was not born in Kenya, and Trump is not a Russian agent. He's a homegrown danger to his country, be proud, claim him for your own.


Kris

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6176 on: February 25, 2019, 06:32:22 PM »
Well, when it costs you a billion dollars to make a serious run at the Presidency, you are going to get organised crime involved directly or indirectly, that's inevitable.

I don't really see how pulling out of the INF treaty and similar things make them Russian shills. But of course, I am not practiced at the convoluted conspiracy theory reasoning Americans are so fond of, where evidence of malpractice is evidence of it, and absence of evidence is Just What They Would Do To Trick Us. I'm old enough to remember that when the Soviet Union collapsed there were Americans saying it might all be a trick.

Obama was not born in Kenya, and Trump is not a Russian agent. He's a homegrown danger to his country, be proud, claim him for your own.

Honestly, Kyle. Learn the difference between agent and shill.

LennStar

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6177 on: February 26, 2019, 12:14:23 AM »
Oh, another "Trump is Hitler" article.


No, he's not. He's his own flavour of awful. As Graeber said, he's a classic corporatist.

No, not Trump is Hitler (Trump is a lot dumber for example, and can't hold a good speech), but a "what happens is very similar to what happened ~1930 in Germany" article.
I could of course have added tons of then-newspaper articles and compare to todays, or whatever you want. But that would have made a book.

Glenstache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6178 on: February 26, 2019, 03:14:08 PM »
It would appear that while Trump is on the road he is farming his stupid-tweeting out to Matt Gaetz (R-FL).
See: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/gop-rep-to-michael-cohen-do-your-wife-father-in-law-know-about-your-girlfriends

The tweet reads:
Quote
Hey @MichaelCohen212 - Do your wife & father-in-law know about your girlfriends? Maybe tonight would be a good time for that chat. I wonder if she’ll remain faithful when you’re in prison. She’s about to learn a lot...

Not surprisingly, given that Cohen is in the middle of potentially damaging testimony on the POTUS, this is conisidered by some to be witness tampering. When asked about that point, Gaetz responded that it was "witness testing." Let's just hope that phrase does not become as common as "alternative facts" has.

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6179 on: February 27, 2019, 05:40:41 AM »
It would appear that while Trump is on the road he is farming his stupid-tweeting out to Matt Gaetz (R-FL).
See: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/gop-rep-to-michael-cohen-do-your-wife-father-in-law-know-about-your-girlfriends

The tweet reads:
Quote
Hey @MichaelCohen212 - Do your wife & father-in-law know about your girlfriends? Maybe tonight would be a good time for that chat. I wonder if she’ll remain faithful when you’re in prison. She’s about to learn a lot...

Not surprisingly, given that Cohen is in the middle of potentially damaging testimony on the POTUS, this is conisidered by some to be witness tampering. When asked about that point, Gaetz responded that it was "witness testing." Let's just hope that phrase does not become as common as "alternative facts" has.

It's classic witness intimidation which is in fact illegal. But like many things the Republicans do these days, it will get hand waved away. Cohen is getting lambasted by many Republicans, certainly in preparation for what lies ahead. They know it won't be good. I am looking forward to it.

Trump: "You'll have to ask my attorney, Michael Cohen"
Congress: "Okay"

megaschnauzer

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6180 on: February 27, 2019, 06:33:25 AM »
It would appear that while Trump is on the road he is farming his stupid-tweeting out to Matt Gaetz (R-FL).
See: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/gop-rep-to-michael-cohen-do-your-wife-father-in-law-know-about-your-girlfriends

The tweet reads:
Quote
Hey @MichaelCohen212 - Do your wife & father-in-law know about your girlfriends? Maybe tonight would be a good time for that chat. I wonder if she’ll remain faithful when you’re in prison. She’s about to learn a lot...

Not surprisingly, given that Cohen is in the middle of potentially damaging testimony on the POTUS, this is conisidered by some to be witness tampering. When asked about that point, Gaetz responded that it was "witness testing." Let's just hope that phrase does not become as common as "alternative facts" has.

From the Pensacola News Journal's Andy Marlette: "...the hearing was called to order and Maybelline Matt can be seen glaring out at the exasperated audience members with the distinct smirk of a doughy dachshund that just pilfered a Reese’s peanut butter cup from its owner's purse during a car ride to the groomer to get its anal glands expressed."

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6181 on: February 27, 2019, 06:47:09 AM »
Trump: "You'll have to ask my attorney, Michael Cohen"
Congress: "Okay"

We elected a reality-TV star and now we've got the reality-TV presidential show. 

Anyone else feel like Cohen's testimony is akin to the 'confessional' segments of reality-TV where contestants say all sorts of nasty things and pour our their emotions right before being thrust back into a cat fight with the very people s/he was complaining about?

MasterStache

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6182 on: February 27, 2019, 08:26:13 AM »
Just caught a bit of the opening statement. It was like the Clinton, Dossier whataboutsim greatest hits. The only things missing were emails, Benghazi, etc. What a shitshow from those trying like hell to discredit Cohen and protect Trump.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 08:31:49 AM by MasterStache »

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6183 on: February 27, 2019, 01:18:22 PM »
Those of you who are old enough to remember Watergate will remember that John Dean was a meticulous, credible witness; I cannot see how Cohen could seem so.

And no one believed Dean until the tapes of the Oval Office conversations showed up.

I don't think Cohen could do anything short of produce tapes of trump using the "C-" word to harm Trump at this point.

talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6184 on: February 27, 2019, 01:21:36 PM »
Note: in my previous comment, the word I meant was "collusion"

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6185 on: February 27, 2019, 01:42:34 PM »
Note: in my previous comment, the word I meant was "collusion"
... I was wondering.


The value to the investigation with Cohen isn't so much about what he says but about what documentation and corroborating accounts he can bring to light. The cheques, signed by Trump and by Jr. are pretty powerful evidence that i) there were hush-money payments made to Stormy Daniels and ii) it was done in such a manner to prevent them from being easily discovered.  That's a campaign finance violation, and shows intent.

Everything else... like I said it's the word of one liar against another.  However, remember that Mueller and SDNY have boxes and GB or files from Cohen, plus to limited cooperation of other individuals. To me its' just another reminder that the special council's office knows far more than we do, and might have additional documents to back up these statements. 

...and that's why I tend to actually believe Cohen's testimony here; he's going to jail, and the special council has his entire office.  If he lies again under oath his 3 year sentence will rapidly grow - see Manafort.


talltexan

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6186 on: February 27, 2019, 02:37:58 PM »
Perhaps I'm cynical, but I think there are a lot of Trump-supporters who will respond to a tape-recording of our President saying, "Michael, I want you to set up a meeting between Roger [Stone] and someone at Wikileaks so they can conspire about how to use the stolen DNC files..." with

See! He didn't say "collude".

JLee

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6187 on: February 27, 2019, 02:54:43 PM »
Perhaps I'm cynical, but I think there are a lot of Trump-supporters who will respond to a tape-recording of our President saying, "Michael, I want you to set up a meeting between Roger [Stone] and someone at Wikileaks so they can conspire about how to use the stolen DNC files..." with

See! He didn't say "collude".

I expect you're absolutely right. And if he did say "collude", they would say "well it's not a crime to collude."

GuitarStv

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6188 on: February 27, 2019, 07:07:20 PM »
I feel like if the c-word was 'compassion' Trump would lose more of his base than with 'collude'.


 . . . and that's made me very depressed now.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6189 on: February 28, 2019, 08:42:18 AM »
So one thing that is driving me bonkers today about the current state of Trump supporters is that, despite all verifiable evidence, the working class still support this lazy guy.  He is the least hard-working guy I can imagine, and he has one of the most important jobs in the world.  If I were financially strapped and working long hours, the last thing I would want to see is a President hanging out with his North Korean bud in Vietnam, ultimately getting nothing done (not that there were high expectations), and most likely headed off to Maralago to decompress from whatever...  Maybe it was fun for a year or so to have a President that could start chants and Tweet nonsense like you hear in your own neighborhood, but isn't it getting annoying at this point that you are paying for his 4 year vacation and self-indulgence?

And yet, AND YET, I still hear people getting excited for his NEXT 4 YEARS!  Like WTaF

ncornilsen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6190 on: February 28, 2019, 08:58:12 AM »
So one thing that is driving me bonkers today about the current state of Trump supporters is that, despite all verifiable evidence, the working class still support this lazy guy.  He is the least hard-working guy I can imagine, and he has one of the most important jobs in the world.  If I were financially strapped and working long hours, the last thing I would want to see is a President hanging out with his North Korean bud in Vietnam, ultimately getting nothing done (not that there were high expectations), and most likely headed off to Maralago to decompress from whatever...  Maybe it was fun for a year or so to have a President that could start chants and Tweet nonsense like you hear in your own neighborhood, but isn't it getting annoying at this point that you are paying for his 4 year vacation and self-indulgence?

And yet, AND YET, I still hear people getting excited for his NEXT 4 YEARS!  Like WTaF

Yes, it has gotten old.

I keep seeing a meme posted by my trump supporting facebook friends that "82% of Trump supports will vote 4 him again!!! 1 like=1 prayer 1share=10votes!!!11!".  Since only 82% of the people who SUPPORT trump will vote for him, it seems like a solid 18% of his 'supports' are sick of his shit too!


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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6191 on: February 28, 2019, 09:19:25 AM »
if 82% of Trump supporters vote for him again he's toast, as he won by the slimmest of margins and he's done little to expand his support (ie getting those who voted for HRC to support him now).

I get that being president is a demanding job where the public often isn't privy to what's being done behind the scenes, but DJT spent years criticizing Obama's golfing hobby only to exceed his frequency by a wide margin.  THat and he's left vacant a ton of positions, severely curtailing what the executive branch can actually accomplish.  Ironically, roughly the same amount of taxpayer money is being spent, so we're paying the same for less output, all with a heavy dose of hypocrisy.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6192 on: February 28, 2019, 09:24:08 AM »
DJT spent years criticizing Obama's golfing hobby only to exceed his frequency by a wide margin.

Trump has SIGNIFICANTLY reduced his golf course time since installing a virtual reality golf simulator in the white house (no, not joking).  Before that he played golf almost twice as much as Obama did, now he's down to about the same amount that Obama played, but for all we know he's spending 100% of his "executive time" playing video game golf instead.

So... progress?

nereo

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6193 on: February 28, 2019, 09:26:57 AM »
source? 

ncornilsen

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6194 on: February 28, 2019, 09:30:47 AM »
DJT spent years criticizing Obama's golfing hobby only to exceed his frequency by a wide margin.

Trump has SIGNIFICANTLY reduced his golf course time since installing a virtual reality golf simulator in the white house (no, not joking).  Before that he played golf almost twice as much as Obama did, now he's down to about the same amount that Obama played, but for all we know he's spending 100% of his "executive time" playing video game golf instead.

So... progress?

Do you like what happens when he's working productively?

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sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6196 on: February 28, 2019, 10:00:07 AM »
source?

For which part?  The VR golf simulator? 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/13/white-house-golf-simulator/2859107002/
or
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-trump-installed-a-room-sized-golf-simulator-at-white-house/2019/02/13/ed3f6d5c-2e45-11e9-813a-0ab2f17e305b_story.html
or
https://www.si.com/golf/2019/02/13/president-trump-golf-simulator-white-house-installation
or other places if you google.

Trump also didn't play golf (publicly, that we know about) for about two months during the border wall shutdown debacle, which seriously dropped his average.  Before that, he was playing roughly twice per week.  The timing of the installation of the VR golf system appears to coincide with the timing of the shutdown and his absence from physical golf courses, so I think everyone is just sort of assuming that he's playing VR golf at least as often as he was previously playing real world golf. 

He's been playing golf twice a week or more for the past 20 years.  Does anyone really believe he just magically stopped playing all golf in January, and that the simultaneous installation of a VR golf game in his private white house quarters, where he spends all of his "executive time" each day, is just a coincidence?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 10:07:22 AM by sol »

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6197 on: February 28, 2019, 10:14:04 AM »
Sounds like a witch-hunt Sol.

sol

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6198 on: February 28, 2019, 10:24:08 AM »
Sounds like a witch-hunt Sol.

Except I don't think anyone really cares.  He's an old man who likes golf, that's not exactly uncommon.  Now he likes video games, that's also not uncommon. 

I'd rather he spend his day in a fancy golf simulator than tweeting, to be honest.  Nereo only brought up his golf habit to highlight that he spends less time working than his predecessor, as if that were a bad thing in his case.  I'm fine with it, because every time he gets a bug up his ass about something we end up with a tax cut for the rich, or more pro-Russia posturing, or a government shutdown. 

Please, Donald, play more golf and worry less about politics.

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Re: So Let's Speculate about the Future of a Full Trump Presidency...
« Reply #6199 on: February 28, 2019, 11:08:42 AM »
Sounds like a witch-hunt Sol.

Except I don't think anyone really cares.  He's an old man who likes golf, that's not exactly uncommon.  Now he likes video games, that's also not uncommon. 

I'd rather he spend his day in a fancy golf simulator than tweeting, to be honest.  Nereo only brought up his golf habit to highlight that he spends less time working than his predecessor, as if that were a bad thing in his case.  I'm fine with it, because every time he gets a bug up his ass about something we end up with a tax cut for the rich, or more pro-Russia posturing, or a government shutdown. 

Please, Donald, play more golf and worry less about politics.

That's not really why I brought it up.  I'm fine with presidents golfing, or bowling or clearing brush or whatever it is they like to do as time allows.
My post was to point out the hypocrisy of Trump having been so critical of Obama's golfing, only to do so and more when he took office. My objection is the double-standard, not the golfing.